>Spends the entire series brainwashing Shinn to hate Kira,

>>15677631
Kira's newtype powers are just that powerful.

Destiny wasn't exactly well-written, in case you hadn't noticed.

>>15677631

To be fair I think talking to Kira for any length of time is enough to make anyone retarded

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>>15677631
Gundam SEED Destiny is not a good show.
Character will shift through emotions, ideals, characterization and thoughts at the drop of a hat at the the convenience of the plot. Imagine watching the first few episodes as it aired and thinking the series was going to be great.

Kira, now the main character again, and Gilbert, now cemented as the leader of The Badguys have to do the thing where they meet and wax philosophy at each other. We're obviously not going to let Kira get blood on his hands, so let's have Rey do it. Someow, Rey spending most of his life being fathered by Gilbert, and being used as the Negative Guy in the Minerva's crew because of his loyalty to Gil has how been convinced to not just turn against him, but to shoot him as well. How convenient. I think Rey and Kira's fight uses mostly stock footage from the last series as well

Shinn goes from an angry kid with a chip on his shoulders but ultimately means well, and likes to follow his own heart is now an authoritarian attack dog. Why does Shinn believe in the Destiny Plan? What's he getting out of this? Shouldn't he take issue with Orb and Scandiavia being destroyed rather than just having their government/military dismantled? Who knows, because the writers certainly don't. I

Athrun somehow manages to repeat the same cycle he did in the last series, spends most of his time with the new cast moping about by himself, and is a massive hypocrite
No, Shinn, stop trying to be a hero and use your power wisely! Follow orders! Hey, you can't save that person, no matter what the circumstances, she's the enemy! Maybe it would be better off if you left her alone! Wait, you can't attack MY friends, even though they've attacked us on various occasions despite being ORDERED to do it, you're all just misunderstood! Have a punch in the face for being a jerk, Shinn!

Everyone brings up the SRW/official fanfiction of this series because it does it's best to wipe the crap off of it.

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>>15677631
>>Literally gets mind broken by Kira's gundam protagonist babble after talking to him for 30 seconds and just lets himself get shot down while Shinn at least fights until the end
I'd honestly rather have seen Shinn be convinced to drop his weapons rather than that embarrassing display. It's like that entire final battle was written to spite the character, even with the heavy usage of stock footage from the 2nd Orb Battle. It'd also have be easy to close his character arc if Athrun said something about "hey, this thing is going to make a lot more people like you", but fuck that. You're Killing the Future.

Bonus points; they found the guy who drew this picture in Japan and asked him what the deal was. He said that he didn't know what was going to happen, and he wasn't given much details at all, they just told him to draw a cool picture

>>15677752
Most of Rey vs. Kira is actually just Rau vs. Kira with providence reskinned as Legend too

>>15677752
Athrun's character personality was massacred. And so was Cagalli's as well.

I wouldn't be surprised if the VA was only expected to toss pointless one-liners after all the drama that happened behind the scenes. The only remaining badassery he had was fighting off Shinn while still badly injured, but then went right into being a background buddy to Kira until that final match with Shinn.

>>15677631
Let's not forget the foreshadowing between him and Neo, man so much went down between those two later on right?

>>15677875
It's no different than all the Rau/Mwu shit that ended up being like one stompfest fight at the very end

>>15677885
At least there was a conclusion to it, unlike Neo who was just LMAO DUDE ITS MWU. It was so fucking dumb I refused to believed it at the time.

>>15677893
Don't forget Mwu just gets a happy ending even though he's ultimately the one who caused Berlin to get Stella'd

>>15677904
The whole Neo being Mwu thing was really just a dumb cowardly capitulation to the fan rankings.
He was the only one in the entire Earth Alliance worth a shit outside of mooks in mobile armors then after that he is reduced to making fancy poses with not hyaku shiki jesus.

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>>15677752
And because I don't like heresy about Gundam SEED Destiny sinc there's so much floating around already, here's the article.
http://yaraon-blog.com/archives/78444


And not that it makes a difference, but they manage to shit on to GSD to this very day and even have their memes about it
http://blog.livedoor.jp/gundam2ch/archives/51819534.html
http://srkon.doorblog.jp/archives/46108681.html
http://blog.livedoor.jp/glintbooster/archives/47907550.html
http://blog.livedoor.jp/glintbooster/archives/47651319.html
http://blog.livedoor.jp/glintbooster/archives/48842567.html
http://blog.livedoor.jp/glintbooster/archives/48071716.html
http://blog.livedoor.jp/glintbooster/archives/48415063.html
http://blog.livedoor.jp/glintbooster/archives/43438464.html
http://blog.livedoor.jp/glintbooster/archives/43205159.html
http://blog.livedoor.jp/glintbooster/archives/42614833.html
http://blog.livedoor.jp/glintbooster/archives/49421016.html


Kira is sarcastically refereed to as Brigadier and fucking NOBODY likes Athrun. People literally reference his lines as jokes and are constantly making fun of him switching sides all the time
http://blog.livedoor.jp/glintbooster/archives/44612944.html

>>15677949
Athrun sullied the Savior Gundam.

