Electronic is not a genre. Electronic music is not a genre. Electronica

Yup. I'm pretty sure everyone agrees, OP. Who was your post targeted at?

Ok, thanks for letting us know m8

>>68275124
It's robot music.

>>68275124
Electronic may not be a genre, but suicide is always an option, OP.

>>68275124
turny?

>>68275181
I thought he was a guy? He looks pretty hot.

Shoegaze is not a genre

>EDM and IDM are not genres
Then what are they?

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>>68275193

Are you saying that as compared to something like 'Industrial' to say that edm is only a broad category electronic genres?

>>68275211
But that's literally what genres are. Umbrella terms for different artists, albums and songs that have a similar sound.

>>68275228
>splittercore sounds like dub techno

>>68275124
Its called dubstep, duh

>>68275251
>I love dupstep. Like Aphex Twin.

daily reminder EDM is the only good genre of music and /mu/ needs to accept that

wake up faggots and stop hating on something because you dont understand how good it is

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wUt1fIymB4

>>68275124
>Electronic is not a genre.
>Electronic music is not a genre.
Wrong. That's like saying Classical is not a genre.

>>68275124
That's debatable, I guess. Why don't we weed out the definitive not-genres first?
Witchhouse comes to mind.
Or vaporwave.

>>68275942
Because it isn't

>>68275202
There is literally nothing wrong with nu-jazz/downtempo.

>>68275950
What would you call witch house then?

>>68276143
Implying that there is a thing to call anything, be it witch house or something else, is where you are mistaken.

>>68276143
>The music is heavily influenced by chopped and screwed hip-hop soundscapes, industrial and noise experimentation.

EDM and IDM are definitely genres. IDM especially. EDM might be a time and instrumentation type sound, so not very specific as a term, but it's at least as useful as "nu-metal".

If you blindfolded me and put on an electronic dance music track id be able to tell you what year it came out. For me if it sounds 2008-2015, isnt pure dubstep, not a precursor genre like house or DNB, has that odd YouTube generation hybrid quality I can't quite describe - I mean EDM just has a sound to it. Even if one of those Monsters guys puts out a straight trance song, you can tell it's a Monstercat guy and that it's not trance from 2002. It has to di with sound selection maybe.


IDM is as useful a term as any - how is this contentious?

>>68275228
But electronic music doesn't have a similar sound. All "electronic music" refers to is music of any genre composed mostly with computers.

>>68276222
>IDM is as useful a term as any - how is this contentious?
because how are boards of canada and squarepusher in any way similar

>>68275965
Music from the classical and Baroque periods sound similar enough that if you like one you probably like the other and the general term "Classical music" makes sense if someone to ask what your favorite kind of music is.

>>68276247
Yeah, it's an umbrella term, just like "electronic music" or "EDM", not a genre.

>>68276233

Alright I see where you're going. I think it'd be a mistake to label BOC as IDM personally, although I've certainly seen them described as such.

BOC are of the same era as Aphex - couldn't you hear a similarity between Selected Ambient Works and any given BOC song? Aphex material from The RDJ album might be a better example of straight-on IDM, but if Aphex is IDM and BOC make music that sounds similar to some Aphex Twin material - that's just how music journalism works.

You ever notice how dissimilar Krautrock bands sound from one another? Or like I said before, nu-metal? Disturbed sounded nothing like Limp Bizkit nor SOAD at all, but they were of an era together. You can connect them sonically better to one another than you could to Iron Maiden or Slayer. So it's a new generation then! Give it s name.

>>68276359
>Artists that appeared in the first discussions on the list included Autechre, Atom Heart, LFO and Rephlex Records artists such as Aphex Twin, µ-ziq and Luke Vibert; plus artists such as The Orb, Richard H. Kirk and The Future Sound of London, and even artists like System 7, William Orbit, Sabres of Paradise, Orbital, Plastikman and Björk.

>By the end of 1996, Boards of Canada and the Schematic Records label were among the usual topics of discussion, alongside perennial favorites like Aphex Twin and the Warp repertoire

>>68276380
That's a terrible list - plastikman and bjork? Also don't copy and paste shit without your own commentary or something, that's just... Churlish

go away turny

>>68276449
its THE list

Genres are a tools only plebs use.

