Why are mecha cockpits so much cleaner than IRL cockpits? Surely

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>>15737201
It's considered bad form to burn through an animator's wrists on a single show.

Also, some are pretty similarly complex.

>>15737201
If you can bullshit a giant robot into being possible, making a simple cockpit shouldn't be an issue or matter.

>>15737201
It's the future and everything has been made as optimally intuitive as possible. This is why even a child like Char, or a teen that has studied the manual a little, can pilot an MS where in a modern day IRL fighter they would crash and die instantly on takeoff.

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>>15737201

Because it heightens the theme of "This cockpit will be your coffin"

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>>15737201
They're not?

Mech shows tend to take place in settings with advanced technology of some stripe, so it follows that their cockpits would look more like this than like that.

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One of the big complaints about the F-35 is the lack of instant control pilots have by the forcing of indicators and switches into the digital screens, meaning you have to cycle through to them rather than just reaching for the specific switch/indicator.

Either way, I doubt we'll ever reach the point where two balls is all you need, like Gundam shows.

>>15737231

meant for >>15737219

>>15737231
Speaking as a photographer with similar concerns: discrete manual dials > digital menu diving

Watching some of the earlier mecha shows, the cockpits do look almost insultingly simple, but they got a lot better since then.

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>>15737219

Always wondered why the F-22 cockpit never got a block upgrade to make it cleaner like the F-35

>>15737256
Because that would require a lot of code fuckery, you do know the bulk of the 22 codebase is written in ADA, right?

Besides, it's nowhere near the flying computer network the 35 is designed to be.

>>15737507
>The Air Force is accelerating development of a special, high-tech, on-board threat library for the F-35 designed to precisely identify enemy aircraft operating in different high-risk areas around the globe - such as a Chinese J-20 stealth fighter or Russian T-50 PAK FA 5th Gen fighter, service leaders said.

>Described as the brains of the airplane, the "mission data files" are extensive on-board data systems compiling information on geography, air space and potential threats in areas where the F-35 might be expected to perform combat operations, Air Force officials explained.

>"Mission data files are the key that unlocks the F-35," Brig. Gen. Scott Pleus, Director of the F-35 Integration Office said.

>Consisting of hardware and software, the mission data files are essentially a database of known threats and friendly aircraft in specific parts of the world. The files are being worked on at a reprogramming laboratory at Eglin Air Force Base, Fla., Air Force officials said. The mission data files are designed to work with the aircraft's Radar Warning Receiver engineered to find and identify approaching enemy threats and incoming hostile fire.

LEARNING COMPUTER SOON

>>15737201
>current fighter jet
>current
>post a picture of Vietnam-era jet

>>15737201
Your picture is as far removed from a current fighter jet as it possibly could.
We're not flying biplanes anymore, grandpa. Cockpits are nowhere near as button heavy as they used to be back when you still fapped to ugly whores in porn mags.

>But why are they clean and not filthy like my house?
Because, believe it or not, people who have it together are not filthy apes and clean this extremely expensive shit. As well as their house. You should go clean up your room right now. God knows you've been sitting behind a computer doing shit all since granny went on the holiday.

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>>15738443
>>15738446

I see no problem with calling a fighter still in active service "current"

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>>15737201
Macross has been pretty good st having realistic cockpits, which shouldn't be surprising given its infatuation with fighter jets.

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>>15738446

This is the Gripen C cockpit, one of the best 4th gen fighters out there

So untrained teens can pilot them without issue.

>>15738790
Is there ever a "kid falls in the cockpit" trope where either:

A) it isn't already mentioned before hand that the kid is a genius/has previous mechanical training

B) the show isn't super robot

>>15738794
Most Bones mecha I've seen.

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>>15738797

>E7
>not super robot

>>15738794
King Gainer and Xegapain both had protagonists performing well in mecha for their first times simply because they were familiar with video games. (not to be confused with running actual simulations like say, Usso or Kio).
Similar to the simplicity of many anime mecha cockpits, the discrepancy between real world cockpits and a video game UI is quite a huge leap.

