Why all the hate for Gundam Unicorn? It was a bit of a mess

>>15575424
Because the entire thing was an attempt to one-up the ending of CCA, which had already wrapped up everything important that we needed to see about Amuro, Char, and Zeon.

Unicorn is a cheap Force Awakens-style fanservicy cashgrab that tries to emulate and surpass its predecessor without understanding what made it stand out. For instance, the Axis Shock was a MIRACLE that resulted from an ACCIDENT, not a superpower that can be turned on and off. The entire show was tacky and unnecessary.

>>15575433

I actually agree. Basically, the Axis Shock is the apex for Newtypes, and it's more-or-less an Act of God. Amuro did the impossible, and it cost him everything.

It's like, that should have been where Universal Century shows end. Sort of a "After seeing this, somehow you know it's all going to work out in the end. Eventually."

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>>15575424
>The father-daughter moments between Zinnerman and Marida

Tell me, /m/ what are the chances of us ever getting anymore supplementary material about Marida and daddy'o?

Because it's extremely popular, and /m/ is contrarian as fuck.

>>15575424
Banagher and Marida are unbearable.

>>15575469
Anon you whut?

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>>15575424
Because it portrayed Zeon as honorable freedom fighters fighting against a Federation that apparently had always been as bad as the Titans and still was oppressing and terrorizing harmless, innocent Spacenoids in 0096

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Banana ruined everything

Why the fuck did the Federation rebuild Gryps 2? That's like giving GP02 a nuke and pretending it doesn't exist all over again.

And what happened to the colony laser after Unicorn?

>>15575482
>Because it portrayed Zeon as honorable freedom fighters fighting against a Federation that apparently had always been as bad as the Titans
That's how it is. Federation was never good. It only wants control over it's colonies, and is pretty merciless about it. Basically, one side wants independence (Zeon) and the other side wants to stay in control (EF). There is no way one can root for EF. The EF has shown on multiple occasions that it is no better than Zeon. So you got 2 sides that use cruel methods to achieve their ends, but Zeon's ends are actually decent, while EF is bunch of greedy old men, who want to secure their power and stop humanity from advancing.

>>15575482
>a Federation that apparently had always been as bad as the Titans and still was oppressing and terrorizing harmless, innocent Spacenoids in 0096
Nigga, did you not watch 08th, 0083, or ZZ? Federation was shit without Titans the whole time. Unicorn didn't change a thing.

>>15575482

Don't forget that SPACE JEWS were behind everything.

I mean, what the fuck? They're saying that the Space Rothchilds were blackmailing all of humanity?

>>15575517
>>15575521
t. Gihren

>>15575530
Nope, more like:
t. spacenoids

>>15575440
>and /m/ is contrarian as fuck
as opposed to what? /co/?

The problem is that characters are shit and plot is garbage.
When even super quality animation and Sawano OST can't save your show from the shihole of boring mediocrity, it shows that you really hit rock-bottom.

>>15575523
More like the Space Clintons which actually makes more sense now than it did when Unicorn was published and animated.

>>15575482
>>15575517
>>15575521
>>15575523
>retarded /pol/shits trying to force their memes into a Chink cartoon

>>15575575
So you think that the earth federation are the good guys?
Way to miss the whole point of Gundam.

>>15575424
Still better than felcher gundam

>>15575437
This, it was the best thing to come out of Unicorn alongside the fights.
I wish we could get something to tell us more about them, like a manga about how Zinnerman saved her and how they became so close.

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>>15575530
https://youtu.be/VaCpbwkNR0w

ZIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIICK ZEON

>>15575482
>>15575517
The whole point of the Federation is that it isn't a monolithic entity. It's a large, slow, democratic bureaucracy. It has all the same advantages and disadvantages to that one would expect in a postmodern view of that system.

By and large, they do not commit the more extreme war crimes that Zeon did. However they still do all the regular minor war crimes that many modern armies commit just as a fact of life. Their soldiers/officers are just as much a mixed bag as any army; some are heroes, some are basically criminals or even downright evil. So in some places of governance, the Federation can be quite kind and fair, or they can be oppressive or worse.

When such a bureaucracy finds itself misbehaving in some avenue, it is by nature difficult to change. Rule is stable, but if the rule slowly degrades then you have stable rot.

Hence, rebellion under an autocrat is fueled as people rally to the promise of easy change under a more centralized power structure, despite the risks associated with concentrating that power. In the case of the OYW they rallied behind Space Hitler.

People need to shut the fuck up with all the wank this wank that. If Fed or Zeek are every portrayed in a positive light, it's to show that some of them can be good or bad on both sides. That's the final message in all circumstances. We KNOW Feds are ultimately "the good guys" and Zeon are "the space nazis" so in order to subvert that and show the grey of reality, works tend to highlight those kinds of subversions more.

Nobody is trying to convince you Feds are actually evil or Zeeks are freedom fighters. Just that some Feds are evil, and some Zeeks are relatable, with the knowledge of their ultimate bend and past portrayals behind that.

Fuck I hate you babies that complain about this shit

>>15575690
>We KNOW Feds are ultimately "the good guys" and Zeon are "the space nazis"
It's more like the Feds are the great Britain and the Zeeks are the american colonies and this is War of Independence. If earth stoped being the center of power in the solar system, then everyone would have been alot happier. How can the feds be the good guys if their defeat would mean freedom and progress? Gundam is more about there being no good side, just good troops.
It's like Legend of the Galactic heroes, where one side desperately holds on to the idealistic portrayal of democracy (even though their democracy is shit and only a small group of good men fight for the right thing.), while the autocratic space nazis have a history of wrong doing, but currently have an enlightened monarch. In other words, they are both in the grey. If FPS wins, it's more shitty and not working democracy for everyone, while if the empire wins, then it's a gamble on the next emperor not being a madman. If you think about it, then both the Free Planets Alliance and the Earth federation are not the good guys. They may be more likeable and the focus of the show, but their victory is not a good thing.

