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>Luna and Celestia aren't naturally born alicorns
I'M FUCKING ANGRY /mlp/, ARE YOU ANGRY TOO?!
LET'S BE ANGRY TOGETHER!
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>>26879106
go be angry somewhere else ya god damn /R9K/ fag.
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>>26879106
Your ree-tainment is a few boards over, young man.
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>>26879106
You keep telling us that but they never said that
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>>26879106
>not reading the books
>trusting the new and incompetent writer
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>>26879167
Please, Big Jim is going to call the book non-canon. Just watch.
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>>26879106
HOLY SHIT.
HOW DARE THEY MAKE LUNA AND CELESTIA UNNATURALLY BORN ALICORNS.
I'M SO FUCKING PISSED THAT THE WRITERS CAN WRITE WHATEVER THE FUCK THEY WANT.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWiRwIw_hFA
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>>26879266
Fuck off newfag.
The difference is in just one line they've destroyed lore that we've had established since season 1. Lore we've had for 5 years.
>>
Do you consider your time as a baby experience with babies?
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>>26879286
That lore hadn't been established yet.
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>>26879106
I've transcended anger, I'm above sadness and pain.
Once we get through this struggle, we will be floating on the nirvana that comes withnot watching the show.
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>>26879307
It was written by Amy Keating Rogers. They did it deliberately after she left.
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>>26879321
The book wasn't released until 2014.
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>>26879372
I'm pretty sure she left in 2015.
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>>26879201
>>26879106
>official
>not canon
haber is just shit and ahven't read it. The guy didn't even saw S1.
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>>26879390
This.
To think that these writer's have any respect for the lore, outside of a basic understanding enough to construct a plot, is ridiculous.
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>>26879383
That's not 5 years of established lore though.
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>>26879106
Technically they specifically said this never happened in Equestria.
Celestia & Luna aren't from Equestria. The info we have on the draft for the first version of the movie also confirms that.
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>>26879417
I'm going to delude myself further by believing you.
>>26879405
>>26879372
>>26879307
>>26879266
Fuck off. Especially you, tripfag.
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reh
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>>26879390
Am i seeing Lauren Faust in the credits? Wasn't she already out of the show when it was released?
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>>26879438
I never said it wasn't canon, it just wasn't established since S1
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>>26879442
She was in an advisory position for the book. It incorporates parts of her show bible.
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>>26879442
Amy and Lauren were very close, plus most if not all the lore set in the show and implied by Lauren. Is it really out of the question to think Faust had helped her?
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>>26879463
This show has show bible?
When did that happen? Did that happen like two hours ago or what?
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>>26879484
The newest of fags.
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>>26879484
Faust has a document describing all the worldbuilding and lore of the FiM world she thought up. Naturally after she left it mostly became irrelevant, but parts of it were used for the Journal of the Two Sisters.
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>>26879106
No of course not,. Celestia and Luna were human experiments that happened in the 2020s, in order to bring one superintelligence to rule the world. They knew they could not save humanity that destroyed itself in a nuclear war, and thousand years later, they created Equestria.
...
I'm extrapolating a little.
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>>26879106
>>26879390
You know, the books never explicitly stated that Celestia and Luna were born alicorns. They only stated they grew up around other alicorns, never that they were born as them.
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>>26879538
They'd have to have become Alicorns pretty early on then
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>>26879538
They refer to themself as another race and got their cutie marks as late teenagers. It's obvious that they were born as alicorns.
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>>26879538
They were stated to not have their cutie amrks and to have been alive for a long time before that though.
>>
So let's say that Celestia, Luna, and all the other Alicorns weren't naturally born but ascended. Where did the first Alicorn come from then? We've only seen an ascension via another Alicorn.
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>>26879106
Someone should just ask Meghan or Big Jim, or whoever the fuck matters.
Surely they could answer this one, very simple question on whether Celestia and Luna were born as alicorns or not. :^)
>>
> Book merely says they were Alicorms when Starswirl the Neckbearded found them.
>This means they were born that way in canon.
>Not even touching on possible them being possibly unreliable narrators.
>Hell not even touching in S2 fucking over Faust's supposed vision with Discord and The HWE tale, even if she had a rather heavy hand in both episodes.
Fuck anon, you make this shit too easy.
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>>26879593
>>26879594
Then they might have become alicorns early when they didn't have cutiemarks.
Just playing devils advocate here.
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>>26879622
Where did the first human come from?
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I'm not angry, or really disappointed. Just sad to see how it's ending.
Poor Celestia... Look at what have they did to you...
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>>26879622
Two technically, considering it seems Cadence's in the book it was in is likely canon.
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>>26879622
An alicorn egg. Duh.
>>
Before the premier:
>Why is Flurry Heart a naturally born alicorn? That completely trivialises Twilight's ascension!
After the premier:
>Why the fuck aren't Celestia and Luna naturally born alicorns? REEEEEE!
Never change, /mlp/.
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>>26879655
>celestia
You mean every single character?
Everyone but Twilight got flanderized to shit, but Twilight got hit with the Messiah Creep anyway so she's not even pure.
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>still watching the show
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>>26879635
>Book merely says they were Alicorms when Starswirl the Neckbearded found them.
>This means they were born that way in canon.
>This apple was rotten when I found it.
>That means this apple was always rotten.
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>>26879698
Yep yep yep.
I hope we get to see that thing someday, just to cry over what could have been.
