canon power levels: Starlight>Twilight>Sunset>Sunburst>

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>>29262963
>Glimmer Fag

Aww I thought this was gonna be a good thread

MUH POWA LEVALS XD

>>29262969
not a glimfag, just stating that sunset is weaksauce compared to the others

Staff tweets never meant shit

>>29262969
Agreed.
Twilight is literally the element of MAGIC.

Starlight might have spent more time on a tiny little selection of spells that she knew better than Twi, and thus Twilight couldn't circumvent them after less than 12 hours of trying.

HOWEVER. Twilight was so powerful and well aligned with it's ideals that the universal force of magic itself chose her to be the wielder of ultimate magical power (Element of Magic).

Twilight Sparkle is the most powerful, Starlight is just a specialist in a few small fields.

>>29262963
>Starlight above Twilight
You're an idiot

Twilight > Sunset = Starlight > Trixie = Sunburst

>>29262963
Twilight and Sunset were both taught by Celestia. The most powerful alicorn in existence. They have a much larger arsenal and many more years behind them than Starlight who is only skilled with a handful of spells while Twi and Sunset know many school

le power ranking thread =D

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>>29262963
>ranking Starlight above Sunset and Twilight, unicorns who actually studied magic

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>>29262969
>>29262988
>>29263034
>>29263045
>>29263078
t. Twifags

>>29263050
Sunset went to a different universe where she has not practiced magic for a while. Also, what exactly was Twilight taught? In s1 her magic was limited to a handful of spells - ofc, her magic has increased exponentially, but by no means does this have anything to do with being celestia's students.

>>29263034
We don't know that. I'd much prefer Twilight as the most powerful, but someone should also ask Ishi/the staff if Glimmer is stronger. If he can confrim that about Sunset there's no reason we can't get that answered too.

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>>29263088
Sunset may be a bit rusty but she could pick it back up in no time. Like riding a bike.
Twilight is a literal Alicorn trained by Celestia. There is no way Starlight, who was never taught and only learned what she needed on her own, is stronger than Twilght.
Glimmerfags everyone.
I haven't seen this much delusion in a long time.

>>29263091
>there's no reason we can't get that answered too.
I don't think Starlight is in his jurisdiction. He only works on EG and Starlight is an FiM only character.

>>29263091
Ishi only works on EQG, he won't know anything about Glimmer.

>>29262963
>non-alicorn being stronger than an alicorn
LOL
Twilight is stronkest

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>>29262963
POWER LEVELS ARE BULLSHIT

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>>29262963
That's the same guy that asked Him if Fluttershy is pregnant.

>>29263117
>Him
Jim

>>29263117
tell him to ask ishi what color sunset's panties are

>>29263123
I don't think Ishi will answer that.
A normal question, maybe.

What about Sci-Twi?

>>29263098
>using magic is like riding a bike
>>29263108
>Implying alicorns are the end all when it comes to magic
Next autistic argument you idiots are gonna say is that Twilight is the fastest flyer because she's an "Alicorn"

Twilight could easily be replaced by Trixie, Glimmer, or Sunset as the element of magic. There is nothing canon that says that only she can use the element of magic or that they have to be the "strongest"

>>29263127
Scitwi never learned magic. She wouldn't be very good at it at all.

>>29263113
Vegeta speaks truth.

>>29263088
why would twifags even mention sunset. i personally think power level arguments are retarded, magic is inconsistent as hell on the show, twilight becomes mediocre when it's convenient to the plot

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>>29263133

>>29263133
They can't replace her because her cutiemark is literally shaped like the element of magic and it's right in the middle of the tree of harmony. But that doesn't make the rest of your post untrue

>>29263127
unironically would be worse than Sweetie Belle if she crossed over

Midnight Sparkle however is a tier 1 threat up there with Discord in terms of power

>>29263133
>Trixie
A nobody
>Glimmer
Shit
>Sunset
Not even canon/irrelevant

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>>29263133
>>using magic is like riding a bike
Don't doubt me.
I've studied magic theory and written multiple papers on the subject.
You wouldn't be able to even begin to comprehend my actual power level.
I bet you can't even tell me the difference between a summoning spell and a conjuring spell.

>>29263034
>Twilight is literally the element of MAGIC
Her element is in pure relation 'friendship magic' not 'general magic'. In terms of general magic:
Tirek > Discord > Chrysalis > Starlight > Twilight > etc

Twilight can't beat glimmer without the use of friendship magic and she can't use that unless her friends are with her.

>>29263157
>up there with Discord in terms of power
Nah anon. She barely held her own against Sunset.

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>>29262963
Glimmer is a shitty mary sue so this is probably true for no logical reason at all.

