How does /m/ feel about the Turn A gundam? How do you feel about

File: Turn A vs Turn X.jpg (773KB, 3036x2139px) Image search: [Google]

773KB, 3036x2139px

I love the turn a design. dislike the other versions of it though.

as for strongest, why would I give a shit? only neckbeards care.

Also it has the cutest pilot so even more points to the Turn A

File: __turn_a_gundam_gundam_and_turn_a_gundam_drawn_by_takemori_shintarou__sample-a6fbac8209a90acda5d16c80607bb455.jpg (119KB, 850x597px) Image search: [Google]

119KB, 850x597px

>>15568542
OP here, I really like the Turn A's design, but actually hated it at first. Watching the series and seeing it in action in different video games such as Super Robot Wars made me grow to love the design

File: 1466016511489.jpg (849KB, 1280x1801px) Image search: [Google]

849KB, 1280x1801px

>>15568555

I had much the same experience. When I was going through the Gundaminfo website looking over the various designs back what must have been about 2001/2002 after watching Wing I hated the Turn-A design, but now it's one of my favorite shows and I don't just love the the Turn-A itself, I love a lot of the mechanical design in the show. The Eagail, WaD and Mahiroo especially. I've watched it several times, and skimmed through episodes several more for webm material.

As for it's strength? Something has to technically be the strongest I suppose, but I don't care if it's the Turn-A or not. I do like discussing what unit is strongest in related threads, but I just enjoy those kinds of arguments for anything really. I do try to be objective (as much as I can) and stick only to what's in the show rather than any of the manual/novel/game shit though, so I think the arguments for 00 [Q]ant and God/Devil are pretty compelling.

File: TURN X.jpg (176KB, 765x960px) Image search: [Google]

176KB, 765x960px

>>15568534
>How does /m/ feel about the Turn A gundam?
It's okay, and that's saying a lot about how much leeway I'm giving it considering
A: The cockpit hangs off the front of the machine, which is completely fucking retarded.
B: The Turn A is unpleasant and boring to look at from the rear.

>How do you feel about it being the strongest gundam?
Not really the "strongest Gundam". It has its faults and it's outdone by various Gundams before and after.

>For those that don't like it, would you like it better if it was designed like this?
That looks completely fucking horrendous.

The Turn X, on the other hand, is fucking amazing in every way.

>>15568583
>it's outdone by various Gundams before and after.
Such as?

>>15568587
God, Wing Zero, Epyon, Double X, Strike Freedom, Destiny, 00 Raiser, 00 Qan[T], Unicorn, etc

>>15568592

At least half of those are in no way more powerful than it, namely the Wing Zero, Epyon, Double X, Strike Freedom and Destiny. Hell putting the Strike Freedom and Destiny in the same list as it is just laughable. Not that the God, 00 Raiser/[Q] and Unicorn aren't arguably more powerful, but the others aren't.

File: naniitendakoitsu.jpg (74KB, 960x540px) Image search: [Google]

74KB, 960x540px

>>15568592

>>15568606
I fucked up. I had to rewrite my post and I omitted something. That's my bad.

It has its faults and it's outdone *in various ways* by various Gundams before and after. Wing Zero and Epyon can predict the future, Double X's TSC can pierce right through a colony, the Strike Freedom and Destiny have Voiture Lumiere which is an insane concept. I can't really say "the Turn A is the strongest" when its most notable aspects are the Moonlight Butterfly and its defenses.

>>15568613
>most notable aspects are the Moonlight Butterfly
clearly you don't know what it does if you think Voiture Lumiere is impressive compared to it

>>15568618
Voiture Lumiere involves using light to to generate thrust - that is fucking crazy. I'm not playing down the Moonlight Butterfly, I'm saying that aside from it (and only considering what's shown), it doesn't have much that puts it in the running for 'strongest Gundam'. We've seen suits with more firepower than the Turn A demonstrates, we've seen suits with more mobility than the Turn A demonstrates.

>>15568629
I think reducing everything in-between Earth and Jupiter to dust constitutes a lot of firepower.

>>15568629
Laser propulsion is more plausible than a fucking twin black hole generator.

>>15568636
Sure, but I can only go by what's in the show. Not untranslated materials that I can't read.

>>15568639
Sure, but I can only go by what's in the show. Not untranslated materials that I can't read.

File: Turn of Speed.webm (2MB, 1440x1080px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1440x1080px

>>15568629

The Moonlight Butterfly appears to generate thrust despite being rather insubstantial looking. It also acts as both a shield, and as a weapon during the show, slicing suits in twain. Given that it can cover a battlefield of several miles squared in seconds and cover an entire mountain range in ionic storms it's likely that putting the range and destructive ability together it could destroy anything within that range in the same manner. Not that the ability to eat all technological manner wouldn't allow it to destroy colonies anyway, but it's just likely to be able to slice one in half or whatever as well as break it down if desired. The Moonlight Butterfly can do a lot of what you're saying others possibly pip it, at least partially.

>>15568645
I know. I'm unable to really articulate how I feel on this. Autist and all that.

I'll just leave it at: I'm not comfortable thinking of it as the strongest Gundam considering some of the others in the franchise. Simple as that.

File: Moonlight Butterfly.gif (946KB, 500x375px) Image search: [Google]

946KB, 500x375px

>>15568643
>Sure, but I can only go by what's in the show. Not untranslated materials that I can't read.
the Dark history literally shows the turn a killing the earth in the show silly.

>>15568534
"True masterpiece of our time".

>>15568629
Yeah and moonlight butterfly involves using fucking nano machines to render tech inert or turn it into dust or some shit.

And that's all shit in the show.

I'm not saying other gundams haven't done crazy shit, or done shit the turn A can't do (Technically the V2 can outspeed most shit when it comes down to it for instance) but to say it isn't impressive because it can't see the future, or shoot a big laser is kind of stupid.

>>15568668
No it doesn't, and you mentioned Jupiter.

File: Turn-Armaggedon.webm (3MB, 720x540px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 720x540px

>>15568668

Not him, but no, you don't. What you see in the show is the Turn-A flying over the port of a city with a huge stormcloud filled with lightning behind it. That's it. The rest is exposition about how the Turn-A destroyed all civilization. Not that the show doesn't give you enough to say it reduced the entire Earth's technology and civilization to nothing single handedly, a feat no other unit even comes close to destruction wise, but it doesn't show it is the point.

>>15568682
you literally posted the clip I was talking about. exposition or not it literally destroys the earth

>>15568682
>You don't see the Turn A destroy civilization
>Here, look at this clip which is the Turn A destroying civilization.

>>15568682

I'm aware, and said as much, but it doesn't show it. Which was my only point. I do think that webm gives a good idea of how it destroyed all technology though, given that people occasionally wonder how it manages it and whether it has to fly around the world slowing eating all tech in a region before moving on. The sky in that clip is crystal clear when the Turn-A flies in to the camera, then when the camera moves back out a few seconds later the entire sky is a black, ionic cloud. I imagine it destroys all tech by basically co-opting the planet's weather system, the nanomachines merging with the clouds and then metastizing so that they cover the entire world in relatively short order.

If that were true it could really destroy any size planet, at least any size planet that has an atmosphere, maybe even a star, if it could withstand it's outer atmosphere long enough to release a payload of nanomachines, but I fail to see how it could use that same method to destroy all extra-planetary bodies, like the colonies and out to Jupiter. If it is how it works on a planetary scale, it would limit it's destruction to a much smaller area in a void. Mind you, it might work via another method in a void and it's really all just supposition on my part.

>>15568719

See is the operative word there.

File: 1491277834695.png (718KB, 979x720px) Image search: [Google]

718KB, 979x720px

>>15568592
>God, Wing Zero, Epyon, Double X, Strike Freedom, Destiny, 00 Raiser, 00 Qan[T], Unicorn, etc
>Implying outside of the 00 quan[T] and Crystal Unicorn that any of the listed gundams stands a chance against a machine that can turn all technology just short of Jupiter into sand

>>15568592
>Epyon
Lets not kid ourselves.

>>15568745
Crystal Unicorn isn't even impressive though. All it did was shut down minovsky reaction like an EMP as its big debut.

File: turn a.jpg (2MB, 3000x2662px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 3000x2662px

>>15568534
I think that redesign is almost insulting to the original design. If you want to make it a more traditional gundam face, at least be creative with it instead of slapping the Ground Type's face on it.

>>15568757
Apparently the staff on the show said that it can warp reality to an extent, which would give it an edge over most other gundams. Then again, as was stated all we saw it do was stop a colony laser, which is a pretty big feat mind you, but doesn't really add up to much

>>15568765
It had help from Banshee to do that, for what that's worth.

>>15568765
Staff can say whatever they want but it took two psycoframe units to stop Gryps II, and crystal unicorn did nothing but EMP minovsky particles.

Amuro still managed to stop Axis with only a cockpit of psycoframes, and also did the minovsky reactor EMP wave to push all the mobile suits away from Axis and into safe orbit.

>>15568765

The stuff in question can be seen at https://pastebin.com/eT7jMp7N

> The Psychofield is a "world" in which something a person pictures can be made to come true, and Frontal's desire to take away his opponent's ability to fight resulted in their weapons being destroyed
> The Neo Zeong uses its psychoshard to create a pseudo psychofield, and thus make the Axis Shock replicable by artificial means.

It's in regards to the Neo Zeong though, not the Unicorn, which it says couldn't have stopped the Colony Laser on it's own and is supposed to be a one time miracle. It's why I've never really understood why people go on about crystal Unicorn, when it's powers were fairly obviously constrained by needing unusual circumstance to activate if nothing else, while the Neo Zeong just casually made a psycofield and appears to be able to do so at will. Yea, it lost, but being able to do that at will solo is more impressive than needing the help of dead newtypes and other people/suits like the Banshee.

>>15568773

Amuro didn't do a wave of any kind and certainly didn't do an EMP one, given that an EMP wave would render the mobile suits in it's area of effect helpless. The psycofield Nu generated pushed the suits away physically, not rendered them inoperative, same as it pushed Axis.

File: Turn A by Camlet.jpg (643KB, 1790x1178px) Image search: [Google]

643KB, 1790x1178px

>>15568534
I fucking hate every single redesign of Turn A.

File: TurnA_.jpg (1018KB, 2240x1624px) Image search: [Google]

1018KB, 2240x1624px

>>15568831

>>15568831

That reminds me, didn't Dianna pilot some kind of flower mobile armor in one of the novels, while Guin had a Psyco Gundam derivative? Wonder if there have ever been any designs made for them.

File: 1397506839549.jpg (808KB, 2771x2931px) Image search: [Google]

808KB, 2771x2931px

>>15568840
I like this one, no where near as much as OG turn A but its pretty cool

>>15568845

I really like that design, the Team Choco one in the bottom right of >>15568840 and the two at the top left of the picture, the kind of knighly redesign and the For The Barrel looking one to the side of it. The knighly one is the only one that shares any real common points though, and the rest are just cool designs that happen to homage Turn-A as part of their inspiration, rather than redesigns.

>>15568534
I just started this series and I'm so confused
Why is Earths technology so shitty except for the moustache gundam and Moons stuff

Is it some sort of alternate timeline because that's the only thing I can think of

>>15568904
You're watching a big boy chinese cartoon now. It's not gonna spoonfeed you everything in the first episode.

File: char - manly tears.png (269KB, 640x481px) Image search: [Google]

269KB, 640x481px

>>15568904
Don't give up on me, dammit.

>>15568534
>How does /m/ feel about the Turn A gundam?
Overrated shitbox, everything impressive about it comes from non-canon sources.
>How do you feel about it being the strongest gundam?
It isn't. Tomino said the G-Self is the strongest ever, and he's the writer/director of both series so his word goes. Not that I ever bought into the Turn A being more powerful than Devil Gundam to begin with, but that's neither here nor there. Word of god says it's no longer the strongest ever.
>For those that don't like it, would you like it better if it was designed like this?
It's a significant improvement. I'll never understand why Turn A fans suck Syd Mead's cock so much, his designs are terrible.

>>15568949
Tomino is an out-of-show source, debunked, try harder.

>>15568745
>all technology just short of Jupiter into sand
lol except Sacktraeger and the Lunar Capital

The only reason that bullshit about jupiter was added to the NON-CANON novel was because the writer realized that Tomino's story in the anime did not account for what happened to the Jovians. Not only does nothing in the show support the idea that the MLB reached halfway across the solar system, the continued existence of the moon colonies and sacktraeger rather blatantly disprove it.

>>15568953
>out-of-show source
He's the fucking writer.
If he says "this one robot I created is more powerful than this other robot I created" then you don't get a vote.
Also crying "out-of-show" on the writer comparing two mechs that weren't even in the same show is just retarted.

>>15568926
Char has to be part of the ancestors right? But how did they go backwards in technology
It's star wars all over again

>>15568985
an evil machine dissolved all of the world's technology about 2,000 years ago. The show takes place during humanity recovering from that loss, which is why they have biplanes and steam ships, but there are a few functional relics (mobile suits) buried in the mountains.

>>15568972

I thought the designer was the one who said it, not Tomino?

>>15568993
Is there any fanservice for the older series or is it just a bunch of randoms

the turn A is a mathematic symbol "for all". So basically the turn A gundam is sacrificing itself for all gundams by being the ugliest so any past and future gundam designs will automatically look hot by comparison.

>>15568534
The Turn A is a sort of miracle. Perhaps "anomaly" is a better word.
I honestly can't comprehend why they would get a filthy gaijin like Syd Mead to design such a prominent Gundam. There are upsides and downsides:

Syd Mead is a brilliant designer. His sleek lines, practical consideration and realist-futurist aesthetic were thematically appropriate for the new millennium. However, his designs only work under specific conditions. In his own design works, including the concept art for Turn A, the designs look dazzling. They all fit together.

The animators for the show, however, simply took the design and applied this weird aesthetic to it that makes all the mechanics look weird and crumbly, in direct contrast to the sleek lines of the concept. Instead of being pure white, the Turn A is a yellowy sort of egg colour. The human characters, whilst refreshing, don't look like they belong in the same universe as the mecha.

Ultimately I like Turn A for what it represents. Gundam is a weird but influential legacy franchise like Zelda. I'm a fan of sort of "finale crossover" instalments like Final Fantasy Dissidia, especially when they're done right. As the finale and final message - the final result of a world pursuing the power of Gundam - I think it's great. But it could have been better.

>>15569005
There's a mobile suit that looks pretty similar to a suit from UC, and at an important plot moment in Turn A is a few clips of battles from 0079, Z, ZZ, Wing, After War X, and a few others.

If you're interested in G-Reco (which is in the same universe as Turn A), then there's a museum in episode 2 which has a Zaku, some Gundam, and a few other MS from UC, and there's a major fight in the ruins of Jaburo.

>>15569747
>which is in the same universe as Turn A
They ALL are.
That was the entire point of Turn A.

Okay, not the ones about building models, or the ones where tiny gundams have minds of their own, but all the rest are the same universe.
except for A New Translation and maybe G-Saviour

>>15569891
>A New Translation
>G-Saviour
Those too, Anon.
Turn A is the end result of all worlds with "Gundam". Build Fighters MAYBE excepted.