>>15738801
Maybe the very last Nirvash form, but I wouldn't say it had any bearing on the rest of the technology, setting or theme of the show. Even The End's beam spam wasn't any more absurd than something from a modern Macross.

>>15738794
Dougram
Crinn is able to pilot effectively because of ???

>>15738831
because he was training to pilot combat armors as part of his military service grooming him to be part of a political dynasty

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>>15738787
>there's a switch for Peace/War

>>15737201
>Why are mecha cockpits so much cleaner than IRL cockpits?

Have you seen the cockpit of a Dassault Rafale ? It's a plane designed in the 1980s and its cockpit is about as buttonless as you can get. Touch screens everywhere.
New generation fighters (western or eastern) make use of touchcreen technology, voice commands, opto-electronics interfaces, digital fly by wire systems etc... You name it. The less buttons there are the better.
Of course if you pick some cold war era bird it's going to have a mountain of buttons.

>>15738840
But he only joined the military at like episode 3 IIRC, and was only with them for like 2 episodes

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>>15738862
Rafale is a very odd case. It's been pointed out before that it's too streamlined and creates a larger delay between pilot decision and pilot action.

Eurofighter is more indicative of that generation of cockpit design. Also helps that the Eurofighter outclasses the Rafale

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>>15738862

Just to be clear : here's the rafale's cockpit (even better than the Eurofighter)

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>>15738862
>Of course if you pick some cold war era bird it's going to have a mountain of buttons.

What about the newest of fighters, the J20?

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>all these jets

Friendly reminder that realistic mecha are closer to tanks than they are aircraft

>>15738908
>Friendly reminder that realistic mecha are closer to tanks than they are aircraft

Give an example of a realistic mecha please ?
Don't say Gundam because you'll look like an idiot.

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>>15738929

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>>15738929

Scopedog

>>15738827
But Nirvash is a fully sentient being. It talks with Eureka, Renton gets used to it like a pet, it answers to commands and once you pull the magical lever its anyone's guess what it may do, from triggering an apocalypse to spreading rainbows that destroy all weapons but nothing else.

>>15738787
Gripen is an outdated piece of machinery put out by the dying Swedish arms industry.
You buy them when you're definitely not in need of a real air-force and need to spare every last cent while still getting something that won't fall apart in a few months.

This is the cockpit of Rafalle, a machine that is even older than Gripen and actually mostly using touch screens for control.
Also, the newest Gripen models are ditching the command console in favor of a single large screen ala F-35.

>>15738908
>Friendly reminder that realistic mecha are closer to tanks than they are aircraft

That's idiotic.
Tanks are unable to operate alone, they are manned by a crew of several people who bark orders at each other. They only have a single weapon system that is fixed. They make sense on the ground.

Giant robots are depicted piloted by a single person, like a fighter jet.
They can operate alone and for extended periods of time, unlike tanks.
They are presented as flexible with additional gunpods, backpacks and other stuff, like fighter jets. They make sense in space, not on the ground.

In the end, arguing for realism of giant robots being used as military machines is dumb in the first place. But comparing them as closer to tanks than aircraft is downright lunacy.

>>15738787
>One of the best 4th gen fighters out there
Lmao

>>15739206

>Depending on the series

FTFY

>>15737215
Muv-Luv was a great case in point wasn't it...

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>>15739216

to be fair, the HUD and all indicators are beamed directly into the pilot's eyes, making it unnecessary to have physical indicators in the cockpit itself.

>>15738908
>>15739206
Fighter jets controls are basically a tank crew's combat roles being folded into 1 or 2 guys with the aid of technology anyways.

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>>15739225
Yep, that was one of the awesome points of the story.
As for whole questions, modern planes seems to have more and more simple and streamlined cockpits, with every generation of equipment. Mecha is supposed to be even more modern, then our most advanced planes, so the cockpit will likely be iven simpler than that. Or even non existing, like those on Muv-Luv or Gasaraki. Virtual display with HUD and all required info, minimum manual controls, that`s all.

