For what reason would a fighter pilot willingly give up the advantages

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>>15618173
you cant take covers on the sky, realismfags

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>>15618173
Battroid mode is not exclusively meant for the ground.

Come to think of it, the very YF-29 you posted never even touched solid ground at any point outside of a hanger, if I'm not mistaken.

It's function is closer to a mobile suit; full 360 degree mobility in a vacuum and top maneuverability and attitude control in a gravity well. Ground combat functionality as an all-terrain vehicle is merely a happy side-effect of battroid mode.

Also, there's the issue of fighter mode being a...well, fighter, and thus limited in engagement options of ground targets whereas gerwalk allows the pilot a more practical close-range means of attack, and battroid opens the pilot up to various tactical maneuvers an infantry might take, such as taking cover behind an abandoned building, or just shooting a sumbitch up-close with maximum precision, not to mention the melee options if all else fails.

Because giant robots are cool.

>>15618173
Because they are essentially VTOL Tank/Fighters. Versatility.

>>15618186
> Clouds

Battroids were conceptualized for allowing humans to fight a war against 50 foot tall enemies.

A plane can't do a lot of things a battroid can do in that scenario.

>>15618205
Like infiltrating said enemy ship and wearing their uniform to blend in

>>15618173
Because it's a cartoon.

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>>15618218

>>15618173
It's culture so humans never forget who they are

Battroid is extremely specialised.

Note that they only use battroid for a few situations.
1. Melee
2. Tight spaces eg: Inside of a ship
3. Mobile turret(Gerwalk can fulfill this as well)

>>15618189
>Come to think of it, the very YF-29 you posted never even touched solid ground at any point outside of a hanger, if I'm not mistaken.
Didn't it crash land at the end?

>>15618173
So he can punch some giant alien in the face, of course.
Nothing quite like using the human form to BTFO some invader.

YF-29はバルキリーのユニコーンガンダム版でしょう、意味の分からない発言は愚かに見えます

>>15618173
Because it looks cool.

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>>15618173

Because it is insanely easier to land a battroid on a carrier than it is to land a fighter on a carrier

>>15618389
I thought gerwalk would be superior for that? It'd still have control surfaces to help it stabilize itself as opposed to only using feet and back thrusters.

>>15618173
I thought everyone already watched J-Decker here.

>>15618395
Can a gerwalk do a rad tactical roll landing

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>>15618173

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>>15618459
i thought every poster on /m/ has at least one robot toys

don't tell me you don't own any robot toy

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>>15618280
>all the grunts aren't changing and are getting their shit kicked in
>this guy is styling on Vajra

>>15618779

So who was that guy supposed to be, actually?

>>15618908

Does it matter? He was just a cool pilot, to demonstrate that NUNS isn't entirely useless (just mostly). He doesn't need a name.

>>15618908
His name is Diamond Leader

He was badass like Jegan Leader

>>15618189

The problem is all those moving parts necessary for humanoid mode and transforming would take so much space and weight it would be a shit fighter compared to pure fighters without those parts.

And "full 360 degree mobility" is literally pointless in environment with advanced missiles.

There is a reason why helicopters are not used for air superiority. Speed and climb rate are 10x more important than agility. It's like that since mid WW2.

>>15618779
Why do we not have a webm of this guy?

>>15618173
Because they wouldn't be /m/ otherwise.

>>15618553
Holy shit, that's such an inefficient design. That thing would just lock up mid-transformation if any single one of those parts experienced failure or blockage, which would be incredibly likely in a battle scenario. Zeta Gundam's transformation is much more efficient.

>>15618950
>VF
>weight
LaughingVFengines.jpg

>Speed and climb rate are 10x more important than agility.
They can escape Earth's gravity well under their own power and have thrust-weight ratios up to 50. I'm pretty sure they got the speed and climb rate down already.

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>>15618469

>>15618975
Zeta is the pinnacle of transformable MS. Literal sex on legs (and thrusters).

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>>15618959

Two, just for you.

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>>15618950

The extra weight of the transformable parts is negligible compared to a dedicated unit in Macross, especially with the thrust to weight ratio the units have. A non-transformable VF prototype VF-X weighed almost the same as the transformable VF-1. Even by the end of SDF Macross, units were getting upward of a thrust to weight ratio of 6:1 using super packs. By the next entry, Plus, they were hitting 15:1 or something, while Frontier and Delta have like 50:1 or 60:1.