>>15575756
What I mean by "we KNOW etc." (and I realize I wasn't being very clear, so my apologies) is that in MSG, originally, the portrayal was way more binary with Feds good and Zeeks bad.
There is some greyness in there even back then, but by and large we were originally told to believe that the Federation, despite its flaws, are the "good" side and we are meant to root for their victory, and there sure as fuck is nothing "enlightened" about the Zabis (but, pre-Origin, Zeon Deikun might have been considered enlightened).

It's only in later works that the postmodern narrative is inserted more distinctly and we're able to see more problems with the Federation. My point being that if people are perceiving Feddies "look bad" in recent works while Zeon look "like heroes" or some shit, it's not that they're trying to rewrite history. From a narrative perspective those themes (a bad Feddie, a good Zeon) are the most subversive when compared to the original presentation; that's why they take up dramatic focus.

>>15575475
Your point being? I just can't stand them and their wishy-washy self-righteousness. The show skews the entire universe to heed their wishes, so much it almost becomes a Disney Gundam (with an obligatory Disney princess too) fairytale.

>>15575424

I still don't really know what it was about. The only way to open up a locked box with a secret document in it was to build a special Gundam, genetically alter your kid, and have him fly that Gundam all over the world having battles at the exact right time and place to get the code to... something?

Also after like decades of violent war and murder why would the Federation OR Zeon suddenly care about charters anyways?

>>15575892
>Also after like decades of violent war and murder why would the Federation OR Zeon suddenly care about charters anyways?
Exactly. It's just some ancient scribblings at this point in time. I would imagine there would be a big scientific debate whether they are the real thing and that's it.

>>15575897
>>15575892
>>Also after like decades of violent war and murder why would the Federation OR Zeon suddenly care about charters anyways?
Mostly because it would proove that the earth federation is full of shit and totally discredit them.

>>15575897
Ancient scribblings that are so irrelevant it makes you wonder how the hell it could be used as leverage for nearly 100 years unless the Feddies' top brass don't know the first thing about politics.

>>15575892
>why would the Federation OR Zeon suddenly care about charters anyways?
Because Cardeas started waving his hands and scream "HEY GUYS THIS SHIT IS SUPER IMPORTANT" while putting a big X on it

>>15575958
>proove that the earth federation is full of shit and totally discredit them
Yeah, like they didn't have the slightest opportunity to do this before.

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>>15575517
>>15575756

I'm really tired of this 'Zeon was fighting for human progress' meme because it's plain bullshit. Zeon was fighting to put their rich assholes in charge of everyone to replace the Federation's rich assholes. There's nothing there about 'human progress' unless you consider Gihren's 'cleanse the Earth Sphere of the weak and unworthy' plan to be 'advancing humanity' in which case, go back to /pol/ you sociopathic asshole.

You want to talk about human progress? That's what the Federation did. They're the ones who undertook the greatest construction project in human history to build hundreds of massive space colonies and move all the masses of humanity up there so that they won't all starve to death on Earth's deteriorating environment.

Zeon, meanwhile, are nothing more than a bunch of entitled moochers who don't want to pay for all the shit the government has given them.

>>15576123
The Zabis do not represent Zeon. They took over, got killed and thats the end for them. Both Zeon Deikun and Char represent the best of Spacenoid independence movement. Char keeps talking about how leaving the earth behind (and letting it heal) will help the humanity advance. Char's Neo-Neo Zeon is the best example of Zeon fighting for the spacenoid cause.

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>>15576189
>Char's Neo-Neo Zeon is the best example of Zeon fighting for the spacenoid cause.
>Purging Earth with asterioids and creating an ice age, making whoever is still alive forcibly leave their homes is the best example of the spacenoid cause
Not to mention there were colonies having overpopulation problems due to the events of Zeta and ZZ, its just making that situation even worse

>>15576217
They would have figured something out. I mean, they can live on the moon and such. I guess the plan was that Char does a super heroic/evil act of destroying the earth and dies while doing it. He gets all the glory/blame, post mortem, while the humanity learns to survive without the earth.

https://youtu.be/yclOE9k5I-8

Full Frontal absolutely had the right idea in Unicorn. It's a damn shame they killed him off with a bad acid trip.

>>15575433
>Force Awakens of Gundam

Oh my god, you hit the nail on the head. Surprised I didn't notice this before.

>>15575424

Unicorn is the the modern Stardust Memories.

Not entirely likeable main characters, more likeable tertiaries, story that gets dumber as the series progresses, but pretty to look at.

>>15576277
Good music, too.

>>15576277
I liked stardust memories. It was a nice action adventure. And Gato was best girl.

But as the OP said, Unicorn had many memorable set pieces and decent callbacks. Bright was the best thing about UC imo.

>>15576189

>Char's Neo-Neo Zeon is the best example of Zeon fighting for the spacenoid cause.
>Let's kill everyone on Earth by dropping a giant rock on them!

It's bullshit like this that makes some idiots say that the Titans were right. Also, killing a whole bunch of people over the mad ravings of Zeon Dum Deikun is just as bad as killing a bunch of people for Gihren's bullshit. Especially since there's no objective proof that a) living in space will make everyone Newtypes (with stuff like G Reco actively disproving it) or b) everyone becoming Newtypes will lead to 'human progress', considering being a Newtype doesn't preclude someone from being a murderous, sociopathic asshole. At the end of the day, Neo Zeon are no different from the likes of ISIS or any other stripe of religious fanatic, willing to murder any number of innocents for the sake of pie-in-the-sky utopian bullshit.

Come to think of it, Deikunism is the perfect religion for a bunch of moochers like Zeon. There's no effort, sacrifice or even prayer required. All you need to do is sit on their asses in their floating tin cans for a few decades and then you'll magically achieve enlightenment and develop psychic Understanding powers.

