This is essentially free jazz for people who can't into

No, Free Jazz is Trout Mask Replica for people who need to feel like more of an elitist arsehole

Free Jazz is trash in general but I do enjoy TMR's interpretation of it. This takes more talent than jazz music

>>69908211
>>69908251
>projecting
>projecting
>projecting
>projecting

In my personal experience its more like blues for a person who likes prog.

>>69908251
Sure free jazz has some shitty avant teen/rym-core fans, but nothing compared to the elitism that comes with TMR. Not to mention at least free jazz fans actually listen to more than one free jazz album. Beefy guys only listen to Safe As Milk and Trout Mask Replica.

>>69908319
Free jazz is literally just random chords strung together. TMR is actually music that takes talent>>69908319

>>69908285
>can't into jazz
>being this pleb
kek

>>69908305
Nothing makes it particularly blues though outside the instruments used.

>>69908385
>free jazz
>being on a rule like "random chords stuck together"
>implying there are even chords

Also TMR doesn't take much talent. Take two different simple single string based guitar riffs, and put them together, one in each channel, and you got TMR.

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make something on the level of trout mask replica

you seem to have a pretty utilitarian view of music

>>69908415
the singer who tries his best to imitate howlin wolf (and succeeds) makes it pretty bluesy too

>>69908299
This

That was only one influence of the music on that album. It's more like atonal blues rock. Plus free jazz is almost exclusively improvisational by nature, while almost every note on that TMR was composed. He only truly channels free jazz in his horn solos.

Also, I seriously doubt free jazz is a difficult step to make for anyone who enjoys TMR. Sure, a lot of good free jazz musicians were academically trained or simply more technically advanced, which is an advantage, but it doesn't intrinsically make their music better. The proof of the pudding is in the eating, not the label on the container.

>It's another thread where the 13 year olds who browse this board shit on an album they'll regret shitting on in 7 years

Come on boys. If anything is going to make music more accessible, it's not going to be Beefheart's personality. At least get your arguments straight on this one

>>69908442
nah, Beefheart controlled that shit like a madman, everything was planned.

can i get some recommendations to get into free jazz?

It's as close to Delta Blues as it is to Free Jazz. It's a rock record, though.

>>69908442
>Also TMR doesn't take much talent. Take two different simple single string based guitar riffs, and put them together, one in each channel, and you got TMR.
I guess that's why they practiced 12 hours a day. Not to mention that John French, the drummer, had to transcribe Don's piano improvisations for every instrument on the album. Oh, and by the way, please tell me how many pop bands have polyrhytmic drumming? Surely, there are a lot of them, since there was no talent involved in making this album and everyone could do just the same.

>>69908319

honestly, if you cant see the musical progression between safe as milk and trout mask, you are musically illiterate.

>>69909703

except to make free jazz you have to know bepop, so not anyone can make it.

saying free jazz is exclusively improv is like saying jazz is improv.

>>69908211
Fuck off retard

>>69909902
Start with Ornette Coleman's ''A Shape of Jazz to Come''. It's more avant-garde jazz than free jazz and I think it's a good starting point. Keep this in mind while listening to the album:
>In the background there was everything you could imagine that was wealthy – all in her background – but she was so sad. And I said, 'Oh my goodness. I understand this feeling. I have not experienced this wealth, but I understand the feeling.' I went home and wrote 'Lonely Woman'... I related the condition to myself, wrote this song, and ever since it has grown and grown and grown.
As you can see, song titles describe themes and emotions of the songs. This is an interesting read:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shape_of_Jazz_to_Come

>>69910164
thanks anon ill check it out

>>69910010
That's partly what I meant by academically trained. I was acknowledging that.

Also I think we have different conceptions of free jazz. I see a lot of overlap between free jazz and pure free improvisation. I would categorize more heavily composed stuff like Ornette or Eric Dolphy as avant-garde, or even post bop. On the whole though, straight ahead jazz is highly improvisational too. The whole overarching format of bebop is often little more than a single page head with improvisation over changes (and although the chords are fixed, they are open to various voicings, as well as substitutions for more advanced players, meaning the changes also have a deep element of improvisation)

I love reading non-musical plebs use vague non-musical descriptors trying to explain why this album is good and failing. It really outs this board for the utterly pretentious shitfest that it is.

>>69910331
Why don't you do something to make this board better and explain why this album is good to the best of your ability?

>>69908211
Jesus why do I still browse this board. Like, I know this is probably a bait thread, but Jesus Christ just listen to whatever you want to listen to.

