>Starlight isn't a mary sue Coming from the website

>>30404259
>Nicks
It's Neeks, dude.

>>30404272
just wanted to avoid user filters friendo

>>30404259
>Admits she's ludicrously overpowered
>But she's not a mary sue because I say so :^)
Fuck this guy. Thing is I actually DON'T consider Starlight to be a mary sue but his reasoning is piss poor.

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>>30404259
Ok now i know why the filters on Neeks.
Holy shit he is a retarded.

>>30404259
>she's a unicorn but she's much stronger than the established characters and has a dark past and is now friends with the main characters and she succeeds every time
>not a mary sue

>>30404272
>>30404301
>>30404610
>>30404621


wait a fucking minute, what happen with nyx?

Do the mod put some type of filter that put the thread in auto-sage like in /v/ when you use LOL ?

>>30404732
>>30401136

>>30404732
baka desu senpai

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>>30404259
>There has been no hinting of Celestia and Luna being Gods
Holy fuck, this damage control!

>>30404259
Starlight isn't a mary sue you retards
she is vogel's a self insert

>>30404610
>i don't know what a mary sue is.

>>30404259
I still like her

>>30404732
No just some people have their own user filters

>>30404259
Wait... did any of the EQD staff seriously write that? I mean I thought the commenters were insane but the staff seemed alright at cons. (Except Q, he was weird)

>>30407803
This is some sort of "Mailbox" category where visitors can send in their own bits: https://www.equestriadaily.com/search/label/Pony%20Community%20Soapbox

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>>30404768
nothing says "god" like being defeated everytime you show up.

>>30407823
> hurrdurr, immortal celestial diarchs aren't gods! totally!
Just because writers are too incompetent to use them as anything more than "hero power level" leverage doesn't mean they aren't fucking deities.

>>30404610
he literally quoted the definition and gave reasons why that definition doesn't apply
now while i do think there are better examples to show why she isn't a mary sue, that explanation is much more than "because i say so"

>>30407869
yes it does? They NEVER did anything godlike. Moving the sun/moon is not the same as it would be in reallife. It simply requires more magic, which an alicorn has, not being divine.
Them being gods was a season1 headcanon, nothing more nothing less

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>>30407869
>Just because writers are too incompetent
funny because the very first instance of one of the gods being defeated was the opening of the very first episode lord emperor faust wrote.

>>30407898
The problem with the term mary sue is that everyone has a different idea of what comprises one. For some it's the character lacking flaws. For others it's that the character is overpowered and for others it's that the plot and entire cast revolve around the character. I personally think the best way of determining whether a character is a mary sue is by judging the degree in which a character is challenged in their medium and how much of a role they play compared to the other characters. Take Aragorn from LOTR for example; trained by elves, master swordsman, future king, descended from a race of demigods etc. If you dropped Aragorn in another setting then anyone would consider him a mary sue but he's not considered one in the context of LOTR because despite all of these skills he's still stretched to breaking point during his role in the story. Furthermore he's not able to defeat the villain himself and requires help from those around him. Lastly he's not even that powerful compared to the one shotting elf and literal angel whom he travels with on his journey. So contextually speaking Aragorn is not a mary sue.

Regarding Glimmer I think that she's been poorly implemented in the show but that merely her being powerful does not make her a mary sue. Nor is she portrayed as flawless either as she has clear anger issues, experiences frequent self doubt and is prone to snap decisions which backfire on her. In my opinion Glimmer is not a mary sue as despite her power level she's still been challenged several times during the course of the show and almost none of the issues she's faced have been solved by her alone. She's just a shoehorned character in a show where the main cast had been set for several seasons prior to her appearance and it's jarring to a lot of viewers. The only real mary sue thing I can think about her is all of the mane 6 instantly liking her. They really ought to have built on her individual relationships with the mane 6 more.

>>30404259
Being OP is not what you use to define a Mary Sue. Mary Sue's are like self insert characters or something. They're like wish fulfilling OCs.

>>30404259
>Mary Sue is perfect and thus lacks realism.
No! Why does everyone keep making this same mistake.
Have they deliberately changed the meaning or didn't they understand it in the first place?
Mary Sue was a character that didn't make sense in the setting.

Example: Fantastic Four on mission #678 is suddenly rescued by this little boy.
So impressed with his amazing genius and karate moves they make him a member.
He gets a leotard and they now call themselves Fantastic Four Plus.

That's a Gary Stu. His inclusion makes no sense and the others are acting weird to not point it out.