>>15576381
Chars Neo-Neo Zeon was the necessary evil. Someone had to make the earth uninhabitable. Two things needed to happen in the early UC timeline. Earth should have stopped being the center of power and the people of earth should have put more emphasis on making more colonies, advancing space travel and leaving earth behind. There is no way to get a fat otaku to explore the outside, other than burning down his house. But as they say, the ends justify the means.

>>15576425
Nice using pie-in-the-sky utopian bullshit to justify mass murder like a good religious fanatic. Again, there is no need to murder billions of innocents and render the Earth uninhabitable to get people to expand to space. The Federation did it just fine without it. In fact, there is nothing to say that the Federation wouldn't have continued advancing beyond the Earth Sphere if the Zabis hadn't derailed things by murdering half of humanity and the OYW completely fucking over the Federation's economy.

If anything, a united government like the Federation would be preferable for leading any human expansion into space, with it's unified collection of mankind's resources, knowledge and manpower. It certainly it would be preferable to any loose coalition of Sides who would all have their own competing agendas, interests and would have no hesitation of going to war with each other over petty bullshit reasons (as shown clearly in Late UC).

All Neo Zeon would do by ruining the Earth is destroy human unity, kill billions of innocents, drive trillions of species of animal and plant life to extinction and deny humanity access to the only habitable biosphere in the solar system all to satisfy the murderboners of a few butthurt Spacenoids. It would contribute absolutely ZERO to the 'human progress'.

>>15576425
Gundam X's colony drop was pretty much CCA if Axis dropped successfully. There was no progress there, m8. It just created rifts between peoples

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It was fine. If you thought it was fine then fuck what anyone else thinks.

>>15576571
>>15576381
Contolism is an ideology of P E A C E

>>15575433
FPBP

The plot was shit and the final episode and fight was a complete asspull, though I'm basing my opinions totally on just the OVAs and nothing else

>>15575543
>>15575437
almost all of these specific interest boards have a certain type of people who see that something is popular, either on the board itself or just in general and shit on endlessly about how they hate it and it sucks for so and so reason, and sometimes how its worse than the last thing they hated/or noted bad thing.
[insert joke about how thats all /v/ is]

>>15575424
It's superfluous to an excessive degree. All of the UC stuff released after CCA has that feeling, for the most part, but Unicorn is so slavishly devoted to revisiting CCA that it feels cheap and lazy. And that's ignoring the specifics of Unicorn's story.

CCA has its issues, but it was a thematically successful conclusion and it didn't need a follow-up in any form. Unicorn is an okay watch on its own terms, but its obsessive and contrived reference to previous Gundam series makes that very hard to do and the laziness of it difficult to forgive. Its entire identity is in being a sequel, but it's terrible at it.

It would have been redeemed if at the end Full Frontal unfolded all of those magic yellow fins and all that psychoframe overloaded and transported them through time or something (instead of the flashbacks being a visual metaphor). Just like, Zeon engineers totally overdid it without having any idea what they were doing.

There is that one line halfway through the series where some Unicorn engineer is like "why does the frame glow?" and the other one is like "we don't know why it does that."

>>15576944
>final episode and fight was a complete asspull
welcome to UC

>>15577129
Zeong vs Gundam was pretty solid. So was FA Gundam vs Psycho Zaku, though I guess those are exceptions.

>>15577132
I dunno, a thunder restarting the Psycho Zaku was kinda asspully
Though I guess I can let it slide because its established that the thunders are plot armor since they deflect that shot which saves Flemings ass

>>15575436
But F91 and Victory. CCA wasn't that great of an ending to be honest. It felt inconclusive. Unicorn is no different.

>>15577152
CCA was the big climax of UC and ends both Amuro and Chars rivaly and the general conflcit between the Federation and Zeon
F91 and Victory had little to no connection with the previous instalments, especially Victory

People hate Unicorn because it's popular. Simple as that. The whole Zeonwank argument is complete garbage because the series has always kinda been like this.
It's barely Zeonwank to begin with because Banana keeps criticizing their ways.
>>15575482
Zeon has always been honor bound despite the colony drop they pulled. Wasn't this shown long before Unicorn? Garma fought for his girl, Ramba let Amuro live to fight him on MS combat, Dozle telling his men to fuck off so he can fight the Gundam alone, Degwin attempting to personally make peace with the Feddies, etc. The Feddies were NEVER seen as perfectly good people either. Don't people remember the first Feddies that the White Base encountered after leaving Side 7 were absolute assholes? Or the Feddies that ransacked Amuro's house and laughed at his face for looking for his mother? How about the fact that the they forced the White Base and it's young crew to their dirty work?

>>15577155
Just because the next two factions aren't called Zeon doesn't mean they don't have a connection to the previous conflicts. It's still a fight between power hungry spacenoids and the Federation(or LM for Victory whatever).

>>15577177
F91 felt like a logical progression of the world and setting and gave it its own flavor
Victory felt largely out of place and was completly random at times, even more so than ZZ

>>15577167
>People hate Unicorn because it's popular. Simple as that.
lol

>>15577187
The Feddies in F91 were arguably the worst they've been since Zeta Gundam. Tried to use kids as shields when the CV attacked. Just shows that it didn't respect CCA's ending all that much. I don't really have a problem with that, shitty people don't just go away even if they become newtypes.

>>15577192
It makes sense, not all of the worlds problems and horrible people are going to be magically fixed because of a single event, especially it if happen a generation ago
Being a Newtype doesn't automatically make you a good person
Besides life in F91 seemed to be pretty chilled and lively before everything went to shit

>>15577132
MSG ended strong cause it climax wasn't its last Gundam fight. after they tottaled the Zeong and the Gundam Char and Amuro fuckin fought with swords, and then the aftermath of that was Amuro and his friends escaping A Baoa Qu, Ghiren being executed by his sister and then her having her head blown off by Char.
and i haven't seen/read it but i assume Thunderbolt is like 8th MS team and Stardust Memories and is without newtypes.
But some of the biggest hallmarks of UC, Zeta ZZ CCA and also Unicorn all end with newtype magic being the endgame
that said at least Unicorn tries to justify its own newtype BS with "tech we only kinda understand"

>>15577242
>i haven't seen/read it but i assume Thunderbolt is like 8th MS team and Stardust Memories and is without newtypes.
Anon...