That's also why it makes 0 fucking sense for G-Reco to take place after it.
Are you telling me that literally fucking nothing survives into CC except one Gundam, one MS from space and some shitty Zaku Is and Capules, yet hundreds of years after that, they have shittons of museums with Z'Goks, Gelgoogs, Rick Dias and all of that?

>>15568993
>2,000 years ago
500 now. Retcon.

>>15569895
Yes, and the mobile suits in Jaburo that date back to the OYW managed to survive both Bask's nuke and the Moonlight Butterfly.

>>15568534
>How does /m/ feel about the Turn A gundam?
I like it. It's one of my favorite main Gundams.

>How do you feel about it being the strongest gundam?
It's not. Devil can terraform a planet, Qan[T] has bullshit space-time hax, and GP02 has a nuke. It's not even clear if the ∀ was the strongest in its own show given how both Turns ended their battle in a stalemate.

>>15569922

Zaku I's can fire nukes. So can Turn-A for that matter. Adding in that like it means anything is silly, though there's at least arguments for the other two.

>>15568719
NO YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND
THEY DIDN'T SHOW THE TURN A DESTROY EVERY LAST BIT OF CIVILIZATION SO IT DOESN'T COUNT

t. retards

>>15569940

> literally say the show still gives enough information to say it happened regardless (>>15568682)
> NO YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND
THEY DIDN'T SHOW THE TURN A DESTROY EVERY LAST BIT OF CIVILIZATION SO IT DOESN'T COUNT

> t. retards

t. retard indeed.

>>15569960
Shut up retard, we're too busy making fun of you.

>>15569940
This.

We don't need to *see* something to know it happened, that's only the case with retarded people. The Turn A can teleport instantly to any point in the universe, it can destroy all technology from Earth to Jupiter instantly, it can regenerate itself and its pilot instantly after being damaged, it can warp its colony laser-sized beams directly into a cockpit, it can teleport additional equipment directly to it, it can make toast, and it can produce an I-field so strong that even physical objects are stopped. I know all of this because I saw it said in a thread here.

>>15569929
>Zaku I's can fire nukes. So can Turn-A for that matter

No they can't.

File: SUMO Squad v Turn-X.webm (3MB, 1440x1080px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 1440x1080px

>>15569979

> it can produce an i-field so strong that even physical objects are stopped

This one is actually in the show, kind of. The SUMO's i-field barrier thing is used to stop the Gendarme's missiles in episode 43 or 44 (the Turn-A uses an unknown barrier that is almost certainly Moonlight Butterfly based given it's colors) and to restrain the Turn-X in the second to last episode and the Turn-A is a newer unit probably constructed by the same faction given the cockpit similarities, so it's i-field can probably do it too.

>>15569994

Oh you're right, sorry, it was the Zaku II that could use nuclear shells in it's bazooka and had nuclear shielding built in to the suit because of it, seeing action at Loum among other battlefields early in the war before they were phased out because of the Antartic Treaty. I thought it was Zaku I's given how early in the war that was. The Turn-A carries two nukes in it's chest missile silos from about episode 29 to episode 38 or something similar, which it then uses to destroy the Mistletoe asteroid base.

>>15569916
>500
You are mistaken, friend.
G-Reco takes place 500 years after Turn A.
In the series, Turn A takes place 10,000 years after UC, in the movies Turn A takes place 5,000 years after UC.

The idea that Turn A was only 500 years after the Moonlight Butterfly is fan theory caused by ONE LINE in G-Reco where the Cyrano station is said to have a two thousand year history "including Universal Century", but that could easily refer to the station having been used waaaaay back in UC and then re-discovered in CC or RC. There is no retcon, it's just a fan theory.

File: Gym's hella old.webm (135KB, 1440x1080px) Image search: [Google]

135KB, 1440x1080px

>>15570092

It is kind of funny to imagine it is only 500 years since UC though, since Gym heavily implies himself to be at least 2,500 years old - meaning he was kicking around for a good chunk of UC. Even if a lot of it was in a freezer.

>>15569979
>it can destroy all technology from Earth to Jupiter instantly,
For one thing, Jupiter is never even mentioned in the show. That's from a non-canon novel written by a third party, it's not even in Tomino's setting notes for the show.
Secondly, the MLB is not instant. The Turn A is seen flying around spreading nanomachines behind it. We only see it destroy one town in actual on-screen footage and for all we know it took it weeks to fly around the whole planet spreading those nanomachines. If it was instant with a range of 400,000,000 miles it wouldn't have needed to move at all.

>>15570092
>G-Reco takes place 500 years after Turn A.
Citation needed. G-Reco has the Space Elevator, which is referenced to be destroyed in Turn A. I'm gonna need more than you just saying that G-Reco takes place after Turn A.

>>15570108
Tomino said it himself, although I'm not sure how much that matters.

>>15570098
>kind of funny to imagine it is only 500 years since UC though
This theory is primarily pushed by people who don't like the idea of other shows being in the same universe as their UC sacred cow. They're just trying to squeeze the timeline down so they can say there's no way that AGE and SEED happened in the same universe as Tomino's works, even though the entire reason Tomino used a 10,000 year time-skip when he wrote Turn A was to make room for other directors' works.

>>15570108
>has the Space Elevator
So does 00, so what?

File: Colonial Extra Solar Emmigration.webm (1MB, 1440x1080px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1440x1080px

>>15568949

> everything impressive about it comes from non-canon sources
> it's only directly stated to have wiped out all Civilization on Earth on it's own thousands of years ago, setting technology on Earth back millenia
> nothing impressive in that

Also, if word of God was all that mattered then Kira and Lacus would be the perfect, beloved characters the writer and director so desperately wanted them to be. Word of God has value, but so does on screen events, logic and death of the writer (or in this, director). Just because a creator wants something to be true, even within a work of fiction, doesn't make it so for the audience.

>>15568960

The show does kinda explain what happened though really, since it says that after the Moon and Earth declined due to war that those in the Colonies left. It's implied it's just the Earthsphere Colonies, but you could easily extrapolate it as the Jupiter ones too.

>>15569979
>The Turn A can teleport instantly to any point in the universe, it can destroy all technology from Earth to Jupiter instantly, it can regenerate itself and its pilot instantly after being damaged, it can warp its colony laser-sized beams directly into a cockpit, it can teleport additional equipment directly to it, it can make toast, and it can produce an I-field so strong that even physical objects are stopped.

Don't forget that it can also wash your laundry.

>>15570108
The thing is, Tomino explicitly stated this.
Everyone, both in Japan and the west, collectively went "Wat?" because it causes so many nonsensical problems that are already solved by setting G-Reco BEFORE Turn A. Which is why people are starting to seriously wonder if he was just trolling.

File: Gundam Playground.webm (231KB, 1440x1080px) Image search: [Google]

231KB, 1440x1080px

>>15570140

It can double as train tracks, a washing line and a children's playground too.

File: physalis bazooka.webm (572KB, 365x274px) Image search: [Google]

572KB, 365x274px

>>15570023
>it was the Zaku II that could use nuclear shells in it's bazooka
They had smaller 120mm warheads. Comparitively, they were pea-shooters next to the Mk 82 that Physalis had.

>The Turn-A carries two nukes in it's chest missile silos
Those "silos" were not meant to carry nukes. Watch the episode again. The nukes weren't able to fit inside correctly meaning that they were designed for something else. Loran used dirt to fill the space so that the nukes wouldn't jostle around while he was transporting them.

>>15570145

He directly asked people to discuss it and to make up their own timeline at the end of the same interview, so it almost certainly is just him being bemused by people's focus on canon and trying to have fun with it.

>>15570149

The Turn-A's silos weren't meant to house those nukes, we have no idea what kind of warheads it was meant to house and it could very well have been meant to house larger nuclear warheads. The Zaku II and Turn-A do both pack nuclear missiles though, so only adding a distinction after the fact is a little pointless. Especially when talking about the Turn-A which is quite definitely capable of greater destructive feats than a single nuke like the GP-02 packs. The Wing Zero, Epyon, Double X, 00 Raiser and probably at least a few others are capable of more destruction frankly, since even a large nuke is still just a nuke at the end of the day.

>>15570147
Truly the epitome of mobile suit design.

>>15570120
I don't think there are as many people opposed to it as you might think; the problem is that most AU literally CAN'T fit into even a 10,000 year timespan.

AU like AGE and Wing have very set definitions of the history of Gundam-type mobile suits, and usually even mobile suits as a concept. It's already nonsensical that humanity could go 10,000 years and never really change anything in society; it makes even less sense that a concept such as mobile suits could function the same but with different power sources with no explanation what happened to the old ones. What happened to GN Drives? What happened to Photon Batteries? Conversely, shows like X have MS essentially be exactly the same as from UC right down to the power source, but it's set in a timeline that is eerily similar but not quite the same. How do you justify UC taking place, then all the colonies being dropped, then them building entirely new colonies which look like comical floating depictions of certain countries, then a few hundred years later magically having weird boxy colonies with no indication that a colony had ever fallen? Some of the more recent shows like IBO and G-Reco try to hint they could fit in, for example with the Sydney crater on the world map. But the older ones are just so difficult to find a way for it to make sense. And really, it doesn't. Zelda was ruined by people trying to do the same thing. Gundam doesn't need that. Gundam is a concept that transcends timelines.

>>15570147
and it has a COW.

>>15570161
>What happened to GN Drives?
Destroyed by Space Whales during the genocide of the ELS.
>What happened to Photon Batteries?
Not even a question unless you assume that something else came after G-Reco (IBO, presumably, considering the damage to the moon).
>X have MS essentially be exactly the same as UC right down to the power source
Why is this a problem? It just means it's the closes to UC in the timeline.
>eerily similar
Even in UC the colony drop wasn't a singular event. Space colonists rebelling is "eerily similar" in almost every Gundam show.
>How do you justify
Well...UC takes place, then all the colonies are dropped, then people built new colonies. You just answered your own question.
>no indication that a colony had ever fallen
Tomino's setting notes indicate that some time after G Gundam DG Cells were used to resurface the entire earth (no, this is not referring to the Moonlight Butterfly because the setting notes also mention a second attempt by environmental wackos to use corrupted DG Cells to wipe out humanity on earth long before the Turn X was discovered).
>the Sydney crater on the world map
There are lots of craters on earth. Using the DG Cells to restore earth's surface kind of inherently means restoring it to a previous state, and if the map they used was post-0079 then that explains it easily. This also explains what happened to all those craters from X, before you ask.

>>15570123
>so what?
G-Reco and Turn A are more closely related than 00 and anything else.

>>15568534
I really wish they had just given it this face to begin with. The rest of the body is fine, but the Mead-designed face is just too retarded to take seriously.

There's something to be said for making the main Gundam look like an actual fucking Gundam. Otherwise, why even bother?

>>15570185

Turn-A itself indicates that the Moonlight Butterfly could have resurfaced the planet, since when the Dark History is playing out the characters indicate that part of the nanomachines functionality is to assimilate in to the Earth after they've been used. It's not directly stated that they resurfaced it, but when they're already assimilating in to the Earth it does give that impression.

>>15568682
Anon, you're a retard.

Also, HOLY SHIT TURN A. Now I gotta see this shit.

>>15568840
Yo, Type Choco Turn A looks slick as fuck. Kinda looks like an orbital frame if you change the head.

File: Turn A revision.jpg (95KB, 1024x768px) Image search: [Google]

95KB, 1024x768px

>>15568534
>How does /m/ feel about the Turn A gundam?
It's different, but personally I find it too sparse to be interesting. It's not just the lack of Katoki-ism, it's more that Gundam designs progressively built up to have all these cool features but somehow the Turn A seems more vanilla than the RX78.

>How do you feel about it being the strongest gundam?
Before we get into ACKSHULLY G-RECO, in show I find that makes it a rather boring suit. Other lead suits get trashed to fuck, but the Turn A curbstomps everything so much that battle scenes are rarely ever interesting until the final battle with Gym

>For those that don't like it, would you like it better if it was designed like this?
That looks like a coathook, so no.

I can live with the design of the original head, but like I said it's the lack of interesting features that drag the appearance down; also the chest area looks kind of stupid.

Pic related I like a little more, but the chest area still looks stupid, it's a fucking square with scribbles on it.

>>15570321
Aren't the little chest indents for all the stuff you can put inside?

>>15570185
I mean...that's a lot of mental gymnastics, Anon. Is all I'm saying.

>>15570154
> it could very well have been meant to house larger nuclear warheads.
No evidence of this whatsoever.

>The Zaku II and Turn-A do both pack nuclear missiles though, so only adding a distinction after the fact is a little pointless
Wrong. Your claim of "a nuke is just a nuke" ignores the fact that nuclear armament can have different yields depending on the weapon design. The Mk 82 being fairly advanced was able to destroy or incapacitate two-thirds of the Federation fleet with a single nuclear detonation.

>the Turn-A which is quite definitely capable of greater destructive feats than a single nuke like the GP-02 packs.
...Provided that has enough energy and nanomachines to do so. Then again, GP02 can always be reloaded with another warhead and sent back out into the field.

> The Wing Zero, Epyon, Double X, 00 Raiser and probably at least a few others are capable of more destruction frankly
No evidence of this.

>>15570202
>Turn-A itself indicates that the Moonlight Butterfly could have resurfaced the planet,
True, but according to Tomino's notes it would not be the first time it happened. Earth being resurfaced by properly functioning DG Cells already happened (at least) once prior to the Turn X being found.

>>15570366
>gymnastics
It's a short stroll from anon's questions to the answers being explicitly stated in Tomino's setting notes (published in "History Of Turn A" if you want to read them for yourself). The only backflip I did was jokingly suggesting that the Space Whales wiped out the ELS.

The fact that Devil Gundam's original puropse was to restore the environment is explicitly stated in G Gundam. The fact that DG Cells were later used to do exactly that is explicitly stated in Tomino's notes.

And I was actually joking about the Space Whales. My personal headcanon is that Evidence01 was actually just a whale like the ones they had in the Lunar Capital in Turn A, and is actually evidence of a forgotten Jupiter colony and not an alien life form.

The bottom line is that the story of Turn A doesn't actually explain everything. I'm okay with that because there could be any number of things that *could* explain the gaps in the story. You're not okay with it because it wasn't spoon-fed to you and you can't accept what the writer tells you without it being spelled out with no loose ends. The writer of Turn A Gundam says that it takes place after all the other calendar eras. If there are any mental gymnastics going on here, it's the people doing everything they can dance around the central premise of the story.

>>15568613
>Wing Zero and Epyon can predict the future
No, they just take information from the surrounding area and their supercomputing calculates the best option for achieving victory.
This system isn't even perfect since it fucks with the pilot's minds.

>>15570321
>he actually likes pic related
God, your taste is so shit. Soooooo shit. You fucking plebian. Disgusting.

>>15570592
Not him, but what's wrong with it?

Loran turned me gay

>>15570149
The Zaku II bazooka was 280mm, 120mm is the machine gun. But I agree this is the most sensible explanation within the show's logic, the idea that GPO2 shoots a way bigger nuke.

