If unicorns can transform stuff with their imagination, why does

Most unicorns are shit at magic.

>>29897189
Even Trixie managed to do that.

>>29897189
Even if you use that as an excuse it still doesn't make sense. Why does Rarity have to physically get any materials for her dress, when she could just imagine any design she wants on to a plain white dress? Why does Sunburst suck at magic, when all you need to do is think about what you want to happen in your head, and make it real? Why even have written spells at all? What are they going to say? Think about growing a tree from the ground? Really it was just a shotty way to make Trixie relevant in terms of magic without spending time explaining why she couldn't do it in the first place.

See this is what shitty writing leads too

>>29897186
>Season 4
Just thinking up magical things leads to evil, but it comes from a dark, ancient spell that acts like an addictive parasite to the unicorn's mind
>Season 7
Just thinking up magical things leads to wacky adventures, and most unicorns can do it incredibly easily.

Can the worfing get any worse at this point?

>>29897186
Anon, have you ever read fantasy? There are hundreds of possible drawbacks to magic. The most common would be the transformation being temporal.
There could be also a magic affinity factor. For example, Trixie could easily have far above average magical resources but simultaneously be shit at learning by the book - it's a very common plot.

Writers don't want to create actual rules for magic in Equestria to keep it working as a plot-enabling device. I would prefer it to have the rules, but so far it's vague enough to reason for it to not be omnipotent.

>>29897186
Ponies are too stupid to realize what counterfitting is.

>>29897232
This is actually the best reasoning, so far.

>>29897232
*Earth ponies are too stupid

Pegasuses are just lemon stealing whores, they don't use bits.

>>29897189
Most likely this, transfiguration, classically, is a very high level spell. Most unicorns most likely can't even come close to doing it.

>>29897193
Trixie is above average.

>>29897202
Why Rarity seems decent at magic, I'd wager that she couldn't preform a transfiguration spell.

>>29897186
See above, it's probably just easier to make/grow things then to get all the advanced unicorns to make everything. That would also really slow down the development of new products. Those high level unicorns would also be wasting their time doing this, instead of more important things.

As for bits, there's probably an enchantment on them to prove they're real, or something about gold being insanely difficult to transfigure, again, like in most "classical" magic text.

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>>29897264
And neither could Trixie until.

>>29897270
Again, Trixie has been shown to be a more magically inclined unicorn than most.

Here's how we solve this thing. Trixie already knew the spell but wasn't able to perform it becuse she misdirected her focus. That's what Starlight was referring to saying she had to picture the object in her mind. One thing is reading and studing and another one is actually doing and performing what you've red. Think about a surgeon for example.

>>29897274
That still doesn't discount that before imagination, spells where very hard to do. Twilight struggled to teleport herself, despite being one of the most magically gifted unicorns, and being able to do the latter half of this post>>29897277. But Trixie could just imagine the table to the spa with no problems at all.

>>29897280
Can be explained as a precise controlled self-teleportation vs random teleportation of an arbitrary object to an arbitrary place.

>>29897186
IRL we can grow meat in vats yet we still employ cows, for many of the same reasons.

>>29897350
cows are cheaper plus their meat has richer nutritious value

>>29897332
No it can't. If it's hard to teleport yourself, then it's the spell that is difficult to do, not thinking of where you're going. Even if you just don't care where you're going, you would still struggle with casting the spell in the first place because of the difficulty of the spell. Again it was a shotty way to make Trixie relevant in magic.

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>>29897186
>or some shit
Bits are actually a fiat currency created from horse turds and Celestia keeps all the real gold locked away in Fort Knotts.

>>29897361
>their meat has richer nutritious value
The meat we grow in vats is literally identical to meat slaughtered from an animal, because it's grown from the same cells. At this point, we only murder animals because it's cheaper than doing the right thing.

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Trixie's special talent is magic not magical tricks. Wand symbolizes real magic and also great power.
As we know misinterpreting your talent happens.

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>>29897367
I didn't realize you knew magic, anon. Sorry for my foolishness.

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>>29897414
You don't know me, bitch

>>29897424
Is it The Bitch or just Bitch? Anyway, I'm dad.

>>29897424
Stop pretending to be me bitch.

>>29897414
It's not my fault I can why that made imagination a reason that magic exists. Without making Trixie being able to use magic without a hitch, then All bottled Up wouldn't have happened. I wouldn't even be surprised if it's never brought up again after this episode.

>>29897456
>It's not my fault I can why
Don't cast your fancy spells on me, demon.

Seriously speaking, anon, there are countless interpretations of magic in fantasy. The variant I've suggested have zero problems fitting into MLP so far.

