If she wasn't so juiced up, would Celestia have some

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>>29829034
I'd like to think so. It was the moment that caused a lot of people to lose respect for her.

Destroyed a ton of headcannons about her being the most powerful thing in the universe as well.

>>29829034
>"Beaten" by Nightmare
Well, its the first big bad, I could let it off since the M6 needed to save the day.

>No-show for Discord
I dont get why, but she sorta helped Twilight at least...?

>Chrysalis
S-she was amplified....

>Plunder Vines
....

>Her ass backwards plan for Turk
....

>Jobbing to storm clouds
....

>>29829397
Chrysalis happened TWICE, the second time without her being any wiser and Chrysalis being much less juiced.

Seriously, did they not look into any defense mechanism after ACW against Changelings?

>>29829034
She might live a really long time and have a great magical background and knowledge of spells, but none of this makes her an all-powerful being or, dare I say, demigod like so many people want to believe.

I personally love that all those faggy headcanons and fan-fics got blown out of the water.

>>29829397
>Celestia is the Grand Kai of Equestria

>Back in the day, she was the toughest thing around

>Nowadays she's been spending too much time eating cake and sitting on her flank

>She's gonna have to get training if she wants to back into shape.

>>29829397
Celestia isn't much of a fighter...
Luna seems to be the strategist, she found Glimmers dream before it was too late and warned her of the danger they were in because she knew how fucked the situation was.I like to think Celestia is more of a pacifist.

>>29829429
>Or just make her student go do it.

>>29829034
Most likely. Nightmare reduced Equestria to a fucking wasteland in a very, very short time and Celestia was holding her own against Nightmare until she whipped out the Elements and pulled of the victory. Clearly the Sisters are no pushovers; the only reasonable explanation in my opinion is that Celestia was caught very, very surprised by the degree of power Chrysalis was pumping out.

>>29829413
>Seriously, did they not look into any defense mechanism after ACW against Changelings?
Especially since apparently Changelings are so bad at infiltration they casually drop their disguises and maniacally laugh about their plans in big, open, un-secured rooms now.

Fuck this shitty writing lately, honestly.

With Chrysalis it could have been that Celestia was holding back so she didn't kill the queen but wanted a surrender.
And Chrysalis was not holding back because she thought she already won.
Hell, she was even given a second chance from Glimmer when faced with a literal firing squad of magic users to surrender peacefully.
I think the only death we have seen is Sombra and that was from a relic and the relic gave zero shits about murder.

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>>29829196
>Destroyed a ton of headcannons about her being the most powerful thing in the universe as well.

It would have been very easy to preserve that and still set up a climax where someone else had to save the day.
>At the critical moment, have Chrysalis turn to blast Twilight (revenge for exposing her plot).
>Twilight would be dead meat, but Celestia jumps in the way of the blast
>Celestia takes the brunt of it...gets knocked out of the fight
>Story continues as normal
See, that way there is no direct one on one battle between Celestia & Chrysalis and Celestia's position in the story as Top Horse is preserved.

But the writers didn't think of that because they're bad at their jobs.

>>29829429
>Toughest thing around

Doubtful. We never really learn of any exploits of hers a thousand years after the Nightmare incident. Every other threat was confronted with her sister and/or McGuffins of Harmony in tow except Sombra/Tirek, who's sealings weren't given much detail.

>>29829430
>Luna is the strategist

Yeah, for one instance perhaps.
Otherwise, she's never around or has much say in anything unless its a mess of her own making or within her usual realm of dreamwork.
-
Celestia doesn't have to be a fighter, but she could at least be prepared or have some sort of contingencies set up that aren't gambits like S1's Nightmare case that 100% relied on Twilight making friends and finding the Elements.

Even if they fell through, it would have at least been an attempt on her part. Her only answer to anything is to leave it to Twilight, really. Clearly, she can only rule well in the most peaceful of times.

>>29829484
>Holding back
>When an enemy who threatened your capital and its subjects, captured your niece, deceived your trust towards your faithful student and will overthrow the peace you've helped maintained well in advance reveals itself before you

>>29829495
Like I said, she probably figured if she beat the shit out of Chrysalis she could beat a surrender out of her.
She isn't a killer.

>>29829467
>>29829490

I hate the "s-she was just h-holding back you guys!" trope. That's such bullshit, either she can do it or she can't. They try to pull that card every chance they can

>>29829509
I mean, it's really the only way to reconcile the one-the-one-hand staggering levels of destruction we see alicorns pump out, and on the other battles ending with barely a sputter and pop - much less a bang.

>>29829526
Twiggles was a nuke because she had the power of 4 alicorns stuffed in her like some fucked up German porn scene.
And Flurry is a demon.