There are only 2 genres:
Patrician music and Music I don't listen to.

>>68276482
It's just something you copied and pasted from Wikipedia. Plastikman is techno, some people even try to pigeonhole him as the poster boy for Detroit techno.

Calling Bjork any of these genres is fucking psychotic - I don't even really see how you could label bjork with any dance music tag, she's a singer.

If bjork is IDM because she uses fancy pants forward thinking Art Bleeps then so is fucking Radiohead or Nine Inch Nails.

Don't copy and paste things from Wikipedia dude that's just gross

>>68276666
It's THE list from the IDM mailing list the name comes from, it's not debatable

>>68276492
ur so cool

>>68275124
THANK

YOU

>>68276666
digitals confirm

>>68276224

Well you said it yourself

They all sound computery, so it's a genre

>>68276224
>All "electronic music" refers to is music of any genre composed mostly with computers.
Oh hey look, you found the defining characteristic of the genre electronic music

>>68276224
>mostly with computers

Or Telharmonium, Theremin, Ondes Martenot, Trautonium, Hammond organ and Novachord, Analogue synthesis, Modular synthesizers, Integrated synthesizers, Polyphony, Tape recording, Sound sequencer, Digital synthesis, Sampling, MIDI, The Reactable, Percussa AudioCubes, Kaossilator, Eigenharp, The Xth Sense, AlphaSphere, Circuit bending, Modular synthesizers

>>68276912
>John Cage and Young Thug are the same genre

>>68275165
Lol oh God. Are you middle aged?

>>68275124
I wanna bang her while she has the pacifier.

>"X" shouldn't be called a genre even though I can point out all music that belongs to "X"
>it's just combining elements from other genres!

genres are just descriptions, stop being so damn upset about them

>>68276936
>Or Telharmonium, Theremin, Ondes Martenot, Trautonium, Hammond organ and Novachord, Analogue synthesis, Modular synthesizers, Integrated synthesizers, Polyphony, Tape recording, Sound sequencer, Digital synthesis, Sampling, MIDI, The Reactable, Percussa AudioCubes, Kaossilator, Eigenharp, The Xth Sense, AlphaSphere, Circuit bending, Modular synthesizers
Can't you just say "or with Minimoogs, hardware MIDI sequencers, Juno-106s, DX7s, tape machines, Euroracks and ancient electronic instruments" instead ?
Are you a fucking PDP-11 ?

>>68276969
what if she dropped it?

would you just stop?

>>68277090
>>68276936
Also
>Polyphony
Polyphony is not an instrument, nimrod.

>>68276666
nice quads m8

but yeah these anons are right, IDM list used to discuss all kinds of stuff, derrick may, basic channel, black dog, cylob, bjork (yes bjork), depeche mode (yes depeche mode)

it only started to be seen as a genre once the term escaped into the wider world, which was 97/98 ish

>>68277083
But why use that as a genre when there are lots of more precise descriptors (aka actual genres)

>>68275124
I would

>>68276666
>Plastikman is techno, some people even try to pigeonhole him as the poster boy for Detroit techno.
have you heard of FUSE? he's one of the originators of IDM m8

>Calling Bjork any of these genres is fucking psychotic - I don't even really see how you could label bjork with any dance music tag, she's a singer.
her beats are IDM tracks produced by IDM musicians

>then so is fucking Radiohead or Nine Inch Nails
radiohead get called IDM rock quite often

>>68275134
yeah literally everyone on this board knows this.

>>68277150
because you "actual" "genres" are niche scenes that no one but the most shallow of shallow people gives a fuck about

>>68277636
What's the difference between "EDM" and electronic dance music genres like house, techno, electro, etc.?

>>68277660
the latter is for people too cool to admit that they listen to EDM

>>68277660
Nothing, EDM is an umbrella term. All those genres are EDM.

File: EDM fans.jpg (245KB, 500x375px) Image search: [Google]

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>>68277660
EDM has become synonymous with whats played at huge American festivals like Electric Daisy Carnival™ and Ultra Music Festival™

>>68277690
See:
>>68277699

>>68277699
your pic might as well be from an early 90's british breakbeat hardcore rave or a dutch gabber rave

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>>68277720
Not at all.