If you had a magic theory for MLP and this episode had proven it wrong, rather then claiming there are problems with the show's interpretation of magic start with doubting yours.

It's very likely that staff behind the show have very vague guidelines regarding the usage of magic (if any) and use it just as a plot-enabling device.
But just in case they do have their guidelines - there are still several magic theories that can fit into the current MLP lore without any problems and without making Twilight look weak compared to Trixie and Starlight.

>>29897496
There are plenty of interpretations to magic you are correct. But making imagination why magic works now after seven years is beyond stupid. Again why can't Sunburst use any magic at all? Is he so devoid of creative thought that he just can't do it? Why does Starswirl have two incomplete scrolls just laying around in his lab? If all he need was imagination, then not only should he have completed those spells, but they wouldn't even be called theories in the first place. Why would Twilight need any written spell to fix the Crystal Heart? Couldn't she just imagine it completely fixed? I'm not bother that they are adding stuff, I'm bother by how blatant they just made something up without care just so a one time plot point could work.

>>29897186
It's almost like magic is an inconsistent and garbage narrative device that's been implemented astoundingly badly in this show.

>>29897186
First of all, spells like transfiguration and teleport can only be made by ponies that actually study and practice magic itself, "wizard ponies" like Twilight and Starlight. The majority of the unicorns use their magic to simply levitate stuff to do properly their daily chores or job. That's is a normal unicorn. Remember, "wizard ponies" are far away from being the majority.

As Starlight recently said, nothing can simply disappear, with that we can easily say that nothing can simply appear as well (with the exception of Discord but he is a god) i don't recall a moment that a "wizard pony" made something simply appear (if it happened in the show, remember me) when they want to make something appear they simply transform it using other object. Now, imagine how futile it would be, with small objects they would manage to create only small portions of things, they would need huge things to create meaningful portions, BUT not even Twilight and Starlight can do magic freely, there is a point that they simply run out of it and become exausted, their horns stop working. So, the "wizard ponies" would be constantly exausted and out of magic trying to create money or other things like that. It simply wouldn't work.

>>29897526
>But making imagination why magic works now after seven years is beyond stupid
There are several magic theories that involve imagination. Most of them prevent achieving omnipotence via imagination. Pairing magical resources/affinity with the power of imagination is the most common way. For example:
>why can't Sunburst use any magic at all?
He has minuscule magical resources, so while he knows the actual casting process perfectly, he can't provide necessary resources to fire it off.
>Why does Starswirl have two incomplete scrolls just laying around in his lab?
Because Starswirl worked on much more complex concepts that require you to bend multiple rules of reality simultaneously.
Can you solve for the square root of 2 in your head? That's also "imagination" in a sense.
>If all he need was imagination
No one in the whole show ever said that. Imagination was stated as the key component for two specific magical actions - transfiguration and teleportation, which are incidentally considered to be elementary magical actions in many fantasy magic theories. Usually resource-hungry but ultimately very simple.

Your idea of imagination working for literally everything is just a baseless assumption.

>Why would Twilight need any written spell to fix the Crystal Heart?
Because Crystal Heart is a complex ancient relic that can't be "imagined completely fixed" due to:
a) It's sheer complexity
or
b) Its innate magic flows that disrupt any attempts to affect it directly, so one needs a specific spell to work with it.

There are no problems with magic in MLP as of now. I won't bet for the future, but for now, it's perfectly fine.

>>29897258
>lemon stealing whores
I chuckled.

>>29897590
>He has minuscule magical resources, so while he knows the actual casting process perfectly, he can't provide necessary resources to fire it off.
Then why can Trixie suddenly cast these spells, when before she fit into the minuscule magical resources?

>Because Starswirl worked on much more complex concepts that require you to bend multiple rules of reality simultaneously.
That doesn't explain why they're incomplete. Even more so when magic ignores complex things such as time travel and foretelling your destiny

>No one in the whole show ever said that. Imagination was stated as the key component for two specific magical actions.
That's because it wasn't a point ever until now. Twilight had to read about the temporary wing spell, and it was.
>Usually resource-hungry but ultimately very simple.
that was what was keeping "just use your imagination" away. Every high tier spell that Twilight cast was shown to put some strain on her, no matter how good she was. One of those was teleportation, and now since imagination comes into play, and we have been show that even a low tier unicorn can cast the spell with no problems, it undermines what was shown before, and the question of if Trixie can do it, why not every unicorn under the sun. Especially those that went to Celestia's school.

