So for as long as I've been here, /m/ told me this show

>>15731602
>What am I in for
Reused footage, but you already knew that.
Also a wave of stupid has hit Orb and everybody wants to join the Federation that just tried to invade them to steal their orbital elevator. If you don't already hate Kira, you're probably going to like Destiny pretty well. I was disappointed in the cut-and-paste UC grunts replacing SEED's grunts, but that's my only real gripe.
Also do not be fooled by the anti-Kira corps, Shinn is *not* the new main character. He gets a lot of focus, but it's still going to be Kira and Athrun.

Promotional material made it look like SEED's answer to Zeta so /m/ expected a new protagonist (Shinn) and many (especially those who hated Kira for not being edgy enough) were extremely angry when Shinn didn't kill him off and take over the show.

>>15731602
You're in for a fairly decent reimagining of Zeta until it shifts focus to Jesus Yamato and how he is the lord and savior sent from above and beyond reproach and he completely steals the show away from the MC of the first half and it goes off the rails

>>15731602
That fucking Kira on the image always gets me.

Ever since someone pointed it out in a post, I think he's part snake.

>>15731602
seed wasn't bad

destiny was very bad

>>15731602
Kira is a faggot Gary Stu and the Hirai face is fucking awful. Other than that, its pretty alright. Athrun best boy, etc. Good taste on Murrue, though, she's not nearly as good as mid-ZZ age Bright.

>>15731639
>the MC of the first half
Alex Dino?

>>15731602
>Kira doesn't whine nearly as much as Amuro
no

>>15731624
Shinn had a monopoly on promotional and OP footage for a majority of the first half of the show, stop trying to rewrite history to fit what ended up happening

>>15731801
>what ended up happening
lol
>you thought Shinn would replace Kira
>you thought Shinn killed Kira
>neither one happened
>you're still butthurt 10 years later
THAT is what ended up happening. The fact is that at the end of the series Kira is still the protagonist. There is absolutely no reason to mislead any newcomers about that. It *IS* the Kira&Athrun show regardless of how much you wanted it to be otherwise, or how much the merchandise mislead you. Deal with it.

>>15731602
Your reaction was much the same as mine to Seed.

For Destiny, you're in store for much the same, with some in my opinion more interesting philosophical concepts. Rather then stating the cycle of revenge is awful, it asks if anyone could ever end the cycle of vengeance.

Some prominent characters make poor decisions, but for the most part it's all well justified. There are some bits and pieces lore wise that don't make much sense (Lacus pulling state of the art Gundams out of a small private corp working for her) but all the character stuff is quite dramatic and works really well.

honestly my main issue with SEED is the occasional bit of pointless gorn it uses to try and appear mature

File: picture-standard-anime-mobile-suit-gundam-seed-destiny-zaft-20674-tatsuki-preview-c358065d.jpg (296KB, 985x685px) Image search: [Google]

296KB, 985x685px

>>15731818
I can't help but notice that the entire defense of GSD resides on NEENER NEENER, THE NEW CAST SUCKED ANYWAY

I don't know, ghetto gangsters. Usually when you do promotional art of particular characters, the idea is that you stick with them, unless you're going for some sort of clever twist. Otherwise, you've just wasted a lot of time and money on pretty much nothing.

The thing about stories, (Especially animated ones with a limited amount of time to be told), is that you can't just regret an idea you established earlier on, and then just try to wash it away by focusing on someone else, because of fanbases or because you don't like them anymore, because that just means have an even smaller amount of space to tell the rest of the story.

It's like if Harry Potter decided that it was going to make Ron a more major character in the middle of book 6. You think that it wouldn't end up like a huge disaster?