>>68277720
there was never that much skin on display back then, unless they were podium dancers

>>68277660
EDM is a marketing term created by american media and labels less than a decade ago

>>68277705
Yeah and that music is EDM. Doesn't make good techno/house etc. not EDM

>>68277660
>>68277669
>>68277690
>>68277699
>>68277705
>>68277720


Just stop. There's hardly any difference in quality between what /bleep/ listens to and Monstercat or Top 40 EDM. Same thing with the crowd of people attending the raves. Just a bunch of wastoids on molly.

leave IDM out of this.

>>68275124
except EDM and IDM are genres, what the fuck are you talking about

>>68277753
Like theres no difference between Beach Boys, Frank Zappa, Creed and Nickelback, its all just rock.

>>68277771
*umbrella terms for many different genres

>>68277772
The Beach Boys and Frank Zappa are acclaimed by Scaruffi.

Electronica is just a subgenre of rock as much as punk or metal are. Via the proxy of modern R&B.

R&B simply set the stage for rock'n'roll to emerge. What was missing (the great drawback of rhythm'n'blues) was true creativity. Rhythm'n'blues (whether vocal or instrumental) was anchored to well-defined structures, that performers challenged only marginally. There were no significant attempts to create free-form structures, to integrate idioms of other cultures, to enlarge the orchestration to new instruments, to radically alter any of the fundamental dogmas of black-music performance. That was indeed the revolution of rock music, which will progressively introduce the traditional European values of innovation and progress into the archaic values of African personal expression.

Indeed, the majority of EDM is a reversion to the stagnation of 40s R&B and 70s Disco. In 30 years time it will seem just as embarrassing and non-artistic as these. Is there contemporary patrician electronic music? In a word, absolutely. But it's represented by avant-garde electroacoustic improvisation and experimental developments using progeria like Supercollider, not by some hack in a warehouse blasting an endless I-I-V-I progression over a disco sample.

Punk 9/10 album: Husker Du - Zen Arcade
Metal 9/10 album: Type O Negative - Deep, Slow, Hard
Hip hop and Electronica 9/10 album: [ERROR NOT FOUND]

Electronica is just a subgenre, anything else is a microgenre and of no relevance to educated music enthusiasts.

>>68275124
You're right, because the correct term for beep boops is techno

>>68277794
>are acclaimed by Scaruffi.

Still just rock.

>>68277805
EDM is just an (inferior) subgenre of rock, that is correct.

>>68277794
this is really sad and i want to believe youre joking

>>68277815
Rock is just a shitty subgenre of rhythm & blues which is just a shitty subgenre of jazz.

>>68275124
they all are.
Do you know what the word "genre" means?
Hint: it's french.

>>68277794
don't trust anything a junglist tells you

>>68277794
>what is jazz

i'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and assume this is bait

>>68277849
>caring about dead languages

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>>68277794
Dance music of the 1990s largely rejected the simple, jovial, hedonistic approach to body movement that had ruled since James Brown invented funk music in the 1960s. Disco, techno and house had simply imported new technologies (both for rhythm and arrangements) into the paradigm of funk. The 1990s continued that process, one of the most important ideas to come out of Britain was jungle or drum & bass, a syncopated, polyrhythmic and frantic variant of house, a fusion of hip-hop and techno that relied on extremely fast drum-machines, epileptic breakbeats and huge bass lines.

Few genres of popular music underwent so many changes and reached such ambitious heights as jungle did. Within a few years, jungle musicians were already composing abstract and ambient pieces, integrating breakbeats with pop vocals, adopting jazz improvisation Thanks to ever more intricate beats and to free structures borrowed from jazz, jungle music rapidly became the foundation for a new kind of avantgarde music, pursued by the most austere of the genre's visionaries.