>>15738654
What poor bastards are stuck with Phantoms?

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>>15739423
Turkroaches, gooks, and the Japanese.

>>15739423
>poor bastards

Phantoms been putting in work against ISIS not sure we're you're getting off with this antispook shit

>>15739436
While that's true, they're not meant to be used in much capacity.
Most of their active shit is F-15s and F-2(12), with F-35s being ordered in the same number as they have Phantoms to push them out completely.

Korea is slightly worse off but they're essentially doing the same thing with their F-35 order.

>>15739498
Not saying they're useless, just outdated. Would you rather drive an Abrams or an IS-2?

>>15739590

Depends on the situation.

If I'm some bumfuck Syrian with a shitty supply chain and having to do my own maintenance, I'd much rather have a T-55 than a Leopard 2A7

>>15739241
Plus the other pilots in the squadron and the dozens of men on AWACS and Electronic Warfare planes and the others on ground based radar stations etc.

>>15739673
Yeah, in that situation so would I.

thank you macros and solid programming

Variable Fighters feel like they should be super complicated but the Valkyrie model is pretty good about keeping logically sound and consistent controls while keep a simple cockpit.

I personally would have put transformation on one or two switches instead of three switches but that was probably intentionally obtuse to show how fucky piloting them was and how technology was still held back.

>>15737201
An old Nokia has way more buttons than an iPhone. Which is more complex?

>>15740041

An old Nokia has way more buttons than a one-channel walkie talkie. Which is more complex?

>>15740049
>misses the point

>>15740071

>Doesn't realize he has no point

Button count is not a indicator of complexity, you're just as retarded a OP

>>15739991

What happens when you only need half of a macro's set of instructions?

What if I need a set of instructions that is in many different macros, but I don't want the excess instructions from each set?

Mecha cockpits don't have a million and a half "oh shit" buttons

>>15737201
Rogue System has a fairly realistic take on what a cockpit for a spacecraft powered by a nuclear reactor would be like(which is essentially what a mobile suit is)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkEBKZN9Uys
spoiler: it's a whole fucking hell of a lot of buttons

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>>15740473

Do you even watch mecha shows?

>>15740486

Still prefer Steel Battalion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hnBVuoIbW8

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>>15740486

>>15737201
Neural Links are a hell of a thing.

>>15737201
Three factor contribute to the complexity of an instrument panel.

Power source, weapons system and communications.

If the mech is powered by something simple and reliable, has simple weapons and minimal communication requirements, then the panel and controls will be relatively simple.

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>So simple a caveman could pilot it

>>15740486
This is why I want a VR headset.

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>Tanks=Mecha
>Airplanes=Mecha
>Not attack helis = Mecha

There needs to be more tandem mechas

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>>15741076

>tfw never going to have Kiowa-pilot-tier mecha pilots

>>15740893
>If the mech is powered by something simple and reliable
this is why a jet fighter cockpit is much simpler than an old prop plane cockpit.
Despite the fact that we think of them as high tech, most of the high tech wankery in jet engines is in engineering them. In terms of operating, they spin real fast and suck in air and you inject some fuel and it goes boom and the air comes out faster and hotter than it went in which makes your plane go. The only things you need to worry about are RPM and internal temperature
Prop planes on the other hand have combustion engines, you need to monitor (and in old planes without computers doing this stuff automatically, control using switches and dials) RPM, coolant pressure and temperature, fuel temperature, air/fuel ratio (need to try and suck in more air the higher you go as the air thins out), oil pressure and temperature, and prop pitch(analogous to changing gears, except it's a smooth gradient rather than switching from one to the next)

>>15741240
>Prop planes on the other hand have combustion engines, you need to monitor (and in old planes without computers doing this stuff automatically, control using switches and dials) RPM, coolant pressure and temperature, fuel temperature, air/fuel ratio (need to try and suck in more air the higher you go as the air thins out), oil pressure and temperature, and prop pitch(analogous to changing gears, except it's a smooth gradient rather than switching from one to the next)
Rapid acceleration in a Yak-9 required no fewer than six levers or the pilot risked suboptimal performance. Propjobs were a mess.

