>Daybreak and Nightmare Moon only show up after Celestia appears

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>>30126640
Its an interesting idea for sure, one that I wouldnt mind seeing be explored, but part of me feels this wont ever be addressed again. I pray my feelings are just that, I really like it.

>>30126640
Celestia being the big bad not even Glimmer's plot sword can pierce would be fucking awesome

>>30126640
>mlp
>deep writing

>>30126640
It also sounds a little like it's directed to Glimmer, because a lot of that applies to Glimmer as well.

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>>30126640
>>30126700
Not to mention she mopped the floor with Nightmare Moon in direct combat.

Rather sad, because she looks rather valiant fighting Daybreaker than just being there as another villain fighting for power and I ended up rooting for her a bit. inb4 NIGHTMARE MOON DID NOTHING WRONG

>>30126640
Daybreaker is so much better than anything the fandom came up with.

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>>30126796
>she mopped the floor with Nightmare Moon in direct combat.
PRAISE THE SUN

>>30126783
You raise a very good point. It may have been glimmers fears projecting onto celestia.

>>30126783
>>30127030
I think that's possible.

>>30126640
Why does this show for six year old girls have such evil imagery?

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>>30126783
>>30127030
Agreed.

When Celestia goes nuclear, nobody will be able to tell just by looking at her.

>>30127107
Every little girl wants to grow up into a villain and dominate the world.

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>>30126640
It was Starlight's dream though. It wouldn't really fit for Daybreaker to be there if she was Celestia's fear. Celestia wasn't even dreaming

>>30126640
It's funny to me that Celestia said "You will never exist again" This is a dream. She never existed. Although here's hoping Daybreaker is the final boss. It'd be pretty fitting

>>30126783
Damn.

>>30127190
Hillary is every girl's idol?

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>>30127030
>>30127075
>>30127135
>>30127226

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>>30127335
>you can't have a nightmare
>if you never dream

>>30126798

this this this

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>>30126640
>"Suddenly, it was like Celestia was on fire! She actually glowed with fury, and her voice echoed in the air."
>"We all looked over at the dragon, and he was shaking in absolute fear. He immediately gave me the Crystal Heart and zipped into the crystalline mountain.From the look of terror in his eyes, I'm sure he'll never be a problem again."
>"Celie shook off her angry glow, becoming herself again. She didn't quite remember everything that had happened, but we all agreed that we should never make her angry."
>~Journal of the Two Sisters

>>30127449
This is from the book?

>>30127357
You know I used to assume that was just a metaphor for nobody having problems with diffrences if there are no diffrences but maybe starlight was suppressing the dreams of her townsfolk so luna would not catch her.

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>>30127449
And I heard, as it were
The noise of thunder
One of the glim beasts sang "come and see"
And I saw, and behold a white horse

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>>30127449
PRAISE

>>30127456
Yes, as narrated by Luna. It's also canonically the only time we know of that Celestia completely lost her temper.

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>>30127449

>>30127468
That might've been that way, actually. I never really thought of that but it makes sense.

>>30127449
Speaking of that book, doesn't it mention Luna can talk to animals?

When Timberwolves were mentioned, I thought we were going to see that happen

>>30127604
I was expecting her to just search for the timberwolves herself yeah.

>>30127449
Celestia OP pls nerf

>>30126640
I like to see it this way. Starlight's fear was just the two sisters fighting. Celestia's fear was turning into Daybreaker. They both sorta combined into one dream.

>>30127736
Celestia wasn't dreaming though, I don't think it can be seen as her fear

>>30127820
Are we sure Daybreaker actually was part of Starlights dream? The dreams never interacted with Luna before when she was doing her thing, I don't think, and Daybreaker talked to her.

>>30127468
DEEPEST

>>30126640

And now I want to cum inside Daybreaker. Thanks for yet another new fetish, DHX.

>>30127864
Considering Celestia went directly into Starlight's dream, yes.

You do raise an interesting point about the dreams not interacting with her, but that's also because there's never been a need for it yet. She has interacted with the Dreams though, I'm pretty sure she told the RUSTY HORSESHOE Pony to STOP, she's banished other fears too and interacted with Ponies in their dreams.

Seriously though that is an interesting point. I just can't imagine it being Celestia's dream, because she wasn't even sleeping for one, and for another, she didn't believe those things

>>30126640
I think this stuff basically confirms that Evil gives a massive power boost seeing that Luna got amped enough to briefly withstand all the elements being blasted at her as well.

There was also all that stuff with Nightmare Rarity overwhelming Luna briefly too.

>>30127929
It's less Evil, more like a power switch that gets unlocked when these two really want to flip shit.

>>30126640
doomsday event

>>30127913
It's dream magic, she is essentially connecting her mind to another and appearing within it, information exchange is possible. She doesn't need to be asleep for her nightmares to bleed over into Glimmer's.