>>15576944
>plot was shit
>"Early UC is nothing but newtypes and zeon, research indicates that's kinda a bad thing!"
>bad

Oh I get it, it's bad because it insinuates that Zeta Gundam is part of the UC problem.

>>15576189
>Muh special brand of Zeon was never tried
So how do you know it's any good? It doesn't seem that most zeon soldiers were unhappy with the Zabis anyway.

>>15575424
Fun ride sure, but I think the problem a lot have with it is classic Tomino Gundams were in a way war-stories first before they were space operas with giant robots. Unicorn was the opposite of that in many ways, thus while it LOOKED good on the outside (art/animation/visuals/cameos/references), the heart of it's plot was lacking a lot of the specifically styled gravitas that usually comes with UC-centric stories.

>>15575433 makes a good summary of it

>>15577265
oh
well i guess that something to go in knowing

To all the EF dick riders:

The situation is UC is similar to American war of independence. EF is Britain and the colonies are well, colonies. Had the Zabis not sabotaged the peace talks before the oyw, the colonies would have gained independence and everyone would have been happy. Sure the Zeon did a lot of terrible things, but so did the American colonies (Zeon is built on gassing, nukes and colony drops, while USA is built on the complete annihilation of one race an making another race their slaves). Nobody is perfect, both in IRL and UC. But judging by how IRL turned out, the colonies gaining independence would not have been so bad.

>>15575627
I've been assblasted about this for a long time now because I thought they weren't doing her character enough justice. I really want to see how she got her bellpepper and how she interacts with the rest of the crew seeing as how it's already been an established fact by Unicorn that she has a homely relationship with everyone.

I dare say that she's far more beloved than Mineva there.

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I still never quite understood what the fuck Riddhe's deal was, obviously he was trying to protect Mineva for reasons I didn't quite understand (to atone for the sins of his family?) and started hating Gundams so much after Mineva friendzoned him for Banaji that he started piloting one. It's unfortunate that it took Marida's death for him to realize he was being an edgy little shit just so the producers could shoehorn in a rival Gundam. Seriously, where the hell did a second psychoframe Gundam technically on par with the Unicorn come from? It was obviously foretold in the tapestry, but did they just have one lying around in Anaheim's basement?

I did really like Full Frontal's character, outside of being too sensitive to VR and anticlimactically biting the dust because of it. It's as if some random clone got told to carry the hopes of all the Spacenoids even though he did not particularly care about anything, but went along with it anyways, which is what I suppose what he meant with being a vessel. Being voiced by Ikeda did add that 'welp, here we go again' vibe. I wish there were less 'FF destroys everything singlehandedly' action scenes, they started to wear off even though the Neo Zeong was prime final boss material.

In a way, it's all rather ironic. While Zeta/ZZ and CCA have already ended on the note of entrusting the future to our children and to believe in a brighter future, Unicorn creates a pointless conflict just so that it can say the same thing again, and again and again until Bandai is done milking UC with the umpteenth OVA. While if we look at F91/Victory several decades later, we see history repeats itself again. Even though FF's proposal of a Prosperity Sphere would just reverse the roles by creating a generation of vengeful Earthnoids, everyone opted for a future believing humans would all pull themselves together. But more Gundam shows need to be made, so that will never happen

I wish they'd stop forcing that SORE DEMO meme, that was just blatant

>>15577742
Banshee makes sense considering the RX0 line is just that, an eXperimental series. Even in the UC timeline they built multiple prototypes and demonstrator models when evaluating a design, the original 78 had like what, at least 3 variants before sidestory material greatly inflated that number? 78-1 through to G3 were unquestionably a thing, right?

Either way, I always felt Unicorn was more a meta commentary on Gundam than it was a status quo breaker for the timeline. It's a plea to move on from the One Year War and the ghost of Zeon, as futile as that may be.

>>15577742
>I still never quite understood what the fuck Riddhe's deal was, obviously he was trying to protect Mineva for reasons I didn't quite understand (to atone for the sins of his family?) and started hating Gundams so much after Mineva friendzoned him for Banaji that he started piloting one.
Yeah, that's a rather unnatural progression. It's as if they desperately needed an antagonist. Forced conflict (as in 'forced drama'), that's what it was.

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>>15577742
>>15577806

I thought it made more sense in the novels because he didn't just rage and shot the bellpepper all of a sudden. There was a great deal of progression that they cut off for god knows why.

But to be honest Mineva was kind of an asshole to him, she could've just rejected in a kinder way instead of pulling that cuck shit in front of him with Banana.I mean, her choices are illogical at times, she was standing in an air carrier that was going up in flames and yet she still refused to at least let him help her to safety before ditching him. Jumping off in front of him like that was just spiteful.

I mean, Mineva wasn't the nicest person around either. In the novels she really did go all out and ask the doctor to forcibly awaken a comatose Marida in a goddamn ICU with as much as she can possibly take.

And then we have the obligatory SORE FUCKING DEMO Banana stupidity.

Really, don't try to think too much about logic in Unicorn because half of the things they do or say make no fucking sense at all.

>>15577742
I didn't like all the EDGE in the LN. That purple guy who was always hanging out with FF was a abused, gay hooker, while Marida was a child sex slave who got tortured all day long. We dont need that kind of edge in Gundam. The old UC shows showed the horrors of war, and it did it well. These edgy backstories just dont fit.

>>15577922
>abused, gay hooker, while Marida was a child sex slave who got tortured all day long
Is this shit really in the LN?

