Friendly reminder if you >don't play an instrument >don't

>chalk-full
nice touch, the rest was kinda generic tho
work on it

>>68655757
>generic
these are basic skills, meant to be basic because it at least shows the person has some sort of interest in learning more about music on a deeper level.
I wasn't going to say you have to have taken lessons with world class musicians, went to school/conservatory for it, taken 5 years of music theory from gregorian chant to 21st century theory, taken music history, been in wind ensembles/orchestras/ etc because that narrows it down to like 2% of us that have actually gone through the ropes.

You're not wrong.

>>68655689
>5 years
>play basic shit
git gud anon

>>68655689
Not everybody wants to play the skin flute as much as you do OP

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>>68655689
You obviously don't know me very well OP.

But yeah. Seriously laughing at how pathetic everyone else on this board is.

>>68656351
I know people who walk around telling people they've been playing for a decade and still drop phrases, drop time in the middle of a form, lose form, etc.

>>68655922
I am one of these people, I know lots of people like this who are pleb as all fuck. I know lots of people who can't play / know shit who have great taste. This post is dum dum

>>68656477
*ahem* git. gud.

>>68656697
What good is good taste when they don't have the means to describe, recreate, or otherwise know what's happening? How do they know it's good taste to begin with outside of people telling them "yep, that's good taste!"
I go to school with people who listen to top 40 unironically but are absolute killer musicians and know their shit, I can't say the same with people who don't play but "have good taste"

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>>68655689
>>don't play an instrument
>>don't know basic theory
>>haven't dedicated at least 5 years to an instrument(s)

>fulfill all requirements and have mediocre taste
Ha

>>68656804 see
>>68656768

>>68655689
>Why are you trying to convince people you're patrician
Jesus christ, it must be tough going through life this autistic and insecure

All opinions are meaningless you ignorant fuck

>>68655689
it's chock-full not chalk-full you pleb

if you don't know what you're trying to say you shouldn't be allowed to post imo

>>68656821
Which is why I call my taste mediocre, since nothing's special about it. I don't listen to a huge range of artists, and have yet to appreciate and/or develop an understanding for all types of music, which is what I believe would be called "patrician".

>>68656831
poke around in the threads you'll see a lot of people bashing and hating on music but clearly don't know what they're talking about and are completely ignorant of music nomenclature and pretty much all of these people come from this "I know more than you" stance with literally nothing to back it up. It's a joke

>>68656882
As a musician, I'd more than likely listen to the opinion of a musician I respect than some random /mu/tard that spews nothing but shit and can't articulate why.

>>68656914
I blame siri desu

>>68656972
>phoneposter

you're scum t b h

>>68656972
>poke around in the threads you'll see a lot of people bashing and hating on music but clearly don't know what they're talking about and are completely ignorant of music nomenclature and pretty much all of these people come from this "I know more than you" stance with literally nothing to back it up. It's a joke
yes? that's 4chan, contrarian 16-24 year olds with arrested development who think they know a lot more than they actually do about any given topic

>>68656972
>As a musician, I'd more than likely listen to the opinion of a musician I respect than some random /mu/tard
And that's just your opinion
I hold the opinion that's opposite to your opinion, that a /mu/tant's opinion is as valued as anyone else's opinion, who's opinion is correct if I disagree with yours? Considering after all they are only beliefs/opinions and not objective facts

>>68657072
But in the context of music, talking to Chris Potter about harmony, or talking to Eric Harland about sparse improv over odd time-signatures, or Dave Discenso about solidifying internal time is far more valid than a /mu/tant's opinion of it who doesn't have nearly the experience as anyone mentioned above. Why would I want to listen to opinions that have no substance or experience behind it outside of contrarian opinions for the sake of being contrarian? How is that more valid or as equally as valid?

>>68657157
You're argument about which sound sound better to the ear is on the Same level as which food tastes nicer to the tongue

>>68657404
I guess... but I'd trust Gordon Ramsay's tongue (years of dedicated experience and learned knowledge of cooking) over a school's cafeteria lady's tongue. There's still an enormous fucking difference between the pallets and where the information is coming from, is there not? Is one more qualified than the other on the subject? Do you think they're both on the same level, and if so, why aren't there more Michelin star lunch lady restaurants?

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>>68656768
>How do they know it's good taste to begin with outside of people telling them "yep, that's good taste!"

what kind of autism is this
do you hear yourself guy

>>68657581
?
How do you know what's good taste if you don't have a reference? where do these references come from? validation from your peers, how do you not understand that is beyond me.

>>68657637
There is no such thing as good or bad taste, all music is subjective

That's like you saying you can't have an opinion on movies unless you direct/film/edit movies yourself.

