So Late UC mobile suits are supposed to be thinly armored because

>>15821226
Seems that way. Also, it means that even vulcans can potentially fuck up a late UC Mobile Suit if they don't have a beam shield active.

No because they aren't mechs so they automatically suck and are slow, weak, and outdated.

>>15821234
In cca vulcans blew through a suit, shield and all.

>>15821226
Tanks were always better than mobile suits given UC's tech. The same tech that makes mobile suits possible could have just been used to make rocket tanks that would be cheaper, could move further and would be faster.

What I find it odd is why fans look at the armored bikes, wheeled battleships and multiarmed, multi pilot space worker drones in Victory and think that they are unrealistic compared to mobile suits and floating ships anyway.

>>15821226
No, tanks would still be shit.
>Beam shields
>Longer flight times or even self sustained flight
>Tanks still destroyed by conventional weapons or one shot by a beam
>Irrelevant in space

>>15821258
Tanks are the tankettes of the Gundam universe.

>>15821235

This. Get your shit together OP.

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>>15821269
Tanks would probably still be dead as a concept for the same reasons mobile suits shed their armor, but something more like pic related? Something lighter and faster, but still capable of leveraging the advantages of lower cost and smaller size than a mobile suit while still able to damage mobile suits?

>>15821528
Something something art imitate life

>>15821528
Late UC is incredibly mobile when it comes to combat, I'm not suggesting they'll literally dodge bullets but no conventional vehicle will be able to keep pace with a late UC MS.

>>15821628
No one's asking to have a tanks fight a mobile suit head on. We don't have duels in war either. No idiot commander should order a tank platoon to chase a bunch of flying mobile suits any more than they would have them chase fighter jets.

If tanks are forced to take on (flight capable) mobile suits, then they're gonna be used properly. That means set up to ambush and fire from a hidden position, because there's not really many other ways to effectively take on MS.

>>15821887
What competent commander would use tanks to ambush a jet?

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>>15822039
well...

If armour is mostly useless why not replace tanks with lightly armoured vehicles with big guns? A humvee would also have better visibly than something that just thick metal on all sides, which might help compensate for minovsky interference

>>15821226
>So Late UC mobile suits are supposed to be thinly armored

It doesn't make any sense why mobile suits are considered well armored at any time, ever. They're pretty much the same tonnage as main battle tanks, BUT instead of concentrating their armor into a few compact zones, it's spread out all over an 18 meter tall humanoid body. Compared to tanks, mobile suits are lightly armored everywhere.

You can't handwave it away by saying the suits have advanced armor that gives them superior protection at a fraction of the armor thickness, because most of them have bog standard armor.

>>15822066
you're still facing small arms fire and explosive weaponry, so you still need armor, even if it's useless against beam weaponry. we have the tech to pen any armor already, and still they don't abandon it completely.

>>15822073
>They're pretty much the same tonnage as main battle tanks,
they also have the power output of a main battle tank, the numbers don't make sense and shouldn't be trusted.

A Zaku at 18m would have to weigh in at about 150-200 metric tons, with a Gundam being at around 120t minimum. And their reactors having the output of an aircraft carrier

>>15822059
UC Mobile suits squelch radar by being active, which is why non wire ground to air missiles have problems. And good luck hitting a late UC mobile suit with a fly by wire missile since they are constantly buzzing around rarely landing when they fight

>>15822089
I was more answering to the "which commander would use tanks to ambush a jet" and there are "tanks" suited to ambush jets.

Also Minovsky doesn't affect heat seeking missiles.

>>15821269

I'm assuming a future UC tank equivalent would be more mobile than a contemporary tank, using a VSBR instead of a shell firing cannon. The battle bikes in Victory or Einerads seems like a good basis, though giving them the capability to target over the kind of distance the mega particle cannon Katejina's Gottrlatan could dock with would probably help too. They'd also presumably benefit from beam shielding themselves, if not a I-field to help offset the weight of standard armor sacrificed for mobility.

>>15821236
30mm is no laughing matter.

>>15822110
as opposed to 75mm gatlings?

>guyse, radar doesn't work, but newtypes do
>they can also control shitton of guns at the same time

So they build a handful of MAs rather than to upgrade their existing fleet of battleships for newtype fire control ASAP...

