As a viewer of Star Trek as a kid, there's a LOT of details

Technically, Star Fleet is a research fleet that doubles as the military when necessary. Usually they're supposed to be doing research and exploration .

>>15563165
>We should be seeing Vulkan, Andoran, etc "Federation" ships out there shouldn't we?
No, not really. Federation ships are ships for the whole Federation. What we should be seeing however is that they are built all over Federation space instead of seemingly just at Utopia Planetia and other Sol system hotspots.

>>15563165
>Yet all the ships seem to be crewed by humans, it's based out of Earth, and the Earth seems to be the most important. We should be seeing Vulkan, Andoran, etc "Federation" ships out there shouldn't we?
The shows only ever follow the ships that are human-majority, A) because it's what we're most familiar with and B) prosthetic foreheads are expensive and time-consuming to apply

>>15563193
Does it really matter where they're built when you can move them to anywhere you want within the quadrant in less time than it takes to construct them and no one really needs regional jobs because it's a post-scarcity society with universal income? It's not like Gorlox XII is lobbying for the new starport because they have crippling unemployment.

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This show is a lot more entertaining now that I'm not a kid who either doesn't understand the dialogue or ignores it completely in favor of the action sequences.

>>15563193
>>15563194
The thing is, there's plenty of federation ships out there. But what we focus on are STARFLEET ships. If you'll remember, Starfleet Academy is in San Francisco. Starfleet Headquarters is on Earth. The entire thing with Starfleet seems headed up by humans.

It's kind of like how you have the UN, and you have UN Peacekeepers, and then you have NATO. Yet a lot of the 'world-policing' you see is the US specifically with support from allies.

>>15563165
>We should be seeing Vulkan, Andoran, etc "Federation" ships out there shouldn't we?

The thing is that, while the Federation is humans and a bunch of other races as a political faction, most of the aliens that matter have their own fleets and resources as well.

Vulcan is part of the federation, but the Vulcans have their own fleets, because they kept their ships and shipyards when they joined. Same goes for the Andorrans and whatnot.

But Humans don't have a separate government. Starfleet basically IS our government and the closest thing we have to a military. There is essentially no human-specific fleet, just Federation vessels.

So while as a faction humans are one among many, we are the bread and butter of starfleets crew roster because most aliens have 2 choices about fleets to join, and we have only one.

Which sounds like a shitty deal, until you remember that Starfleet is probably the best fleet around by a wide margin. Not just in terms of comforts (god, serving on a Federation ship is cushy as fuck. Even with Holodeck rations, the fact that the holodeck IS A THING makes the job pretty sweet) but it says a lot about Starfleet that humanity went through something like 6 space wars before we finally eventually encountered the Borg and said "Fine, I guess it wouldn't hurt to have SOME dedicated military ships..."

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I don't know if this is ever mentioned in any of the shows, but in fan maps Earth is always shown in a very central location. I mean, if Earth was chosen as the capital of the Federation precisely because it's such a nice location, then great. But I really don't recall this being mentioned in any of the series. Earth is a founding member of the Federation, so of course it should be important, but I also always felt that EVERYTHING being located there was a bit weird.

>>15563292
> "Fine, I guess it wouldn't hurt to have SOME dedicated military ships..."

Yeah, because their science vessels are fucking hax.

Lets look at the dominion war:

> Heavily fortified planet
> ringed with orbital defense platforms built with dominion tech, with shields that can shrug off photon torpedos and guns that chew through ships at an alarming rate.
> Even with concentrated fire, as long as the power generator supply them is online, the Federation can't touch them. And the Power generator is in a super fortified bunker, the most heavily protected part of the whole system.

This is clearly a highly advanced weapons platform that is the result of extensive research and decades of development, designed to hold off entire fleets.

And all it takes is one federation engineer to say "Hey, those guns are pretty sweet. Who wants to use the main deflector dish to project a federation warp signature onto the power generator, so it gets shot to shit by their own guns?"

And then they do that. And the fight suddenly goes from the Dominion rolling face to the Dominion sitting there impotently screeching that deflector dishes are BULLSHIT.

>>15563322
I remember a copypasta about that. That for all the brilliant science of these races that have been in space for far longer, not matter how singularly adapted they are to a thing, they cannot compare to the sheer ability of humans to break shit.

Like holy crap, that's the one skill of Federation engineers, how they bullshit and jury-rig things to bend time and space and either fix the unfixable or break the unbreakable.

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>>15563322
>science vessels
Strictly speaking, aren't we all vessels for science?

