previous thread: >>66027921 An experiment in a pen-an

THE /comp/ COMPOSITION CHALLENGE #2 VARIATIONS July 1st - July 7th

Compose a section in a theme and variations based on the opening theme of In the Aeroplane Over The Sea. Keep your section to around the same length as the original (50 or so seconds).

Instrumentation: Violin + Piano
Instrumentation is constant so that at the end, I can stitch this together into a single piece.
To make this easier on me, please email me the midi when you're done [email protected] and I'll be producing it. If you can't give me midi because you only handwrite your music on egyptian parchment, email me the sheet music just incase i miss it itt

Please try to stick to starting and ending in G major (not necessarily the chord, but the key for sure)

POST theme and variations you like. post ideas for directions to take (don't feel compelled to write in any specific style). Post WIPs.

MIDI if you're lazy: http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=01675490908115586209
YouTube stream, /comp/ learning session 2, will be on Sunday, at 6PM US Central Time!

Going to need some feedback, on playing or whatever. Im playing at some sort of open mic but I dont know if I'm prepared or not

https://clyp.it/r2ui54i5

>>66076828
are you that improv anon? You sound kinda like him

>>66076844

Yes im that improv anon

Alan Belkin posted a new vid. This time about modern harmony. Very enlightening, so I recommend it.

https://youtu.be/zYjsOP7sju8

If you haven't checked out his "Art of Composition", I seriously recommend it, as it has in-depth information on the 4 core subjects of composition, namely orchestration, harmony, form and counterpoint. I don't know why it isn't in the OP, as I posted it before.

http://alanbelkinmusic.com/site/en/index.php/on-the-art-of-composition/

At some point, you have to stop learning the basics of music theory and go into the field of actual composition. That's where this site comes in.

>>66076789
I only compose in f major pentatonic, a minor or c major.

Ayy lmao.

>>66076852
then take our collective advice, from anons like
>>66041730
>>66041251
>>66073575
PURSUE MUSIC
YOU ARE A GOD

seriously, you are great at improv. why not songwriting?

>>66076855
I tried to fit everything in from the last thread, but it went over the limit

I'm making a pastebin

>>66076876

Oh wait im not that guy sorry

http://pastebin.com/RVDGYZ56

This is now the paste for all /comp/ threads

It doesn't matter if you include the current paste, but find a way to put this in there

t.current (and original) OP

>>66076895
still great improv

are you >>66075827?

This is good for playing live. I certainly liked it alot

So, this isn't improvised?

>>66077006

It's half improvised, I had the basic idea and concept on the songs, and I improvised everything from there.

Yeah that's me

I did post a few improvisations around, you can know which one is me by the poor recording quality but they usually are really poorly structured.

>>66077098
Learn more chord progressions then. Improvisation (I'm approching from jazz/blues here) is built on the chord progression. Learn how to improvise your harmonies and plan them out. Creating a struture, like a phrase and thn a contrasting phrase, has as much to do with cadence in you harmony as it does the contrasting melodies.

Check out the fake books in >>66076973

File: this board is damn nice.png (125KB, 720x764px) Image search: [Google]

125KB, 720x764px

I like /comp/ desu

>>66077128

My problem isn't with chord progressions or that kind of stuff. I tend to introduce a melodic phrase, then completely forget about it. So my improvisation is just a bunch of random melodic phrases being thrown around

>>66077279
Memorize licks then. I don't really know any resources for that. You can transcribe your favorite melodies.

So when you have a melody memorized, then you can improvise variations of it, or a contrasting melody

>>66077312

Then it wouldn't be an improvisation would it? I know what you mean but usually what I mean by improvisation is to hit record and just try to play whatever that comes of my mind.

But I will try doing that structure thing. Maybe tomorrow.

>>66077443
No worries, anon. Licks are not whole songs. They're what you play when you don't know what to play, or when you forgot the melody you just playe. You play one you remember, so you can expand on it

Good luck with your music, anon

File: Antonello_da_Messina_-_Christ_at_the_Column_-_WGA0744.jpg (192KB, 723x1024px) Image search: [Google]

192KB, 723x1024px

I don't know much theory and the track has plenty of rendering problems making it out of sync at times
So you guys will probably hate this
But I'm going to post it anyway since nobody gives me feedback in normal feedback threads
https://clyp.it/bqv3u0ug

Basically I tried to get some inspiration from sacred music, without respecting the rules of sacred music too zealously.

File: image.jpg (405KB, 1768x900px) Image search: [Google]

405KB, 1768x900px

>>66076817
Here's the theme.
Make sure to post this along with the challenge.

>>66077486
Sounds pretty good m8. You write very well.

Its a bit all over the place though, the entire middle section doesn't really have much to do with the opening... is this a harp concerto or a sacred piece?

You have some great sample libraries, but the piece sounds like its hitting the limiter or compresser too hard in places. watch that you aren't pushing your VSTs too hard and they aren't redlining, it will help with your overall mix.

>>66077486

Sounds pretty good mate. Could be used in a video game OST.

>>66077554
Thank you.
>Its a bit all over the place though
Yeah I agree. But I don't know how to fix it. What I just posted is an extract of the 15 or so minutes of music of the project. It's mostly 1 to 2 minutes segments that I'm trying to render coherent but the inspirations are so diverse that it's not an easy thing to do. I guess I could release it in smaller pieces but I feel that it wouldn't have the same impact, and that since all of it has the same pictural inspiration (the painting by Messina I just posted) I should be able to make it work. But it's probably too ambitious and weird.
Here are some more extracts if you're curious

https://clyp.it/hlwr01o0
https://clyp.it/ohadkb25
https://clyp.it/k5rgsa2h (that one still needs some work)

>the piece sounds like its hitting the limiter or compresser too hard in places
Yeah I'll watch out for that, thanks. The thing is, there are so many samples that my computer is actually unable to play them all at the same time in session mode, so I can never hear the actual mix.

File: Fugue score.png (176KB, 1492x956px)

176KB, 1492x956px

Scored out the exposition of my latest finished fugue for you guys

https://soundcloud.com/psllbof/fugue-in-c-minor-organ

I started doing the next section but sibelius does NOT like having sextuplets and normal notes on the same stave, so I may have to go for 3 staves or something.

And yes there are parallel octaves just before the final cadence on bar 28 in the outer parts.

>>66077486
Now I don't want to post any of my music

Jesus fuck lmao youre amazing

>>66077735
What on earth are you using to make the music with? most DAWs on most computers should easily be able to handle this kind of stuff without an issue.

From the sound of it ("Session mode") you're using Ableton. I'm not sure if thats the best choice for orchestral music. Unless your computer is just shit in which case it probably doesn't matter.

To fix the "its all over the place" issue, just restrict yourself to 1 or two ideas.

State 1 idea, and stick with it, build on it, use the idea in different voices and combinations with itself. Turn the idea upside down (inversion) make the notes of the idea longer (augmentation) make the notes of the idea shorter, use parts of the idea as counterpoint for the idea itself. We call this kind of careful reuse of a single idea "economy of material" and ideally you should still be able to make a very interesting piece using only 1 or 2 main ideas, and it will sound more coherent.

I'd suggest looking at the scores of sacred works on imslp.org and seeing how the masters do it. Something like Scarlatti's Stabat Mater or Bach's sacred works. They have very tight Economy of material

>>66077872
>use parts of the idea as counterpoint for the idea itself
Is this how someone composes a round?

Just wondering

>>66077895
canon/round writing and fugue writing are pretty specific, but that is one of the techniques they use.

This site is great and goes through the Art of fugue, highlighting some of the ways Bach reuses material. Art of Fugue is an extreme example of economy of material, the entire piece being generated from pretty much a single melody:

https://www.teoria.com/en/articles/kdf/I/

>>66077933
thank you!

Alright folks

How do I into more dynamic harmony. I just play block chords in one hand and just a monophonic melody line in the other, and if it sounds boring I just stack more extensions on the chord like a pleb till I'm just playing a clump of notes.

This is getting pretty stale and boring, so what do? I want everything to "fit together" instead of just being distinctly harmony/melody. I just started learning about counterpoint if that is something.

>>66077872
>you're using Ableton
Correct
>your computer is just shit
Also correct. Anything above 15 instances of Kontakt makes my computer suffer

>economy of material
Interesting, thank you. I really should look at more scores. But wouldn't that method be limited to shorter pieces? I have a hard time imagining a piece with one of two ideas that goes beyond 5 minutes. Then again, maybe it's a case of walk before you run.

>>66078084
counterpoint and polyphony are your friends.

If you can write 1 great melody, and then a second great melody that fits with the first, you're well on your way to writing better music. If both melodies have distinct shapes and characters, it will be easier for the listener to distinguish between them. Some people can do this by ear, and some need counterpoint rules as a guide (and using those rules will make your music much clearer and more effective)

the "art of counterpoint" youtube channel is pretty good, unless you're already working through fux's gradus or something.

>>66078095
>15 instances of Kontakt
what? Can't you get like 16 outs from one instance of Kontakt? If everything is stereo, 15 instances is still over 100 instruments. Are you loading a single Kontakt for each instrument?

>>66078084
Listen to accompaniment in some good solo piano pieces if you don't want to go the true polyphony route. Chopin is always good.

