/comp/ - Composition General

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I quite liked this quote even though it's kind of like quoting someone saying "the atom is the smallest unit of matter" on the subatomic general.

This book in general has really fascinating stuff. Most of them are just too long to use as quotes. Last time I mentioned Cleonides who simplifies Aristoxenus's textdump. But Aristoxenus became a lot easier to read once I realized it's one big rebuff of Plato and Aristotle's views on music theory, which focus more on morality than on actual musicality

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How do musical forms work? I don't mean "what are they", sonata form, theme and variations, pop song form, 12-bar blues, binary, ternary, etc. How do they work? How do these play into and with the audience's expectations? What are the component parts of this interaction?

Where can I go to learn about this sort of thing? I've been kind of making do with looking into dramatic structure, the hero's journey, etc, but I feel like they might not be exact parallels.

Anyone good at atonal (or at least very loosely tonal) counterpoint able to lend a hand with a piece I'm working on?

>>68633009
I dunno what you'd define as good at it, but I've fooled around with that sort of thing frequently, so sure

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>>68633126
Well, I've got this recurring motif in a piece I'm working on; it's really angular and chromatic (pic related). That's notated in A major atm, btw. Ignore the left-hand cluster at the end.

Anyway, I'm trying to orchestrate the piece, and I want to fill in the texture at that point, by coming up with a few lower contrapuntal lines to go with it. Especially ones which are a little longer in note-length and use a lot of oblique motion. Any ideas? It leads to an F#m6.

It'll be tricky, since I'm breaking the line up across multiple instruments to really fragment it, but any ideas you have would help. I could attach the orchestration as it stands so far if that'll help?

>>68633404
That probably would help, in fact if possible I'd also like to the context around that little snippet.

One question, are you sure you want to be notating this in A Major? It could have a tonal center of A, but a general rule of thumb is that you should only use a key signature if it decreases the number of accidentals you need to write. I only ask because it seems to start with a C#, followed by a Cb, followed by a C natural an octave below. Actually, these enharmonics I'm also wondering about, is there any reason to notate that Cb instead of B, E# instead of F? Also, the natural sign next to the sixth note D seems to imply the previous D is modified by an accidental from earlier, which is why I'm asking for context.

Thought I'd post this before trying to think of something counterpoint-wise.

>>68633404
Ah, now that I play it it makes a lot more sense. Quite a cool little snippet. Still see no reason for the Cb to be B though. The E# would make sense if it moved to F#, which would be more normal to see in an A Major piece than F moving to Gb. Also, is it possible the fourth note is D#? (That would make DE#F# make more sense in context. Personally I'd prefer CDE and DEF# over CD#E and DE#F#, but of course there's something to be said about both.)

Do you envision the meter, not counting the Gb/F#, as (2+2+2)+(2+2)? Or (3+3)+(2+2)? Or perhaps a hemiola between the left and right hands?

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>>68633404
>>68634270
>>68635046
Finale keeps unexpectedly closing. I was almost done, too

Well, now I have to bump I guess

>>68636527
what version on finale are you on? anything past the 2012 version seems to be buggy when not original. Ever tried Sibelius? V.7.5 seems okay.

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>>68636695
2014. I've used Sibelius before (very little, so I don't really know much about it), it's pretty decent, but Finale's speedy entry is too good to pass up. If only speedy entry wasn't also the source of most of the crashes.

It wouldn't be so bad if there were some sort of autosave function. Well, there might be one and I haven't noticed yet.

>google it
>The autosave files are created whilst you work, but the moment Finale crashes the .asv file is automatically deleted! (from someone on the Finale forums)
What the fuck

Anyways, >>68633404, here are a few suggestions. Wasn't really sure what you were going for regarding a tonal center at this point in the piece, at first I thought it might be C but it could also be D, or a number of other possibilities.

>>68632712
>How do musical forms work?
They're like structures in regular songs - verse - chorus - verse - bridge - etc, but more complex and often with specific relationships between the sections.
>Where can I go to learn about this sort of thing?
Form in Music by Wallace Berry

Brief overview here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_form
https://www.teoria.com/en/tutorials/forms/

>>68637654
No, I mean, I know all that. How do those structures in pop songs work, then?

Basically, if pop song form is a bicycle, rounded binary form is the general concept of a cart, sonata form is a car, etc. I'm not asking what a car is and how it relates to a bicycle, I'm asking what the general components of each are and how they add up to result in it moving.