That's right Anonymous, the truth is that science was inside you all along!

>>15563318
Official maps show the same thing. And from what we see in Enterprise, the other founding races didn't really get along well with each other before Starfleet started trying to befriend the shit out of them, making Earth the glue that held the whole thing together. That seems like another reason Earth would be chosen as the capital; being the most "neutral" of the founding members.

>>15563329

Yeah, it reaches a peak in DS9. Where it basically becomes canon that if you void the warranty on your transporter you risk accidentally beaming your dudes to alternate dimensions. Of course they almost immediately figure out how to do it on purpose, and they go back and forth a bunch of times.

The only reason more people don't do it is because apparently is supposed to be illegal, under the same umbrella as time travel tech, because its technically an alternate timeline.

Speaking of which, with the right setup you can void the warranty on your transporter EVEN MORE to beam someone backwards or forwards in time, though only under certain conditions.

Fucking transporters, man.

One of the best moments in the show is when Dominion diplomats meet the federation for the first time. Their envoy meets Chief O'brien, and says "Ah, one of your much acclaimed 'federation engineers'! To hear the stories, you can make replicators out of rocks. (Chuckles externally)"

And O'brien, completely straight faced, says "Those stories are wrong. I don't need rocks."

[Laughter Stops]

To this day, I can't say for certain that O'brien was kidding. I mean, he was probably kidding. But I wouldn't bet too much money on it.

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>>15563322
>>15563329

>>15563349

Obviously that copypasta makes the federation seem way more irresponsible than it is portrayed in the show for comedic purposes, but they are not wrong that there is a whole bunch of weird science shit that happens on federation ships that doesn't seem to happen to anyone else.

You never hear about a KLINGON ship whose holodeck has become sentient and taken control of the bridge using a holographic crew ripped from a famous Klingon opera, never once breaking song.

The Ferengi ALMOST NEVER get lost in time and space. And the only recorded instance of it happening was on Earth anyway, so 90% sure the humans were at fault somehow anyway.

Andorran warp drives have never spit out a baby who ages at an accelerated rate to learn touching life lessons and then die of old age in a matter of hours to the tears of the crew.

>>15563165
That could be a nice plot point that I'm not sure has been utilized yet. The Federation accepts post-warp civilizations as member candidates, and as far as we've seen Starfleet crews travel in Federation designed ships. What happens to the ships built before Federation membership? Some huge cash-for-clunkers trade in program?

>>15563193
If the stuff posted at memory-alpha can be taken as canon, ships do seem to be built at many locations. The USS Prometheus was built at the The 40 Eridani A Starfleet Construction Yards in the Vulcan system, and the USS Defiant was built at the Bajor sector Antares Ship Yards.

Even though the USS Galaxy was built at the Utopia Planitia yards, research and fabrication centers throughout the Federation combined their efforts to build it under authority of Starfleet's Advanced Starship Design Bureau (ASDB).

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>>15563349
>>15563367
It kind of goes towards explaining why Humanity seems to plow through tech progression and catch up/overtake so many older races too. And explains the Vulcan "slow the fuck down" attitude from Enterprise.
Most races are probably like
>okay, we've discovered this new technology and we're going to spend years testing it thoroughly to make sure it doesn't horribly backfire before we put it on our ships
but then Humans come along and are like
>okay, we've discovered this new technology and got it kinda working most of the time maybe so we're gonna stick it on our most important ships and if things go full Event Horizon on us we'll fix it along the way

>>15563322
Yeah that's right because FUCK SPACE BATTLESHIPS!

Because you know what is better?

SPACE SCIENCE BATTLE SHIPS!

>>15563283
This guy gets it. The Federation is a union of Planets. Starfleet is the paramilitary exploration and research component of the Federation headed by Earth.

How bad/good Discovery will be? I heard it's yet another reboot.

>>15563483
You heard the delusional ramblings of someone that can't come to terms with the fact that they're updating the visual design of the era. It's still set in the prime timeline.
From what we've seen of the trailers it could go either way; they don't show anything that we didn't already know from leaks, and didn't clear anything up.
Also from past experience, Trek trailers usually end up telling a far different story than the actual episodes. We're just going to have to wait until we see more before making any real calls.

>>15563437
>>okay, we've discovered this new technology and got it kinda working most of the time maybe so we're gonna stick it on our most important ships and if things go full Event Horizon on us we'll fix it along the way


Which is what, in turn, makes the Federation punch well above its weight.