>>66078095
Well art of fugue is an hour+ long work that is generated from a single melody of about 10 seconds, so it is possible. And you can always go nuts for a section and come back to your main ideas if you want to. You already have the ability to write lots of different things, its just a matter of reeling it in a bit, at least in the opening. Once a piece gets going you can go completely nuts if you want to.

Its often a question of holding interest. you want an audience to be interested, but not overwhelmed. The other extreme is boredom, you dont want that either.
Sometimes finding the balance takes a while and its not something that will magically happen overnight, just keep writing and each piece will hopefully become tighter over the months or years.

File: variation4.png (379KB, 2550x4728px) Image search: [Google]

379KB, 2550x4728px

>>66076817
>>66077538
My variation is currently composed of 3 periods, all in G major, with the first period introducing the ITAOTS motifs, the second developing a new motif in counterpoint with the ITAOTS one, and the last, at a faster tempo, driving towards the end of the variation

That's what I got right now

https://clyp.it/tnxdkneu

>>66078188
>Can't you get like 16 outs from one instance of Kontakt
I could, but then I couldn't add separate effects and stuff, or could I?
I've tried regrouping instruments in the same instance of Kontakt before but it doesn't change the performance much, since it's the smples in the instruments themselves which take up the memory.

>>66078236

Are those parallel fifths.

Also I like the idea and concept that you are showcasing, but since I'm too used to the I-iii-VI-V chord progression of the original tune, I'm inclined to say it sounds very conflicted.

Another piano improvisation, this one is more structured in some sense, even though the playing is terrible on this one.

https://clyp.it/ycgihko3

>>66077933
>https://www.teoria.com/en/articles/kdf/I/

Damn, how do I come with with something like that? It feels so tightly composed and logical at the same time.

I wish I knew how to piano or something. I can't imagine that sort of thing to be easy on guitar. Maybe writing for multiple instruments would be a better shot.

>>66078375
You could, you just need to route them to separate outputs. And you're right, it wouldn't help that much considering you have a toaster. I have no idea how to do this on Ableton (ableton is an absolute mystery to me) but basically what you need to do is create instrumental groups of Kontakt. Make an instance for strings, make an instance for vocals, make an instance for whatever. Don't route these to your main out puts, route them to an aux track that goes to a separate audio track, or a separate stereo audio track. Disable all of your Kontakts except for the one, and record just that instance onto that stereo stripe. Disable it, then reactivate another one, stripe that out to a separate track. You'll have a bunch of stereo tracks you can mix together into your final mix, and all your kontakts will be disabled so your computer won't shit itself.

>>66078607
Dont feel too bad, that piece is the culmination of a great composers entire life's work. He was like 50 or something when he wrote it. But yes its one of the tightest pieces ever created. Bartok and Beethoven are also good examples of great economy. Beethoven 5th symphony is pretty much all generated by that opening motif, and Bartok's string quartets, particularity No. 4 are extremely tight.

>>66078188
>Can't you get like 16 outs from one instance of Kontakt?
Personally, I've found that the boost in performance is negligable. It's not Kontakt that needs resources, it's the instruments.

>>66078804
I realized that. I just conflate them because my process for minimizing memory is to group stuff into kontakts/other samplers and produce and stripe them independently

>>66078744
Are there also visualization/explainations for those?

I can imagine halfway through composing when you don't like how something sounds it would be so much hassle if you had to change all the instances of the thing only to find out it won't work with something else, and changing everything again, etc.

File: d0708ad72596052084ee5854468fcffa.jpg (89KB, 515x600px) Image search: [Google]

89KB, 515x600px

https://clyp.it/xufe3eg4
Thoughts on this dungeon theme? Wrote it in about 2 hours. Went for a Wind Waker/Zelda-y feel.

>>66079034
There is a pretty good analysis of the opening of Beethoven 5:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgR2l1Zs-8Y

Its pretty clear that he's using that 1 "fate" idea to generate the entire piece, even just listening to it. Very smart.

>>66079053
What kind of vibe are you going for? I really don't like the melody, it sounds really goofy and I don't think it fits the tone of the rest of the piece. But you're using a clarinet and xylophone and those pizz strings, so it makes me feel like you kind of want it goofy? In which case, things like the tremolo and the chord voicings are not doing it for me.

>>66079872
Supposed to be creepy and a bit primal. Think a dungeon full of spooky skeletons or something.

Basically this was my attempt at writing a melody over quartal voicings. I'd post the sheets but there are spelling issues everywhere and I don't feel like correcting it right now.

What do you recommend I change?

>>66079441
okay this reminded me of something.

Analysis, do you guys prefer figured bass inspired notation for inversions, or the a, b, c, d system

>>66079930
I think definitely the clarinet is not a great fit for that. Brass or strings would probably fit better. Post the sheets, I can't transcribe anything right now.

>>66079053
I don't like the stereo balance. Everything of interest is on the right side. The strings on the left are kind of annoying and should be more in the background, in my opinion. Other than that, I think it's pretty successful. I can definetily hear Zelda in it. I love Wind Waker and I think you're onto something, but yeah, try rethinking your panning.

>>66079935
What exactly is the a b c d system?

>>66079935
Either works for me. I kinda prefer the abc system though.

a Vc is easier for me to visualize as the 2nd inversion than a V(6-4)

>>66077538
https://clyp.it/mm3j0jkd
I did the ITAOTS thing except it's not piano + violin but pizz strings, so it's more of an off-contest thing. Hope you'll enjoy it anyway

>>66079985
I think he means just like Cm7 chord and stuff like that

File: 20160701_094701.jpg (119KB, 640x248px)

119KB, 640x248px

>>66080066
Hey do you mind if i use this? Sounds really good man.

Pic related i need a download link

>>66076828
You're great. The last part sounds condensed but I guess that's from the device you recorded in.

/comp/ friends, if anyone would like a part on the guitar played for them, let me know!

File: dungeon.png (694KB, 7370x1755px) Image search: [Google]

694KB, 7370x1755px

>>66079980
>>66079980
Here are the sheets. Please note that I spent barely any time on this so if the harmony is messed up, or really anything it's because I wrote it so quick.

>>66079983
Sorry pham I'll change it. I went with the Sibelius default

>>66079985
a is 1st inversion or 5-3
b is 2nd inversion or 6-3
c is 3rd inversion or 6-4
d is 4th inversion or 4-2

It's always made more sense to me, I don't see why some theory writers feel the need to hold onto figured bass when something might have nothing to do with figured bass.

>>66079985
>>66080093
Its about inversions.

A first inversion chord could be called a "b" chord. (if "a" is a root position chord), and a second inversion chord could be called a "c" chord.

So you get something like:

Ic, iib V7/V, V, Ic, V

Wheras with figured bass it would be:

I(6-4), ii(6-3) V7/V, V, I(6-4), V

Check out under "Notating root position and inversions"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inversion_(music)

>>66080216
>4th inversion
i'm like really tired and i suck cocks please ignore me and substract one from all those numbers

>>66080228
ohhh
>Ic, iib V7/V, V, Ic, V
i'm slightly annoyed at this half-cadence
>Ic, iib V7/V, V, Ic, V, I
there we go

>>66080228
tfw wikipedia mistake
>This notation works even when a note not present in a triad is the bass; for example, F/G is a way of notating a particular approach to voicing an F9 chord (G–F–A–C).

>F/G
>an F9 chord
>not a Gsus chord

you guys are all plebs

>>66080346
How is that even an F9 without a b7 baka

>>66080379
a lot of the wikipedia music theory pages suck

>>66080379
*add9
jazz sus chords are notated as 9s

>>66080307
>i'm slightly annoyed at this half-cadence
hahaha sorry about that. I didn't even notice.

Everyone knows if you want to /half-cadence/ correctly, you need to do like this:

i–v6–iv6–V

>>66080178
...What kind of guitar?

>>66080184
Also, your clarinet melody is very nice and convincing.

File: Frère_Jacques-2.png (7KB, 1058x248px) Image search: [Google]

7KB, 1058x248px

>>66077895
You write a round by writing several snippets of a melody that all outline the same short chord progression, or perhaps just the same chord. Pic related is Frere Jacques with all the parts merged (as they'd sound on a piano if all parts started on the same octave), it outlines I - V - I - I. The snippets should also have a clear melodic contour when strung together horizontally.

It's good for them to be written in invertible counterpoint, but not necessary. I once wrote one in, well, invertible dissonant counterpoint, and tried sticking as many tone clusters as I could in there, and it actually came out pretty well.

>>66080440
>i–v6–iv6–V
I quite like this half-cadence

>>66080556
expand! don't leave it at Hit the Road Jack / you know how I feel

> i-V6-v6-IV6-vi6-II6-V

>>66080556
>>66080613
Why are 6 chords so much more common in classical. You never really see 9 or 13 chords but 6 chords are literally everywhere

>>66080651
first inversion means still a fully stable chord while being able to avoid parallel 5th when the voices go into different chords.

Hey guys, hoping to get some opinions on this piece I've made for soprano (& tape):

https://soundcloud.com/islandroster/danza-soprano

In the meantime I'll comment on what I can.

