/comp/ - Composition General

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since comp is literally dying i'll repost a rescore of a documentary I did for critique
https://clyp.it/dlgyxo5w

Bumpers. I'm stuck with my fugue thing, but I recently met someone who's got a bachelor degree in church music, I'll hopefully get me some pointers

>>68530098
The chromatic line is an interesting idea, but it's clashing quite a bit with the counter subjects. There are several Fugues in the wtp that use chromatic lines, although with slower note values, maybe have a look there?

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>>68544053

last segment of a string quartet i'm composing, still WIP. THe audio is from musescore

https://clyp.it/vibqhhqk

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repost bump, start of a fugue, with a separate C.F. going on in the bass voice (Gregorian chant of the latin Hail Mary). Still figuring out how to harmonize a modal bass line in a non-modal way.

https://clyp.it/4w45jlfi

>did a one hour long jazz and contemporary piano improv in college in a small stage
>some guy came up to me afterwards and complimented my playing
>says i sound like Debussy
>Debussy

wtf. if someone said I sounded like Bill Evans maybe I can stop hating myself but.. Debussy?!

>>68545603
Look at it this way: classically trained or average old-fashioned people don't know of any modern musicians, so Debussy is like the most modern thing ever they've heard. I've never ever heard about Bill Evans before I started reading a jazz theory book.

>>68545650

That guy was an RnB player, surely he knew some jazz..

>>68545968
you can always give it a positive twist. Most modern music players neo-classical music is like a more serious and sophisticated predecessor to their style.

yo comp, i'm working on this today.

https://clyp.it/1p50bl1b

how would you make it more musically interesting?

>>68546132
Your piece has several unique sections that seem to stand next to another. You could maybe carry over elements from a previous section into the next section, at least for a bit.

>>68544799
I'll look into it. I thought the chromatic line was ok (but the countersubject could probably be better) but there was an odd note at the end of the subject - not sure if I should keep it or go conventional.

since I don't know where else to ask this, does anyone have the notation (no idea how to say it in english) of this song?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37l7P5V1eXU

I'm thinking of doing a jazz rendition of some random christmas song for my school, I have got some classical guitars and a piano, but is there anyway I could include anything from a string orchestra? I was thinking of getting a flute in, because a flute is more of a jazz instrument than a violin somehow..

>>68546732
Jazz is not a matter of instrumentation. A jazz chord progression realized as 5 part voicing will sound jazzy, no matter whether it's played on a piano or by strings. For chrismassy song arrangements, I'd add some brass to support the melody and bass line.

>>68546703
I can write it down by ear when I'm home.

>>68546732
strings can work in jazz for sure, especially if you're doing christmas shit. Works well for that old show tune type stuff

I'm in a search of a good harmony book (could have counterpoint inside too). I have learned about it before but I have a lot of holes in my knowledge.

The pastebin is not good enough at this point.

I was going through Harmony by W. Piston but have heard it is actually not that good. I heard great things about "The Complete Musician" by Laitz. Does anybody maybe have the pdf he can share? That would be awesome.

Also, I went through musictheory and theoria websites yesterday and they are not really my level, I found them pretty easy, but there were some good things to read about. Anyway, not sure why people recommend them that much to people that want to read some books - I don't see how they can be compete which each other.

So, if anybody can link me to a good non-deprecated harmony (and counterpoint) book I would be really thankful.

>>68549147
what kind of harmony

>>68549269
General harmony book. starting from chords and inversions and going up from that. Don't know what types even there are, I always had just a general harmony. The one from Piston's book has what I want, it's just that it's probably not the best resource.

>>68549365
Cool, not sure if you were looking for common practice period stuff, or 20th century stuff, or jazz stuff, etc. I'd check out Kostka and Payne Tonal Harmony. There is probably a pdf out there

>>68549582
Ok, thx, will do, expecially the Payne one, I heard that Kostka is maybe too much and there are better resources, but I haven't actually tried it, though.

>>68549609
I wasn't aware of a separate book only by payne, but the later editions of Tonal Harmony are written by both Kostka and Payne. I'm not sure what you mean by "better resources", but I think that Tonal Harmony is fairly comprehensive. There might be easier to understand books, but don't be a pussy

>>68549654
Oh nvm, thought those were two separate books. I'll give it a try.

>>68549836
Oh shit, I actually realized the book I was searching for IS in the pastebin, I'll try that first, but it's fairly big, it even has counterpoint in it.

>>68549147
I might have the complete musician, will have a look when I'm home

>>68548686
it's for harmonica if that helps you

How can I improve in recognizing chord progressions?

https://www.hooktheory.com/theorytab/view/porter-robinson-and-madeon/shelter

It's actually interesting how "complicated" this music is. I mean, not really, but expected it to be simpler. I definitely can't hear those 9 chords. Thought I heard tonic kek.