>>15731602
Now there's an opinion you rarely see around here.
>Kira doesn't whine nearly as much as Amuro
The writing for Kira feels incredibly stiff, at times he whines for an entire episode and then in others he goes rather stoic, I distinctly remember far more episodes where Kira gets despondent more frequently than Amuro
>he was far more believable as a good pilot than Amuro who relied on his machine
While Kira in the Strike was definitely inventive when it came to piloting, the suggestion that Amuro relied on his machine is complete bullshit. While the Gundam's computer definitely helped him a little, Amuro showed on numerous occasions that his own talent pulled him through some of his toughest battles. His suggestion that the gundam's computer allowed him to fight against Char is modesty or the idea he has as much talent as Char is unbelievable to him. Also Kira begins relying on his machine being better for the rest of the time you see him. Get really used to seeing him rely on the Freedom's speed, ridiculously large arsenal, and beam spam attacks.

File: stargazer0.webm (3MB, 854x480px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 854x480px

>>15731905
I'll admit that it was in bad taste but as a degenerate sadist I kinda found it interesting.
Weirdly, that quirk was kept around for Stargazer despite it being done by a completely different team, IIRC.

>>15731639
But this isn't Destiny...

>>15731935
>I can't help but notice that the entire defense of GSD resides on NEENER NEENER, THE NEW CAST SUCKED ANYWAY
>can't help but notice
>there was no comment on the new cast whatsoever in my post
Nice try.
But my point stands. The show was completed a decade ago, and in the end it was Kira and Athrun. Regardless of what pre-production intentions, mid-production changes, and fan reactions took place, when someone sits down to watch Destiny what they're going to get is a Kira and Athrun story that focuses heavily on Shinn in the first half. No amount of dislike will change this fact, it was completed a decade ago.

>>15731744

seed was bad

destiny was very bad

seed was very good.
destiny was bad.

>>15732724
You're literally doing exactly what I'm talking about!

>/pol/ tier eugenics
>terrible moe blob male chars
>self insert from fembot director and her bae
>whiny preachy moe blobs killing thousands while "uguu~ war is bad"

kys.

File: FB_IMG_1501405736104.jpg (19KB, 499x338px) Image search: [Google]

19KB, 499x338px

>copies 0079 without having any of its charm
>it's better than the original

>>15732724
The revisionist history that Destiny fans tell has to be a sign of mental illness.

>>15731602
>I'm about to check out the sequel. What am I in for?

A failed attempt to retell Zeta in a "then modern" format. A collection of staff in-fighting and questionable writing led to shifting the focus back towards Kira and company after negative reception to the new cast.

>>15731801

Yeah but even in the early parts of the show he was in the background compared to Athrun and Cagalli, and later Kira.

If anything it was a marketing fuck up because Bandai wanted to push it at the new Zeta even though that wasn't at all what Fukuda was intending to do.

>>15732016

Amuro relied on the Gundam's invincibility compared to what Zeon could throw at him early on, way more than Kira relied on Strike's.

Nothing Zeon had for the first half of the show could do more than knock Amuro around, even Char, where as Kira had to fight 4 guys that had weapons capable of destroying Strike.

>>15733493
Gundam could be damaged by mobile suits as soon as the Gouf came out.

Also you're forgetting that Strike was never fighting all 4 Gundams alone, and they always had to be on Guuls to get around, since the majority of their fights were in the air.

>>15733493
>Nothing Zeon had for the first half of the show could do more than knock Amuro around
Gouf sword sliced the cockpit open

>>15733484
Did we watch the same show? because I seem to recall Kira and company being relegated to cameos in the early parts of the show. Athrun is around a lot more, but then he's also a part of the Minerva crew, so it follows.

I don't know where in the blue hell this notion that Kira is clearly the main character from thw word go comes from.

>>15733653

I'd say it's Athrun and Kira being the main characters again.

Kira doesn't start showing up regularly until 20 eps in or so, but the beginning is all Athrun. At no point does Shinn ever really seem like the lead even in early episodes.

The hanging around Minerva sequences almost always follow Athrun, while Shinn is either talking to Athrun, or brooding.

>>15734386
Shinn did all the fighting in early episodes. Athrun got screen time in the ship but Shinn was out doing the most work. Then you obviously get 12 where Shinn shined a whole lot. Even the early Orb episodes gave Shinn a whole lot of screen time.