>>15821528
Macross tried this though, and they were total fucking shit.

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>>15822160
>Gundam
>Using Newtypes as your primary military might

>>15822107
Yeah, but to fit even the smaller ms reactors inside you would have to make a larger tank, and vsbrs aren't exactly tiny either. Even those bikes in victory were pretty big.

>>15822107
Where is it going to get the power to use the VSBR, those things have to be directly powered by a reactor.

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Victory had these, which are really just high mobility tanks. In late UC, MS had limited flight capabilities anyways so a tank's effectiveness against MS was questionable.

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>>15822819
A smaller lighter version

>>15822120
a 75mm rotary gun with a barrel short enough to fit in the head of a mobile suit would probably suck enormous shit.

>>15822969
None have a 75mm internally mounted vulcan, the most common size is 60mm internally, or externally, and 30mm external pods.

>>15822165
But those were only for island defense. Probably best used against rebels and terrorists; Destroids were way more plentiful.

>>15822089
The reactors don't spread particles just by being active, even the amount from beam weapons is far too low to actually do anything.
The warships are the ones that intentionally spread particles, presumably they siphon some from the reactors over time into some storage area to be released in battle.

>>15822969
well, GMs have 60mm in their head, not do much difference.

>>15821226
they use TOWs vs mobile suits in Victory

>>15823242
I believe they were also briefly shown being using in first gundam

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>>15822110
I want whatever 30mm shells you are using.

>>15822183

I fail to see why it couldn't fit the same reactor suits in Victory use. The Victor's core fighter is just over 8 meters long, and 3/4s of its length is either cockpit or head/sensors, meaning the reactor probably only takes up a meter or two of space inside it. Sure, non Victory class units will have a slightly larger and less powerful reactor, but it seems feasible to fit a mobile suit Minovsky reactor inside a non-human form and have a reasonable amount of room for sensors, weapons and crew given the general dimensions of contemporary mobile suits.

>>15822165
Those IFV's were going up against Vajra, which even top of the line VF's like the VF-25 were having trouble with taking down.

>>15823741
I think it's because they need generators too. The core fighter has the reactor but the body has the generators that let it draw power off the heat from the reactors. Or at least that was the explanation for some of the workings of the rx-78

>>15823840

Even then the chest of a Victory era mobile suit is probably less than 7 meters tall and has to fit in a cockpit and thrusters as well as weapons and a transformation system in some cases. There's no way the reactor and generator takes up more than a couple of meters of space in all that.

>>15823840
Aren't those sub-generators for extra efficiency?

>>15823916
I'm not saying they couldn't be put in other vehicles, just that the corefighter doesn't have all the parts. Doesn't really matter though because gundam will never allow non mechs to have cool things.

>>15823933
Supposedly yes

>>15821236
vulcans arent just for show?!

>>15824162

Oh it'd never be in an actual show, but it's still fun to think about how a tank would evolve for relevance in Gundam. Faster, lighter, more maneuverable ground units with beam shields and VSBRs capable of continuous beam fire for several seconds so they could arc around to hit targets would be cool.

>>15822107
>>15822183
For what it's worth, the Galicson seems to have been the only bike armed with a beam weapon. Judging from their muzzles, the Kous and Ohtus are using autocannons.

>>15822107
>>15824234
That cannon was about the size of the Gottrlatan. No way something with a turreted mega particle cannon (VSBRs seem to be expensive niche weapons issued to limited production MSes, not something produced on grunt MS scales) would get that range. And where would the beam shield be mounted to get effective coverage, preferably without blocking the cannon and needing to be turned off for the tank to fire?

It occurs to me that the things we're describing have more in common with SPAAGs than with traditional tanks (light armor, can shoot at high angles, not necessarily tracked). Self-propelled, anti-mobile suit? SPAAMS?

>>15824657
*SPAMS

>>15824234
Probably they would wind up using the same movement technology that doms use to rollerskate around, with a reactor and a bunch of thrusters for quick maneuvering and limited flight, and a turreted beam gun with a coaxial vulcan.

Something small, fast, and mean.

>>15821258
You can't send tanks in space, and you're right that tanks were used for the majority of ground engagements.