>>15577937
>The novel reveals more on his motivations for his near worship of Frontal: his father was killed, while he and his mother were sexually abused by Federation soldiers in the aftermath of the Federation's invasion of the town of Globe. The abuses continued with the master of the house that took him and his mother in. Later on, after his mother committed suicide, and Angelo committed himself to prostitution to survive, he later encounters Full Frontal who later takes him in - paralleling how Char took in Lalah Sune years prior.

>she was one of the only surviving clones and was later taken by slave traders. She was later sold into sex slavery, in a colony brothel. Although her handlers thought she was too young to be a prostitute, the Madam knew that there were plenty of pedophiles among her clients that would be interested in such youth. Before coming under the protection of Suberoa Zinnerman, she experienced countless rapes, pregnancies and abortions and her body became scarred from the abuse of her brutal customers.

Yup. The Marida one was implied in the OVA. This is a missed opportunity to touch upon a serious subject that the older gundam shows didn't dare to touch, namely rape in war times. It is common that both sides of the conflict rape their victims (happens in almost every war). Gundam does show the horrors of war, but because it is still a tv show, they cant depict that aspect of war. Zinnerman told banana about those war rapes, and it was a good scene. Had they made it so Marida and Angelo were both war rape victims, then it would have been fine. But Angelo became a prostitute to make ends meet, and Marida was sold after the war. Both are just Elfen lied tier edgy sob-stories.

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>>15577965
Marida was retarded as hell though. Why didn't she just run away? I mean she WAS a trained soldier and if she had a mobile suit at that time she would've totally obliterated the entire sorry ass brothel. I'm pretty sure there would be plenty of army personell around to take her in, especially if she's one of those prized newtypes.

>>15577984

>Why didn't she just run away?

Well, she was 10, an enemy of the 'legitimate' Zeon remnants at the time and without a mobile suit, so...

>>15577984
To its defense, as with most Cyber-Newtypes Marida was conditioned to answer to her master which used to be Glemy, whereas after the war she was a child with no master and no mobile suit, with the brothel pimp pretending to be her master. So on her own she was a functionally hopeless kid, until she learned to stand on her own two feet during the hangar bay fight scene.

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This guy right here. The definition of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

>>15578034
Honestly, this guy. Trying to make a completely unpalatable character liked by sacrificing another character for them is one of the worst trends in Gundam.

>>15577965
I just found it stupid as fuck that she won the misery lottery so effortlessly just by being raped and impregnated so repeatedly that her reproductive organs get destroyed or got pregnant so many times until her pimp had to bring her to get her womb removed. What the fuck man.

>>15577965
Good thing that the director knew what to cut.
Also
>A guy called Full Frontal.
>We never see his dick.

>>15577922
Didn't like every character they gave a tragic backstory to involve rape?

Like, how does one story that isn't hentai involve so much rape?

>>15577937

Besides from that, the OVA also had a lot of changes from the LN in terms of plot points (OVA Vol 4 is a lot different from the Torrington / Dakar arc in the LN which drew quite a lot of ire from /m/) and how quite a few characters that died in the LN got spared in the OVA

>>15578146

>Implying Sinanju's rifle isn't basically his dick as he effortlessly styled all over his enemies with it way too many times

Is it true that in get novels, Banana and FF also went forward in time and saw that nothing changes because F91 and victory?

>>15575424
>Why all the hate for Gundam Unicorn?
To fit in.

>>15577188
Case in point.

>>15578286
Fetishes. Given Fukui's fixation with it, it wouldn't be too surprising if rape shows up in Yamato 2202.

>>15578339
Why did the OVA turn so kiddie-friendly all of a sudden? It went from grit to My Little Gundam: Space Magic.

>>15575424
I think Unicorn's biggest issue is that it starts off with one of the best battles Gundam has had in the 21st century and an incredibly strong first episode, but from the second episode on the story, characters and action got worse and worse every episode. The philosophy of "we may be retarded, but even so!" and was really grating and amateurish, seeming like window dressing just to make the series feel deeper than it was. It never got bad exactly, but the quality decreased with time - which made it seem worse than it was by the end.

>>15577772
the official story is that there were 8 RX-78's produced
Amuro happened to get in the second of that line (apparently all or at least some of the whole line was stationed on that slab in his colony) while the rest were repaired or refitted and sent to other places.
so far only the 8th of the line has gone unused, even G-3 gets usage in the MSG novel and "more officially" in char deleted affair

>>15577893
>she could've just rejected in a kinder way instead of pulling that cuck shit in front of him with Banana
no i object to that shit, he was the one pushing that "hey our lives out kinda similar so we belong together lets get married" shit on her. he was that guy who went from kinda flirting to full on "we must be start crossed lovers"
there was no obligation on Minerva to indulge in that shit and im glad she didnt cause it was pathetic on his part

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>>15578440

>Implying the original LN isn't My Little Gundam: Newtype is Magic

The OVA merely cranked up the Newtype Magic up to 11, as far as grit is concerned I'm not even if Unicorn LN qualifies as grit as it can just as misinterpreted as edge thanks to Fukui's writing with that said I would've liked to see the lead pipe fight between BananaG and Full Frontal animated for laughs

>>15576425
>and the people of earth should have put more emphasis on making more colonies
There were more than enough colonies to go around.

Until Zeon started trashing them time and time again. Also why are you putting this work all on earth-dwellers? Surely the people up in space could have had some hand in creating new colonies?

>>15578364
i hope not that sounds dumb as shit
i can buy "psychic super metal makes psychic powers power up my robot" a lot more than "also it makes me time travel"

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It just comes off as shitty fanfiction and has no place in the timeline. When I first watched it I had to recheck my math multiple times because I genuinely didn't want to believe that this shit was supposed to take place THREE (三) fucking years after CCA. That's literally no time at all, and yet despite this you have a FOURTH major zeon army equipped with tech arguably superior to that of F91 (afterimages that have mass nonwithstanding). And then they insert the stupid bullshit about Laplace's Box, which is one of the most nonsensical plotpoints in the entire series. They seriously want us to believe that a terrorist who blasted the the "haha we space socialists now" speech for reasons I forgot came into the possession of the original version of the constitution that had a very specific and rather silly extra rule which just so happened to completely justify the ideas of a philosopher who wouldn't be born for another few decades?