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>>26879727
That would imply they accomplished a alicornification-worthy feat BEFORE getting their Sun and Moon cutie marks. It doesn't make sense.
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>>26879727
Well if the apple is a metaphor for you, then yes.
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>>26879698
Has anyone told Amy, Haber or Lauren what was said in this episode?
Or any staff at all? If they can make a major change to an episode in Derpy's case then a few lines of dialog could also be done.
#Alicorngate
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>>26879750
Who said they had to have earned it? All you need is some crackpot alicorn to go up to two unsuspecting foals and go "WE ALICORNS NOW" and puff, they're alicorns. All we know is that it can be done, it's never stated they need to be qualified for it.
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>>26879809
But that's exactly what was stated in today's episode.
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>>26879822
The only ascension we know of were performed by Celestia, who we know has a moral code. It's never implied that alicorns can't do it, just that Celestia can't or won't do it. Who knows about other alicorns.
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>>26879793
Could we actually pull that off? I feel as if they say no that it means they have something planned in the future.
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>>26879887
>Moral Code
>As taught by Starswirl "It's Somebody Else's Problem" the Bearded.
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>>26879900
No.
Derpygate worked because they had a legitimate criticism and they represented a huge portion of the target demographic (soccer moms are the gateway to Toys R Us).
Hasbro has been ignoring us for half a decade, they know we're not serious OR important enough to pander to.
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>>26879989
And I mean "legitimate" in the sense that, if they were right about the voice, it could have an impact on actual people.
A lore discrepancy doesn't affect anybody in any serious way.
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>>26879390
yo where can I get it?
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>>26879793
I support #Alicorngate
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>>26879106
Where in the episode did it explicitly imply that they aren't?
I distinctly recall the line you're referring to talking about how the birth of an alicorn in Equestria was unheard of, yet was established in JotTS that Celestia and Luna aren't from Equestria.
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>>26879106
you know that they could have been born alicorns.
>celestia/luna were around before Equestria was founded
>"The birth of an alicorn is something Equestria has never seen."
>"It is beyond even our understanding."
nothing stated contradicts the notion that Celestia/Luna were born alicorns.
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>>26879573
> Now that we are princesses..
Which means they weren't princesses before, which means they weren't born into a royal family, which means they must have turned into alicorns at a young age (maybe some ancient ceremony for which they were chosen because of reasons).
Now, I haven't read those journals, so I don't know how much more backstory is in there in regards to their childhood.
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>>26879153
nice b8 faggot
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>>26880179
where did they say that celestia/luna weren't born alicorns
there's more evidence to suggest that Alicorns are a girls only club.
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>>26880250
>there's never been an alicorn born in equestria before
or some shit
I know the HD stream shit itself right at that moment, but you could have at least watched the thing before arguing with people about it.
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>>26880265
see>>26880108
Celestia/Luna were from before Equestria's founding.
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>>26880265
And Celestia and Luna aren't from Equestria
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>>26880286
Didn't mean to post the pic but okay
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>>26880283
>>26880286
Obviously, but that motherfucker's acting like there's no possible way that someone could have gotten confused about the meaning of the sentence.
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>Celly and Luna were mere mortals who ascended
Say whatever you want about lore rape, but you gotta admit it would make a really interesting origin story
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>>26880286
>pinkie stated pegasus and unicorn, but no earth pony
the books have been overruled as credible
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>>26880358
Yeah, it would. It would also bring them down to earth and humanize them a lot more.
I'm convinced that all these crying children are just mad that their powerhouse waifu's purity of superiority was questioned.
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>>26879793
In the episode they said it's never happened "IN EQUESTRIA". They don't know what to do with a newborn Alicorn since they were raised by Alicorns originally. They didn't get to see an Alicorn nursery or anything and Equestrian stuff wasn't necessarily equipped to deal with the power of a baby like that.
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>>26880135
>all princesses = alicorns
>all alicorns = princesses
No. Go be wrong somewhere else.
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>>26880390
>humanize
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>One vague easily misinterpreted statement
>THE SHOW'S LORE IS RUINED! ALICRONS NOT SPECIAL REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
suck my dick fat /mlp/
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>>26880454
>dick fat
I'm not sure if that was intentional or not.
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>>26880449
I was just about to say that but we both know well what he meant.
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>>26880449
>implying there's another way to say that
>>26880471
what did he mean by these words
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>>26880471
Shut up and suck the fat around his dick you faget!
>>
can't we all agree that we have not enough information to know for sure? The continuity is fucked up enough as it is.
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>>26880449
TRIGGERED
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>>26879390
Whit I didn't know about this I thought there was just the journal anybody got a link
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>>26880265
Said by Celestial, Queen if exact words. And she's right. In the same way somebody saying there was never a Dread Pirate Roberts born in Gilder in some weird Princess Bride fandom.
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>>26880426
I just think that in this case becoming a princess is synonymous with becoming an alicorn.
If their parents were royal, then they'd be princesses from the day they were born.
But yeah, they could have been born as alicorns and had some ugly duckling story attached to them, before the ponies realized their worth and cowned them princesses.
Then again, maybe there is some sort of reclusive or now banished, sealed away, etc. king (or queen or both) in the mlp. The one who was a natural born alicorn and bestowed the honour upon the two sisters.
Who knows. But I do hope they delve into that soon.
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>>26879106
dumb frog poster
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>>26880500
I think alligator poster meant to suck until his dick was fat, not to suck the physical fat hidden around his dick.