>>15733516
>>15733530
12 episodes into a 43 episode series is wel past early on.

>>15734498
>the first half of the show
Are you just gonna move the goalposts now

File: Seed_destiny01.jpg (94KB, 658x437px) Image search: [Google]

94KB, 658x437px

OP here.

So I'm part way through Destiny and one thing bugs me. Why the fuck does Asuran trust the chairmen over Kira and Cagali? Shouldn't them saying they tried to murder Lacus be a huge red flag? Why is he so retarded?

>>15734995
There's no definitive proof that it was Durandal, even if there's strong circumstantial evidence. And given Athrun is working for Durandal, Durandal has shown nothing but absolute faith in him, and the way Durandal helped him through a few father issues, it's hard for Athrun not to give him the benefit of the doubt.

>>15734995
Because Athrun isn't all "the power of friendship conquers all!"
He thinks the leader of a nation (one that can actually lead, Cagalli sucks at this) has a better chance at bringing peace, which is what Athrun always wanted.
Also, Kira just makes battles more complicated for the Minerva crew, who are just trying to defend themselves against EF.
Iirc Kira&Co didn't have evidence for the assassination attempt, so to Athrun it's just Kira&co claiming that everyone but them is evil, while they fuck up battles and get Athruns colleagues killed in the process.

>>15731801
>>15731818
>>15732724
>GSD was always going to be about Kira and Athrun
>Sunrise always meant to spend all that money on creating a new cast just so the directors can just throw them away
>None of your whining matters because of what the final product ended up being

Seeing a lot of butthurt going around here. That Jesus Yamato defense force is out today.

>>15736216
That fake marketing was so good they even fooled Shinns voice actor!

>first couple arcs are relatively grounded, i.e. lots of scenes of Kira in the cockpit coding away
>series slowly devolves into the beam-spammiest shit you've ever seen
You either die a Real Robot or live long enough to see yourself become a Super Robot

>>15736705
That's not what Super Robot is. Seed and Destiny are pretty firmly Real Robot, even within the Gundam franchise.

>>15736871
In point of fact, the tech in SEED is actually kind of shitty in comparison to most Gundam settings. The peak of mobile suit power plants in the Cosmic Era is spruced up fission reactors when even the shittiest Zaku expy in any other series is almost certainly running on fusion power of some kind. And then there's phase shift armour, which does the same thing as stuff like luna titanium or Gundanium (render the suit effectively invulnerable to conventional physical weapons)...as long as it's sucking vast amounts of power from the reactor (or the batteries in some cases).

>>15731935

Considering SEED was very heavy handed that the Kira/Lacus/Orb way of forgiveness and not buying one side being justified was the only right moral choice in the setting, Shinn was pretty much the opposite of that (he hates Orb, and has no mercy or forgiveness for anyone but Stella for some reason) which kind of killed his chances at the protagonist slot. It's not like they could backtrack on Seed and go "Wait nevermind, Zaft was the more justified country after all"

He was kind of damned regardless thanks to how Seed ended up working out. Either he becomes another Orb/Lacus drone, or he's the bad guy.

>>15738393
>the Kira/Lacus/Orb way of forgiveness and not buying one side being justified
But the problem with that is that it's not their way. It's what they tout, but looking at their behaviour and dialogue it's clear that there IS one side that is justified: their own. Wherever they park their feet is the moral high ground. Kira/Lacus/Orb did a lot of *really* damaging and highly questionable stuff during the series and exactly once does Kira (just him though) express even a smidgeon of doubt about their course of action (and he promptly asks Lacus to talk him back round). They were meant to be pure goodly good guys, and so the writing assumes them to be beyond reproach, which is a real problem when they most certainly are not.

>>15734995
Because Kira is retarded and indiscriminately shoots at people?

File: c000ea38bbda966c77259fdc0af11d1d1495663461_full.jpg (315KB, 640x960px) Image search: [Google]

315KB, 640x960px

OP again


Just finished Destiny. I'm going to go out of my way and say I didn't hate it, but I admit it was a mess.

