This is the greatest album of 1991 for sure, and the best album

>>69673916
I prefer Laughing Stock. Also, two women and two men in a band is an uncomfortable dynamic. One woman is more funny.

>>69673916
Who else vastly prefers Kevin's vocals to Bilinda?

>>69673981
I enjoy Kevin's vocals more on Loveless, but on m b v and Isn't Anything I prefer Blinda's.

>>69673981
My biggest complaint about M B V is that Kevin doesn't sing enough.

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This is the greatest album of 1994 for sure, and the best album of the 90s too while I am at it. It changed guitar music, and was so innovative it practically killed a genre. The sounds on this thing are just incredible, and Armstrong himself has said there are not many overdubs or guitar tracks layered over each other. He has also stated that there are not many effects on the guitar tracks. The fact that Green Day were able to capture sounds like the ones found on this record are incredible. A common complaint is that the songs are too simple, or the vocals are terrible. Vocals are simply another instrument, and they perfectly match the instrumental timbres. And the simple song structures are what make this album so fucking addicting. They are insanely catchy pop songs (mostly) that are given a sonic treatment equivalent to 2 beers. I love this album.

>>69673916
>This is the greatest album of 1991 for sure
But Yerself is Steam was released in 1991 so the rest of your post is invalid

>>69673964
Good contender definitely.
>>69674355
Contrarian.
>>69673981
I do too, not to say Bilinda is bad.

Doesn't anybody care about my analysis?

This album is one of the greatest albums of all time. Try listenting to it with an insane stero sytem and subwoofer. Also be high at the same time. It's fucking insane

>>69674318
its a good album
no fucking way its a a top 10 album of the 90s though

>>69675467
i did this on acid

>>69674302
bingo

>>69673916
jesus and mary chain were there first

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No

>>69675478
please dude

>>69673916
Agreed. It's my favorite album for sure.

>>69673964
Actually, since Deb is lesbian and not all feminine, it makes things even more interesting. She didn't perform bass on the album, so this isn't a realistic argument anyhow, unless we're talking about MBV live.

>>69673981
Hard choice, but I know for a fact that Kevin picked the right songs to sing on. She Found Now is great.
Many people don't realize that Kevin did the vocals for When You Sleep. They were pitched up and pitched down. Makes perfect sense, after hearing how breathy and dream like they sound.

>>69676250
Their 4 chord songs don't quite compare to MBV though. Don't get me wrong, I love Psychocandy.

They were technically around first, but MBV played plenty of noisy pop before Psychocandy was released, so I doubt JAMC shaped MBV as much as people think, but they did influence them. Mainly just not to follow what JAMC was doing at the time...

>>69673916
How'd hearing this for the first time go? You should have a more rational opinion in about half an hour or so

>>69675444
people on this board are incapable of discussion i'm afraid, all you will get are one sentence "i like/dislike thing" posts

>>69675444
Your analysis is shit. A nearly 30 year old album that nobody cared about when it came out didn't change guitar music. A drop in the bucket and nothing in more.

>>69676335
Not op, but for me, I didn't like it the first time I skipped through it, other than the track Sometimes. I then began to like When You Sleep, and eventually forced myself to listen to the whole album with an open mind. I enjoyed it a bit more. The catchy parts brought me back, and I've listened to it dozens of times now.

>>69676389
Hah, good one. Even if that were true, it influenced other artists who were bigger hits, like Smashing Pumpkins, and they sure as hell influenced people after their peak.

>>69676429
But that's the thing. It didn't change guitar music for forever. It had an impact for less than 10 years. And no bandcamp artists don't count.

Spiderland, Laughing Stock, and Metal Vortex are superior 1991 albums.

TVU, Jesus And Mary Chain, 80s alt rock/dream pop did it first, just didn't get as popular.

The kind of weird minimalistic studio trickery used to achieve the sounds on it is quite a fantastic achievement for sure, but beyond that the actual compositions themselves are pretty basic pop songs. You gonna tell me that if you take an...idk...Lady Gaga album or something, add a layer of static/feedback, shift some of the sounds a bit, and it turns into a 10/10 GOAT?