>>15577207
Makes me wonder what an F91 Earth Arc would've been like. We really get no look at the planet in the movie.

>>15575424
>Why all the hate for Gundam Unicorn?
because it was the precursor to g-reco

>muh secret princess
>muh side-switching protag
>muh enourmous asspulls

>>15578516
And ZZ had Bright being assaulted by a chicken.

>>15578574
>And ZZ had Bright being assaulted by a chicken.
What's that have to do with anything?

>>15578578
>What's that have to do with anything?
Exactly my question, when watching ZZ right now.

>>15578574
Who won?

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>>15578766

>>15578559
Literally has been done before Unicorn you retard.

>>15578436
You can read this very thread for reasons people don't like Unicorn. Dismissing all negative reaction as empty contrarianism is just lazy.

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I think most of the hate for Unicorn comes from people who think CCA was a masterpiece. It wasn't. Not even close. It was still entertaining though but so is Unicorn. Don't let this board bother you too much about it. Most of the fandom actually likes Unicorn. Every Gundam has haters. Especially Zeta apparently.

>>15578935
But this is 4chan. There is nothing but contrarianism here. Plus some of the reasons here aren't all that well thought up.

>>15578960
I don't care for CCA or Unicorn. Of all the Gundam related anime those two are real low on the list of ones I'd be pumped to rewatch.

>>15579143
I was pumped for both as I worked my way up the UC. They both come off as equal to me. They both have fantastic things about them but there are also things that really bother me about the two. 0079 is still the best of them all. Not just the UC but Gundam in general.

>>15575499

His dad got killed by his half-brother. SCRUB

>>15578079
Especially considering how avoidable it was, it came off as especially hamfisted.

If he took his beam rifle and shot himself in the cockpit, it would probably have been a better ending for him.
Or, at the very least, gets court-martial for friendly fire.

No Tomino, not a Gundam series

>>15575424
Because as mentioned, it was unnecessary, it was another installment squished between things that were already there that used supertech that promptly vanished, and people don't like cash-in retcons messing with the dynamics of the setting.

But even more? I don't think RE:0096 helps. Holy shit those recaps, those alone have the Toonami kids wailing that it's worse than Tokyo Ghoul.

>>15575424
They let Riddhe live.

>>15579250
That was a good thing though. I don't understand all the Riddhe hate. It's not like Riddhe is a complete and logical character.

>>15579852
Because it took him killing the best girl to snap out of his contrived edgy emotional phase. And he wasn't even a Cyber-Newtype.

>>15579864
Blame the writers for his contrived edgy emotional phase, which didn't even make any sense in the OVA.

>>15578516
>constitution that had a very specific and rather silly extra rule which just so happened to completely justify the ideas of a philosopher who wouldn't be born for another few decades?

It's a major plot point that it -doesn't- justify it. The "new type of human" Marcenas had in mind and the space adapted "newtype" of Deikun's philosophy were only the same in name only, but it was the moment the latter coined his idea of newtype that the original Charter retroactively became a panic issue for those in on the conspiracy, fearing that it could be twisted into justifying colonial independence and thus undermine the power hold the elite had on space migrants. And it only got worse as the Principality came into being, ultimately culminating in "we unironically fear the Charter can be used to defend dropping space colonies onto the earth, that is fucking not cool at all bro" sentiments. It puts into new context why a group like the Titans would be the response to Zeon, some people back on Earth were fucking terrified of the idea of Zeon getting a second wind and playing the WE DID NOTHING WRONG card if they ever found out about the Charter, all because it features the magical word "new type" in the context of granting independence to spacenoids. Also, Zeon dropped a space colony, there's the other fear of the Charter giving free pass to let the surviving remnants drop more shit on the Earth; I mean, they tried it again with Stardust, and there was the Axis drop too...

Mineva has an entire speech about this at the end calling bullshit on the Charter as a tool to advance the Zeon narrative.

>>15579992
The charter sentence is stupid because it's unnecessary at best and an objectively terrible decision at worst. You don't even need to know about Deikun to realize that.

Depending on how it's interpreted, it basically means something like, "If people with blue skin develop in space we'll give them human rights" or "blue skinned people always win elections if they're against people who don't have blue skin."

Does the last zabi get a happy ending or is there supplementary material lthat shows her getting a unceremonious end instead of what we got in the lns and anime?

>>15575424
i liked it just fine but
>watching english dub of unicorn
>However,
>However,
>However,
>However,
>However,
>However,

>>15578470
Hang on, I thought Amuro destroyed all the remaining Project V prototypes and tech on display there with the super napalm? How were the rest there too?

>>15575469
Banagher was fucking horrible,yes. He was the main reason Unicorn sucked,because he was a personality-less blob who was utterly unlikeable and unrelatable. Everything else in the show was great.

>>15582134
shrug
im sure someone made some reason when they wrote those extra models being out there, or im just misremembering the first episodes

>>15579852
Look at it the way another anon put it, he's a character whose only positive development comes from the writer sacrificing another, more well-received character to try and redefine him in a light the audience would prefer. That's not only lazy and bad writing, it's fucking insulting to anyone that liked the other character.

>>15575424
>Why all the hate for Gundam Unicorn?
Too many words, not enough explosions and memes for /m/.

>>15575433
And just like Force Awakens; Only virgin neckbeards hate it.

>>15575469
but muh waifu

muh incredibly bland waifu

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>>15582077

>However
>No "Even so!"

Do you even SORE DEMO?

>>15582871

I'm pretty sure Unicorn has enough explosions and perhaps memes for /m/

>>15582885

>Not "muh incredibly bland and arbitrary tragic waifu"

>>15582875
Really though, it's not hard to see how fedora wearing neckbeards can hate on TFA, it's a soft reboot of a legitimate masterpiece. Unicorn is getting compared to CCA which is no where near as amazing as people say it is. Simply good AT BEST.