>>68655689
You can have opinions of music without doing any of this, you can have to have valid points to back up why you like the sound of an artist without knowing exactly what went into the song
>>68657962
this

>>68655689
>>68655922
>>68656768
every time i see this opinion i can't help but think how do these people enjoy music if they think that good is always directly related to the production method/techniques rather than the final product itself and what it evokes and provokes on the listener

>>68658073
Simple.
1.) Listen to product
2.) Do I enjoy it?
If not
Why? Does it evoke a certain emotion? Does it serve the purpose it was created for and did it do a good job at conveying that? Do I like the use of harmony and rhythm in the context of the genre? Etc etc
And if Yes
1.) listen to it again and pick out what aspect I like, why I like it, then transcribe what I like and use it in my own arsenal of music.
2.) Learn and create exercises based on the form/aesthetic/conceptual structure and learn as much as I can
3.) on a deeper level, dive into specific instruments and learn the techniques and practice them and make them your own


Vs

Yah I like that song
Or
Nah I don't like that song

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>>68655689
But... it's hard to learn how to play instruments.

I picked up violin for like 1 year and i suck, i suck really hard.

>>68655689
Unfortunately the majority of people on /mu/ who can play an instrument are guitarists, and most guitarists aren't serious musicians

There is nothing left to be done with hundred(+) year old instruments. It is literally pointless to try and learn guitar or violin or piano or whatever, you will never be anything special no matter how technically skilled you become because there is simply no innovation left.

All of the innovation is happening with, surprise, computers, which is what you consider "pleb" (anyone who uses this word unironically should kill themselves by the way).

>>68655689
I've done all of those things and still think you're a huge faggot desu.

>>68658579
I bet you're fun at orgies

>>68659440
t. non-creative pleb

>>68659567

I don't even bother to be creative. I work an actual job to get paid and support myself instead of attempting to be some faggy "artist."

The amount of education you would need to actually do something "creative" in the context of modern music is staggering and not worth the debt and stress to me.

But yeah, go fuse some pop genres and call it "experimental" and maybe you'll be the next Kanye West, you got it man.

>>68659600
stemfags leave now

>>68659600
Must suck to be you.
I support myself playing drums full time and teaching privately. Almost all of my mornings and afternoons are free for me to practice, write, record, rehearse, or lounge and I play gigs in the evenings, take recording sessions and tours as they come to me.
At least I'm happy with what I do for money and not at some shit desk job doing god knows what for your jewish overlords.

>>68659600
Some people can't hang, but because they suck at something you just assume everyone sucks at it too. Not the case at all.

>>68659826

so why do you waste time on /mu/?

>jewish overlords

oh fuck off, this is how I know you're bullshitting

>>68659600
What have you not heard of a hobby you dipshit? Musicians have jobs too unless they're moderately famous. I work a normal job and my free time is largely spent on music in some way.

>>68655689
If you applied this train of thought to other forms of media you are undoubtedly interested in (even if to a lesser degree) you would likely find you're kind of an idiot.

>>68655689
agreed

I think it's so fucking funny that people think Op is baiting or being unreasonable when this is completely 100% accepted by anyone who knows anything about music.

A music board rejects the idea that understanding how music works is necessary to understand how music works. What do you think that says about this shithole?

>>68656408

>posts weebshit
>calls anyome else pathetic

Back to your containment board m/a/nchild.

>>68659930
Not Op, but you're wrong. If you are smug about your opinion on film and don't know any theory about how it works, have never taken classes on it, educated yourself or made films yourself, you are pretentious and full of shit.

There's nothing wrong with being an average joe consumer, but don't pretend like your opinion is important or informed in any way.

>>68655689
I know this is bait but i'll reply anyway.

I don't give a shit if you think i'm a pleb. I'm not here to become a """"""patrician"""""""" i'm here to discover music i've never heard before and expand my tastes. That doesn't necessarily mean that i want to become a "patrician". It just means one day I was listening to mainstream radio and thought, "Man, this is terrible. I don't want to listen to it anymore." Simple as that. If I truly cared about being a patrician I wouldn't be listening to music I enjoy such as Modest Mouse, Swans, and Sonic Youth, Instead, I would be listening to some obscure shit that I absolutely hate. In fact, I think both the terms need to disappear due to the fact that we are no longer in ancient Rome.

>>68660021
He's clearly not talking about you fuckbag. There are tons of people on this board who are cocky about their understanding of music when they can't even make up or perform a simple piece of music and no absolutely nothing about how it works.

>>68659990
Studying film sure, needing to make films? No.