>>66078529
Vert Ravel like senpai. I quite like this piece. What exactly was structured about this?

>>66077748
I've always liked your fugues senpai, you spend every breathing moment doing them and that's dedication. I have comments on the score's optimization however, isn't 3 measures per system too little? I would put min 4 to make it more efficient. Your margins are also kind of big, as are your staff sizes. Just some comments on the layout, I think it could be done slightly better.

>>66076828
Great stuff m8, you sound prepared enough. The audience won't know if you've messed up, so you have to just fight through any and all errors, and you'll look amazing to them.

>>66080134
https://www.mediafire.com/?jzg3h299xix2mpr
It's kinda sloppy though, I'm a little embarassed

>>66080687
Fucking shit I forgot that 6 means an inversion. I was talking about C6 (e.g C-E-G-A)

>>66080066
https://clyp.it/2bt3jdhk

>>66080134


Hey /comp/ from a producers standpoint, threads like these are a gold mine.

why hasnt /mu/ made an album? or has it?

>>66080754
well the notation is not very uniform, esp. in different countries and different styles.

When going with Roman numbers, I try to stick to figured bass notation ( II6 or II5/6 in C would be f-a-d and f-a-c-d for me), but when going for chord symbols, I'd go for modern notations, as in D/F and F add 6 for f-a-d and f-a-c-d

File: 77777.png (107KB, 1600x859px) Image search: [Google]

107KB, 1600x859px

>>66080726
>https://www.mediafire.com/?jzg3h299xix2mpr

Stop using mediafire.

>>66080865
If you actually call those numbers literal indian people answer and you can have some fun with it.

>>66076817
>>66077538
>stick to starting and ending in the key of G Major
Can't do G minor or E minor? Or D Major, for that matter?

Also, since it's going to be strung together, what is everyone else doing? Just want to know so I don't end up writing the fourth slow ballad variation or something. People are submitting their WIPs already, this would just be kind of a role call.

Personally I was considering a tranquil Faure-style thing (retreating to an easy place after my last piano accompaniment ended so miserably) in either e minor or g minor.

Alternatively a sort of medieval-sounding thing with quartal/quintal harmony (first chord would be GDA, melody might be altered to - - - D D - | D - - C A - or something)

>>66080791
/mu/ has made hundreds of albums, first under the moniker of "the dicklick brigade", and once that shut down from different names (he gibs me dat, christian vaporwave), et al.

however if you mean an album full of compositions, no that has not been made.

>>66080483
classical, rock, jazz w/e I have the technology and hopefully the skill depending on the piece. I don't really compose atm even though I have went through all the courses so I feel guilty because these threads are cool and want to help out any way possible.

>>66077872
>economy of material
Speaking of, I was trying to write a Filipino kundiman-style piece, since they have an interesting musical form of [minor section A][minor section B][parallel major section C], they're more closely related to European lieder/melodies/art songs than to other SE Asian stuff, and well personally I find them quite charming.

I'm having real trouble with emulating their melodies without simply copying them, though, because they have almost the exact opposite of an economy of ideas, and it seems that every A section of melody is a set of motives unrelated to each other, though this tends to be less true of the B and C sections.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lo2yg863owI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrBQs6GF7mE

When I try to come up with a melody, even when I improvise, I tend to reuse motives and add sequences here and there without thinking. So this is seriously proving challenging for me.

File: var-ballad.png (356KB, 2560x1550px) Image search: [Google]

356KB, 2560x1550px

>>66080961
I think a g minor variation might be just fine. It's probably fine to end on whatever dominat of G, too.

I'm going for this clusterfuck of crude rhythms paired with way too much drama way too early.

http://vocaroo.com/i/s1ZJkkyMAwix

>>66080961
Yeah basically anything that could sound good with G major before and after it is best, so all those options are great. I just didn't want everything to be in wildly different keys, but I'll clarify this when I next repost the challenge. It seems like we have quite a few slow things, I was going to make mine close to the original tempo

As a complete beginner to music theory (been reading tab for acoustic guitar for a year or two but can't read sheet music), should I learn classical guitar first and try writing my own pieces for that (I do want to learn it) or should I learn composition, and try to learn a little bit about each instrument?

I want to eventually do both but which do I start with, learning composition or learning classical guitar? I want to be able to apply to a music grad school.

>>66081850
don't see why you can't do both. Also good luck apply to grad without a bachelors in music.

>>66081963
I'm going in this fall to Uni as a first year. Dropped out two years ago because life. Figured I'd just do what I want.

Well then I better get to work.

>>66082037
Dropped out two years ago because life.

Big mistake.

Finish school and do music on the side. If you dont have a degree you will be WORKING for like 50% of your life. minimum wage is not cool man.

>>66081440
Can I ask what's the point of lilly pond? Why would you want to notate things textually

>>66082037
Enjoy your undergrad. I just finished my sophomore year in music and I feel like I've found my passion.

>>66081245
Where do I learn about these kinds of pieces?

File: 1463703084801.gif (3MB, 350x315px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 350x315px

pls no bully

https://clyp.it/4suvt2y0

>>66084816
this is na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-not very good.

consider some other hobby.

>>66084816
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRwhkBAeheM

And search some basic choral studies. Because you're not singing the notes and doing a lot of "glissando" shit. Get to work.

>>66084816
Always wanted to overdub myself, but I hate the sound of my own voice/playing too much to bother. So good on you.

What >>66085144 said, though. The glissando sounds good in certain contexts and styles (pop for instance) but it's basically a lazy way to get to the right pitch without singing the correct interval.

File: Quick little piece.jpg (194KB, 969x825px) Image search: [Google]

194KB, 969x825px

a friend asked me to write him a simple piano piece that's bright and cheerful, critique? Am I doing this right? The stuff from OP's post helps. Going to be 32 measures.

makes me feel cheery at first then goes down a bit in the middle and I'll make the end more lively and whole.

File: gregorian.png (310KB, 2560x1550px) Image search: [Google]

310KB, 2560x1550px

>>66083746
Same reason you'd wanna TeX vs Word, I guess, you get more control compared to wysiwyg, at the cost of having a harder time notating. (and it's free and open-source etc.)

It's only my 3rd score using Lilypond, as I started using /comp/ as an excuse for testing its featurs. I'm pretty content with the results so far. One thing that impresses me in particular is that I can even notate old mensural music OOTB, while even the commercial programs struggle with that.
Before that, I used pirated versions of Finale and Sibelius.

how many of you actually play the piano?

>>66084684
I know what I know about the kundiman mostly from observation. There's not much out there on the subject, which is usually how it is for these more remote classical traditions (except sub-Saharan folk music, which for some reason has its own entry in any given music-related topic on Wikipedia).

I actually received from the University of the Philippines copies of sheet music for some of Nicanor Abelardo's compositions, ones without recordings on Youtube. His piano trio is quite interesting.

File: The Master.jpg (1MB, 3000x2000px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 3000x2000px

>>66085813
I only play classical guitar and cello.

>>66084816
seems like something that isn't suited for vocals. Writing is not bad.

>>66085813
Define "actually play".

I recently started Suzuki piano book 3, self-studying. I can really play something I've learned, but every new piece is like hitting an impenetrable wall only passable by weeks of frustration

>>66085813
Classical piano, some pipe organ, clarinet.

>>66085362
This is garbage. You were fucking around in muse score weren't you. Go back to shitposting on /a/ you hack.

>>66085813
comp is cill.
no.

File: Titien_Emmaus_Louvre400.jpg (1MB, 2040x1354px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 2040x1354px

>>66077486 here
I wrote https://clyp.it/wtcrydny since I last posted in this thread
It's a perfect example of how I write like a kid with ADD
See that part at 0:08 where the mood completely changes, that's just my fingers wanting to explore somewhere new, and me testing out some scale changes and stuff
I started wanting to write something coherent that could be added after one of the previous parts but then it turns into the most debussy-ass sounding bullshit I've written this year

Is there such a thing as modulation for rythms? Like how do I go from 4/4 to 5/4 or something as smooth as possible without speeding up or slowing down too much? Not like section A and section B have different rythms but like 1 section going to a new rythm or something.

>>66085362
A recording would be nice.
Some barring issues like in measure 12.
Several notes are misspelled, like Gb rather than F#.

From what I can tell reading the sheet music:
The consistent application of the left hand motif throughout is nice.
The meter seems loose, because of the left hand motif and the way the right hand melody doesn't seem really concise or distinct. Whether that sounds good or bad, I don't know without a recording.
The harmony seems rather uninteresting.
Something specific which might be applicable to other parts of it: the half note on the second half of the second measure seems like would would sound kind of a sudden departure from this motif in the left hand that's just been established as an accompanimental motif.

>>66087081
Thank you,
>tfw making beginners mistake
>tfw thought I was past this
Anyway here's a recording but its just a musescore playback, I don't own a piano unfortunately. Was hoping to get some simple electric set up, would appreciate recs (poor fag).

>>66086564
;-; pls

https://clyp.it/yfgveqrn

File: Capture.png (22KB, 304x196px) Image search: [Google]

22KB, 304x196px

>>66076789
hey im using sibelius 6 since some poly entity told me its the best software for music, but when i change the key signature the notes dont want to change? is musescore better or should i pirate the latest sibelius??