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>>29263302
>everyone is a mary sue

>>29263315
Glim glam has 0 reason to be the most powerful
Maybe the most learned at the moment, or most practiced
But twilight is a literal fucking alicorn, a ruler, and the element of magic specifically.
Glim glam is no where close- at least she shouldnt be. She has her tricks and a few spells shes mastered that can help her stack up against Twilight, but *raw* magical ability shouldnt be close.
The fact the writers clearly think she IS that capable, for no good reason, does kind of make her a mary sue or at least a bit of a "writer's pet"

>>29263409
the magic of friendship, anon. in the end twilight won. she gained a friend.

victory doesnt always go to the guy who can throw the hardest punches.

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>>29262963
There the tip for you, Starfag.

Twilight became an alicorn, and Starlight - not.

>but muh plotarmor

So fuckoff.

>>29263412
>the magic of friendship
Which was one of the most sought after physical power ups in this universe to any who wield it before being reborn as twilight.
Its magic of friendship is quite literal in equestria.

If anything, this makes Twilight even more powerful since this is magic Glimmer cant use or learn. She may be learning to make friends, but she cant access the physical power of the elements at all, while twilight can since she embodies the element itself.

>>29263459
twilight gets her power from her friends. for one thing, she was fighting glimmer alone. there was no magic of friendship there for her.
and as i said, she won. glimmer is now part of her power and both of them are growing stronger together than they were alone.

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>Suburst
you mean that guy who literally said his magic was complete shit?

>>29263479
what if star swirl was the best academic wizard ever but couldnt cast spells for shit
what if glimmer is akin to clover the clever

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>>29263440
Twilight got her wings for "friendship magic" and that's also how she "defeated" Starlight. Her raw magic abilities may not better or may even be worse than Glimmy's abilities, but that doesn't mean that she isn't overall more powerful.

>>29263483
________________________________________________________________________________________________Mind=Blown________________________________________________________________________________________________

>>29263483
Most likely he knows very complex or obscure spells, but doesn't neccessarily has the power to cast them.

Gas all Glimmerfags

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>>29263485
>but muh plotarmor

>>29263600
>I don't have any valid argument, so I'll spout buzzwords I don't know the meaning of
Just because you don't like part of the plot, doesn't mean it's plotarmor. Starlight being a sociopath with a lot raw magical ability and the fact/lesson that raw power isn't everything was THE plot.

DO you even watch the show?
Twilight is an alicorn, she has alicorn magic now, that alone is more powerful than just having magic as your talent, and she has that too, there's no way glimmer is better than her, she is very powerful though, I won't deny that.

>>29263761
>that alone is more powerful than just having magic as your talent
DO you even watch the show?
This has never been shown, supported or even hinted at.

>>29263776
Then why did Tirek want the alicorn magic so bad?

>>29263761
>Twilight is an alicorn, she has alicorn magic now, that alone is more powerful than just having magic as your talent
Just how retarded are you? I thought that the show made it quite clear that Celestia and Luna - both alicorns - are almost useless when it comes to magic battles.

>>29263791
Why did he want earth pony magic?

>>29263794
>the show made it quite clear
when exactly?

>>29263797
to be powerful enough to stand up to the princesses

>>29263791

He specifically wanted ALL magic, including alicorn magic.

Different types of magic does different things.

>>29263798
Every time when some powerful being, who could defeat villain of the season, was needed.

>>29263799
>needed earth pony "magic" to defeat the "oh so powerful" alicorn magic
...yeah, sounds about right

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>>29263794

Quite the opposite.

We know Celestia is middling. Certainly above S2/S3 Twilight, but she's less of a fighter than Chrysalis had expected, and her magical repertoire is from what we've seen very limited.

Luna on the other hand is the most versatile magician in the show, only Twilight has shown a larger repertoire but that's to be expected when you take screen time into account. Luna can sustain the most multiple spells at once and she's the only one we know of that can create truly self-sustaining, sentient entities with her magic (Tantibus, most likely Nightmare Moon as well). She's also the only one who can cast spells without any signs of concentration or effort, even simple telekinesis takes a small amount of focus (a short stop, an intense stare and a blink usually) when cast by Twilight or Starlight.
Not so for Luna, this is especially noticeable in Luna Eclipsed when she whips up an entire storm and uses thunder to punctuate her speech without seemingly moving a muscle.

Luna can also sustain the raw magical beam the longest, Twilight for instance can only manage short half-second bursts.

>>29262963
Well of course Starlight is. She's a mary sue.