Not just because we have bleeding edge tech that honestly probably shouldn't be in production yet, but because cleaning up after our constant stream of self imposed fuckups gives Starfleet crews some utterly bonkers levels of experience.

In one of the early episodes of DS9, a member of the continuum visits the station. A godlike being that can reshape reality on a whim and personally known for being a trickster little shit.
He is spotted almost immediately because one of the starfleet officers recognizes him personally, and upon being confronted by the closest thing to an all-powerful being that the setting has, instead of panicking his first reaction is "Fuck me, this shit again? I better tell the captain today I'm not fixing the coffee machine today."

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>>15563521
I always found it weird how nobody seemed to take Q seriously after his first few appearances. He's omnipotent, he can destroy you with a thought, stop speaking to him like he's a nuisance that keeps getting in the way of something more important. That goes for Picard, Janeway, and especially Sisko, who literally punched him.

>Do you think you can modify the X so that it can fit/replicate/produce Y?
>I don't know captain, it's never been done before.

Just once I want an engineer to go "yeah, that's actually pretty easy".

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>>15563542
>Captain, that'll take at least 6 hours!
>You have 20 minutes!

And then they actually did it, every time. Based B'Elanna was the only person to tell her captain to fuck off and let her do her job as it needed to be done

>>15563292
>Even with Holodeck rations, the fact that the holodeck IS A THING makes the job pretty sweet

Don't later ships have holoprojectors all over the ship? That way you can just use your bedroom as a holodeck?

>>15563329
>fix the unfixable or break the unbreakable.

row row fight da dominion

>>15563568
Pretty sure they actually have someone mention how engineers pad their estimates just so they look better when they get it done in less time. Think it was Scotty when he appeared in TNG.

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>Miles O'brien is a veteran of hundreds of space battles
>Experiences a 20-year prison sentence in minutes
>Lost his daughter to a wormhole
>Discovers daughter as a feral teenager hours later
>Releases feral daughter back to wormhole, gets his daughter back by pure luck
>Daughter barely knows he exists
>Berrated by his wife
>Wife is possessed by evil lifeform, slight improvement
>Patronized by his best friend
>Always aware his wins at the bar are hollow pittances
>Third wheel in a love triangle
>Concludes he shouldn't act on infidelity, still goes in for the kiss
>Sucks at being a klingon
>Mirror-universe O'Brien gets even more shit
>Mirror O'Brien nicknamed "Smiley"
>One bad laugh away from being known as "Smelly"
>Kidnapped, cloned
>Clone dies full of mortal dread, only to realize he is a clone
>Kirk personaly yelled at him
>Nearly got condemned to death by the impartial and fair Cardassian justice for no reason
>Stuck on a ruined planet, wounded for an accident he didn't commit while giving instructions to the least tech-savvy member of the DS9 crew
>Stuck retrofitting a boobytrapped filled asylum
>Entire repair and maintenence crew of DS9 is full of maquis traitors, infiltrated Circle terrorists, butthurt Bajorans and Starfleet rejects
>Wife loses her job because of butthurt religious nuts from Bajor

>Stuck upside down in a jefferies tube for two days and no one cared because the Ferengi sideplot got too good
>"I'll need two days of full shifts." "You have 8 hours."
>Killed hundreds

>>15563542

>Oh yeah, I did that last week when I was drunk. Almost overloaded the warp core, but I think I can handle it sober.

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>>15563593
>>Wife is possessed by evil lifeform, slight improvement

God damnit, so true.

I have major yellow fever and even I couldn't stand her.

Lets not forget this monstrosity of a kimono.

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>>15563593
>Picard was the only person from the Enterprise to say goodbye to him when he left for DS9
>When Worf comes to the station he wants nothing to do with O'Brien

Why was life so cruel to him? I wonder if he could have been happy with that qt Cardassian he was unknowingly courting.

>>15563589
That does ring a bell.

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>>15563593
>Wife is possessed by evil lifeform, slight improvement
Let's not understate it here; it wasn't just some evil lifeform, she was possessed by Bajoran Satan.
Bajorans are bad enough to begin with, but their fucking devil of all things decides to take his wife's body for a joyride.
And it was an improvement.

>>15563618
To be fair, Worf doesn't really get chummy with anyone. But they did share one of my favorite Trek Quotes; remember their time on the Enterprise.

Worf: "We were like warriors from the ancient sagas. There was nothing we could not do."
O'Brien: "Except keep the holodecks working right."