>>68637888
read the links I posted. Form gives your small scale ideas like melodies and phrases a larger framework to exist in.

A car is made up of many tiny parts, you need to start at the smallest bolt an work your way up, learning chemistry and engineering along the way to fully understand it.

Then you find out that some cars are metric and some are imperial, so you need 2 sets of tools!

Posting a draft of a piece I'm working on for a video game about wizards and spellcasting
https://clyp.it/m1t1kd5l let me know what you all think. Right now I'm feeling there may not be enough negative space or breathing room. But it's also for the main menu, so I feel that no breathing room might be a good thing?

>>68633404
do have any audio of this (even a WIP) I'm curious.

>>68637888
They are easily learnt forms that guide the audiences ear through the development of the piece, in my opinion. I don't think large forms are totally effective in a vacuum, but become effective because they become familiar culturally.

verse chorus popsongs are CONTEXT - EMOTION - MORE CONTEXT - EMOTION - DEVELOPMENT - EMOTION, and when that becomes familiar it becomes powerful, and the pop song is especially good for conveying lyrical ideas.

Sonata form is great for instrumental music, because it gives you all the material up front and allows the audience to become accustomed to it, then develops it, and reminds you where it all started. Ternary and rondo are less sophisticated versions of this, but with the general idea of establishing ideas, contrasting them, and returning. The idea of returning is just something that became popular in common practice period, other folk musics are through composed and don't require the sense of recapitulation.

blues form is simple, it is a vector to strongly convey a single lyrical idea. Even in instrumental lyrics, the blues melodies will often have repeated elements between lines 1 and 2, mimicking the roots of a song form.
SET UP,
SET UP REPEATED (possibly from African antiphonal roots, but I'm just throwing that out there)
PUNCH LINE


Basically, I think form doesn't "work", it evolved to best suit the kind of music it was meant to carry. That's just my opinion though. This is for standard forms I guess, I have no idea how non-standard forms work.

>>68638210
Your sample sounds a bit too happy and naive, if it's a fairy tale kinda wizard game, that will work.

>>68638280
Yeah, they wanted comical and whimsical, so I think that fits. It's a VR sandbox-y game

How do I notate something with a digital piano? I just want to play it and have it show up on the page as notes. Is this possible? Or do I have to make a MIDI recording and import the file into a notation software?

>>68638859
I think it is possible in sibelius, but the best option will still be to play into a DAW and then export midi / xml to a notation program. The reason is unless you're a robot, a notationally interpretation of your playing is going to be messy. You can play into a DAW, make a duplication, and quantize the fuck out of it (both onset and offset), and that will save you a tonne of time of twiddling in a notation program

Sleep bump.

Don't you die on me

>>68639662
comp is dead

>>68638132
>>68638210
>it evolved to best suit the kind of music it was meant to carry
This is a really interesting thought, I hadn't considered this.

Yeah, there's definitely an element of "it works because the audience is familiar with it" to standard forms. I'm asking so I can better understand nonstandard form, however.
For example
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juNxRYBWB9g
There's very clear structure, clear returns, and yet it doesn't fit anything standard.
Others:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6kqu2mk-Kw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMKyTAe6yeM
(most of these are program music or art songs, for obvious reason. There's nonstandard absolute music though)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxw3FYPuIzc

>>68641534
I do think programmatic shit needs to avoid standard musical forms, I've been writing stuff for films recently, and by necessity the forms (and phrasing) have been weird. It might just be the case that in these situations, the form isn't necessarily powerful in itself, it's just bending to something extramusical, like how the harmony of erlkonig is following the extramusical story.
But that of course ignores the fact that these forms are still compelling without the programmatic elements (I was thrilled by afternoon of a faun's form before I knew anything about the poem it was based on), so I guess I also have to do some more listening and thinking.

I want to make experimental electronic music, where should I start? I took a comp class back in highschool but that was 3 years ago.

>>68642832
Start by experimenting, with electronic music.

Pretty much anything goes.

>>68643753
Yes but what do I use? Is there software I should be learning or synths or ? In school I played trombone and that's it. Zero digital knowledge

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Can anyone explain the purpose of multi measure beaming like pic related? This is an excerpt from Langeleiklat from Geirr Tveitt's Fifty Hardanger Folk Tunes if that helps.

