What separates a "modern" mecha from an "old-school"

>>15786605
Design choices, mainly. One of the best examples I can think of as a more modern design choice are the fin legs/feet you see on things like Orbital Frames, Arc Gurren Lagann, and Linebarrel.

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>>15786605
Assuming you're not talking about Super Robots:

Old school: Clunky and simple but still looks functional
Modern: Cluttered shit that tries to look more realistic but has the opposite effect

Your pic is a perfect example of everything wrong with modern robots

>>15786628
Why the exception for Supers?

>>15786605
In the case of anime old mecha were very simple.
This is because animation was harder back then so if a design had too many lines it would be harder to animate.
Over the years designs started to progress and look more advanced.
At first it started with the addition of inner frames.
Then you start to see more technical details like cooling fins, panels, radiators and antennas pop up around the late 80s andthroughout the 90s.
Around this time silhouettes start changing a lot too.
If you just look at the difference between zeta and 0079 you can see that more clearly.
From the 90s to 2000s things get even crazier and you have people experimenting with biomechanical design, designing mecha with more obvious motifs like escaflowne's knight themed mecha, and The complete abandonment of traditional mecha design.
Personally it's one of my favorite periods because of this.
In the late 2000s to 2010s there was a resurgence in traditional mecha design and a few shows started leaning that way.
(I have a hunch that gurren laggann was responsible for this)
But alongside this development you have the rise of cg in anime which meant people could go crazy with mecha design and at this point line limitations become non-existent.
So we end up with stuff like the valvraves, aquarions, the thing from comet lucifer and the Gundam Evolve shorts.

>>15786967
This is quite a shitty post.

>>15786605
Quality.

>>15786976
You're right.
Old anime good, new anime bad.
Is that better?

>>15787157
No. Kill yourself.

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>>15786628
>you're not talking about Super Robots

What makes them any different?

>Old school: Clunky and simple but still looks functional

You wanna double check?

>>15786976
What's your explanation then?

>>15786605
Nothing, faggots here just want to schreech

>>15787754
One that isn't retarded.

>>15787962
Nice job being objectively wrong.

>>15787706
You know, for something that's meant to be complicated or alien, this design flows well.

>>15786605
I don't know who would be dumb enough to pick left over right.

>>15787991
>ATMOS
>alien
It's an easy mistake to make, but that's not a Zentradi armor. That was built by Anaheim Electronics for the Earth Federation.

>>15787991
>>15788037
>suped up heavygun in armor
>alien
baka senpai

Boxier, simpler look vs sleeker, more detailed (for better or worse) look. Of course that's an extreme generalization.

>>15787969
>Nice job being objectively wrong.
Prove me wrong then, show me what separates old mecha from new mecha, if you can't then crawl back to your hole /v/erming

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>>15786605
Heels .... I guess ...

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>>15786628
Who would win between the R.H.I.N.O. power suit and the AMP suit from Avatar?

>>15786628
>Your pic is a perfect example of everything wrong with modern robots
lol

>>15786605

Regularly drawing them with the joints a different color than the rest of the body and/or making them a distinctly separate looking part.

>>15786605
>old school
Influenced by Mazinger and 70s super robots

>modern
Influenced by Evangelion

>post-modern
draws inspiration from both

>>15788435
>Influenced by Evangelion

What the fuck?

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You can't get away with just sticking some simple shapes together anymore

>>15788362
Extremely different designs, /v/ermin.

>>15788428
?

>>15788435
>Influenced by Evangelion
Stay delusional.

I had a discussion with a friend about this, and we concluded that overall, the modern design is thinner than the old designs. Spindly limbs and plating over thin frame are more prevalent today.

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>>15788520
>Spindly limbs and plating over thin frame are more prevalent today.

That's been pretty prevalent since L-Gaim came out in the mid-80s, being the originator of that idea and proportion set. Hardly a new development.

I would argue that the style of Ebikawa and Katoki is pretty much everywhere nowadays, though I wouldn't call that a new development so much as these two getting a lot of work.

>>15788463
>Extremely different designs, /v/ermin.
Such as?

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>>15788463
op's pic is from a manga from 1986

>>15788435
>Influenced by Evangelion
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>15788435
I haven't seen many anime or mecha in general take inspiration from Evangelion.
And those I have were pretty far between.
If I were to name a designer from that time period who was influential, or at least has more designers taking ques from him it would have to be either Nagano, or Okawara.

>>15788528
Stuff like L-gaim was ahead of its time though.
The 80s and 90s saw a lot of more bulky mecha, even Nagano's older stuff sometimes tends to look way thicker than his modern designs.