>>15563700

It says a lot about the Enterprise that O'brien, who was certainly a good engineer but kind of nowhere near the top of the ranks, is like a fucking WIZARD in DS9 compared to everyone else.

"If we want to find the captains crashed shuttle in the middle of this ion storm, we'll have to invent a never before imagined kind of metal signature detector, build it using the parts on this shuttle alone, and install it on the outside of the ship, from the inside of the ship, without a spacesuit."

O'Brien: "Uggggggh. Okay, yeah, I can do that."

"We have at most an hour before the captain runs out of oxygen."

"...fine."

Some people say that the fact that he pulled that shit off is unbelievable.

What I say is unbelievable is that Obrien never asked for a raise afterwards.

I can't even imagine the letter of recommendation that man must have eventually gotten, since he went maybe 3 episodes at a time without directly saving his boss's life.

>>15563776
>I can't even imagine the letter of recommendation that man must have eventually gotten
He got offered a teaching position at Starfleet Academy. He was literally so good at that shit that they wanted him above all others teaching the next generation of cadets how to be space wizards.

>>15563781

God, that would be the coolest class.

"Now, this is how you rig a tricorder to act as a control module to pilot your shuttle for you, if you are lacking a guidance computer and conventional interface."

"Professor Obrien... why would we ever need to do that?"

"Hopefully? Never. Hopefully you never have the front of your shuttle sheared off by a cardassian battleship, leaving you with a power core and engines but no way to control them. Hopefully, even after you use the shields to contain you dwindling atmosphere, you have a distress beacon you can use to call for help. Except no, you don't have that, that was in the front of the ship. Hopefully your commanding officer won't assume you are dead and decline to dispatch a search and rescue."

"But if hopefully stops working, you have two choices. You can spend 8 hours trying to figure the damn thing out for yourself, OR you can pay attention and figure out how to do it in less than one."

>>15563781
>>15563857
I'm suddenly reminded of a /tv/ poster giving long winded, slurred explanation of Theseus's Ship as Miles O'Brien

>>15563318

Earth is in a central location because it's where the people we're following are from - it's not like the Romulans or the Klingons are going to tell us what's behind them. In a way it's similar to old Babylonian maps that have them at the center.

Eventually, in DS9 and Voyager, we see that the Federation is in the Alpha Quadrant and isn't anywhere special at all.

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>>15563541
Once the federation realized he's not actually going to do shit, he turned into Mr. Mxyzptlk. The guys personality is fuck around, but don't break beyond repair. Problem is Everyone figured that out and he stopped being regarded as a real threat.

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>>15563589
>>15563637
Yeah, it was in Relics. Scotty's fluttering about in the engine room while Geordi's trying to work. He does little old man things like opening the dylithium chamber and exclaiming that they're dangerously low, and Geordi calmly explains that they don't need as much because they use it more efficiently.

And then he gets asked remotely to do something and he gives an estimate, and Scotty's all wink-wink nudge-nudge "How long will it really take?" And Geordi looks at him like he's mental, says it'll take as long as he said, to which Scotty bristles that 'How will you get your reputation as a miracle-worker if you don't pad your numbers?"

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>>15564061
I'm still trying to imagine how much more epic that scene (and everything) woulda been with jerry curls.

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>>15563541
>and especially Sisko, who literally punched him
The look he gets after knocking him down was pretty funny too.

>>15563776
Well the Enterprise was the flagship. staffed with the best of the best in all of Starfleet. And Picard himself did a wonderful job of picking his crew. He has an outgoing and friendly first officer to act as the face of the command structure, since Picard knows he can intimidating, he has a counselor that can sense the true feelings of the enemy, he has a Klingon warrior as chief of security, and a walking supercomputer. The Enterprise could have run itself perfectly fine without Picard's presence.

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>his smile and optimism: gone

What went wrong?

>>15563606
Wait, That's a kimono???

>Looks closer.

WTF did they do to it.

>>15565380
Keiko happened to it.

>>15563349
Kinda makes sense though. The Cardassians leave Terok Nor behind, breaking everything and leaving behind traps because they are salty as fuck over the treaty.

A mostly human Starfleet crew rolls in, and basically get everything up and running before they've finished sweeping the floors of garbage. Aside from a few kinks they seamlessly integrate Federation tech everywhere.

Then a couple years later they strap enough guns on it to make the Klingons look like a bunch of idiots, assuming that a former refinery converted to be an outpost would've been an easy smash and grab.

>>15563541
Why would you take him seriously? You can do literally nothing, he could make erase the Federation in the blink of an eye. Might as well just ignore him and play along until he goes away.