Pros

The show actually started out great, and I like that Shinn was a very different character from Kira. Sort of refreshing that Kira was absent for the first portion, and gave room for Zaft. Whenver we got focus on Shinn and Asuran's relationship, I did get vibes from Kamille and Quattro. Wish Asuran kept the Alex Dino identity, though. Shinn's relationship with Stella was also qt if a little too on the nose as a Kamille/Four rip off. But I'm all for homage, which this Show had in spades really.

Ok, that's where my positives end.

Cons

Cagali sucks, really bad. She was my favorite female in Seed, and she was reduced into a wet blanket. It wasn't until the very last half she got her shit together, but by then she is written off the show.

Asuran's problems are similar. Outside of his interactions with Shinn, he just spins his wheels only to go back to how he was at the start. Nothing Asuran did in between really mattered because he ends the show the same way he was before.

Kira and Lacus are not characters. They are plot devices. Even when Kira is seemingly back to being the MC, he doesn't grow or change. And Lacus is still her same, boring, perfect self.

The new characters were largely forgettable, or just plain poorly handled. I mentioned I enjoyed Shinn for the first part, but he just loses every ounce of appeal he had early on. What I thought would be the modern approximation of Kamille ended up becoming the Jerid Messa for this universe. All he did was job vs Kira and Asuran, and being the chairmen and Rey's lapdog. Embarrassing.

And to end it off, that final battle was so bad and tensionless. The "good guys" pretty much dismantled the Zaft forces without so much as a scratch and Rey, the chairmen's right hand man literally got talk no jutsu'd.

Utimately, this was a massive step down from Seed, both character wise and structurally.

A shitton of reused footage and recap episodes

>>15739775
Agreed on everything. I did like knock off Lacus even though many others didn't and it would have been nice to have her survive and play a larger role or die in a more satisfactory way. What they did to Cagali is a crime.

>>15736216
>was always
>always meant
As I said, when and if they did change their mind, it was over a decade ago. The show is already completed, over a decade ago. Anyone sitting down to watch it for the first time in 2017 is going to get a Kira & Athrun story, because that's how it ended, a decade ago.
>a lot of butthurt
One hundred and forty two months have passed since you didn't get the ending you wanted, and you're still crying about it.
You have been mad for four thousand, three hundred, and twenty two days.

>>15740133

That's probably why it never bothered me much. I only watched it long after both had been out for years and I watched them back to back so it went from the Kira and Athrun show to the Athrun..and then Kira again a few episodes in show.

Shinn never seemed more than a supporting character ever, and if you skip the OP (and if you're marathoning it you will after while) there's nothing than indicates he's supposed to be the protagonist. In fact he's not even in the eyecatches, and never was from the start of the show actually.

I guess if you were waiting and followed the prerelease hype you might be upset that Shinn wasn't the lead, but that's a small amount of people it seems.

>>15740454
>but that's a small amount of people it seems.
Small but indefatigably vocal.

>>15739775
Did you watch the original or remaster? The original ending was on a whole other level of awful.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=7gyAl6v6jx0

>>15731602
Seed by itself is alright. Nothing great but nothing horrible either. It's middle of the road. Destiny is worse and drags the previous show down with it.

>>15740062
>I did like knock off Lacus
For some reason that brief moment where we see a picture of her pre-surgery and she looks like a perfectly normal, ordinary girl rather than a ridiculous anime pop princess tugged at my heartstrings just a little. It felt like there was probably a really interesting and down to earth story of an awkward young woman's insecurity and the tragedy it led to in there somewhere. Not something that would have fit in the show no matter how you slice it, but it still makes me think.

>>15740531
I saw the extra ending, but not the remastered version of the series. What did the remaster do with the ending?

>>15740669

It cut up final plus into two episodes and made them episodes 49 and 50. It found the space by cutting out the original 41 (which was the worst recap episode of the series) which moved the original 42-49 back one episode each.

This also gives one final spite to Shinn though, because he gets taken out at the end of 49 and thus no shows the final ep almost entirely.

