So, noon question. I've seen 08th MS Team, the first season

Wow. Noob*

Jesus christ dude, if you've watched those and you still don't get it, you might actually be retarded.

>>15716132
Uh Thunderbolt and 08th MS Team are both completely character driven.

>>15716132
Also I'm only on episode 9 of 0079

>>15716141
Hasn't the narrator been explaining the plot at the start of every episode you have watched so far?

0079's narrator should've covered the basics, but yes it does go into greater detail later.

>>15716113
they're autistic

>>15716157
No, it just repeats the same thing as the beginning of the first episode. All it mentions is that zeon wants independence. But I want to know if they'll ever go into greater detail on it. What happened that they want independence, what are their views, etc. I know that typically any anime would explain these things, but I figure since I'm watching a high budget toy commercial that I should probably ask.

>>15716197
Tomino rarely does big-ass info dumps for the inattentive, so most information you'll get will be from Gihren's speeches and natural character interactions. The narrator will also kick in at times and break it down a little, but it's...pretty self explanatory. Earth Federation rules the colonies, the colonies want to rule themselves, hence independence.

Once it gets to actually showing the Zabis and Gihren's speeches though, you'll get a better idea of the propaganda they're throwing around. Honestly though, a lot of the more intricate details of WHY and HOW and what, exactly, happened are covered outside of the original MSG series. You'll get the gist, but MSG is also pretty strongly focused on the White Base crew and Char's shenanigans.

>>15716113
Essentially, the Sides get fed up that they're getting stifled by the Federation (over the course of the UC it gets summed up as the colonies being a migrant dumping ground expected to serve the Federation's production interests yet not have political clout, kinda like British Colonies back in the 18th century or so). One of them flips out, secedes from Federation ownership, and declares itself the Principality of Zeon.

Zeon, being an allusion to the Axis powers, goes full Nazi-meets-IJ, and commits outrageous acts of war violence (that is, dropping a space colony on Earth because it's ok to commit preemptive mass murder in an attempt to decapitate the Federation high command at Jaburo, because the IJN trying to shut down the USN at Pearl Harbor back in the day worked out just as well for them eh?), claiming it initially to be in the name of independence but gradually shifting towards racial superiority rhetoric as one Gihren Zabi becomes the principal commander of the Principality of Zeon.

The nuances of the conflict get expanded upon, retconned, and recontextualized the more of the UC era you experience, but the gist of it is that what once was a movement for autonomy for the colonies turned into Space National Socialism.

>>15716251
Which isn't to say that MSG isn't worth watching. The first 15 or so episodes are alright, but it really gets going after that. /m/anly tears and all that.

Also, there could legit be a space horror flick where people hear the chant "la...la" before they're blown up by an unseen enemy.

>>15716113
>Do they ever elaborate on what each side is fighting about?

If you would've watched in production order like you were supposed to, you would already know that.

File: 20170721_105243.jpg (435KB, 1816x1027px) Image search: [Google]

435KB, 1816x1027px

>>15716197
>a high budget toy commercial

>>15716197
>What happened that they want independence

Why would any group of people want independence?

>>15716295
I'm only quoting /m/, friend.

>>15716251
>>15716251
>>15716197
>>15716284
Thank you both, I appreciate the explanations, and thanks for not bitching at me for not watching in production order.

>>15716295
I'm only quoting /m/, friend.

>>15716251
>>15716251
>>15716197
>>15716284
Thank you both, I appreciate the explanations, and thanks for not bitching at me for not watching in production order.

>>15716295
Space Assad did nothing wrong

TL;DR version
Earth Federation controls the world from space
Zeon and it's various successors are based on earth and want to secede.
Feds no likey-likey
Wars happen

>>15716251
>>15716284
There's also a Napoleon/Stalin-esque "traitor to the revolution" aspect to this where the Zabis turned a more socialistic (if not necessarily less extreme) movement in the colonies into something more autocratic and not everybody just went along with this, which is where Char's part of the story comes in.

The Earth Federation is made up of self-loathing bleeding-hearts who blame the Zabis for every ill in the Earth sphere, and elitists suffering from power-envy, bitter that the its colonies' only superpower can do what it likes without having to ask permission. The truth is that Zeon has behaved with enormous restraint since the death of Garma Zabi. Remember, remember.

Remember the gut-wrenching tapes of Garma phoning his girlfriend to say, "I love you," before he was burned alive. Remember him charging to his death from inside of a burning Gaw. Remember the hundreds of crewmen incinerated. Remember, remember - and realise that Zeon has never retaliated for Garma in anything like the way it could have.

So a few Side 6 tourists got locked without a trial? Pass the Kleenex. So some Southeast Asian wedding receptions were shot up after they merrily fired their semi-automatics into a jungle full of Zeon mobile suits? A shame, but maybe next time they should stick to confetti.

I love Zeon, yet Zeon is hated. Zeon is hated because it is what every country wants to be - rich, free, strong, open, optimistic. Or do you really think the Principality is the root of all evil?

