Campfire Tales is a vastly superior story time episode than Cutie

>>30837150
>flashbacks not tied to characters of interest
>stories rushed for what they are
>CMC act much younger again out of nowhere
>scaredy chicken
>flow of story not as engaging
>flyders

>>30837150
>Try to prove me wrong
Actual story development established, the CMC behaved like natural children, no gross-out, no pointless edgelord OC adventures crammed in and no ties to inferior spin-off material.

>>30837150
Why did the stallion get super strong? Because fuck you, that's why.

>>30837153
>stories rushed for what they are
I don't get it. They were less rushed than in Cutie Mark Chronicles and there was more time for the established characters to react to them (something cutie mark chronicles lacked)

>CMC act much younger again out of nowhere
When does this happen? I can't think of a single instance besides...

>scaredy chicken
There was only one freak out that was slightly unreasonable and Scootaloo even acknowledged it. Scootaloo's freak outs seemed pretty reasonable considering they were literally trapped in a cave.

>flow of story not as engaging
This episode did a much better job connecting the actual characters to the stories than chronicles ironically enough, making it feel more like camp fire stories compared to chronicles where its just a character talking directly to the kids without reaction.

>flyders
>disliking a creepy addition to the show
>disliking world building

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>>30837150
Nah. I can't agree with that. Campfire Tales was absolutely amazing, and as a standalone episode, it was probably better than The Cutie Mark Chronicles. Better pacing, better integration with the stories, less rushed. Overall a really good episode.

But the stories here were about random characters we never heard of before, while in TCMC we got the back story of the main characters. If you care about the Mane 6, TCMC was a vastly superior episode in the context of the show. It tells something you wanted to know, and it does it fairly well. It's been my favorite episode since I first watched it, I doubt I'll ever like any other episode so much. Honestly, as much as I love other episodes like CotLM, or Sleepless in Ponyville, I can't consider any episode without all the girls better than an episode where all of them were important.

>>30837153
>flashbacks not tied to characters of interest
Dash's and Rarity's stories pretty obviously reflected the values of the ponies telling them. Not so much for AJ's, and hers was admittedly the weakest of the three.

>>30837177
The flyders were fucking gay and you know it.

>>30837206
>and as a standalone episode, it was probably better than The Cutie Mark Chronicles.
I don't think it's fair to compare the two. One is meant to establish character backstory, while the other is presented as world-building and lore. The scope and aims of each are completely different.

>>30837234
No different from cragadiles, timber wolves, bugbears, or fruit bats.

>>30837249
>combination of environment and animal
>combination of animal and animal
It's incredibly uncreative.

>>30837150
Except for Rarity's, the stories were rather dull. Since they're legends they don't add to lore (except for those oriental ponies, I think we can be sure those actually existed). They didn't form a moral, a moral was in fact completely absent, then again CMC didn't have on either. Scootaloo grew into a pitiful crybaby.

>>30837321
I think we did get one thing from Rainbow's story, that green dragon may have been Ember's mother.

>>30837321
>Scootaloo grew into a pitiful crybaby.
She is scared of caves. Having claustrophobia doesn't make her a crybaby, and this gave us the chance to see that she no longer tries to hide her feelings from Dash, which means that they're closer now.

>>30837332
That would be pretty cool, I haven't thought about that. I'm a little afraid that Torch was actually just a stock dragon. It's very hard to tell what is historically factual about the stories, and what is just legend.

>>30837321
>Since they're legends they don't add to lore (except for those oriental ponies, I think we can be sure those actually existed)
People keep saying this, but I think it's obvious that they're all intended to exist. Legends of Magic, where the characters debuted, certainly supports that.

>>30837341
Making Scootaloo afraid of caves is poor writing. She wasn't afraid of them in SiP. She was scared of the story of the Headless Horse, which, to be frank, was being told in the middle of the night in a blood-thirsty forest. Plus she had been sleep-deprivated for quite some time. This time around it was daytime and she had Dash's comfort. Also the fact that Luna taught her to face her fears, yet Scoots doesn't develop at all during Campfire Tales, kind of breaks her character development.

She shrieked at almost everything that happened throughout the episode: touching a leaf, stepping on a twig, seeing a cave, being trapped (reasonably justifiable), the concept of dragons and Rainbow Dash's story in general (this one makes no sense at all), and water streams (also justified).

>>30837350
It's mostly Applejack's story that kills the realism. Wimpy earth pony intantly transforms into a swole bloke and digs a mile-long canal in a matter of minutes? Maybe if you take it figuratively. At least we must agree that pony vikings, oriental ponies, and dragon-fighting pegasi must have existed in the first place. My point is thought what I like about lore is being able to see it fed back into the series itself. Unless there'll be future trips to foreign lands, we're never going to see the japonies or vikings again, and nor will it affect the way we see the things we are used to.