This was originally written in the key of E, then chopped and sampled.

Afterwards I added a vi-iii-IV-ii-iii progression on top of it and played with the use of major/minor 9ths.

What do you think about it? I like to experiment, but I also like to stay within the "rules" of western music.

https://clyp.it/4rhdavqv

>>66087570
Change key signatures =/= transposing what you've written. If you want to change the key of the music you've written, you must first transpose it (shift or ctrl + t, i don't remember which one), and then change the key signature.

>>66087065
there is a thing such as metric modulation, which isn't quite the same as simply changing time signatures. Going for 4/4 to 5/4 normally, all the beat values stay the same. An example of this is this piece, it goes from 4/4 to 6/8, all the quarter notes stay the same, but there are just less of them in a bar. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWlYk4fGpek
A metric modulation is where you take a beat value, and treat that length of time in a new section. So we would be in 4/4 at 120 BPM, so a dotted quarter note would last roughly 0.75 seconds. You could then metrically modulate, and in an adjacent section treat the dotted quarter as a quarter note in 3/4. This has the effect of slowing down the music though, so I think what you're after is just typical change of time signature. I used metric modulation to slow a piece down, https://soundcloud.com/benbartlett/mixed-feelings to get to the outro, the dotted eight note in 31/16 becomes the quarter note of 4/4

>>66087570
it's a good thing that it does that.

>>66087832
why

>>66087722
Not really after something specific. Was just pondering ideas for the comp challenge, since most theory I know seem to focus on pitch and just the basics for rythm.

Now I know there's actually some theory describing this, any resources you could rec for learning about this topic?

>>66085813
I just play block chords in the left hand and do shitty improv with the right hand. Im a guitarist and I only use my keyboard as a writing tool.

>>66086831
Please PLEASE tell me how you get that realistic sound. I would kill for that. What program/patches?

>>66088161
Symphobia 2 (and some of Symphobia 1 but very little)
Project SAM orchestral essentials
ESQL Gold
That's most of it

>>66085362
>>66087430
I actually kind of like it, but keep in mind my musical tastes are fucked and I was fascinated by looking too closely at noise music last thread.

The first time I listened I didn't quite enjoy it, and only on the second time did I realize the things that were happening musically. I mean, I find that to be true for a lot of music I enjoy, they always seem to eventually grow on me, but that's not a good thing - if you're writing for an audience, most of them will only ever hear it once.
The main motif in the right hand is too bland and nondescript, so when you start it on the fourth measure on the second beat instead of the first, lengthen it slightly, etc. I didn't recognize it as the original motif.

The syncopated bit was cool. It was neat how you managed to join the two rhythms back together.

>measure 11
That left hand part seems kind of weirdly difficult to play.

>measure 17/18
Is there a reason to have the left hand play that part?

https://monoskop.org/images/d/da/Schoenberg_Arnold_Fundamentals_of_Musical_Composition_no_OCR.pdf

The Theme and Variations section is required reading for anyone doing the challenge. Quite helpful. Starts page 95.

>>66088012
I haven't heard of any resources, I've mainly learnt from listening and doing. I'm not sure how common these kinds of things are in classical music. I think you just need to seek out rhythmically complex music and figure out what's working, preferably in the style you're interested in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9ADedGX-cE I'm trying to figure out this song at the moment, pay very close attention to the snare

>>66085362
your melody really sucks. Try singing your melodies, they need space to breath and you need to consider the register that your melodies sit in.

>>66087065
For what you're describing, you might try making the part when the 4/4 stops or when the 5/4 begins more metrically ambiguous. If you destroy the meter it becomes easier to reshape it. You might even do this by going to 3/4 or fucking 7/8 for a single measure before moving to the new meter.

Also, if the 5/4 is complex meter rather than simple quintuple meter, you might make it 2+3 rather than 3+2, since the 2 would be more compatible with the 4/4 than the 3+2.

Alternatively, sometimes the smoothest thing to do is the least smooth thing. Emphasize the change with differences in mood, instrumentation, texture, etc. This probably will be less effective within a section instead of between sections, though.

File: barry morgan and his horny organ.png (193KB, 278x421px) Image search: [Google]

193KB, 278x421px

>>66076828
>the changes around 2:31
mmmm yiis

File: Capture.png (13KB, 334x337px)

13KB, 334x337px

>>66076789
okay what is the difference between all of the basses?

File: var-ballad.png (387KB, 2560x1550px) Image search: [Google]

387KB, 2560x1550px

>>66076817
Became a clusterfuck of incoherent 4 bar segments.

Also, my notation software doesn't do arpeggios, would you kindly implement them in production?

http://vocaroo.com/i/s1CaqO0mVDZB
> dat ear bleed midi violin

http://s000.tinyupload.com/file_uploaded.php?file_id=99677684709626568959&del_id=00211946010358912803&gk=hyip
>midi

>>66079053
Agree about the stereo. But I like the xylophone motif. Very eerie for a dungeon theme. Nice work.

Going to post this here.

https://soundcloud.com/geoffrey-norsa-music/cerseis-trial

If any of you saw the latest GoT ep. That's the vibe I'm trying to get here. In retrospect I think didn't allow enough breathing room. Very basic structure/melody/techniques etc. Going for more media comp. So if you understand why it might be simple at times.

>>66077486
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cZ88IyLvVY
Your style reminds me of this

File: 1464468158095.png (110KB, 736x627px)

110KB, 736x627px

yes? no?
Flute: a beautiful woman
oboe: a piercing shriek (not in a bad way)
clarinet: mystery, exoticism
brass: the musical equivalent of your uncle's incorporate dinner table flatulence
violins/violas/cello/bass: silkp

>>66091982
>violin
>not the most god awful shrieking instrument unless played by a professional
Cello is better and the most expressive of the string section

>>66091020
all the same

>>66092061
I agree but
I've heard some awful cello in my day.

Guys how do you take picture of your score, or should i just use screen capture/snipping tool?

>>66093799
I use snip.

>>66093799
What program do you use

File: 1467312087156.jpg (115KB, 1285x1015px) Image search: [Google]

115KB, 1285x1015px

can you guys turn music on and off on your head at will? I can hear symphonies at will and 'feel' where the notes are by locations in my throat/head corresponding to singing and I learned instruments by obsessively improvising is this normal?

I can't compose for shit though yet and I'm really autistic

>>66093960
sibelius 6

>>66094403
i want that picture but with her in disgust

>>66094544
pls don't bully pepe :(

File: Capture.png (130KB, 875x486px) Image search: [Google]

130KB, 875x486px

HOLY FUCK MY MUSIC GOT DELETED WTF SIBELIUS?!?!

God fucking damn, at least i have the pic

and the deleted post only had half the music, fuck

>>66095267
oh damn

>>66095342
yeah, im writing it again with the pic so no worries. is musescore worth getting into or sib 7?

Whatchu all think of hooktheory and theorytab?

https://www.hooktheory.com/theorytab

Personally I think it's neat to have a database of semi-analyzed songs. Also their hookpad is nice for jotting down quick ideas. Although it might be sort of a crutch for new composers and they'll just copy the shitty chord voicings directly instead of making them nice and/or harmonically interesting.

http://www.hooktheory.com/hookpad/view/43jlgZAnqe6r

https://clyp.it/4iittsht

Been working on expanding this.
I'm still trying to figure out somewhere to take it.
Sounds okay senpai?

>>66095441
Sib 6 is fine, just save. save many versions as you go. .sib files are tiny and you can always delete them later.
How the hell did the music get deleted?

File: GnB.png (61KB, 3000x3864px) Image search: [Google]

61KB, 3000x3864px

>>66096458
when i exited the program it asked if i wanted to save like 3 times and i must have overwritten it with some blank untitled file, because i was screwing around with diff instruments and i pressed create new every time i wanted to change.

Anyways i have it back. and i know how to export it to png too. enjoy my shitty music
https://clyp.it/pmm3115d

ba p
>>66096740
now that i think about it, the beginning is pretty shit but i think i did alright on the second half. maybe if the instruments didnt sound so shit

File: Capture.png (185KB, 406x326px) Image search: [Google]

185KB, 406x326px

thoughts on scorecloud?

Now that we're entering the weekends the threads will need extra help to live.

Unfortunately on mobile about to sleep I can't listen to anyone's clyps

>>66098594
ya, damnit mu why you gotta be so shit. i gotta work tomorrow who th fucks gonna review my score?

Post away, I'm in CET and can help bridge the gap

Started another fugue today:

https://clyp.it/wstfhuup

Some timing and dynamic issues but pretty good for a couple of hours work, and those can be cleaned up later. Next job is to put together the next section

Nothing says "neo-baroque" like trills

File: TEST43.png (349KB, 5161x2844px) Image search: [Google]

349KB, 5161x2844px

This is a draft on a jazz piece I'm working on.

The rhythm in the piano and drums is not finished, I wanted to explore more ideas later.

I mainly want some feedback/ideas on the piano chords as I'm not sure if the movement/ voice leading is correct.
I tried to do as little movement as possible in the chords.

Will also probably change some of the Sax melody at some point.

