>Great album comes out >Teenagers on an anime forum hate

Ever notice how rather than actually try to talk about what's good about that album or why they like it, these people would rather just call anyone who doesn't like it names?

>>69473883
Actually I haven't noticed that but I'm glad I got your attention

The album is eclectic and has great solos and rewards patience so that's why I like it

Songs from this album were featured a couple times on the blindfold test jazz threads and reviews were generally positive to very positive. Though, it did sample the best songs from it (like Miss Understanding).

>>69473968
>eclectic and has great solos and rewards patience
wow I used to think the solos were terrible but now I'm convinced

>>69474183
Eh Miss Understanding is almost comically fast and some of the soloists can't keep up. I think the standout tracks are the soul jazz ones like Re Run and Isabelle

if you listened to literally any other jazz you would realize that its at best like a 5 out of 10 in the jazz world.

>>69474312
I like Miss Understanding, but your picks are great too. Especially Isabelle.

>>69473835
It's too funky for its own good

Looking for weeks for this song on 6:55

nobody answering anyone can help me out?

skoften.net/item/heerlijke_randomness_in_een_nieuwe_coubcompilatie_50

>inb4 bait

>>69473835
nobody who knows anything about jazz likes this

>>69474337
I have been a jazz musician since I was 10 and have played over 100 gigs.

>>69474256
How come? With regard to progression they can create/release tension well and generally all the soloists create nice melodies within. Granted the piano player is sort of noodly

Also some people say they have bad technique but these claims are worthless without being backed up by music theory-citing suggestions for how their technique could be better. And also this shouldn't be a sole reason for the album being bad, Horace Silver never had as good of technique of Oscar Peterson but is obviously a great

>>69474443
jazz is something you feel not "know".

its trendy to hate on among "jazz connoisseurs on /mu/". I bet you'd be stumped if you did a blind test that included the greats and also bits of this album.

>First guy to make a dent in the jazz world since the 70s
>Self proclaimed jazz experts start pretending its not a godsend for the genre

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>>69474543
>0ver 100
>a whole 100
>since you were 10?
so you either suuuuuck like really bad, play an instrument no on in the world wants to hire, or live in the middle of bum fuck...but there is a more likely possibility........UNDERAGED!!! MODS SICK EM!!!

>>69474645
Do you mean one of the first to bring jazz back to the mainstream? Not even close

If you mean first guy to influence jazz or advance it that's even more retarded

>>69474731
he has inspired people to pick up the sax. thats influence to me

I thought Bill Clinton did that.

>>69474795
That's really great and you should keep it up. But I just meant in the grand scheme there are like a dozen jazz musicians per decade more important than him

>>69474968
Can you name some, I'm trying to learn the genre.

>>69474443
>>69473968
>gr8 solos
>if u knew jazz u'd no it sucks

Seems like both sides are faggots.

>>69475125
During the 2010s Christian Scott, Brad Mehldau, Marcus Strickland and Verneri Pohjola have done a lot to influence the genre

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I remember listening to the album and thinking that Kamasi's soloing sounded pretty reliant on the pentatonic scale, but I thought since there seems to be some dispute about that, that I'd actually analyze his solo and find out. Just got done with the first page, but in the first 50 some bars of the solo he uses only F# pentatonic and F# major scales with the occasional added A natural blue note.

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>>69475382
Yeah, second page is also ENTIRELY F# pentatonic with the added A natural's

>>69475382

Damn no offense anon but how ya'll get so autistic about music. If it sounds good to my ears then we're good to go.

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>>69475471
Finally, on page three. One nice chromatic note outside of that F# pentatonic scale besides the A natural!

>>69475219
>Christian Scott,
threw up in my mouth a little there
>Brad Mehldau,
at least a decade too late
>Marcus Strickland
do you know what important means. and probably wrong decade too
>and Verneri Pohjola
literally who. no seriously who is that

>>69475482
it sounds like jazz discussion is not for you

>>69475482
The point is that Kamasi's playing doesn't sound good to me. I had a suspicion that his overuse of the pentatonic scale was the reason why, so I thought I'd test that and see if that was the case.