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>>69908211
>"le whacky man" gimmick

Top kek anon, you just made my day

>>69908211
it's not free jazz

it's a rock album

>>69910349
It's not good, it's a pile of shit. It sounds awful, it was made by people who did too much acid and lost touch with reality. It sucks. There's nothing bluesey or jazzy about it, it's the musical equivalent to a seizure.

>>69910354
You're welcome in my thread >>69910086

>>69910381
Great arguments...

>>69910331
>claims to out TMR's defenders on the basis of their lack of musical vocabulary
>proceeds to critique said defenders using no words belonging to the lexicon of musical analysis other than "musical"

It really outs you as the utterly pretentious shitfest that you are.

>>69910420
We'll try this, tell me what's good about it. Good is a positive aspect of music. It needs to have good aspects to be good, and I can't think of literally any.

>>69910434
I wasn't trying to explain why it's bad, you're projecting.

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>>69910464
Here's my explanation I've posted here earlier:
>There are certainly some unpleasant and maybe out of place songs (Hair Pie: Bake 1), I agree. But there are also some memorable and enjoyable songs that represent the nature of the album perfectly - Moonlight on Vermont, Pachuco Cadaver, Ella Guru, Frownland. Their intention was to deconstruct Delta blues and blues rock to their roots (just the sound, just the attitude of it) and introduce avant-garde, jazz, free jazz and experimental motifs. There's polyrhytmic drumming, which is an integral part of free jazz, then there are slide guitar licks and straight up blues licks. Captain's voice might be off putting and harsh on this album, but he's a great blues singer, which is definitely showcased on his less critically and slightly more commercial albums (Unconditionally guaranteed, Bluejeans & Moonbeams). If you're familiar with Howlin' Wolf, Captain's voice is Howlin' Wolf x10.
>Try listening to his first album - Safe as Milk. It's a great blues rock album and although it's an indication of things to come, it's still accessible and is one of the best in his discography. I understand that it's really hard to appreciate this album and similar albums if you're not a musican. That's not to say that you need to be a musican in order to enjoy and appreciate music. And of course, you don't have to like every single album you've heard. Polyrhytmic drumming is common in free jazz, but not in rock and blues, so that's why the rhythm may sound off to you. Polyrhytms are two separate rhythms played at the same time - which is impressive from a technical standpoint and impressive in the context of time in which the album was made.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyrhythm
There are examples of how they're used and by whom. It's an interesting read.

>>69910723
This is what you guys don't get.

A. Jazz and blues have a distinct base structure and style that his album does not have. He is not playing blues scales, he's not really using scales at all. It's basically musical gibberish.

Ever wonder why most people hear this and are instantly repulsed? It's because believe it or not, music has vague rules that need to be followed in order for something to sound pleasurable to your ear, vague rules that separate music from nonsensical noise.

They're called scales, keys and time signatures.

This album nearly completely ignores that and what a fucking surprise, it sounds like abrasive noise. The dude who composed the guitar did not know how to compose music, he tabbed it out on the piano haphazardly and the guitarist(s) just played it note for note.

Wow, it came out sounding like shit. Truly a mystery and a surprise.

PS: Polyrhythm sounds nice doesn't it? Too bad it doesn't mean anything special on its own. Having polyrhythms is not difficult, you can achieve it by just sucking and not trying to keep your instruments in sync with eachother.

Of course you don't realize that keeping perfect rhythm with someone is actually something that most musicians have to practice, try at and perfect over an extended period of time. Having two guitarists not being in sync is literally easier than being in step with eachother.

>>69910723
What I'm telling you, is that I could get my musician friends, drop a bunch of acid, play total shit nonsense because we're too fucked up, and suck fat cocks at playing with eachother, record it, and your comment would apply just as much.

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>ITT fags that have never listened to Ornette Coleman, Pharoah Sanders, Cecil Taylor or Sun Ra

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how is it free jazz if every fucking part of it was meticulously dictated and played according to the artists vision

>>69911045
I don't know man it's crazy, usually the people on this board know so much about music and how it works

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>>69911045
/thread.
Ornette Coleman's free jazz was mostly freeform playing, that was the whole point, freeform playing without the baggage of fixed harmony and tempo.

Threads over.

ITT: Anime fags trying to pretend they know anything about jazz

>>69908385
>Free jazz is literally just random chords strung together.
t. rock fan who thinks they understand other musical traditions

I reccomend that anyone who doesn't listen to much jazz and wants to into free jazz should just cut out the middleman and listen to free improv instead.
It'll sound about the same, give you more hipster cred and jazz fans get to look at less avant-teens memeing good jazz albums.