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>>15788538
Not him, but the one on the right was a redesign from the late 90s.

His actual point is pretty dumb, but that's just my opinion.

People still make "old" designs. Highly mechanically detailed robot designs are a sub-genre. Both styles coexist and cross over, each one has evolved over time.

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>>15788561
>If I were to name a designer from that time period who was influential, or at least has more designers taking ques from him it would have to be either Nagano, or Okawara.

In Japan, Okawara, Nagano, and Miyatake are generally considered the fathers of mecha design from the 80s onward. Pretty much every known designer can be traced back to at least one of these three.

I'd go as far as to say Miyatake might have actually been the most influential designer of them all. Kobayashi claims that it's Nagano on his Twitter, but I disagree.

>>15788606
Is that supposed to be an example of a modern mecha design? Because it's most definitely not.

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>>15788712
>Is that supposed to be an example of a modern mecha design?

Influential =/= modern

Miyatake's designs are very, very influential. The dude revolutionized power armor and walking military vehicle designs, not to mention the organic layered and muscular look that would be prominent in almost every biomech made in the future. That's not even including his work on spaceship and architecture design. Izubuchi, Kawamori, Shirow, Aramaki, Ohata, Kobayashi, Yokoyama and the entire western hemisphere owe their entire design careers to him.

>>15788731
What the fuck are you sperging about? I asked you if you thought that was an example of a modern mecha design. Why are you talking about something completely different. Chill out.

>>15786605
>What separates a "modern" mecha from an "old-school" one?
The year 1996.

>>15788740
>I asked you if you thought that was an example of a modern mecha design.

It was drawn in the early 80s. It's obviously not modern. If that was the extent of your question, you're an idiot.

My explanation was on how his designs are still relevant despite their age, thus his influence.

>Why are you talking about something completely different. Chill out.

And people wonder why /m/ seems to be getting dumber every day.

>>15788748
People ITT aren't talking exclusively about whether or not something is contemporary, you blithering moron. Modern in this case obviously refers to the trend of mecha design following the Gundam boom. Don't be a fucktard. I don't give a fuck about your basic bitch explanations and it had nothing to do with my post, so fuck yourself.

>>15788758
>Modern in this case obviously refers to the trend of mecha design following the Gundam boom.

Said nobody in this thread.

And if you knew anything about mecha design, you would know both the mechs in the OP came well after MSG aired. The OP was talking about what design traits separated the two mecha- one from the 80s and the other from the 90s/2000's.

>Don't be a fucktard. I don't give a fuck about your basic bitch explanations and it had nothing to do with my post, so fuck yourself.

That's a lot of words just to admit that you're a fucking moron.

>>15788767
>you would know both the mechs in the OP came well after MSG aired.
Thanks for continually ousting yourself as a moron.

>>15788758
>Modern in this case obviously refers to the trend of mecha design following the Gundam boom.

I also love how you contradict yourself with your own argument. >>15788712

If you aren't baiting, then I'm (not) sorry to say that you're just stupid beyond salvation.

>>15788770
MSG aired in 1979. LED Mirage I came in 1986. LED Mirage III came in 1999 or 2000.

Do you have anything better to do now than to publicly express your butthurt and idiocy?

>>15788772
You can't read. I wrote
>trend of mecha design following the Gundam boom
>following the Gundam boom
As in, after. I never contradicted myself and your arguments against my posts never made any sense simply because you are incapable of reading. Congratulations. You're retarded.

>>15788783
You're the idiot who claimed that Dunbine was not a modern design, then stated that anything that came after MSG was a modern design, and Dunbine came out many years after MSG.

Make up your mind, shit-for-brains.

>>15788785
>then stated that anything that came after MSG was a modern design
I never said that, little moron. In fact, I explicitly stated that modern refers to a stylistic trend of mechanical design. Wow! You still can't read! Go get a primary school education, third worlder.

>>15788789
>I never said that, little moron.

But you did.

>I explicitly stated that modern refers to a stylistic trend of mechanical design.

Wrong.

Your words: >>15788758

>Modern in this case obviously refers to the trend of mecha design following the Gundam boom.

This is the weakest attempt at shitposting I've seen in a while. Are you just practicing your reddit-tier buzzwords for show?

>>15788796
Again, you cannot read. I suggest you go the ESL help department at your school. Fuck yourself, but don't bother anyone else when you do.

>>15788806
>I am extremely butthurt and want the last word

Thanks for telling us all we needed to know about you, anon. I'll leave you in peace.