It's strange, nukes shouldn't really work in space. Without any matter it means that there's no real heat/blast, and just lots more radiation instead. Unless you literally fired the warhead INTO an enemy ship, I guess.

Meanwhile the GPO2 doesn't even appear to fire a warhead even if it loads one. It fires a gigantic ass energy beam(???). Is that ever explained? But also this beam makes a shockwave after being fired, such that the shield is necessary and the arm even gets damaged by it. I don't really understand what's going on there.

>>15570380

> no evidence of this whatsoever

I never said there was anon, I said there's no way of knowing it couldn't use nukes simply because the nukes the Moonrace found were too small for it's silos as you asserted. There is however some minor evidence the Turn-A is nuclear compatible, given that both the Turn-A and Turn-X can filter and protect the pilots against nuclear radiation, which, like the early Zaku II, there's little reason to do if they're not going to be around nukes. The chest silos are also called multi-silos, and are meant to fit a variety of missiles, not a single type.

> Wrong

Your original statement was that the GP-02 had a nuke. That's it. There was nothing about yield or size. You're adding those modifiers now, but they weren't there originally.

> ...provided that has enough energy and nanomachines to do so.

Why wouldn't it? It was inside some stone as a statue for at least a few centuries (intended originally to be millenia) after destroying all civilization and was able to use the system again after all that time without issue despite having no refill or maintenance in the meantime. The only time it might have had maintenance comes after the Moonlight Butterfly is first used, when Gym's faction has the unit and even then the only changes noted are some new guns fitted in the chest and that the system was simplified so Joseph found it easier to use. Nothing about energy or nanomachines being low or filled up is mentioned.

I get the feeling you've been reading the Gundam Wikia and think the Turn-A couldn't use the system until it met the Turn-X though, with the Wikia asserting one of the units has the energy but not the nanomachines and the other has the nanomachines but not the energy and that neither can use it until they meet. Which I've no idea where they pulled that idea from, given that there's nothing like that in the show.

>>15571016

> Then again, GP-02 can always be reloaded with another warhead and sent back out into the field

It'll also need repairs, since the shockwave damaged the unit despite being built to fire it.

> No evidence of this

Every one of those units has a weapon that can destroy large scale structures of several miles in one hit and can use them multiple times in a row without needing to reload. The Wing Zero destroyed a colony of 15 miles across if I recall, the Double X destroyed an island, Epyon destroyed Barge etc. Even if you want to contend that they can't cause as much direct damage in one hit, they can fire multiple times in rapid succession without issue where the GP-02 can only fire once and then has to leave to reload.

Someone help me make sense of Turn A Gundam

Dianna who has now switched places with Kihil is exploring earth and having flash backs of living on earth with who I believe was her husband

How? I thought this was the first time she visted it but she has carved her name in trees and remembered living in a house
Plus how old is she? The events act like they happened 100s of years ago because her husband is referred to an old ancestor that no one is old enough to remember

>>15568534
>How does /m/ feel about the Turn A gundam?
Don't like it.

>How do you feel about it being the strongest gundam?
Every Gundam claim to be this until a new one comes along. Remember G-Self?

>For those that don't like it, would you like it better if it was designed like this?
No.

>>15571172

About 200 or 300 years ago Dianna picked some Moonrace citizens to do something similar to what Loran, Fran and Keith do, bringing them to Earth and leaving them there to see if they could integrate and thrive. While she was there she fell in love with a guy called Will Game, with him leaving to find a bird as part of a challenge to show his love and promising he'd propose when he returned. He dies on the journey, Dianna and her retainers wait as long as they could and then return to the Moon where she's put in cold sleep, because most of the Moonrace are in cold sleep at any one time so as to prevent the spread of disease in a closed system like the Moon's cities. While most Moonrace citizens only come out of cold sleep a few times in their life at most and and are generally out of cold sleep for decades at a time, Dianna and a few other higher ups are in and out of cold sleep for a few years at most by the sounds of it and do it every few centuries when the government decides there is a need for them. Gym is another person who was in cold sleep a lot and is at least 2,500 years old because of it.

>>15570592
I really don't get the raging autism that Turn A MSVs attract

>>15571184
>/m/ is one person

>>15571215

I wish there were Turn-A MSVs. I'd love to see a few new units from the Correct Century and actual variants of like the FLAT, WaD, Eagail, Mahiroo and a few others. That's less an MSV and more a redesign.

>>15571200
Damn
And it explains it later? In so used to Gundam being so indirect and archaic when it comes to story telling

>>15571231

The cold sleep is somewhat explained later, though not all in one place and you do have to do some piecing together to get a clearer picture of it.

>>15571215
That's not an MSV. It's just the Turn A body kit with the Syd paint job but a traditional Gundam face.

A true MSV would be like someone finally designing the Dendro-esque Full Armor cloth outfit the Turn-A was said to have during its deployment where it could phase in all sorts of weapons from the cache of super weapons it had.

>>15571016
>Which I've no idea where they pulled that idea from, given that there's nothing like that in the show.
It's in one of the novelizations. iirc, it's the even-more-non-canon novel where the Turn A can resurrect a dead pilot, gate beams into enemy cockpits, etc. Even if I'm wrong on which of the two novelizations its from, it's non-canon either way.

We *do* see the Turn X get a jump-start from the Lunar Capital, seemingly indicating that its reactor was completely dormant and needed an influx of power to begin operation, but other than that there's no indication that either system's degeneracy reactor is in any way "low on power" or "low on nanomachines". I've also seen it argued that one unit had the nanomachines and the other had the *program* for the Moonlight Butterfly, but again that's nowhere to be seen in the actual show. It might also be in one of those two novels that NO ONE in these arguments has ever read, or it may just be a fan theory. Or maybe it's in some obscure bit of text from a Super Robot Wars game (you know how THOSE guys are about claiming their crossover game is somehow relevant to canon).

>>15571271

The Turn-X needs multiple jolts of all the electricity powering Ghengham city to get it to start yea. The Turn-X was the loser in it's fight against the Turn-A though, so it being worse off initially makes sense. The Turn-A however needs nothing of the type and powers up as soon as it detects an enemy unit, indicating it's been active, even if in a passive manner for all the time it's been in the statue.

File: AHtObV9.jpg (35KB, 600x482px) Image search: [Google]

35KB, 600x482px

Turn-A is for cows

Were A and X sentient albeit voiceless machines?
Consider how the White Doll took a shot at the invading force of Dumplings and Domes in episode 2, and also the way it became visibly 'angry' when it detected the Turn X.
Gym said that X remembered the scar that A inflicted, too.

>>15571332

I see it as Gym anthropomorphising the machines to make himself more comfortable with using machines while supposedly fighting for human instinct. The Turn-A was just preprogrammed to detect enemy units before it was buried and both were programmed to detect each other. Merrybell's Bandit sees the same intermixed Turn-A and Turn-X symbols when it happens, and the same symbol shows up when Guin, Did, Yanny and Michael are looking in the Black History's mobile suit records when they see Fuunsaiki and so on. It seems to be a general "get the fuck out of here, NOW!" alarm more than anything.

>>15568592
>God
Only because G is so damn different, Domon could probably just go.
"If I'm not worthy of this crest on my hand than don't stop the Turn A's nanomachine regeneration/any other ability"
and then the Turn A would lose regeneration or whatever.

>>15568629
Remember when the Turn A was almost taken down by a Zaku I?

>>15571349

No, because it was never almost taken down by one. It wrestled one for 5 seconds, with Loran noting that the unit was responding slowly and then pushing the Zaku right back before Lily breaks it up and Loran leaves to chase down some supplies. It was taken down by a punch from a SUMO, which isn't as unimpressive since it's not a known, old machine but is still a show that the unit has major weaknesses so I've no idea why you constantly use the Zaku thing when it's not actually true.

>>15568613
>Wing Zero and Epyon can predict the future

Based on the information they have and whatever they have reference for. If going up against the Turn A I would assume they would have no data on it beyond what ever their sensors were picking up in that moment. Far as I know nothing in Wing goes into how good the sensors in not only those specific MS but the entire setting in general are. I also don't know much about the Turn A so if it has any jamming capabilities I don't know about them.

The Zero System is a "predict the future" system, not a "see the future" system. It can't predict anything it doesn't have a reference on.

>>15571345

Most of the God's strength is in the pilot, not the machine. That's true of most G Gundam units, though that one butler's machine, the Devil Gundam and some others are exceptions. Mostly the units seem to act as conduits for the pilot's abilities and maybe low level force multipliers to make their attacks bigger but not things they're dependent on like other settings.

>>15571369
>Most of the God's strength is in the pilot, not the machine
FANON.
Nothing stated in the show actually supports this. It's just the go-to defense for Turnfags to disqualify the entire show because there's no conceivable way Loran could beat Domon.

>>15571386

The machines mirror the pilots movements and all their big attacks are stuff the pilot's practice on foot. Besides which Domon could probably beat the Turns on foot if it wasn't a fight in space, so you can take your strawman elsewhere.

>>15569979
But can it see why kids love cinnamon toast crunch?

>>15571392
>point out that nowhere in the show is it implied that "most of the [mobile fighter]'s strength comes from the pilot
>get called a strawman
So that part where Rain was piloting Rising Gundam.....

>>15570098
I'd actually like a series about Gym kicking around UC and doing fun shit.

>>15571399

> thinks that's the strawman argument
> not the "only people who want to excuse the Turn-A" bit

So what about Rain in the Rising Gundam exactly?

>>15570098
Are you implying that Gym was born in 200AD?

>>15571410
>not the "only people who want to excuse the Turn-A" bit
That's not a strawman, that literally happens every single time anyone tries to argue that God Gundam is more powerful than the Turn A. Someone *always* says that.

>>15570161
I remember reading some material for Wing and it said in that timeline the AC label on the calendar started with the launch of Skylab back in 1973. So they obviously had a world just like ours up to that point.

UC had a world just like ours up to a certain point to, can't remember the date they said they changed from AD to UC though.

But some people are going to try and convince me the world went through more or less the exact same development as ours, up to a point, at least TWICE?

>>15570185
UC then the 7th Space War leading to AW caused loss of much technological knowledge.
Earth and Colonies are rebuild in the new After Colony where "Newtypes" aren't worshipped anymore.
The events of Wing and EW caused the world to find an alternative to normal war in the form of the Gundam Fight which would result in the development of nanomachines.

No idea how to fit SEED, 00 and AGE in a pre-Turn A continuity without having people forgetting completely about the previous events

>>15571414

For even more crazy, Corin predates not just him but the Moonrace as a whole, so he's probably from like 2000BC or something in that case.

>>15571420

> It's not a strawman, it's just what I think your argument was even though it's nothing of the kind

>>15570953
>I don't really understand what's going on there.
nuke detonated inside the bazooka which directs the shockwave?

>>15571439
>it's just what I think your argument was
>I think your argument was
>think your argument was
>your argument was
>your argument
>your
Get over yourself, I was talking about the reason that idea was popularized. Whether or not it's the reason you repeated it, it IS the reason you heard it in the first place.

>>15571461

The reason I heard it in the first place was because I proposed it as an idea here years ago. Someone else may have done so before me, they may have even done so before me on this very board, but I didn't pick it up from that person if they did. Your strawman continues to be silly and incorrect, so please stop using it.

>>15571445
The visuals make it seem like it's similar to that fuckhuge beam gun from SEED that's powered by setting off a nuke. In the anime it clearly fires a beam that lasts several seconds, the opening in the barrel of the gun is clearly smaller than the warhead they load into it, etc, etc.

Unfortunately you'll never convince most of /m/ that it's a beam because video games always have it launch a warhead and, as we all know, super robot wars is more canon than the actual shows.

>>15570953
>Meanwhile the GPO2 doesn't even appear to fire a warhead even if it loads one. It fires a gigantic ass energy beam(???). Is that ever explained? But also this beam makes a shockwave after being fired, such that the shield is necessary and the arm even gets damaged by it. I don't really understand what's going on there.

I'd say the animation team didn't care. And this reminds me of arguments about the Leo in Wing.

>info says dobergun fires shells
>all the animation shows beams
>eventually people came up with the headcanon for one use "beam shells" which can be loaded into conventional weapons so they can fire beams

File: tot3p4x.jpg (74KB, 700x468px) Image search: [Google]

74KB, 700x468px

>>15571468
>strawman

File: [EG]Turn-A_Gundam_BD_47(1080p_10bit[6BA0F4DF].mkv_snapshot_09.02_[2016.03.27_20.05.20].jpg (115KB, 1440x1080px) Image search: [Google]

115KB, 1440x1080px

What state is Carbania supposed to be? I've looked at a US map but there's no state with a similar name, unlike Floria or Luzianna.

>>15571476

> Actual statement: the Gundams in G Gundam appear to mostly just be force multipliers and conduits, not actually powering the attacks themselves
> Statement you keep countering: The units in G Gundam are powerless and you are only asserting that as a way to take the G units out of a power level argument so Turn-A will look better
> Strawman: the typical straw man argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition through the covert replacement of it with a different proposition

You're replacing my actual statement with another argument that I didn't put forward at all, and then refuting that instead of discussing anything I said.

>>15571399
You mean the woman that's not a trained fighter?

>>15570380
>No evidence of this.
00 scarring a moonsize object. X blowing up a mountain.

>>15571491
>replacing my actual statement
No, I'm not.
I'm saying that there is NO evidence that the Gundams are only as powerful as the pilot. Remember that time a little kid got in one? Was the Gundam weak or did the kid almost die? Remember when Rain piloted? Was her Gundam demonstrably weaker than anyone else's? Remember George dueling with his fucking geriatric butler?
Nothing in the show indicates that the Gundam's strength is primarily dependent on the pilot *except* for Devil Gundam being stronger with a woman inside it and it's an entirely different animal (literally) from every other Mobile Fighter.
I'm not saying you're making this claim for reasons other than what you say you are. I'm just saying you're fucking wrong, regardless of the reason you're making this assertion.

If you're not myopically defending the clearly inferior Turn A, then you're just incorrect and not an incorrect turnfag. Either way, you're still incorrect.

File: tieria.png (68KB, 296x296px) Image search: [Google]

68KB, 296x296px

>>15571369
>Most of the God's strength is in the pilot, not the machine.
>God Gundam is noticeably more powerful than Shining Gundam
>That all the pilot guys!!!

>>15571531
Also Domon asking Rain if his new Gundam could also use the Shining Finger attack.

>>15568613
>Strike Freedom and Destiny have Voiture Lumiere which is an insane concept
Voiture lumiere as a concept makes no sense and if it's really a modified solar sail everything in SEED is a lot slower than we previously thought. Stargazer's voiture lumiere makes sense since it has to be hit by a very high power laser to start accelerating.

For contrast the Turn A pushed back a space cruiser that was going full throttle in an attempt to ram the Turn A, so its thrust actually is insane and combined with its extremely lightweight body means it could achieve some insane acceleration, and virtually infinitely since its I-field drive propulsion doesn't use propellant like most suits in the franchise do.

>>15570380
>Wrong. Your claim of "a nuke is just a nuke" ignores the fact that nuclear armament can have different yields depending on the weapon design. The Mk 82 being fairly advanced was able to destroy or incapacitate two-thirds of the Federation fleet with a single nuclear detonation.
The nuke in Turn A completely vaporized a city sized asteroid.

