Why is nu-metal, metalcore, djent, etc not considered metal?

>>68297217
>There has got to be a legitimate reason behind it other than metalfags not wanting to associate with the fags who like these genres

wrong

Metal, like any other genre, is a family. Families are tied by blood; they inherit traits genetically while still presenting new elements.

There is, quite simply, no bloodline connection between metal and those styles you are naming, except perhaps djent, but in that particular case it's so diluted it's more like a distant political cousin.

>>68297382
This kind of psudo-intelligent, pretentious dribble is exactly what is expected from a metalfag trying to explain why these genres aren't real meal.

>>68297217
metal is probably the only genre where this happens. even punks who like d-beat and crust and shit could admit that poppunk is in the same music family. metalfags are the only people autistic enough to suggest metalcore has nothing to do with metal, even when to someone who doesn't know the genre they are indistinguishable.

>>68297496
I think what he was trying to say was that those particular styles didn't evolve from other metal genres. Metalfags say nu-metal is just RATM style rap rock with more distortion and metalcore is post-hardcore with more riffs. I don't know why djent wouldn't count but whatevs. I don't agree with this opinion but that's my understanding of it.

>its loud so it must be metal

jesus christ i bet you think grunge is metal too

>>68297686
And yet here you are not explaining to me why they aren't metal.

If they aren't metal, tell me why. I legitimately want to know what classifies them differently from "real" metal.

>>68297217
Metal Archives are full of autists
They think Dream Theater and Soundgarden are more metal than Slipknot and Converge, Move on

>>68297822
djent is usually considered metal from most of what ive seen, some people dont consider it metal because of its metalcore influences

metalcore and deathcore contains pig squeal a shit ton more then any other metal as well as synthesizers and other instruments. also the focus on hot topic and obey t shirts in the alt metal culture is really different then vanilla metal. Classical metalheads are antisocial as fuck

same with nu metal

whatever the case the vast majority of people believe theyre metal hence the namess

>>68297686
>implying Alice in Chains aren't metal

>>68297382
Holy fuck metalfags are pathetic

>>68297921
>AiC
>grunge

jesus christ i bet you think anthrax is thrash metal

>>68297916
>metal is all about image
This is what I got from what you posted.

Plenty of metal bands "pig squeal" more than most metalcore bands I know and there are tons of metal bands that use synthesizers and "other instruments" so those two points are moot as fuck.

So your only actual argument is that they don't have the image needed to be classified as "metal".

Pathetic.

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To me, metalcore is for poser teens who have only seen the darkness from a long distance.

Metal, though, is for souls who have made the darkness their home.

Metal is defined by a specific style of riffing, though.

Nu-Metal doesn't have metal riffing. It's just louder, heavier alternative rock with distortion, combined with hiphop elements.

Metalcore doesn't have metal riffing. It's a style of hardcore punk with metal guitar tones.

Djent's harder to define since its branched off metal and nothing else, but considering djent in its most vanilla form is less defined by riffing and more by chugs it's hardly metal either. Djent still gets a "pass" as metal from me solely because it came directly from metal.

>>68298015
>muh riffs
What about atmoshit though? No one would argue it isn't metal even though it has no riffs

>>68298014
see
>>68297993

>>68297993
>Plenty of metal bands "pig squeal" more than most metalcore bands I know and there are tons of metal bands that use synthesizers and "other instruments" so those two points are moot as fuck.
im talking about generalizations, come on man

>implying im wrong about the image thing
face it genres extend to more than just their sonic qualities. Years released, geographic location, record label all influence the genre

>>68297686
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTS7XqjvsPU

BTFO SHAKE MY DAMN BAKA

>>68298090
>queen
>metal

The closest I've seen to a legitimate reason for excluding certain subgenres is where their influence lies. In the case of metalcore and deathcore, it's because they're more rooted in hardcore punk than metal. (Or so says them - I think some bands certainly are, but a lot clearly are closer to their metal roots.) I've never heard nu metal get rejected as a metal style but the same argument could work here, that or they just don't like it and want a reason to ignore it. As if not listening is simply not an option.

Djent tends to get rejected as a style because, according to them, you can't make a whole subgenre literally based around one hand technique.

I just think it's all silly.

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>>68298077
You conflated the two, but I assure you it's entirely different.

Metalcore is like punk. It comes from teen angst about not getting their way.

TRVE METAL is like a Beksinski painting. It comes from witnessing the evil horrors life has to offer, then sinking yourself deeper and deeper into them until you feel right at home among them.

It's about the inspiration, not the image.

>>68298165
>it's not about the image
>it's about the image

dipshit

>>68297993
>implying its not about the image

>>68298187
>christian music isnt a real genre because its about the image

this is you

>>68298187
are you just pretending to be the least intuitive person alive or what

>>68297916
>Classical metalheads are antisocial as fuck
shit i guess i better tell all my friends to fuck off and use exclusively black clothes in order to properly listen to metal now......................

metalcore is a subgenre of hardcore punk

it's not a question of quality

some metalcore or deathcore has more metal influence than others

even the punks will tell you that converge is a hardcore band

>>68298216
Except it isn't. Just because iTunes has it labeled as a genre doesn't mean it already is.

>>68298058
A large chunk of atmoshit isn't metal.

>atmoshit that's metal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JQJ9_AZj5A

>atmoshit that isn't metal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUMutdbzLj4

>>68298264
explain to me how christian music isnt a genre

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>>68298187
The image comes from the inspiration. Metalcore artists can't go as dark because they haven't experienced enough darkness to know how dark things can get.

It's the difference between being inspired by a high school breakup and being inspired by seeing your friend eating your other friend's brain after he committed suicide.