>>68277894
wtf I love scaruffi now

>>68277825
EDM producers will never produce artistic music because all they care about is making music danceable or chill, they just don't have the musicianship and compositional ability required to do so. Vid related - this is what you should be doing with the latest technology, using it as an extension of your musical virtuosity. Using "loops" in an intelligent way, conscious of Reich and the avant garde minimalists, conscious of the krautrock roots of electronica. Being able to time loops perfectly in real time. Using your own vocal pitchshifting instead of shitty "atmospheric" reverbed soul samples with boring melodies. Combining the endless digital keyboard/laptop tones with the dynamic timbres of the guitar to increase the extent that the same melodies or even notes can play off of each other.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYJUeEqLD3s

Is there contemporary patrician electronic music? In a word, absolutely. But it's represented by avant-garde electroacoustic improvisation and experimental developments using progeria like Supercollider, not by some hack in a warehouse blasting an endless I-I-V-I progression over a disco sample.

EDMplebs are some of the most solipsistic in the world because they don't seem to realize that even the most "cutting-edge DJs" they can think of are 20-30 years behind the curve of _actual_ electronic music development.

Honestly, to hear the way some of you get indignant when I bring this up. You don't realize that you're listening to the most populist, retrogressive, kindergarten exponent of the "style" you pretend to champion, and the worst part is the irony is completely lost on you. Classical, jazz/improv and rock composers are paving the way in electronic music. Instead you champion the niche retard movement which is equivalent to classical *muzak*, smooth jazz, and heavy metal as a genre/movement.

>>68277894
>Within a few years, jungle musicians were already composing abstract and ambient pieces, integrating breakbeats with pop vocals, adopting jazz improvisation Thanks to ever more intricate beats and to free structures borrowed from jazz, jungle music rapidly became the foundation for a new kind of avantgarde music, pursued by the most austere of the genre's visionaries.
This weirdy-beardy has done a few genuinely startling tracks, and is generally quite amusing. What galls is the sheer arrogance and temerity of Squarepusher and other similar "drill and bass" dilettantes --they actually believe they are improving on jungle!!! All that Squarepusher has brought to drum & bass is some Jaco Pastorius bass-frills, a dys-funk-tional rhythmic convolution, and a quirked-out daftness that recalls nobody so much as Primus. On a purely technical level, nothing that Squarepusher does with breakbeats surpasses engineer-poets like Hype, Aphrodite, Dillinja, 4 Hero or Danny Breaks, to mention only the most obvious leaders-in-the-field. It is only Squarepusher/Plug etc's distance from the scene that allows them to convolute the breakbeats beyond any use-value to DJ or dancer; the wilful incongruity of the samples is all well and good, but if junglists use the same old gangsta/cyberpunk soundbites and apocalyptic textures, it's because they're trying to create and sustain a vibe, a feeling-full and meaningful mood that crystallises a certain kind of worldview and life-stance. By comparison, drill and bass is vibe-less non-sense. The drill and bass/"fungle" concept seems to exist to make a certain sort of "margin-walker" feel okay about not really having engaged with jungle as a subculture. And of course, as with most soi disant progressive iniatives, drill and bass is utterly parasitic on its populist counterpart--do you really think the idea of chopping up breakbeats would have independently occurred to the weirdy-beardy technoids in a million years?

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>>68277894
ALL JUNGLIST

>>68277933
Twing twang musicians will never produce artistic music because all they care about is making music for feels or geetah wankery, they just don't have the musicianship and compositional ability required to do so. Vid related - this is what you should be doing with the latest technology, using it as an extension of your musical virtuosity. Using "chords" in an intelligent way, conscious of Guitar Hero and the avant garde minimalists, conscious of the Asian roots of string music. Being able to make good muse perfectly in real time. Using your own vocal pitchshifting instead of shitty "feels", reverbed guitar sounds with boring melodies. Combining the endless digital keyboard/laptop tones with the dynamic timbres of the guitar to increase the extent that the same melodies or even notes can play off of each other.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrPaEUjtYvQ

Is there contemporary patrician twing twang music? In a word, absolutely. But it's represented by cutting edge electronic producers and experimental developments using bass, drums and brass instruments with the latest technology like Squarepusher, not by 4 or 5 hacks in a bar blasting an endless verse-chorus-verse progression over a generic drum beat.

Rockplebs are some of the most solipsistic in the world because they don't seem to realize that even the most "cutting-edge strummers" they can think of are 20-30 years behind the curve of _actual_ good music development.