Having the former villain Glimmer become a resident apprentice in Twilights castle irks a lot of people who think she doesn't have a logical and emotional reason to be embraced in that way. (Although they can find many other things to complain about too.)

>>30408154
>Gary Stu
I hate this term. Mary Sue has nothing to do with the sex of the character and so using a different term to mean the same thing for male characters is so fucking redundant. Not that I'm having a go at you, anon, I just really fucking hate that term. It's so pointless.

>>30408154
I always thought Mary Sue refers to like Sheppard from Mass Effect. No matter what the character does, everyone likes them immediately. Everything goes their way and they're the only ones that can solve the problem.

>>30404259
they are right, the only people bitching about it literally haven't watched the show since season 3 because muh alicorn transformation. autists cannot handle change

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get your facts for arguments here!
5 bits a pop!

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CommonMarySueTraits

>>30408528
>and die in a graceful, beautiful way to reinforce that the character was Too Good for This Sinful Earth

Are they gonna kill Starlight off?

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>>30408543
We can only hope

>>30408460
>Mary Sue is gender neutral, making Gary Stu useless denomination.
You are correct.

Not sure why I picked up the habit of using "Gary Stu" but it was a long time ago.
Perhaps I'm just a wordfag who likes diversity?

>>30408495
>Sheppard from Mass Effect. No matter what the character does, everyone likes them immediately
Don't know that character (and never played the games) so I'm clueless.

All my knowledge comes from literary/fiction and how the fanfics (predates MLP) invented it as they started to get sick of fanfics where some odd person just waltzed along and became part of the original cast.

One, Starlight needs to be louder, angrier, and have access to a
time machine.
Two, whenever Starlight's not onscreen, all the
other characters should be asking "Where's Starlight"?

>>30408600
there is literally no reason to believe twilight is the strongest unicorn in the world. im not sure how she gets a write off when its exactly the same
>wow a rainbow fwiendship made me possessed and my mom is a princess my brother is captain of the football team :D

>>30408528
Reading it right now. Several of these traits disturbingly describe Starlight. There's even one about "reforming an entire group of people about their negative qualities." Too accurate, IMO.

>>30408868
Believe it not, people used to hate Cadance and Shining Armor for that reason among others

Not that you'd now, being a newfag and all

>>30408893
>Even if a character has quite a number of the traits described below, Mary-Sueness can still be averted by a good enough explanation for why they're there.

>>30408896
i never heard anybody shitting on them, just like i didn't for celestia, luna, discord, or starswirl you revisionist fuck. cadance was introduced as a princess and i personally just considered her as i did celestia/luna
>shining armor
>example of powercreep/gary stu
what? his cutie mark is a shield, and all he has shown to be good at is leading the GUARDS and making a big protective bubble. he isn't like princess twilight flying through space and time neither walking nor floating half the time just teleporting herself and others to her, not even glimmer does that. starlight seems more specialized in illusionary magics

>>30408924
They DID came out of nowhere.

>>30408902
>averted by a good enough explanation
Why is Starlight so good at magic? Why was her back story so tragic? How come she has no flaws that hinder her? Is there a particular reason she's stealing the hero's job?

>>30408943
its established in the show that twilight and shining weren't as close as they used to be, i feel like they pulled their introduction off well. werent the two living in crystal empire at the time too?

>>30408924
>cadance was introduced as a princess
I'm the only one who found it odd that a princess was babysitting toddlers?

But I guess it's easier to get a job when you're one of the 3 alicorns in the world.
>Hi! I'm princess Cadence, I'm here about the interview for a babysitter.
>Hmm... what are your credentials?
>I'm an Alicorn.
>Hmm... anything else?
>I'm a princess of sweet endless love as stated by my cutie mark.
>You're hired!!!

>>30408924
>more specialized in illusionary magics
Didn't she hack Starswirl's spell? I know I heard Twi repeatedly mention on the show how powerful Starlight's magic is. Its actually the reason they didn't want to let her go because she was too dangerous so Twilight had the idea to turn her into a pupil... Or something like that. It was in the season 5 finale.

>>30408973
Cadence and Shining were introduced in S2 finale, A Canterlot Wedding.
Until then, Twi was an only child.
CW gave her a brother, one that was her best friend even tho she supposedly had no friends before, and it gave her an alicorn babysitter.