>>69475561
Who should I listen to then?

>>69475561

Discussion no, probably not. I like listening to jazz but I have no real interested in debating its merits. I guess I just don't see the point when it comes to music considering it's arguably the most subjective form of media there is.

>>69475482
Yeah, thats kinda what jazz musicians do man. like fucking transcribe. hats off to you jtg for caring enough about not only what you like but what you dont like to transcribe and find out why.

>>69475219
christian scott is a literal cancer as is marcus strickland, mehldau is good just white and boring, and yeah literally who verneri

>>69475609
Didn't actually do the transcribing myself, but from a quick look through it seems to be accurate. Too much stuff I WANT to transcribe to spend time on something I don't.

I figured with how popular the album was somebody else would post a transcription at some point and I'd just wait and analyze it when they did.

>>69475561
So you're saying Mehldau isn't influential this decade because he was already influential last decade?

>>69475659
yeah thats fair man, i wouldnt want to spend the time on that but knowing you dont like something and why you dont like it is important in developing a concept and you still bothered to do the analysis. whatcha transcribing these days friend-o?

>>69475561
>>69475628
Verneri is one of the most prominent Scandinavian jazz musicians this decade and also got a 4.5/5 on allaboutjazz

Is this gonna turn into one of those threads where the only good modern jazz albums are supposedly the most obscure releases on Criss Cross?

>>69475692
An Andy LaVerne solo from a tune he wrote called Tallboys that apparently isn't on youtube.

And I haven't started yet but I think the next thing I'd like to do is Chris Potter's solo on this tune. I love the rhythmic stuff he does. And everything that he plays is very clear... at least up until around the end of the solo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEi26w21mBw

>>69475628
Christian Scott's studio albums are pretty bad but his life performances are great

>>69475773
you have my attention, what label is verneri on? ECM? id be surprised if i let an acclaimed ECM release go by but hey man it happens.

>>69475773
now hold on there partner, I'M the Criss Cross guy in these parts. But even I don't think the only good modern jazz albums are on that label.

Name of album?

>>69475809
no, theyre fucking not. hes awful, really awful.

>>69474968
he certainly seems to be the biggest name

>>69475787
haha nice man, dave holland is killin. im just getting in to conference of the birds now. did you ever here those records that chris potters on with paul motian and i think masabumi kikuch? really really killin.

I bet in 20 years the same people are going to be claiming they were always fans

Can I please get the name of this album?

>>69475811
>>69475820
He has released on the label ACT among others. Maybe I didn't pick the most important musician I possibly could, but he is one of my favorites so I mentioned him

>>69475834
Wow hot opinion there. I'm from New Orleans and Christian Scott is a hero to the younger jazz musicians. Some of the stuffy traditionalists don't like him but that is how it is with musical progression

>>69475865
I don't think I've heard them all but I like the Trio 2000+1 record and I've heard a lot of tracks from the Village Vanguard recordings they did that are good.

>>69475899
The Epic

>>69475899
just type "wasabi washington jazz album " and you will find it

>>69475382
>>69475471
>>69475553
TOP KEK

>>69475603
I just think discussing who's are the "most influential of the 2010s" is a moot point

>>69475670
i wouldn't say hes influential this decade, he was first "influential two decades ago. Chick corea still releases music these days, some of its even good and could influence listeners. you wouldn't say he's an important artist of the 10s would you

>>69475773
>Finnish jazz
and used coffee grounds could get 4.5 stars on allaboutjazz, doesn't make him influential in the slightest

>>69476005
>objective evidence that someone's reason for disliking a solo is grounded
>WHAT A NERD
You can't win can you

>>69475918
alright, ill check him out, i wouldnt know about most european releases not on ECM. and who cares man, every nola cat i know kinda sucks haha probably cause they like christian scott.

>>69475926
i think theres like two or three of those but thats pretty much what i was saying. chris is cool but not my favorite but he did play with swana so thats dank.

>>69473835
this isn't really doing much for me but i only "casually" enjoy jazz compared to like actually musicians and critics and theorists and whatnot so idk

>>69474443
this isn't even close to true.