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>neo-/m/ doesn't know how Eva designs are influential

>>15788854
wow such eva

>>15788910
I think he meant that as something that was influenced by Eva

>>15788528
>I would argue that the style of Ebikawa and Katoki is pretty much everywhere nowadays, though I wouldn't call that a new development so much as these two getting a lot of work.

Yanase has been more prolific than both. From Frame Arms to Xenoblade.

>>15788854
They weren't actually.

>>15789099
lmao how the fuck does that change anything about my post???

>>15786605
tubes vs clusterfucks

>>15788854
It's not so much that they don't know, it's that they're autistic contrarians who cover their ears and go "lalala can't hear you!" /m/ has always had a hateboner for Eva, so this shouldn't surprise you.

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>>15790323
>they're autistic contrarians who cover their ears and go "lalala can't hear you!"

Or they're just familiar with the history of mecha, unlike the majority of Evatards who seem to insist that every mecha design that came out after the show aired was inspired by it.

>/m/ has always had a hateboner for Eva

Give up with the persecution complex already. Most people here like Eva just fine, but when some idiot fanboy like you comes along insisting that Eva revolutionized everything that came out of Japan afterwards with zero evidence, you better expect them to call you out on your stupidity.

By the way, Nirvash was a Kawamori design- the race-car like shapes on and proportions on it are usual of his designs well before Eva even aired. And organic mecha existed long before Eva.

>>15790355
Those proportions look nithing like the Nirvash.

>>15786605
Pointy feet.

>>15790355
>Give up with the persecution complex already. Most people here like Eva just fine

I mean there are people who like it here for sure, but there are always certain people that come in whenever somebody says something mentions anything positive about Eva. Could be a few dedicated people who hate it, or it's actually heavily disliked.

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>>15790407
Proportion is more than just being skinny or not.

Anyway, Nirvash's silhouette is pretty common among Kawamori designs.

>>15790449
>Could be a few dedicated people who hate it, or it's actually heavily disliked.

It's neither- Eva doesn't get anymore hate on here than anything else posted here like Gundam or Getter. Stop acting like a victim. The only times I've seen Eva discussions get really heated is when some idiot claims that it influenced everything that came after in every single way.

>>15790462
I don't really care what /m/ thinks, I'm just saying what I've seen on the board. Also Gundam has the luxury of having a lot of shows, some loved and some hated. I do agree that Getter gets a good amount of hate on here at times, if you like it you're a Pedro and ANN.

I've seen a lot of "Eva has done literally nothing new or innovative, it changed absolutely nothing in the industry and it didn't influence anything, if you think that go back to Evageeks". I just feel that the people who dislike it are more 'extreme' about it.

The Eva whining is sad. They don't want to admit it, but Eva fanboys do the same thing as TTGL whiners.
>waah we're persecuted
>waah everyone denies our ridiculous claims about eva's influence on the genre
>waah it's not because we're wrong, they're just mean contrarians
You're newfags and you are being corrected by others who actually know the genre. Lurk more, post less.

>>15788435
I can't think of any other show that has robots that are anything like Evangelion. Which is a shame since I like their designs. I also like the biological aspect of them.

>>15788606
>Kobayashi claims that it's Nagano on his Twitter
That's weird, I never saw his work as influenced by Nagano's.
At least not directly, I wonder if nagano influenced him in a "wow this guy's making mecha that don't even look like mecha" kind of sense.

>>15788854
Eva designs were influential for a while, but that influence ended around the time E7 was released.
In terms of outward aesthetic a lot of contemporary designs are really just completely doing their own thing, that's not to say Eva wasn't influential though.

>>15790407
Not him but almost all Kawamori designs have a squashed torso with a triangular shape and long legs.
Everything he's done from Armored Core to Aquarion, Macross and M3 have this.
If his Nirvash design was influenced by Eva it was probably the organic stuff.

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>>15790355
>Or they're just familiar with the history of mecha, unlike the majority of Evatards who seem to insist that every mecha design that came out after the show aired was inspired by it.

I still remember Eva morons going on for years about how everything in Brain Powerd was a knockoff of Eva, including the Antibody designs, because they had no idea thin and organic mecha existed long before Eva and had never watched a single Tomino show.

>>15790832
Aren't these by Nagano?

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>>15790853
Yes

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>>15790832
Brain Powerd deserves some sort of remake.

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>hurr durr you have to be the first to do something for it to be influential

By that logic Star Wars was never influential because everything about it was derivative.

Anyone who says the designs that came out after Eva weren't inspired by them is just a contrarian.

>>15790640
Eva was the most influential anime of all time after the original Gundam. If you deny its influence you would be laughed out of every anime convention.