>>15579864
He wasn't a cyber-newtype but didn't Banagher say the Banshee was fucking with his head? I'm not justifiying killing Marida off just saying.

>>15583413
NT-D has been said to cloud your thoughts and make you super aggressive, which is why Banana struggled to prevent its activation in Laplace and why he got himself into stuff like the atmospheric reentry.

>>15579852
>>15579864
>>15579873
Sexual frustrations and coming to terms with his role in the battle as the not-hero.

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>>15583684
Also
>"I'm the son of a super and very important politician in the Federation"
>"You are part of the Zabis"
>"Everybody hates our families and probably us too"
>"My life is kinda shit and I'm gonna asume yours isn't any different"
>"Oh my gawd! we are soooooooo relatable!"

>>15583755
Riddhe is such a misunderstood character. It's a shame he gets so much hate.

>>15575424
I really don't get the hate for Unicorn. Let's be honest, it's better than the rest of the mainline UC stuff, and has better mech designs and fights to boot.

I hate modern gundam because they've all essentially become g gundam in their ridiculousness of powers. People jab at freedom's godhood but that's become obsolete. I can forgive turn a since that's the end but everything else is stupidly powerful and silly for their time period

Literally becoming a fucking space crystal god? Really?

>>15583684
>coming to terms with his role in the battle as the not-hero
So meta!

>>15577295
>talking about Unicorn
>suddenly get butthurt out of nowhere about Zeta
Christ no wonder people shitpost about Zeta so often, you faggots will get mad about literally nothing.

>>15577586
>The situation is UC is similar to American war of independence.
The colonial rich assholes don't feel like paying their fair share and sucker the poor slobs in the colonies to take bullets for them?

Yeah, sounds about right.

>>15578574
Most realistic moment in Gundam. Chickens are assholes.

>>15575433

Char's Counterattack didn't wrap up anything about Zeon. It didn't say a thing about why Zeon was bad, why some might see it otherwise, why people shouldn't follow it etc. And no, nothing Char says in the ending has anything to do with that, since discounting that it doesn't actually say anything about Zeon, only Char himself, none of his followers hear any of it. They help the Federation because they want to, not because he betrayed their expectations.

>>15575593

If you think that there is a 'good guy' faction you missed the point too.

>>15575424

More magic shit that blocks colony lasers, then breaks the machine, then reforms. What ever the fuck that sudden disintegration thing was was frontal, frontals ability to wave a hand and destroy everyones weapons. Everything after Meniva decided not to go with Riddhe.

The zeon remnants (a mere 3 years after CCA) had elements of the more rational 'independence' movement (to tie in with the main issue of unicorn), also the crazed revenge driven group and even some genocidal neo neo zeons. Why they all wanted to have zeon in their name is strange since their goals were not completely aligned.

>>15575892

> The only way to open up a locked box with a secret document in it was to build a special Gundam, genetically alter your kid, and have him fly that Gundam all over the world having battles at the exact right time and place to get the code to... something?

Syam Vist got rich man's guilt when he realized he was dying and wanted to make right those he felt he'd wrong to make his money. He didn't just want the original charter used as propoganda to start another war though, so he deliberately made it something that would require someone to go around seeing the aftermath of past wars that used much the same rhetoric. The box was keyed to only open after visiting various locations so as to maximize the chances whoever inherited it would use it do something other than start a war. Banana being the one to inherit it was chance, so genetically altering him had nothing to do with the box.

>>15575964

It couldn't be. Syam originally used it to blackmail the nascent Federation by threatening to expose the fact they had killed their predecessors to come in to power. They paid him shush money to stop him doing so for years, and life went on. By the time Zeon Deikun started talking about newtypes there were probably few left in government, if any, that actually remembered the box was even a thing but Syam suddenly had something that could justify him. Fortunately he then died and the Zabis didn't care about newtypes, so it became academic for a few more years until successive Zeon off-shoots started talking about them (mostly Char), at which point it became really important again. It wasn't used as leverage for all 100 years, and it wasn't using the amendment itself as leverage for most of that - it was just proof of illicit dealings for most of it's life, was mostly irrelevant and then suddenly became really relevant.

>>15575424
>Why all the hate for Gundam Unicorn?
I actually gave RE:0096 a watch on TV years after watching the OVA, because I figured why the hell not, and I realized something. Anyone watching Unicorn who hasn't seen every UC chronologically beforehand has absolutely no fucking idea what is going on and it seems absolutely ridiculous.

>>15587624
Even if you've watched every UC beforehand and know what the fuck's going on it's still absolutely ridiculous, it just makes references to better shows every five seconds instead.

>>15576230

It's going to be a lot harder to figure something out when the central authority commissioning a lot of the research, funding and construction for those kind of projects is either in chaos or completely destroyed, while a group entirely unfamiliar with them now has the burden of doing it instead along with a refugee crisis and post-war hysteria of various kinds.

>>15578516

> just so happened to completely justify the ideas of a philosopher who wouldn't be born for another few decades

As opposed to said philosopher just so happening to imagine psychic powers manifesting from living in space but dying a decade or more before any of them would be born?

>>15580163

The other deleted provision is about aliens; it appears to just be the original Federation heads preparing for even outside chance things that could happen in future.

>>15585606

As opposed to what? Using the souls of the recently deceased as fuel for your super robot's weapons, having said souls physically interact with the mortal realm by preventing suits from moving, making beam shields with your mind, pushing an asteroid out of the upper atmosphere using good intentions? Gundam has been ridiculous in terms of power since Zeta. Freedom was a step down from stuff Tomino had done twenty years before hand, not a step up.

>>15575433
Did you actually watch CCA? A bunch of zeon commanders retreated in the end saying they could try again some other time , it only wrapped up the story between Amuro and Char

Full Frontal was cool, but amounted to nothing. Just after realizing he was a clone killed everything about his already vapid character.