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>>15741076
Even jet engines have a lot of complexity to keep them running safely and at optimal performance/efficiency.

Early jet airliners and the Concorde had a dedicated flight engineer position in the cockpit for managing the engines and all the electrical, hydraulic and pneumatic and fuel systems running off them.

Nowadays we have FADEC so the pilot simply tells the engine what power he wants and the computers constantly monitor and adjust for it and only bother the pilot if there's a serious problem

The recent phasing out of hydraulic and bleed air systems in favor of all electric will also help reduce complexity even further.

>>15741240
How much of that carries over to modern prop planes?

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>>15741431
well since new planes have computers nowadays, it's probably kept to a minimum

>>15741431
Depends. You driving some huge radial-driven bird or something with an airworthy VW bug engine?

>>15741431
Modern prop planes are no more complicated than modern cars in terms of engine management, computers take care of all the things that you need to fiddle with to optimize performance at any given speed and altitude

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>>15741431
Engine management is all manual on your typical 70s/80s era clunker Cessnas and Pipers that makes up the bulk of the general aviation fleet.

So basically running way over-rich for significant portions of the flight emitting loads of unburnt (still leaded btw) AVGAS also clogging the engine and sometimes killing pilots who don't set carburetor heat in icing conditions.

The hope is that future GA aircraft will switch to kerosene jet fuel powered computerized FADEC modern turbo-diesel engines.

>>15738908
>Friendly reminder that realistic mecha are closer to helicopters than they are aircraft

FTFY

>>15739206
>They make sense in space, not on the ground.

A fighter jet is just as useless in space as a tank, so what's your point?

>>15741076
>>15741705

You're going to have to explain this one to me.

The fighter jet comparison makes the most sense to me, tanks less so, but Attack Helicopter I don't understand at all.

>>15741038

Harriers were infamous nugget-killers

>>15741930
Lightweight, heavily-armed, vulnerable but mobile. An attack helicopter that can stand there all day, unlike typical helicopters.

>>15737201
Because mecha cockpits are the sci-fi equivalent of Tesla interfaces.

Also, why do you need all that shit on the console? Fighter pilots actually get burned out from all that bullshit.

>>15737215
I never watched/read Muv-Luv, where is the main display, is it hidden or something? How do pilots see out of this thing?

>>15743850

see >>15739225

>>15743812
>clock
>altimeter
>speedometer
>compass
>artificial horizon
>vertical speed indicator
all very important for flying by instruments when the weather is bad and you can't see shit
>two sets of gauges for each engine
you need those to know if your engines are working properly
>A panel indicating all the missiles
>a panel for controlling all the weapons systems
>a panel for auxiliary hardpoint attachments like drop tanks
>a panel for the radio communications
>a lever for rudder trim, if you're flying in a straight line in a crosswind you might just want to set it at a constant angle
Above the throttle is controls for your oxygen mask
And I think all that crap on the bottom right is for controlling stuff in the cabin.
Also that's an A-10 isn't it? I recognize the stick.

>>15743812
>>15743854
PS they get burned out on modern jet fighters when there's a HUD in front of their face feeding them shitloads of digital information about every little thing at all times. You can pretty easily ignore some dials you don't need to look at at any given moment. Especially when you have to look down to see them, they aren't right in your face when you're trying to look at what you're flying towards.

The thing it, it is almost guaranteed that if the combat mecha ever be built in real life, even the small one (like Knightmare Frame) would need a very powerful A.I just to balance itself. So, if you already have a powerful A.I that could take over most of the actual control of the mech, why should you add more buttons?

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>>15743868

The same reason Self-propelled guns have manual controls, despite the fact that there's auto-gunlaying program installed.