OP is right. This album is impossible to talk about on this board because of the completely unwarranted elitism of 17 year olds whose entire existence is based on an asinine and false sense of superiority where they can pathetically brag to other anonymous shut-ins about how "patrician" they are.

>>69476064
U wot? So I assume you play jazz, what scene are you involved in where nola musicians suck

>>69476103
Oh is that you Temple University guy?

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>>69476192
haha reporting

>>69476154
if theyre in college in the north east then i probably know them. their sound is just dated and they confuse "the tradition" with like goofy pentatonic shit and choppy bs but they do have good time.

>>69476250
I'm moving back to the east coast in a few months, just a few hours away from Philly so I hope to get there sometimes. Where do the Temple faculty play in Philly?

>>69476275
oh man thats a loaded question, really most places with jazz. you have terrell and oatts stuff at south or the art museum or kimmell center. but then theres like the serious philly dudes like swana or greg kettinger that play at chris's and la rose and sound fantastic. norman david has his 11tet play his weird shit once a week at some play house and the best by far is ben schachters monthly gig at an old man bar called the cherry street tavern.

>>69476270
You don't go to Berklee do you? I know at least 10 nola musicians who went there. Also know a Juillard kid

If you can't vibe with traditional jazz (what you probably think is "goofy pentatonic shit") then you either need to listen to more of it or just to loosen up. Idk I guess the scene there is more focused towards contemporary

I moved to Texas to study engineering and rumba/bluesy New Orleans licks are what gets the crowd going because they think it sounds exotic

>>69476005
this is just something jazz musicians do. its not hard idiot.

>>69476403
no i dont go to berklee and idk man, i would be cool with it but theyre all so fucking self righteous and nolaie like they never shut up about it

>>69475553
>>69475471
>>69475382
>how dare he only use two scales! jazz is about hitting random notes with your eyes closed

this is literally and figuratively you

>>69476328
Great. I'm thinking I'll be up to NY a lot but I'd like to get to Philly sometimes too.

>>69476466
I guess I don't know what point you're even trying to make here

>>69476521
you are dissin him for only using two scales in his solo but that isn't a bad thing

>>69476554
No, I'm explaining why I find his solos boring and uninteresting. I usually find players with a wider harmonic palette more interesting.

>>69476433
That's just a cultural difference, for instance I hear a lot of musicians who went up north complain that New York/Boston cats only want to play in 7 and 5 but have never even listened to Fats Waller or Sidney Bechet. But glad to hear your perspective because there are definitely some people down hear who are annoyingly resistant to progression in jazz

>>69475579
>overuse of the pentatonic scale

That's mostly all B.B. King ever played. Hell even Hendrix mainly stuck to pentatonics albeit bashing extra notes in and somehow making it work.

"scale overuse" just sounds like a buzzword for lacking expressiveness or simply lazy playing

>>69476603
and I am saying jazz music doesnt need people hitting notes at random to be enjoyable.

>>69476635
Well I never said that BB King or Hendrix was any better than Kamasi.

>>69476647
I agree with that. Luckily there's quite a bit of middle ground between 'playing two scales for an entire solo' and 'hitting notes at random'

>>69476606
yeah im not in that camp either, yeah new york and berklee guys play in 5 and 7 a lot and philly guys play way too much smash faux trane bs.

>>69476635
>>69476647
fuck you guys are retarded. anything more then two scales and it is immediately noise, what do you listen to, kpop? and uses blues players as an example in a jazz discussion...wew lads

>>69476826
>uses blues players as an example in a jazz discussion

Completely irrelevant.

Fact is two of the widely regarded best musicians ever played roughly to the same theoretical "boundaries" as this guy you're moaning about and blaming it on them.

>>69476786
What scene are you in then? The only scenes I really know are nola and Texas, with nola obviously being my background and all I know about Texas is that everyone wants to sound exactly like Glasper and Snarky Puppy which is pretty stifling desu

>>69476866
yeah but why would you try to compare ravi shankar to johnny cash?

>>69476897
philadelphia and about half of the time when im playing out its free jazz so i guess the phily free scene but i moved here two years ago from virginia.

