is there any other genre that can even begin to compare to the

>>68344783
no there isn't

>>68345037

boom, there you have it, solid proof:

metal rules... \m/

>>68344783
Metal is the fedora of music.

Classy as fuck if done right. Cringeworthy if done goofed.

>>68344783
>Boring stuff like brutal death metal
nice b8 m8

>>68344783
>>68345315
Heavy metal, power metal, thrash metal and gothic metal are pathetic and ridiculous language of music. Most interesting and valid things are into the experimental side of metal (black metal, avant-garde, post-metal), otherwise metal is truly cringe material indeed.

>>68345404
>black metal
>not cringe

yeah ok

>>68345514
>b-b-but my aryan heritage!

i mean, this is just incredible. beat this from any other genre...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjWky-bnsgM

When it's done right, it brings out the best of what popular music has entailed in terms of music that is both hooks based and visceral in nature. That being said getting metal right has never really been that easy. At one end you musicians and fans who started taking the aesthetic and imagery too seriously around the 90s. Before that the only people who did were the haters of metal now both musicians/fans and haters do it which has led to the metal cringe factor going way up. Caring about image/aesthetic over the actual music leads to bad results within the music itself, too. Then on the other end you have metal getting dominated by gimmicky attempts at combining non-metal elements into metal. While some of the bands that use non metal elements do it in a way where nothing's diluted, most just end up sounding weak on both the metal and non-metal end thus resulting in music that's mostly "I don't like metal but I do enjoy this album"-core.

Metal has too much posturing. When I listen to punk and jazz, I feel like I'm getting something genuine, and it has a stronger emotional impact because of that. When I listen to metal, I feel like they're putting on a show.

My favorite metal band is Amebix. I recently went through a period where I was fairly obsessed with them. But the thing is, more than a metal band, they're a crust punk band. You can feel what they're performing is genuine and straightforward. Amebix are the biggest influence on Neurosis, who are a great band. But while Neurosis are masters at what they do, you can feel that the atmospherics and flourishes on their music are there for the show. They're there for entertainment. They don't mean anything. Gojira's another extremely talented band, but it's like they can't get through a fucking song without doing silly guitar noodling, again, for the show. I LOVE Bathory, especially Blood Fire Death, but again, it's all about the goofy "evil" show. In fact, in black metal often times the goofier, more ridiculous groups like Carpathian Forest, Dark Funeral, and Deathcrush-era Mayhem are the best. At least there are no pretensions to what they do - they're just balls to the wall, and that's a lot more effective than the bullshit posturing of other bands in the genre that try to be somehow more intellectual.

>>68346114
I agree mostly.

Punk and jazz are awful examples of "genuine" though. Especially crust punk.

While Neurosis and Gojira are great examples of when metal goes wrong, Blood Fire Death is a fuck awful one. BFD's thematically (in terms of track names, lyrics, and image) about war/vikings/norse myth stuff and not goofy evil show. When talking musically, none of the extra flourishes like the clean parts and horse samples and all that take away from the main riff attack which is still genuine as fuck metal throughout.

You mention Dark Funeral as not being pretentious when they were literally LaVey Satanists. They fell for the meme not necessarily pushed by the metal guys themselves but the mainstream media's portrayal of the earlier Norwegian Black metal scene. Dark Funeral is also another example of a group caring for image/aesthetic over the actual music as they made pretty shitty black metal trying to be like a less technically and energetically interesting version of Emperor/Immortal/Gorgoroth.

>>68346700
I'd argue that the viking thing is still a show, though. But still, a great album.
As for crust, I think Amebix are fairly unique for the genre - honestly, most of the early crust bands were just as dumb as the UK82 bands, but Rob "The Baron" Miller has always done really genuine, passionate work IMO, and it's only now represented among other crust punk bands with the "neocrust" bands mostly from Russia and Germany, who bring in elements of screamo and black metal.