>>15571547
>as a concept makes no sense
Welcome to the wonderful world of giant robot warfare.
Abandon all physics, ye who enter here.

File: tumblr_nvp33iIIp61s50j4bo2_400.png (154KB, 284x298px) Image search: [Google]

154KB, 284x298px

>>15568534
The Turn A design is almost as bad as the design's from Felcher Gundam.

>>15571553
It makes no sense because the explanation makes no sense, even within the universe.

The voiture lumiere is just a fancy solar sail. That's how the Stargazer is described. It's expected to be slow but in theory gathers energy consistently so it won't have problems like running out of propellant, in theory. This is literally what the Stargazer's voiture lumiere is.

Just saying that they modified it for combat use just tells me they're still using the solar sail concept and the Strike Freedom and Destiny are slow as shit. It's really clear Stargazer was written by people who knew what they were doing or had significant help from Sunrise's technical researchers and Destiny's staff just tried to shoehorn in an explanation that contradicts its own universe to look cool.

>>15571521

I remember the kid not doing anything because he was in so much pain just from putting the mobile trace suit on and Rain not using any named attacks, just relying on the vulcans and beam saber. I also remember the Butler Bennsonmarru being a completely different type of unit that had a different cockpit setup and didn't use the mobile trace at all.

>>15571531

> it's impossible that units that act as conduits and force multipliers could be differentiated in strength, speed, maneuverability etc. in any way

To be clear, I'm not saying the units in G are complete shitboxes that couldn't move if not for a trained pilot and the pilot provides all the power for them, I'm saying the units don't seem innately capable of using named attacks and the pilot is the one who provides those, which are their major strength.

>>15568534
>How does /m/ feel about the Turn A gundam?

Good

>How do you feel about it being the strongest gundam?

Good

>For those that don't like it, would you like it better if it was designed like this?

I like the Turn A so your designs don't do anything. Honestly they're neither here nor there. If you want a classic design then the moustaches look out of place and quite stupid.

>>15571564
>t relying on the vulcans and beam saber
and Rising Gundam's bow. She was pretty proficient with that.
>>15571564
>the units don't seem innately capable of using named attacks
Again, Domon specificall asks Rain if the God Gundam is equipped with Shining Finger.

Now, if you were talking about the Super/Hyper modes, then you would have a valid point. There was, after all, a whole arc about Domon needing to attain inner peace in order to activate it. Followed by the rest of the Royal Flush gang apparently being unaware that their Gundams could even do that.

But was Domon even in Super Mode when he stood up under 2,000 times earth's gravity or whatever it was? And think again about that kid who couldn't stand up in Shining Gundam. The Gundam itself is extremely powerful, BUT the mobile trace system places strain on the pilot in direct proportion to the resistance it is encountering. Think of it like a large-caliber handgun. It is extremely powerful in and of itself, so much so that it can only be used by someone who is strong enough to handle it. Even if the God Gundam itself, on auto-pilot or whatever, is strong enough to stand under the force of that ridiculous magnet, with the mobile trace system you still need someone who's strong enough to punch an apartment building out of the ground to actually perform the standing motion in it. I have no problem relegating things like Sekiha Tenkyoken to "ninja magic" rather than weapon systems, but I don't buy the idea that the Gundam just multiplies the pilot's strength. I think it's more a case of a strong weapon requiring a strong user to control it.

>>15571016
>There is however some minor evidence the Turn-A is nuclear compatible, given that both the Turn-A and Turn-X can filter and protect the pilots against nuclear radiation, which, like the early Zaku II, there's little reason to do if they're not going to be around nukes.
Minor protection from nuclear radiation is not the same as being nuclear capable.

>You're adding those modifiers now, but they weren't there originally.
That's because you were the one who was trying to compare the smaller nukes that the Zaku where equipped with before the Antarctic treaty with the one GP02 used at Solomon when you said "a large nuke is still just a nuke." You're effectively trying to argue that a .22LR bullet is as devastating as a .308 Winchester by lumping all bullet cartridges together despite the huge gaps in performance.

>Which I've no idea where they pulled that idea from, given that there's nothing like that in the show.
You answered your own question. The only time we ever see the full effect of the MB was from the archival footage of the Dark History. There is no indication that the ∀ still had full MB capability at the time the show takes place and the fluff backs it up. Everything we saw of the nanomachines during CC era was minor in comparison.

>It'll also need repairs
Only the left arm was immobilized which is pretty minimal damage and it would not have prevented GP02 from firing another warhead.

>The Wing Zero destroyed a colony of 15 miles across if I recall, the Double X destroyed an island, Epyon destroyed Barge
Any advanced mobile platform from the late-OYW could destroy colonies and ships.

> Even if you want to contend that they can't cause as much direct damage in one hit, they can fire multiple times in rapid succession without issue where the GP-02 can only fire once
That's kind of the point. GP02 only ever needs to fire once with the intention that it would never have to fire at the same target again.

>>15571551
>The nuke in Turn A completely vaporized a city sized asteroid.
It had to use two nukes for that Regardless, the nukes don't seem to be standard equipment which is why it had to use dirt to carry them in the chest compartment.

File: Merrybell makes an ionic typhoon.webm (3MB, 1440x1080px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 1440x1080px

>>15571605

> Minor protection from nuclear radiation is not the same as being nuclear capable

I didn't say it was anon. The point is that saying that one size of nuke didn't fit in the silo is proof it's not capable of using any nuke is fallacious reasoning.

> when you said "a large nuke is still just a nuke"

When I said a large nuke is still just a nuke I meant it in comparison to something like the Moonlight Butterfly, which is capable of much more specific but wide spread damage than any nuke, regardless of size.

> The only time we ever see the full effect of the MB was from the archival footage

By that definition we never see the full effect of the Moonlight Butterfly. We see Merrybell do exactly as much damage in the present as the archival footage in the past shows and there is nothing at all in the show that indicates that the Moonlight Butterfly is less capable in the present than it is in the past, only that it hasn't been used to that extent.

The idea it might have been undercuts the horror that Dianna, Midgard, Corin, Loran and others have at the idea it might be used at full power again by Gym or Merrybell if they keep it, or that the two Turn units might unleash it by accident simply by fighting. She's also using it with an incomplete system when she does so anyway, since Fran and Loran discuss around the same time the fact that the Turn-A and Moonlight Butterfly can't operate at full power without it's intended cockpit.

> it would not have prevented the GP02 from firing another warhead

It also isn't guaranteed that will be the only possible damage, only that the unit isn't capable of withstanding it's own weapon fully.

> Any advanced mobile platform from the late-OYW could destroy colonies and ships

And they destroyed colonies and ships by taking out one small part and then letting the whole succumb to that damage, which in the case of colonies could take a while. The Wing Zero, Epyon, Double X etc. took them out completely in one shot.

>>15571597
>Again, Domon specificall asks Rain if the God Gundam is equipped with Shining Finger.
the Finger attack might be a system specifically developed to concentrate energy in the hand mimicking the pilot, which would otherwise be impossible or much less effective.

>>15571663

> GP-02 only ever needs to fire once

It only needed to fire once that time because all it's targets were bunched up. If the targets are disparately located it'll have to hope they stay still and let it resupply between shots. None of the other units have that problem.

>>15571642

Of course those ones aren't standard equipment. Those nukes were just some nukes the Moonrace dug up out of a random site where they were buried centuries ago and weren't intended for the Turn-A specifically to use. The Moonlight Butterfly is though.

>>15571605
>There is no indication that the ∀ still had full MB capability at the time the show takes place
And there is no evidence that it doesn't.
Except, of course, for that non-canon novel that neither you, I, nor anyone else in this thread has or will ever read.

>>15571669
>might be a system specifically developed to concentrate energy in the hand mimicking the pilot
Or it might be a weapon built into it. Unlike the Sekiha Tenkyoken we never see Domon do a Shining Finger outside of his Gundam. He duplicates a lot of his martial arts attacks with the Gundam, but notice that the long, drawn-out announcement that precedes every usage of the Shining Finger does not include "SCHOOL OF THE UNDEFEATED OF THE EAST" that he identifies his other techniques as. It's actually pretty fucking basic for a "technique" since it's really just "grab head and squeeze".

Sure, we can sit here and theorize that maybe Shining Finger only works with a mech that has systems in the hand to concentrate PARTICLE energy and that it's this hand-energy system that Domon manipulates in the same way that he manipulates his chi to throw a fireball with his Gundam. But let's compare this to a real-world martial arts technique....laijutsu for example. Suppose a mech has a sword with a hilt, designed for the sword-drawing strike like a katana. A normal person who doesn't know laijutsu won't be able to do that attack even though the mech is equipped for it. It requires a pilot who is able to direct the mech to perform that attack. That doesn't mean the strength of the *mech* comes from the pilot, it just means the pilot knows how to do a strong attack with the weapons that the mech is equipped with. Even if you remove that pilot, that technique is still part of what that mech is designed to do.`

>>15571717
>a sword with a hilt
*with a scabbard

>>15571717
>Unlike the Sekiha Tenkyoken we never see Domon do a Shining Finger outside of his Gundam
The clown did it

>>15571717

He might not be using it outside the Gundam because crushing is really all it's good for, and he's not really that kind of guy. He's angry, not violent. He also doesn't shout "School of the Undefeated of the East" a lot of the time before using attacks, including the Tenkyoken, which is the School's ultimate technique. Master Asia doesn't always exclaim it either. You could theorize that because he doesn't do it he can't do it, but considering what he can do, including a very similar technique involving making his hands glow and projecting energy for a tenkyoken doing so seems kind of arbitrary and silly.

Also, while your example could be the case, it also may not be. No non-fighter ever uses a named technique in the Gundams, not even when piloting them and doing so would be beneficial by virtue of being quicker and more definitive. Sure, that might mean there is a weapon they're simply not capable of using or choosing not to use, it could also mean that the weapon simply isn't there for them to use.

>>15571793
You missed the point.
The swordsman doing laijutsu is doing a named attack with a weapon that anyone can use. Just because you don't use your sword to do laijutsu doesn't mean the sword is inherently stronger in someone else's hands, it just means you don't know that technique.

Continuing with the laijutsu example, not every sword can be used for that technique ("Can this Gundam also use Shining Finger?"). It won't work with a straight blade, that's the reason that katana are curved like that, to enable laijutsu. Just because a person uses a katana but doesn't use laijutsu does not mean that katana is not capable of laijutsu, it just means the person doesn't know how. Just because Rain using Shining Gundam doesn't use named attacks doesn't mean that the Shining Gundam can't do them anymore, it just means that she doesn't know how.

>>15571829

I got the point anon, I even stated that she may not know how to use it but I also said your example is inconclusive without further evidence much like the show. So using it doesn't actually prove anything.

>>15571861
>your example is inconclusive without further evidence
As is your assertion.
I am merely pointing out that "the power comes from the pilot" is not the only rational explanation. Honestly, though, I don't understand why "it multiplies your power" makes more sense to you that "it can do that if you know how". But I do find it rather funny that you require proof for my assertion but not for your own.

Why does the episode "all about turn a gundam" exist
Is it to spit in the face of the fans? How can they possibly count it as an ?

>>15571663
>The point is that saying that one size of nuke didn't fit in the silo is proof it's not capable of using any nuke is fallacious reasoning.
Even more fallacious is saying that the ∀ can equip nukes despite there being no evidence of this anywhere.

>We see Merrybell do exactly as much damage in the present as the archival footage in the past shows and there is nothing at all in the show that indicates that the Moonlight Butterfly is less capable in the present than it is in the past, only that it hasn't been used to that extent.
Footage from the archives show a much brighter and more opaque yellow-colored MB. When used in CC era, it's pink/purple/green implying less powerful than it was in the past and also transparent implying a less dense concentration of nanomachines. The MB used in CC looks visually similar to the beginning of the MB in the archival footage when it's getting ready to deploy the full-powered MB. Furthermore the sandstorm that the MB kicks up in the old footage is thicker at ground level than the storm that formed when Merrybell used it in the CC era.

>Fran and Loran discuss around the same time the fact that the Turn-A and Moonlight Butterfly can't operate at full power without it's intended cockpit.
The core fighter is just a control module. It doesn't actually power the suit. What Loran said was in reference to the jerry-rigged cockpit that was installed in its place. The replacement cockpit isn't as good as the original equipment it was designed for in the same way you wouldn't use a hockey stick to play golf.

>>15571673
>If the targets are disparately located it'll have to hope they stay still and let it resupply between shots.
Both inconsequential because that didn't happen and irrelevant because the Mk 82 was never intended to be used against spaceships anyway. The Feds' naval review was just an opportune moment to use it which is but one of the reasons why Delaz targeted GP02 to be stolen in the first place.

>>15571911
Because way back in the twentieth century when this show was made, people couldn't download dvd rips yet. People actually watched scheduled broadcasts every week on "television" which was kind of like youtube but without user-submitted content. So sometimes people would start with the third, fifth, even tenth episode because the first episode had already been shown and wouldn't be re-run until after the series was over. Also you could only watch the show during its "time slot", not just whenever you want like you kids do today. Sometimes you had other things you couldn't miss, like birthday parties, anniversaries, or court dates, and you just had to accept the fact that you were going to miss an episode (unless you knew how to program your VCR). So they had these things called "recap episodes" for the people who missed a few episodes to catch up on all the important plot points.

>>15571677
The moonlight butterfly as seen in the dark history (the one that destroyed civilization) is visibly different from the one used during the time of the show.

>>15571988
pics or it didn't happen

File: Turn A 2.png (2MB, 1443x737px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1443x737px

>>15571992
Here's the Turn A's MB as shown during the dark history

File: Turn A.png (3MB, 1797x890px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 1797x890px

>>15571992
And here is that same MB just seconds before, probably during its "charge up" phase of the attack

File: Turn A 3.png (1MB, 876x681px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 876x681px

>>15571992
And a shot of the MB during the fight with turn X

>>15572008
>>15572012
Turn A is such a simple design. How did they fuck up animating it?

>>15572008
You're talking about the wing colors?
I thought you meant the black swirling clouds left behind by Merrybell were somehow different from the black swirling clouds left behind in the Black History files.

>>15568840
I love Mead's original art for the Turn A it translated well into the animated version.

>>15571349
Borjanons aren't Zakus.
They're copies like ZAKUs or RF Zakus.

>>15572571
But the Borjanons have the exact same specs. The ZAKUs and RF Zakus only kept the base aesthetics while having completely different parts and performance.

>>15568592
Gundam sandrock. Cant turn sand into sand right? rekkkt

>>15570173
can't forget the COW!

>>15568583
WHEN WILL BANDAI GIVE ME A TURN X 144

>>15571438
You can't place those, i've tried.
00 is out current AD timeline so no dice there since that is in the 2300s and UC starts in 2045.
SEED was originally suppose to be set after G-Savior and depict the Newtype Vs Realtype war. It was made into an EU instead.
AGE is a UC redo.
G-Reco = 500 years post Turn A

File: AmeriaMap.png~original.png (948KB, 1481x1002px) Image search: [Google]

948KB, 1481x1002px

>>15571486
here ya go, the translated map.