>>69476966
I've been looking for more good free jazz stuff from this past decade so who do you think is/are the best free musician(s) playing in Philly currently and I will check them out

It sounds more like Steely dan rather than le heart suprmeme

>>69477011
uri caine, norman david, jon swana and ben schachters band quadraphillya plays free, jammalladeen tacuma, odean pope, matt shipp. its not a big scene but we move around. obviously im not in it like those guys are but i play a lot of the same places doing free stuff.

>>69477125
Oh lel I know Matt Shipp bc of DJ Spooky

has anyone actually listened to it before memeing about it? tell me your thoughts

>>69477125
also mikah jones and erik johnson and jeff lee johnson

>>69477125
I didn't know Uri Caine was in Philly. Also has Swana recorded much free stuff? I've only ever heard him do pretty much straight ahead stuff.

I got that Fractals album that got mentioned a while back but haven't listened to it yet. I think it's Hagans on that record anyway though.

>>69477167
I listened to both singles and posted it a few times before/the week it came out. The reaction shifted from "literally who" to "oh it's on flylo's label" to "meme jazz" in a matter of weeks

>>69474645
You actually think that there was no dent or anything of note from 80-2000s?

Holy fucking shit dude

>>69477204
yeah hagans is on fractals, bens best work is omnibus and his live bootlegs with his band with swana. theyre coming out with a record this month. its not a free group but swanas in the quartet and they play free like a third of the night usually.

>>69477167
i have, i enjoy it a lot, makes me feel good when listening. but i'm not a trained jazz musician who can discuss the playing in detail, citing sheet music in my arguments, so discussing jazz is not for me to partake in.

>>69477167
There's some potential there and some good tracks overall, but it's very scattered and not enough good tracks to justify 3 hours' worth.

Kamasi's solos are very underwhelming and he's given too much solo time. The mixing of the album was also atrocious.

>>69477281
Go listen to Pharoah Sanders' output from 1969-1975 and then try listening to the Epic

>>69477011
If you want good free jazz that's recent, Fire! put one out this year called She Sleeps, She Sleeps, real moody.

Anna Hogberg - Attack is brutal too

Also, Peter Brotzmann did an album with a fucking doom metal band (Black Bombain)

>>69477227
so it was you

>>69477805
Sure I noticed the album before it was a meme but that's because I follow jazz and not memes :^)

>le patrician jazz criss cross meme

Dude I love contemporary black music, Kendrick, Kamasi, the list goes on!!!

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>>69473835
It's a fantastic album.

It's ironic that little turds say stuff like 'oh, if you like this album then you don't know jazz' or 'this album is totally derivative, not original'.

People who say that have demonstrated their own lack of understanding of jazz. Also, I'd be willing to bet that over 90% of those who snivel about how 'derivative' the album is couldn't come up with a concrete frame of reference identifying a clear parallel between song X on The Epic and song Y on Album That is So Much Better.

Ironically, I (and more than a few of my fellow musicians) actually can do that X-to-Y mapping, and (as with so many great jazz records), having an actual familiarity with those musical allusions actually enhances the listening experience.

>>69474443
>"no true scotsman" checked

I like the album but I don't quite hear it as a revolution. I can get behind the idea of 'The Next Step,' I just hope more steps are taken in directions other than maximalism.

>>69477347
>She Sleeps, She Sleeps
that was a fucking snorefest. also not really free jazz. Ritual was a bit more enjoyable but also a letdown. Gustafsson's collab on Melt was better, but hardly jazz. and his tribute concert had some great stuff but also like two hours of not good stuff

I will check out anna hogberg though, could be good

>>69477919
>F# pentatonic

>>69477941
Yeah I concur, despite it being a solid album and all, the overtones of "this is jazz's future" from track titles like "Change of the Guard" and "The Next Step" is really annoying. Especially when the only unique things about the album are the cheesy church choir and the fact that it got a pitchfork review

>>69477941
this being said they were one of the very best live music shows I've ever seen and was an undoubtedly spiritual experience

>>69477985
damn really? I hope I see them at Day for Night