>>29829526
>I mean, it's really the only way to reconcile the one-the-one-hand staggering levels of destruction we see alicorns pump out,

>Nightmare shoots lasers that are still weaker than the elements and didnt do grievous harm to Celestia
>Cadence manages a forcefield and does some Love Love Tenkyoken supercharge with her husbando
>Twilight needed to be supercharged by 3 other magical sources, as well as supposedly having massive magic potential
>Flurry was literally baby magic unbound, much like pumpkin and pound doing advanced magic shit, but a few times worse
>Celestia's magic power display limited to getting fucked by Chrysalis

>>29829533
I wasn't actually talking about Twiggles "by my powers combined" bit - though there are arguments about that too.

No, I was talking about how Nightmare Moon reduces Equestria to a blasted hellscape, including leveling mountain ranges. I'm talking about about how she casually throws blasts that rip buildings apart. I'm talking about how Celestia eats one of those blasts, and then stands up with no injuries and keeps on going.

>>29829562
>Nightmare Moon reduces Equestria to a blasted hellscape
...i'm sorry what?

The castle was probably made by Ikea.

>>29829562
>No, I was talking about how Nightmare Moon reduces Equestria to a blasted hellscape, including leveling mountain ranges.
Are we watching the same show?
The only time Equestria looked that way was in the final visited timeline, and there was no clear indicators of what caused Equestria to become a wasteland. Nightmare Moon's timeline seemed pretty "stable" by comparison.

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>>29829587
>>29829601
In the "Nightmare Wins" alternate reality, although the area around her palace is lush and forested the Table shows Equestria as a whole is fucked. Pic related - Twilight's just been standing on what ought to be central Equestria. It's been reduced to - well, the phrase 'moonscape' really does come to mind. Keep in mind as well this was a custom sprite created for this scene - it isn't seen anywhere else, not even in the "apocalypse reality".

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>>29829614
Another shot from another angle. Again, the only mountain showing (the one with the skull on it) is actually outside Equestria proper. All terrain features in Equestria have just been... flattened. Gone.

>>29829034
What i wanna know is who thought it was a good idea to ascend celestia to an alicorn, she jobs pretty much everything

>>29829526
magic seems to work a lot like electricity. a shitload of electricity hitting someone barely causes any kind of bang, but its damage is substantial. it takes quite a bit to effect the environment, like in the twilight or nightmare moon fight.

>>29829627
The mushrooms are still there.

>>29829614
>>29829627
This doesn't say that Nightmare herself was responsible for -all- of the changes. For starters, one could assert that any landscaping to her liking could also be done by those under her employ since she would have uncontested rule as well. The Everfree also growing much larger could easily have played a role in the change of scenery, too.

If not that, then as Twilight mentioned, each relapse through time was creating not just more cases of Bad Endings, but was destroying Equestria itself until they found themselves at the Wasteland version.

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>>29829627
Apocalypse verse map, for comparison. Lifeless, yes - but all the normal terrain features are there. The skull mountain from the second image is at bottom center.

Nightmare's kept everything nice and pretty for her palace and closest followers, but the rest of Equestria? Royally screwed. And a testament to the fact that - given only a few years at most, depending on how you assume time has passed in the show - a pissed-off alicorn can rearrange the terrain on a massive scale.

>>29829668
The mushrooms are outside of Equestria as well. They're the overseas landmass on the lower-left side of the map; check 826371 on DB for a clearer view of where they are.

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>>29829034
Yeah, that episode is kind of o_O; for me too.

Also, where was Luna? They're sisters, they're supposedly immortal goddesses, the most powerful things in the universe short of Discord (as others have said). Where was Luna during the Changeling invasion? Where is Luna... ever? We never see her. I get that the show is about Purplesmart and her friends, and that there are some fanfictions out there suggesting that Sunbutt is throwing these fights so that Purplesmart can get experience, because she's being groomed as an eventual replacement.

I love Sunbutt's character design, I love Nicole Oliver's voice acting for her. Sunbutt is mai waifu. It's hard for me to watch her getting knocked around. She's supposed to be a goddess who can move the sun and moon, not a woobie who has to be protected and rescued.

>>29829824
>goddesses
there not though, they acceded the same as twilight, flurry is the only naturally born alicorn

>>29829824
Luna was sleeping like a lazy NEET for the whole thing.
She skipped the fucking WEDDING

>>29829842
>This scrub doesn't read the lore

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>>29829842
Well, figuratively, compared to others. They are able to move the sun and moon with a thought. Unless Equestria is in a solar system VERY different from ours, the forces involved in slinging around just the moon, much less the sun. In our solar system, the sun is (according to Wikipedia) over three hundred thousand times the mass of the earth. Sunbutt just raises an eyebrow and slings it all over the sky like it ain't no thing. Now, maybe things are very different. Maybe the show is set in a place where the world is flat and the sun, moon, and stars are just lights in the sky. Still I was expecting her and her sister to be pretty damn powerful, at the very least quite a bit more so than the typical unicorn. Maybe not.

