>"Jazz is the last refuge of the untalented. Jazz musicians

Who said that?

you actually expect said jazz musicians to agree with you?

Actually applies to ambient/drone/noise/vaporwave more now really

>>69768827
lol did Steve Coogan say that?
Jazz musicians are more talented than musicians of any other genre because jazz musicians since the 40's have just been striving for academic legitimacy, so they make 'objectively good' music.
For the average person it's definitely hard as fuck to listen to

>>69768827
It means that Jazz has become an art in masturbatory exhibitionism.
It's no longer about the music, but about stroking the ego.
Therefore it is no longer art.

>>69768843
Somebody with a persecution complex who doesn't enjoy jazz

>>69768870
lol what the fuck

>>69768843
The fictionalised version of Tony Wilson in 24 Hour Party People, though Wilson himself might well have said words to that effect as well

>>69768849
Yes. The honest ones, anyway...

>>69768827

people still make jazz question mark

Maybe you're not listening to the right jazz....
I may know someone you should try out....

>>69768827
SOunds pretty poseur and elitist to me and false desu

>>69768893
Trust me. I've played a lot of jazz.

>>69768981
How is disliking Jazz the elitist position?

If jazz musicians had talent, they would be classical musicians

>>69769004
>how is disliking something based on the notion that they're untalented an elitist position

>>69769009
Composers maybe.
The average jazz musician is far more capable than the average classical musician

>>69769038
Just because untalented musicians can hide in jazz, doesn't mean every jazz musician is untalented.
Did we read the same quote?

>>69769087
>explicitly says "jazz musicians"
>but i know they only mean some of them

Also it's untrue anyway, jazz is one of the dumbest places to hide if you're untalented

>>69768843
alan partridge

>Jazz serves a cultural function in the music scene. It is a signifier for musical "adulthood." To embrace jazz is to don a kind of graduation cap, signifying a broadening of tastes outside "mere" rock music. This ostentatious display of "sophistication" is an insult, and I find the graduation cappers transparent and tedious. Certainly there must be interesting music one could call "jazz." There must be. I've never heard it, but I grant that it is out there somewhere.

>Jazz has a non-musical parallel: Christiania, the "free" zone in Copenhagen. In Christiania, like in jazz, there is no law. People are left to their own inventions to create and act as they see fit. In Jazz, the musicians are allowed to improvise over and beside structural elements that may themselves be extemporaneous. Sounds good, doesn't it? Freedom -- sounds good.

>The reality is much bleaker. Christiania is a squalid, trashy string of alleys with rag-and-bone men selling drugs, tie-dye and wretched food. Granted Total Freedom, and this is what they've chosen to do with it, sell hash and lentil soup? Jazz is similar. The results are so far beneath the conception that there is no English word for the dissappointment one feels when forced to confront it. Granted Total Freedom, you've chosen to play II V I and blow a goddamn trill on the saxophone? Only by willfully ignoring its failings can one pretend to appreciate it as an idiom and don the cap.

>>69768827
this applies to jazz fans more than anything. They cultivate the image of suave maturity that comes with ensuring everyone knows you're a hip individualist

this effect is magnified as jazz continues its decades-old slide into irrelevancy, and the amount of hipsters claiming to be fans (without knowing shitworth of tracks) climbs faster and faster

>>69769785
Christiana is a really chill place.
Fuck this quote.

>>69768986
Name ONE (1) Jazz

>>69768827
>Jazz musicians enjoy themselves more than anyone listening to them does
this is certainly true, but you absolutely not call them untalented.

>>69769785
>>69770433
yeah Christiania is dope. Albini just doesn't like fun.

>>69768827
>Jazz musicians enjoy themselves more than anyone listening to them does
If the audience is enjoying the music more than you are, aren't you basically selling out? Shouldn't the artist derive more pleasure from the art than anyone?

>>69769785
>that guy who thinks all jazz is free jazz

>>69769785
>the guy who's made a living producing amateur songwriting with no music theory whatsoever hates jazz
hmm...