>>29262963
>sunburst ahead of trixie
No. Who cares anyway, everyone except twi/twiclone is shit

>>29263842
That's almost entirely indirect evidence that has more to do with the animators and storyboard artists than the story, where they still couldn't defeat the villains. Meanwhile Twilight had direct confrontation with Starlight where could not beat her and there's pretty much no doubt about canonicity of that. You're grasping at straws.

>>29263133
>Implying Twilight could be replaced as an element of harmony
Looks like somebody didn't watch the first episode.

>>29263873

But Luna and Celestia have never been in a fight in the story, aside from Celestia losing to Cheeselegs that one time.

They intentionally gave their magic to Twilight because Twilight (as the element of magic) would have an easier time controlling it, they were taken by surprise by Discord's plants and the changeling invasion, and so on.

Indirect evidence like the one I present is far more valuable than no evidence.

>>29263178
>Tirek
Not strong at all unless he's sucked out most of the magic in Equestria first. On his own, he's not even a challenge to Discord
>Chrysalis
Only strong when she's been feeding on the love of ponies for long enough. On her own, she's nothing.
>Starlight
Is better at understanding magic and is more creative with her magic than Twilight. In no way, shape, or form, is she stronger than Twilight. A real list would look more like
Discord = Celestia > Twilight > Cadence > Sombra > Sunset > Starlight

>>29263887
>But Luna and Celestia have never been in a fight in the story, aside from Celestia losing to Cheeselegs that one time.
So they either did fight (why, if they're so powerful?) or they lost. That, together with S6 finale, is more than enough counterevidence.

>>29262969
I love Twilight but she's clearly outdone by Glimmer. She's OP, I wish they would nerf her a little.
>>29263034
And Pinkie is the element of Laughter yet somehow Cheese oudid her at that.

>>29263903
*so they either DIDN'T fight

>>29263905
>And Pinkie is the element of Laughter yet somehow Cheese oudid her at that.
Exactly. Besides, Twilight wasn't "chosen" by "the force" or some shit, it was plain ol' cronyism, luck, and sufficient talent for magic.

>>29263903

What?

I just told you why they so rarely fight. Almost every time they're taken by surprise or they have a better solution.
You could argue they're careless for being so easily backstabbed, and I'd totally agree with you, but that's got nothing to do with fighting capability, only readiness and awareness.
It doesn't really matter how good a swordsman you are when you're poisoned, which is what seems to happen to the princesses every time.

>>29263905
>And Pinkie is the element of Laughter yet somehow Cheese oudid her at that.
Not true.

>Rainbow Dash: But don't you get it? You're both super duper party ponies. Sure, Cheese Sandwich is a great guest party pony, but you're Ponyville's permanent party pony. Nopony could ever take your place, and we could never have a party without you.

>>29263902
Hey, remember the episode where a storm cloud was threatening the Crystal Empire with freezing winter and Celestia blew it away with her sun powers as it was just an afternoon's simple white cloud?

Yeah, me neither.

>>29263940
And Rarity is the element of generosity but everyone up to and including spike outdo her on that half the time

>>29263973

Eeeh, I'll give you that one.

You could make the argument that generosity is relative to your own wealth, and it's only very recently that Rarity's business is actually blooming. But she'd be a much, much better fit as Inspiration as was originally planned.

>>29263984
And spike is the element of side character but Applejack beats him at that

>>29263984
Also spike gave rarity literally his only valuable possession at the time out of the goodness of his heart, which was an act of generosity so strong it reversed a dragons aging process

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>>29262963
If only Sunset would give in to her hate.

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>>29263993

>>29263929
>Almost every time they're taken by surprise or they have a better solution.
The only time when they're really taken by surprise is S4 opener and S6 finale, every other time they know about the danger in advance and chose not to directly confront the villain, or are defeated in fair fight (don't forget that Chrissy was caught out by surprise too).

>they have a better solution.
If their magic ability was so great, IT would be the best solution.

>>29264072

Most times are already accounted for. There aren't really any more villains you COULD directly confront.

The princesses weren't involved for S5 premier and finale.
S6 premier couldn't be solved with direct confrontation, nor could S3 finale.

You're basically left with Crystal Empire and Tirek.
Luna specifically wanted to go to the Empire, but Celestia ruled against it.
Discord was the superior solution to Tirek, but Discord betrayed them and Tirek grew too strong, reaching a point where direct confrontation was impossible.

>>29263808
you're forgetting that he ALSO had ALL the unicorn and pegasi magic as well
he wielded all of the 3 kinds of ponies magic
which was able to make him become a stale mate to Twilight who held 4 sets of alicorn magic

this also proves that Sunset's plan very well could have worked if she had been able to get enough ponies under her mind control spell to actually BE able to defeat Celestia, Luna and Cadence

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>>29264013
She did once, and look how THAT turned out

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>>29262963
>Sunset
>canon

>>29264254
>he says, posting a non-canon Twilight

>>29264200

Another thing worth pointing out is that Twilight had a very hard time controlling the magic of 4 alicorns, despite being the element of magic herself. One could logically assume the same is true for Tirek, and he would perform even more sub-optimally with his E+U+P+Discord magic combo.