>>15677808

And don't forget the TV broadcast they forgot to change Freedom into Strike Freedom when it was dodging the DRAGOON beams just like when Impulse turned into Strike early on

>>15677911
It was really weird because we already established that this was a universe with clones. Clones of Mwu's direct familial relations, even, his dad had one. Instead of Mwu somehow miraculously surviving getting blown up by antimatter, just have Neo be a clone of Mwu and defect due to some vague "genetic memory" nonsense allowing him to feel Mwu's affection for the cast.

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>>15678043
I think the worst part is WHY
You seriously couldn't think of any other character? Were you really regretting killing off Mwu to the point that you actually brought him back?

If Mwu is so important that Djibril oversaw his revival and brainwashing, why is he just some random MS leader in the Phantom Pain? Shouldn't he be using who he is as propaganda? And if the answer is "they don't know who Mwu is", then the question is why they'd waste their time recovering him.

On that note, doesn't Mwu have to atone for his various crimes? Does he not remember leading three saplings to have their minds washed and hypnotized on the regular?

It's funny, because on GEAR Fighter Dendoh, something happens to a similar character, and he feels really bad about all of the things he's done and planet's he's helped ruin, but here on SEED Destiny, it's like "Hey! Mwu's back!"

>>15677949

Could you go through some of the memes?

>>15678057
>On that note, doesn't Mwu have to atone for his various crimes?

I mean that's really the big issue. Even if you try and say he's not responsible because mind control or whatever he should still feel some personal responsibility or at least revulsion at being forced to do such a thing. He's the butcher of berlin until he joins Kira again and it's all forgiven like he stiffed you on a lunch check

>>15678057
forget about brainwashing the extendeds, he basically lets the Destroy loose on Germany which proceeds to massacre everyone in sight. As the commander he is responsible for war crimes, but nope, as soon as he "remembers" it's OMG Mwu is back! here put on the Orb uniform and suddenly all your crimes are forgotten .

>>15678057
>MILF Char's hair was a wig covering up the goofiest shit blue hair
I fucking hate that show. I slogged through that damn thing and that's my reward, can't even believe it.

>>15678057
Mwu's a pretty cool guy, I'd forgive him

>>15678554

Well that's the thing. It's not matter of forgiveness. If the story wanted to go "Mind control, you're not at fault" that's fine but at least address it. Maybe he's super pissed off about being used to do it, maybe he feels guilty. The issue isn't that he was absolved the issue is that no one cared

>>15677631
>Spends the entire series brainwashing Shinn to hate Kira,

That didn't happen. Rey didn't act like that until AFTER Freedom was first destroyed.

>>15677949
I find it funny that people over here sometimes bitch about how we still whine about Destiny to this day. Everyone still whines about Destiny to this day. It was that bad.

>>15678566

There's really nobody TO care.

Kira and AA crew don't actually know his story. Just that he was somehow working with EA after "dying" and he was a Windam pilot in Berlin. They've got no idea he was the one controlling the Extendeds, or even about the Extendeds at all. If Kira knew a brainwashed scared little girl was piloting Destroy he'd probably try to save her too instead of kill her.

Meanwhile Shinn never encounters him again. As far as he knew Neo Roanoke died in Berlin.

Mwu does get a quick scene where he looks sad and flashes back to hanging out with the 3 extendeds which I guess is supposed to be he feels guilty as far as Morosawa was concerned.

Really though, there wasn't much he could have done. Neo was just a glorified mouthpiece for Djbril, and all of the Earth stationed people he worked with hated him so it's not like him refusing Djbril would work and he had no allies to mutiny with.

If he steps out of line Djbril has someone kill him and take over and the Extendeds are rebrainwashed to forget all about Neo and think this new guy was their new boss to be loyal too.

Sure enough Sting is retrieved and reprogrammed and put in a Destroy even though Neo was gone by then. Berlin would have happened regardless.

Mwu La Flaga certainly never willingly decided to serve Djbril and Logos.

Someone once suggested the theory that Rey had the Ultimate Coordinator being an inheriently bad person and Rey being Rau drilled into him by Rau and Durandal so much that actually talking to Kira for the first time and Kira's response telling him he's not doomed to be Rau completely mentally floored him since it was the last thing he ever expected Kira Yamato to tell him.

Then he followed him in only to hear Kira giving a similarly positive speech to Durandal, proving that he wasn't just saying that to mess with Rey's head but really meant it, and thus Rey has his crazy crying shooting Durandal fit.

>>15678645

HE KNEW. It should have some effect on him being personally responsible for hundreds if not thousands of deaths

SEED and SEED Destiny are the best Gundam shows.