>>15790906
>anime convention.
to be fair those are full of casuals who's most in depth knowledge of anime is toonami

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>>15790906
>Eva was the most influential anime of all time after the original Gundam

>>15790806
>Armored Core
>Aquarion
>M3

All of those are post-Evangelion.

>>15790906
>Eva was the most influential anime of all time after the original Gundam. If you deny its influence you would be laughed out of every anime convention.
Eva was a one hit wonder that rode a starting trend of moe and waifus during the time period.

>>15790906
You might have an argument if you were talking about in the mecha genre but there's no way in hell that Eva is more influential than something like Dragon Ball and probably a good deal of other series both in shonen and in anime/manga overall.

I'm probably one of the few people in this argument that genuinely loves Eva but (unfortunately) I do think its influence is pretty overstated.

>>15786967
that sounds spot on. I like newer designs, old designs seemed like box robots wearing diapers. they just where not objectively good due to budget and design limitation, we have a lot more creative materials and quality thanks to in large part, CGI.

>>15788037
first thought i had was zentradi as well
PS, everyones arguements against new stuff seems to be nothing but insults and "kill urself faggit". do people not actually defend their asthetic opinions or has this channel really fully devolved to /m/anchildren tossing petty insults instead of actually debating?

>>15790355
>And organic mecha existed long before Eva.
Guyver is generally given a pass as being /m/ and that got going in the mid to late 80s.

>>15791101
>what is Dunbine

And I don't even think that was the first.

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>>15791101
>>15791165
Skull Killer Jakio, where the mecha has the soul of the MC's dog or something and the MC enters a womb-like eyeball to pilot it or something.

>>15791009
His pre Eva-stuff features the same design traits as well.(Macross,Patlabor,Escaflowne, 0083)
Kawamori has been extremely consistent with his deisgn style over the years.
The only thing that's really changed is the level of transformation complexity due to the use of cgi in anime.

>>15791251
>Skull Killer Jakio

Why do obtuse Getterfags keep bringing up this obscure piece of shit in every Eva discussion? Jakio isn't neither organic nor did it invent the idea of robots having souls.

>>15791380
It's obscure now here in the states to a generation of millennial white kids, not to Japanese kids and teens and young adults when Ishikawa was writing manga.

>>15791251
You do know both Guyver and Dunbine came out years before that, right?

>>15791165
Technically, if you want to get super-specific, the original Talos myth had him be a bronze automaton created by either Hephaestus or Daedalus, however, he's describe as having organic components like veins and blood, and he's also able to get drunk.

>>15791384
>It's obscure now here in the states to a generation of millennial white kids

It was first published in 1990 you stupid fuck. It had only two volumes and was never popular enough to receive any adaptations or spin-offs. Only the most hardcore Ishikawafags even know it exists.

That aside, in the long context of things, it's fucking nothing. Shit doesn't even have its own Japanese Wikipedia page.

>>15791408
>was never popular enough to receive any adaptations or spin-offs
Not that guy, but this is a stupid point because there are hundreds of very successful manga that never get anime series. Getting an anime is not a binary indication of success, especially since anime adaptation are almost exclusively aimed at children and teenagers which leaves out the very large manga market of young adults. Not saying Jakioh was a successful series, but just in general your point is fucking stupid.

>>15791430
>this is a stupid point because there are hundreds of very successful manga that never get anime series.

They get merchandise, promotions, republications, online fansites and fanart- the works. Jakioh received none of that shit. And it came out in 1990, right when the internet was starting to take off. Where are the fansites? Where are the pages of people devoted to talking about it? They never existed. To most people it was just another lesser and forgotten Ishikawa project. Even on Amazon jp it has a total of only 2 or 3 reviews. It's obscure as shit and only the most delusional Ishikawafag would say otherwise.

>>15791470
>They get merchandise, promotions, republications, online fansites and fanart- the works
Republications, yes. The other stuff? Not always. Anyway, Jakioh has fanart and fansites. It's also been republished multiple times.
>Where are the fansites?
https://www49.atwiki.jp/aniwotawiki/pages/2439.html
http://www4.atpages.jp/tenmadetobe/D-jakio.htm
http://www.geocities.co.jp/HeartLand-Sakura/9617/tukiho/jakio.htm
http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~WX5H-KTB/kenfo/robo.html
>fanart
https://www.pixiv.net/search.php?s_mode=s_tag&word=スカルキラー邪鬼王
>Where are the pages of people devoted to talking about it?
http://changi.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/eva/1218804180/

Anyway, you made another absolutely retarded post because I didn't even say Jakioh was popular. Not only are you wrong, you're replying to the wrong person. Holy shit, you dunce!