>b) Its innate magic flows that disrupt any attempts to affect it directly, so one needs a specific spell to work with it.
It's broken, usually in fantasies when an ancient relic breaks it either loses all magical power, or releases it in a massive explosion. There would be nothing stopping them from zapping the thing, and putting it back together.

>>29897391
>the right thing
>implying animals have rights
Also there are many things that affect the taste of beef. The breed, the climate, the grass, the cow's state of mind at the kill, etc.

>>29897385
Fort Poknotts

>>29897659
>she fit into the minuscule magical resources?
Who told you that? She fits into above average magical resources and close to zero technique. I repeat - that's one of the most common concepts out there.
>That doesn't explain why they're incomplete.
Why? It explains exactly that.
>Even more so when magic ignores complex things such as time travel
Yeah, in the form of a complex spell written by Starswirl. The one that requires actual chanting/written formula to work, as well as an interdimensional beacon to reach its full potential.
>Twilight had to read about the temporary wing spell
Which is technically a spell that creates an extra pair of limbs on the affected - not necessarily on the caster, which is important -and links them to their neural system allowing full control. The spell has all the reasons to be too hard to pull off with just a simple "imagine" transfiguration. Twilight even explicitly states that "fuck that spell, we walk on clouds now".
>One of those was teleportation
I repeat: precise self-teleportation. Conceptually, this and what Trixie did are very different things, with the former being vastly harder, thus putting a higher strain on the user.
>even a low tier unicorn can cast the spell with no problems
Disregarding the fact it's a different spell - what makes you think Trixie is a low-level unicorn? The main thing episode had shown was the fact Trixie might be actually gifted in magic - she just doesn't know how to use it properly.

How the fuck did you came to the conclusion "it shows that literally everyone and their dog can warp reality" - I have no idea. That's the most unintuitive thought process I've seen in a while.

>usually in fantasies when an ancient relic breaks it either loses all magical power, or releases it in a massive explosion
Firstly, there should be no "usually" in fantasy. Secondly, it lost its functionality, thus "power". It doesn't have to make it suddenly not magical at all.

>>29897719
>Who told you that?
The show. or does season 1 and 3 not count as examples for showing how weak Trixie's magic was.

>Why? It explains exactly that.
No it doesn't. Especially when unicorn Twilight and Glimmer can finish his time spell easily. Yes he did most of the work, but why not finish them in the first place.

>Which is technically a spell that creates an extra pair of limbs on the affected - not necessarily on the caster, which is important -and links them to their neural system allowing full control. The spell has all the reasons to be too hard to pull off with just a simple "imagine" transfiguration. Twilight even explicitly states that "fuck that spell, we walk on clouds now".
That's my point, before when why can't a unicorn just do this was ever brought up, you could point to Twilight struggling to cast something as to why they couldn't. Now that's a moot point, because you have Trixie just transfiguration on a whim, carelessly transfiguration an inanimate object, fusing it with a living thing, and even make the teacup bark, meaning that it's a dog in the form of a teacup.

>I repeat: precise self-teleportation. Conceptually, this and what Trixie did are very different things, with the former being vastly harder, thus putting a higher strain on the user.
They are not different though. If a teleport spell carries you two feet is hard to cast, then even if you cast it on some object willy nilly, it will still be hard to cast.

>what makes you think Trixie is a low-level unicorn?
Both Discord and Magic Duel.

>How the fuck did you came to the conclusion "it shows that literally everyone and their dog can warp reality" - I have no idea. That's the most unintuitive thought process I've seen in a while.
Because everyone has imagination, so if it doesn't take much to cast any form of transfiguration or teleportation spell, then why not everyone under the sun You can't even use they don't know the spell any more as to why they can't cast it.

1/2

>>29897204
you can blame season 1 and those writers since thats where we first see transformation magic. if you werent such an insufferable fan of the fandom spouting memes everywhere youd know this.

>>29897719
>Firstly, there should be no "usually" in fantasy.
Don't make me bring up the endless examples of this trope.

>Secondly, it lost its functionality, thus "power". It doesn't have to make it suddenly not magical at all.
It loses all sense of power since it can not use it. If a magic orb is broken, then it's just glass on the ground.