>>15736883
I would say the opposite, the seed universe has ridiculous technology levels. You could argue that the only reason they don't have fusion powered mobile suits is because minovsky magic apparently doesn't exist there, which is what allowed them to be compact enough to fit in suits in uc. Though it's probably actually because then they couldn't use running out of power as a dramatic element.
Other than that they progress at a ridiculous level. They pretty much go through the entire tech progression of 0079 to say victory or f91 in the span of, what, 2 years?
Although, to be fair, they already had a lot of that tech before the series started, just not used on mobile suits.
And we all know it's because it's easier to copy ideas from a parallel universe than make up your own.

>>15741677
To add to what this poster said. The power output of SEED fission reactors are ridiculous. According to the Gundam SEED Cosmic Era Mechanic and World artbook, the Freedom has a power output of 8826 kW, which is more than the output on the ZZ Gundam (7340 kW), whose output is unsurpassed by any other mobile suit even by the time of Hathaway's Flash.

>>15731602
>So for as long as I've been here, /m/ told me this show was bad.
That's not true, you just didn't pay attention to what was said. It's very well known here that Gundam SEED is actually pretty good; a lot of people don't like it because it's highly derivative of the original Gundam (read: homage) and because of stock footage and the fact that the protagonist becomes a divine power in the second half. Minor problems compared to many other Gundam entries.

No, if you'd paid attention you'd have learned that the "bad" Gundam is Gundam Seed DESTINY, the sequel. Years ago I read of its infamy; so what did I do? Contrarian I am, I watched the whole thing. It's almost unexplainable; I actually stopped the show multiple times to take screenshots and post threads asking about the ridiculous situation of that episode. The stylization and narrative are the same as SEED, but so much is wildly different it's like a parody show.

We really need to get over this "SEED is bad" in favour of "DESTINY is bad" because that is literally how it is.

Also if you're going to watch Destiny, remember to watch Stargazer afterwards to get the taste out of your mouth.

>>15741752
My own personal experience was that SEED was firmly 'eh'. For me it was kind of a wave function, oscillating between occasional peaks of actually being pretty well executed and being really fucking dumb and stupid, and it thus averaged out to just kind of okay.

>>15741752
I don't know if I'd call SEED good but it is worth a watch because the second half is interesting.
Motherfucking Stargazer is the shit though. Too bad about it being stuck in CE.

>>15741687

Adding further, Freedom and Justice have well over 500,000kg of thrust. Their acceleration is ridiculous compared to anything before the formula era.

File: 1470325128227.png (21KB, 271x202px) Image search: [Google]

21KB, 271x202px

>>15741752
>It's very well known here that Gundam SEED is actually pretty good

File: 1444135322700.png (1MB, 1600x1597px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1600x1597px

>>15741752
>It's very well known here that Gundam SEED is actually pretty good
What's with this shitty meme? No one here thinks SEED is good infact unless you're a nostalgiafag you shouldn't think its good at all.

>minor problems
SEED has A LOT more problems than that moreso than a plethora of Gundam anime and even leaving animation mishaps aside even before you hit Destiny there's a plethora of problems it has narratively and the characters are just not appealing whatsoever because they barely act like human beings. Why people seem to believe it was Destiny that ruined SEED when it was already bad is beyond me. CE is the perfect example of "good on paper poorly executed".

>>15741752
People recognised SEED as bad when it was new

File: 47491160_jft.jpg (139KB, 667x590px) Image search: [Google]

139KB, 667x590px

>>15742015

>>15740650
>Miss Lacus is so beautiful, so kind, so adored! [...] I'm just Meer. Nobody really needs me.

>>15743163

As well she should. Like a regular girl could compare to Lacus-sama

>>15741687
>>15742015
>>15741677
Seed suits are extremely heavy. They have similar technology to late UC like beam shields but forgot the most important thing of making suits smaller, lighter and more maneuverable. Freedom weighs like 4x more than the average late UC suit.

>>15743313
You don't need to be as light as later UC Mobile Suits to be as agile as they are. You just need more thrust, stronger vernier.