>>15678655
That makes no goddamn sense. No way no how someone with a zealous belief will wholeheartedly believe a hated enemy like that no matter what they say or do because (the usual dismissal is) "they're just trying to trick me, the devious bastards", or something along those lines. Furthermore, Kira's speech to Durandal is not positive, he outright admits that he hasn't bothered his backside trying to come up with a solution for the underlying racial tension and that he just intends to beat people into submission if they voice their discontent, which is hardly any more positive that what Durandal was selling.

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Mwu survived most likely weeks floating in mid space. What did Fukuda mean by this?

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>>15678858
>SEED: derivative nonsense, and shit after Freedom is introduced
>Destiny: derivative and shit in every way from the get go
>ACRONYMS (annoying compound revolting objectionable nasty yaoi-pandering morosawa sayings)
>hiraiface at it's worst
>stupid and dumb in general
Go, and never darken this board again.

>>15677631
>people are still complaining about Destiny
>2017

>>15679082

It's so fucking bad I still cannot comprehend how they could have farted something better out of their asses.

>>15679107
>could not have farted

>>15679082
It's like when you go back to your hometown after a long time and everything is still the same. Everytime I come here, there's at least one SEED/Destiny thread. I wouldn't have it any other way, personally.

>>15679147
Same for me. It's nice.

>>15678905

It means there was zero plans for Destiny when they made Seed's finale. It never even occured to anyone that they'd get a sequel.

Once they did they were instantly kicking themselves for killing him off and promptly retconned him back. Why they decided they just couldn't do a Seed show without him I don't know.

If Seed was stand alone like they originally planned he'd have stayed dead.

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>>15679469
Nah wrong, you know what it means?
He's the man who makes the impossible possible

>>15679477

I wouldn't show my face around here Fukuda.

Now that Abicion voodooed your wife you're probably next on his list.

>>15678043
I always thought that they just recovered what they could of Mu and used cloning technology to help rebuild him (think ME2's Lazarus Project), all because they knew his spatial awareness was a rare ability and they wanted to keep it.

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>>15679530

Why didn't they mass clone him then and field a massive army of funnel users?

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>>15678905

>>15679541
And have more of them turn into genocidal Raus for similar reasons as the clone father?

If he was a clone, he was probably a prototype to check for stability.

>>15679545
>TFW no illusive man but with protecting Naturals

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>>15679530

>>15679541
Good question. All I can surmise is that Blue Cosmos weren't too keen on the idea of it, thinking it no better than just making their own Coordinators. They wanted Mu with his skills intact, as well.

>>15679559
Wouldn't the Illusive Man be a Coordinator supremacist though? But advocating more Ultimate Coordinators, as well as forcefully turning Naturals into artificial Coordinators as well as force-breed Naturals and Coordinators?

I mean, his whole thing was Human supremacy, and the black ops projects they do was all towards making humans strong enough to be the alpha race, so it would stand to reason that he'd be more of a Coordinator supremacist.

But I could what you mean with a Natural-bent Illusive Man, since the EA group as a whole does most of what Cerberus did, as far as augments, brainwashing, terror attacks, and a similar level of species fanaticism.

>>15679586
Honestly you have a good point about being a coordinator supremacist. I think it'd be neat either way though.

>>15678136
-They make fun of people's lines (remember how Lacus said she was giving Kira a "new sword"?
-Kira is sarcastically refereed to as Brigadier General. "Even though Strike Freedom has to place it's railguns, beam rifles and beam sabers on the same rack, it's no problem for the Brigadier General!"
-Making fun of stock footage;
-Athrun's lines and alliances are made fun of "Shin! The Chairman is going to end Golden Week!" "Shin! Kira isn't the enemy!" "Shin! Kira is the enemy!"
-Doing a count of how many times Blitz Gundam has appeared in both series
-Joking about the final battle being epic
あの児童誌イラストよりボロボロになるとか誰が予想してただろう > Who would have expected that it would be more dreadful that child magazine illustration, referring to this >>15677752
-That collection of characters getting pissed off at the Archangel's antics from SRW Z? People pass that around from time to time.


Look through the threads I posted through Google Translate or something. I mean, GSD still sold well, but the nerds posting on the internet about it are pretty much the same as here.

>>15677953
It got what it deserved, trying to fight the Freedom.

>>15679583

>Blue Cosmos weren't too keen on the idea of it, thinking it no better than just making their own Coordinators.

Considering that they have their own modified human projects (Boosted Men and Extended), using Combat Coordinators, and what not I'm not sure if they really have the purported moral highground

>>15679813
But those are under their control; like beasts. They're less than human, therefore are not considered human. Just tools of war!

>>15679813
Yes, but the Boosted Men and Extendeds are just people that have been conditioned, not people that they created. They seem willing to openly do anything but creating their own Coordinators, so maybe cloning is seen as too similar for them.