>>68551061
Eh, I don't know much about the playing techniques of the instrument. Will a lead sheet do? (melody + chords) or should I do the full realization (accompany part written out)?

>>68551176
i think i don't need the full thing, just the melody would be more than great actually

>>68551246
I'll be home in 40 min. You could watch the recorded stream about ear training in the comp jewtube channel in the mean time.

>>68551118
A very straight forward way for pop songs is to identify the key (which you did) identify all the roots, and then ask yourself if it's diatonic or not, and if you hear extensions. You might miss stuff like the 9 on the Fmaj, and you might miss inversions (which are rarer in pop music)

And definitely don't be surprised by the complexity of some of these EDM tracks. A lot of them are coming from a jazz influenced canon.

>>68551118
what >>68552190 said. Though the iii7 seem more like rootless Imaj9 to me.

>>68552190
>>68552533
Thanks guys.

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>>68553041
About that IV9, the 9 is kinda questionable, since it's just a short passing note in the melody voice and not a consistent part of the chord. Therefore you'd be correct if you were to skip the 9.

>>68551246
how's this kinda format shown in the pic?

>>68553182
Yeah, I thought of that too.

Btw, I'm also trying to figure out how they thought of this and while playing it's actually pretty simple, just play a 7, move everything in parallel by a second down, then remove a 1 and then a 7 from chords and a few more to finish the cadence and again. I mean, they are actually just playing a lot with 7 chords and everything sounds more complicated than it is. I bet that my works would also turn out to be "complicated" when analysed, I just don't think about it much.

I need to practice though, apart from V, I and maybe IV, I don't really get what is being played. I can figure it out sometimes from the bass or a melody but that's still not enough. I just don't immediately "feel" it.

>>68553251
well, get used to the most common progressions, starting with
IV - V - I and all its variations (interchangable IV vs II, V vs VII), all kinds of cadences like authentic vs plagal cadences. Then sequences (desc. 5th, asc. 5th, Pachelbel), and you should be pretty much good to go.

When chords go beyond extension 7, they become highly ambiguous, as they contain lots of different triads, and picking the most adequate one for its context is the more challenging task.

how do you make fugues

>>68553405
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHW1I8T0caI

>>68553837
Nothing but meme kids here.

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>>68551246
I'm done. No lyrics though.

http://lilybin.com/pbbvs7/1

download and playback as shown in pic.

>>68555077
use this link:
http://lilybin.com/pbbvs7/2

some slight corrections. gn8 comp, live to see another day.

>>68549147
Complete Musician: https://www.dropbox.com/s/j1t870oum0yyl2d/The%20Complete%20Musician%20An%20Integrated%20Approach%20to%20Tonal%20Theory%2C%20Analysis%2C%20and%20Listening.pdf?dl=0

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Mini challenge from 2 threads ago.

Here's the continuo voice of this choral, record yourself playing/singing the melody voice (and optionally the other choir voices) on top of the continuo.

https://clyp.it/4ej3lok4

>>68555988
Mozart is awful.

What do you think of this guy?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bl5TUw7sUBs

>>68556295
has a nice sound but is pretty one dimensional as a musician. It comes across in this piece more, which really doesn't develop, but other pieces of his have been better.

>>68556186
that's Bach

>>68555988
>https://clyp.it/4ej3lok4
Fixed solfege right? Do would be E

>>68558109
That's not fixed solfege. Fixed solfege has Do fixed on C.

You're referring to Tonic/movable Do solfege if Do is the root of the key, which is E in this case.

>found a book of excerpts from pre-renaissance music theory texts in my library
This is seriously the coolest shit.

>>68558275
does it cover stuff like clausulae?

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>>68553405
Read the foundation studies in fugue PDF in the OP folders.

You start with a subject, the write an answer. Then write a countersubject to compliment the answer.

Quick question, if I play a 13 chord, with the 13 NOT as the top most note, would the chord still be a 13 chord? For example, given the chord with notes, from low to top, G F B E Ab, would it qualify as a G flat 9 13 chord? If not, what else would it be? I mean I could write it as E/G

>>68559089
yes, 13 does not have to be on top. In Dominant chords, you can add the 13 ad lib.

If you play that chord as E/F, you'd be playing an upper structure VI voicing of G7b9, which is the 3 and 7 of G in the left hand <F B>, and a major chord of the VI of G, E major, in the right hand <E G# B>. Just your chord without the root.

>>68555077
>>68555242
holy shit you are my hero now

i grant you one wish, use it well

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I am in university for composition and that is going well mark wise. Except I'm not getting any ideas or feeling inspired at all on my own instrument (electric guitar) can anyone help? I feel inspired when composing for piano and I'm good at what we do in music theory but I play guitar and if I heard anyone else play it I would hate it

>>68559193

Thanks man. Also, is it okay to use both alterations of 5 and 9 in a given chord, they may or may not be spaced together?