Dunno much about Sunset, but logically 100 mind-controlled but naturally trained ponies with a lifetime of experience would perform better than 1 pony with the stolen magic of 100 ponies.

>>29263113
this

>>29264254
this

>>29263902
>Discord = Celestia
Discord outclasses Celestia to the point where she and Luna could only beat him with the Elements of Harmony. And only because he stood still.
Celestia couldn't even subdue her own sister, who you didn't even rank, without the Elements.
Yeah, she was hopped up on Teen Angst, but that would at least mean that NMM <= Celestia.

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>>29264217
Unless I'm very much mistaken, it was a wonderful time for everybody and good times were had by all. There was much rejoicing throughout the land.

>>29264301
>One could logically assume the same is true for Tirek
He fought Twilight to a stalemate and never seemed to struggle using his newfound pool of mana.
Maybe he has a better grasp of magic control than Twilight. Or he's used to having a lot of magic, considering how he's tried this sort of thing in the past.
The guy's a beast, and getting more magic just makes him beast out even more.

>All these people thinking Glimmer beat Twilight in the S5 final
>Inb4 quote

What's easier, trying to force a win through brute force, or talk your way to a win with no effort at all? Glimmer's win condition was screw with Dash, that means she has limitless possibilities to win. Twilight's win condition on the other hand, was to stop Glimmer and make sure she didn't screw with Dash, that means she has limitless possibilities to fail. Glimmer and Twilight also never had a fair 1v1 fight, so you can't use an unleveled playing field to show who's stronger. And funnily enough, even with a unleveled playing field, Glimmer only had the advantage in the beginning, after that, Twilight not only caught up, but even landed a surprise hit, just like Glimmer did in the beginning.

>>29264577
they would find a way to make twilight lose in a 1v1 fight because it's MLP and she has to win through friendship

>>29264577
It wasn't a surprise attack, Starlight was fully expecting it, she knew where Twilight would come from and was even already casting a spell. The thing is that Glimmer is not that great either.

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>A tweet about how Sunset is strong but not as strong as Twilight
>Becomes a pissing fight between Glimmerfags and Twifags
You just are fucking weird

>>29264603
It was a surprise because Glimmer wasn't expect Twilight to come out guns blazing.

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>>29264747
And show exactly start this bullshit? Starfags.

>>29263887
>they were taken by surprise by... the changeling invasion,

Chrysalis literally, LITERALLY, fucking stood there, after revealing herself, and let Celestia rise up, charge her attack, and shoot at her without moving an inch, and she got taken out in one shot.

>But the changeling invasion itself was a surprise!

Yeah, except for the fact Cornholio literally ANNOUNCED AN INVASION WAS COMING and put them on high alert. Fucking hell Celestia was taken off guard, buggo outright told her she was coming, revealed herself when there, and stood around waiting for Celestia to shoot at her and she still one.

Even Batman thinks that would be a ludicrous amount of preptime.

>>29265165
>and shoot at her without moving an inch,
Not true.
See for example >>29263842 , the green beam is Chrysalis, she's meeting Celestia's attack head on with an identical attack of her own.
That's how she won, Chrysalis charged her attack and directly overpowered Celestia, Celestia didn't just overexert herself and fall over as Chrysalis "LITERALLY fucking stood there".

>ANNOUNCED AN INVASION WAS COMING
Nope.
>Shining Armor: It has nothing to do with the wedding. A threat has been made against Canterlot. We don't know who's responsible for it, but Princess Celestia asked that I help provide additional protection.
Nowhere was the invasion announced, the entire plan hinged on NOT announcing the specifics and tiring out Canterlot by keeping them on high alert for weeks.

>>29263178
If we're talking about general magic Tirek isn't on the list because his ability is completely variable. Both the highest and lowest theoretically. If we're talking maximally, then Twilight w/ EoH wins out, but it looks like the conversation is about their normal magical ability.

Alicorn Twilight
Unicorn Twilight, Starlight
Sunset
Trixie, Moondancer

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>>29265416
This nigga

>>29265416
It should be
Starlight > Unicorn Twilight
She was self levitating while going tow to tow with an alicorn.

>>29263078

Starlight might well have been Twilight-unicorn's equivalent in raw power, even if Twilight's education is far broader.