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>>26880509
To be honest i am glad with whatever we get in this case, since season 2 alicorns became something similar to super saiyans, first they were this mysterious, unique transformation only really specific people could attempt, them other characters started doing it and when we least realized it they were fucking everywhere and the transformation itself stopped being that impressive, Celly and Luna are Goku and Vegetta, Candy ass is Trunks, Twilight is Gohan and Flurry is Gothen
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>>26880091
They said the line in response to an alicorn being born, at all.
It's obvious what has happened: The JotTS ISN'T CANON YOU FUCKTARDS
Why do you pathetic idiots even start to think of it as canon is beyond me.
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>>26880601
>Princess Celestia: The birth of an Alicorn is something Equestria has never seen!
>something Equestria has never seen
>Equestria
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>>26880566
Well, we have prince Blueblood and princess Cadance, these two being all the proof we need to know that
1. not all princes/ses are alicorns,
2. C&L's power doesn't come from their title.
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>>26880660
IN RESPONSE TO AN ALICORN BEING BORN AT ALL
If it had been a common thing in her home town or wherever, she would have said something along the lines of "Since cadence pushed it out of her womb in this part of the world and not in another part of the world, this is unexpected"
holy crap are you guys stupid, they simply retconned that book, nothing more nothing less
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>>26880692
Well blimey, I completely forgot about that shmock.
Also he the supposed nephew of Celestia. Did that ever come up in some adaptation outside of the show?
How exactly are they related? Is he just her great-great-great-great-great-nephew?
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>>26879390
>official
>canon
So I guess comics are canon too.
>>
>>26880791
Comics are written by different staff. The Journal could literally be an episode. What's the point in having supplementary lore if you just write it off as non canon?
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>>26880057
Google.
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>>26880768
The "nephew" part might just be a title. We can't know. Maybe Celestia runs an orphanage and all the orphans call her "auntie", and Blueblood is an orphan who justhad enough luck that the society bought his lies of him being royalty... Or something else.
If we took the title "auntie" literally, then either
1. Luna is his mother
or
2. C&L have a third sister we know jack shit about.
>>
well thanks guys this thread is enough autism for me today cya bye bye
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>>26880902
What you're witnessing is just a standard show discussion. If you don't know that, then you're a glaring newfag and your leaving will be collectively appreciated by everybody.
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>>26880902
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>>26880750
That's presuming a bit, I think. Taken at face value they are surprised an Alicorn was capable of being born in Equestria. Before this point, the only place Alicorns came from was Celestia and Luna's homeland and through magical feats like Cadance and Twilight.
If read within the canon there's nothing inconsistent. It only retcons the book if you assume further context to her words that are not specified.
If she had said "The birth of an Alicorn is something that has never been seen", you might have a point, but she said it was something "Equestria" hadn't seen before. Big difference in meaning.
>>
This thread brings me back to the days when people freaked out over Cadence being an alicorn.
I'm actually starting to get fond of this drama.
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>>26880959
This niggerfaggot gets it.
>>
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>>26880959
I'm with this guy.
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>>26880959
That's what happens when they pull alicorns out of their asses.
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>>26880894
Most likely Blueblood is her adopted nephew. Luna can't be the mommy, since Blueblood should have born during her banishment, judging from his age. And Faust said C&L don't have other siblings
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>>26881035
Celly and Luna are old as shit, as far as we know blueblood could be Celly's great great great grandson
>>
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>>26881030
>Hasjew exec's rn
>'W-why don't we just make them ALL alicorns xDD'
>>
>>26880959
This is how hasdrones co-opt discontent, they've done it since Twilicorn, don't let them pull you down.
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>>26880840
Those sweet juicy $$$, I guess?
>>
>>26881072
Well... Honestly, I always imagined the royal sisters as virgins
>>
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>>26881105
Anon please, now you're being cute
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>>26881030
I wanted to say it wasn't really pulled out of their ass because an alicorn was pregnant after all (something married couples tend to do), but Cadance did sort of literally pull it out of her ass, in a sense.
>>
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>>26881138
that's called a vagina
>>
>>26881105
With their age, they gotta be walking Kámasútras, friendó
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>you will never suck the fat around Shining Armor's dick
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>>26881105
Gosh golly we'd love to have you in /sun/ sometime so you can further explain that.
>>
>>26879106
Well, whose to say they weren't?
I mean memory is a rocky thing, especially for beings over a thousand years old who have watched the exact opposite be true for the past thousand years.
They remembered fuck all about the empire despite knowing enough that they needed to save them.
>>
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>>26881153
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>>26879106
I miss when everyone thought the Royal Sisters were goddesses
>>
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>>26881186
I could... Where is the thread?
>>
>>26881358
Tomorrow you fucking newpal.
>>
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>>26881376
I-I'm not new, I swear...
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>>26881423
why is her right eye swollen
>>
>>26881444
Someone forgot how to perspective.
>>
>>26881473
and they hit her for that?
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>>26881486
I think it's more like they forgot to not hit her.
>>
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>>26881423
>sunhorse can't into memes
>"Good morning, Anonymous."
>'Heheh, implying, ecks dee.'
>"..I see we're still doing this then."
>'For you.'
>>
>>26881162
Luna could be an exception.
She was locked up in the moon for the past 1000 years, after all.
>>
>>26879106
Fuck off frogposter.
>>
>>26879655
>presses A
SHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUN
>>
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>>26880791
>comics
>not canon
shiggy diggy doo-doo
>>
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>>26879106
Meh, it seems fine to me.