She's still mai waifu, though.

>>29829855
This makes Luna very qt

>>29829856
>reading the lore for a cartoon targeted towards 6 year old girls
>being this autistic for a cartoon targeted towards 6 year old girls

>>29829870
if i remember correctly the show says groups of unicorns used to do the same thing that luna and celestia do, so i would assume that its their connection to the sun and moon that makes it so easy for them

>>29829891
There's a very grimdark, verging on grimderp, fanfic about that, which says that Celestia and Luna were genetically engineered and grown in vats, and imbued with super-science "magical" powers for the specific purposes of telekinetically controlling nuclear fusion reactions in big reactors, and powerful yet precise telekinetic movement of massive objects at great distances.

It's "Days of Wasp and Spider" and it's so fucking dark I can't read more than a few chapters in. Basically, thousands of years before present-day Equestria, the planet's dominant species are the Diamond Dogs, who are the local apex predators and evolved there. They are more advanced than humans are today and created ponies to be slaves, and griffins to be expendable flying soldiers. The slaves revolted, their civilization collapsed, and their distant survivors are living in holes in the ground, occasionally popping up to do slave raids on pony villages because they remember that ponies are supposed to work for them, though they don't remember why. It's very well written--seriously, this author is better than a lot of the professional writers out there--but I could not enjoy reading a story about ponies suffering piteously and dying hideous deaths over and over and over.

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>>29829495
>We never really learn of any exploits of hers a thousand years after the Nightmare incident
True, but she has shown that she's no ordinary pone before.

Like in the episode where Twilight loses her shit and casts a want-it-need-it spell on her old doll, and eventually fucks up the brains of the entire town and completely loses control of the situation.
Celestia shows up, casts a quick poof of a spell, and literally everybody is back to normal again in an instant.

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>>29829891
>if i remember correctly the show says groups of unicorns used to do the same thing that luna and celestia do
At great personal cost though. After performing the ritual too many times, every unicorn involved ruins their ability to use magic. Celestia has been pulling double-shift with the moon and sun for over a thousand years now without breaking a sweat.

>>29829878
>posting on a chinese image board dedicated to pony self-insert fanfiction and soft-core horse porn

>>29829467
>the only reasonable explanation in my opinion is that Celestia was caught very, very surprised by the degree of power Chrysalis was pumping out
To me it seemed more like a statement of just how badly Shining Armor luvs his waifu.

Freaky bughorses aside, it was a cheesy finale, after all.

>>29829490
While reasonable, I think it was more important for the writers to characterize chrysalis in that moment.

Celestia had to be protective, but chrysalis had to be fixated and not an angry wild-swinger.

It may have been viable to have her absolutely swarmed with drones and occlude her strengths with opposing numbers.

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>>29829842
>they acceded the same as twilight
We don't actually know that.

Luna and Celestia were the first alicorns. When Luna says they've never seen an alicorn being born before, it could also mean that any other alicorns after them have always been ascended. And, quite naturally, Luna and Celestia wouldn't remember how they themselves came into existence.

>>29829870
>Unless Equestria is in a solar system VERY different from ours
I think it's fair to assume that. If they're in a solar system just like ours, the princesses are wrecking absolute havoc in it on a daily basis.

>>29829034
I'd like to think that after a few millennia of giving a shit, she decided to outsource giving a shit to the populace, so she can spend the next few millennia pretending to be inept, before coming off vacation to start giving a shit again

>>29830178
born *in equestria. also the journal of the two sisters says celestia and luna are natural born alicorns who came to equestria with starswirl to lead the three pony tribes.

>>29829467
>Nightmare reduced Equestria to a fucking wasteland in a very, very short time
What show are YOU watching?

>>29829034
She never was some kind of great wizard.
She's alicorn so she probably have more magic juice than other ponies, but Equestria was in peace for 1000 years.
Even few years of non activity can turn warrior into shit, and she spent millennium doing little physical and magical acivity (not counting moving sun, but it's debatable how hard it is).
We know that she and Luna defeated Discord, but it's more thanks to the elements than their own powers.
And after that they (supposedly most powerfull beings) lose with Sombra (for someone like them sealing of Crystal Empire is defeat).
They can probably fight most things in their world thanks to their magical power, but if their enemies know how to fight or have more numbers, Celestia and Luna will lose.

>>29829614
>>29829627

The map is no longer accurate and even the chairs surrounding it are falling apart, it's slowly being drained to fuel the spell.