I do think there are a lot of extremely genuine jazz musicians and punk bands, but it may be that I have a narrow focus with those genres - with jazz I like post-bop people like Charles Mingus and Ornette Coleman, who are very emotionally driven, and with punk I like really earnest bands like (again) Amebix, Jawbreaker, Fugazi, Ampere, The Ex, and Portraits of Past... I don't really see how anyone could argue those bands aren't genuine.

>>68346871
>I'd argue that the viking thing is still a show, though.
Doesn't matter, point being that you're letting non-musical things like aesthetic, lyrics, the musicians' lives, etc. affect your personal enjoyment of something.

That and that many genres of music have their fare share of posturing. It's bound to happen in the post-modern world.

Being "genuine" or whatever doesn't really matter. Having music that sounds good is what matters. Miles Davis by this measure of being "genuine" wouldn't be considered all that great especially post-IASW where a lot of the emotive technique improv was eschewed for a more set composition style, but who cares that music is fucking great. Kid Cudi, based on what we know about what's really happening to him, released something disturbingly genuine with Speedin' Bullet 2 Heaven. Doesn't change that it's considered an awful sounding album where it feels like nobody tried.

>>68344783
>boring stuff like brutal death metal
Gorguts, Demilich, Cryptopsy, Behemoth, etc

>is there any other genre so varied and amazing?
Noise Rock and Post Punk come close.

>>68345404
Those genres may be lack luster but their are plenty of good bands among the fray.

>>68346114
>I feel like they're putting on a show
Well, to be fair that's kinda the point in some cases. Honestly, punk has just as much posturing as metal.

>>68344783
this thread is 10/10 bate
genuinely good
I'm proud

Classic rock>metal

>>68347282
>repeating the same couple riffs for an entire song cuz that's all the musician's limited creativity allowed for
>superior to metal

>>68347282
I prefer bands that incorporate elements of both genres, like Black Sabbath, KISS, and Avenged Sevenfold.

>>68347161
It may matter how good the song is, but I think in music, like literature, it really comes through when a musician creates something that is really relevant to them. Kid Cudi is actually a good example of this - pop rap is one of the most notoriously disingenuous, postured genres, but Kid Cudi's made a lot of the greatest pop rap songs, and I think part of their quality may be that they feel heartfelt... even if the song you mention is terrible, the personal significance of his music I think elevates the songs he's done that have been good. I think people's bullshit detector applies to everything, especially art. So while mastery of composition can create some really amazing works, it rarely holds as much emotional weight to the listener.

ITT: Pards

>>68344783
i agree op

>>68344783
kay why ess

>>68347240

maybe somewhat bait, but im alao legitimately curious if theres any other genre that incorporates as many influences as metal, especially orchestral ones.

>>68347686
But those bullshit detectors are often wrong though (you had it happen to yourself in this topic) because the only way one can really determine is through doing research on each specific artist and their process of making music.

>So while mastery of composition can create some really amazing works, it rarely holds as much emotional weight to the listener.
But how something holds emotional weight can't be determined by how "genuine" it is. The emotional investment isn't coming from the art, it's coming from the listener. Justin Beiber has done a lot of Make A Wish stuff because those kids feel like they have an emotional attachment to his music. Whether or not we think of his music as vapid or disingenuous doesn't matter and doesn't take away that kids connection to that music.

Not to mention that such approaches to art criticism takes away from commissioned art like Bach's Mass In B Minor where the artist didn't have the kind of personal investment being asked of being "genuine."

It also takes away from genres like metal or an artist like MF DOOM because they don't want to approach their music by directly talking about personal stuff. That's how you get people that hate MF DOOM because "he isn't hard" or "he's just some backpacker guy" when he's had a far tougher life than most rappers portrayed as "hard" when it shouldn't matter period.

>>68348310

i agrree, genuineness is in the eye of the beholder. proper composition, even when done without 'emotional attaachment' can evoke an emtoional response from the listener.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvYRYCIAKZo

haggard is almost more of an orchestra with guitar and drums than a band with orchestral elements.