>"All punks should be apolitical or right wing."

Google John Lydon's plane touches ground

>>70380733
The Ramones were upper middle class Long Island (might as well have been Jew) trash. Don't fall for their lies.

>>70380733
Idk, but I love this fucking song and it's lyrics
>https://youtu.be/KRwUlLahpiI

>>70380769
only joey was a jew i believe. johnny was half-ironically a nazi sympathizer

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>Joey Ramone said a thing so it must be true

Weren't the MC5 members of the White Panthers?

>>70380783
Johnny was redpilled asf bih

>>70380733
Johnny Ramone was a bit of an oddity in this sense. I think it was the fact that he was among the first "punks", so there wasn't the strong leftist political precedent that developed later on.

Also remember that in the very early days of punk, it was more about teenage rebellion against parents, or rebellion against the usual rules of society, rather than rebellion against the state/capitalism.

>inb4 pasta

>>70380805
kind of agree

>>70380733
I don't know, but Johnny was right. Modern punks are fucking crybabies.

>>70380733
Johnny was right wing, joey was left wing. It, among other things, caused tension.

>All punks should be apolitical or should agree with me

Really activates my almonds

Rock music has been infused with commiekike propaganda since the beginning. Rock was born during the era of the cold war controlled opposition shit, so it's not very surprising.

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I'm a part of what some people call the "alt-right" and it feels punk as fuck. It feels like an actual counter culture, or rebellion against the PC culture that dominates American colleges.

>>70380926
i feel the same way

>"woah cool a right wing punk"
>try reading the wisdom of johnny ramone

and into the trash he goes

>>70380926
it gets me every time

>>70380926
congratulations, you've fallen ploy to one of the greatest political marketing schemes of all time

far left wing will always be the only real punk

>>70380733
>liberal beliefs


that's steadily changing

we're going FULL COMMUNIST.

>>70380733
instead of raging against society they are raging against their parents

>>70380926
reminder there is nothing wrong with the alt right

>>70380926
It dominates colleges, but colleges are contained cultures, and they aren't all of america. You're just playing into what rich old white dudes in the rest of america want.

That's not very punk at all.

>>70380976
>muh safe spaces
>W-we're real punks! I swear!

>>70380995
okay im not out here to defend the alt right BUT

Rich old white dudes are generally like Jeb Bush... they are free market, , pro-immigration, low taxes, pro-intervention (Syria, Iraq, etc), they are anti-Russia, etc. These are things that they alt-right tends to disagree with pretty significantly (except taxes which they don't really have a solid stance on).

>>70380976
lol

>>70380926
been doing this thing since I was a child, it was this revolutionary thing my parents put me on back in then 90s. It's this whole concept of just, y'know, being a good person.

PC culture is retarded. Culture breathes through humour and being able to laugh at itself.

But people like you are even worse. What do you even have to rebel against bro? Go fucking hang out with some ugly brown dude who mildly creeps you out. Ask him light up the hookah, play some hindi songs. These are good people you racist fucking asshole. People that love to laugh and play music and party.

I don't know what desolate state you in live in there in 'murica, but wherever it is, get the fuck out. Go travel. See some shit. Please.

>>70380805
Modern punk is a rebellion against capitalism in the same way occupy wall street was an occupation of wall street.

>>70381297
where can I unsubscribe from your sententious blog?

the only good actual punk band was the Angry Samoans

The Ramones entire shtick was being dummies, why would anyone care about their political opinions

>>70380733
>implying the Ramones weren't oversensitive, sheltered consumerist weaklings
inb4 music defeners

>>70381297
lmao you have no idea what that guy is like and you've created this character of him in your mind, all because of the ridiculous term "alt-right"

by the way your idea of cultural tourism as a way to connect with people is cringeworthy and naive, you aren't going to magically love black people just because you listen to hip-hop and play pick-up basketball

>>70380733
i mean, punk's supposed to be rebellious, right? it's not super fresh to have the same political/social views as your great grandparents

punk music after 1980 is fucking pointless. the whole "scene" is a bunch of privileged white children who use their "counterculture status" as a way to look better than their fellow consumerists.

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>>70380756

>>70381536
>it's not super fresh to have the same political/social views as your great grandparents

this is how the mind of the modern millennial leftist works, folks

christ

>>70381581
You seem worked up

>>70380926
>having incredibly square, outdated, and boring views on social issues
>rebellious

lol fucker read some books and spend less time on internet /pol/ echo chambers. try to understand the arc of history.

also realizing now that i've read this before and it's probably a pasta. my point still stands

>>70381600
>worrying about whether your political views are considered "square" or not

(this is not a good way to form your worldview)

>>70380733
After reading this thread, what the fuck is punk?