It's like comparing a mace to a sword. Both kill, one's generally more elegant about it. Starlight's spent years studying magic herself, but didn't have the resources Celestia's students would.

Sunset's just rusty because incomplete education.

>>29263160

A summoning calls the focus of the spell from elsewhere, but the focus already exists, while conjuring forms the object as part of the spell process.

And I'm not even a unicorn, not that you'd know.

>>29265802
there are not unicorns on the internet

>>29265822

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5im0Ssyyus

Checkmate, athiest.

>>29265765
twilite levitated herself and the rest of m6 simultaneously back in s2, being an alicorn doesn't mean shit

>>29265829
>doesn't have a Cutie Mark
Importing a foreign equine actor, probably from Saddle Arabia
The horns are clearly props and applied by movie makeup

that is a filthy sandhoof and should be emigrated from Equestria
where's that magic wall when you need it?!

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>>29265728

>>29265874

And Glimmer manages to take it to the point of a decently agile pegasus flight.

Also, considering four alicorns is enough to generate sufficient raw magical power to obliterate huge swathes of land (Twilight vs. Tirek), it points to alicornhood as being considerably more potent than merely being a unicorn. Otherwise, four competent unicorns would be sufficient to obliterate most invading armies on their own.

Sunset would be stronger if she had a more complete education.

Hypothetically:

Elements w/Sunset Shimmer
Elements
Full power Tirek/second strongest Tirek
Discord, Midnight Sparkle
Nightmare Moon
Demon Sunset, Dazzlings, Gaia Everfree, third strongest Tirek, enpowered Queen Chrysalis
Luna, Celestia
King Sombra, base Queen Chrysalis
Cadance, alicorn Twilight
Unicorn Twilight, Starlight Glimmer
Sunset Shimmer
Trixie, Moondancer
Sunburst, Rarity, other unicorns
Weakest Tirek

>>29267138
Another sign that Sunset is reasonable character and Starlight is a Mary Sue since she has no education but still most powerful.

>>29267260
delusional

>>29263113
Thank you.

>>29264254
xD

>>29263842
>truly self-sustaining, sentient entities
>Nightmare Moon
Nightmare Moon is Luna. Luna is Nightmare Moon. Finkel is Einhorn.

>>29267564
but who was phone???

>>29267585
man door hand hook car door

This entire thread is irrelevant. Nobody has any interested in Sunset beyond wanting to fuck her.

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>>29263034
>>29263045
>>29263050
>>29263078
>>29263108
>>29263409
>>29263440
>>29263459
>>29263761
>>29263902
>>29264577
>>29264603
>>29265416
>>29265728
>>29267260
Holy shit! So much random butthurt about Glimglam! Great job, OP!

The way I see it, Starlight is like the Frank Grimes to Twilight's Homer Simpson. Glimmer didn't have nearly the same opportunities or luck that Twilight did, yet she's still now on the same magical level as Twilight.
Glimmy is a self-made mare, which is part of why I think she's pretty cool!

>>29269294
her being at that level doesn't make the slightest sense though, she just is because why not lol!

>>29263034
Eh.

Twilight as a unicorn was possibly the most powerful unicorn of the era.

As an alicorn, she's probably trailing behind her peers though. If she were as old as Celestia and Luna are, it would probably be no contest, but she's not.

>>29262963
Sunburst>Trixie
Lol what

Twlight's special talent seems to actually be the ability to cast any spell she observes without any effort. We see Twilight learning spells the traditional way (reading/studying) but there are many times where someone casts a spell in front of her and she's suddenly proficient in it. Celestia does this with the dark magic in the S3 premier.

So Twilight will, eventually, always be the better mage.

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Sometimes, it pays to be a Rarafag.

This thread proves it.

>>29269955
Nobody has to argue about his shit a unicorn Rarity is. It's canon.

>>29267564

Is there confirmation for this somewhere in canon? We know Tantibus is NOT Luna, Tantibus is it's own entity created by Luna, why isn't the same true of Nightmare Moon?

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>>29269294
>Glimmy is a plot-made mare

Fixed ya

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>Arguing about power levels
>in a show that's all about friendship
>Where "magic" is very loosely defined and serves as a plot supplement at most, otherwise being the lowest common denominator of beam spam

>>29269306
She was driven psychologically, first by her ideology, and then her lust for revenge.

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>>29269957
>implying Rarity is a weak unicorn when she's probably in the top 5%
She's just overshadowed by the company she keeps.

>>29269955
Enjoy your weak unicorn.

>>29270934
Only because of plot armor. At the end of the season 5 premier Starlight was shocked that Twiggy blocked her spell saying it took her years while Twiggy did iy immediately by copying. Then suddenly Starlight does all that in the finale...