>>30837153

>flashbacks not tied to characters

Flashbacks that didn't basically go 'Dash is responsible for you all not being massive fucking retrobates and otherwise useless'.

>stories rushed for what they are

The only chapter that got any work in CMChronicles was AJ. The rest were 'oh and then I did this shit and got my mark thanks to Dash'.

>CMC act much younger again

They always have been. I don't get where this magical maturity began outside the Sweetie Belle/Rarity episode but they act like kids regardless.

>Scoots being scared of shit

Was always a character trait. Never resolved or worked on.

>flow of story not as engaging

Only due to the nature. Each of the 3 stories could probably be stretched out to an episode each while the CMChronicles wouldn't last 10 minutes each, let alone 20+.

>flyders

???

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>>30837376
Maybe the leaf and the twig were a bit over the top, the episode would have worked much better if she was only scared after they entered the cave. But she was scared of caves in SIP (note that "oh, no, not a cave" is not a real quote though). If she's scared of caves and scared of being trapped, it didn't matter what Dash's story was about, Scootaloo would be scared of it anyway because her panic had become stronger than her.
>Luna taught her to face her fears, yet Scoots doesn't develop at all during Campfire Tales, kind of breaks her character development
But that would be completely unrealistic. "Stop having fear, Scootaloo." "Oh, thanks, Princess Luna, I don't have fear anymore." I think that the fact that she used to hide entirely her fears with her bravado facade and now she shows them is part of her development. The first step in solving any problem is recognizing there is one.

>>30837381

The point is that they were all based off different cultural story telling methods.

AJ/EarthPone was Pagan European style where inexplicable super humanism was the norm for stories.

Rarity/Unicorn was Asian style where the one who put in hard work and dedication would win in the face of adversity and self sacrifice would solve more problems than being jaded and self serving.

Dash/Pegasi was typical Mediterranean style where an otherwise normal guy becomes a hero by being audacious and using a magic item to solve his problem in otherwise unwinnable odds.

They were meant to be distinct for what they were.

>>30837381
MLP was never meant to be realistic; it always had a whimsical, mythical tone to it. That's why ponies raise the sun and moon, and manage every natural process.

And for what it's worth, Rockhoof's cutie mark is the valknut, a symbol associated with Odin. Make of that what you will.

>>30837381
>My point is thought what I like about lore is being able to see it fed back into the series itself. Unless there'll be future trips to foreign lands, we're never going to see the japonies or vikings again
This episode is already feeding back from earlier seasons, though. The eastern unicorns were first mentioned in S05E02.

>>30837150
what the fuck happened to sweetie belles voice

>>30837444

Same as AJs voice.

But all the CMCs voice actors probably got told to age them.

>>30837401
I think the context begs to disagree. Just look at how she dashed into the cave when everyone finally headed off to bed. Initially she's hesitant to come in but after that she doesn't seem too terrorized. All of her fears in Sleepless In Ponyville are caused by a vicious circle of self esteem issues and sleep deprivation. In Campfire Tales, they are turned into phobias in and of themselves. And yes, Scoots was scared of Rainbow Dash's story because of its contents:
>Dragons? The scary mean ones or like Spike?
>*literally collapses from fear*

>But that would be completely unrealistic.
Hold up. I'm not saying she should have not been scared of anything to begin with, but instead that she should have been working on trying to get comfortable and not freaking out all the time. Instead all we see is Scootaloo indulging in her weakness. "Face your fears", Luna said. Did Scootaloo do that? She showed no bravery, and nor did she seem to have grown mentally at the end of the episode. If you're gonna decide to go on a camping trip, and you know things will scare you, you should mentally prepare for that, just like an alcoholic should at least try to abstain from drinking when he hangs out with friends. Maybe I'm asking too much of a little filly, but I still think this is bad continuity.

>>30837406
This is an interesting take. Can you give me an example of such a pagan story? Because if it's indeed based on a type of story telling that I'm not familiar with, I'll withdraw my criticism regardings the dubious conclusion of AJ's story.

>>30837448
Small addendum: If you were camping with two friends, their sisters and a friend of them whom you look up to, and they can comfortably sit with their sisters while you are alone because you are afraid to show your weaknesses to said cool friend, and then she even starts scaring you with scary stories, wouldn't you be afraid the whole time too? That doesn't necessarily mean that you're afraid of camping trips. That's what Scootaloo's scenario in Sleepless In Ponyville was.

>>30837456

I can't offhand but most Pagan stories tend to be 'man does something and finds strength to complete his mission randomly'.