The whole "it has never happened before, we have no understanding of it" didn't perplex me.
Their origin is extremely vague at best, so I interpreted it as them being so fucking old that no-one was around to see how they came to be, and they of course don't remember it themselves which is pretty damn normal.
>>
>>26881758
they are as canon as the movies you idiot, and i would rather have canonical Shimmer than all the SJW garbage that happens on them
>>
>>26879691 (you)
>mlp is one person
>you can only complain about one flaw
>>
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>>26879106
I AM ANGRY ABOUT IT!!
ROOOOOOOOOOO!!!
>>
>>26881780
>It's not cnaon becaus eI don't like it
>I-idiot
nice argument, boyo.
>>
>>26879471
>>26879442
Are people not tired of all the Faust posturing yet?
>>
>>26879106
Mark my words, hasdrones. In the end they (mane V) all gonna end as fucking alicorns
>>
>>26881839
No, its not canon because of all the moments it fucks with continuity and its lore that, to be linked to FiM, its almost as stretched as your asshole, shit like reflections and dragontown are the prime examples of that
>>
>>26881814
Back to /R9K/ with you too, frogfag.
>>
>>26880585
Nah, unlike Balls of the Dragon, it's a collaboration. The SS escalation in DB Whatever was basically Toriyama trying to crash the franchise with no survivors. The Alicorn Escalation seems to be from multiple writers, and the fact that canon on them is as shakey as new dad Shiney, lets face it, the only thing we've gotten from primary canon (and yes I'm putting the Journal and Candyass' book in there) is that the two big ones were found by Starswirl (Journal) or and the others can be an ascension (Candyass' book, MMC). Also note that Equestria for some time has referred to a specific area of the world, which has a founding. Note for Faust Vision fags, this was pretty much confirmed with Heathswarming Eve, which Faust had a part in. Also note that the Crystal "Empire" is now merely a state of Equestria.
tl;dr Celestial and Luna can be born alicorns, and the statement she said can be true, if you're not a faggot.
>>
>>26881870
I doubt it. To me, one of the reasons to include Starlight with the gang was to "restore" the balance of 2 pegasi, 2 earth ponies and 2 unicorns, while Twilight is now, unfortunately, more of a mentor/voice of the reason of the group compared to the others.
>>
>>26879106
Canonicity level
Journal>Haber's shit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GydX9WE2bws
>>
>>26881814
Hello (R)eddit!
>>
>>26882069
That would be stretching the plot and not in a lewd way
>The SS escalation in DB Whatever was basically Toriyama trying to crash the franchise with no survivors
sounds like FiM to me, the reason why they pushed shit like Candy Ass and twilicorn was because Celly and Luna didn't sold well enough
>>
>>26879106
Was this actually said? I missed the episode and now I'm thinking about not bothering to watch it at all.
After S2 the canon went to shit anyway, but this is pretty ridiculous. I miss the old fanon.
>>
>>26879106
It's not like it actually matters. They have ascended so long ago that they might as well always have been alicorns.
I do wanna know which race they belonged to before their ascension though.
>>
>>26882466
nah, they said it's never been seen in Equestria, which some people are saying means alicorns can't be born, which is a dumb way to look at it
>>
>>26882445
>Trunks
>OC
Boy /a/ would be losing their shit at this image.
>>
>>26882514
Oh, well that is dumb. Especially since it's never established where the two of them came from in the first place. It just establishes that they've never fucked anyone before. I'm still generally mad about alicorns being cheapened every season, but whatever. Thanks.
>>
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>>26882466
>I'm thinking about not bothering to watch it at all
>>
>>26880426
This. In MMC it is basically stated that alicornhood and being a princess is not necessarily related. All of the main6 are surprised when Celestia tells them that Twilight is now a princess.
>>
>>26882542
Try saying out loud everything that characterizes him without actually saying his name, how he is the son of the prince of the saiyans, a time traveler from a destroyed future who was trained by Gohan himself, how he uses a sword for some reason even though he can fight just fine, how he achieved an unique transformation none of the other main characters could do
>>
Call me whatever you want but isn't this like Celestia and Luna are kinda god like beings?
I don't know any history about their origin sooo...
And what about Cadance? How she became an Alicorn.
>>
>>26881243
They essentially are.
>powerful enough to move celestial bodies
>so long lived they might as well be immortal
>revered by their subjects
That would count as god in pretty much every culture but the ones that were influenced by monotheistic religions.
>>
see >>26879698
Also Candy Ass used to be a pegasus who ascended just like Twiggy at some point, can't remember where i read this so i may be wrong though
>>
>>26882786
meant for >>26882739
>>
>>26882786
>can't remember where i read this so i may be wrong though
It's in Cadance's book. She's an ascended pegasus
>>
I just realized something. Wings are something you get for a crazy magical achievement, right? What if Cadance and Shining's sex was just that good?
>>
>>26882770
It's also been stated that the unicorns were responsible for moving the sun and moon before Luna and Celestia did.
But I'm not sure if Hearth's Warming Eve was being developed while Faust was still in, and it was also written by one of the more unpopular writers, so take what you will.
>>
I just thought about something else.
They told alicorn was never seen to be born.
But how could they see an alicorn if cadance was the first alicorn to have a baby.
Pegasus and unicorn can't have a alicorn but alicorn and anything else can. Seems good to me.
>>
>>26879698
>not watching the show
I came here all the way from /pol/ to laugh at you
>>
....Does this mean they tried to have children of their own....but they were mortal?