>>66099816
Forgot the link.

https://clyp.it/1hnd1teb

>>66099816
The bass wants to swing more, add an occasional half beat every bar or two, and maybe using some octave movements.

Same goes with the sax melody, add more interest towards the end, it feels like its playing it too safe at that point, if you get what I mean.

>>66099877
Me again.
In saying that, I do think the piano is quite good, although it could some more rhythmic comping.

>>66099877
>>66099907

I agree on the Sax melody. Will change it later.

I'm not exactly sure if I understand you correctly on the Bass, so pic attached is the basic idea what I got from you.

Will add more rhythmic variety + extensions in paino later.

>>66099986
I meant as in something like:
1, 2, 3, 4+,
1, 2+, 3, 4,
etc.

Anyone know that scale that the Japanese use for their traditional music? It's some sort of 6 note scale I think, I only know the first three notes are I,IIb and III

File: Koto Hirojoshi Scale.jpg (77KB, 905x275px) Image search: [Google]

77KB, 905x275px

>>66100273
Hiro Joshi scale is one of them. pic related. the koto has 13 strings so its a 13 note scale

Supposedly some of the scales were secret in feudal japan and guarded by a group of blind monks...

>>66100273
>>66100273
There are many.

http://dump.no/files/3d4446441ded/ExoticScalesForGuitarPt1.pdf

File: Japanese Scales.png (235KB, 2389x2204px) Image search: [Google]

235KB, 2389x2204px

>>66100322
Transcribed for non guitar players.

https://clyp.it/hvlbn1j2

File: Screen Shot 2016-07-02 at 7.39.27 AM.png (260KB, 1306x488px) Image search: [Google]

260KB, 1306x488px

>>66099816
The pianist shouldn't be playing the roots, that's what the bass player is for. You also don't even need to play the 5th. You want to extend your piano parts with tensions here I've used some 9's, #11's and 13's, see if you can find them and figure out how they sound. Your voice leading is fine.
You bass part is not really working, you should work to connect bars to each through stepwise motion, and you should vary the intervals you use within the bar.
You melody starts to become boring because basically every note is a chord tone. This is jazz, so you can just honk a long note on a 9 or a 13 and it'll sound good, no need to justify non chord tones.
I think your chord progression is uncharacteristic of jazz. I don't know a single tune with Vmaj7, which doesn't mean you can't use it, but it does seem out place straight away in the second bar. The chord progression I'd use would be Bbmaj7, Abmaj7, Gbmaj7 (i'm autistic about spelling), F7. Bb6, Abmaj7, G-7, F#7 F7 (2 chords per bar). Bbmaj7 Fmaj7, F#maj7, F7. Bb6 Abmaj7, G-7, F#7 F7.

I think nondiatonicism should be in a way justified. Usually it's because you want that chord colour, and you're clearly using the Abmaj7 in bar 6 for colour. But I don't understand why you're using the non-diatonic Fmaj7 in bar 10. You should make it stick out a bit more if you're using it. Instead of the melody outlining Fmaj triad, make it outline A minor. It'll give your chosen chord more purpose, and not seem like a mistake.

>>66097416
>>66096740
Yeah man I was going to say, bar 8 and onwards is okay but before that it's absolute garbage. I think you should scrap what you have and either write a new intro or expand on the other material.

Somethings I would change are the diminished chord in bar 12, the B D F. I think it just doesn't sound good. You could try sharpening the F, flattening the Bb, or moving the B down to A. I also think you need to think a bit harder about what chords you're creating, and ask yourself if that's what you really want. Like the first chord in bar 17, what's up with that. It's not a bad chord, but to suddenly double down on two tritone and have a semitone in the upper two voices, it just seems out of place.

>>66101309
>>66099816
I also forgot to mention your melodic agreement is off in some places. pay attention to bars 7 and 15. Also, I think the melody in 14 is mishandled. You resolve the dissonance instantly, but it still feels wrong. Check out stella by starlight to see great handling of a 4 -> 3 accented dissonance

>>66100547
I see these scales and have to immediately think of earlier Dream theater...

>>66091982
>music theory makes you think you're scoring a lord of the rings romance spin off
top kek

>>66101309
Yeah I agree with this. Removing the roots makes the piano part far less crowded, and at the same time allows for smaller movement between degrees, which means you can have more closed voicings if you desire. I often use stock voicings - 3, 5, 7, 9. Simple, easy to manipulate, and they sound great.

When I saw what the improv guy did, I figured out that I should also edit my recordings together so I have them in one place. I dropped one part of them and then cut some more of it and it got me under 30 minutes of material.

All of this is about a 1.5 - 2 years of recordings. I have a few times that amount in my DAW, but still, I thought I had much more of them, but after editing I was kinda dissapointed.

So I guess I should post them here, I'd appreciate some feedback too, given that nobody ever heard any of them. They are also improvs and ideas, sometimes rougher, sometimes smoother.

https://clyp.it/1ppxq0jf

Here's a list of them, because they are all snapped together:

0:00 - 1:07
1:08 - 1:46
1:46 - 2:25
2:26 - 3:04
3:04 - 3:26
3:26 - 5:15
5:15 - 6:40
6:40 - 7:11
7:11 - 8:04
8:05 - 9:36
9:36 - 11:12
11:13 - 12:04
12:04 - 12:22
12:23 - 13:32
13:32 - 13:42
13:42 - 14:05
14:06 - 14:33
14:33 - 14:46
14:47 - 15:24
15:24 - 15:43
15:44 - 16:29
16:29 - 16:42
16:43 - 17:11
17:11 - 19:22
19:23 - 21:35
21:36 - 22:25
22:25 - 22:54
22:54 - 23:20
23:21 - 24:23
24:23 - 24:59
25:00 - 25:46
25:47 - 26:20

Jesus, I spent, like, 4 hours on this.

>>66103295
The next step is to chose the ones you like best and work them into actual pieces.

>>66103295
buddy, nobody wants to critique 26 minutes of fragmented ideas.

Someone can let me know what they think of this.
>>66079053
Speaking of Wind Waker, I'm not sure if there are any classical guitarists here, but I arranged Gohdan's theme for solo Guitar a couple years ago.
https://www.musescore.com/user/381396/scores/404421

>>66101309
>>66101441

Thanks. Been working on it since your post.
Will post results when I'm done.

File: 1462425211741.jpg (226KB, 600x583px)

226KB, 600x583px

>tfw I will never be able to learn music theory
>already have been struggling with basic harmony and solfeggio
>tfw I want to write meaningful pieces

>>66103755
Wait for the stream on harmony

File: asciiPepe.gif (535KB, 640x636px) Image search: [Google]

535KB, 640x636px

>>66103755
>tfw i have elected to never learn music theory
>tfw outsider master race

To life gents[and grills too :^)]

Can anyone explain what the heck is the circle of fifths?

I looked into it briefly and I noticed it seems to be pretty basic and fundamental, like for example on C major, normally we would use the ii as a minor, V as a major, vi for minor and so on.

But there's so many instance whereby most modulation are not covered by the circle, for example on a minor key,

i - VI - iv - IIb

or

I - VIIb - I - VIIb - IIIb - II - V7

>>66104929
how could the circle of fifths be a circle if it's already a pyramid scheme

>>66103994
So how do you write your songs, and what music do you write?

>>66104929
I'm afraid I don't understand the question

>>66105205

How do I 'use' the circle of fifths?

>>66105178
>implying it's possible to own something that has no material form
>implying music is a human product and exists totally within the realm of intellectual property
get woke homeboy

>>66105232
This has a few of the most common uses for the circle of fifths

http://www.fretjam.com/3-practical-uses-for-the-circle-of-fifths.html

>>66105255
I'm sorry for giving off the impression of implying those, but I wasn't.

I assumed that you were a musician because of >>66103994

Whether or not music is a human product is irrelevant to the question. Humans are capable of creating music, and I assume you're human. Are you?

And if so, do you produce music? Of what sort, and how?

>>66105305
you said
>your songs
>you write
those are big no no's, chief

>>66105305
>Humans are capable of creating music
what did you mean by that?

>>66105305

Ah so the circle of fifths is kind of like a guideline for diatonic stuff?

>>66105384
quit being a pretentious jack off, you understand what he means.

>>66105423
Circle of fifths movement is the strongest kind of harmonic root movement. You can think of it kind of ranked liked this
1. 5ths down
2. minor 2nds down
3. major 2nds down or up, or 4ths down, non diatonic 3rd motion
4. diatonic 3rd motion

This is pretty subjective, but cycles based on descending 5ths are common just because they make it easy to make chord progressions with a lot of forward momentum. It's kind of the "default" chord progression, and you should look to not rely on it. Mixing in different kinds of root movement is powerful too.

>>66105384
>>66105418
I apologize for giving off the impression theat I am implying the exsistence of intellectual property. I am not. I am merely using a common expression to explain how you, as a human (I assume you are), can produce music (sound). Are you not capable of producing sound?

>>66105418
Humans can produce sound.

>>66105423
It is commonly used to describe diatonic keys, yes

>>66103634
I just noticed in the example I posted that the bass always descends by step into the next bar. You should be better than me and vary the approach direction too

I was never able to hear and understand which chords are played except for V - I since I'm not retarded. Am I deaf? Keep in mind that I have 13 years of music exp, 11 of those in school. This deafness basically fucked me so hard in theory, I just can't write what I hear.