The vocals are rightfully lambasted because they are within the same area of timbre/frequency that the guitars/static are. With better done vocals in terms of their placement, the pitch movements involved, and rhythm, they could've only helped make the music actually feel more layered and warped.

The regression in what the rhythm section does in this album compared to their pre-Loveless stuff (which would have actual percussion bits and a cooler variety of basslines) is even more baffling. Sure the dub aspects of those wouldn't maybe fit as well conventionally, but nothing on the album as conventionally mixed and the variety in drums/bass would only lead to again, a more layered and warped sound.

For me basically, it's the actual songwriting that stops this album from being 10/10 GOAT tier. Beyond the interesting experiments, many Beatles tracks had a pretty unconventional complex approach to songwriting despite still sounding nice and poppy. Beyond being mad innovative, a track like Sunday Morning by TVU would have the balls to have more than one going melody at a time. Beyond the synthesis of many styles, Radiohead would be willing to often completely change song structure in the middle of a track. Loveless has none of this type of stuff. The day someone figures out how to do production like it, Loveless will stop being special.

>>69677029
>TVU, Jesus And Mary Chain, 80s alt rock/dream pop did it first

Totally different though. That's almost as ridiculous as saying Big Black was a noise band, so Merzbow's work is redundant.

You keep mentioning "warped" but Kevin didn't want that. He wanted it to be dry and upfront. He created his vision. He would've mixed the album in full mono if he could have. He wasn't trying to create a noisy version of Cocteau Twins.

>The day someone figures out how to do production like it

People *can* do it. Kevin has talked about how he produced the album. I've even attempted at getting the sound by following every step Kevin had mentioned about the recording of To Here Knows When, and I definitely got an unmistakable MBV sound. I even found the exact BBC earthquake sound effect he used.
In the end, it didn't compare to the original, and I re-did the project as my own deviating cover.

It isn't the songwriting as much as it is the concept and Kevin's approach. The final product has something I haven't seen anyone match, even though I've heard a handful of excellent bands that clearly tried.

You could add to the music, but these "improvements" you talk about would take away from what the album already is, and ruin it for many people who already love it, and see no improvement.
It's subjective. As far as I'm concerned, nobody is going to match or beat MBV at their own game.

>>69677029
>Laughing Stock
lmao get that post rock trash out of here
Also, the VU did not do it first. they did noise first but they did not do layerings of distortion or walls of noise
comes to show you don't know shit. also wtf is metal vortex?

>>69677531
>they did not do walls of noise
I'll give you layerings, TVU weren't into that, but no walls of noise? have you listened to Sister Ray lately? the fucking climax of Heroin?

>>69677584
you are actually right
thank you good sir

>>69677470
>Totally different though. That's almost as ridiculous as saying Big Black was a noise band, so Merzbow's work is redundant.
Nope. The original thing OP said was that this changed guitar music. No it didn't. These guys I mentioned did it all first and had a bigger influence on that "indie" laid back sound.

>You keep mentioning "warped" but Kevin didn't want that.
What's your definition of warped? The entire album is composed of warped pop songs in that they are pop tracks using guitars/bass/drum/vocals/sampler, through production turned into these kinetic experiences where the music is just being bent around. Maybe dry, too but certainly not upfront because of how much of an "obscuring" effect the production has on the album.

>People *can* do it
Certainly don't hear it in other shoegaze. It's usually just the usual "buy 10000 guitar pedals" rather than what's going on in Loveless.

>In the end, it didn't compare to the original, and I re-did the project as my own deviating cover.
You also didn't have a lot of money/time to spend nor a fuck huge team of record engineers like Shields did.