>>15677730
>We're obviously not going to let Kira get blood on his hands, so let's have Rey do it.

What? Kira killing Minerva crew members was a subplot in this show. If they wanted to keep Kira's hands clean that shouldn't have been in there. The whole point of Rey shooting is that the one who unquestionably believed in Gil turns against his plan.

>Why does Shinn believe in the Destiny Plan?

Who said he did? He stuck around because his best friend who was dying asked him to. Not too hard to figure out.

>Athrun somehow manages to repeat the same cycle he did in the last series, spends most of his time with the new cast moping about by himself, and is a massive hypocrite

Athrun gets angry at Shinn for trying to play the hero and be the first one to let the refugees out. He also gets angry at Shinn for falling for the same cycle of revenge he and Kira got caught up in last show.

And yes, Athrun is indecisive because he never really resolved his problems from last show. All that happened was Cagalli said to him "stop running". Up until that moment he was willing to commit suicide out of misplaced guilt for his father.

Honestly, why are so many critics of Destiny so terrible at attacking it? I swear, 95% of you parrot what the guy before you said with very incomplete knowledge or memory of the show.

>>15680920
>What? Kira killing Minerva crew members was a subplot in this show.

It was a dropped subplot that went nowhere. Athrun brought it up to Kira and nothing came of it. Talia mentioned it in 28 when she declared the Archangel as enemies and that was it. Athrun never brought it up again and nobody gave a fuck later on.

>Who said he did? He stuck around because his best friend who was dying asked him to. Not too hard to figure out.

Shinn was going along with the plan long before Rey revealed he was sick.

>Athrun gets angry at Shinn for trying to play the hero and be the first one to let the refugees out. He also gets angry at Shinn for falling for the same cycle of revenge he and Kira got caught up in last show.

That's not what happened at all. Shinn saw fleeing slaves being shot trying to reunite with their families and snapped. He basked in the glory afterwards but he didn't initially do it to be a hero. Athrun got pissed because Athrun is a poor character who can't get his motives right. He never even tried to develop a relationship with Shinn. He just moped around on the MInerva and expected Shinn to go along with whatever he said later on after he defected.

Shinn wasn't following any cycle of revenge. Shinn was hurt over what happened to his family but Athrun didn't give a fuck. Athrun didn't even talk to Shinn about a cycle of revenge when Shinn was studying the Freedom. He just kept saying that Kira wasn't the enemy. He didn't try and explain shit. He just expected Shinn and Rey to believe what he said despite never trying to talk to them all series. Athrun had no relationship with the rest of the Minerva crew.

>>15680920
You're trying to compare Kira killing faceless NPCs to him personally shooting Gilbert.
Your answer to what the Destiny Plan means to the old new main character is "Rey told him it was cool, I guess?" That's pretty much the same as saying he's there just because, rather than writing in why he'd think it's something worth fighting for or he'll, how he's even been tricked into doing anything about it. Does Shinn even mention Rey once to Athrun?

You revisionists slay me. I mean for fuck's sake, you're complaining about critics, and you're throwing down the concept of Shinn being in on the Destiny Plan because Rey asked nicely and you don't think there a little something shallow about it?

>>15680920
>>15681262
While I'm at it, they didn't even know that the base was there, Shinn found it by accident. Athrun was mad because he wasn't listening and goes on about following orders. Which is fine until he proofs to be a massive hypocrite about it.

Also everyone forgets that two ZAFT subs were counting on their protection get shot down by the Abyss because of everyone's lack or coordination. It's never brought up again, even as Athrun is berating Shinn

>>15680973
>Shinn was hurt over what happened to his family but Athrun didn't give a fuck. Athrun didn't even talk to Shinn about a cycle of revenge when Shinn was studying the Freedom. He just kept saying that Kira wasn't the enemy. He didn't try and explain shit. He just expected Shinn and Rey to believe what he said despite never trying to talk to them all series. Athrun had no relationship with the rest of the Minerva crew.

I always figured that was kind of the point. Athrun's personal demons and issues ruined him.

He tried to eat his cake and have it too (join Zaft and fight EA under his own name while Orb stayed neutral and Kira and Cagalli weren't involved) so he wouldn't have deal with any of his problems. And every time something goes wrong he just mopes and angsts rather than resolve to do anything.

He doesn't know how to handle anything and he's too busy moping about his daddy and Cagalli issues to bother getting involved with Shinn. And when he finally does get motivated and his head on straight (namely that he still believes in the ideals of Orb and the TSA and wants to be with them even though that won't heal his daddy pain.) it's too late.

His failure to communicate with Shinn means that when he really really needs Shinn to listen to him when it comes to not fighting Kira, and especially not killing him Shinn doesn't want to hear it because Athrun failed to bond with him earlier and Rey who carefully made sure to always tell Shinn what he wanted to hear has his hooks in him.