Beowulfs second saga is the first one I can really think of where he finds the sword that kills Grendel's mother just lying in her cave without any reason for it to be there after being helpless before her. There's a bunch more stories around as well but I don't have them sitting around to link to but it's a common theme. Self sacrifice is common in alot of them as well but rarely as often as asian mythology.

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>>30837150
1) The stories mean NOTHING. In TCMC, all the stories ultimately build up to one huge point. Trite as it may seem to you, it's still an actual point. In Campfire Tales, there isn't one. I was honestly expecting protags to get inspired by these legends and do something to get out of the situation, but no. These are just three random stories that lead up to nothing.
2) As a follow-up, these stories also lead up to nothing in the context of actual lore and worldbuilding. As I said, these are just three random legends with no connection to each other. We don't even know whether they happened at the same era, or if Princesses were around at the time. It's not a "heavy lore episode" by any means.
3) Scootaloo is written horribly. For an episode that references Sleepless In Ponyville, it might've been nice to remember the actual basic point of SIP: Scootaloo learning to overcome her fears. Sure, she might've not overcome them completely, but this episode doesn't even show any attempts on her size, that's just textbook flanderization.
There are some good things to say about the ep too, but ultimately, no, it's nowhere near TCMC just because it's "comfy". The entire episode is a mess both within itself and within the larger context of the show.

>>30837444
7 years.

>>30837583
>1) The stories mean NOTHING.
They tie into their elements. Dash tells a story about loyalty, while Rarity spins one of the ultimate generosity. It's an insight into their characters, and the stories that inspire them to be the ponies they are today.

(Rarity also uses her actual cutie mark talent for once, which is something that hasn't even been mentioned since like, season 1.)

>2) As a follow-up, these stories also lead up to nothing in the context of actual lore and worldbuilding.
- We get to see the eastern unicorns that were first mentioned in The Cutie Map.
- It establishes the idea of pre-EUP pegasi fighting dragons. It also shows a possible younger Torch from over a thousand years prior.
- The characters might be relevant to at least one more episode this season, if not the finale, since we know Somnambula is going to show up as well.

There's plenty if you were paying attention.

>>30837746
>They tie into their elements. Dash tells a story about loyalty, while Rarity spins one of the ultimate generosity. It's an insight into their characters, and the stories that inspire them to be the ponies they are today.
And Applejack's one is about determination, which is not her element. They should've thought this through better. Plus, once again, it would've been much better if their elements tied into the actual story of the episode.
> We get to see the eastern unicorns that were first mentioned in The Cutie Map.
There were also "eight mysterious objects" mentioned in The Cutie Map. That seems like a much more logical thing to develop, but yeah, I guess at the end of the day those eastern unicorns were what everyone really wanted to see.
>- It establishes the idea of pre-EUP pegasi fighting dragons. It also shows a possible younger Torch from over a thousand years prior.
I'll give you that one.
>- The characters might be relevant to at least one more episode this season, if not the finale, since we know Somnambula is going to show up as well.
Knowing MLP, I doubt that.

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>>30837807
>That seems like a much more logical thing to develop, but yeah, I guess at the end of the day those eastern unicorns were what everyone really wanted to see.
So what you're suggesting is, expanding on a geographical region and an entire civilization -- literally building a part of the world -- that's less worldbuilding than eight magical (not "mysterious") artifacts?

>Knowing MLP, I doubt that.
We've seen Somnambula with our own eyes in season 7 commercials, and she's from Legends of Magic same as the others. Throw in Mage Meadowbrook (there's your artifact connection, by the way) and Star Swirl, and that's one for each of the Mane Six.

>>30837887
>So what you're suggesting is, expanding on a geographical region and an entire civilization -- literally building a part of the world -- that's less worldbuilding than eight magical (not "mysterious") artifacts?
We only see the distant past of that civilization. We don't know what's happening with them now.
>We've seen Somnambula with our own eyes in season 7 commercials, and she's from Legends of Magic same as the others. Throw in Mage Meadowbrook (there's your artifact connection, by the way) and Star Swirl, and that's one for each of the Mane Six.
I was talking about legens from this episode playing a part in the season finale.

>>30837910
What I'm saying is, we already know the finale involves the Pony of Shadows. If they're introducing the ancient counterparts of the Mane Six, it would likely come to a head in the finale.

>>30837887
I'm a bit out of touch - who's Somnambula and where did we see her in the commercials? All things said I don't quite buy into your "deepest lore" synthesis. The show has a job to build a lore structure, not us. Foreign lands and mysterious artifacts are cool and all but when they are only mentioned once or twice there's not much narrative value to them.