>>
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>>26882974
Celestia and Luna doomed to always produce normies.
>>
>>26881913
>it's not canon because it fucks with continuity and lore
Bad news everyone; the show itself isn't canon
>>
so... does that mean twilight WILL have a longer lifespan than her friends.
>>
>>26883375
Physiologically, yes, which makes the proposition that she won't outlive her friends kind of daunting.
>>
As soon as I heard that like I knew there would be so much delicious drama. Thank you based Haber.
>>
I cant wait till next year when everyone is cool with princesses not being born alicorns and new baby alicorn
>>
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>>26879484
>>
>>26879531
Tripfag
>>
>>26879106
>you now remember that Luna was referred to as a pegasus in the first two minutes of the show
>>
>>26882889
If I remember Faust said she was heavily involved in that episode and Luna Eclipsed. In response to somebody asking, likely in response to CR's reviews way back when.
>>
>>26883721
not complaining=/= being ok with it
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>>26879484
Faust created a show Bible really early on that the writers and such reference to keep the world consistent. A few pages got leaked when some season 1 MLP assets leaked a while back.
>>
>>26879633
Full image ples.
>>
>>26884714
You don't want that full image.
No one deserves to have it inflicted on them.
>>
>>26879106
It isn't confirmed just because the sisters haven't heard of natural-born alicorns, maybe they don't remember their own birth, or were never born normally in the first place. Maybe one day they just materialized and started existing.
>>
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THEY RUINED MY HEADCANON AND I REFUSE TO BELIEVE WHAT CELESTICUNT SAID.
Maybe she lied so more people wouldn't try to try for baby alicorns...
MFW
>>
>>26884733
they haven't heard of equestrian-born alicorns. Big difference. Fuck, why do people think equestria means everything?
>>
>>26884733
THIS PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF NOT CELESTICUNT
>>
>>26884762
yes, maybe alicorns don't naturally come from equestria.
never thought of that...
maybe they come from a long lost continent they don't know if it really exists or not
>>
>>26884778
if you've read the Journal of the Two Sisters, you'd know they were adolescent Alicorns at the founding of Equestria, so they're de-facto pre-Equestria.
>>
>>26884824
Haven't gotten to it.
This is calming....
>>
>Despite being newborn, she looks nothing like the proper newborn foal design.
>They straight up acknowledge that there's no reason for Flurry Heart to be an alicorn.
>>
>>26884857
Aside from... I dunno, being born from an alicorn? Genes are already fucky when two earth ponies produced a unicorn and a pegasus. It's not unsurprising that an alicorn and a unicorn would produce an alicorn. It's almost expected.
>>
>>26884762
Because they didn't realize that they just replaced some things with mlp related terms in the early seasons, like "what in the wide world of Equestria", just being a play on "what in the wide world of sports".
>>
>>26884871
Reminder: One of the easiest ways to spot neo/mlp/ is by paying attention to how they address contradictions in the lore.
While a rational human being might look on an inconsistency within a fictional world as the fault of a forgetful or inconsiderate producer, neo/mlp/ does something different.
What they do, is they construct /fanon/ reasons why the contradictions are not actually contradictions. These may be inferences from canon, assertions supported by faux-canon (such as The Journal of Two Sisters or the comics), or outright fabrications.
The quality of these excuses is not important. What is important is that they provide even, at the very least, a tiny flake of hope. Neo/mlp/ latches onto this hope like a parasite. They will use this hope, this perversion of a frail logic, to argue relentlessly with those that disagree with them.
If you see neo/mlp/, do not talk to them. Ignore them. Hide their posts. Hide their replies. They only have power over you if you allow them to, do not give them the satisfaction.
>>
>>26884941
except that the princesses are older than equestria, and there are plenty of reasons that a newborn alicorn would be new to them
>>
>>26884969
I've been here for years faggot, if my canon-based responses trigger you, feel free to hide my replies.
>>
>>26884969
Meanwhile faggots who use the neo/mlp/ meme will ignore anything they don't consider canon, right down to hold overs that have been disproven since S1 or S2 (eg the whole world being Equestria, alicorns being gods, Luna being on the moon, the armies of Luna and Celestia clashing, and so forth).
All of which canon has promptly shit on, but faggots continue to sperg out when the show reminds them.
>>26884987
That was the point anon, see the above, I'm almost to the point of calling them Dark Matter Butterfly Believers or something with how brainless they are.
>>
>>26885084
No worries, it seems like too many these days think it's still season 1 and believe retarded headcanons popularized by fanon. Something is either canon or it isn't. Unless the show explicitly contradicts itself there's no reason to distrust it as a source of universe shit.
>>
>>26885115
Hell I'm willing to give secondary canon (such as the JotTS, Cadence's storybook, or the non-contradictory comics) a fare shake at filling in things. But I'm reading you loud and clear on this idiotic shit, where a popular fanon becomes, show canon contradicts itself.
Gonna laugh if the faggot tries using the flag from HWE as proof, since, you know that part was clearly on the stage part of the play and not the weird "actual" possible history part, and is the equivalent of using the French Tricolor for shit during The US war for independence instead of the Bourbon Banner.
>>
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>>26885084
>>26885115
>>26885238
>>
>>26885264
Did I trigger you anon? I can back up everything I said up there using S1 and early S2 canon shit. Hell maybe even point out where the retarded fanon came from.