Honestly, to hear the way some of you get indignant when I bring this up. You don't realize that you're listening to the most populist, retrogressive, kindergarten exponent of the "style" you pretend to champion, and the worst part is the irony is completely lost on you. Classical, jazz/improv and electronic composers are paving the way in music. Instead you champion the niche retard movement which is equivalent to classical *muzak*, smooth jazz, and country as a genre/movement.

>>68277959
>>68277894
>>68277960
When drill & bass first reared its head, I was admittedly quite enamored--I really liked the first two Plug EP's and Aphex Twin's "Hangable Auto Bulb" efforts, and was generally enthused by the notion that these artists were freer because they didn't belong to the drum & bass community, didn't have to service DJ's and dancefloor. But Squarepusher was a turning point. Partly because so much of his stuff sounds irritatingly daft to my ears (that said, there were three tracks on Hard Normal Daddy that sounded engagingly strange), but mainly because of the attitude of his supporters--the sheer arrogance of these folks who just assume that Tom Jenkinson's programming is so much more radical than "formula-ridden" junglists. This assumption, I strongly suspect, stems from the fact that they've never actually heard mad-sounding mash-ups like DJ Hype's remix of Remarc's "RIP" or Dillinja's "Warrior". These records are "avant-garde" and fucked-up but still manage to make you dance--to me, a much greater achievement than just freaking out all over the shop. In a lot of Squarepusher-related discourse, the underlying assumption is that if something has no funktional aspect, it's somehow more radical; that this makes it food-for-thought rather than mere dance fodder. Which would seem to replicate the old Cartesian mind/body split, a la prog rock, no?

*ROUND UP, ROUND UP*

ITS BATTLE OF THE COPYPASTA xD

>>68277978
>>68277959
>>68277894
>>68277960
Another turning point was going to various freestyle/"eclectro"/illbient type clubs in London and New York, where I was struck by the absence of "vibe" compared with more "blinkered", tunnel-vision clubs that cater to very specific tastes (jump up jungle, 'aving it house, gabba, and so forth). Partly the vibe-less thing is down to the absence of drug energy, partly the absence of class-based energy/antagonism. But I also think it stems from the very rhetoric of border-crossing, style-hopping, "united mutations"--which tends to attract a rather uncommitted consumer: the proverbial chin-scratcher/head-nodder/trainspotter. Having been that sort of margin-walker myself for so long, I've kind of gone to the opposite extreme: the belief that the apparent "samey"-ness of jump up jungle or gabba or hard house actually produces something very strong and undeniable: a consistent mood, a highly charged affective atmosphere that truly pulsates with "meaning" (for want of a better word).

>>68277998
>>68277978
>>68277959
>>68277894
>>68277960
Where you fall in terms of allegiances depends a lot on how much you value the concept of "being an individual". Squarepusher's stance depends on maintaining a disdainful distance from the jungle scene while parasitically pirating and caricaturing its ideas (I've read Jenkinson actually talk of his relationship with jungle as similar to the difference between "those who lead and those who follow"--ARSEHOLE!!!). This attitude is reflected in many Pusher-fans reluctance to get involved in club culture, seemingly based on the rather adolescent notion that being an individual means refusing to lose yourself in the crowd. Where you fall in terms of allegiance also depends on what you are fundamentally looking for pop music. If you just want weird noises to play on your stereo at home on your lonesome ownsome, then the margin-walkers artists are the ones you'll go for. But if your fix is that whole subculture-matrix where music is part of "a way of life" (e.g. jungle with the MCing and the pirate radio and the crowd rituals etc.), then ostensibly more formulaic scenes and sounds just seem "stronger".

>>68277990
red flag for those so retarded they can't come up with an argument in discussion as they know OP is objectively correct

>>68277998
>>68277978
>>68277959
>>68277894
>>68277960
>>68278013
My ultimate beef with the Squarepusher-type drill & bassologists is that they've decontextualised the music, stripped away all the aspects that give it resonance and affect and subcultural meaning. They've responded to jungle's complexity rather than the feelings it induces and the struggles it embodies. In true prog-rock fashion, they've taken that complexity (the breakbeat science) and turned into a baroque form of virtuosity. It's a typical white bohoprogressivist syndrome, from freeform jazz to prog rock to avant-funk---turning a popular dance music into an unpopular head music. And so those super-accelerated, pitch-shifted, scratchy-rustly-scrapy breakbeats that Squarepusher over-uses work as a trebly timbre element that you listen to, rather than funktional, kinaesthetic beats that work your body. But the real give-away about Squarepusher is what he does with the bass (possibly even more crucial to jungle than breakbeats), i.e. replace the low-end seismology with noodly Jaco Pastorius slap-bass. How anybody who'd ever viscerally experienced jungle sub-bass in its true context (at massive volume through a huge low-end intensive sound-system) could prefer Squarepusher's frilly filigrees of bass-twiddle to the "real thing".... Well, it beats me.