>>68644403
depends. you can go software, or you can go hardware.

Dont expect us to hold your hand anon. get out there, google synthesizers. acquire, experiment, report back in 10 years.

>>68644492
I'm guessing it's to convey the idea of an unchanging, static arpeggiation figure. At least personally it looks a lot more placid than it would look barred normally.

>>68642673

>>68634270
Ughh, sorry! I fell asleep on you. Here's what I have so far for context. Bear in mind, it's really unfinished.

http://imgur.com/a/9ol9Q

>are you sure you want to be notating this in A Major? No, but the previous bar clearly tonicises A, and it's probably easier to have a few accidentals than to change key every 3 bars?

>I only ask because it seems to start with a C#, followed by a Cb, followed by a C natural an octave below.

Ahh fuck. I forgot to mention that the top stave is also a bass clef (with the bottom stave being 8vb bass). Sorry.

Should read E - Eb - E - F# - G - F - D - C - F - G# - Bb.

So yeah, there's E and Eb clashing, F# and F, as well as G and G#. I just figured, with this level of chromaticism, I might as well just spell them according to the direction they're moving, since there's going to be dozens of accidentals anyway.

>Do you envision the meter, not counting the Gb/F#, as (2+2+2)+(2+2)

Yeah, that's what I was feeling it as, since it matched the melodic contour.

>do have any audio of this (even a WIP) I'm curious.

Here's the start I made on piano (http://vocaroo.com/i/s0PvaFjsbOyQ).

>>68638821
>>68638280
>>68638210

I really liked the whimsical sound of it. In fact, I might've even called for a little more staccato to bring that out.

>>68645634
Oh, now everything makes a lot more sense, like the G# and Bb are just orbiting around A which they lead to in the next nanosecond. (Though I've kind of grown attached to the way I read it before to be honest.) This sounds pretty sweet by the way.

Actually, I'd say the Eb might be better notated as a D# (and the Eb/Ab in the LH as D#/G#). In fact I'd say it should be written as

>E D#(D#/G#) E(D#/G#) F# G(E#/Bb) E#(E#/Bb) D B# E# G# Bb G#
Normally I wouldn't wish that doubly diminished fifth between E# and Bb on anybody, but, well, this is in F# minor. The thing you have with G# and Bb orbiting around A, in a less overt and more subtle manner, occurs all over the place even just within that measure. G# and Bb lead to A, E# and G lead to F#, and D and B# lead to C#.

Basically it's two minor triads' worth of diminished thirds, Gmin and E#min, coalescing into the minor triad between them, F#min. It's actually really cool. Spelling it this way might obscure, oddly enough, the function of each of those notes.

Unrelatedly, at measure 18 for instance, make sure to notate those rhythms properly. My college conductor is always getting on us about this.
A compound-meter quarter+eighth is a folksong-esque rhythm, like the Moldau.
https://youtu.be/3G4NKzmfC-Q?t=1m6s
A simple-meter dotted quarter+eighth is something strict, almost oppressive, like the Montagues and Capulets.
https://youtu.be/ljOMXgfflRI?t=1m42s

And don't even get me started on what if you play them at the same time. (Which as it happens you've notated at measure 20. You play them as though they're both quarter+eighth though.)

I desperately need to get to sleep. Sorry I didn't actually help at all with the counterpoint

>>68646158
since embedded videos don't take you to the time specified in the link
The Moldau rhythm starts at 1:07.
The Montagues and Capulets rhythm starts at 1:37. Dunno why I have it linked to 1:42.

>>68642832
Download a DAW, a bunch of plugins and a bunch of samples, IRs, waveforms and whatever else. That should give you enough material to start, just be sure to actually start instead of hoarding new stuff forever like I do ::^)
Sooner or later you should also consider learning computer musicianship and use a DSP/live synthesis environment -- like pure data, max(Fennesz uses this one, for example), supercollider, faust, etc. -- to do your own stuff.