>>
>>26885304
Dude, I literally couldn't care less about whatever point you were trying to make. I don't give a shit about alicorn biology. The only reason I bother to disagree with you is because you're trying to defend a part of the rotting organ failure the show has become.
Even if it's incorrect, It's more important that someone remind you that the entire thing was shit than the intricacies of how pony sex works.
Oh, and it "works" by plot convenience. The writers don't give a fuck about some hereditary system you've outlined in your head. Just an fyi.
>>
>>26884871
genetics exists in equestria
>>
>>26885407
Heredity in this situation:
1 Alicorn
1 Unicorn
a simple linnaean chart suggests a pretty strong chance of alicorn
>>
>>26885437
since Mr Cake justified his case really frantically, and Pinkie did her whole cousins study with AJ, I'd say yes. Genetics are confirmed canon.
>>
>>26885407
No shit Sherlock, this show's run on plot convenience since Episode 3 at least, if not episode 1 (spoiler, there's a goatse sized plot hole in nobody knowing who Nightmare Moon is, even if it's an old Pony tale).
To quote Faust, they don't hammer logic too hard on this show. And hell I was talking about what you straight up responded to (the faggotry of muh Equestria = World fanon that's been disproven since Hearthswarming Eve). Maybe if you had read that you'd get the gist of what was being said. The truth is all this deep lore shit is 98% fanon, see the above examples. Hell even assuming pastel colored Pony genetics are the same as ours is fanon given the convolutedness of both the Cake explanation and Pinkie and AJ being more distantly related than most total strangers.
>>
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>>26884987
Thats retarded anon. Either they remember being alicorns all their life or they don't. Given that they specifically said that being born an alicorn was beyond their understanding, that means they remember a time when they weren't alicorns.
If they remember beign an alicorn in their earliest years ot they remember their parents then the concept of being born an alicorn wouldn't be all that confusing, but they specifically denied that as a possibility.
>>
>>26885643
Imagine not seeing a newborn alicorn your entire life after living over a thousand years. You'd be confused too
>>
>>26885562
>98% of deep lore shit is fanon
yeah, which is why people need to stop arguing about its importance to a shit episode.
>>
>>26885643
>I'll ignore the in Equestria or I'll be a retard and conveniently ignore that Equestria is the equivalent of saying in the US.
Which is it anon, also can you tell us about your birth and early childhood, you can't use anything you heard from anybody else, just yourself.
>>
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So if Luna and Celestia, devil's advocate, were not born alicorns and had to ascend just like everyone else, and they're both undebatably super long lived if not outright immortal from a lifespan perspective....
....doesn't that put Twilight outliving all her friends right back on the table? THEY get to live forever, so it only makes sense that Candyass is going to watch her husband wither and die while she remains young and Twily is going to leave flowers on her buddies' graves which she has scarcely aged a day since her transformation. Right?
The whole thing is super fucky.
>>
>>26885674
Truthfully I thought it was okay, not great, but not entirely shit. Saw no contradictions anywhere (including re: Sun and Moon Butts saying no alicorns born in Equestria) and being fucking confused. And that's from both canon and 1st teir EU.
>>
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>>26882641
Cadance is the daughter of Luna and is a time traveler from one of Starlight's futures. She was trained by Twilight herself. She uses her guards even though she can fight just fine. She has achieved an understanding of love that none of the others have.
Rarity is Bulma. No take-backs.
>>
>>26885777
Trips speak truth, and is one of the reasons I favor the interpretation they were using 'Equestria' here to mean the nation formed after the 3 tribes united.
Taking the devil's advocate game here further, there are two possibilities that might allow both the statements 'alicorns are inherently unaging' and 'Twilight will not outlive her friends' to be true.
>Alicorns are not inherently long-lived, but may become unaging through a connection with an unusually powerful source of energy (i.e., sun or moon, possibly crystal heart)
Arguably supported by the Journal, where it outright say the connection with sun/moon keep the sisters eternally young. However, the book also says that alicorns 'age differently' than most ponies, so that potentially invalidates this.
>Twilight is unaging, and will not outlive her friends due to death by unnatural causes (i.e., violence or sickness)
Nothing explicitly says this is impossible, but I'll apply a bit of Occam's Razor and say the staff probably wasn't imagining the violent death of the main character when they made the comment about not outliving her friends, they just meant she would live a natural lifespan.
>>
>>26885975
Of course taking in the Doylean thing of it only referring to the nation/land and the wide world being a S1 love of referring to and mlping old references (in this case what in the wide world of sports is going on here).
Basically the Equestria=World thing has been fucked since at least S2e1&2.
>>
>>26879106
>the baby is a unicorn and a pegasus!
they didnt mention it being an earth pony
checkmate earth pony fags, proof they are inferior
>>
>>26885750
>being this retarded
I understand how desperate you are to protect your headcanon but the phrase 'in equestria' changes nothing. The birth of an alicorn from an alicorn was beyond their understanding, if journal of the two sisters was still canon then Celestia and Luna would remember growing up with an entire civilization of alicorns and natural births would not confuse them.
>>
>>26886227
Except it mentions nothing of them growing up there from what I remember.
Even if it did, there's already a problem with the assumption they'd know what the fuck was going on. First off it's a goddamn alicorn from (if we allow Cadence's ascension) a pegasus made alicorn and a unicorn, not two full-blooded alicorns. Even if we don't allow for Cadence moving up to alicorn status, you still have, the above, just change "a pegusus made" with "an".