When it comes to war machines, you want backup systems for your backup systems

>>15738790
TTGL

How come no one had mentioned actual modern cockpits, like the f-35s?

>>15743887

Because it's a failure?

>>15743868
>would need a very powerful A.I
Stop talking.

>>15743891
For the point of this discussion, it's level of performance is irrelevant, since your cartoon robots aren't real.

>>15743891
t. vatnik

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>>15743887
Gotta love the F-35's cockpit, its Macross as fuck
>>15743891
lol

>>15743891
>cheaper than Eurofighter
>cheaper than Rafael
>PAK-FA is a no-show
>J-20 is lol-tier
>J-31 is vaporware
>Gripen E is a fucking joke
>newer radar, lower maintenance RAM coating and better ELINT than F-22
>higher performance than everything but the Raptor
>undefeatable in current A2A trials
>smokes all competitors in A2G
>$93m a pop and dropping like a rock, not even in FRP yet

>>>failure

>>15743936
>>cheaper than Eurofighter
>>cheaper than Rafael

You don't actually believe this, do you?

>>15743936
>>15743943
Take it to /k/
all that matters here is how many buttons it has

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Thank god it won't look like a civilian airliner

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>>15743943
Tranche 3 EFT unit price is something like 120 million USD.
Rafale C/M/B variants unit cost averages around 100 million USD.

>>15743943
>>You don't actually believe this, do you?
Believe facts? Yes, I do. Not only is the LRIP-10 flyaway cost for the Air Force down to $93m/each, Japan got all their F-35's cheaper than India got their monkey-model Rafaels.

>>15743943
>muh sixty billion
Keep believing memes.

>>15743951
That was the first Jet airliner in the world though.

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>>15743951

Thank god it won't look like a submarine

How do fighter pilots take a leak mid flight?

>>15744996
The later ones are even worse.
>>15746234
A bag.

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>>15743951
?

>>15746234

Missions aren't going to last that long that you have to worry about that.

>>15746299
note to self, when building mecha, include sticker in cockpit to remind pilot what he is piloting.

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>>15737201
F4 Phantoms are definitely not current. This is what a fifth generation fighter cockpit looks like.

>>15746570

They also look like >>15737256

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>>15738929
Mecha from Ring of Red are pretty low tech, but many of them are still bipedal. Still, they require quite extensive crew / additional ground forces, so I'd risk saying that they're somewhat realistic.

>>15740645
What about that Mindshaft tech HAVWCs from FLAG had? Seemed interesting, and viable for mecha control.

Most have software which monitors a lot of shit so the pilot doesn't have to worry too much about the small things and more about not becoming a colourful smeared across the ground.

>>15746590
>They also look like >>15737256
Except thats solely because the F-22 is an ancient (the plane starting production during the era when you were still using cartridges and creaming yourself over the advertisements of the upcoming Playstation that could do toy Story like graphics) extremely pricy prototype, so they're keeping their hands off of them instead of modernising them to not be so neolythic.

>>15746524
Don't civilian airliner pilots circle through the planes they're flying? You don't exactly need to remember what you're flying as long as you know how.

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>>15746570
So Brazil is getting fifth generation birds with... their new F-5's :^)

Gundams are literally called Aircraft btw, just in case you aren't up to date on semantics.

>>15750549
its probably just for the announcement

>>15750537

>Solely

The F-22 is one of the only two active-service 5th Generation fighters in the world.

If we want to talk about what 5th generation fighter cockpits look like, you can't just show only one of the two and pretend that's it.

>>15750952
Its also more likely that 5th gen aircraft from other nations will be more like the F-35 with its large touchscreen color monitor cockpits instead of the older F-22 style which was more of a mix between older analog cockpits and modern glass cockpits.

>>15746570
why does it have condoms over the HOTAS sticks?

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Friendly reminder that Boeing's concept for what an Advanced Super Hornet would look like, looks like the F-35.

Giant screens are the trend for newer jets.

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>>15752648
Just like my fighter jet animes.

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Eurofighter Typhoon + BAE Striker II HMD