Hey, /m/, hey! Okay. I just realized something. Some Gundam

>>15853146
There are AI units in Gundam, they're just really expensive or not very good in most continuities, ex. ALICE and Death Army respectively. But you're looking for Duo in the DSH vs the MD versions of the Vayaete and Mercurius.

>>15853173
>expensive
>Not very good
How is that even possible. Did any gundam title actually say that?

I mean, AI is supposed to be foolproof and simple. This is how AI syntax should look like, my AMD PC can do this.
- Go to this coordinate
- If something is moving, check for hostiles
- If possible hostile is found, check if friendly or just debris, if not, shoot where its going.
- If target is close, hit it with your melee, weapon.
- If damaged beyond capability to attack, do a suicide bomber attack
- If target is destroyed, move to new coordinate, and check for hostiles.

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>>15853296
>How is that even possible. Did any gundam title actually say that?
Not both, usually one or the other. ALICE was a learning AI that achieved sentience and sacrificed itself to save its crew and finish off the enemy at the end of the story.

Gundam Wing's mobile dolls weren't exactly shitty, they were definitely deadly against average soldiers. The named characters in Wing struggled with them for a bit but eventually learned to deal with them. The physical machines had relatively high end specs compared to most other MP suits, but the AI was simplistic. While the AI did have fast reaction times, they were later shown to have flaws in that they were predictable and early on they didn't have proper failsafes to ensure that they wouldn't take orders the wrong way. They were best used when there were officers to give them orders, but it wasn't necessary. Later on newer model mobile dolls are able to be used with strategic and tactical improvements, especially when managed by a person.

>I mean, AI is supposed to be foolproof and simple. This is how AI syntax should look like, my AMD PC can do this.
>[example]
That is exactly what the mobile dolls do in Wing, as well as the Death Army suits from G Gundam. That doesn't mean they're particularly smart or tough enemies, though. Death army grunts were the absolute bottom tier. They were "piloted" by reanimated corpses, were usually slow to react, and died by the hundreds, but they attacked by the thousands.

When you have a dramatic story that involves AI being the enemy, there's only so many ways to make it possible for them to be defeated. If they didn't have any flaws and were objectively superior, then how do you write a way to defeat them? Someone who has a better grasp of storytelling can probably figure something out, but the usual easy solution is that they are inherently shitty or have some kind of critical flaw.

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>>15853146
>Is there any scene in any gundam title that give emphasis on this phenomenon.

No there isn't. In fact most mecha shows imply just the opposite in that the limited hands-on controls aren't enough to control all the movements and functions of the mech which implies that there is a very powerful computer doing most of the heavy lifting. At most the pilots just point the mech in the right direction not unlike a horseback rider in that the rider doesn't fully control the animal, but the horse has a pretty good idea of what the rider wants it to do and executes accordingly.

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>>15853640
>how do you write a way to defeat them?
Like I said in the OP, gundam pilots have powers because they've evolved. See pic. That's why humans are used instead of AI.

I wasnt really expecting Gundam G and Wing to have those plot device, because I dont remember the pilots having time-space abilities. I just use the pic in the OP because its funny.

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>>15853691
>Implying Amuro wins only because he has the best hardware and software, not because of his talent and Newtypeness.

>>15853709
>Like I said in the OP, gundam pilots have powers because they've evolved. See pic. That's why humans are used instead of AI.
Oh, I see what you're getting at.

Well, they never really deploy any AI units in considerable numbers in the same universes where newtypes exist, unfortunately. It's not because newtypes were competing with drones and AI, though. Newtype pilots were never really available in large numbers to begin with, so it can't be said they made AI obsolete or unnecessary. The OYW is the largest conflict in UC, yet there's only supposed to be a couple of ace newtype pilots here and there. There were definitely enough manpower shortages and loss of skilled pilots (on Zeon's side anyway) that developing combat AI would have been at least somewhat useful, but minovsky jamming makes it dangerous to deploy anything other than a fully developed AI because once it's out the door, there's not really any practical way of communicating with it. It would have to be trustworthy to deploy in live combat. Yet a learning AI can't develop without experience.

The closest they got to that was with ALICE from Gundam Sentinel, but the only unit was lost in battle after it sacrificed itself.

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>>15853735 continued
>Some Gundam pilots are chosen to be gundam pilots because they've evolved to be really good at calculating trajectories in real time.
This just isn't true. If you've seen any of the Gundam stories, then you might have realized that most of the newtype Gundam pilots just happened to have literally gotten into the cockpit by accident or at least were not actually assigned to a Gundam, and then they decided to let them keep piloting it because they happened to have the most experience and were able to handle it well. Amuro, Kamille, Judau, Seabook, and Uso all "accidentally happened to be there are the right time" and were later kept as Gundam pilots for those reasons, but didn't display any strong newtype abilities until much later in the show. Before and even after getting in the pilot seat, they weren't tested for newtype abilities.