As for the importance of "in Equestria" given the above, McFlurry would still Bevan unknown, and goddamn WTF worthy even to born and raised alicorns, particularly ones that most likely haven't see one born for millennia, especially in a land where the only three others are your sister and fellow migrant royalty, a pegusus who became one, and a unicorn who became one. Note the lack of native Equestrian born there is there.
If the complaint is genetics, it's already fucked since the lore on that is don't hammer that logic too hard, it's not really necessary for a kids show, which would fall under that old quote by Lauren.
If anything the massive retardation is the fact faggots got butthurt over muh headcanon.
>>
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>>26879106
Warning. Haber's episode is not canon. Do not watch it.
>>
>>26886503
i think the entire season might revolve around alicorns
>S6 IS CONFIRMED FOR NON-CANON
>STARLIGHT GLIMMER ISN'T ACTUALLY TWILIGHT'S PUPIL
>FLURRY HEART DOESN'T REALLY EXIST
>>
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FULL DAMAGE CONTROL
>>
>>26886503
>>26887210
>>26887796
simply ebin
>>
>>26887796
HAHA he doesn't even know what he's writing.
>>
>>26879106
>>26863016
why no one listen to me?.
-Plony
>>
>>26887868
because you're a retard
>>
>>26887885
Is that a bait?, try harder, retard.
>>
>>26887868
Because the baord is full of ponychan tier shills while oldfags left the ride or camp in /trash/ for porn. If i had any power over 4chan I would remove this board. No one would realy care to cause drama like in 2011 and the shills would just return to EQD and RoundStable shitholes.
>>
>>
>>26886503
>Warning. Haber's episode is not canon. Do not watch it.
MFW all this peoples think MLP:FIM after Mrs.Lauren Faust left the show is canon.
>Because the baord is full of ponychan tier shills while oldfags left the ride or camp in /trash/ for porn. If i had any power over 4chan I would remove this board. No one would realy care to cause drama like in 2011 and the shills would just return to EQD and RoundStable shitholes.
You make me smile.
>>
>>26887967
Well time for you to go, anon pointed you right where your trying to hide your newness behind the boogeyman of neo/mlp/ belongs. No wait we shouldn't subject /trash/ to that, go back to Reddonychan.
>>
>>26880135
Incorret.
Keating stated that Luna and Celly were born alicorns. The journal explains how they became princesses after the founding of Equestria.
>>26884857
>>26884871
Well, I'm actually ok with Flurry being an alicorn, it's the Celestia dialogue they messed up in that part what people seems to be annoyed.
Hell, not even Jim was aware about it.
>>
>>26886503
Don't be silly and start exaggerating. The episode was fine.
That little dialogue fuck up can be easily be fixed by future episodes.
So there you go. Luna and Celly were born alicorn. Pack everything. And move on.
>>
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>>26884733
Yeah, word of Faust from back when she was relevant (S2 I think) actually states that Celestia and Luna have never had no parents or direct relatives and thus weren't born in the conventional sense
>>
>>26887967
Well I guess the actual oldfags don't have a place here anymore. Eh. It's a board. I'll just miss the discussions and fun.
>>
>>26879106
An alicorn has never been born in Equestria.
They never said that the sisters was born in Equestria. They founded Equestria after defeating Discord. Although can we all agree this is some stupid stuff?
>>
>>26889993
>they founded equestria
can you remind me what that business was with the three races who fought each other until they united because I honestly don't remember
>>
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>>26879106
wow it's only the first two eps of the season and we already have a reason to be furious
fucking retarded writers can't they do anything right? at this point I'd trust a random deviantarter to do a better job
>>
>>26889911
They were supposed to be more demi-god type of characters; things that exist beyond and above the physical order. They half-divine in the sense that they control the moon and sun but also have their own ego and consciousness.
>>
>>26890037
If they were supposed to be that then they failed spectacularly. At no point have Celestia or Luna being anything more than abnormally tall, lanky ponies. They can't do shit other than be really old.
They sure as shit are any form of god
>>
>>26889993
Actually Discord was after.
>>
>>26886503
WELL YOU ARENT PART OF THE SHOE ANYMORE YOU BITCH SO ITS TOO LATE TO UNDO THIS.
>>
>>26890070
Well, if you read a bit about non western or dead religions it wouldn't be hard to find similar deities, with the only substantial difference being that they actually walk the earth among their would-be worshippers
>>
>>26890142
They aren't even dieties. What would Highlanders be classified as? I mean they live forever unless you cut their head off, but they aren't anything special otherwise. At least not that I remember.
>>
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>>26886503
thanks anon, guess I'm skipping this season
I hope s7 will be canon
>>
>>26890020
The timeline is, as best as I can cobble together, something like this:
>Ponies arrive as three distinct tribes. Alicorns appear to exist independently of them. (Ref: Journal)
>Starswirl is born and rises to a prominent position as a sorcerer (Ref: Twilight's line, "most important sorcerer of the pre-classical era")
>Unification and defeat of the Windigos occurs. Unicorns continue to control the sun/moon at this point. (Ref: "HWE", Journal)
> Princess Platinum becomes a figurehead leader as part of the unification, making Starswirl the de facto leader of the unicorns. (Ref: Journal)
>Starswirl discovers Celestia and Luna, approaches them to act as rulers/governors. Their position is also more as figureheads at first. (Ref: Journal)
>C/L take up moving the Sun and Moon; politically, however, their power is still limited. (Ref: Journal)
>Tirek appears and is defeated by Starswirl (Ref: PTK)
>Starswirl dies (Ref: Implied by absence during later events)
>Discord appears and seizes control of the land for an unclear period of time. C/L eventually take up the elements and defeat him. (Ref: Journal, "RoH")
> In the aftermath, old government structures are all but lost. C/L reform the government and take up full duties as diarchs. (Implied - all previous figures now absent, may be why the flag with Celestia/Luna is used in HWE - previous flag was actually lost during Discord's reign.)