>>15572677
No shit man, i'd buy it,

File: Moonlight Butterfly 02.webm (1MB, 1440x1080px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1440x1080px

>>15571981

> Even more fallacious is saying that the ∀ can equip nukes despite there being no evidence of this anywhere.

Well then, it's probably a good thing I never said it could.

> What Loran said was in reference to the jerry-rigged cockpit that was installed in its place

I did actually say that it was in reference to that, so I've no idea why you feel the need to clarify that. He still says it can't operate at peak efficiency (i.e. can't operate at full power) without it's intended cockpit.

> inconsequential because that didn't happen

The point is that the GP-02's nuclear bazooka is a specialized weapon with a limited purpose and can neither be used to target disparate targets (which accounts for more than ships) or repeatedly without resupply.

>>15572012

Look at how insubstantial it's wings are, you can see right through them. It must be running low on nanomachines if they're like that. No way it can use the Moonlight Butterfly to destroy all technology all spread out like that. It sure is useful that when it's insubstantial in the present you get to decide what it means and when it's insubstantial in the past you get to decide why that indicates a different thing.

>>15572017

You appear to be operating under the assumption the Moonlight Butterfly nanomachines have a single purpose and can't be used for anything else, despite them being what repairs and maintains the unit for centuries, filtering impurities like radiation to protect the pilot, acting as a barrier, acting as wings etc. That's the Moonlight Butterfly nanomachines, but it isn't the Moonlight Butterfly attack. Here's a shot from a few minutes after >>15572017 where the wings are much more in line with the ones of the past. A shot that has both units looking almost identical to >>15572012 in wing transparency.

>>15573676
>despite them being what repairs and maintains the unit for centuries
At a laughably slow rate compared to DG cells.

File: Moonlight Butterfly 01.webm (822KB, 1440x1080px) Image search: [Google]

822KB, 1440x1080px

>>15573676

And here's a shot of it from episode 49 where it's more opaque than at any time in the past.

>>15573682

I didn't say otherwise, but thank you for your needless contribution.

>>15573682

I want to ask you about how you think the nanomachines work though anon, since your posts imply that you think it has a finite store of them that can run low or run out, which is stored somewhere on the robot. A store that it uses to destroy all technology on Earth, before coating at least a half dozen stores of select pieces of technology in nanoskin to maintain it, then burying itself and maintaining itself for centuries and then fighting several battles using the nanomachines before it's destroyed. That would take a lot of nanomachines. Enough that they'd be notable somewhere on something relatively small, yet there's nowhere so much matter could reasonably be stored. The legs are thrusters, the waist is a core fighter, the chest is mostly empty weapon silos and the head is sensors.

The only explanation that makes any sense is that they're basically infinitely self-replicating and can do so at a near instant rate. All it would need is a small store of nanomachines to duplicate whenever more are needed. Something that would leave it essentially incapable of running low, since either it would almost instantly run out or they'd just stop working, not work just enough to replicate some but not enough like you're suggesting. Something you say is implied by the color and transparency on a technology that is visually defined by it's color shifting in the first place. Which isn't a very convincing argument.

You keep castigating me for saying that the Turn-A had nukes on little evidence (despite not actually saying that), but then want to argue the Moonlight Butterfly is low on power or ability to spread based on no real evidence beyond your own evidence.

>>15572571
>>15572583

Sochie says the Borjarnons in the Dark History archive are a little different looking than the ones she's familiar with when she sees footage of the RX-78-2 throwing a Zaku II from Mobile Suit Gundam, so there may be some visual difference that the characters are seeing but which isn't actually obvious to an audience I guess. The Kapool does look a little different to a Capule though, while the Borjarnon looks identical to a Zaku so it's weird that they didn't include even some minor differences if that was what was supposed to be the case.

>>15573681
Setting guide says MLB nanomachines are derived from DG cells that were redesigned to include cell death to prevent self-evolution and unexpected growth

>>15573676
>Well then, it's probably a good thing I never said it could.
Somebody did in >>15570154 when they said "It could very well have been meant to house larger nuclear warheads."

>so I've no idea why you feel the need to clarify that.
Because you are attributing Merrybell's weaker MB to her having a jerry-rigged cockpit when there is no connection between using the MB and the core fighter. The core fighter is not a power unit.

>The point is that the GP-02's nuclear bazooka is a specialized weapon with a limited purpose
Again, it's irrelevant. The bazooka is meant to decimate pretty much anything making it one of the most devastating weapons we've seen anywhere in Gundam which is my point.

File: Cockpit Efficiency.webm (853KB, 1440x1080px) Image search: [Google]

853KB, 1440x1080px

>>15573822

> Somebody did
> "It could well have"

Do you seriously not understand the difference between a definite declaration and an ambiguous one like that?

> you are attributing Merrybell's weaker MB

I'm not, for the simple reason that I don't actually see how it's weaker at all. Your theorycrafting on color changes isn't convincing or based on any kind of evidence. However Loran and Fran do say the unit can't function at peak efficiency without it, and peak efficiency in that context can really only refer to power. The core fighter doesn't have to be a power unit to regulate the power of the machine, just like the Raiser regulated 00's power despite not powering it.

> it's irrelevant

Declaring it's irrelevant doesn't actually make it so. The discussion is about power, and if your power can only be harnessed once in a limited capacity before running out it's limits are relevant in a discussion about power.

> one of the most devastating weapons we've seen anywhere in Gundam

It's not though, multiple weapons from multiple shows out do. The Devil Gundam, The Wing Zero's Buster rifle, X and Double X's satellite cannons as well as the Virsago Chest Breakers one, Turn-A's Moonlight Butterfly and the 00 Raiser's Raiser Sword at the very least out do. Destroying a fleet is no more impressive than anything any of those did, while all of them have weapons that can be used multiple times in quick succession.

>>15573682
Still quite sporadic and not as contiguously bright yellow as in the archives. As you said, not the MB attack itself, but still visually different from the Dark History one in >>15572008.

Thing is that each time we see the actual attack from either of the Turns during the present time, it's transparent pink/purple and is far less devastating. Even the nearby space ships and MS were able to wisthstand the attack.

File: Loran uses the Turn-A's barrier.webm (3MB, 1440x1080px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 1440x1080px

>>15573850

Because it wasn't a "eat everything attack". The ships have shields put up to try to contain it, but it's pretty clearly not an eat everything attack because it doesn't try to eat anything that's not shielded, like Sochie and Mieshi's units. It's a barrier, same as when Loran used one against the Gendarme's missiles, not an attack. The two units do start using it in a much more explicitly attack manner near the end of their fight, but they finish it seconds later and the tendrils reach out and start grabbing things, like Gym's sword in an active manner that wasn't present in the rest of the moments its in use.

Pic related: this is the same effect, but it's clearly defensive and isn't actively eating anything besides the missiles.

File: Moonlight Butterfly 03.webm (2MB, 1440x1080px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1440x1080px

>>15573856

And here's the two units a minute or so before they destroy each other and are put into an egg by their nanomachines going wild. Note how their wings are much more definite and the colors more opaque. Not that I think that alone indicates "dinner time", but it's in the show regardless.

File: Corin Nander was a cool dude.webm (3MB, 720x540px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 720x540px

>>15573861

Even more obvious is Corin's death, where the nanomachines lance out and slice his unit in two without any apparent intention from either pilot since their units are locked up and everyone, including Corin who is familiar with the units from before the Correct Century by his own word, thinks they're about to release the Moonlight Butterfly.

>>15571877

It makes more sense to me because almost all the named attacks are things the pilots can do out of a cockpit, and the fighting in the show revolves around named attacks. And because guys that can't do named attacks like Gentle Chapman don't use named attacks in combat. I also wasn't looking for proof from you to prove your assertion, nor do I believe I ever asked for any - I was just stating my own opinion on the matter. You were the one who challenged my assertion.

>>15573874
I just noticed that the MLB shoots out of the Turn X's asshole

>>15573925

Only appropriate for something that can shit out nanomachines.

>>15573844
>Do you seriously not understand the difference between a definite declaration and an ambiguous one like that?
The difference is that there is no evidence within the context that it was ever equipped with nukes. Saying that "it could have" with no evidence to suggest that it ever did is as ambiguous in meaning as a Trump tweet.

>Your theorycrafting on color changes isn't convincing or based on any kind of evidence.
It's based on evidence provided to us from the show. It's an irrefutable that the MB from the dark history is visually different from the any time during the events of the show and the scope of damage from the attack is also more impactful in the Dark History as referenced by the characters themselves and in comparison to the damage (and lack thereof) when we it activated in the CC era.

>if your power can only be harnessed once in a limited capacity before running out it's limits are relevant
Again, that point no longer matters when whatever the target is assuredly destroyed. You really only need the one warhead to accomplish objective. Needing to use more than one is both unnecessary and reckless anyway which is why it's irrelevant.

>Destroying a fleet is no more impressive than anything any of those did
None of the other MS you mentioned were able to incapacitate the majority of the enemy's overall forces in a single shot.

>>15573856
I'm not arguing that the nano machines have multiple uses.

What I'm saying is that the moonlight butterfly attack -- the actual attack -- was shown to be far stronger in the past than any time we see it during the events of the show.

>>15573956

> Saying that "it could have" with no evidence

"It could have" doesn't mean "it did have". My statement it may have had nukes was meant to illustrate that we have no idea whether it did or not, because we don't, and to stand in opposition to your argument that it definitely didn't because the one nukes that were around didn't fit. Which makes no sense.

> It's an irrefutable that the MB from the Dark History is visually different

Yes, it's irrefutable that the colors on a color changing set of wings were different. What is refutable is that that means anything. Which there's nothing to say it does.

> the scope of the damage is also more impactful

Also refutable, since all we see is the Turn-A destroy a port and a big thundercloud, both in the past and in the present. We're told the one in the past spread further (and have no reason to doubt it), but just because the one in the present wasn't spread further doesn't mean it couldn't.

> as referenced by the characters themselves

The only character familiar with both is Corin, and all he says is that the damage Merrybell did is only a fraction of what it can do. Not what it did do, not what it was capable of; what it could be capable of. Which is ambiguous at worst, but is not definitve proof that the unit is not capable of more or that the one in the past was more capable than the current one.

> that no longer matters when whatever the target is assuredly destroyed

It does however matter if you have multiple targets.

> None of the other MS you mentioned were able to incapacitate the majority of the enemy's overal forces in a single shot

Because none of the others faced an enemy who put all their forces in one small area with no defenses. You are trying to argue that the result to the enemy in one specific circumstance is more important than what a weapon can theoretically do, which might be true when discussing politics or something, but isn't true when discussing the power of a weapon.

>>15573991

And I'm saying you are arguing with no actual proof and that the point you are trying to argue is both narratively and thematically injurious to the show so unlikely to be true regardless.

>>15573997
>My statement it may have had nukes was meant to illustrate that we have no idea whether it did or not, because we don't
The problem with saying that is that it suggest that anything and everything in Gundam could have had nukes -- even the well documented ones -- which is simply not the case. Something like the Zeta for example was not regarded as being nuclear capable anywhere, but you're logic posits that "it could have" which is absurd.

>What is refutable is that that means anything. Which there's nothing to say it does.
Unfortunately, that's false. We are presented with the difference and told the effects by the characters within the context of the show itself.

>all we see is the Turn-A destroy a port and a big thundercloud, both in the past and in the present.
Again, quite a big visual difference in the effects shown from the archives versus the one we're presented with in the present time. The Dark History shows a dark storm with zero visibility rise up instantly as the Gundam passes by. When Merrybell does her fly-by, the storm is far less intense.

>The only character familiar with both is Corin, and all he says is that the damage Merrybell did is only a fraction of what it can do.
Yes, that is the point I've been driving at for several posts now.

>It does however matter if you have multiple targets.
Watch the episode again. The ships were actually quite spread out.

>Because none of the others faced an enemy who put all their forces in one small area with no defenses.
It was two-thirds of a military fleet and they were all firing at Gato. It's pretty difficult to get any more defense than that. And again, the ships were spread a fair distance from each other.

>>15570953
Actually, we don't see a "beam" at all. All we see is a bright flash of light. Most likely overly showy flashback from the warhead blast.

File: The horror of the Turn-A.webm (1MB, 960x720px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 960x720px

>>15574338

> The problem with saying that is that it suggest that anything and everything in Gundam could have had nukes

Not really, because nothing else in Gundam has a secret past that is only partially filled in and uses a weapon silo literally called a "multi-silo" that houses multiple weapons during the show and has a weapon cache of which we only saw one weapon in use. There's a pretty big and obvious difference in knowledge between the Turn-A and Zeta for instance.

> Unfortunately, that's false. We are presented with the difference and told the effects by the characters within the context of the show itself.

Unfortunately, that's false. The differences are superficial and no character in the show ever passes comment on the quality or extent of the damage the Turn-A does, the color of the wings or whether the Turn-A is no longer possible of doing a full Moonlight Butterfly. The sheer horror Corin, Dianna and multiple other parties express at the idea of it using the Moonlight Butterfly again and the fact they talk several times about how it could cause the same event a second time also highly suggests it's not actually weakened.

> When Merrybell does her fly-by, the storm is far less intense.

When Merrybell does her fly-by there's exactly as much visibility and then the camera cuts to a ground level view of devastation, while in the Dark History as soon as the Turn-A fills the screen the camera cuts to an atmosheric view of the cloud. There's a difference, but it's not in intensity, since both show storm clouds filled with lightning stretch over a large distance.

> Yes, that is the point I've been driving at for several posts now.

I'm aware, it's also worthless as proof since it's an ambiguous statement at best and is just as likely to mean "it could cause that damage to more of the Earth" as "it could cause more damage to any one area".

>>15574772

> They're actually quite spread out

Not really.

> It was two-thirds of a military fleet and they were all firing at Gato

And yet not there was not a single perimeter defense, no ships or suits not on parade. It's not hard to imagine more defense, because all you to have to do is imagine anything at all on defense, instead of setting itself up to look pretty.

>>15574774
Did you miss the part where Gato and his escorts were detected and attacked by defense turrets?

File: Federation Fleet Show.png (874KB, 1366x768px) Image search: [Google]

874KB, 1366x768px

>>15574774

Here's a shot to show how "spread out" they are by the way. Which is to say, they aren't. As for all of them firing on Gato, three or four shps fire on him as he approaches and that's it. When he's lining up his shot and giving his speech, nothing is shooting at him.

File: [EG]Gundam_0083_09_BD(1080p_10bit)[7FD5E0BA].mkv_snapshot_19.14_[2017.05.31_01.22.25].jpg (344KB, 1440x1080px) Image search: [Google]

344KB, 1440x1080px

>>15574785
>>15574774
Or the part where the Feddy defensive outposts were knocked out by Delaz's forces on the way in to the naval review?

>>15574790
Or the part where the Feds deploy several dozen mobile suit squads as reinforcements when Delaz started attacking the defensive outposts on the edge of the naval review site?

https://youtu.be/YwPufALUa7M?t=984

>>15574772
>nothing else in Gundam has a secret past that is only partially filled in
It's fiction. There's nothing else to "fill in" because anything outside of what the audience is presented with never happened.