>>15618173
muh robot

>>15618173

literally to fight giant aliens hand to hand and to take and hold ground

>inb4 'muh realism'

they're literally built with ancient alien tech, deal with it

>>15619068
50-60:1 is only for the prototypes like the YF-29 and the YF-30. Stuff like the VF-25 and 31 had TW ratios of around 40:1.

>>15619151
>>15619068


Can human beings even survive acceleration forces like that?

>>15619157
No, but the inertial dampening technology in Macross is super advanced.

>>15619157
Thats exactly the point of the ISC. Most of the time you're not going to be using the maximum instantaneous acceleration except when you're in combat situations. And when you do, the ISC
for the VF-25 is able to buffer up to 27.5gs for 120 seconds. The YF-29 further improves upon the ISC and increases the g limit to 30gs

>>15618908
Lieutenant Machida, from Frontier's Diamond Force.

>>15619157
That's why ISC and Ex-Gear exist. Alternatively, you can become a cyborg, like Brera, or just be an alien soldier bred to fight.

>>15619151

Are there details like thrust to weight for Delta units yet? I thought that there were still only basic details about the Delta units out as of yet. Then again, I mostly rely on Macross2 and the Macross Compendium for statistics like that.

>>15618173
lost the wings, low on fuel, stealth, recon, take a shit, and more.

>>15618173
That's not what battroid mode is for. It's for close-quarter combat inside Zentradi ships. Back before they figured out the "Omni-directional barrier + lolnukes = WIN" strategy they expected to have to fight guerilla-style in enemy spacecraft so they designed the robot mode to be able to open doors, operate elevators, use stairs, and hide in the bathroom and dress up in enemy uniforms.

Of course after they found out how fuckhuge the enemy fleet was, this strategy was pretty much off the table, so the fact that they keep building variable fighters decades later can only be explained by toy sales

>>15619582
I can see gerwalk still being somewhat useful for VTOL take offs/landings, but gerwalk really is quite useless in the current Macross meta, isn't it?

>>15619583
*battroid

>>15619534
You can calculate it from the basic information given. Just convert the engine kN output to kg and then divide that by the mass of the VF.

For example: SV-262hs has a pair of FF-2999/FC2 Stage IIG engines that outputs 1955 kN, as well as a 30% overboost functionality from its inbuilt "reheat" system. In total, thats 5083 kN of thrust. Converting that to kg would be 518321 kg. Divide that by its mass of 9810 kg gives you 52.83:1

VF-31 Siegfried (the customized ones used by Delta flight) has 2 FF-3001/FC2 Stage IIC engines outputing 1875 kN, along with a 15% overboost function from the Fold Wave System. This gives a total output of 4312 kN, which is converted to 439701 kg. Divide that by the individual mass of the various types (8533 kg for the J model) gives you 51:1

The VF-31A model, which doesn't have the FWS overboost, and packing less powerful engines comes out to 40:1

>>15619839
>FF-3001/FC2 Stage IIC engines outputing 1875 kN
This is the same engine as the YF-30 by the way, although it's interesting they have substantially lower performance vs the 30's 2110 kN of thrust per.

>>15619582
>the fact that they keep building variable fighters decades later can only be explained by toy sales
Or that VFs are pretty damn good as fighter/VTOL units that can go into battroid for wrestling with Zentradi(Still lots of them out there).

>>15619893
>FF-3001/FC2
If you take the 15% overboost into account, then the VF-31's engine is capable of a maximum of 2156.25 kN which compares favorably with the YF-30's engine.

Do we know if the 2110 kN figure for the YF-30's version of the engine is an absolute maximum that includes overboost, or a "normal", "non-emergency" maximum?

That said it's not unheard of for engines to vary in output according to tuning, fuel quality, and whatnot. If the VF-31 is the economy model that some people say it is, then it's no surprise that it might feature a detuned engine for better efficiency or operating lifetime.

If the pilot was a true man, and his opponent demanded they settle things by pugilism or wrestling.

>>15618553
That's pretty cool. I just want a VF-31A though.

should I watch the Macross Plus ovas or the movies?

>>15620146
I thought the movie was a bit better.
But there's not much of a difference either way.

>>15619839
I'm confused. Your math is entirely wrong (you don't convert kN to kg, that's a nonsense equation), and yet you got a result very close to the correct one. It should be 52.87, you're only 0.04 off. How odd.

>>15620428
kg = kN/(9.81*1000), though.

>>15620435
Scratch that, meant (kN*1000)/9.81

>>15620428
It looks like he was converting the newtons to kilograms-weight rather than the usual kilograms-mass, which is a valid conversion (just converting from one unit of force to another unit of force). His math checks out.