The trained military pilots in the UC stories that did get assigned to Gundams (Shiro, Kou, Christina, etc) were usually not newtypes. The only exceptions that I can think of were Four Murasame and Rosamia Badam and their respective Psyco Gundams, which were psycommu-equipped machines that required newtype pilots to reach their full potential.

>Is there any scene in any gundam title that give emphasis on this phenomenon. Like a gundam pilot beats a horde of AI units, and some side character in the background saying, "Oh! So, this must be the capability of an evolved pilot."? Because I don't remember anything like that happening.
Never happens because newtypes never get to battle with AI units in the first place. The closest would be a scene from the 5th volume of Gundam Thunderbolt. Daryl, a protagonist, is being chased by a squad of enemies in a situation where the odds are heavily stacked against him. One of his allies is an asshole who wants to see Daryl display some of his supposed newtype abilities, so he stays hidden and watches the battle to see how Daryl handles it.

>>15853727
He read the manual.

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>>15853735
Plot Hole: A civilization that can build space colonies, didn't use any kind of search and destroy AI's in the war.

Or maybe there was something else behind this. Maybe the war was an inside job, to kill the weak men and let the superior gene prevail. Maybe it was all a planned to help humans successfully leave the solar system.

>>15853753
>accidentally happened to be there are the right time
Inside job see>>15853777 (You)

>Never happens because newtypes never get to battle with AI units in the first place
Would be nice if this happen, because I still think AI can out perform humans, and this scene is the only way to justify human pilots.

>>15853787
>Inside job see>>15853777
Because as we all know, Amuro, Kamille, Judau and etc were secretly scouted by the Federation

>>15853787
Wow. I delete this post, edit it, then post it again.
It gave me a second (You).

Oh no. Now people will think I'm same fagging.

>>15853640

> When you have a dramatic story that involves AI being the enemy, there's only so many ways to make it possible for them to be defeated. If they didn't have any flaws and were objectively superior, then how do you write a way to defeat them?

You don't, you do what Wing flirted with through Trieze but never committed to and point out that AI is limited in it's ability to interact with and understand the world and so has limited use. It's unbeatable in that area, but it's usefulness is limited because it can't adapt or understand without positing some really advanced AI; AI that is functionally identical to natural or human intelligence in it's capability to understand and interpret.

You could also have the AI compromised by hacking, to make it unreliable as a system or have pilots with AI assistance defeating purely AI system. AI could be used to randomize (as much as AI can actually be random) fine movement to within a certain degree while the pilot only dictates direction so as to make the exact position difficult for another AI to estimate or do what Macross does and have the VF-1 AI calculate trajectories for missiles (or other projectiles) and do tracking and aiming based on pilot priority through eye tracking or whatever.

Not that I think the usual method of just acting like AI is less capable than humans is necessarily bad in shows with the right tone, but if you want to actually tackle AI as a subject matter the best way is to just show their limits rather than have them straight up defeated in a contrived manner.

>>15853727
Having superpowers and the best hardware are not mutually exclusive, dummy.

>>15853727
It's made pretty clear that until like halfway through the series Amuro was being carried hard by the Gundam. It gave him time to realize that he was the greatest pilot of all time, but the superior hardware was important to get him there.

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>>15853146
Figured it out. F91 has beergay amazed that cecily and seabook can take out the bug ai's, and iron mask does some darth vader shit with his newtype powers.

>>15853640
>how do you write a way to defeat them?

I was thinking of writing a plot with Nukes and Advance AI involved, but then again, Earth and the colonies are both rich. I can't see how they'd end up killing each other instead of just talking about their differences in national television.

Posted this issue in another thread >>15856440

The thing about Gundam is that the mobile suits actually have a pretty huge amount of automation to begin with.

The AMBACs system is governed by an AI. With the early Zeon suits, it was developed in the lab and is fixed, the algorithm can't improve itself in the field. With the gundam, it can, the computer in the core fighter is capable of improving its neuron pattern (thus, learning). This is why the gundam was provided with a core fighter in the first place, to protect the neuron data that was being collected (pilots are replaceable, combat data is not).

Why did they do this? Well, because the feds were starting at a disadvantage. The Zeons had been testing mobile workers in the lab fighting each other for years (hell, Ramba Ral and the black tri-stars were involved in this). They had been able to develop the neuron system to control a giant robot in combat and perfect that system.

The feds needed to develop something similar but they didn't have a lot of time, so they built their prototypes able to improve their fighting neuron data in the field. But for this to work they'd need to ensure that the data from the field got back to them. Hence, the core fighter.

Basically, the design motto was "git gud".

>>15856523
That make sense. So this guy >>15853691
was right, the Gundam do all of the fighting. But what about the Newtype plot device, how does it impact the gundam if the pilot just "point the mech to the right direction."?