>literally called a "multi-silo"
Because there're multiple silos.

>houses multiple weapons during the show
False. Loran just uses it as a storage compartment. The nukes it carried in there were obviously not designed for it and cows are not weapons.
Come to think of it, do we ever see it being used for the intended purpose during the show at all?

>The differences are superficial and no character in the show ever passes comment on the quality or extent of the damage
Unfortunately the differences also coincide with the damage it was doing. Agrippa mentioned the scope, Corin confirmed that was capable of much more than what Merrybell did. Saying that it's just superficial undermines the animation of the show and by extension the story itself.

>sheer horror Corin, Dianna and multiple other parties express at the idea of it using the Moonlight Butterfly again
A reasonable response given that they know it just destroyed a town.

>they talk several times about how it could cause the same event a second time
This doesn't actually happen. Every time they talk about it destroying civilization it's in reference to the archives. They never speak of it that it WILL do it again (mostly because they know that that isn't Gym/Guin's goal). Regardless, in their minds they can only assume that the ∀ is still fully capable and would rather not gamble on it.

>There's a difference, but it's not in intensity, since both show storm clouds filled with lightning stretch over a large distance.
The storm in the dark history was thicker with zero visibility and several large funnel cloud formations. In Merrybell's storm, it was possible to make out fields and mountains in the distance even at ground level and only small dust devils instead larger funnel clouds.

File: maxresdefault.jpg (172KB, 652x1444px) Image search: [Google]

172KB, 652x1444px

>>15574774
>>15574788

You really should watch the episode again. There was a defense going on with several ships, automated turrets, and other MS shooting at Gato before they even realized that it was him. Even the crew of the Albion where going after him.

And in the above shot of Konpei/Solomon you can see that it there are ships arranged in flotillas gathered all around it. As Gato zooms in on the targeting screen, we see that each flotilla is comprised of ships 200-500m long. This gives us the impression that the area in which the naval review takes place is dozens of kilometers wide.

>>15568534
I fucking hate the redesigns of the Turn A.
The whole appeal to me is it looks like it came so far from the future it's forgone the design philosophy of the previous gundam models.
At first I didn't like it, but watching the show the whole suit just oozes cool without actually trying to be something it's not.
Also more mecha need to use flails, the gundam hammer is one of my favorite weapons and it's used a total of like four times.

>>15575099
Then make your own mecha show retard

>>15568534
Most underwealming gundam with the stupidest plot armour.

>>15568583
feelio when sold out at Banzai Hobby.
I don't want to drop 40 extra dollars just to buy it off ebay or shit like that.

>>15572684
>Hughes is Houston

Heh, well Howard Hughes can still fuck it.

It looks lovely, which fits a lovely show

I love the long, rounded legs and spherical head, which are very different from the typical samurai armor-inspired Gundam design. You get a real sense of size and elegance from the Turn-A.

>>15569633
>I honestly can't comprehend why they would get a filthy gaijin like Syd Mead to design such a prominent Gundam.

Dude was a designer on Blade Runner, Aliens, 2010, and Tron. Who wouldn't want Syd Mead?

>>15575359
Japanese people who don't give a shit about those movies, that's who.

I'm glad they did, though, it shows someone has a brain high up in Sunrise.

And don't throw a list of accolades out at me. You think I'm on /m/ and don't know who Syd Mead is?

File: Amerian Manufacturing.webm (3MB, 1440x1080px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 1440x1080px

There's going to be a lot of posts here, since I made a good few webms to help refute points.

>>15574950

> There's nothing else to "fill in" because anything outside of what the audience is presented with never happened

The audience is presented with the fact that they are not given the full information on the Turn-A or all it's weapons. That lack of knowledge is actually in the show, so it has happened. The Turn-A is regularly presented as a mystery, and as that mystery pertains to the weapons specifically then the only weapons ever put in the chest silos are manufactured by other people and there is a weapon cache under Nocis, most of which is unused and unusable. Which leaves the question of what was actually intended to be put in there; something that is never answered.

> False. Loran just uses it as a storage compartment.

I mean, I guess that's technically true since he's storing missiles the militia made there along with some guns.

File: Breast Fire.webm (3MB, 1440x1080px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 1440x1080px

>>15576154

Joseph is the one who uses the actual beam guns, not Loran. Note though that the beam guns emerge from the same slot that some missiles were coming from in the other webm, meaning that one of the changes Gym made was putting the beam guns in there given that Loran never uses or alludes to them and they only appear after Gym takes it.

> Agrippa mentioned the scope

He mentioned the scope of the damage the Turn-A did in the past, not the present.

File: Turn-A's true state.webm (530KB, 1440x1080px) Image search: [Google]

530KB, 1440x1080px

>>15576163

> Corin confirmed that was capable of much more than what Merrybell did

Why do you keep saying this when what he said is demonstrably an ambiguous statement that may not be referring to the amount of damage possible in one area? Or even solely to it's use of the Moonlight Butterfly really, since his statement was only that the unit was capable of further horrors, not that the Moonlight Butterfly specifically was capable of causing greater damage in one area. It having further systems that are horrifying being somewhat plausible, since while I wouldn't take seriously any of the Dark History stuff in fluff, Gym does say that Terrans won't be able to return it to it's "true state", opening the possibility that there are other weapons or systems besides the Turn-A to be horrified by.

> Saying that it's just superficial undermines the animation of the show

And saying it isn't undermines the narrative of the show. Not that I believe saying it is undermines the animation at all, given you've yet to show that the animation is intended to be anything other than visually dynamic.

File: The Queen's Judgement.webm (2MB, 960x720px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 960x720px

>>15576165

> Every time they talk about it destroying civilization it's in reference to the archives.

No, it isn't. Even before the the Turn-A's code is put in to the archives to show just what it did in the Dark History the Adeskan's showed fear of the Turn-A wiping out civilization again. Once Midgard saw the full Dark History he was terrified of the Turn-A and believed awakening it would lead to a terrible circumstance.

File: Foolish Consequences.webm (2MB, 1440x1080px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1440x1080px

>>15576169

And after witnessing it Dianna notes several times that even if Guin and Gym don't intend to wipe out civilization again their actions could lead to it happening regardless while other characters express a desire to stop it because they share her belief it could happen, even if not by design.

File: Repeating the Dark History.webm (2MB, 1440x1080px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1440x1080px

>>15576174

File: The Horror of Moonlight.webm (2MB, 960x720px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 960x720px

>>15576180

Phil even shows physical discomfort or sickness at the thoughts of the Moonlight Butterfly being used once he knows the Dark History.

File: The Sky is Falling.webm (1MB, 1440x1080px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1440x1080px

>>15576184

And Lily believes it's possible the two Turns fighting will mean the end of them all, while Guin never contradicts her and just hopes Loran will prevent it by winning.

File: Corin's Fears.webm (3MB, 960x720px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 960x720px

>>15576190

And Corin dies trying to prevent the Dark History from being repeated.

File: Gym's Goal.webm (3MB, 1440x1080px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 1440x1080px

>>15576192

> mostly because they know that that isn't Gym/Guin's goal

It's not Guin's goal, but Gym literally flat out states that wiping out Earth's civilization is a goal of his.

> Regardless, in their minds they can only assume that the ∀ is still fully capable

And narratively not having it be fully capable lowers the stakes pointlessly. If the cast are fighting to prevent it being used but it turns out that it can't actually do what they fear there's no point in either their fear, and there's no need or point in dismissing the stakes like that. Narratively it makes way more sense and gives maximum tension by having it be possible and the cast fighting to prevent that possibility, along with fighting to prevent Gym or Guin taking control, and to ensure the Moonrace and Terrans can co-exist.

File: Maybe Gym just wants a good fight.webm (1MB, 1440x1080px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1440x1080px

>>15576196

Gym expresses the belief the Turn's are capable of wiping out civilization as well by the way.

File: Dark Clouds of History.webm (1MB, 1440x1080px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1440x1080px

>>15576201

> In Merrybell's storm, it was possible to make out fields and mountains in the distance even at ground level and only small dust devils instead larger funnel clouds

When you see it from ground level, yes. When you see it from a height you can't see any fields and the only mountains visible are the tops that stick out of the clouds. A geographical feature that isn't there in the old footage since it takes place at a sea port. Viewing it at that height the only difference is a lack of visible funnels, and that's as much because of the plane of vision it's viewed at as anything more than likely, since there demonstrably are smaller funnels within the clouds that aren't visible.

----

I think that's all the webms. And yes, I spent way longer than is reasonable making them, but I love Turn-A so I was happy to glance through episodes looking for stuff and making webms.

File: Corin's not a SUMO.webm (944KB, 1440x1080px) Image search: [Google]

944KB, 1440x1080px

>>15576204

I made a few other webms of stuff that I noticed while flicking through episodes by the by, starting with noticing that Harry offers Corin a SUMO when he joins them in the last few episodes but Corin obviously turns it down and instead has engineers spend all night customizing a Kapool for him. Which is cool.

File: Correct Century Minovsky Interference.webm (2MB, 1440x1080px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1440x1080px

>>15576229

Loran also notes the existence of what is almost certainly Minovsky interference in the last few episodes. Something I thought was completely absent from CC/Turn-A.

>>15576154
Having something be a mystery in a story is not the same as making presumptions without supporting evidence. If a Chekov's Gun isn't shown to be part of the story, then literary principles say that it doesn't exist in the story at all. Anything extra is just adulteration of the narrative. Without Sunrise retconning the history of the ∀, it's illogical to assume that it was ever nuclear capable.

>>15576163
Agrippa mentioned the damage from the dark history. We are SHOWN the damage it can do in present time.

>>15576165
>Why do you keep saying this when what he said is demonstrably an ambiguous statement that may not be referring to the amount of damage possible in one area?
Because Corin is one of the few people familiar with the Dark History and because he says because he recognizes the damage as the MB.

>Gym does say that Terrans won't be able to return it to it's "true state"
Yes. That's the point of the argument.

>And saying it isn't undermines the narrative of the show.
No, it doesn't. Even in a weakened state, the MB still proves to be a formidable threat when it destroyed the town.

>you've yet to show that the animation is intended to be anything other than visually dynamic.
Animation is a medium that is heavily dependent on visual cues to tell a story. If anything can be arbitrarily labeled as superficial like you're doing, then we can't trust the visuals at all and the overall story suffers for it.

>>15576169
>>15576174
>>15576184
>>15576190
In all cases, a reference to what ∀ did in the past and any future calamities are non-specific to the Turns. Ultimately what everybody fears is a large conflict that could devastate the Earthsphere again like it did in the past.

>>15576196
>Gym literally flat out states that wiping out Earth's civilization is a goal of his.
He means that he wants to conquer Earth. He states that Earthrace rejected the Moonrace migration. He concludes that it's best to subjugate them with using the X and remake Earth to his liking. What he believes that in the long peace since the Dark History, humanity has grown stagnant and only conflict can make them stronger.

>And narratively not having it be fully capable lowers the stakes pointlessly.
No, it doesn't. Even in a weakened state, the MB still proves to be a formidable threat when it destroyed the town. Furthermore, Guin said that he intends to develop and mass produce the ∀ making a full-powered MB like the one from the archives very possible.

File: mfw.webm (400KB, 1440x1080px) Image search: [Google]

400KB, 1440x1080px

>>15576532

> it's illogical to assume that it was ever nuclear capable

How many times must I clarify that I never assumed it wasn't, only dismissed the assumption that it wasn't? Specifically the assumption that it wasn't because one size of nuclear bomb didn't fit. I'm not assuming it was nuclear capable, I'm assuming that the multi-silo can fit multiple weapons, none of which we have ever seen. I suggested one of them could be a nuke when you said it couldn't use nukes because we have no evidence for or against, but I don't hold that it definitely did or definitely didn't.

> We are SHOWN the damage it can do in present time

And the damage we are shown it can do is identical in locational severity to the damage we see the Turn-A do in the past, just not in breadth.

> Because Corin is one of the few people familiar with the Dark History

He was also one of the people specifically worried about the Dark History being repeated. He also never said the Turn-A did less severe damage in the one area like you repeatedly imply, only that it could do "further horrors".

> That's the point of the argument

You do realize he had just had Moonrace engineers tune it up and that it's piloted by a Moonrace person?

> Even in a weakened state, the MB still proves to be a formidable threat when it destroyed a town

Only being able to threat a part of the Earth instead of all civilization on Earth when multiple people express a fear that all civilization will be wiped is undermining the narrative.

> If anything can be arbitrarily labled as superficial

Labeling something that is never shown, suggested or implied to have deeper meaning as superficial is not arbitrary. If it has deeper meaning then prove it, at the moment though all you're doing is pointing to some vague lines with no correlation and trying to say they prove your point.

>>15577280

> a reference to what ∀ did in the past and any future calamities are non-specific

Multiple characters literally restate they want to avoid both the Dark History and the Turns using the Moonlight Butterfly. There's nothing non-specific about it.

> Ultimately what everybody fears is a large conflict

That's what everybody feared up until episode 45 when Gym and Guin team up, destroy all the ships on the Moon and leave for Earth. At that point the fear for the protagonists becomes avoiding the Dark History, not a large conflict; and to avoid it they are willing to and do engage in a large conflict, with multiple parties that pushed for peaceful resolution prior to that point saying that war is now necessary (Dianna, Keith, Loran etc).

>>15576534

> character literally flat out says "I shall use the Turn X to wipe out everything"
> he just means he wants to subjugate everything
> wipe out now means subjugate

> Even in a weakened state, the MB still proves to be a formidable threat

Anon, if characters are fighting specifically to prevent one thing and state it multiple times why would you present different stakes? What would be the purpose in presenting different stakes? What would the narrative achieve by doing so despite the characters fears? And in what way does doing so better serve the story than having their fears be possible?

>>15577280
>I suggested one of them could be a nuke when you said it couldn't use nukes because we have no evidence for or against, but I don't hold that it definitely did or definitely didn't.
No, what I'm saying is that there is nothing to question here. We don't need the confirmation that it didn't because if it did, Sunrise would have said so like they've suggested for all of their other nuclear capable mobile weapons.

>And the damage we are shown it can do is identical in locational severity to the damage we see the Turn-A do in the past
No, it's not. In Merrybell's storm, we still see structures that have not been turned to sand.

>You do realize he had just had Moonrace engineers tune it up
Yes, it needs to be "tuned up" is the point of the argument.

>Only being able to threat a part of the Earth instead of all civilization on Earth when multiple people express a fear that all civilization will be wiped is undermining the narrative.
No, it's not. The Turns are still a formidable threat even when they can't do a full-powered MB. People express fear because there still exists the potential that they can eventually be made to do a full MB.

>Labeling something that is never shown, suggested or implied to have deeper meaning as superficial is not arbitrary.
You're saying that something is superficial despite evidence to the contrary is by definition an arbitrary argument.

>If it has deeper meaning then prove it
I've already mentioned them several times. We know for a fact that the MB from the archives is stronger because it's from the time when it destroyed civilization. The nanomachine storm was also more intense and visually different than Merrybell's. When the MB is used is present time, the "wings" look very similar to when the ∀ is charging up right before the full attack.