>>15620428
I converted the kN to kilograms-force, or kgf

>>15620146
If you're going to only watch one, the OVAs. The movie cuts a lot out, however it has a far better battle at the end.

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>>15618975
> Zeta
> Efficient

Transforming MS is even more retarded than a valkyrie's. Macross tech is stupidly advanced thet it can handwave transformations like the one shown in the webm. In Gundam, MS are already fragile as is, and a transforming suit makes it more structurally fragile.

Also transforming ms always look pants on head retarded

>>15618198
>Concealment = cover

>>15618189
Man I hate this overly dramatic camera zooming. It makes it so hard to tell what's actually happening in the fight so you have to amp up the directing to tell you that too.

Wrestling had the same problem for years. If you can't tell what's happening, artistic merit means nothing.

And all that unnecessary maneuvering and barrel rolling to be flashy, christ. So much of this is frame for frame identical to previous entries into Macross too, to the point where it may as well just be stock footage.

Why not try showing fluid combat properly?

>>15618173

tunnels.

/thread

When your enemy is not also airborne, you get stealth in the form of putting things between you and your opponent, as well as armor in the form of putting things between you and your opponent.

The best one of those things is the Earth, particularly its curvature.

There's also the fact that radar is virtually useless for detecting fast moving objects on the ground, due to the deflection noise introducing massive entropy.

If your enemy is employing land to air radar rather than air to air, it also allows you to advance on enemy positions without giving your own away.

Proximity to a target also means the distance you need to cover to escape their lockon is less, because their cone of vision can be traversed in a much shorter time as its physically smaller. A simple sharp acceleration and your enemy has to reorient their entire body to try and engage you - and ranged weapons might have a splash damage that would mean the weapon has a minimum lockon distance to not destroy the one firing. The easiest way to detonate a missile is also to trick it into a ground-strike using variable terrain -- because they can't travel at their full speed at lower altitudes due to collision risks. In the air, missiles are typically MUCH faster than aircraft.

It also gives you more energy to maneuver after losing altitude, the best air intake mix, pressure ratio for maximum acceleration, etc and if you have to suddenly stop, you have the option to do so without smashing into the terrain because your machine has big meaty shock absorbers and engines that can be ENTIRELY re-oriented and your thrust/weight ratio is fucking ludicrous - and GERWALK provides resistive thrust so the inertia of suddenly rushing for the desk doesn't carry you INTO the deck.

>>15619173

I'm guessing he's some random the production crew threw in for that one scene just for giggles and a throwback to M7?

Or did I miss something where fleets set aside trios of pilots and specifically name them Diamond Force?

>>15618915
It's a question worth asking, since he's the only grunt with this unique scene. They didn't even reuse it for stock footage.

>>15621369

They make bombs that can cause such a large explosion at the base of the tunnel that it sucks out all the air and kills everyone inside

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>>15621361
>Camera Zooming
It's just following the YF-29 and keeping it within the frame, and the YF-29 is flying close to/away from the camera's perspective. There is no complexity WHATSOEVER to that footage; any sort of spectacle is accomplished by the Itano-style Missile Circus and the YF-29's maneuvers. Same goes for the YF-27.

You are beholding the aerial equivalent of an extremely basic tracking shot. It looks similar to standard macross choreography because there is no advanced cinematic technique throughout the entire length of that webm (or this one, or even the entire franchise, really.) Pay attention to the missiles surrounding the YF-29 in this webm; the shot is moving at the same speed once it begins moving; Alto is slowing down at one point and speeding up, giving it the illusion that the camera is zooming in and out.

That's the beauty of the Itano circus; it's such a spectacle that any sort of advanced camerawork actually makes it harder to follow, so nobody ever bothers. If you are having trouble figuring out what's going on onscreen, the problem is you being too slow to follow it, not the actual cinematography.

>>15619992
The VF-31A Kairos at least are definitely stripped down versions of the YF-30 Chronos. In fact, the equipment on the Kairos wouldn't be wholly out of line with a mid-block upgrade VF-25 Messiah. Most of its stuff other than the beam gunpod are slightly upgraded or newer versions of the equipment already mounted on a Frontier era Messiah.

Alright, I'm going to ask here since it seems relevant enough and I'm not bothering with a thread on /wsr/ for something so simple.

Does anyone have any good pictures or artwork of the Durandal's Gunpod?

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>the multi purpose mission payload pods are hyped up to be the Next Big Thing™ in VF combat
>used like a total of two episodes, the rest is just pew pew beam gun crap

>>15624097
Lol it was a glorified beam gunpod holster for most of the series

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>>15624267
I know, it was so disappointing.