>>29829870
Their solar system can't be similar to ours. If it is than every miscalculation or Discord screwing with sun and moon will just destroy it.
Either they don't move anything and it's some kind of illusion, or sun and moon are different than ours maybe some magicall constructs or artifacts.

>>29830969
pay attention to the map on the NMM timeline

>>29829034

Yes.
Chrysalis goes into the fight fully expecting to lose but securing a win for the hive. She's legitimately surprised that she's still left standing and Celestia isn't.

Celestia is a unicorn with more experience than any other, but she's still just a pony at the end of the day, and she doesn't have the raw strength of creatures like Luna, Discord or amped-up Chrysalis.

>>29829977
>that feel when you just want to post cute pony reactions but you're stuck here with a bunch of autists
Fucking GR15

>>29829034
Celestia is low energy, we need a real princess like Starlight Glimmer

>>29830947
It's been confirmed in the show that flurry hearts is the only known natural born alicorn.

>>29831384
kinda have to wonder, she must also be the only pony with an alicorn mother, right?

seems to me its only Celestias fault they didnt know it could happen sooner.

>>29831424
Why not also blame Luna? She had plenty of time before and after being on the Moon to get knocked up before Flurry Heart was born.

>>29831429
true but we dont know how long they were around, and mature, before then.

all we know is celestia had at least a 1000 years.

>>29831384
>>29831424
In case you aren't baiting:

Celestia and Luna are naturally-born alicorns; Haber confirmed he hadn't bothered reading the lore, but that doesn't stop it from being the lore (just makes him a pretty shitty writer). Fortunately there was that 'first in Equestria' modifier, which is convenient since Celestia and Luna were from outside Equestria originally. Starswirl brought them in to be leaders.

>>29829034
Chrysalis is surprised she managed to overpower Celestia, so probably. Then again, The Plot is some unknowable force that seems to dictate every event that happens around Equestria. Maybe this being has no intention of ever letting Celestia be useful.

>>29831437
>Haber confirmed he hadn't bothered reading the lore
[citation needed]

>Princess Celestia: The birth of an Alicorn is something Equestria has never seen!
>Princess Luna: It is beyond even our understanding.
That "modifier" isn't worth much when Luna admits they themselves don't understand it.

>>29831437
not baiting, but:

A)we dont actually know where luna and celetia are from.
B)Thats not what they said.

also lets not forget, in both directions, that this is a lore where despite luna and celestia not being confirmed to exist, or at least be known about yet, that the 3 pony tribes apparently rose a flag with them on it once they unified. it makes no sense in the context its given.

this is the lore were arguing about. if you go through it im 100% sure your gonna find some other contradictions and shit that makes no sense.

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>>29831470
>[citation needed]
Citation given.

>That "modifier" isn't worth much when Luna admits they themselves don't understand it.
That's actually not that big of a contradiction; they don't seem to have had much of an understanding of other alicorns when they were young either. It's possible alicorns were already something of a vanishing race at that point, which actually fits quite nicely with the 'in Equestria' interpretation - what Luna is saying is they don't understand why alicorns are suddenly being born now after a minimum 1,000 year period of simply not being born.

>>29831509
>B)Thats not what they said.

i am a different anon.
i went and checked.
it is -exactly- what they said. go fuck yourself if you can't bring honesty to your arguments.

>>29831437
Once it's in the show, it's the indisputable canon, regardless of whether it satisfies your autism.

>>29831509
>the 3 pony tribes apparently rose a flag with them on it once they unified.
This was likely done for the sake of theatrical clarity.
It's a play, not to be taken literally. In the play, only 6 female ponies survive. That's probably not historically accurate, even with lesbian love spawn that'd be a bit weird. Besides, pseudo-canonical accounts like the Journal of two sisters has Commander Hurricane as a male so that part isn't accurate anyways.

Another thing is that Commander Hurricane's armor is nearly identical in design to modern guard armor. It'd be weird if the guard uniform has seen zero development for the last 1000+ years, especially knowing that other armor designs DO exist, like the full suits of unicorn plate armor we see in the Everfree castle for example.

What I'm saying is, the most logical explanation is that the play uses a modern flag ponies are familiar with rather than a historically accurate one, just like they use a modern suit of armor instead of one that's historically accurate, and use modern Equestrian language rather than the old dialect.

>>29831719
This.

Equestria was a thing before the Sisters showed up, but we don't actually know what the flag of that time looks like. Given the fact that Discord was running the place for a while, I've always assumed that he largely obliterated the vestiges of the old government and forced Celestia and Luna to take up a more direct rulership role - probably including remaking a new flag, with the grateful ponies putting their new diarchy front and center.