>>15577289
>Multiple characters literally restate they want to avoid both the Dark History and the Turns using the Moonlight Butterfly. There's nothing non-specific about it.
Look at your webms again. Nobody ever explicitly states that those two Turns will be using the MB to destroy civilization. The closest one is when Loran is talking to Sid and even then it's obvious that he's repeating some second-hand speculation.

>Anon, if characters are fighting specifically to prevent one thing and state it multiple times why would you present different stakes?
I don't know where you are getting that notion. Gym's ultimate goal is cause "his" era of conflict because he believes mankind has grown weak without war. To do that, he wants to destroy those that talk of peace. He's more than capable of doing this despite neither Turns being able to do a full MB as demonstrated by shrugging off pretty much everything that was thrown against him that wasn't the ∀. Everybody that was fighting against him knew that should Gym win, it would mean another era conflict and with his possession of the Turns, another full MB would be much more probable and civilization would end once again.

What the fuck is Crystal Unicorn and how come the only search results are G Gen gameplay?

File: IMG_0387.jpg (247KB, 1068x1342px) Image search: [Google]

247KB, 1068x1342px

>>15568840
Are we just going to ignore that gundam erection? I'm cool with that just want to be on the same page.

>>15577822

What's Gundam Erection even referring to? The For The Barrel type design on the top left with a cockpit?

File: IMG_08261[1].jpg (158KB, 840x560px) Image search: [Google]

158KB, 840x560px

From one of the Build Fighter related materials.

File: 6mqJz.gif (903KB, 500x286px) Image search: [Google]

903KB, 500x286px

>>15579077
>What's Gundam Erection even referring to?

gotcha

>>15579099
The design still looks crap but it's better than mustachio gundam

>>15579999
FUCK YOU

>>15577748
The same stupid cunts who go on about 'felcher gundam' call the Unicorn Gundam by that name.

>>15577478

> We don't need the confirmation

I never said we did. As is though, the animation leaves open the question of what weapons it did have, so we can neither confirm or deny it had nuclear weapons. Or any other kind of weapons. It is an open question, not a confirmed denial.

> In Merrybell's storm, we still see structures that have not been turned to sand.

And in the archival footage we never get a ground level view of any kind after the Moonlight Butterfly has hit an area, so we have no idea if the Moonlight Butterfly was quicker to eat stuff in the past or not.

> it needs to be "tuned up" is the point

It already has been is the point.

> People express fear because there exists the potential they can eventually be made to do a full MB

There is no proof it's only an eventual fear.

> You're saying something is superficail despite evidence to the contrary

What evidence? Corin's ambiguous line? The colors of a color shifting technology shifting?

> We know for a fact that the MB from the archives is stronger because it's from the time when it destroyed civilization

You have a strange definition of fact, considering no-one anywhere ever says the Turn-A isn't that strong in the show. No, not even Corin. Who implies the opposite given he fears the two Turns will do the same again if he doesn't stop them. It not destroying civilization again when Merrybell uses it isn't proof it can't.

>>15579099
I don't hate it.

>>15571491

Shut the fuck up

File: Dianna's Gamble.webm (1MB, 1440x1080px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1440x1080px

>>15580488

> Nobody ever explicitly states that those two Turns will be using the MB to destroy civilization

Loran explicitly shouts about how he doesn't want the Turns to call out the Moonlight Butterfly when they're locked together, Corin shouts about how they'll repeat the Dark History if he doesn't stop them, Gym specifically says he wants the Turn-X to wipe out everything on Earth. You'd have to pretty obtuse to think those or any other the other highlighted instances are the characters musing that some other Turn descendant will do it, or even that it's only a distant possibility and that it can't happen at the moment.

> Gym's ultimate goal is cause "his" era of conflict

Gym literally says he wants to wipe out everything and start a new era. He does want a new era of conflict, but he doesn't just intend to make the current era an era of conflict but to reset civilization and make a new one. He literally says as much and his words aren't even remotely ambiguous. He even argues why, saying that people on Earth called for the Turn-A to awaken, and that the current era is a mistake. When Loran says that wiping out everything on Earth isn't necessary he also doesn't go "of course it isn't, that's not my plan", instead he says "that's not true". You have to essentially ignore half his words to think he wants otherwise.

>>15580488
>so we have no idea if the Moonlight Butterfly was quicker to eat stuff in the past or not.
The sandstorm from archives is thicker and blacker than Merrybell's. As the ∀ flies by there is zero visibility in the storm. Merrybell's storm has far more visibility at ground level.

> It not destroying civilization again when Merrybell uses it isn't proof it can't.
Maybe it can despite a weaker MB. Regardless, we know for a fact that the MB from archives can destroy civilization because we know for a fact that it did and Merrybell's did not.

>>15580515
>>15580515
>Loran explicitly shouts about how he doesn't want the Turns to call out the Moonlight Butterfly when they're locked together, Corin shouts about how they'll repeat the Dark History if he doesn't stop them, Gym specifically says he wants the Turn-X to wipe out everything on Earth.
And yet none of them explicitly say that the Turns will activate an MB that will destroy civilization.

>You'd have to pretty obtuse to think those or any other the other highlighted instances are the characters musing that some other Turn descendant will do it, or even that it's only a distant possibility and that it can't happen at the moment.
The irony here is that you are also dismissing Corin's comment about Merrybell's storm as ambiguous and non-specific while at the same time trying to use equally ambiguous quotes to try and support your argument. The pot is calling the kettle black here.

> When Loran says that wiping out everything on Earth isn't necessary he also doesn't go "of course it isn't, that's not my plan", instead he says "that's not true". You have to essentially ignore half his words to think he wants otherwise.
He says it's not true because it isn't. Destroying civilization is in direct opposition of his plan in creating an era of conflict. He truly believes that conflict brings gives humanity a reason to advance as evidenced by the technologies that came from the Dark History. Doing another full MB would mean destroying all the technologies again including the ones from the mountain cycles. He'd effectively be restarting Correct Century all over again causing another "mistake" era which is definitely NOT what he wants.

>>15579099
I like both. The redesign still keeps the traits I love about the suit.

>>15581017

> As the ∀ flies by there is zero visibility in the storm. Merrybell's storm has far more visibility at ground level.

We never see the aftermath of the Moonlight Butterfly at ground level in the archives, so saying there's visibility in the current day usage is meaningless.

> we know for a fact that the MB from archives can destroy civilization because we know for a fact that it did and Merrybell's did not.

Which doesn't actually prove that the current one is weaker.

>>15581022

> none of them explicitly say that the Turns will activate a MB that will destroy civilization

> Loran: Don't call out the Moonlight Butterfly!
> Corin: If I can't break those two out of that deadlock, the events of the Dark History will be repeated!

> Gym: Maybe if we allow these Turn units to drain all our energy while following our basic combat instincts, perhaps Earth's civilization won't end up being destroyed after all

Those are explicitly characters saying that those two Turns will actiave a Moonlight Butterfly they believe will wipe out civilization.

> you are also dismissing Corin's comment about Merrybell's storm as ambiguous and non-specific while at the same time trying to use equally ambiguous quotes to try and support your argument

There's nothing ambiguous about several of the quotes. Please, tell me, what other meaning could the above quotes have that make them ambiguous?

>>15581522

> He says it's not true because it isn't.

Wait, are you not a native English speaker or something? Because that would actually explain several of your arguments. Their exchange is a double negative. In English that changes the morality of the argument. Two double negatives is a positive, two double positives is a negative. The exchange might as well be

> Loran: There's need for us to wipe out the Earth as it currently is!
> Gym: That's true.

The only way it would mean he doesn't think the Earth needs to be wiped out is if it had gone something like

> Loran: There's no need for us to wipe out the Earth as it currently is!
> Gym: That's true.

Even if you didn't understand that though, Gym later saying "Therefor, I shall use the Turn X to wipe out everything and bring about the start of my own new era!", which makes his meaning clear. Gym views the current era, built by men like Guin and the Moonrace in general as a mistake, leading to culturally stagnation; taking it over wouldn't solve the flaws he sees, where he thinks humans who act from their desire to fight are the strong and correct. Hence why he wants to wipe it out and start over, bringing about a culture built by people and a society he approves of. One that won't suppress their instinct to fight and thus creating a better, more vibrant culture and society.

Note also that using the Moonlight Butterfly won't destroy all technologies regardless, because Agrippa states that the Turn-A selectively spared some technology, using nanoskin to bury it before it buried itself. Gym could save any suits or technologies he wanted, and even if he couldn't the Moon is going to survive regardless so he can just wipe out all tech on Earth (most of it isn't advanced anyways), then take the tech he wants from the Moon.

>>15568534
Meh. Just meh.

>>15581522
>We never see the aftermath of the Moonlight Butterfly at ground level in the archives
There's no aftermath to see. We know that the nanomachines turn structures into sand and there was a LOT more sand in archive footage given how dense the actual sandstorm was.

>saying there's visibility in the current day usage is meaningless.
Again, you're just arbitrarily choosing to ignore what is presented to us by the show by undermining the animation.

>Those are explicitly characters saying that those two Turns will actiave a Moonlight Butterfly they believe will wipe out civilization.
No they're not. Gym's speaking nonsense, but he is referring to having an indomitable fighting spirit by following their "basic combat instincts" is what will keep the Turns from destroying civilization which is inline with his belief that humanity can only truly become strongest in conclict. Corin's line is about stopping Gym from creating his new era of conflict and thus avoid repeating the events of the Dark History.

>what other meaning could the above quotes have that make them ambiguous?
>>15576180
Here Loran is parroting second-hand rumours which even he doesn't entirely believe. Nothing definitive.
>>15576184
Here they are speaking of MB's lights and what it was able to do which isn't entirely wrong since it looks similar to what archive footage showed when it was charging up for the full attack.
>>15576190
Guin's ambitions have been obvious for some time by this point. His designs rely on having current institutions of Ameria to still be intact. Without them, he would have no official status or authority in power.
>>15576196
Gym wishes to overthrow the current status quo and start his era of conflict.
>>15576201
Already discussed above.

>>15581523
>Their exchange is a double negative.
You're grasping at straws here given the fact that the show wasn't written in English so proper English speech patterns and sentence structure doesn't necessarily apply in direct translations. Gym that Loran's claim of destroying civilization is not true because what he wants to unmake the current world order into one of conflict because he believes that that is how humanity will cease being stagnant.

>Gym could save any suits or technologies he wanted, and even if he couldn't the Moon is going to survive regardless so he can just wipe out all tech on Earth (most of it isn't advanced anyways), then take the tech he wants from the Moon.
This part of the plan is redundant since they're already at that point and don't need to execute a full MB if he's just going to import technologies from the Moonrace.

Regardless, even if destroying civilization like in the Dark History was always part of the plan, he would've done so as soon he got to Earth. If the Turns were just as powerful as they were in the past, Gym wouldn't have waited several episodes to enact his plan with both of the Turns in his possession.

>>15570108
Who says they couldn't have built a new space elevator after the events of Ɐ Gundam?

>>15583089

I'd be more curious about the colonies, since the Moon in Turn-A is colonised with at least 3,000 years and has to put most of its population in cryogenic stasis to keep them alive while they wait for the Earth to become habitable while G-Reco has a 2,000 year old colony on an asteroid and more at Venus. It just seems weird to have the Moon worrying so much about disease, population etc. when they could apparently just have contacted other space colonies to at least alleviate the problem.

>>15583049

> There's no aftermath to see. We know that the nanomachines turn structures into sand

I thought we had to see something to know it? Now we don't need proof when it suits you. That's handy. And no, we don't know that the structures turn immediately to sand in the archival footage because there's a bigger or thicker cloud since the cloud we see has no point of reference for it's size and looks just as thick as the one covering the mountains in the present.

> you're just arbitrarily choosing to ignore what is presented to us

No, I'm pointing out the fact we never see a ground level view of the aftermath of the Moonlight Butterfly so we have no idea how fast it acts or how obscuring it is at that level. There's nothing arbitrary about it.

> Gym's speaking nonsense

So anything that runs counter to the narrative you wish to see is now nonsense?

> Corin's line is about stopping Gym from creating his new era of conflict

No, Corin was fighting to stop something like that with the last two episodes. He has an immediate reaction to the imminent release of the Moonlight Butterfly and his line is about how what's happening in front of him right then is so immediate it has to be stopped right there or else there'll be something even worse happen.

> Gym wishes to overthrow the current status quo

Not what he actually says, and you are literally ignoring his words and reinterpreting them to suit a predefined meaning to arrive at a conclusion that suits you. Something you did with Corin's line for that matter.

>>15583050

> the show wasn't written in English

No, it was just translated several times by different groups of people in to English, all of whom arrived at the same general lines for the character. Including the professional translators hired by Sunrise. Unless you want to make an argument including the original Japanese saying it's only a translation is a toothless argument, and means you could literally ignore every line in the show as being unreliable because it's not the original language so you can just arrive at your own conclusion on what every character wants and what the plot is.

> direct translation

No Gundam show has a direct translation. Direct translation is what causes crabstick subs, not what Turn-A has. Someone obviously vetted the Turn-A translation to ensure proper sentence structure in English as well as meaning. That the result doesn't suit you doesn't mean otherwise.

> even if destroying civilization like in the Dark History was always part of the plan

It wasn't. When we first see the character he just wants to continue serving the current order as he always has, then when Dianna orders him to hand over the Turn-X he starts chafing and Merrybell thinks he might assassinate Dianna and Kihel before Guin offers him a different solution and the two leave for Earth, at which point he starts trying to flex his leadership but Guin repeatedly tries to constrain with social and political arguments that he gets more tired of, eventually bucking them entirely in the finale. He doesn't want to wipe everything out from the get go, it's a goal that evolves from his experiences in the dozen episodes he's in.

>>15585708
>I thought we had to see something to know it? Now we don't need proof when it suits you.
Wrong. It's stated that the nanomachines turned everything to sand. There's no aftermath to see because the sandstorm itself is the aftermath of those nanomachines.

>looks just as thick as the one covering the mountains in the present.
Wrong. There's a huge disparity in the visibility levels between the two storms. Why are you continuing to ignore this?

>So anything that runs counter to the narrative you wish to see is now nonsense?
You're presuming things now by ignoring key character traits. Gym's line isn't counter to his character at all. He believes that human will hardened by battle is enough to overcome the MB. It's preposterous as a plan, but it's still in agreement with his established motivations of strength through combat and in agreement with his role as the main villain.

>He has an immediate reaction
No, it wasn't. It was a premeditated suicide run which is why he left Miashei and Sochie behind and took their Kapools.

> you are literally ignoring his words and reinterpreting them to suit a predefined meaning to arrive at a conclusion that suits you.
That's ironic since that's what you've been doing this whole thread.

>>15585709
>Someone obviously vetted the Turn-A translation to ensure proper sentence structure
And yet that still doesn't matter when a character does not use it. The show is loaded with lines of sentence fragments, run-on sentences, and improper/informal exclamations reflecting real life experience in that nobody speaks in correct grammar all the time regardless of the language. To return this to Gym, there are a few moments where he speaks very casually.