If it wasn't for the grace of Kira and Lacus Athrun would have died in a watery grave by the hand of the guy that he could have been a great mentor too because of his own failings and short sightedness and desire to bottle up his feelings.

>>15681262
Do I really need to point out the obvious worried face Shinn has whenever he talks to Durandal in the final few episodes? It's obvious Shinn is torn up about the Destiny plan and destroying Orb but can't bring himself to do anything about it. If you didn't catch that then you simply weren't paying attention.

>>15681477
Yeah, Destiny does not say kind things about Athrun's character. He abandons Cagalli when she needs him most, is a pretty ineffective mentor aside from a handful of conversations, and is still haunted by his father despite it having nothing to do with him.

>>15681477
>If it wasn't for the grace of Kira and Lacus Athrun would have died in a watery grave by the hand of the guy that he could have been a great mentor too because of his own failings and short sightedness and desire to bottle up his feelings.

This is why I didn't really feel as bad as a lot of people did when Lacus coerced Athrun to get in the Infinite Justice. He owed them a pilot at the very least.

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>>15681490
That makes as much sense as if Detective Conan had a chater where he figures out who the criminal is by looking at the reactions on someone's face during talking about a crime being committed. They don't do that.

See, the thing is, your "he was worried about it!" idea might make more sense if during his spanking by Athrun, there's no mention, or hinting about the concept that he's doubting himself over the Destiny Plan. All he does is shout to Athrun about how he's a tratiror and how he's gonna get him, nothing he says has anything to do with the Destiny Plan. Even when Lunameria, the new center and love of his life appears, not terribly interested in fighting anymore, Shinn doesn't stop for a moment to get his chance to get embarrased again by Athrun. So where is this doubt you're talking about?

Let's review based on what you said. Shinn decided that he was going to be on board with the Destiny Plan because Rey asked him too (after talking to him on what, episode 48?), totally showed that he was doubting being part of such a thing, and then in the fight, rages, screams and cries, none of the aforementioned themes mentioned or hinted at all You see how these things don't flow into each other?

This is what we call a contribution. This is what happens when you try to apply retroactive writing to explain the lack of showing some important information.

>>15681477
>If it wasn't for the grace of Kira and Lacus Athrun would have died in a watery grave by the hand of the guy that he could have been a great mentor too because of his own failings and short sightedness and desire to bottle up his feelings.

Well, let's not forget that before that, Kira completely destroyed his mobile suit more so than he did anybody else on screen. Athrun could have fucking drowned and died right there, and what, would they have said "opps?" if they found out he died?

>>15683228
>Athrun could have fucking drowned and died right there, and what, would they have said "opps?" if they found out he died?

Shinn should have yelled that over the radio during their fight in 34. We already know they can communicate with each other as shown in 32 when Kira yells at Shinn. If Shinn lied to Kira and said that he killed Athrun, Kira would have had a mental breakdown.

>>15683228
>Well, let's not forget that before that, Kira completely destroyed his mobile suit more so than he did anybody else on screen. Athrun could have fucking drowned and died right there, and what, would they have said "opps?" if they found out he died?

I just accept the fact that Kira is perfectly able to control his attacks so that he knows with certainty nobody will die unless he wills it.

And sure enough Athrun wasn't even remotely injured to the point where Shinn criticises him for acting depressed when Luna was also downed and seriously hurt while Athrun was fine.

It's no more a stretch than some capehero character being able to beat the shit out of someone and never kill them accidentally with a freak hit.

>>15683242

That's not really something Shinn would be able to work out. He never really seems to catch on or care that Kira and Athrun were friends, and he also doesn't seem to realize that Kira disables because he doesn't want people to die (he seems to think it's cause he's toying with them or something)

Shinn is totally oblivious to Kira's true nature.

>>15683261
>(he seems to think it's cause he's toying with them or something)
It's a pretty vain and contemptuous act either way, so it's not as if he's not totally off base about his mindset, if not his conscious intent.

>I just accept the fact that Kira is perfectly able to control his attacks so that he knows with certainty nobody will die unless he wills it.
The way you phrased that was slightly disconcerting. Anyway, there is evidence that contradicts this. He shot to disable on Hiene, who then died anyway because he was incapacitated in the middle of a raging battle.
>It's no more a stretch than some capehero character being able to beat the shit out of someone and never kill them accidentally with a freak hit.
With regards to his own attacks perhaps. With regards to environmental factors not so much.

>>15683367
>The way you phrased that was slightly disconcerting. Anyway, there is evidence that contradicts this. He shot to disable on Hiene, who then died anyway because he was incapacitated in the middle of a raging battle.
That's a crock of shit because Kira cut off Heine's Gouf's arm, resulting in weapons loss, not mobility loss.

Afterward, Heine was seething in anger about losing an arm and drifted into the path of Stellar. Why the fuck do people blame Kira for his death when Heine chose to hover in the middle of a battle after getting attacked and wasn't paying attention to anything moving around and behind him?