>>68645496

>>68646746

getting carried away with a fugue exposition:

https://clyp.it/wveirqov

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>>68631703
>THEORY
>>Fux's Counterpoint
>http://www.opus28.co.uk/Fux_Gradus.pdf
>>Orchestration (Rimsky-Korsakov)
>http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/forumdisplay.php/77-Principles-of-Orchestration
>>Teoria - Music Theory General Guides/Articles/Excercises
>https://www.teoria.com/index.php
>>Arnold Schoenberg's "Fundamentals of Music Composition"
>https://monoskop.org/images/d/da/Schoenberg_Arnold_Fundamentals_of_Musical_Composition_no_OCR.pdf
>>20th century music by Stefan Kostka
>http://www.dmu.uem.br/aulas/analise/Kostka_MaterialsTechniquesXXCenturyMusic.pdf
>>Jazz harmony (from the course at Berklee)
>http://davidvaldez.blogspot.com/2006/04/berklee-jazz-harmony-1-4.html

I can barely read sheets. Where should I start?

>>68647829
http://www.musictheory.net/lessons

>>68647850
T-thanks!
Actually, this seems to be the basics. After I learn this, how should I continue?

>>68647991
depends what you want to do. Do you want to learn to write in the classical style? or learn about serialism? jazz harmony? learn how to work with professional performers? orchestration?
Work out what you want to do with theory and then go about learning what you need to do it.

>>68648054
My goal is the progressive rock, but I also like classical.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGWiYUv0twU

>>68648171
Learn the basics, reading notes and harmony. counterpoint is good too. Focus mainly on ear training. The best way you'll improve at writing progressive rock is to learn songs you like by ear (all parts), write them down and analyze with the analysis tools you got from classical music. Also check out jazz harmony, not just classical.

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>>68648192
I appreciate it, anon. I'm starting right now!

>>68645634
>I might've even called for a little more staccato to bring that out.
Thanks! That's a good suggestion

Burp

>>68650064

Can anyone give me a rough idea/guide on how to write 'turnaround' endings for jazz stuff? Like, stuff like this, how do I proceed with ending it on a chord that isn't the tonic?

Like for example some songs like to do some sort of roundabout then end on the VIIb7#11.

>>68651731
Figure out what your target is, usually the 1 chord, but not all chords start on the 1. Figure out how you directly want to approach the one, V7 is the norm, subV7 (bII7) is also common, bIImaj7, like you said bVII7 is also common. And then you can figure out how many chords you need and work backwards. If you need two chords and you're approaching with bVII7, you can use 5th motion, and go IV-7 bVII7 Imaj7 (which is common enough to have a name, back door turnaround). If you wanted three chords, you could go Imaj7 subV7/IV IV-7 bVII7 to mix up chromatic and 5th bass motion.
And of course you have to keep these harmonic considerations in line with your melody
When your tune doesn't start on the 1 you usually have to be a little more creative. When I play stella, which is in Bb and starts with E-7(b5), I play this turn around usually (with an F in the melody):
Bbmaj7 (melody is the 5th) Abmaj7 (melody is the 13th) Gbmaj7 (melody is the 7th) F7sus4 (melody is the root / tension 15, the anacrusis is the sus4)

>>68651978
>usually the 1 chord, but not all chords start on the 1
I mean, "not all TUNES start on the 1 chord"

>>68651731
From how I understand it the turnaround is just a cadence put as if the goal chord was the I, and adjusting other scale degrees to do so. Like if you're doing a 2-5-1 to the IV chord, you'd get a vmin and a I7, neither of which are within the scale but complete the turnaround to the IV.

>>68651731
>how do I proceed with ending it on a chord that isn't the tonic?

You can end it on a tonic substitute like something built off of vi or III (bVI or bIII in minor), you can work in sequences (eg: ii - V - I in C, ii - V - I in Bb, ii - V - I in Ab, etc), you can do an irregular resolution (eg: end the turnaround on a bVII, but then treat that as a V that you can resolve into the new key as in: || C - Am - F - Bb | Eb - Cm - Ab - Db | Gb - Ebm - Cb - Fb || - Other options exist, such as treating the V as a bVII, the V as a subV, or the subV as a V)

>>68651978
>>68652016
>>68652047

This is all very helpful and even though it's 1AM over here and I'm dreadfully tired from Digital Logic lectures, I will keep all these in mind. Thank you.