>You could add to the music, but these "improvements" you talk about would take away from what the album already is, and ruin it for many people who already love it, and see no improvement.
That's because you're looking at it as a revision of the original album rather than what the original itself could've been. All I am saying is that if it had the depth in sheer composition of that held by say...OK Computer, Daydream Nation, etc. then it would have gotten more overall love than even OK Computer from everyone. Instead, if you actually read reviews and thoughts from people when the album itself came out, it's usually in the similar vein of what I am talking about (great release, but weak songwriting.)

>It's subjective. As far as I'm concerned, nobody is going to match or beat MBV at their own game.
Then why even make this topic?

>>69677531
>calls Laughing Stock post-rock trash
>thinks there was actual layering going on in Loveless and not just sampling noise
>Doesn't know TVU did Heroin or Sister Ray
Jesus Christ you're next level stupid. Mental Vortex is an album by the band Coroner.

>>69677657
>didn't change guitar music
>These guys did it first and had a bigger influence on that sound

I don't see Loveless as contributing to the same elements of the "indie" sound though. The "laid back" indie elements of Loveless aren't what made it a huge ground-breaking influence on guitar music. It's the guitar sound and the heavily layered distortion from Loveless that inspired later indie/shoegaze bands.

>>69677755
>guitar sound
>distortion
So...Sister Ray from TVU?

>>69677771
jesus christ TVU did not invent all guitar music with distortion get off it

>>69677771
>Sister Ray from TVU
MBV did it differently. A lot more production work/studio fuckery went into it, less aggressive and more layered and complex sound. And the main distorted instrument in that song isn't even a guitar ffs, it's Cale plugging his organ into a guitar amp

>>69677782
I never said they did. The wall of noise achieved through a distorted guitar thing that you're crediting MBV for was definitely them first though.

>>69677787
That has nothing to do with a guitar though. All that's achieved through a sampler and production tricks. The initial dispute was to the claim they changed "guitar music".

>>69677798
nah, the "wall of noise" aspects of TVU and MBV are very different. MBV couldn't have done what they did without TVU laying the groundwork first, but the influence in later indie music is much more MBV or TVU-filtered-through-MBV than TVU directly.

>>69677844
>has nothing to do with a guitar
it has everything to do with a guitar, that's the primary instrument they used to make the sounds that they modified with production tricks. Sticking to that initial claim, I'd say they changed guitar music by using guitars to create a "wall of noise" sound in a way that hadn't been done before and influenced many later artists.

>>69677777

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This is the greatest album of 1996 for sure, and the best album of the 90s too while I am at it. It changed guitar music, and was so innovative it practically killed a genre. The sounds on this thing are just incredible, and Nowell himself has said there are not many overdubs or guitar tracks layered over each other. He has also stated that there are not many effects on the guitar tracks. The fact that Sublime were able to capture sounds like the ones found on this record are incredible. A common complaint is that the songs are too simple, or the vocals are terrible. Vocals are simply another instrument, and they perfectly match the instrumental timbres. And the simple song structures are what make this album so fucking addicting. They are insanely catchy pop songs (mostly) that are given a reggae treatment equivalent to 2 marijuanas. I love this album.

>>69677863
They sample audio feedback through the album. Audio feedback can be made through plugged in guitars, but they can also be made through microphones, speakers, etc. Production skills, sampling ability do not pertain to a guitar. That's like saying Brian Eno changed guitar music forever because of his production credits on everything from Fripp to Bowie to Talking Heads.

>>69677657
Why not just listen to Radiohead if that's what you want?

If the only point you have left to make is the fact that Loveless didn't change guitar music significantly, yes, you're correct. They didn't impact it to a point that you hear walls of screaming noise on the radio. While they did influence artists, they didn't start a massive revolution.

>>69677844
>All that's achieved through a sampler and production tricks

They did use samplers, to sample guitar feedback, which makes the flute like synth sound, as well as vocals, however, it is mainly guitar into an SPX-90 on the early reflections effect, on the reverse setting.
I have this unit, and that it is exactly what it is that he used in To Here Knows When, Blown A Wish, and others. A good portion of the guitar tracks actually have no reverb or delay at all. They're just distorted heavily, and he uses the glide technique.