Again, Shining and Cadence were never mentioned before, even tho they are a big deal in universe.
Basically, they were shoehorned to sell toys.
I mean, PINK ALICORN PRINCESS!?! What kid would say no to that! There are only two? Well, ret her in! No ties in to established story? make her marry MCs never before mentioned brother!

It was beginning of the end.

Im still in shock we managed to turn her into something so silly and lovable.

>>30408970
>why is her magic so good
she devoted her life to studying too

>back story so tragic
it wasn't, her friend got his cutie mark first which pushed the two apart and she took it personally because her character is irrational. thats literally it, thats all that drove her to want a society without cutie marks to drive people away

>no flaws
short minded (doesn't think things through), probably autistic, bitch in general and a control freak

>stealing the heroes job
she again is much more reckless than twilight, the table in the more recent episode sent starlight because twilight would have never done what she did on a whim which appears to have been the only solution but the whole table thing i never liked to start with despite being a good excuse to flesh out the world and show off new places like manehatten and yakyakastan

>>30409026
Nope, she wasnt supposed to be an alicorn in the first place.
But hey, little girls love princesses, so make her another alicorn princess, it will sell well.
Also, wasn't that episode somewhat around British royal wedding?

>>30409074
Basically, she fucks things up and gets away with it.

>>30409096
thats the plot of 90 percent of the episodes in the show for every character

>>30409074
Where did she study her magic? Who taught her? Why didn't she write letters to Sunburst? Couldn't she go to Canterlot to visit him? How come even though she almost destroyed time because being short sighted, (not including the probable things) everyone just forgave her? And why is she stealing the hero's job. Its like she's the "mini-Twilight" but they'd never call her that on screen, right?

>>30409106
I miss S1&2 when episodes actually had some morals in them.

>>30409051
we didn't know she was an only child, just how were they supposed to introduce the characters without them being important to the show? again i think they lived in crystal empire which twilight never had even been to before season 3 finale. the main 6 were still getting to know each other let alone the rest of the family. characters like fluttershy and rainbow dash also had family members introduced similarly with a plot relating to them

>>30409112
books, self taught, the two characters stopped being friends when he got his cutiemark, she didn't want to see him, because in the end nothing came of it

discord did everything starlight has done without having any explanations of his backstory at all

>>30409106
The other characters fuck things up but they get to live with their consequences and try to make things right.

When Starlight fucks things up, everyone still loves her for no easily explainable reason. Sometimes, like in Celestial Advice, she was even congratulated for fucking up.

>>30409154
>Celestial Advice
Oops not Celestial Advice. Meant that one where the sisters swap CMs.

>>30407900
Controls the heavens, defeated/ banished great evils and brought peace to a magical land for 1000 years isn't godlike enough for you? Keep in mind, this is a pseudo greco-roman mythology setting, not a biblical one. The bar for godhood is much lower.
>>30407904
"Defeated" by another god (there was always the question of whether she let herself be captured to let events play out).

>>30409089
Bong here, it was. Pretty fantastic timing on hasbros part all things considered.

>>30409146
>books, self taught
Can you tell me the episode this was explained on the show? I don't ever remember her mentioning she was self taught. She said she studied magic for years but studied under who? Studied where? There's only one magic school afaik.


>the two characters stopped being friends when he got his cutiemark, she didn't want to see him, because in the end nothing came of it
Can you tell me which episode she said she didn't want to see him for any reason? I don't remember Starlight ever not wanting to see Sunburst. If you're referring to the Crystalling, that's a completely different insecurity there.

>discord did everything starlight has done without having any explanations of his backstory at all
Yes because when he shows up, he still plays the role of an ass hole to torment most of the mane 6. He's only really nice to Fluttershy. He also doesn't drop his past in narratives like it says so in tvtropes for Mary Sues but Starlight does that several times. In fact Discord completely unapologetic about his past and hardly ever mentions it.

>>30409146
Idiot, before S3 premiere there was no Crystal Empire, it appeared after 1k years together with Sombrero.

>>30409167
Fantastic for toyselling, you mean.

>>30409141
>>30409154
i dont understand what you mean

>>30409184
why not just watch season 5 and 6 instead of continuing to have me spoonfeed you exactly the information i got from the show to my recollection

>>30409184
Yeah, the traits don't apply if they can be explained properly but the show doesn't explain much about Glimmy so yeah, people think she's a Mary Sue.

Look at her reformation. Its super rushed. When she hangs out with the mane 6, its in montage form. People think her backstory's weak because she went psycho when her boyfriend left her.