>>70381581
i'm not saying that anyone should base their politics on trendiness or freshness, lol-- just arguing that right wing politics are not punk because anything punk should constitute a real break with the past.

>>70381556
>not knowing enough bands to know how many PoC are making excellent punk right now

>>70381676
>just arguing that right wing politics are not punk because anything punk should constitute a real break with the past.

Okay but lets say that social progressivism continues to gain traction- gay marriage has widespread acceptance, trans people are treated more sympathetically, the immigration system is changed, etc., will it be appropriately "punk" to rebel against those things 20 years from now?

>>70380805

why do punks and indie, and almost every genre, have such a problem with capitalism anyway?

>>70381642
not how i form my worldview by any means whatsoever-- just hilarious to me that alt-righters try to repackage bullshit ideas that have been outdated for 80 years as some kind of hot new rebellious trend.

like, i'd disagree with the shit either way, but you guys would be at least a bit less annoying if you admitted that there's nothing alt about the alt right.

>>70381727
because it's more provocative and easy to say "fuck capitalism" than "capitalism has many problems, but overall it is likely a better system than X"

>>70381715
shit, i hope that's something I get to fleetingly consider for fifteen seconds in 2042 and then return to my beautiful utopian life

>>70381779
>bullshit ideas that have been outdated for 80 years
what ideas are you referring to?

and of course you realize many leftist ideas have been around for quite a long time too?

>that there's nothing alt about the alt right.

If that were true then establishment Republican politicians like Jeb Bush would have no problem with the alt-right, but that's obviously not the case, is it?

I mean, if the alt-right is full of neo-nazis, are you suggesting that being a neo-nazi is somehow mainstream?

>>70381835
Lol there's a lot more to "utopia" than social progressivism m8, we're talking about issues that affect a very small portion of the population here. Not that they should be ignored, but topics like income inequality affect a much wider range of the population.

>>70380926
>Alt right
>Punk

I browse /pol/ for shits and giggles and they're the most fucking unpunk people in the world. They're essentially the new version of the shitty grandpa who hates fun.

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>>70380926
>>70380976
>>70381003
>>70380988
left and right are both dumb as fuck, so is abstaining from politics. proper punk is anti-political
see; motorhead
even though their music itself wasn't necessarily pure punk (though elements of it existed in their style) they were very much a part of the scene and perfected the attitude

>>70380733
>the ramones
>punk

oh kek

>>70381727
because it ruins art

>>70381887
>what ideas are you referring to?
well i guess it's not like the alt right is entirely monolithic so it's hard to generalize without people trying to tell me i'm wrong but uh generally disproven racial science, simplistic views of the gender binary, believing in the american dream/bootstraps bullshit/trying to cut welfare/hating the poor in general except when they're useful as a voting bloc to gain power, uh yeah.

>leftist ideas are old too
nah yeah don't get me wrong i love, like, marx and shit and his ideas are 1860s as hell. difference is that his beliefs have never been a dominant ideology in society unless you count marxism-leninism which i don't count but i wouldn't blame you if you had to.

>establishment republicans blah blah
like, yeah, sure, i guess? but desu they have so much ideological overlap, it's just that the alt right swears a bit more and uses memes vs Jeb/Reagan/who-the-fuck-ever mainstream republican and 99.9% of mainstream Dems, who will be very nice and articulate as they fuck over poor people and marginalized groups.

>more to utopia than social issues
yeah, i was being overly simplistic in that response just because that's what the post i was replying to gave me to work with. i honestly believe that capitalism/racism/misogyny/ableism/classism/etc are just one giant fucked-up system to the point where you can't really effectively attack one part without attacking the others too.

ANYWAYS-- all this is to say that i really think that punk is a musical aesthetic, not a set of politics.... but since you can't really analyze any aesthetic outside of its social and political context anyways, then rightwing punk is stupid as hell and very rarely any fun to listen to. desu i hardly listen to any punk at all these days
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFjLmqAZ_0o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7mRG88KPbA

>>70381934
motorhead sucks

>>70382119
FUCK i forgot that /mu/ filters the abbreviation for "to be honest" to desu...please disregard that

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>>70382119
you fucking suck

>>70382133
nice dubs bruv. i honestly actually haven't listened to a ton of motorhead beyond their most famous songs. what album of theirs should i check out?

The Ramones literally have a song mocking Ronald Reagan. Johnny is just a moron. Punk has always been anti-establishment. That's the whole point.

>>70382119
>but desu they have so much ideological overlap, it's just that the alt right swears a bit more and uses memes vs Jeb/Reagan/who-the-fuck-ever mainstream republican

this is just not true

They disagree on immigration, Russia, interventionist military action, and free trade, these are not minor quibbles.