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Could someone give me feedback on my minimalist piece? Bear in mind it is the first time I've written notation for a "full" piece of music, and it is also not finished –I am not sure quite how I will finish it.

http://vocaroo.com/i/s02WjiocvAPE

>>68652812
Can't open the clyp on mobile, just from looking at the sheet: any reason why Violin 2 is almost always playing higher pitches than violin 1? Why not swap those voices? You sure about moving in clusters of 2nds around 1/3 into the piece? Iirc, minimalism is still pretty tonal

>>68652812
So I really don't like this, I am not 100% sure why, probably because I am not anywhere an expert of minimalism. But when I listen to minimalism I enjoy, it definitely feels complete, and this piece doesn't feel complete. I think it's because you're relying on a lot of harmony and melodic tendencies that sound like typical music. There's too much tension and release, and I don't feel like it's evolving gradually over time. And because this minimalism is failing, this feels like an empty typical piece, as if a melody is missing. Have you studied minimalist scores? Who do you admire in that style? I think Terry Riley would be a good model to move out of this very tonal (tonal in the sense of, moving towards the tonal center, rather than just describing pitch classes)

Also there are some bad counterpoint practices in here, that I think are important to fix regardless of style. Measure 16 has oblique motion to a major 2nd, which just really doesn't sound compelling. It's a cool idea if done intentionally, but since it just pops up on an unstressed passing melodic line, and doesn't repeat much in other contexts, it sounds like a mistake. I'd also take a look at your rhythmic ideas, sometimes the cumulative rhythm could be more compelling, especially in the beginning. When the second violin comes in, it only adds harmonic content, and the rhythm stays the same. That's okay in the beginning, but then it keeps happening, the Vl2 part locking in 100% with the Vl1. There's definitely more you could be doing, which would also make your piece more characteristically minimalistic (Glass would be a good person to look into for this)

But again, I'm not very knowledgable about minimalism, but you do seem to be failing to bring across what makes minimalism work.

>>68636956
watch out for that invisible bar line if pic related is yours. That's gonna be a pain to sight read

>>68653171
Don't worry, he was only showing me a fragment of a bar anyway. The actual bar is longer than 4/4, and performers will either have to parse it via beaming, or else I'll break it into smaller bars.

use Organum to your advantage

generate dynamic, wide textures by duplicating and transposing your melody by 5ths, 3rds, 4rths, 6ths or 9ths. ignore contrapuntal aversion to perfect intervals moving in parallel.

when using organum in 3rds, prioritize the transposed interval over the key signature of the root melody.

when writing organum (ex/ maj3rd above) on C major melody, if the root strikes D, the organum voice is F#. The root melody will retain F natural as its supertonic, if that scale degree is used. likewise, if the root melody modulates and utilizes D flat, the organum voice would now be on F

spread these voices over octaves and across the orchestra. works well in woodwinds.

a famous example:

https://youtu.be/dZDiaRZy0Ak?t=9m30s

-fritz

>>68654009
Was this meant in response to someone?

to the minimalist:

sound like this idea isnt really meant to be minimalistic. your melody has energy but it is leading somewhere else.

research tonal cells and ask yourself how you can use these in minimalism. minimalism is about gradual change, but its also important to take the time you need to fully develop a minimalist idea.

orchestration is very important in minimalism. i may be biased as a percussionist, but some instruments are not meant to be minimalistic. mallet percussion, keyboards, percussive string techniques and synths produce a much more marketable sound when you're working in a relatively visceral and cutthroat genre like minimalism.

Homophonic harmony is really important because you can maintain a constant repeating texture, while still activating an entire cell's worth of notes. Use these chord tones to generate upper range melodies and organum harmonies. ride the implied accents of your rhythmic/harmonic accompaniment to generate layers.

also take a page out of reich's music for 18. phase shit. layer shit. have fun. youre jackson fucking pollack.

then suddenly change the tonal cell. shift every high-function tone to it's nearest functional neighbour, retain common tones and continue with the new section you just generated out of thin air.

yes it was a general response to individuals looking to improve their workflow earlier in the thread.

theres a lot of talk about schoenberg and all the university theory class stuff.

organum as an effect (instead of medieval chant organum) is more of a subject for composition courses

>>68654343
On an actual organ, this kinda organum is already kinda given, since you have register stops that transpose in octaves, fifths, thirds, and in rare cases also seventh and nineth, all on accordance with the overtones of the key you strike.

Transposing organum down (and out of their actual overtone position) is something I'd only do in a neo tonal or "pop" music context.