Luna's probably practiced enough to keep her own mind in check when interacting with other ponies in their dreams, but Celestia would likely have just been fumbling around with it.

All headcanon and guesswork, though, I doubt the writers were thinking this deeply about things.

>>30128055
I don't know, I can't see it being Celestia's dream, because then that makes it her own tantibus, which isn't as easy to destroy as "you're not real"

>>30127030
Whoa that's actually deep

>>30128090
It was Starlights dream, but the Tantabus is able to get into other pony's dreams if whoever it's attached to even thinks about them.

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>>30127960
There's also that they said that strong emotions leads to strong magic in All Bottled Up.

I'm guessing what this is establishing is that a powerful pony giving themselves over completely to a strong negative emotion like fear, anger or jealousy would cause them to transform into a much more powerful being, at the cost of the self.

If this were a different show, I'd assume it was all leading up to something. And Celestia's "nightmare form" for lack of a better term, does remind me of something.

>>30127960
Strong emotions seem to have that effect on the sisters. Rage for Daybreaker and despair for Nightmare Moon. Powerful emotions seem to effect powerful unicorns too, like Glimglam. She mentioned it once or twice.

>>30127929
>>30127960
Standard 'world of cardboard' situation.
Daybreaker and nightmare moon are what happens when your deities stop giving as much of a shit.

>>30127449
>>30127536
The sun is a deadly lazer.

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>>30129340
Not anymore, there's a blanket!

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>>30126640
>the world either ends in fire or it ends in darkness

I fucking love this show.

>>30129908
You know... For kids!

>>30129908
wtf i love my little pony now

>>30129908
I still can't get over the fact that they actually did it. They used the perfect opportunity for Daybreaker, without ruining the status quo and making it a completely game-changing event. I think at this point I can safely say that with the Lady Writers at helm this season is shaping up to be one of the best.

>>30127449
Note: Celestia said "you will never exist again" to Day Breaker.

Again, as in she actually existed once.

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>>30126640
I'm a bit perplexed.

I don't understand how it could have been Celestia's fears, given it's not her dream. It'd be weird if out of nowhere her nightmare just came along, because it had little to do with NMM. She was just about to step up and defeat her before Daybreaker showed up.

But that said, if it's all just Starlight's interpretation, and Starlight's fears, why would Celestia sort of doubt herself and not just instantly banish it like she did after the talk with Luna?

>>30130901
I hope it's foreshadowing that she will actually appear again.

>>30131014
tantabus was just lunas magic and/or tulpa getting away from her, but it was still just a part of her all along.

>>30131014
Because even though it was something that glimmer was afraid of creating, it scared celestia too.
Even luna who is very experienced in dealing with nightmares is exhausted after a night of doing it, i don't think fighting them is as simple as poofing them out of existence.

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>>30131085
>it scared celestia too
Scared, in terms of fear of her (Daybreaker's) power?
Or in terms of the things she was saying?

Celestia knew all along neither NMM or Daybreaker were real. Surely that's all you need for a Nightmare to disappear?

>>30131036
So you think it was Celestia's fear?

>>30131128
>So you think it was Celestia's fear?
i believe it was celestias repressed ideas coming forward in this place where fantasy is made reality

>>30131128
I'd have to rewatch the episode but i think it genuinely upset celestia to see her and her sister in their fallen forms.
It does take strength to banish fear and self doubt like that, i mean consider a horror movie, you know it's not real but it still scares you.

>>30131128
It might have originated within Starlight but was close enough to what Celestia herself feared to have a bad effect on her, is what I'd say.
Like if you tell someone that what they think is love is really a lie. It's broad enough to apply to anyone but might still hit a person directly.

>>30130901
>>30131023

I think she was in fact referring to Nightmare Moon in that bit. If I recall correctly, the line she said was "that will not happen, and you will never exist again" right as the camera flipped to Nightmare on the floor.

Not trying to be a buzzkill. Hell, I'd be okay with Daybreaker returning. That's just the way I saw that scene.

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>>30131169
>>30131162
>It does take strength to banish fear and self doubt like that
Even though she's the Dream Walker? Meaning, it was Starlight's dream, so usually you'd think the one having the dream would be the one able to banish the Nightmare, since it's their fears manifested.

You both think it was Starlight's fear though, right? One that manifested and even despite being just Starlight's, shook Celestia because it was an evil version of herself, who had some immoral points and even though she didn't agree with them, it was worrisome seeing them in form and represented an alternate possibility that she didn't want to come to pass.