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>>70382161
theyve never really had an actual bad album, but by far their best material comes from the classic lineup
>Self Titled
severely underrated, they were just getting their footing but it's still a great standout album. probably the blues-iest cohesive work they put out
>Overkill
the band's sound cleaned up a bit, neat little transition venture from the bluesy stuff before to their punkier stuff
>Bomber
imo their best classic lineup album, now it's all punk and thrash
>Ace of Spades
everyone knows this shit
a bit of the punk element is lost in favor of a more solidified metal sound, but it's still most certainly there

>>70380983
pretty ironic considering punk is largely about expression of the individual, which communism largely revokes

>>70382265
forgot Iron Fist, mostly due to the fact that i haven't listened to it as extensively as the other 4
still a great album though

>>70380733
NO TRUMP NO KKK NO FASCIST USA

Should be

NO JEWS, NO BLACKS, NO SJW HACKS

>>70382216
you're right, i was being too simplistic. those are not minor quibbles-- but still, being anti-immigration and in favor of protectionism aren't exactly fancy new ideas. there's been plenty of bitching about illegal immigrants and overseas manufacturing ruining america's economy from conservative media as long as i can remember. and i think that if/when DT is ready to invade or bomb some country for the interests of the ruling class, whether or not he dresses the aggression up as a humanitarian move like obama and bush did, i'm sure nobody on the alt-right will be too upset about it.

i'll admit the whole russia thing is probably throwing my grandparents for a loop but none of this other shit is anything they haven't been blathering about for years.

>>70382265
thanks for the reccs, Bomber sounds most up my alley so I'll check it out ASAP. sorry for needlessly shitting on motorhead lol i just think they have kinda a corny-ass aesthetic sometimes

>>70382375
dude its all cool, i was messing about the 'fuck you' bit too. i don't think it'd be healthy for anybody to take music that seriously.

it's impossible to deny how corny the aesthetic is, but goddamn if they weren't one of the hardest or "realest" hard rock bands around

>>70382375
>being anti-immigration and in favor of protectionism aren't exactly fancy new ideas

No, but they do run contrary to what establishment politicians on both sides of the aisle support right now (and in the past couple decades).

Anyway, I think this discussion has pretty much run it's course, at least for me. Good stuff overall. I like discussing politics with someone who won't just throw out "nazi!" when confronted by someone whose ideology is somewhere to the right of Hillary Clinton.

Let's come together in appreciation of The Fall

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sk1TP5EkLS4

>>70382285
I get that it's hard to think otherwise when basically every major "communist" government has been at best a failure and at worst an atrocity, but like, communism as it should really work would be way better for individuality than capitalism. every previous communist government has been basically built around Lenin's ideas, and he was pretty wrong--kind of thought that he could just take society by force and then drill revolutionary consciousness into the minds of the people, which is obviously not great for individuality.

but true communism would be radically democratic, way more so than any western democracy ever has been, well-rounded education would be accessible for everyone, we'd have enough free time to make art in our daily lives, art/music/literature could function outside of the need to be commodities and earn a profit...

>>70382465
damn yeah i do love the fall. and yeah for sure, i weirdly find that i can have more productive conversations about politics on /mu/ than you'd expect. idk, the alt right frustrates the shit out of me because it feels like a movement of young people who can tell that something's wrong in the world but are unwilling or unable to see quite see beyond dominant ideologies (obviously pushing towards the edges of those ideologies, but i don't think truly reaching past). but then again, i'm a cliched 20-something marxist so i'm sure plenty of people think i'm batshit crazy

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>>70382808
>tfw we are both political extremists

W-woah

someday soon i'll shitpost with you again i'm sure

>>70382808
>radically democratic
See also sending colleague for re-education to gain promotion

>>70382465
No thank you. I'll have a beer with him but I'll not listen to his music

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>>70380926
there's nothing punk about uptight, ultraconservative views on social issues
>aut-rightists unironically think they're part of some cutting-edge counterculture

The only correct political ideology is the one with room for doubt. Doubt is the only constant in life and in the way we relate to eachother, not certainty.
Which is why everytime I do one of those political tests I'm always a centrist.
That's the only acceptable option. You can't seriously claim to know more when it's just too damn uncertain.
Fuck off extremists, you ruined this board.

>>70382966
>sending colleague for re-education to gain promotion

huh? can you uh elaborate this a bit more here? is this something you believe would happen under communism?

>>70382808
>communism as it should really work would be way better for individuality than capitalism

In theory, however, every political system works– the issue lies in that we don't live in a perfect world with perfect people. As a result, I would champion, as a pragmatic approach, a moderate implementation of capitalism.