>>68660021
know

>>68660072
It's either one or both. You need some experience creating that art form or really being informed on its

>>68658073
You can write a novel with the most emotional, heartbreaking story in the world in concept, but if you can't write well then it's gonna be a shitty book no matter how you look at it. As an artist, you must have masterful control of your technique in order to provoke the intended emotional response in the audience. You can't just criticize technique and emotional response separately, because they are one and the same.

>>68655689
what if you're a front man/woman?

>>68660124
Do you compose any of the music or know theory? I would consider your opinion more important than someone with 0 musical experience or knowledge, but just getting good control over vocals that someone else composes isn't enough to tell other people that they don't know about music.

>>68660170
Would you extend that to users of other instruments? Is getting good control over a sonata good enough for a violinist or do they need to compose one too, to be considered "important" by you?

BUT DEATH GRIPS IS SO GOOD YOU JUST DONT UNDERSTAND YOU'RE A PLEB KEK HAHA GRIMES

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>thinking that any of those criteria instantly makes you patrician as fuck

Please dear god keep this retarded gatekeeping shit off this board, or at least try and make the criteria accurate.

>>68660262
I highly doubt that a violinist who can play a sonata doesn't know anything about theory, but yeah sure. Also man, almost every human figures out how to sing at least a little bit not long after they learn to talk. I'm not saying it's hard to get really good, but it's basically just practice. You don't really have to know much at all about music to be a good singer.

>>68660346
It's a bare minimum for being able to act like you know what you're talking about. If you don't have even that then you are a pleb. This is very simple.

>>68660360
I was just wondering if you were being completely incoherent or just arbitrary. I got my answer.

>>68660380
But being able to understand the music you're listening to on a technical level or being able to play parts of it on some random ass instrument doesn't really contribute to your enjoyment or taste. I mean, I would say people who at least know some theory or play an instrument have better taste, but its not because they play an instrument or know theory, its because they're willing to work to understand and enjoy music.

You're no better than dadrocker le wrong generation trash if you take pleasure in being elitist as fuck desu

>>68660418
Pull the stick out of your ass, it's not a big deal. I'm just saying that you shouldn't be acting like your opinion matters at all if you have never composed any music or don't know theory. I'm a singer primarily, and I used to basically just be a parrot who covered songs. I didn't know shit, but now I do.

>>68660463
>understanding or creating a form of art has nothing to do with your taste or what you get out of that art form

Do you know anything about any art form or are you capable of creating any art? Because this is the opinion who has no experience in the subject matter.

This board is full of elitist fucks who don't deserve to feel that way. That's what this entire thread is about. If you're pretentious people are going to call you out for it, and that's exactly what myself, Op and a few other people have done in this thread.

>>68659887
Probably because I've spent about 10 years browsing 4chan on and off and occasionally find my way on this board when I'm not doing anything music related in real life and what to talk to other people about tunes, composition, new releases, share sound clouds etc etc.

>all these plebs disagreeing with this obviously true statement
op is just saying that having knowledge of music theory is a prerequisite for being able to intelligently discuss music. i can't believe anyone would ever try to disagree with this. it should go without saying

>>68660581
Welcome to this shit board full of angry children.

>>68660552
But you're just as bad as these people, it's just that your criteria make you a level above their elitism.

I mean do you want me to fucking brag on an anonymous imageboard? Do you want every single argument to devolve into two anons just wanking about their personal achievements? This just sounds like you can't justify your opinion on a piece of music so you just want to stick a fucking verification stamp on it and walk away.

>>68660262
Not him but if you're a competent classical musician, you should be able to incorporate some theory knowledge into your interpretation of the piece. For an example, "oh there's an imperfect authentic cadence here and a perfect authentic cadence 4 measures later so I will soften the dynamics on first cadence and gradually build to the stronger one" or "this passage is a series of suspensions and resolutions so I will make sure to emphasize every resolution"
I mean a lot of this is intuitive if you've listened to a lot of music but theory is also intuitive if you've listened to a lot of music.
You don't need to learn how to compose if you're just in the performance business but some knowledge on analysis is great to fall back on when internally monologuing on how to perform a piece.

>>68657924
That's essentially saying a musician can't improve.

>>68660694
It's a hierarchy dumbass. I never claimed I was an expert, I just know my opinion matters more than someone who doesn't know anything about music. I've been playing for most of my life, I get paid, I compose music and I impress people pretty consistently. You may be even better and that's awesome, but that doesn't change the fact that a lot of these people know nothing about theory or composition and they act like their opinion matters.

>>68660739
No it isn't. There's definitely a right and wrong way of playing a piece of music, he's just saying that after that point of perfection the subjectivity comes from musical liberties taken like getting louder/softer or playing staccato, legato or marcato

mfw music noobs say stupid shit, get called out, and only fling more shit to cover up previous shit and avoid actual conversation
>no face