Tell it to my brother Garma Zabi, who was incinerated by the Federation warship White Base. Tell it to the nursing mothers whose husbands died in that battle, or were ripped apart in the explosion. And tell it to the millions of young widows whose husbands gave their lives for the Principality. To our shame, Zeon Deikun gets a worse press than General Revil.

Remember, remember, Garma Zabi. One of the greatest atrocities in human history was committed against Zeon.

No, do more than remember. Never forget!

>>15716284
>One of them flips out, secedes from Federation ownership, and declares itself the Principality of Zeon.
Two things that get missed a lot in fan perception of UC history is that Zeon had been independent for like 20 years before the war started and TWO sides had seceded from the Federation before the OYW happened, 3 and 6. In the books or something like that they even talk about how Zeon had sent some of its forces over to side 6 when they split off to act as a deterrent to the Federation trying to re-take it despite them eventually being neutral in the war anyway, which I guess makes them kinda like Spain in the grand Gundam WW2 allegory. Both of these things obviously undermine the Zeon claims that they were fighting for their own or anybody else's independence because they already had it and others have already done it for themselves.

>>15716113
....you're watching 0079, right?...Well watch more and you'll feel stupid for asking

>>15716564
To be fair I think it was autonomy and acknowledgement of their sovereign status that was implicit in Zeon's wanting to be its own thing. I don't think the Federation ever really acknowledged the Sides as a sovereign entity, they just sorta laughed off and disrespected their secession as one would do to any insurrectionist group.

It's like space ISIS in a way. They try to declare a principality/caliphate and claim absolute authority over all of spacenoids/Islam, the world at large sorta laughs it off at first, and then the nasty shit goes down.

>>15716524

It's worth remembering that Napoleon was very much a reactionary to the revolutionary Jacobins (you can see this in very specific things like the restoration of slavery in France's colonies or the return to the original calendar and restoration of the church). Napoleon didn't instigate the terror--he was briefly arrested during it--but he absolutely benefited from Robespierre's fall, and his personality cult reinforced that (so he was either the savior of the state or the traitor to the revolution).

On the other hand, the Zabis do exhibit some conservative trans formative tendencies themselves, particularly in The Origin. Plus the end of the French Revolutionary Wars and the beginning of the Napoleonic Wars in Europe could make sense in the escalation to the OYW from all the small conflicts we see in The Origin.

>>15716113
If you really want the deep political shit behind Zeon, watch The Origin OVAs. Basically, the Zabi family false-flag assassinated Zeon (Char's dad) to gain more power and stir up the people against the EFF, using Zeon as a martyr while completely ignoring the original political message that he wanted. Zabi Zeon are just cunts and there's nothing politically deep about them. People are fighting for Zeon out of fear or stupidity.

Char isn't really fighting for Zeon, he's just trying to salvage what he can from the mess until he finds an opportunity to seize power for his own agenda.

Neither side truly wins and everything everyone died for gets thrown out of the window every ten years since humans are inherently flawed creatures.

>>15717349
Origin makes some really stupid retcons like Kycillia being behind Sasro's assassination just for slapping her, which not only makes her cartoonishly evil but makes the backstory of the Zabi's ascension less politically and morally complex because Sasro's death used to show that the people who live in Side 3 aren't just a bunch of goosestepping zombies and the Zabis didn't have complete control over them.

Another Kycillia related Origin misstep was having her kill Gihren just because she saw it as an opportunity to usurp him instead of out of genuine disgust for killing their father. Once again, makes her a less morally complex character.

>>15716535
Garma and Dozle were the only good people from the Zabi family

>>15716535
please defend GASSING SPACENOIDS the VERY PEOPLE THEY SWEAR TO REPRESENT
fucking zeek scum i swear

>>15716113
It's like the American Revolution but the Zeons are Natsocs/Nazis/National Socialists.

>>15722223
>it's 1488 in my 1776

God bless America.

>>15722223
Its not like the American Revolution you dumb Zeek

>>15722418
>muh colonies fighting for independence against a force twice the size thus bringing the David vs Goliath allegory

I see nothing wrong with Nazi glorification. Let commit same mistakes all over again

>>15722418
They wanted independence from a superpower.

>>15717349
>he's just trying to salvage what he can from the mess until he finds an opportunity to seize power for his own agenda.

Not really. He's just trying to kill the Zabis during the war and only later got into politics after being pressured into it by the AEUG and then because he got fed up with how the EF was doing things. Outside of the Origin manga he never showed any hints of a grand plan or political interests during the OYW. Dude just wanted to kill the Zabis for fucking up his life and dad.

In the origin manga he basically becomes batshit crazy and has some plan where after the war he'll create a newtype uprising and take control of Zeon turning it into a newtype nation to lead humanity with him as the chosen one, literally THE Newtype.

>>15723438
In MSG, he had a conversation with Kycilia about how he's totally not just out for revenge anymore. Lying through his teeth, I'm sure, but he did say some shit about how his views changed with new types showing up.

>>15723392
>>15722915
They already had independence from all the sources of the supplementary material, they wanted to stay independent and continue to receive goods from Earth. All while inciting and supporting other Sides independence movements.

>>15716113
I think you're looking for IBO, they spoonfeed you the plot in big narrative chunks