>NMM occurs
>>
>>26890020
>>26890075
Can we still agree it they never said the sisters was never born in equestria..
>>
>>26890253
>Starswirl dies (Ref: Implied by absence during later events)
>before C&L cutiemarks
I'm pretty sure that the Journal mentioned that Starswirl asked the sisters to rise the sun/moon because the unicorns were getting exhausted every passing day. When they do that, the sisters find that this is what they're meant to do and thus get their cutiemarks.
>>
>>26890253
Ayy can you direct me to this journal you keep refingJust curious. As i have no idea what you are talking about. I believe you though
>>
>>26890350
https://yp1.yayponies.no/book.php
Journal of the two sisters
>>
>>26890499
oops, seems the particular book is not in this archive...
oh well you can always google it.
>>
>>26890308
>In before C/L cutie marks
Uh, I have that after their marks
>C/L take up moving the Sun and Moon; politically, however, their power is still limited. (Ref: Journal)
This is when they get their cutie marks. Should have clarified, I meant political power as opposed to the total diarchs they are post-Discord.
>>
>>26890499
>>26890556
http://www.mediafire.com/download/y6sne0snt8ct963/The+Journal+of+the+Two+Sisters+%28fixed+page+order%29.cbz
Got on the archives. Enjoy, it's an interesting reading.
>>
>>26890169
kek
>>
>>26890590
You're right, I skipped that line somehow. My bad.
>>
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>>26889911
She actually said she imagined them with parents
>>
Celly and luna are the first and only pure alicorns. They were adolesence at equestrias founding as they were born through conjuring efforts for a universial species leader unbias to the races unlike those present. They had to be raised from conjured foals to understand land law and leadership. By this they are the children of three races three parents. Therefore still with some parental figure. It makes sense with this as no alicorns prior or born since. Three races never said and came with a lie to solidify loyalty to ponykind as ponykind would be to the princesses. Candy and sparkly are them as there is background magic from event, therefore also causing flurry was the magic.
>>
>>26890499
>>26890593
Thanks senpai
>>
BASED JIM
>>
>>26891151
I take it back about Jim.
He does actually have common sense after all.
>>
>>26891076
That can't be possible. The journal of the two sisters describe that Celestia and Luna were adults when Stawrswirl found them. That means they didn't have direct contact to regular ponies until after the founding of Equestria. Whether they were born, ascended or created, it definitely wasn't the ponies who did it.
>>
>>26890810
But when asked about Blueblood's relation to them she did say that they have no direct relatives and on other occasion explicitly stated that they have no parents, and that was back when she was still working on the show.
oh god dammit If only I had paid my internet bill on time... Oh well.
>>
>>
>>26891666
Yeah, because apparently even the fandom can do a better job.
>>
>>26891666
wow what a fucking faggot
he obviously has no fucking idea what the fuck he's writing. everything he says and writes should be disregarded
>>
>>26891666
So that's it.
The writer was a faggot that never bothered to soak himself in the official worldbuilding. Godammit, it doesn't even take that much of time to read the goddammed journal. Was he writing on a napkin in some Starbucks or something? Geez...
He's lucky that dialogue fuck up can be easily fixed in future episodes.
>>
>>26879106
Oh, I'm angry alright.
>>
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>>26891666
>cheeky fuck
>not catering to bronies
i like this guy.
>>
>>26891666
I think what Celestia said doesn't bother me as much as the revelation that this writer just plain doesn't give a shit about the established world.
Like, now that Celestia has inferred that neither she nor her sister were born alicorns, it would be nice if they could stipulate and build on that, but I'm certain that they won't because they don't care. The writing is just what they need it to be for the moment.
>>
>>26879106
They're probably keeping their origins as vague as possible so they have a grand reveal in the movie. The journal completely glossed over their childhoods, pretty much only really starting after they met Starswirl.
The three most likely options are
>Royal Sisters are ascended Earth Ponies
>Royal Sisters are born alicorns
>Royal Sisters were created by magic, sort of like what >>26891076 said.
>>
>>26893020
The sad truth is it's been this way for at least 2-3 seasons now. The thing is that as your world becomes more populated, you have less 'wiggle room' to work in and what was once taken as 'worldbuilding' becomes 'lack of care about existing lore'. If some of the things that happened during earlier seasons - alicorn amulet, I'm looking at you - happened now, we'd be crying bullshit too. Suspension of disbelief is stronger earlier on, though.
>>
>>26893406
People have grown up since then, it's harder to not question these things anymore. The shitstorms of the past have led to people becoming bitter. The show is not new and shiny anymore and has created a world, and It's harder to expand on already existing things than it is to add them. I hope these new writers are good enough not to fuck everything up by destroying the world that the past writers have built, however this all relies on them giving a shit though, why would they do that for a kids show?;_;
>>
>>26879417
>The info we have on the draft for the first version of the movie also confirms that.
Excuse me?
>>
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>>26891666
This is disgusting.
t. sunfag
>>
>>26882445
>paceful
>teached
Fuck off
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