Hoping a homie can get some feedback senpaitachi

>>66080702

>>66105624
I don't know how much you practiced listening to chord changes. Maybe figuring out easy chord progressions such as in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylXk1LBvIqU and remembering them (basically just rinse & repeat them endlessly) will help you.

>>66105507
i agree that all music must be sound
but is all sound music?

>>66105854
It can be interpreted that way. If you want it to be music, it is!

>>66105624
if you never actively practiced hearing chords, then you would suck yeah
>>66080702
>https://soundcloud.com/islandroster/danza-soprano
for soprano?

>>66105936
Yeah, was designed for this Soprano I know (have yet to record), and she could hit that low F3.

>>66105865
so could a painting of a clown be music if interpret it as music?

File: a picture is visual art, not music.png (23KB, 642x514px) Image search: [Google]

23KB, 642x514px

>>66105987
I was referring to sound.

Bimp

>>66105955
mainly asked because of the violin sound in the mockup. Hard to critique without hearing it properly, but it grooves and it works. If you haven't already, you should really think about what vowels and syllables your soprano should use to differentiate the lines. The main problem with your mock up is it's really muddy and hard to hear what things are meant to be

>>66105987
If you feed it into a UPIC machine, sure:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yztoaNakKok

>>66106227
>tfw actually digging Xenakis drum pieces https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKTF0o6wYhg

reminds

>>66106019 >>66105865
your post asserts only the claim that a human may interpret some sound to be music but not that a human can create music

>>66106297
Yes. Your point? An earlier post of mine already made the point >>66105507

>>66106327
no, there you asserted only that humans could create sound and that sound is the medium of music. it is totally reasonable within your logical framework to describe the process of communication as such:
1. a person creates some sound
2. this sound is communicated to another person
3. the second person may choose to interpret the sound as music

notice that in order for the second person to hear music, it was not necessary for the first person to create music: it was sufficient just for him to create sound. so this begs the question: is the first person capable of creating music or only sound that a second person may just choose to interpret as music?

>>66106425
I apologize for the confusion and lack of logical arguments, but I'm not trying to argue here.

I assumed you were a musician from your original post. Are you?

Assuming you were, I asked you about music. Then we got into this long argument on music.

I don't care about this whole argument. Can I just ask you about music that you make? (again, assuming ou do make it)

>>66106489
ii appreciate your apology for the confusion you are causing me. i do not wish to make this difficult for you, i am merely attempting to establish a shared language and vocabulary through which i may better understand what seems to me to be your rather bizarre question

>>66105936
>>66105806
Are there any places I can learn to recognize them and practice?

>>66106540
Nevermind, just forget it. No need to establish a vocabulary; I'm ending this conversation

>>66106600
this conversation as an idea now exists in the digital ether now, you have no way to terminate it

>>66106569
This website got posted a couple of times. I think it's pretty good for beginners + advanced. http://teoria.com/

Also figuring out pieces on your own will help you immensely. It's quite difficult in the beginning, but you will start to recognize patterns and from then on it gets easier.

Remember to take it slow.

Most of you guys seem to know what you are talking about so.. Why are you here?

>>66107421
cuz succ my dick

I'm really interested in music theory but never studied it.Will the thobybrush guide be enough to be join the discussion and be able to listen to classical music properly?

https://clyp.it/12cghk2i

I think there is no hope for me. I don't think I can do it with my lack of theory understanding, I feel terrible today. This threads are just a reminder how much I threw my life away.

>>66107731

Don't feel bad anon. I liked it, it's not bad at all.

>>66107591
my post ended up looking like a shit but please respond

>>66085813
Me. 4 years of self-study, 1 year of formal study.

>>66106210
Yeah it's just solfege. The second section has very intelligible solfege so IMO it would work

>>66107731
Work on your attitude, dude. You can learn about music theory. Anybody can learn music theory and start to compose.

Maybe get a private teacher who specializes in music theory/composition. But in the end of the day you have to put effort into it. A lot of effort. sry kind of ranting, but you get the point
There is hope for anybody (except alt-J's singer he's fucking terrible and always will be)

>>66107421
It's fun to talk about music theory.

>>66077538
No matter how I listen to it it sounds like he sings B D at the beginning of this rather than D D

I want to point out that you don't need all that advanced music theory to make balling music. Especially since a lot of advanced music theory has you stuck making pieces that sound like classical music that has already been made. Learn the basics about how to THINK ABOUT harmony, and then go off on your own. I get the feeling hanging out in comp that people use more time learning theory than actually composing anything with artistic integrity (i.e. pieces that have a purpose other than simply being a vessel for testing out their newest knowledge).

As far as I'm concerned, a lot of what I knew about music theory went out the window as soon as I started composing myself. Because you make wrong calculations or slip and write a wrong note all the time, and 90% of the time, that mistake sounds better than anything I'd learned.

>>66107731
http://bookzz.org/book/538402/c26e7c

Start from here.
Review the things written there once a month.

>>66109078
I agree that learning music theory and learning compositional skills are two separate things entirely

That said, music theory is fun to learn, isn't it? And so long as you don't let it dominate your composing, it's a great tool.

>>66109078
>implying you can't use music theory to break every rule classical music ever made

>>66109078
a lot of beginner composers write with theory, when theory should just explain. And there's more to theory than just classical theory too, your mistakes are probably easily explainable

>>66109217
Not implying that, I'm just saying that it's a waste of time mastering theory when what you actually want to do is to compose. I don't know if you know this, but composing is a completely different activity, craft and art than learning music theory. If it's composing you want to get good at, it's composing you should practice, and only fuel it with new theoretical knowledge on the side.

>>66109307
But you learn faster with theory. If you just start composing jazz, it might take you awhile to figure that virtually every jazz piece ever written uses ii-V-I, but theory can just tell you that.

>>66095267
Lmao I had Sibelius delete like 3/4 of a Forest theme I wrote and I went back and wrote something like 2x better.

>>66109307
Composing is a lot harder though. It's easy to follow a theory book and do as it says. It's menial work. Composing however requires creativity, and the results are often dissapointing for a beginner in the beginning, because they're unable to live up their expectations (partly set by theory even). So they procrastinate by reading more theory, because composing is making them more and more anxious about composing.

>>66109362
Did you ever wonder what the one thing ever great composer knew? Theory.

I do agree with you, that beginners rely on theory too much. But even if you never actually learned music theory, you apply it whenever you write music.

>>66109340
I agree with that, but I don't think theory is something you should dedicate yourself to full time. Personally, I'd say more like 80% composing 20% theory. Even though I get that ii-V-I is just meant as an example, it's still a bit misleading. ii-V-I is the absolute basics of the basics in jazz. It's the first thing you learn after you understand what notes and chords are. It's not really what I'm talking about.

>>66109427
What are you talking about then? I mean, that's what theory is. The study of notes and chords

>>66109465
>The study of notes and chords
That's a really simplistic way of putting it. Beyond notes and chords, there's rhythm, styles, ranges, etc. You know jack shit if you don't read and don't explore genres too.

>>66109411
I never did wonder that, sorry. Again, I'm not saying you shouldn't study theory, but damn me if it isn't nearly the only thing /comp/ actually talks about. The amount of time we spend talking about it isn't in proportion with the importance of theory.

>>66109465
I'm not talking about #the study of notes and chords", I'm talking about literally knowing what notes and chords are.

>>66109084
>>66108875
>>66107780
Thanks to the guy who liked it. I just have to say that I was studying piano for 11 years but dropped out of music academy, i.e., switched to another degree.

Have you heard that saying, "instrumentalists know how to play and don't know theory, while theorists know theory but can't play"? Well, a lot of people around me was saying that, and also things like "oh, you shouldn't worry about solfege/harmony/counterpoint/whatever, you'll pass that anyway, focus on piano".

Well guess what? All those national first prizes and recognitions went down the drain because I couldn't pass theory classes in my academy because I didn't really know that much. I was so far behind at that point that I couldn't catch up anymore.

If I could go back I would probably focus on theory much more, because I couldn't have done both due to lack of time.

Yes, I am fully aware that my atitude is bad, I'm just struggling to control myself at this point. It's a stupid mistake and while technicaly I could still go back, I still don't know jack shit.

Don't mention private teachers, I spent more money on one of them than I would like to admit, and he barely managed to get me through the entry exams and then left me without even calling while I needed him the most.

I still compose though, because that was actually what I always wanted, it brings me too much happiness to let it go.

>>66109534
I know. I was just quoting your post in an ironic way.

>>66109558
That's how we anallyze compositions, though. You know, someone posts a clyp and they get responses like
>>66077872
>>66078153
>>66087081
>>66088561
>>66099877
>>66099907
>>66101309
>>66101441

So, any violinists here by any chance?

>>66109566
I kind of know the feeling, though my situation is not exactly like yours. You have my sympathy anon.

>>66109887
here, but >>66109889 this is me, so I guess you can figure out that I'm not exactly professional. Also, I haven't played in years because of bitter feelings that surface every time I pick it up

Is that going to be the theme as it appears in the recording? Should someone compose a piano accompaniment for it?