>>15683459

Funny thing that. The exact same thing would have happened even if Kira just dodged and left Heine intact since the arm had nothing to do with him sneaking up on Kira from behind only to get Stella smashed.

On the other hand Kira does tend to assume that anyone disabled will go Oh noes I'm been defeated and instantly run away, which isn't always the case.

>>15683467
>On the other hand Kira does tend to assume that anyone disabled will go Oh noes I'm been defeated and instantly run away, which isn't always the case.
Most of them definitely can't run away.

Who knows how many of those pilots have perished in space after getting their machines torn to shreds? In the episode that the Strike Freedom was revealed, that's three ships and 25 MS stranded in the middle of nowhere, crippled and running out of air.

>>15683228
Shows don't use facial expressions to convey character's thoughts? Are you serious?

Look, Shinn has the shakey eyes that look like they're going to cry and everything. Now either A. He's worried about the Destiny Plan, or B. he's worried about something else. Unless you have a better idea of what he's worried about, you have no argument. You're just saying that they animated his face and eyes that way for no reason at all.

And do you really expect him to show all this doubt in the face of the enemy? When it's life and death? Of course he's not going to display doubts! He's going to shout whatever justification he needs to do his job. You can't expect every character to shout out loud every little thing they feel in their heart. If they did, that would make for a poor show.

>>15683488
All suits have thrusters on their backs. Any suits disabled in outer space can easily make it back to safety. Stop spouting bullshit.

stella is shinn's sister confirmed.

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Is there any defense for Mwu coming back in Destiny?

>>15687179
Sure, they deleted that scene.

>>15677631
Yes, yes. SEED is crap. We all know. Move along.

>>15687179
None.

>>15677631
>I'm sorry for questioning your teachings, Father Yamato

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>>15683524
No, are YOU serious?
There's a large disconnect from what is supposedly his reason for going for the Destiny Plan, how he feels about it, and what's actually shown, which is him shouting and freaking about about Athrun being a horrible traitor. Like I said. I could easily show you a picture of someone with a certain expression and SAY "this is how character feels!", and be wrong about it. What's important is what we're actually shown, either by how the character acts or what they say.

I posted Sakura because I was going to go into her character, but fuck it, Tekkaman Blade (with heavy spoilers)

In the series, D-Boy is forced to become a Tekkaman and stop the Radam invasion of Earth, and as luck would have it, many of the other Tekkaman are members of his family/people close to him from the space voyage. Over the course of the series, D-Boy goes through many trials/suffering AND as it turns out, his body is breaking down. He undergoes an "operation" to fix that, but instead, now it's his mind that's breaking down to the point that he forgot how to properly transform until told by another member.

With that, D-Boy takes Aki to his old house, and starts rummaging through the old things in his house, and visiting the rooms of his family members, making casual conversation about his family Aki is NOT happy about this, and she's wondering (As the viewer probably is), why he's going there and making himself suffer and finds it hard to watch.

After digging up a time capsule from his brother that says "We'll always be friends!", D-Boy starts wailing. Aki asks why he's doing this to himself, and he says that "at least I can still cry/haven't forgotten about my family members". Because if he remembers that much, he can remember how much HE FUCKING HATES THE RADAM FOR RUINING HIS LIFE. Aki is forlorn that she can't help him, but D-Boy tells her that her being there for him is good enough.

>>15692465
Eventually, D-Boy fights his brother, kills him, and right before he dies, discovers that his family members have been mind controlled by the Radam to do their bidding without completely erasing their personalites. Needless to say, he's very, very upset about this.

Aki shows up, and runs towards him passionately, and asks him to let her see his face once more. He tells her "D-Boy and Takaya Aiba are dead! I'M TEKKAMAN BLADE!" and shoves off towards the moon, consumed with fury.

You know D-Boys personality. characterization, everything he's just been through, the motive as to why he would go to his house when there's nothing good waiting for him, and why he would shun Aki, the character who cares about him the most at a moment like that. I don't have to fucking ask questions about it, because we're shown the characters thought process and motivations without having to be explicitly told directly by the characters or the director.


I can show you pictures od D-Boy smiling, but the thing is, I can't really draw a "this is totally his motivation/why he's doubting himself" without having to analyze his character, personality and what's going on at the moment like you're trying to tell me with Shinn.

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>>15692491
Do you see why I'm stating there's a disconnect between the idea of "he's fighting for Rey's sake!" "he kinda doubts the Destiny Plan" and what we're shown "ATHRUN, YOU MOTHERFUCKING TRAITOR!"?

Because we're not really shown how those things lead up to one another. The ZAFT characters rarely discuss the Destiny Plan between themselves, and go along with it...just because. Rey doesn't say anything about the fact that he's a clone of Rau to Shinn until episodes 47/48. I don't seem to recall the conversation as to where Shinn says he'll fight for Rey, and even if it's there, that's not really good characterization.
Just because Shinn is wearing a certain expression doesn't mean much if it's when he's being told something extremely critical if we don't see him ACT on those said doubts that are supposedly there.