>>29271545
Like >>29264577 mentioned, she only had to hold out for a minute at most to thwart Twilight and shift the timeline. While it's obvious she's improved, (through the s5 finale and s6 too) most of why she looks so good is because she's in the best possible scenario for herself.

>>29265728
Unitwi self levitated in the S3 Premiere.

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>>29271741

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>>29262963
Twilight (with alicorn magic) > Tirek (final) > NMM > Discord > Sombra >Chrissy (100% love charged) > Princess Twi > Luna > Celestia > Princess Candyass > Trixie (with amulet) > Unicorn Twi > Glimmer > Sunset > Chrissy (base) > Trixie

This is the correct answer.
The only this you could possibly argue is maybe Glimglam is above Unicorn Twi. Certainly possible, but Twi was doing time spells and shit in like season 2.

>>29272167
I wouldn't put NMM above Discord. Only Celestia. We have no way of telling if NMM was somehow stronger than Luna, just more direct with her magic.
Tirek's power with Discord's magic was on par with the combined strength of 4 alicorns.

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>>29272167
>Luna > Celestia

>>29272186
True we have no direct proof, but my thought process was that in the NMM time line if she wasn't able to hold her own for 1000 years someone would have stepped in and she rules. Not Sombra, Chrissy, or Discord.

So Juices Princess Twi = Juiced Tirek?


>>29272211
That's pretty obvious from what we've seen.
Celestia is a better planner and statistician, but one on one majicks fight Luna wins.

>>29272167

Surely this is bait? I see so many faults with this and yet it's the """"correct"""" answer.

>>29272234
>hold her own for 1000 years
Wut?

She was ruling for 2-3 years.

>>29272234
Luna's magic is uncontrolled and raw. Celestia might lose fights against larger entities (Discord, Full power Chrysalis, and NMM) but that doesn't mean Luna is more powerful. If anything, they're equal, Celestia only knows how to control her powers better. Scalpel vs cleaver kinda deal.

As for NMM, I dunno, I would refer to what I just said, just now she's being malicious with her powers while Celestia isn't. I would rank her higher than Celestia, but NMM lost to the Elements just like everyone else, and only needed Celestia using them to defeat her.

>>29272251
Name any faggot.

>>29272256
>cleaver not more powerful than a scalpel

Nigga what the fuck are you smoking?

Now, if you had said a scalpel is more USEFUL than a cleaver, you might have an argument, but in no way, shape or form is Celestia stronger than Luna.

>>29272298
>in no way, shape or form is Celestia stronger than Luna
Do you have any actual evidence to back this up?

>>29272261

Twilight was equal to Tirek, NMM never fought Discord, Luna and Celestia beat Sombra once, Twilihght still can't even sustain her magic like Luna can, etc.

>>29272256
>Luna v. Celestia
I pretty much agree with all that, so maybe in a fight they'd be equal. Or more likely Celly winning because of her control. Makes sense. But just who has more magic ability, I'd say that goes to Luna. Someone way above pointed out some instances of Luna's effortless spells, and sure we rarely see Celestia do any magic, but that counts for something.

>NMM
Everyone loses to the Elements. That's the Elements not Celestia. They're OP by a huge margin.

NMM is top tier strength. It's her being malicious + Luna's greater raw power + whatever dark magic boost ya get if you consider the comic or however that works. And remember Celly lost to bugbutt and that was a direct attack, so unless she had some end game and took a dive, she lost.

>>29272304

Magical repertoire, intensity of their respective raw magical beams, visible strain when casting magic (or in Luna's case, often complete lack thereof).

Before you reply, please lurk the thread you're posting in. There's really no point in me regurgitating what we've already gone through in detail.

>>29272298
Celestia isn't stronger she just would probably win in a fight. Luna is very timid with her sister and has no where near the control Celestia has.
NMM would destroy. Like she has in various timelines.

>>29262963
>Sunset
>canon
EGfaggot pls

>>29272331

So you're saying if Celestia and Luna had a fight, Celestia would win because Luna looks up to her?

What kind of bullshit logic is that? You're making a colossal leap in order to have them in a hypothetical fight, but you're not willing to extend that to their emotions and motives?

I mean for fucks sake, Celestia literally said she wouldn't fight Luna/NMM in the flashback, so by your logic Celestia CAN'T win.

>>29272336
Canon as in "EQG canon"

>>29272329
This.

>>29272308
>Twilight was equal to Tirek
Already fixed a few posts up.

>NMM never fought Discord
It's based on magical ability, what we've seen, and where they'd stand. Not a literal fight.