Metalcore hasn't sunk into the filth and despair enough to craft a work of darkness worthy enough to be called metal. It's a soul crucible thing kids wouldn't understand.

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>>68298058
Atmospheric black "metal"'s largely fallen into the trap where they're making glorified ambient music and not metal, desu. Most of the genre has devolved into repeating the same tremolos for 10 minutes and has become more monotonous and riffless than drone. Of course there is atmospheric black metal that hasn't fallen into this riffless, non-metal rabbithole, though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAUtCa13V38

>>68298082
>Years released, geographic location, record label all influence the genre

no those are all important but genre is specifically just the sonic qualities. The other stuff is part of the context and scene the music is in but not the genre

>>68298279
It's just not. It's a target market or a music scene but it's not a genre. You can have christian hip-hop, christian rock, christian folk. Even if all the types played the same shows, used the same imagery, had the same fans they are different genres.

>>68298279
Gospel is a genre because it has a distinct style to it and so is Gregorian Chants. But neither of these two types of music are part of a genre called "Christian Music" because you can't base a genre of music off of inspiration. Are they both Christian Music? Yes they are, but they aren't part of a genre called "Christian Music"

>>68298316
That still doesn't make it "not trve metal". Just because they sing about stupid teenage drama, doesn't make them any "less" metal than Metallica, Deathspell Omega, or Acid Bath because a music genre is based on how a band sounds. If Megadeth can write a song about killing a girl who rejected you and still be considered "metal", why can't a metalcore band do the same? But it's not like me telling you this will matter because you already have a preconceived notion that a musical genre is based on things other than the sound of music.

Seriously, you metalfags will go through some serious mental gymnastics to try and separate from those you deem "unworthy".

>>68298316
In laughing at how autistic you sound

>>68298447
literally look up the definition of music genre man lol

>>68298014
>>68298165
>>68298316
I know youre joking but isnt amazing that there are people who actually think like this?

Why do people claim metalcore is metal again?

It's a subgenre of hardcore punk with metal guitar tones. If I were to play jazz music with electric guitars and distortion, that doesn't make it metal either. Genres are defined by how they're played.

>>68298504
Because some metalcore bands are more metal than hardcore.

>>68298504
its loud and edgy

>>68298457
>because you can't base a genre of music off of inspiration.
what

>>68298316
>muh filth despair and darkness
You do know that that argument only applies to a few metal genres (Black Metal and some Death or Thrash Metal). Metal doesn't have to be depressing and seriously dark. That being said, MOST metalcore bands do suck ass (although those that suck are mostly leaning more towards their post-hardcore influences than towards metal). But seriously, don't pretend like Trve Black Metal is the only metal genre that's ever existed.

>>68298561
You can't. A genre is literally the classification of something based on the content within it.

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>>68298457
No different than OG rappers vs poser rappers. You have to prove you're in that life before you get respect.

>>68298461
No shit, I'm an INTP-T with aspergers, of course I sound autistic

>>68298483
I was actually completely serious.

>>68298631
come on man, we are talking about genre as it is commonly understood, you cant just call me edgy/autistic when i answer your question with respect to how the average person conceptualizes the word "genre"

>>68298657
>No different than OG rappers vs poser rappers.
At least they are both considered rappers.

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>>68298681

>>68298748
ie the textbook definition

>>68298686
And metalcore has metal in the name. Hence the audible connection but the poser distinction.

>>68298777
This isn't an argument about if metalcore is "poser" or not. This is an argument on if they are metal. Sure metalcore is poser as fuck, just like how Pop Punk is considered poser, but as >>68297605 said, pop punk is still classified as punk.

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>>68298766
I legitimately have no idea to what you are even trying to imply.

>>68298657
You've really gotta do some introspective work my dude

>>68298840
A music genre is a conventional category that identifies some pieces of music as belonging to a shared tradition or set of conventions.[1] It is to be distinguished from musical form and musical style, although in practice these terms are sometimes used interchangeably.

>>68298871
>wikipedia definition

Ok so now I know you're retarded.

>>68298926
>op asks why alt metal and metal have tensions
>answer the question and explain the popular definition of genre and why the difference of culture and influences can change the genre even if they sound similar.
>get shit on

why dont you tell me the answer then

>>68299062
>op asks why alt metal and metal have tensions
>gives a wikipedia definition of genre and a bullshit explanation without real citations of why genres are more than just how they sound
>gets properly shit on

The burden of proof is still on you.

Also as an added fuck you, if I were to play Mayhem to everyone at my university the "popular" opinion on what genre it is would be either "screamo" or "death metal" so by your logic, Mayhem would be "screamo" or "death metal".

>>68299185
i gave my answer. What do you think?

its not that complicated metalcore is part of hardcore and metalcore's primary influence lies in hardcore

some metalcore has a lot more metal influence and an argument can be made on a case by case bases if a band is metal

most metalcore, at least the really popular stuff, is post-hardcore with a metal aesthetic

>>68297217
cause they don't have long hair and terrible personal hygiene.

>>68300309
You kidding me? Jonathan Davis looks gross as fuck, dude.

>>68297605
>>68298817


That depends. "pop-punk" was slapped on a lot of alternative rock if not outright pop groups in the late 90s early 2000s, from Avril Lavigne to Simple Plan.

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>>68300329
>tfw my name is Jonathan Davis
>tfw /mu/ suddenly became too real today

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>le posers

>muh darkness

They should bump the minimum posting age to 25.

>>68298504
because a lot of what is labeled metalcore in the metal community is as influenced by melodic death metal and thrash as it is hardcore.

>>68300329
I was referign more to metalcore and djent but fair point.

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this is a pretty good metalcore album.

>>68298316
are you saying that something has to be dark in order to be metal? that doesn't make sense.