>>15731602

I don't remember Amuro having intense sessions of soul crushing crying like the world's ending. So nope, Kira whined and angsted much more than Amuro did.

Also, the Gundam only carried Amuro so long his only enemies were Zakus with their peashooters. Once better MS came into the show, Amuro had to get better or get shitwrecked.

And how is Kira more believable? He can pretty much reprogram the strike on the fly into being very adapted to the current battlefield while Amuro had to deal with it and actually learn to deal with any disadvantage the gundam could have.

>>15742208

It wasn't even good on paper. Pretty much the entire setting and plots of both seasons clinged in the concept of humanity somehow creating superhumans multiple times better than regular humans and fantasy racism that would make the KKK look like reasonable people with reasonable fears

>>15743580
>Amuro had to deal with it

Uh. How about you're pretty wrong here. Amuro never had to deal with the Gundam doing any of the things Strike did because Strike's OS was an Incomplete prototype.

Gundam's learning computer did all the things AUTOMATICALLY Kira had to reprogram the Strike to do. Plus AMBAC handled changes in environments on it's own too.

>>15743605
>Strike's OS was an Incomplete prototype.
While this is true, and it is also true that Kira (unbelievably) rewrote the OS in a matter of seconds,
>did all the things AUTOMATICALLY
is false. There were several scenes of Amuro laboring for hours reprogramming the RX-78-2. That was why he was asleep in his chair when he awoke to hear Bright telling Mirai that he was thinking about taking Amuro out of the Gundam. Maybe that wasn't in the movies, idk, but if you watch the series Amuro did a LOT of data entry (he just did it slower than Kira, and on White Base instead of mid-battle).

>>15743679
Amuro also had far more trial and error. Kira did everything right the first time just because he's Kira. Amuro's data on Zaku's was inaccurate because he didn't take into consideration that different pilots handle machines far differently from each other.

>>15743679
>is false.
I was talking strictly about the instances where Kira had to modify things on-the-fly. Like in the desert or during the Strike's first battle.

>There were several scenes of Amuro laboring for hours reprogramming the RX-78-2.

They have this in common, Kira worked just as hard at keeping the Strike optimized as Amuro did. He falls asleep in the cockpit at least once that I remember. None of this was a knock on Amuro, it's just people like to claim Kira has some silly reliance on reprogramming his MS. Ignoring the fact it was often required, and other pilots often either already had their MS Optimized for them or gradually did it over time.

>>15743699

Eh, Kira had plenty of trail and error. His first space sortie for example.

>>15743723
>people like to claim Kira has some silly reliance on reprogramming his MS
Oh, you mean the people who claim Kira is a shit pilot with an aimbot? Yeah, those people have their headcanon built on a foundation of "reasons to hate Kira". Personally I don't see how someone can even spin that as a negative. Even if you assume that it's just the computer aiming all that beamspam automatically, you still have to give him credit for being able to program it since no one else seems to have that app. I don't even buy that theory anyway, I think he's just manually locking targets ridiculously fast, just like he does everything else ridiculously fast. The aimbot theory is just people trying to downplay Kira's accomplishments.

>>15743755
The scene where he pilots Cagalli's strike to save the eternal shows him doing the same super precise non lethal shooting.

>>15731602
Abandon all hope watching it.

It tries to be Zeta, but without doing any of the good Zeta did. Instead their version of the AEUG(I guess?) turns out to be the /real/ bad guys.

And Kira instead of being in the role Amuro was to Kamille, Kira takes the spotlight from Shinn, and it all becomes a shitshow.

The Impulse is mostly just a copy of the Strike, and the Destiny is a poor upgrade.

Plus Lacus becomes more annoying, and everyone seems to have brain damage.

>>15743968
chalk it up to being lazy since they also show him using radar lock on a lot in the freedom

>>15746789
It's not trying to be Zeta. It's sort of like Zeta at the very beginning but it's actively imitating Zeta. Nor should it.

>>15747296
>but it's actively imitating Zeta
Meant it's not actively imitating Zeta.