>he starts trying to flex his leadership but Guin repeatedly tries to constrain with social and political arguments that he gets more tired of, eventually bucking them entirely in the finale.
Gym already came to that conclusion a couple of episodes before the finale.

File: Harry explains Correct Century barrier tech.webm (2MB, 1440x1080px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1440x1080px

>>15586212

> It's stated that the nanomachines turned everything to sand.

Yes, but it's never stated or shown how quickly. Which means it's entirely possible it did so at the same speed we see in the current day.

> There's a huge disparity in the visibility levels between the two storms.

Only if you view the archival one from above and the present one from ground level. Which I'm ignoring because it's an unequal and irrelevant comparison. When comparing both from above there's no difference in visibility.

> You're presuming things

I'm questioning your own argument. You were the one said his statement was nonsense, not me.

> He believes that human will hardened by battle is enough to overcome the MB

No, he doesn't. He is suggesting that draining that pilots will/energy will stop the units, which is actually possible, since earlier Harry explains to Kihel that some CC units/tech is powered by the pilots willpower. Gym is also pretty obviously being sarcastic given his tone of voice when saying it.

>>15587508

> It was a premeditated suicide run which is why he left Miashei and Sochie behind

He leaves them behind because he wants their units to help boost the power on his own unit, as well as because he doesn't want relatively young and inexperienced people endangered. Their units act as thrusters for his, while he calls them greenhorns, criticizes their view and then tells Bruno and Jacop to look after them, something that would require them too to stay behind. He has his Gundam Wing freakout when he sees the two units fighting, then notes how if he doesn't get them out of a specific deadlock, one that is currently unleashing an uncontrolled Moonlight Butterfly, it'll cause the Dark History all over again. His words "that deadlock" can only be referring to what's happening in front of him, not a non-specific Turn-A/Turn-X scenario that might happen. Something that prompts him to attack while shouting about getting them out of their deadlock.

> that's what you've been doing this whole thread

Tell me so anon, what quotes or lines have I been reinterpreting?

> people don't speak in correct grammar
> therefor it doesn't matter that the show renders their speech intelligible when they do

Gym speaking casually or in sentence fragments is not the same as him speaking nonsense or the translation being incorrect.

> Gym already came to that conclusion a couple of episodes before the finale.

No, he doesn't, because he listens to Guin until the second to last episode, when his fight against Loran begins.

I'm going to pop in and said that those Hax powers were, in a way, canon.

The problem is that Besides the Animation, Sunrise left the canonity up to the fans: http://otakurevolution.com/content/gundam-what-sunrise-thinks-is-official

File: [HorribleSubs] Gundam Build Fighters - 22 [720p].mkv_snapshot_04.00_[2014.03.11_00.54.09].jpg (80KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

80KB, 1280x720px

>>15568534
Eh I think ELS Qan[T] and Awakened Unicorn could give it a run for its money. The latter is pretty much magic anyhow.

I think Okawara's design would be better without the mouth vents, but overall its decent.
Syd Mead's version is definitely better.

>How does /m/ feel about the Turn A gundam?
Interesting in its design.
>How do you feel about it being the strongest gundam?
It depends on who said it is.

As >>15587952 stated, some of its stats and abilities landed in the grey area of canon. As long as it doesn't contradict with the show itself, it can be interpreted as canon regardless of Sunrise involvement: but Sunrise must either state it themselves or animate it in order for it to be in the white, like Unicorn Gundam.

>>15584296
The whole thing about the Regild Century is thatb it's a Second Golden Age of Humanity. With the new tech discovered and the unity with the Moonrace, people have started rebuilding. The whole tech taboo was put into place to prevent the Dark History from happening again. As for Venus Globe, it's not inconceivable that contact was lost wiht them and only reestablished after the Moonrace awoke from cryo.

>>15568583
Besides maybe Devil and ELS Quanta, nothing else even comes close. You are acting like Gundams approach it's level regularly.

>>15571553
Even in universe, isn't it just a half ass retcon to incorporate Stargazer technology into the lead Gundam SEED Destiny mecha?
Which really doesn't make sense, as the solar sail has no real practical application over short term travel and constant navigational changes that a combat MS would need.
It really doesn't make sense, even by SEED's own standards.

It's garbage wankery.

>>15569979
>it can make toast
why can't this be a feature on more mecha

File: Are you Gundam.jpg (108KB, 600x338px) Image search: [Google]

108KB, 600x338px

If we're going to bring up supplementary material and guessing based upon what we see, the ELS Qan[T] would easily destroy the Turn A.

MLB is ineffective because GN Particles work on a sub-atomic level, negating the effectiveness of MLB as nanomachines cannot penetrate something that works on a smaller level than itself.
Beams of any kind don't mean jack shit when you can quantize.
Regeneration doesn't mean jack shit when you can simply touch them and begin assimilating their suit. Quantum brainwave communication would allow Setsuna to tell the ELS to go straight for the pilot.
Plus the fact it covered itself in flowers at the end of Trailblazer shows that it has the ability to shapeshift, meaning it could even pretend to be a friendly if Setsuna wanted to.

File: 00公式サイトリニューアルめでたい∩(´；ヮ；｀)∩ 02 by さかさづり.png (422KB, 750x1000px) Image search: [Google]

422KB, 750x1000px

>>15588301
So I guess the real question here is why hasn't the ELS Qan[T] shown up as a hidden boss/unit in any of the Gundam strategy games.

>>15588301
Qan[T] couldn't touch Devil Gundam.

>>15588377
but touching it is exactly how it would defeat it
or simply teleporting inside, and destroying its core.

>>15588400
Unless there's some big power of love shebang, no dice.

>>15588402
>Setsuna
>Not full of love for everyone on the planet
Nigga did you even watch Trailblazer? Setsuna's heart is big as fuck.

>>15588406
No, that's UNDERSTANDING. It has to be personal.

>>15588408
I dunno man.
I mean have you heard 00's 2nd ed?

>>15587508
>it's entirely possible it did so at the same speed we see in the current day.
And it could still be entirely possible that it there were simply less nanomachines to work with which is why the storms looks so different.

>Only if you view the archival one from above and the present one from ground level.
No. There was a ground level view of the flyby BEFORE the cut to the above view and everything was obscured. A big difference in visibility levels from Merrybell's storm and her flyby.

>You were the one said his statement was nonsense, not me.
Because his role as the villain practically requires him and his plan to be fallible and make it obvious that he's the bad guy of the story.

>Gym is also pretty obviously being sarcastic given his tone of voice when saying it.
Nothing suggests this. Even as a character he doesn't have a sarcasm streak. Furthermore, Gym's dialogue with Merrybell implies that Gym was looking to conquer the MB itself which again is a nonsensical plan.

>>15587511
>He has his Gundam Wing freakout when he sees the two units fighting
You're getting your episodes confused. He has his PTSD moment when the X unleashes an MB when it was fighting the SUMOs. Corin doesn't go on his suicide run until the next episode.

>His words "that deadlock" can only be referring to what's happening in front of him
Maybe in the Bluray subs, but that's not what he's saying in Japanese. In the spoken language, Corin is referring to the X specifically in saying that it can't be allowed to bring about the events of Dark History -- not the "deadlock" it has with the ∀. Corin only jumps onto the scene when Gym called for Merrybell's help in attacking the ∀ when X refuses to move. After he stuffs Merrybell and attacks the X, he dies exclaiming that the ∀ should be the one to build the future implying that he believes Loran's cause to be the righteous one. In other words, he doesn't want Gym to win and ushering in his era of conflict. Again, he mentions nothing about the MB at this point at all only the Dark History in the general sense.

>what quotes or lines have I been reinterpreting?
I already went over them here: >>15583049. Whereas you've said Corin's line about Merrbell's MB is ambiguous because it's not 100% definite in what he means, you ignore that dialogue that you've brought forward to support your side is just as indistinct in the context of the story.

>he listens to Guin until the second to last episode
He doesn't even have any dialogue with Guin in the penultimate episode. The last time we even see those two have any sort of exchange is in the episode before that when they were watching Merrybell's MB. Even at that point it's obvious that Gym no longer cares what Guin thinks.

>>15588406
Actual romantic love is what beat the Devil Gundam, not good will and understanding kind of love.

>>15588313
Animators would have to come up with ways for it to shape shift and manifest new weapons in order to even replicate the abilities the original Qan[T] had. That's a lot more work than what they have to do with the Black History Turn A.

There's also the fact that it's the product of a post war scenario, and symbolizes peace. Where as the Black History Turn A is seen as a horrible entity of destruction. It's pretty obvious as to which makes a more thematic opposing entity.

>>15589821
>>15589821
>There's also the fact that it's the product of a post war scenario, and symbolizes peace. Where as the Black History Turn A is seen as a horrible entity of destruction. It's pretty obvious as to which makes a more thematic opposing entity.

You know you're absolutely right. Now I can't help but feel it would be wrong to want the Qan[T] to fight.

>>15589821
As long as we're including novels the ELS Qan[T] was supposedly use in the human vs. innovator war against Gadelazas. Don't think they mentioned any abilities, but it's hard to beat teleporting beams into cockpits.

>>15591815
Setsuna wasn't even present during the Innovator conflict. He was still in space.

>>15569979
It also has 2 cup holders. TWO!

>>15573707
It might just be the art style, but Borjanons have larger eyes and look more like the fat robot damashii zakus

File: Camera Obscura.webm (1MB, 1440x1080px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1440x1080px

>>15589474

> There was a ground level view of the flyby before the cut to the above view and everything was obscured

There's about a second or so where the camera is showing a side on view which is mostly of the Turn-A and the Moonlight Butterfly wings, a second or so in which the camera is directly hit by the oncoming dust cloud. There's a similar thing happens in the present day footage, and it obscures the camera entirely too.

> his role as the villain practically requires him and his plan to be fallible and make it obvious that he's the bad guy of the story

Which requires he speak nonsense how exactly? His plan is already fallible because it depends on the Turn-X, which can be defeated by the Turn-A. Hence the urgency to get it back in the last few episodes. And his speech and actions already make him the obvious bad guy even without relegating some of it to nonsense because it doesn't line up with your view of his character.

> Nothing suggests this.

You're right, I used the wrong word. Playful might be a better word than sarcastic. He basically fights to make himself feel good, and pursues things in a way that satisfies himself at any given moment. So he pilots most of the time by kicking his feet up and controlling the Turn-X via the psycoframe, he mocks Joseph for calling out a woman's name as a sign he's going to die and he tells Loran maybe he can stop the units making a Moonlight Butterfly if he fights hard enough to drain their energy.

> Gym's dialogue with Merrybell implies that Gym was looking to conquer the MB itself

Which dialogue out of interest?

>>15589478

> You're getting your episodes confused

So I was.

> Maybe in the Bluray subs

Definitely in the Bluray subs, and I'll take their word over yours. Especially when you're only just now claiming understanding of Japanese despite us arguing over meaning with at least a few posts and thinking that Turn-A is an example of a direct translation, apparently because Gym's English sentences don't make sense to you without assuming they're being rendered nonsensically.

> he mentions nothing about the MB at this point at all only the Dark History in the general sense

And mentioning the Dark History when referring specifically to the two units deadlocked in front of him with an uncontrolled Moonlight Butterfly spreading from them has only one real implication.

> I already went over them here >>15583049

> Loran is parroting second-hand rumors which even he doesn't entirely believe. Nothing definite.

It definitively shows he's concerned about the Moonlight Butterfly being used in that way regardless of his control.

> Here they are speaking of MB's lights and what it was able to do

They are speaking of it in light of what they know and show genuine horror at the thought it's being used, including physical pain. They have no reason to show such fear unless they think it capable of doing so again.

> His designs rely on having current institutions of Ameria to still be intact

In the finale he makes it obvious he'll try and establish power somewhere else and try again. Even in that scene he says that you have your whole life to do so, and in the past he did exactly that by using Lily to hijack Borjarnos power and take back control of Ameria in the negotiations with the Moonrace when his own state of Inglessia is destroyed. Having the institutions of Ameria in place is helpful, but he can use others if need be and he'd only fear that he might not be able to try if he dies or they're all wiped out.

File: Gym is tired of waiting.webm (2MB, 1440x1080px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1440x1080px

>>15594104

> Gym wishes to overthrow the current status quo

At least twice he says he wants to wipe everything out, with a third time implying much the same.

> He doesn't even have any dialogue with Guin in the penultimate episode

He has at least one scene directly talking to Guin, where he chastises him for losing the Turn-A, saying the gift of some land won't make up for it and then shows anger at "Terrans" at the end, but he has another scene in the finale where he explicitly disregards Guin and his wishes and decides to just destroy the Turn-A.

>>15576131
But Japs love those movies.

>>15594096
>There's a similar thing happens in the present day footage, and it obscures the camera entirely too.
No, there isn't. Not a single frame of animation shows us that it does.

>Which requires he speak nonsense how exactly?
Be making a preposterous and potentially catastrophic presumption. In his case, he believes that a strong fighting spirit can control the MB which is of course nonsensical and why I pointed it out. It's a tired trope and just because Gym has fills the archetype of an anime villain doesn't exclude him from checking more he more boxes within a villain's role in the narrative like you are suggesting.

>Which dialogue out of interest?
In the final episode when Gym and Loran start their fight. Merrybell shows up and Gym tells her to back off. Merrybell says something along the lines having seen the results of the MB and it being something you have throw everything you have at it.

>>15594104
>I'll take their word over yours
Then that's just a mistake that you'll have to learn to live with. Corin is not aiming to stop the deadlock, but targeting the X specifically (which he does) referring to the "golden/shining limb combiner" needing to be stopped because it will repeat the Dark History. He wants to help Loran/∀ win as he clearly alluded to when he died.

>And mentioning the Dark History when referring specifically to the two units deadlocked in front of him with an uncontrolled Moonlight Butterfly spreading from them has only one real implication.
No, it doesn't. The Dark History is more than an MB. It's an era of never-ending war. The MB from the archives happened to be part of it and in the long run it's what brought the Dark History to an end.

>It definitively shows he's concerned about the Moonlight Butterfly being used in that way regardless of his control.
Agreed. Most of the cast has that concern, but none of them have actual proof that it can do it to the same scale as it did in the archives.

>They have no reason to show such fear
They should be concerned regardless of it being capable of a full MB or not because they know that the MB just wiped out an entire town in the current era. Ignoring that it can destroy whole towns is not a solution.

>In the finale he makes it obvious he'll try and establish power somewhere else and try again.
I'm not arguing against that as that is the point I'm making. According to your interpretation of Gym's plan for destroying everything, there wouldn't even be a "somewhere else" to go to.

>>15594107
>he says he wants to wipe everything out
Again, he's referring to the current institutions and policies that he feels has kept the human race docile and stagnant for millennia at that point. Destroying everything in the literal sense would be in direct opposition of his goals as he'd be essentially restarting the Correct Century all over again just like it happened before.

>he says he wants to wipe everything out
Ah, yes. I am wrong and I forgot about that scene. However, the way that scene plays out Guin is ingratiating himself to Gym as subject and it's clear how the power dynamics have shifted.