>>66109887
Yes, why?

>>66110114
Just looking into the possibility of this composition challenge getting a recording rather than just being midi

I can't very well record it on the cello

File: Untitled.png (9KB, 494x212px) Image search: [Google]

9KB, 494x212px

What does this mean?
Happens as soon as I double click the setup

>>66103335

what if i have 26 minutes of time to listen to it.

>>66103295
so i'm not sure if i'm "the improv guy", but if you're reffering to the person who posted the bits of unfinished clips in pico-song with the picture of a robot that would be me. i can't provide concise note by note constructive criticism like these other posters as i'm completely unfamilier with music theory terminology, but i did enjoy these pieces the most though:

1:08 - 1:46

1:46 - 2:25

2:26 - 3:04

7:11 - 8:04

9:36 - 11:12

12:23 - 13:32

13:32 - 14:33

15:44 - 16:29

16:43 - 19:22

19:23 - 21:35

22:26 - 22:54

25:00 - 26:20

i generally prefer music that creates an atmosphere, emotional response, triggers nostalgic memories, or conveys a visual concept or soundscape.

i'd recommend either a better mic or a decent electronic keyboard and some free VST's like i use. recording digitally is so much easier. i think you more fluid grasp of coordinating melodies than i do. my left hand is basically retarded.

REMINDER

YouTube Stream Guy here

YouTube stream is tomorrow, at 6PM, US Central Time

This one will be about harmony (really just chords)

It'll teach ya how to construct major/minor triads, seventh chords, and suspended chords.

It'll teach ya inversions and other basic voicing shit.

It'll teach ya common chord progressions and chord functions, and cadences. You can use all that shit to make up your own progression (a simple one, anyway)

It doesn't get much into jazz harmony because of the complexity of that topic. That'll be in another stream, probably after the next couple of streams.

Anyway, the stream after this one will concern melody, mainly homophonic, but it'll touch on counterpoint, too. It'll teach the basics of constructing a melody, then developing it with variation and introduction of motifs. A basic introduction to music form will be in there two, and then general musical form and structure will be in the stream after that. After that form stream, it'll be the lesson on jazz harmony.


That's the plan for the next few weeks. What do y'all think.

>>66110940
you have*

File: 1458770610910.jpg (30KB, 400x384px) Image search: [Google]

30KB, 400x384px

>>66106654
>"if i establish 4 levels of ironic shitposting i won't have to post my music and the poster will just assume i'm more advanced then they are but in reality i just paulstretch sounds of cats fucking."

all this dancing around the point holy shit. just post something you obfuscating twat.

>>66107731
>https://clyp.it/12cghk2i
sounds completely acceptable to me. i mean that midi harpsichord is laughable, but this sounds like counterpoint NES era game over music if that was you're goal.

>>66110959
Sounds good to me.

Actually, I was taught counterpoint first, and then harmony, but I understand that's not the norm.

>>66110959
melody is great to cover next, looking at the thread I think that's what most people could stand to improve

>>66110959
This is really going to help me get a leg up before college starts, thanks stream guy

https://soundcloud.com/krisena/lullaby-for-sofie-theme-and-variations

I posted this in one of the first /comp/s. You can listen to it if you want. I'd love to get more feedback on it.

It's a short theme and variations piece for a music box based on a lullaby I wrote. Hope you like it.

File: variation3.png (378KB, 2548x4712px) Image search: [Google]

378KB, 2548x4712px

>>66076817
>>66077538
I fixed some harmonic issues in the counterpoint in my variation on the ITAOTS theme

Can y'all spot any big counterpoint issues?

Also, do you think I should write some short transitions between the periods? I feel like they need a transition

https://clyp.it/o3gmrnir

>>66110940
Wow, thanks for listening. Yeah, you picked most of the stuff I like the most too, I should have probably cut out some more of them.

I'll have to bring in my place my old electronic pianino this summer, cause I recently realized it actually has MIDI, so I'm looking forward to finally be able to play in my DAW without problems.

>>66111123
Yeah, I spent like 20 minutes trying to find something listenable but nothing was good enough. Well, organ would probably be better, but some notes are still lost in it.

https://clyp.it/5zxc5dvq

That is actually the complete opposite of what I want, I already heard once before that one of my pieces sounded like it's from some RPG. But I have no idea why it sounds like that when I obviously wanted to compose in baroque style - inb4 the last part, I went in a completely different direction in the end, don't mind that.

>>66111526
Is there a reason you don't have dynamic markings or phrasing? If not, I would try not to save it for last as an afterthought. It's a good habit to know how you want something to be played.

File: variation3.png (391KB, 2550x4712px)

391KB, 2550x4712px

>>66111611
The keyboard I have doesn't have dynamics, so I know next to nothing about them

p=soft
mp=kinda soft
multiple ps=even softer

f=loud
mf=kinda loud
multiple fs=even louder

>=diminuendo=fade to quiet
<=cresendo=get louder

But I have no idea how to play or apply these.

I was thinking of something like pic related, but I didn't know if it was right or anything. https://clyp.it/qo2fdew5

>>66111803
>p=soft
>mp=kinda soft
>multiple ps=even softer
>f=loud
>mf=kinda loud
>multiple fs=even louder
Technically, this is true, but like many a music teacher will tell you, it's more beneficial to think of them as characters rather than simple level adjustment. For example like this:

piano as not only soft, but as an intimate voice that draws people in,

pianissimo as whispering that makes the audience really lean forward in their seats out of sheer instilled curiosity of what's being said

forte is not only loud, but also strong and confident. At least not shy of expressing their feelings. A musician can't play forte without actually making an effort, and that effort can't be half-assed without making it... not forte.

So start seeing your music as a conversation or a speech or something, and think of the character you'd like to express in each phrase. Listen to Obama or Luther King or something, and then listen to this:

https://youtu.be/8icOkFkuFhM

This piece has some extreme dynamic range. The ppp marking works so well with strings, because they can ACTUALLY play that soft. Imagine as listening to someone having a conversation behind a locked door, and you can just make out small portions of what's being said. The effect it can have on a listener is really profound!

>>66112049
screencapping this

>>66112049
To summarize:

pianos = drawing people in
fortes = blowing them away

Constantly travels between soft and loud, and you will be like a temptress that first compliments you, only to immediately insult you, which only makes you want her even more. When composing, be seductive.

>>66112176
so there should be a different feeling?

Like a p might be openending and questioning, and an f might be more definitive and grounded, with stronger cadences?

That's what I kinda tried to do with >>66111803
On bar 20, I made it quiter because it broke the established rhythm, which was very strong, and brought the loudness back when the rhythm came back. I also made the beginning softer, because it was more of a wandering melody, before the counterpoint, and added a cresendo before the PAC

Were those okay things to do?

>>66111529
>That is actually the complete opposite of what I want, I already heard once before that one of my pieces sounded like it's from some RPG

most JRPG's from the late 80's early 90's had highly baroque influenced music. i think the only reason people say that is because of the VST you used. get some DSK harpsichord and i really doubt you'd hear that again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWIXb677sYk&list=PL49207A67C68DE4EB&index=3


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSrwa-gWcyk&list=PLBEAD4D9F9F74DD4F&index=2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcjamza2WXg&index=12&list=PLEOQ0YA_1DWmVNhFGVFT9r7qNRzAfOELH

you get the idea.

>>66112462
Oh, good, that's what I thought. Basically, when you speed it up and add some retro synth a lot of stuff like that sound like it came straight from an old video game.

Damn, I need some good (Kontakt) libraries for this genre.

>>66109340
so what youre saying is

>dont learn theory
>write whatever jazz you damn want
versus
>learn theory
>have to write ii-V-I

>>66112615
no, im saying
>dont learn theory
>dont know what the fuck youre doing
>how do i write coltrance changes?
>how do i write modal jazz?
>write shitty jazz

vs

>learn theory
>usually write ii-V-I
>write slightly less shitty jazz
>learn more theory
>write changes as good as coltrane
>write beautiful modal jazz
>be le epic improviser because you understand what tones to add to chord and how to develop licks (motifs)

>>66111315
Just out of curiousity, since I mostly self study, why is this not the norm? I thought chords were like a result of counterpoint voices or something?

>>66112615
the opposite is the case.

>>66112684
>tonality
i love this meme

>>66112689
only if there are three voices, as a chord is made up of at least 3 notes

But this is only at certain times. Counterpoint is made of seperate melodies. Composers only pay attention to the harmony so they sound good together

>>66112716
atonal composers dont use theory? their theory was revolutionary, yes, but it is still music theory

what the fuck are you talking about?

>>66112750
>equal temperament
thats a great meme too

>>66112689
Who knows?

Chords and functional harmony was born from counterpoint, but it's usually taught in reverse order for some reason.

Too much theory talks here, not enough recordings.

What happened to this general? When did it become /mtg/ - music theory general?

>>66112773
>>66112716
Look at this guy, he's using his music theory quite well right now.

File: 538.jpg (11KB, 200x396px) Image search: [Google]

11KB, 200x396px

>>66112773

>>66112689
Because harmony is inherent in counterpoint, it's best to be acquinted with harmony first. So you, you know, don't have that whole aspect to counterpoint-writing that you don't understand.