None of that shit comes up when he's "fighting" Athrun, and their entire dialogue is "Fuck you Athrun" "Shinn, you're a big dummy". Shinn doesn't have a character anymore past episode 39 in this series, as a result of being shunned for Kira and Athrun to steal back the show, and even in these small scenes, they can't be assed to try and write how he'll act during the final conflict.

There's a reason why to this very day that people still ask these questions about this series.There's a reason why Shinn's voice actor says he likes the SRW Z version of the character better. Because the series is full of sloppy writing and characterization that to try and justify why certain characters are acting a certain way, we have to result to retroactive writing.

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>>15692518
People keep bringing up the SRW (which is basically licensed fanfiction), because the series actually bothers writing a character for the boy.

Unlike in the series, there's a fucking support cast for the character to rely on (and actually lead him, rather than stand around moping alone all day), and while they'll try to help him out, they're not just going to take his shit lying down.
There's an honest look at the concept of jumping into battles and shooting at whoever you're not happy with.
There's an honest attempt at writing as to why he'd go along with Gilbert on the Destiny Plan by setting up shit up beforehand throughout the game, OR as way he'd stick around with ZEUTH instead, instead of just muting his character to ZAFT "Ace" Attack Dog

Do you know what happens when Shinn takes out the Freedom in this game? Despite his good friends, Setsuko and Kamille spurring him on to not let his hatred get the better of him while fighting it, he admits that's exactly what he did!


What doesn't happen is having a stupid slap/spite fight with Athrun about it. I could keep going on and on about it, but the point is, there's actual writing here where it's not in the series and that's why people like it so much better.

>>15692518
You think Shinn's thoughts were merely badly communicated then. And since you don't have a explanation as to why Shinn's eyes shake and he looks upset when people are talking about the Destiny plan, your argument isn't that my interpretation is wrong. It's that this was improperly communicated in the show, with not enough shown. One could make an argument for this, although it's a bit hard to debate either way since it's highly subjective. What constitutes "enough info" will vary from person to person.

One last thing. You seem to be stuck on the idea that because Shinn went crazy at Athrun there's no way he could be going through self-doubt. I find this utterly absurd. It's very common for people losing faith in their ideals or leaders to become more and more fanatic to them. One need only look at another Gundam series, Age, for an example of this. (Yes, not the best show in the world, but it's not devoid of all writing ability)

The char clone Zeheart believes in the Vagan idea of Eden, which involves creating paradise on Earth through largely genocidal means. By the end of the show he pretty much knows this isn't a good idea, constantly and explicitly showing doubt. Yet he goes ape shit in his final battle with his rival and childhood friend, and gets beaten down in roughly similar way as to Shinn got destroyed by Athrun. It's only after the battle has ended that he expresses any regret to his old friend, the same way Shinn does to Lunamaria, crying on her shoulder.

>>15692575
Don't forget everyone calls Kira the fuck out throughout the game such as moments like him stabbing the Destroy after Shinn more or less had it under control

>>15692465
Goddamn this post just makes me wanna watch Tekkaman Blade all over again
That was a real fucking gut punch of a show

>>15692575
Fanfiction is fanfiction.
At the end of the day, it means nothing.

>>15693409
Then fuck you: I'll call SEED/Destiny Universal Century fanfiction.
And as typical of fanfiction, it's badly made and has the typical overpowered self-inserts (who can do no wrong!) and bullshit powerups.
That they're official series is a black mark on the franchise as a whole, and liking anything apart from the mechanical design means you've got shit taste and must leave the board _immediately_.

>>15693409
Except when it's written infinitely better than what it's representing.

>>15693456
>liking anything apart from the mechanical design means you've got shit taste
What about the music? Consensus seems to be that some of that is pretty good.

>>15693638
Haha, sure buddy.

>>15692575
Does anyone even have a translated script of SRW Z somewhere? Or is just something people hear about and then repeat mindlessly?

>>15694439
There's a translated playthrough on somethingawful.

>idiots still believe Shinn wasn't always intended to be a fallen hero

>>15694653
Ah, thank you. Will definitely take a look.

>>15694685
Considering they failed to ever even establish him as a hero I find that hard to believe

>>15695687
Suzumura has gone on the record saying Shinn's development wasn't what they originally had planned when he signed up, and the SRW Z version is closer to what this hypothetical Shinn was supposed to be. This is why he considers that version of Shinn to be the legit one, at least in his heart.

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>>15694439
I've (unfortunately) been around the GSD discussion block for longer than I'd like to have been. I've come to fucking loathe heresy about GSD
https://lparchive.org/Super-Robot-Wars-Z/Update%20153/
https://lparchive.org/Super-Robot-Wars-Z/Update%20159/
CTRL+F "of hate" to find the parts I mentioned
>>15693387
I'm going to assume that you're purposely being obtuse. When was the last time you actually watched it?