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>>30838210
Somnambula is the Egyptian-looking one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSyX0kHw6KI

It's not "deepest lore"; it's just foreshadowing. Season 4 did it with rainbow power and season 5 did it with Starlight. Hell, the theme of this season is "family and legacy" according to Jim, so a group of Mane Six precursors would fit right in. And if they're doing that, well, see >>30837919.

>>30837376
It isn't that unreasonable considering that it was never established she got over those fears in sleepless. She was scared of those things in sleepless, but couldn't show it.

>>30837400
>They always have been. I don't get where this magical maturity began outside the Sweetie Belle/Rarity episode but they act like kids regardless.

They have been getting more mature since season 1, but people forget that they are still kids (or young teenagers at this point, i'm not really sure how old they are any more).

>>30838432
Rehashing the same character problems and excusing it by "well they can't change at once" is lazy writing. It worked with Fluttershy because it explored different aspects of her anxiety, but they're not going to do that to Scootaloo.

>>30838449
What did sleepless do to actually resolve any of her fears besides the one she had of dash not accepting her? She was still scared of the stories by the end of the episode, but embraced her fear in a healthier way. It would be lazy writing if she was instantly over all of those other fears.

>>30838465
>instantly
It's been 4 seasons already. I don't care how much time has passed in the show itself, when a series with continuity references a conflict from 4 years ago, I expect it to have developed in some way, shape or form. Scootaloo cartoonishly shivering from every screech she hears is not development, it's flanderization for gags.

>>30838515
But she never went back to that camping site since sleepless, you don't just get over your fears by not facing them. She has developed in other ways, but pretty much every episode involving Scoots in a scary situation had her act cowardly.

Besides, most of her fears were pretty reasonable if you think about it, from stopping her friend from eating poison to being trapped in a cave.

>>30838432
You could possibly be right but I like to believe one unlucky event with a happy ending is not enough to scar Scootaloo in the long run. These fears should have been blown over after Rainbow Dash accepts her. By the way how do you think SiP followed up after the ending of the episode? Do you think they finished the camping trip or did they immediately head home? If it's the former, there's no excuse, but I'd like to hear your opinion anyway.

>>30838533
People can develop phobias for lesser reasons than what happened to Scootaloo, she nearly died afterall.

They very likely finished the trip considering the ending of sleepless, but a days worth a camping wouldn't instantly undo all of the fear Scoots had. It generally takes a long time to undo phobias even with proper treatment, so its realistic that scoots is still afraid considering they haven't camped for a year.

>>30838530
>pretty much every episode involving Scoots in a scary situation had her act cowardly.
This is your personal stray observation, not something that's been focused on. This still doesn't change the fact that this feels like a sequel nobody asked for. SIP leaves us with hope and a belief that Scootaloo will eventually overcome her fear. This wasn't important enough to come back to for years, but then CT comes along and shows that no, four seasons have passed and her fear is still there because the writers couldn't think of anything new. The more I think about it, the more it does sound like something you'd see in a bad direct-to-DVD sequel: character flaws from the original being exaggerated in a dumb way.

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>>30838592
>a sequel nobody asked for
Speak for yourself, Anon. I've been looking forward to this "sequel" for years.

>>30838592
SiP showed that Dash would still accept Scoots despite her fears. There wasn't anything about Scoots being able to get over them in it, just to show her fears in a more healthy way. If anything, having Scoots get over them without mention would undermine the moral of sleepless.

Okay so let me do a reality check: is there anyone else that thinks that shot of Dash consoling Scootaloo by throwing her in the air and snuggling her like a little baby is utterly pathetic? Or is that really just me? I have no problems with ponies and hugs but this goes too far.

>>30838752
It's just you.

>>30838752
Who hurt you, Anon?

>>30839409
The idea that I have is that she's just feeding her phobias and it takes a rather morbid mother/infant-like relationship... but yeah you guys are right it's probably just me. I wanna see Scoots grow brave and smart, not degenerate into a fragile wimp.

>>30837150
I don't even like S1 that much but Cutie Mark Chronicles was way better

>>30838679
>There wasn't anything about Scoots being able to get over them in it, just to show her fears in a more healthy way.
Maybe no, but she tried to overcome them. Simply giving in to phobias is not a solution either

>>30839510
But she is overcoming them. The way to get over a phobia is to come into contact with whatever is making you scared, which Scootaloo did. Her giving into them would be her choosing not to go onto the camping trip at all.

>>30839591
Whether she went on the trip with this in mind I'll leave up for debate, but the writers could have at least alluded to this.

>>30839443
I like the cowardly scoots more, its part of what makes her character unique. Rather than being the generic tough tomboy in season 1, she is still a tomboy, but clearly can't live up to her bravado; but unlike other characters like this, the writers keep her likable.

>season 1
>good