>>66112719
>only if there are three voices, as a chord is made up of at least 3 notes
This isn't really correct. Let's say you only have one voice, but the melody ascends by these notes: B D# F# A C. That is an implied B7b9 right there. AND if this was played in a church or any other room with some good reverb, you'd actually hear the notes at the same time. The whole chord. So, harmony is inherent in even single voice melodies.

>>66112790
It's the weekend.

It's also in the pasta as the stated purpose for the general
>for all the theory autists

>>66112802
its meme theory now mate

so, back to >>66111526

do yall think I should add transitions?

and are there any problems with my counterpoint? another anon said I had parallel fifths but I can't find them

>>66112365
>Were those okay things to do?
It's not about okay and not okay, it's about trying something and then measuring the effect of what you did. I found it actually very satisfying when you went into forte from piano. Did you?

>>66112829
Who changed pasta? This thread was supposed to be for composers, with a focus on classical, but every songwriter was welcome as well. Not exclusively for art music and music theory circlejerks.

>>66112864
No, anon. We're discussing whether or not music theory is a meme right now. Yet again.

(regarding parallel 5ths, they're in the left hand mainly, for example in measure 10. Parallel 5ths are not necessarily a bad thing though)

>>66112864
>can't find them
m80, bars 6 and 7, 13 and 14. Although I wouldn't usually worry too much about parallel 5ths considering the jazz harmonic style, those in particular do sound jarring. Your parts are crossing all the time which I would avoid. The piano could be a whole lot lower just for contrast

How hard is this supposed to be

>Fux's Counterpoint

?

>>66112907
yes, i did

>>66112927
thats how the pasta was at the very beginning
I think it's only because music theory is applied in all composing, and that we use music theory to critique compositions

>>66112962
>>66112996
thanks for the help

>>66112927
The person who originally wrote it, I guess?

No one's excluding non-classical here, in any case. I mean the main discussion right now is about jazz

>>66112790
I posted this >>66111518

I've been helping out and writing a lot of long posts here now, so I'd love you guys if you gave me some feedback in return!

>>66113027
>>66113031
How old are these generals?

>>66112927
i agree with this anon, should get rid of the pretense.

What makes a good solo piece? Specially for non chordal instruments? Why is it so hard to come up with something good, no comping instruments?

>>66112927
Original OP and YT stream guy here

I just said "theory autists" because you use theory to compose (whether you realize it or not)(even i am sitting in a room uses music theory)(technically)(i hate not having spoilers)

>>66113056
like three weeks, maybe

>>66113057
the pasta is changing, because there's so much stuff in it. we added a pastebin here >>66076973

http://pastebin.com/RVDGYZ56

I doubt the original phrase will change though

"An experiment in a pen-and-paper composing general, made for all the theory autists

This differs from /prod/ in that it is more focused on art music and music theory. That is not to say /prod/'s electronic music is unwelcome, by all means, post here! But follow in the footsteps of the classical composers of the 20th century who experimented in electronic music. But remember, this is NOT /classical/. Any art music, such as jazz, is acceptable

Post clyps and accompanying notation so we can accurately critique your composing from a theory perspective"

because, again, you're using theory whether you know it or not

but can we stop arguing about theory? when did this become /theory/?

>>66113027
Before yet another distraction occurs or the thread dies, I need to say this
I can hardly hear the original theme in your variation. It should be audible (in some ghost-like fashion at least), that's the point of a theme and variations.
Listen to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJ-BIEutAWc
(theme starts at 0:24)
You can hear the theme in every variation, though more often than not just an outline of it.

It's fine to disrupt the harmony of it, it's fine to disrupt the meter, the rhythm, etc, whatever you want, but if you do all of these things too much, the original theme gets harder and harder to hear among all the new things being done to it.

>>66113036
Oh, I remember this

This one's wonderful, anyone doing the challenge should check it out.

>>66113140
May I bug you for some criticism on my attempt >>66091086, while ignoring the shitty midi sound? I'm aware that it's overly piano heavy and climaxes too fast as it dies out, as it's only unique trait is a combined 7/8 meter.
What I'd really like is some more insights into the usage of string melodies, as I'm a keys and woodwinds guy.
Thanks.

>>66113130
I don't disagree with anything about theory, it's just the "art music" bit.

>>66113130
>I doubt the original phrase will change though
Can't we just say that it differs from /prod/ in that we're more focused on WRITING MUSIC FULL STOP. Why doooo we have to snob it up with art music? People's definition of art is so narrow anyway. I'd love to help out with the composition of even the most dionysian pop song desu.

>>66113130
>like three weeks, maybe
Aha... I was asking because, as far as I know, I made these generals 6(+) months ago. I haven't seen those threads ever before and kept opening them for some time but then stopped and I only saw them again a few days ago. I'm not sure about that for a fact, but people reacted as it's a new thing.

Anyway, who the fuck cares who opened them, but that's why I said that these threads should have been opened to everyone who writes music, as was stated in the original OP.

But it's great now that we have a nice pastebin with all of the learning materials. This thread just misses a single quote from some composer at the beginning.

“I tell my piano the things I used to tell you”
- Frédéric Chopin

Perfect :).

>>66113326
>>66113313
okay, okay, I'll change it m8

that won't stop this general from being mainly jazz and classical

I'm doing the YT streams mainly from a classical and jazz perspective, too, because everyone seems to be writing those genres

>>66113339
yeah, some other anons mentioned these used to exsist. i'm sorry i never saw them, though.

>>66113339
>“I tell my piano the things I used to tell you”
Holy shit, so good

>>66113026
Anyone went through this?

>>66113184
Your endorsement means a lot, anon Thank you

>>66113339
ok, how about this for the pastebin


Title: /comp/ - Composition General

“I tell my piano the things I used to tell you”
- Frédéric Chopin

evious thread: >>#######

An experiment in a pen-and-paper composing general, made for all the theory autists

This differs from /prod/ in that it is more focused on the actual writing of music, not the production, and music theory. That is not to say /prod/'s electronic music is unwelcome, by all means, post here! But post with the intent on discussing composition. And remember, this is NOT /classical/. Any music, such as jazz, is acceptable

Post clyps and accompanying notation so we can accurately critique your composing from a theory perspective

Resources (full of lessons and some fake books):http://pastebin.com/RVDGYZ56

>>66113438
Oh, it's actually very easy. It's written as a discussion between a master and (irritatingly perfect) student, basically an ancient how-to book

>>66113476
sound great.

>>66113476
Spellcheck and it's good.

>>66113476
Good, but I just wouldn't mention "theory autists" part.

>>66113286
I kind of gave this criticism already, I believe in the last thread but I'll add quick thoughts under threat of oncoming thread death

You have mostly the same problem, though less so since the harmony is sort of the same (not quite since it perfect cadences and the original half cadences but can't verify that right now).

I'll just shamelessly shill my own comment here: >>66089058
The part about the motif of variation is essential.

File: practice.jpg (112KB, 999x606px)

112KB, 999x606px

I don't know what I'm doing but I think it sounds decent for now, too simple to start? Imagine that both players are experienced at at the minimum, intermediate in terms of skill.

>>66113482
Cool. I went through half of it and it was strange how easy it was. On the other hand, I feel bad now because I thought music theory finally clicked with me, but I guess it's because of the book.

Is this all you need for a counterpoint course or? I had some other book from my teacher and it is pretty much the same thing, but this is much better. If only more stuff was written like this.

>>66113638
Forgot to mention anything past measure 8/9 doesn't count, not really a part of the piece yet.

Hey there, I was looking into this pitch improver thingy: http://pitchimprover.com/

Does anyone know if practicing with this shit is any useful? I dont seem to improve at all really.

How could someone improve their ear?

>>66113638
probably want to post this in the next thread, with a recording

right now I'll just say Fux would frown upon the motion between the right hand of the piano and the guitar. (But Fux would frown upon anything Baroque and beyond so that's really neither a bad or good thing.) Again though, probably want to post this next thread.

>>66113670
It's not the end-all book on counterpoint but it's an excellent starting point for anyone.

>>66113676
I hear Teoria's great for that.
Teoria's great for a lot of other things as well, though, so I've never really tried Teoria's ear training stuff out.

>>66113834
>It's not the end-all book on counterpoint but it's an excellent starting point for anyone.

What should I read after that? How much more there is to it?

I don't know if I'm thinking about some other website, but it seems that Teoria got a ton of new content recently. I was there before and it was just basic stuff. Now I can actually practice my ear there too. If only it was like that while I was a music student...

>>66113881
I really shouldn't be speaking much about books I haven't yet read but
http://eisel.us/theory/Counterpoint.pdf
Here's Kent Kennan's Counterpoint, which (from a cursory skim of the table of contents) seems to be about how counterpoint has been used in the past, two-part inventions, fugues, that sort of things.

Basically it seems to be a book on the applications of counterpoint

Thread is sinking!! Make a new thread already!?

Let's see how over the bump limit we can get.

Is someone preparing to post the new thread? Make sure to post this: >>66113476 plus spellchecking

>>66114022
i am

>>66114043
Ah, good.

>>66114094
>>66114094
>>66114094
>>66114094
>>66114094
NEW THREAD