>>69677922
As I said above, the guitar feedback samples are just the synth flute sounding effects. They just add to the album. Its a minor detail.

Who cares if it has good vocals / good songwritings / influenced music, this album has an unique atmosphere that make you feel the most amazing feeling you can imagine.

Best album of all time in my opinion

>>69677959
So the guitar is still just doing what it has been doing since the late 60s? (plug into shit for effects that aren't all that original) Again it's all production tricks and sampling (ex. using the BBC effect in replacement of a bass.)

There's a reason Loveless is often compared to ambient/electronic music, because its big moves happen more in those realms than they do of traditional guitar music.

>>69678004
>unique atmosphere
TVU
Whole lot of 60s psych bands
Les Rallizes Denudes
Every 80s indie band ever
Every 90s indie band ever
Every modern indie band ever

All have the same laid back lazy feel to them

>Lovelessers finally exposed that their favorite album is a piece of shit without its stupid gimmick
About time this place finally achieves true patriciandom.

>>69676250
idiot

>>69673916
Greatest album of 1991? Not while Nevermind and Achtung Baby still exist.

>>69673916
>so innovative it practically killed a genre.

I hate when people say this, they blame the lack of creativity in other musicians to compete on innovators.

>>69673916
It's not the greatest album of the 90s.
It's the greatest album.

Threads like these show that /mu/ is full of jaded kiddies.

>>69678393
>It's not the greatest album of the 90s.
>It's the greatest album.
then it would by default also be the greatest album of the 90's..

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>>69678367
>>69673916
If we're looking to kill shoegaze with innovation then I think I may have figured out a rig that can allow a full band sound with just 1 guitar.
https://youtu.be/kqiEHQL7ilk
In the link above, Adam Neely shows how a vocoder could be used to create a drum track with beat boxing. With this in mind all instruments could be recreated effectivelywith a guitar and multiple signal chains. Here's what I've figured so far.

Guitar>tuner>5 way splitter
>Chain 1 ("Percussion")
Compression >EQ (hard low pass) >fuzz >vocoder (beat boxing) >looper/ sampler >reverb(optional) >amp
>Chain 2 ("Bass")
EQ (hard low pass) >Octave >fuzz >sustainer >reverb >amp
>Chain 3 (Rhythm Guitar)
Compression >harmonizer (detune) >reverb (reverse) >fuzz >reverb (optional) >amp
>Chain 4 (Lead Guitar)
EQ (hard high pass) >EHX Mel9 (or other synth style pedal) >ring modulator (and/or other tone shaping effects) >fuzz >delay (almost entirely wet signal) >reverb >amp
>Chain 5 ("Voice")
Compression >EQ (hard high and low pass so only mids) >fuzz >vocoder (singing) >reverb >amp

Multiple renditions (players) can be employed to make transitions easier and more interesting.

>>69678345
lol another idiot

keep listening

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Try again

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fuccin noobs

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>>69673916
Don't mind me just coming through with the actual best album of 1991. Loveless is pretty cool too though.

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>>69673916
>Best album of the 90s
>Not pic related
kek

>>69680397
Nice anon

Pearl jam TEN was the best album of 91

Great album, definitely my favorite of 1991.
Not my favorite of the 90's though, that goes to my all time favorite ITAOTS.
This album is just a bit boring to me sometimes.
But Sometimes and Only Shallow are fucking amazing songs, and the whole album gets me in a nice cozy sleepy mood.

>>69680800
Lol funny

>>69673916
>>69677029
I wouldn't say the songs on this album are simple. Minimalist, maybe, but there's a lot of complexity beneath the surface in terms of harmonies, phrasing etc. What I particularly like is how the melodies have a way of propelling themselves along in a manner that makes them sound simultaneously extremely repetitive and constantly changing. How you could describe a song like "Come in Alone" as having poor songwriting is beyond me. Even without all the studio fuckery it would still be a genius pop song.