>>15586059
Nazis Germany had a similar issue with internal factions. To put it lightly, the old Prussians were very fucking not happy. Frontal used the ground attacks as a way to thin out the Zabi loyalists conveniently from a similar standpoint as he was, at least loosely, a Contolist.

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The animation and sound was top tier but even then they copped out on some shit. I vividly remember the aerial battle Banana going to rescue Mineva in the Unicorn and they just had a CG rendering of the Unicorn expanding and was jarring as shit.

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>>15575482
>Because it portrayed Zeon as honorable freedom fighters fighting against a Federation that apparently had always been as bad as the Titans and still was oppressing and terrorizing harmless, innocent Spacenoids in 0096
Did you actually watch the OVA or are you just spouting random shit you read on /m/?

They point out multimple times the bullshit of the sleeves, first in Palau with Banana noticing the discrepancy between how shitty the living conditions of everyone there was while also having top of the line MS to wage war, then we have FF being called out on using Marida as living bait for the Newtype Destroyer System so he can get his coordinates knowing full well that Marida was going to die and not caring one bit, then we have the remnants losing their shit and slaughtering innocents with Zimmerman getting his face kicked in for not wanting to stop that senseless slaughter and lastly we have the crew of Garancieres leaving the rest of the remnants because they are tired of whole Zeon bullshit.

And finally we have Mineva leaving contents of the box in the open so that neither Zeon or anyone else could blackmail the Federation in the future.

You faggots are just like /v/, you don't watch/play something but still shitpost about it without actually knowing anything at all

It was literally too good for /m/

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>>15579873
I mean, I think it somewhat makes sense that Riddhe went edgelord for a time seeing as how all he was trying to do was get Mineva into a position where they could end the war and gets cockblocked every step of the way including by Mineva herself, then gets attacked by the Banshee that was supposed to be on his side, then seeing Mineva jumping off of a plane over siding with you before getting your mech absolutely destroyed all while some naive dipshit gets favored because the Unicorn likes him might make some people upset.

>>15576425
Put your trip back on BlackKnight

>>15590125
Half that only happened because he was blind, naive, and exceedingly stupid, and its resolution was nonsense.

>>15577742

> Seriously, where the hell did a second psychoframe Gundam technically on par with the Unicorn come from?

The same place as the first, presumably. If they could build one, why would it be unbelievable they might have built a second? What made the RX-01 desirable in the story wasn't the psychoframe, it was the La+ system, which isn't even that high tech and is placed in it by Cardias Vist, not by Anaheim. Anaheim having a second Unicorn model unit isn't a stretch at all.

>>15583755

He had a self image problem on the whole, not just an image as a hero that life wasn't going to let him have. Riddhe saw himself as a different from his family, defined not by his wealth and status but by his actions, just one of the guys and not looking for any special treatment. He saw himself that way, but he wasn't really that way. When he's talking to Bright about being a pilot on his ship Riddhe says that he doesn't want any preferential treatment, to which Bright tells him he was never getting it in the first place and barely pays attention to him, which visibly annoys Riddhe.

He had a pretty black and white view of things at the start as well. Feds good, Zeon bad. Which is visible in his first interactions with Mineva, who he expects to be some caricature of the Zeon he's seen in news and propoganda, shouting "Sieg Zeon" and foaming at the mouth with zeal. When she's just a fairly normal girl and actually wants to help stop any new conflict, it busts his preconceived notions and he becomes attracted to her because she's not who he thought she'd be as well as being in a vaguely similar situation to his own family wise.

I'm pretty sure Riddhe sees himself as a hopeful and earnest guy too, the kind of guy who'll embrace an uncertain future at the expense of his family or the past. Basically he sees himself as Banagher I think, and learning about his family and it's secrets he can't walk away from it or envision sharing that with the world since he doesn't have the faith in the people and the world he thought he had. Which is why he gets so mad at Banagher, because Banagher is who he always thought of himself as but who he realizes he's really not and Banagher is that without any apparent trouble, even getting the girl.

>>15590297

So he snaps and wants to take out his frustrations on Banagher and get rid of the reminder that he's not who he thought he was. I quite like Riddhe really, because he's not a completely superficial character you can summarize in one sentence, one you can analyze at least a little as well as being quite entertaining and endearing. I don't think the show stuck the landing of his character arc all that well, and would agree having him kill Marida and her ghost snap him out of it was a cheap and ineffective way of doing it, but I liked the setup and a lot of the execution up to that point.

>>15585762

Is it? I'm aware you're being sarcastic, but I can't see why. It's not a particularly meta arc, but not noteworthy as other-wise either. It seems to be like going "so random" at something completely not particularly random.

I thought people hated Unicorn because it's based on a novel that is a thinly veiled "9/11 was an inside job by jews, white people cause radical Islam and Japan did nothing wrong" rant using Gundam.

>>15585408
The hate is barely there to begin with. It's very well recieved by the fandom and only gets hate here in /m/. Even then, it's undeniably the best UC OVA even by this board's standards.

>>15590297
>>15590301
I agree on a lot of this, even the part about how his arc stumbles by killing Marida, coming off as cheap.

In fact, killing Marida just so Riddhe can fulfill his character arc is probably the point of the series I have the biggest problem with it. However, it's just a relatively brief point on it.

I actually think that Loni's revised arc in the OVA managed to work out despite being different from the Novel.

>>15578516
>I genuinely didn't want to believe that this shit was supposed to take place THREE (三) fucking years after CCA
Did every CCA dickrider forget Neo Zeon was never defeated in the end? They were still fucking there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KskWgQlA9Ds

It has the objectively best theme at least

I would have enjoyed Unicorn more if they either ditched all 'old' characters (including the Char clone) or removed the newcomers entirely and simply continue with the old cast. The way it is, it really looks like UC self-insert fanfiction, as somebody here mentioned.