I went back and looked.
-They don't discuss the Destiny Plan until Episode 48/50. Shinn says that not everyone is going to accept it, Rey goes on about Gilbert leading everyone to a bright future, and other crap until he starts dying. Nowhere does he say that he's going to fight on Rey's behalf.
-Gilbert and Rey talk about "the bloody history of humanity" and other crap, and Shinn goes "dah...okay!" If anything, it seems more like he's been tricked into doing this, but ultimately, he's just on the ride, just because.
-Shinn fights Athrun, shouting about him attacking Lunameria and how he's a triator and that's it. He's just there to be the badguy/notch on I-Justice's belt, because there's nothing else for them to use, because that's the stock footage they've got, and animating a half-decent ending would cost them time and money, they don't fucking have! At no point does he show any of this hesitation or doubt you're lying to yourself about.

There isn't anything that you've just wrote that is implied to be true in Gundam SEED Destiny. And that's why people hate it. It's a poorly written, poorly executed, poorly animated show that had some potential, but squandered it because of mishandling by the producer and head-writer.

I mean, shit. Yzak and Dearka literally jump at the chance to jump ship to fight for the Eternal, just because they're old characters, and we can't have them get beaten up. All the old cast to one side, so we can tear down the new cast. Make sure nobody actually has to talk about why they're down with the Destiny Plan.

>>15696101
> Kamille says they need to put down warmongers, then tells Shinn to take out the Freedom.

my sides.

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>>15694685
Even if that's the case, it's poorly written
>>15696101
The difference between the debacle that happened to Shinn and Zeheart is
GSD: Shinn swiftly loses any of his independence, what passed off as characterization or thought process to just being there when ZAFT needs to smash stuff. Depending on if Kira/Athrun are around, he's raging unreasonable beserkerk, or the hero
There's no abject or good reason for why he's suddenly an incompetent minor character other than "just because," that's the way things are. After episode 45, we don't see him fight until the last episode, and he's not even IN episode 47.
Not to mention, his name is now third in the credits. At the supposed crux of the series, he basically is told what to think about the plan, and never says anything significant in the final battle.

AGE: Zeheart has been on board for fighting for the Vegans for two generations at this point, and wholly believes in the idea that what the Vegans are doing is right and just. After being reawakened, he is told about the Eden Project, and he cops to it immediately, and eventually has that leadership thrown on his shoulders despite people thinking he's not worthy. Eventually, he has to make a big decision that means that manny of his people will die in the process. Thinking that things must go forward, no matter the costs, he goes forward with it... and it fails. He flips his lid, goes out to fight against the SUPER PILOT and loses badly (until the movie re-edit)


Even with as poorly paced as AGE was, something like that...makes sense! A zealot watching the world crumble around him because of interlopers and his poor decision making, something that the series showed that he believed in, despite his many choices to not have to or to jump ship when he had the chance.
GSD doesn't DO that for Shinn, he's just there to be beaten by Athrun because the stock footage says so.

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>>15696111
It doesn't help that the Freedom got in their way in the last mission, and that while they were under fire by the EA trying to keep their hidden child solider slaughter house safe, Freedom shows up and starts shooting at them.
>>15696125
Also, Gundam AGE's special movie, changed the blow out into an exciting battle, in which Zeheart loses anyway. Look ,not every story has to be the same, and sometimes, you can watch someone "lose" without there being much of a fight or even a fight in general and have it be great.
But for my part, I don't want to watch that shit in this fucking toy commercial unless you can pull it off really well. Zeheart's mobile suit asskicking happened because they literally didn't have time for him, which is one of AGE's biggest problems, it's poor pacing.


Look, it's not about "muh Shinn didn't win". It's about the fact that it's a poorly written pile of crap. If this was an decent story about an anti-hero, that's fine, but that's not what happens on screen, it's just a retroactive justification as with many parts of GSD are explained away as. Shinn and the entire new cast was thrown in the trash because they didn't know what they were doing, and had to to default to established old characters to pull them out of their jam.

GSD is the only series, the ONLY Gundam series where you can hear the voice actors mention something about SOMETHING being wrong with how things turned out. and it shows.
If you like it, fine. But don't make lame excuses for it.

>>15696160
Didn't Cagalli's VA swear off the character because of how she felt she was mistreated by Morosawa or something

>>15696170
That's something that's been stated, but never officially confirmed.

Kira was always the main protagonist of SEED Destiny, even from the beginning.

>>15696170

I think she finally reprised her role in a somewhat recent SRW, so.

>>15680920
>replying to pasta

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>>15680920
>>15697042
Yes, I'm quite sure that's just the more copypasta about the Gundam SEED and not a post someone wrote for the thread