>>70382992
i mean... agreed that one should always be willing to move on their beliefs when presented with solid opposing evidence and arguments. i'm sure as hell not positive that i'm correct in all of my political beliefs, but i have formed them as well as i can based on what i've experienced, what the people around me have experienced, and what i've learned about the broader world through taking in as much journalism, sociology, economics, theory, history, literature, and art as i can. and i'm always trying to take in more stuff and talk to more people so of course my views are always evolving.

that being said, i agree it's lazy to claim absolute certainty about the world but it's just as lazy to constantly throw up your hands and say "ah, well, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle!" sometimes when two sides are having an argument, one side is just right and the other is just wrong.

>>70383074
that's not unfair. still, no social/economic system has really lasted forever up to this point, and i agree with the marxist analysis that the final crisis of capitalism will come and some new system will rise up to replace it. i'm not smart enough to know exactly how that will happen or what our society will look like -- i can only hope that whatever comes next will be more egalitarian and free than capitalism, just as capitalism has been more egalitarian and free than feudalism was

can we all agree commiefornia ruined punk

>>70383257

babyboomers ruined punk by creating it

everything sucks

>>70383296
>what is gen x

>>70383322
Gen X was born 1965-1985, they were children or not yet born in the late 70s

>>70380733
When punk first started (or rather when the Ramones first started, because this is pretty specific to them and not, say, The Talking Heads or Blondie) it was mainly a reaction against 70's-era album rock and the left-wing hippy culture that had taken over in the late sixties.

However, The Ramones never invented punk, their fans did, and, after punk infamously "died" in 1979 and split into new wave, post-punk, goth, and hardcore, the hardcore fans weren't like the Ramones. The hardcore scene was made up of a lot of messed-up, angry kids. You had kids who were homeless, addicts, gang members; these weren't necessarily just a bunch of suburban kids from nice homes trying to reinvent cool like the Ramones, for many of these kids just staying alive was an act of rebellion. So naturally, they lashed out at just about everything, Reagan and Thatcher most of all but you also had skin heads and so forth.

Music has to change to fit the scene that supports it, and this happened to punk again in the 90's when it became cool again and the surviving hardcore fans got drowned out by the teenagers from good homes.

>>70380733
Ramones weren't even punk.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoiG0jirT6w

>>70380733
nice source faggot

>>70380733
We really need to stop this "Ramones played punk music" meme. They were a freaking pop rock band.

>>70383074
People are pretty malleable though, you'll always have people who want to do acts of violence or whatever, but the argument that human nature means that capitalism is the only option is a bias from having lived under capitalism.

>>70383634
>(you)

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>>70380926
>people actually responding to this bait not realizing this was posted like 2 weeks ago

>>70383655
Yes and no. I agree with you regarding the bias, I will be the first to admit this, however to the best of my knowledge noone has provided a system that allows for more individual liberties than Pure Capitalism™. I was rebutting his statements on communism, and I generally agree with his sentiment here >>70383175, and I maintain that a pragmatic approach to capitalism is the best system we have currently.

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>>70380733
>Sucking the cock of a 70 year old manchild who had everything handed to him by his daddy is somehow punk

Kill yourself.

>>70380733
Stop posting this same thread faggot. Punk has and always will be left, we've established this in every one of your threads.

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Seriously who cares anymore?
Is punk right wing like The Ramones?
Left wing like The Dead Kennedys?
Did Green Day rip off from MDC when they proclaimed "No Trump No KKK No Fascist U.S.A.!"?

Seriously! Punk is out of date no matter what anybody's political leanings are.

How about creating something new that your parents or grand parents DIDN'T listen to!

KYS each and every one of you fucking losers!

Pic is daily reminder of what punk is today! Deal with it!

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>>70382808
lol look at this idealist faggot

>>70384954
>the only walls we build are walls of death
damn...

Lol the world is pretty fucked up in the head but you americans are way more fucked

Or maybe you're all high schoolers and I'm wasting my time here

>>70381727
bcuz they poor

>>70384967
> Punk has and always will be left
unironically ironically neck yourself
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbXyD17V4fg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cP8dUp9ZYv0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZ25-atLxH0

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>>70380926
literally true but liberals dont want to swallow it

>>70387367
sorry, my bad.
GOOD punk has and always will be left

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>>70387592
>punk in 2017 is litearlly "WAHH MY CANDIDATE DIDNT WIN"
""""""punk music"""""""

>>70387592
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjGDnX4VZBA

>>70387613
No punk in 2017 is "oh shit, people believed that joke, I guess i'm counter-cultural now."

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>>70380733
>anti-fa punks

punk is probably the worst sub-genre of rock

>prove me wrong

>>70387878
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1knh-_SYrfQ

>>70384954
>Implying you'd want to go to war against Russia with your filthy "hardcore" thrash friends
>Implying you'd be okay getting taxed as a middle class citizen
>implying

itt idiots saying the Ramones weren't punk, just seriously l o fuckin l the Ramones weren't punk, and the Model T wasn't a car

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwJnnf1Ogcw