>Luna and Celestia beat Sombra once
Elements. That was the Elements, which are OP. Nothing to do with the wielders. Pretty sure they tried and failed without them, but idr

>Twilihght still can't even sustain her magic like Luna can, etc.
I'll agree with this, the 3 princesses can be a toss up, but magical potential goes to Twi, and Luna is > Celestia in that regard.

>>29272354
Did you only read like 3 words of what I said?

>>29272404

Those were about the only 3 words that matters, the rest is non-arguments and unsubstantiated nonsense.

>Celestia isn't stronger
Good, that much is settled at least.
>she just would probably win in a fight.
Okay? Now it's up to you explain how, despite you admitting her being weaker.

Let's see how you do that:
>Luna is very timid with her sister
There is some basis for this in the show.
>and has no where near the control Celestia has.
Not for this. Hence why I ignored that part.
Or do you believe there is? Why don't you show us a few examples?

Celestia's woken up in a cold sweat from her premonitions (Tirek episode), while Luna has created nightmare-entities that threatened all of Equestria twice. Is that what you're getting at? That because Celestia has a tiny, tiny fraction of Luna's power she's better at controlling that fraction, and therefore would win?

>NMM would destroy. Like she has in various timelines.
Yep, but not part of the argument, so this bit I ignored as well.

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This entire thread

>>29272475
Not him but here's my 2 cents.
>Celestia isn't stronger
Right, Luna is. Read above.

>Okay? Now it's up to you explain how, despite you admitting her being weaker.
She's not, Luna is stronger and would win. Read the thread.

>>29272557

So the 2 cents you posted are in complete agreement with the post you replied to, and the points aren't even yours, you're just referring to smarter people upthread.

Good job.

>>29272234
>That's pretty obvious from what we've seen.

Number of episode?

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>>29272557
>Luna is stronger and would win

Now is the moment then you explain me how she will do it.

>>29272961
>plz spoonfeed me I'm too lazy to lurk the thread I'm posting in

No, that moment was about 50 posts ago.

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>>29272908
>>29272961
See; >>29272994 you faggots.

hayyyy

>>29272994
And you can show where?

>>29273021
You can start from here >>29262963

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>>29273023
'kay, Lunafag. Like always.

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Updated.

Literally anyone using the Elements >>>>>> Twilight (with alicorn magic) = Tirek (final) > NMM > Discord > Sombra > Chrissy (100% love charged) > Princess Twi > Luna > Celestia > Princess Candyass > Trixie (with amulet) > Unicorn Twi > Glimmer > Sunset > Chrissy (base) > Trixie

Any input from people actually involved in the thread and up to speed?

We know Sombra and Discord are > the princesses cause they needed the elements.
So, that leaves NMM. I think she's safely > Bugbutt. But that leaves where does she stand compared to Discord and Sombrero.

Base she's an alicorn and base Sombra is a unicorn, so not perfect logic, but I think it's save to assume she's > him.

And as for Discord, really all I have is that in the NMM time line he would have probably broken free. Lot of disharmony after she took over.
And the world we saw didn't look influenced by him at all. So, that means she had to have shut him down without the Elements. Which is pretty powerful.

>>29273087
Rainbow Power > Tirek with all alicorns and other magic.

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>>29273042
>>29273042
God you're a faggot. You could literally just read the thread.
And this isn't even about who's princess is better. Stop projecting.

Luna and Celestia each have their strong points and even in a straight up fight Luna might not win because of Celestia's strategy, planning, and control. But Luna has more magic ability. Again read the thread for specifics.

>>29273087

NMM is the only one who managed to resist the elements for a couple of seconds, that ought to put her above Tirek and 4x Twilicorn

>>29273102
True, will add.

>>29273140
That's a pretty huge jump no? Other anons thoughts?

And what about Shinning? Greater than Trixie less than Sunset?

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For the time being,

Glimmer >= Twilicorn

But I feel like there's going to be an episode in the next season where one of those two puts a foot down (so to speak) and effortlessly outshines the other in some display.

But until then, Glimmer has shown in the show to be more adept at mastery of magic than twilight.

Twilgiht might have her beat in raw power base, but seems to be less skillful control than Glimmer, and that's where she loses edge.

Also, posting best unicorn.

>>29273126
>Celestia's strategy, planning, and control
Celestia is Batman.

>>29273197
Have to disagree. Look at their actual fight. Twi is spamming a crazy hard spell over and over again and Glimmer is just in stall mode. And they both tire out around the same time.
Glimmer out classes Twi in her limited wheelhouse, which is impressive. But given a bit of time Twi can easily surpass her. Again look at the spell.

>>29273087
Cadance+Shining Armor > Chrysalis 100% love charged

>>29273248
kek drawfags i need this

>>29262963
Starlight isn't stronger than Twilight.
Twilight just fucking sucks at fighting.