This was then banished when Celestia and Luna realised they appreciate each others roles a lot, and realise how much they need each other, breaking the evil possibility. That all line up? Just confirming

I watched the episode back and Luna specifically says

>In order to defeat Daybreaker, you need only to trust in your strength, as I do.
What strength? How would that help? I thought I was getting a grasp of it with the above but I'm a bit lost again

Also if it is just Starlight's fear, where would Daybreaker even come from? Seems a bizarre Nightmare to have, considering we've only seen Nightmare Moon, as had Starlight.

>>30131150
Bit random though, no? It was Starlight's dream, would be weird if it could be interrupted with Celestia's, who's not sleeping, even if she's in the dream realm

>>30131713
well either glimmer is extremely insightful to how ponies think or celestia had some influence in the dream.

>>30127493
and she that sat on him had Horn and Wings; and a Crown was given unto her: and she went forth Conquering, and to Conquer

>>30126640
Give power a chance!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jynTNYSKNuk

>>30126640
Daybreaker exist in one of Parallel timelines created by Starlight Glimmer.

>>30132049
Oh shit, probably that barren wasteland that lead to her eventual reformation.

>>30132049

daybreaker explains herself quite well: if princess luna can turn into nightmare moon, celestia can turn into daybreaker. she's a starlight glimmer OC. and she rules.

>>30129908
Damn Daybreaker looks mean

So guys slightly off topic but on topic of Daybreak. Did you know two months ago someone had a 100% accurate picture of her?
https://derpibooru.org/1393389

>>30132999
BEFORE SHE WAS EVEN ANNOUNCED ANYWHERE ELSE.

>>30132999
Yeah maybe he saw something, who knows desu. It'd have to be a hell of a coincidence but it's not worth everyone getting on that guys ass to find out.

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>>30126796
I think it's an interesting dynamic, having a character be so bitter about being overshadowed by someone that they turn evil, only for their evil self to in turn be overpowered by that someone's own evil self. Very tragic if you think about it. I agree it made NMM seem briefly sympathetic, like the underdog.

I love when this show sparks my imagination.

>>30127030

I think it's a mish mash of both their fears and insecurties essentially.

>>30131713
>What strength? How would that help? I thought I was getting a grasp of it with the above but I'm a bit lost again
Bump on this.

And sort of this whole post

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I haven't seen the episode yet but HOLY FUCKING SHIT THIS SEASON HAS SERIOUSLY SURPASSED SEASON 6
NEVER EVER? NEVER AGAIN!
EVIL CELESTIA FOR FINALE WHEN

>>30126640

Dafuq?

>>30130901
According to The Journal of The Two Sisters, she actually did go Daybreaker on a dragon once, and every agreed to never make her angry or something.

I'm adopting the headcanon that the Ashlands Timeline is what happens when Celestia decides to deal with threats herself.

>>30133517
>>30131713
Anyone?

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>>30134783
I don't know. We've explained what we think might happen, but it's all conjecture, so pick your own headcanon.

>>30134815
>In order to defeat Daybreaker, you need only to trust in your strength, as I do.

Trying to get to understand that desu. I get what you're saying though.
It's strange there's no real telling whose fears they were that manifested.

>>30126640
i want daybreaker to break my penus

Luna's magic affects dreams, which is why she battles nightmares. At some point of Celestia arriving to GlimGlam's dream, Daybreaker manifested and started to feed off Celestia's fears.

With Celestia's appearance, GlimGlam thought of Nightmare Moon, so Nightmare Moon appeared. I would guess that Daybreaker appeared, because both Celestia and GlimGlam feared she would come too. Celestia was surprised by it, but Daybreaker immediately started to talk with Celestia, so she was more of Celestia's nightmare, rather than GlimGlam's. Anycase, Celestia feared her more.

Just looking it from the writing aspect, Daybreaker shifted the focus from GlimGlam to Celestia and then it became Celestia's battle against her self-doubt.

>>30135172
Yeah I think it being a mix makes sense considering how Daybreaker didn't even seem to address Glimmer.

>Celestia turns evil and nearly doubles her power
>But has to pack it in and cancel her evil reign due to a hailstorm

Or she gets defeated by any manner of other things. A particularly steep hill, maybe? She chokes on a peanut? It's Celestia here. Defeat is her middle name.

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>>30126640
>>30127030
>>30127075
>>30127135
>>30127357

>>30136115
https://youtu.be/OO_Fh1bym3Y

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>>30126760
we can only hope

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>>30126640
>Makes you wonder if she'll ever give into the temptation eventually?
I don't think so. Because... how the heroes would defeat her? She is a more powerful version of Celestia and she defeated Nightmare Moon easily. They don't have the Elements of Harmony anymore. Even if Celestia, Luna, Discord, Twilight and Starlight fight together against Daybreaker i don't think they would win. The writers would need some bullshit to defeat her and that alone would make the whole thing garbage.

>>30136481
You're really overstating Daybreakers Power. From the Dream Sequence she's just above Nightmare Moon. Discord would make light work of it