>>29897810
>showing how weak Trixie's magic was
But it wasn't showing that. Twilight didn't use the spells Trixie demonstrated in All Bottled Up. Her most similar spells shown during that time were controlled precise self-teleportation and transfiguration of living organic matter.
>Twilight finish his time spell easily.
She did not. She finished his fate alteration spell and she did it because she linked it to the magic of friendship which is something she's supposed to be even better than him
>Glimmer finish his time spell easily.
By applying his whole unedited spell to an interdimensional beacon Starswirl had no access to.
>Trixie just transfiguration on a whim
That's Trixie. One anecdotal example.
>fusing it with a living thing
She did not. She transfigured a non-living object into a simple golem.
>They are not different though.
I forgot you do magic, anon. Silly me.
>Both Discord and Magic Duel.
Discord was mocking her for inability to use magic. Magic Duel was about her wearing a magic-casting amulet. All of this can be applied to her if she just doesn't know "how" to use magic even if she has all the necessary potential to do it.
>it doesn't take much to cast any form of transfiguration or teleportation spell
Who told you that?
>Don't make me bring up the endless examples of this trope.
Don't make me call you stupid. "Should" doesn't mean "must".
>If a magic orb is broken, then it's just glass on the ground.
Who told you that?

>>29897202
Why can't you just picture a work of art in your head and then perform the proper hand motions to paint it anon? Because ability DOES dictate results.

>It's a unicornfags think all unicorns are Twilight-tier good at magic episode

>>29897810
Reminder that Trixie went to the School for Magical Unicorns and dropped out, meaning she has to have some magical talent.

>>29897944
>[...] rejected by Hasbro, on the grounds that Trixie never went to the School for Gifted Unicorns

>>29897957
Did you just put the word of Hasbro above the word of the Goddess-Empress?

>>29897975
All jokes aside, Hasbro is the one who ultimately decides what's canon and what's not.

>>29897193
If you will go back to the first Trixie episode, "Boast Busters", she is presented as really talented (+ the cutie mark). The point was that she just lied about how much she actually could do.

So theoretically she is one of the unicorns that should be able to do that things. I was surprised when she asked starlight to teleport her out of the manticore.

I really think that Trixie lacking talent in newer episodes might simply be a misunderstanding by the new writers what old writers meant.

>>29898020
Well, she actually never teleported herself in Boast Busters, but as far as I can remember, she could teleport flowers.

>>29898041
She didn't, but with the level of magic she presented (Using Rainbow against RD, changing the Rarity's hair etc.) it seemed weird that she was unable to teleport.

Especially after we saw Twilight do it multiple times without any problems and once ("Ticket Master") without even thinking about it.

>>29898078
I always thought of it as Trixie being above-average while Twilight was a prodigy.

>>29898041
She made flowers appear out of nowhere.

I'm perfectly fine with this being stated as "pure" tricks, as in not executing any magic above generic telekinesis with most of the work being done via equipment.

Her being a genuine trickster doesn't prevent her from having high magic aptitude paired with poor learning comprehension and/or peculiar mentality.

For all it's worth, Starlight might even be mostly self-taught in a sense of learning spells in a bit different way than other ponies usually do, so when she tries to teach them herself she explains it in this particular way which is coincidently the way that's suitable for Trixie. The whole "imagine this or that" thing might not be a regular way to learn magic.

Though, I prefer just "high potential, abysmal technique" version.

trixie was always good at magic, it was her fucking career. the writers were just too retarded to remember.

she bend the light from a rainbow to physically throw dash around, she trans-morphed rarity's hair into a rats nest, she's highly skilled with telekinesis, she summoned a storm cloud to shock dash, and an even bigger one against the giant bear.

>>29897944
So did Lyra, Minuette, Lemon Hearts, and Twinkleshine. Either these background pones have unseen wells of magical talent (which I'm not discounting), or the bar wasn't particularly high.

>>29898446
It's probably both. Not everyone in Celestia's school wanted to pursuit academic studies. They probably had a lot of magical talent so Celestia took them in but that doesn't mean everyone from that school ended up being archmages. I would imagine that some professions require above average magical skill. It's not improbable that Twilight's group just uses their education in more practical sense.
Twilight was Celestia's star pupil but I don't think others had to be on her level to get into the school. Her entrance test was said to be a personal set up by Celestia. For other students it was most likely the parent's choice to put their fillies there.

>>29898117
It might also be that while Twilight's magic talent is all of magic, Trixie's talent is a specialization in Illusionism or whatever. She'd just have to think outside the box and use it creatively and she'd be pretty formidable.

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>one spell requires you to concentrate on what you want to happen
>this is now sufficient for all spells

/mlp/ logic.

>>29899144
that's fucking dumb, trixie never did any illusions

>>29897186

Inefficient. It's cheaper in terms of energy and time to grow a crop of apples than to transform rocks into apples. Also, odds are the transformed object isn't going to be as good as growing one- nutritionally, in this case, but no imitation is going to be a perfect one.

We've got a wonderful example with the mirror pool, after all. The copies rapidly got dumb as rocks, being increasingly imperfect Pinkies.