>>68278022
Its 4chans equivalent to Reddits downvoting system for when you don't like to face the truth.

>>68278042
>>68278022
My argument was ignored.
I'll try again:
What does the word "genre" mean?

>>68278051
>1. a style or category of art, music, or literature.

So your argument is any music made with insdtruments that have plugs from Stockhausen to Kanye, Shackleton to Moby are the sane genre?

>>68278109
Yes, they all fit into that same category. They all share one or multiple attributes, therefore they are all part of the same genre.

Whether this actually means something useful is irrelevant to the question whether something is or is not a genre.

>>68278150
Can you rec me some string music then? I like Vivaldi, Ravi Shankar, Bob Dylan, Taylor Swift and Slayer.

~said no one

This is why no one uses it literally.

>>68278190
As I said, whether this actually means something useful (it does not) is irrelevant here.

>>68278190
>>68278150
electronic music is usually used in the context of electronica which is electronic popular music that takes influence from electronic dance music

no one but the autistic op takes electronic music in the most literal sense

Before being a semi normie i thought edm was shit too tbqh

>>68278207
Its not because no one uses it like that.

Like ''indie''

>>68278222
>usually used in the context of electronica

prove it

>>68278246
https://rbt.asia/mu/thread/S43633423

>>68278232
Is "made using electronic instruments" an attribute shared by more than one thing?
If it is, it is a genre.

Whether this means something you can use is not relevant, because we are just thinking about what makes something a genre.

>>68278266
>one thread
lol

and they asked for ambient

>>68278295
go look though or google or ask some non-britbongs friends idk

>>68275124
arguments are missing, sorry but there i have to say

opsafuckinfagot

>>68275124
What about EBM

>>68276964
No

>>68279017
EBM is EBM

Techno
House
Disco
Breakbeat
Trance
Hip hop
Downtempo
Ambient
Industrial
Onkyo/EAI
Musique conctrete
Synthpop

All genres that just happen to be made with electronic instruments mostly

>>68277794
honestly, /bleep/ aka edm fags don't even listen to albums

how pleb can you get

Do mongoloids not deserve music, jackass? #electro

>>68275124
gonna keep calling it electronic to piss of the genre dorks

FUCK /bleep/

>>68277660
EDM is like saying I like ''Guitar'' music

Its just vague

>>68277753
a bleep standard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weT-Jrw5e90
an EDM standard:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXh22Al69KI

I got really into brostep when I was in high school, then sort of lost interest. Last year I was super into it, ad wanted to go to some shows, because my roommate was a big "raver". Then I saw the kind of people went to "raves". Does anybody else really hate the modern day "EDM" community? I'm talking like EDC or Festival going like people. I hate how contrived the EDM "community" is. It's like a bunch of white college students looking for an "artsy" way to do drugs and get fucked up. It's not about the music, it's about "hey we are at a rave so let's do what everybody else does and just take drugs". Even the concept of a rave is dumb. Like why don't people just call it a concert? They need to come up with a stupid term in order to let people "LOL I LIKE DUBSTEP AND DRUGS XDXD". Since the EDM genre is not as big as other, they have to come up with bullshit names to try to force of sense of individualism. Like they are "so special" that they have their own terms for a concert.

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>>68275124
>MUSIC without instruments or voice.

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE.

KILL ME

>>68281695
But anon COOL SOUNDS THAT SOUND LIKE MONSTERS AND FROGS.

>>68275124
I don't see a problem with using "electronic music" or "IDM" as umbrella terms. Although I think it's fucking stupid that people actually think "Electronica" is a genre.

>>68275180
look at you go

>>68280406
I use guitar music in my library for rock, metal and punk and all the dumb subgenres.