Maybe there weren't enough episode to build up Glimmy's character or its just story telling time constraint. You can only fit so much in a 22 minute toy commercial.

>>30409051
Reminder that it all came from a Toys-R-Us cardboard display referencing the actual royal wedding taking place in England at the time.
>>30409146
>again i think they lived in crystal empire
No. The crystal empire had disappeared for a millennium, and only re-appeared in the S3 premiere. They were both living in Canterlot the whole time, same as her until a few months prior.

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>>30409239
the whole start of the show is focused around twilight having divorced herself from reality to read books and therefore not knowing the true "power of friendship". this is the third scene of the show, her blowing off friends to read more about nightmare moon. she isn't friendless she is careless with her friends (of which 6(7?) season later these characters are finally revisited) and its not surprising that she would have been disconnected from her brother when she left to go to school

>>30409204
Thats why i specified hasbro rather than the writers.

>>30409210
>why not just watch season 5 and 6 instead of continuing to have me spoonfeed you exactly the information i got from the show to my recollection

Nah dude. I'm completely familiar with Cutie Remark and Crystalling. Everything you mentioned is just pure head canon. They were never in those episode.

Starlight's a Mary Sue because the traits apply to her and the show doesn't spend any time giving exposition to why she's like this. Its like DHX is intentionally not trying to build up her character or something. Few seconds of exposition for something isn't that hard.

>>30409146
>i think they lived in crystal empire which twilight never had even been to before season 3 finale
This makes me feel old if you don't know this. The Crystal Empire was banished by King Sombra for a thousand years. Cadence and Shining Armor couldn't possibly be living there unless they're over a thousand years old.

When the Kingdom reappeared, Cadence and Shining Armor moved there to rule it cuz, y'know, alicorn princess and toys.

>>30409306
If they throw a curveball and have the finale be that shes been using mind control / memory magic this entire time it'd be amazing.

>>30409306
every single scene in season 6 episode 1 of starlights past has her reading books and studying, then describing how she felt when he got his cutie mark and she didn't. obviously i am suscept to error as i may be misremembering things but regardless much of the information ive gathered was from speculation. i can only assume she still went to magic school only after her friend, as well as i can only assume she held a grudge because she no longer hung out with him or kept into contact, and that starlight flat out says this experience is what led to her wanting a society without cutie marks which is enough supporting evidence to say that she didn't want to talk or see him until she later reformed and therefore didn't see cutie marks as a bad thing

>>30409263
>when she left to go to school
Left where, exactly? She's from Canterlot. They all are.

And what was Twi's second-to-last line in the series premiere? "Now that I know how wonderful friendship can be, I have to leave Ponyville" or something to that effect? Given what we saw in CW, she should already know. It doesn't wash.

>>30409386
left home? you know i live 10 minutes away from my dying grandmother in a nursing home and i considered us close despite me never visiting her anymore

>>30409403
Well, that's on you. Twilight is a magical horse-girl; she's better people.

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>Glimmerfags will defend this

>>30409554
There's nothing really to defend
Glimglam and Bookhorse could easily be seen as on-par or close enough in their magical ability, not to mention that Glimglam had the advantage in every engagement she made with Twilight where she won.
People like to disregard that Glimmer gained really powerful magical ability at the cost of any genuine social skills

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>>30409611
>be Twilight Sparkle
>student of the fucking ruler of Equestria
>study magic for your whole life and be born with a natural gift for it
>wield the most powerful weapon in the world
>defeat all sorts of horrors
>become an alicorn and princess and get even more potent magic with it
>job to a random fucking unicorn who can pull spells out of her ass that nobody else can do
Nope, Glim totally isn't a mary sue
No sirree

>>30409713
Being powerful =/= a Mary Sue. End this meme.

>>30409816
This.
It's like saying that Dr. Manhattan is a Mary Sue...

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>>30409713
>"she fucks up all the time and is always forgiven"
>"she's too perfect"
?

>>30409713
Anon, being really good at something doesnt make them a Mary Sue, especially considering how she has the social skills of pre-Ponyville Twilight and a guilt complex bigger than Luna's

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>>30404259
In my personal opinion
Nyx is better than Starlight

>>30410206
In my personal opinion
you are completely right.

>>30404259
>debunk able
>two apparent gods celestia and luna
>give me a break
>hmm sounds familiar
did a highschool freshman write this?

>>30404259
she is blatantly a mary sue spoiled by the universe just like fucking twilight is