>>15791532
>Republications, yes. The other stuff? Not always.

Jakioh didn't even receive republications. Even by your own admission and bullshit criteria, it's fucking nothing.

>fansites

Those are not sites dedicated to it- they're short descriptions in much larger database sites.

>fanart

Wow, 11 pictures, 5 of which are drawn by the same person. How distinguished!

>http://changi.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/eva/1218804180/

That's an Eva thread talking about multiple different manga as potential influences for it and was created almost ten years ago, with Jakio being namedropped in the OP. Far from what can be considered a fan discussion.

>Anyway, you made another absolutely retarded post because I didn't even say Jakioh was popular.

I don't know why you're replying to me then. I'm glad we both agree that Jakioh was literally forgettable garbage that nobody but a handul of mentally stunted Ishikawafags care for!

>>15791590
>Jakioh didn't even receive republications.
It did, though. There's the magazine publication, the Shonen Captain Comics tank, Action Comics tank reprint, the digital version, the Action Comics Kyomu Senki edition and the Futabasha Kyomu Senki edition.
>fansites
>fanart
Keep moving goalposts, shitter. You got BTFO.
>I don't know why you're replying to me then
Try reading the post, maybe? You fucking retard.

>>15791644
>There's the magazine publication, the Shonen Captain Comics tank, Action Comics tank reprint, the digital version, the Action Comics Kyomu Senki edition and the Futabasha Kyomu Senki edition.

Great. Link them. Because the only one that can be found online is the original publication sold on Amazon from third party sellers. I doubt you even have complete scans.

>Keep moving goalposts, shitter.

But you provided no fansites, almost no fanart, and no actual fan discussions? How is this helping you in looking like less of a moron?

>Try reading the post, maybe?

I read your post and all I see is a butthurt Ishikawafag looking for validation on his obscure and forgotten manga and running out of arguments to back up its relevance, which it had none of to begin with.

This is pathetic. You're even more embarrassing than the Evafags.

>>15791673
Google it, dumbass. This isn't /r/.

>>15791709
>Google my non-existent proof for me

Why would I want to do that? Even you couldn't do it.

>>15791717
You're an exceedingly pathetic little piece of shit. You're so caught up in trying to save face on the internet that you're making arguments based on the fallacy of denying evidence that destroys your wild claims despite me already giving you the exact label reprints that you could have easily google yourself. Grow up.
http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~WX5H-KTB/kenfo/robo.html#anchor1153722

>>15791746
So it was republished once as an independent work only because Ishikawa didn't care enough to add it to the larger tankouban due to legal circumstances? Thanks for shooting down your own argument yet again.

>You're an exceedingly pathetic little piece of shit.

Cry harder, fanboy. Even Ishikawa gave less of a shit about this than you.

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>>15790734

>>15790832
Wasn't Brain Powerd Tomino's response to Evangelion?
I remember an interview were he ranted about how he didn't like EVA
because It send the message to the audience that we are all mentally ill and at the border of mental breakdown, and he said that anime should try to give viewers encouragment to try to live happy?

>>15793227
That looks cool. Thanks.

>>15793242
This sound like Tomino so I'm going to believe you.

I don't think BP was intended as an answer though, it look like the kind of show Tomino'd like to do either way

>>15793242
>Wasn't Brain Powerd Tomino's response to Evangelion?

Nope.

>Tomino: For instance, Brain Powered came out after Evangelion did, so I am often asked questions similar to yours about the connection between them, but in reality the plans for Brain Powered and the overall story had all been completed before Evangelion came out. I never meant Brain Powered to be an antithesis to Evangelion. I knew when I saw Evangelion that Brain Powered would be called an antithesis to it, but I didn't want to change my plans any, so I just resigned myself to that.

https://wiki.evageeks.org/Similarities_to_Neon_Genesis_Evangelion_in_other_Anime_and_Manga#Brain_Powered_.28.E3.83.96.E3.83.AC.E3.83.B3.E3.83.91.E3.83.AF.E3.83.BC.E3.83.89.29

>>15793390
A ok
thanks for correcting me anon.

>>15793227
i just started this, its neat. reminds me a lot of eva but more "cartoony"

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>>15788427
Is this for real? How does it even support the weight of the arm, let alone doing anything?

The real difference between newer mecha and older mecha is the ratio between curves and straight lines, and the gaps inbetween.

>>15797012
>and the gaps inbetween.

This basically. I would say L-Gaim is like one of the first old school mecha on the path to modern designs.

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>>15796592
Nice try, but the shoulder slides on the rails

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>>15786605

>>15797527
>ver_ka_ treatment.jpg