>>68558360
It could, but I've only read into a few sections so far.

I've been reading a text by Cleonides, which sort of covers the basics of Greek music (simplifying Aristoxenus' text, which is also in the book but is nigh unreadable for me right now). Cleonides also requires some coaxing of the information out, mostly out of terminology though.

I've also been reading a text by Odo of Cluny, which sort of outlines how to make a rudimentary stringed instrument called a monochord, and mathematically derive the locations of the diatonic scale on it.
>The open string is gamma. 1/9th the length between gamma and the other end is A. 1/9th the length between A and the other end is B. 1/4th the length between gamma and the other end is C. 1/4th the length between A and the other end is D, etc.
This is used as a pedagogical tool for singers (Odo of Cluny does not have nice things to say about self-taught singers), but it's the first instance of letters A through G being used to denote pitches. They're letters because originally, they were being used geometrically.

>1/2 the length between gamma and the other end is G.
>1/2 the length between A and the other end is a.
>1/2 the length between C and the other end is c.
>1/2 the length between B and the other end is... the natural sign?
>1/4 the length between F and the other end is "b".
>tfw B and B flat were being mixed up even way back then

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>>68559645
occasional bumps on the /comp/ thread when it's about to fall off page 9 will do.

I googled the instrument, it's called Garmon and is transposing in A, so if you're playing that very instrument, you need the transposed notation.

http://lilybin.com/pbbvs7/4

>pic related

if not, stick with version 2 of that link

>>68559963
yes, that's the alt chord (see altered scale) right there. But I wouldn't use b9 and #9 or b5 and #5 at the same time.

>>68559966
ahh, good ol times with their simple mathematics.

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>>68559963
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altered_chord#Jazz

>Altered chords may include both a flattened and sharpened form of the altered fifth or ninth, e.g. G7(b5#5b9); however, it is more common to use only one such alteration per tone, e.g. G7(b5b9), G7(b5#9), G7(#5b9), or G7(#5#9). in practice, many fake books do not specify all the alterations; the chord is typically just labelled as G7alt, and the alteration of 9ths, 11ths and 13ths is left to the artistic discretion of the comping musician.

>>68560173
>>68560084

Sometimes I like to use whole tone scales to alter a dominant, wouldn't that be basically playing both alterations of 5?

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>>68560196
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altered_scale

whole tone scale and altered scale share the same upper half. Anyways, you could regard the b5 as #11 or #4 as well

Is reading sheet music even necessary for your typical musician? It was originally made so music can be passed around to the next generation, but now that we have audio recordings, reading sheet music for the typical musician seems obsolete to me.

>>68560268
Is reading english even necessary for your typical voice actor? It was originally made so text can be passed around to the next generation, but now that we have audio recordings, reading english for the typical voice actor seems obsolete to me.

>>68560265

Hmm let's see, sharp 11 of C would be F#, sharp 5 is G sharp. Then the dominant 7 is a flat B. With the rest of the notes unaltered, I get a whole tone scale.

Now that makes sense..

>>68559733
Pls halp

>>68560476
It's a psychological / mental thing. You always know your own instrument best and are way more sensitive to involuntary disappointing passages in your playing.

I bet lots of people here feel the same. How do you want to keep improving, if you're not critical towards yourself?

>>68559733

I'm not a music student or anything, just a regular electric guitar player so if you find my advice to be plebby feel free to ignore it.

When writing lines for the electric I find it useful to study other instrument's lines and try to adopt the way the proceed with their runs. Mainly because i find the electric guitar to be a very "pattern" and "shape" based instrument and sometimes it's hard to break out of this box. Just like how many guitarists just employ the same pentatonic shape again and again. There are some notes that simply don't fit nicely with the fretting hand, they aren't exactly intuitive but we shouldn't ignore it.

>>68561774

>>68560194
Wikipedia really sucks for jazz theory. b5#5 is most likely b5 b13. The only time you get two alterations per scale degree is when you use b9 and #9 together which is common but not really in piano music.

Anyone willing to walk me through setting up kontakt, the Toccata vst and FL studio via Skype? I'm kinda coming from actual pen and paper, and am pretty overwhelmed by all that tech.

>>68562983
But doesn't b13 imply, that you still can have a regular 5? Or should that be clarified by the b5 already?

>>68563510
You can't really have more than one "5" degree, so you can have #11 #5, b5 b13, but saying b5 and #5 is kind of silly.

>>68563510
>>68563602
Did some more thinking and I think the only place where it would be a good idea to describe two scale degree 5's is in an octatonic symmetric thing, for instance the scale C D Eb F Gb G# A B is probably best spelt like that