>>29273266
Added, but with a note. Probably only works when love is directly involved.

>>29272908

Not the one you're replying to, the only scenario I can think of is the pilot, if you go with the assumption that Celestia knew how special Twilight and friends were.

In S4E1 Celestia is fucking useless though. Not only did she not see Luna's transformation coming from a mile away, she openly taunts Luna when Luna is at her most vulnerable. Celestia has gone too far and Luna cries out "Not one step further" before going through with the transformation. Neither of them would yield, while a truly wise Celestia would have.
The only way you can argue around this is by going with a grimdark interpretation that Celestia wanted Equestria for herself and she planned to banish her own sister from the beginning, which I don't think really fits Celestia's character.

Come to think of it, another scenario where Celestia fails is the first time Crystal Empire is banished. It's not against Luna, but Celestia clearly didn't have all the facts and make all the right decisions when the empire was banished alongside Sombra.

I think she's supposed to have gotten wiser and more modest over the last 1000 years, and it kind of shows from time to time.
A lot of the time she's just full retard though, and only makes it out on top by chance.

>>29273295
She does have some nice moves, it's her aim that needs work

>>29273309

It's an interesting comparison to make, between Celestia's and NMM's rule.

Celestia has put her pawns Cadance and Shining Armor on the throne of the Crystal Empire, for all important purposes making the Crystal Empire a part of Equestria.
Spike owes Celestia his very existence, and through careful maneuvering (and luck/fate) on Celestia's part Spike is not only close friend with the confused, unskilled and newly appointed changeling king (Worth pointing out that it's Celestia who put the idea in motion that Thorax specifically should be king), he's also very close to the new dragon lord.
Meanwhile the Everfree Forest is expanding and ponies are deathly afraid of it, Celestia can't do anything about it and the old castle is in ruins. Dragons take 100 year long naps on Equestrian soil and have to be convinced to leave, and pests like vampire bats destroy entire harvests.

Under NMM's reign the castle in Everfree has been rebuilt, and it's inhabitants now fear ponykind rather than the other way around.
She's created an elite guard featuring among other the best (and most loyal) flier in Equestria.
I'm assuming stampeding Buffalo and sleeping dragons were summarily executed, like little more than timberwolves.

i'm just going to say that thinking the moon character is stronger than the sun character is really dumb.

celestia will go apeshit and it'll turn out that her final form is basically phoenix from x-men meets saitama from one punch man. * holy shit *

>>29273368
Only people in /sun/ actually believe this. She's gotten her ass beaten by Chrysalis twice now, first when Chrysalis potentially absorbed a lot of love, and then the second time? How'd that happen?

Sun Princess is weak princess.

Another update:

Literally anyone using the Elements >>>>>> Mane 6 & Rainbow Power > alicorn Twilight (with alicorn magic) = Tirek (final) > NMM > Discord > Sombra > Cadance+Shining Armor (gay bones love magic mode*) Chrysalis (100% love charged) > alicorn Twilight > Luna > Celestia > Cadance > Trixie (with amulet) > unicorn Twilight > Glimmer > Sunset > Shining Armor > Chrysalis (base) > Trixie

*may only work when love is directly involved


Thoughts? Anyone worth adding?

>>29273435
Why are the elements > rainbow power? There is no basis to compare either of them.

>>29273435

What's the basis for Alicorn Twi having an innate power-boost over Unicorn Twi?

>>29273544
Just that the Elements have a much longer track record and seem OP. What you think I should change it to?

>>29273574
Alicorn magic, plus just watching her since she transformed. She's much more powerful. And sure that could be her practicing more, but there definitely a magic boost.

>>29273435
Why NMM over Discord. There is no proof that she is stronger in raw power or abilities

>>29262963
A FUCKING ALICORN

F
U
C
K
I
N
G

A
L
I
C
O
R
N

>tfw to inteligent too discuss pony power levels

>>29273967
Based on an anon way up in the thread. In the NMM time line Discord would have broken free due to how much disharmony there was.
And since we've seen NMM's rule and it's not a Discord-esque crazy land NMM had to have been the one to shut him down. Doubtful the Elements would have worked with the Mane 6 all different.

Lot of conjecture, but I haven't head anything better. Open to ideas though.

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Just a reminder that celestia was merely pretending to be weak in every fight for the sake of her student

>>29274287
She's talking about fucking a bunch of the swarm, she lost to the queen. She's not faking that shit for a lesson.

>>29274287
they've taken on a lot of enemies, there are a lot of episodes . i doubt shes referring to the season openers and closers.

>>29274287
>IDW

>>29262963

>>29274287
>retard alert