Then again, out of curiosity, does it actually work if you reinforce the overtones of a melody using orchestra instruments? Like, having clarinets play one octave higher, flutes playing one octave and a fifth higher, piccolo 2 octaves and a third, bassoons one octave lower etc.

>>68651001

>>68657333
upvoted

>>68652812
minimalism is all about subtle changes over time. You can repeat the same motif over and over again, but it needs to slowly change over time. Best way to do this is with dynamics and polyrhythms or phasing. Your piece has no dynamics, so definitely get some in there. It could start at p and become gradually louder, then gradually quieter, just for example.

Have a look at some steve Reich scores for inspiration. Rhythm is extremely important to him, and you'll see notes sliding backwards or forwards over bar lines over time, each bar the note gets played slightly earlier or later, and this combined with the notes on the beats, makes for interest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TKVpUSWCug

See how he uses the interplay of the same motif but in different interactions with itself. take note of his dynamics too.

Can any cellist help me out? I'm on mobile so I'll explain.

I'm trying to play UN Owen Was Her at 155bpm. The opening runs are sixteenth notes over and over in a pattern of C#, A#, F.

It's so same fast I can't find a workable fingerings. I can try half position, but the string changes from A to Do are way too hard at that speed. Switching to fourth position on D and G makes the string changes easier.

Finally, I could try playing everything on D strong by using my thumb on the F and stretching my huge hands. I just feel lost

>>68658841
you can solve this problem in on easy step 1. stop being a weeb

but good luck

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Just made this 2nd species counterpoint. Anything wrong?

>>68659637
Wait, noticed parallel fifths

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>>68659637
Fixed

>>68658841
way faster to play on a and d

>>68658841
Just go fast on two strings. Keep doing it and get faster

>>68659748
You shouldn't break the species by repeating notes.

>>68659748
probably too much species 1 for a species two counterpoint excercise., if you repeat a note you're essentially in species 1.

>>68658841
What about an octave or two up? Two might be pushing it (okay, it is pushing it) but distances are much less of an issue up there.

You could possibly try incorporating both the thumb and string changes. Extended 1 on Db (it's Db, by the way), then on the next string extended 3 on Bb, and then the thumb for F. That way the string changes will suit the 'melody' and meter (Db! Bb F, Db! Bb F, etc.) instead of work against it (Db Bb... F!! Db! Bb... F!! etc).
A minor sixth between 1 and the thumb is always a pain, though, and when you get to the C C C, are you going to do that with the thumb as well? You know what, screw that recommendation.

The thing I'd most strongly is limiting it to a single finger. That would be easier up an octave, at least depending on your skill level. Actually, up an octave, you could play it on the A string.

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>>68660239
>limiting it to a single finger
Jesus fucking Christ.

I meant limiting it to a single string.

>>68658462

>>68659996
>>68660015
How about repeating, but making an anticipation?

>>68661076
Not sure what part is playing the anticipation, but that would probably change the species too. I'd write in strict species two at first

>>68660956

>>68661799

>>68662473

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Q005ElC2Ew
>One singer leads by setting a short rhythmic pattern, which she repeats leaving brief silent intervals between each repetition. The other singer fills in the gap with another rhythmic pattern. The sounds used include voiced sounds as well as unvoiced ones, both through inhalation or exhalation. The first to run out of breath or be unable to maintain the pace of the other singer will start to laugh or simply stop and will thus be eliminated from the game

This is something.

A while back there was talk of writing a cello piece as a challenge. What happened to that?

>>68663371

>>68665612
Comp dies in my sleep bump

>>68666404
>>68666404

>>68667170
>>68667170

File: 1445469127740.jpg (165KB, 439x550px) Image search: [Google]

165KB, 439x550px

I know it's dead but

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNdowVQ9nxE
bumping with a cool piece harmonically. The tonality is unclear in the harmony, and doesn't really hit the I chord (and the melody is still somewhat vague until it hits the IV chord and you clearly hear "mi-fa-mi")
Does anyone know of any classical piece that are definitely in a specific tonality (like this one is for sure in C) but obfuscate that tonality?

>>68669779
bump

It didn't die!

>>68672328

Then again it's not alive either. I could try to finally do part 2 and 3 of the ear training stream for this weekend

the sorcerer's apprentice uses this type of obfuscation of the home key. he uses different transformations and alterations like invocations and hexes upon the main theme and progression.

>>68673721

>>68676434

>>68677395

>>68678695