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>>15563367
>The Ferengi ALMOST NEVER get lost in time and space
Now hold on just a second. The Ferengi can be just as foolish as humans when necessary. And since this was the result of TNG, you can't go blaming VOY for it.

>>15563593
Also

>Irish Guy
>Still sings along on Jerusalem to humor British medical officer.

>>15563165
>a black man in command

>>15565158
New Quantum Leap when

>>15563165
>We should be seeing Vulkan, Andoran, etc "Federation" ships out there shouldn't we?
I can remember all/mostly Vulcan Starfleet ships being mentioned in TOS (The Space Amoeba One), TNG (The One With Geordi's Mom), and DS9 (The Baseball One). We just see the mostly-human crews because Styrofoam foreheads are hard to make well.

>>15565431
And they were all using standard Federation models, not Vulcan starships.

Maybe those things are supposed to still exist but since building models was fucking expensive they never showed any.

>>15565411
I remember that episode Janeway loses a way hom because she decided to force federation laws onto non federation rares outside federation space.

Absolutely retarded.

Dammit reminding me of VOY has in turn reminded me of Threshold.

>>15565433
That was certainly the case for TOS, when budget was so tight that the Romulans showed up with a D7 because we paid for that model, dammit.

For DS9, I've always thought that Captain Whatshisname being in Starfleet was part of the plot, to up the rivalry. They certainly had no problem making tons of models and/or CGI ships to appear in one-off fleet shots, anyway.

>>15565455
But that captain was captain of a ship which was just the Voyager model with the registry changed. It wasn't a specific Vulcan ship, as >>15563292 claims.

They'd do the occasional kitbash but it wasn't until they went full CG that they could just whip up a ship in a week and put it in the show.

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>>15565473
I don't think it was the Voyager model. Memory Alpha says it was a Nebula. The ship from TOS was the Intrepid, but it was a Constitution class because that's the only one they had.

Wasn't the end of DS9 full CG (at least for stuff they didn't have models of already), though? Take Me Out To The Holosuite was 7th season, and I've read that from that 6-parter in S6 onwards, there was quite a lot of CGI in use.

>>15565405
>Aside from a few kinks they seamlessly integrate Federation tech everywhere.
This reminds me of Stargate. I think in one of the episodes Sam mentions that the Prometheus is made of goa'uld, asgard and human technology and they made it work, but they're not sure exactly how.

Man, I loved that ship. Even after the humans made new, better designs, the Prometheus kept on trucking. I actually felt sad when that Ori satellite finally destroyed it.

>>15565158
>tfw no Vulcan gf

>>15565438
So what do you think was the cheapest excuse the writers ever pulled to keep them in the Delta quadrant? Obviously sticking around in order to impose Federation law on a bunch of Ferengi is a strong contender, as is being worried about something the Doctor's already fixed. I think not playing along with Q should also be considered (that one was at least twice, I think). That one time they found a fully functioning Tetryon reactor and only used it to make a short jump should also count. There was also that time they met superpowered Kes and conveniently forgot about the time she was better than a warp drive. My favorite is the time they met a shapeshifter with a space-folding ship, then made the whole plot about shapeshifting and completely forgot about the space-folding.

>>15565433
I vaguely recall something about the Federation ships using the best tech from each of the member species: Vulcan sensors, Terran hull design, Andorian weapons, and Tellarite... something with engineering. As I can't find a source, it's possible this was just someone's supposition, but it would make sense as to why we don't see the old ring drive warp system or a 24th century Kumari-class equivalent.

>>15565438
>Dammit reminding me of VOY has in turn reminded me of Threshold.
Emmy award winnning Threshold.

>>15565512
I was going to say that that drive wasn't reproducible with their tech, but they built one and threw it on a shuttle. Really should've been able to at least, well, shuttle their people home a dozen at a time or something.

>>15565526

> not reproduceable with their tech
> when replicators are a thing

What, is it MADE from latinum?

>>15565642
Or photon torpedos, or warp cores. After all, they've explicitly said they can't replicate those. Oh, wait...

>>15565521
Well at least Threshold was just incredibly stupid shit as opposed to moraly bankrupt repugnent shit like Tuvix (Janeway murders a guy to get clones of her two already dead crewmen) or Dear Doctor (Archer lies to a race he promised to help condeming them to extinction because his CMO told him a bunch of horseshit about evolution that he'd have know was wrong if he'd been to highschool)

Compaired to those even Threshold doesn't look half bad.

>>15565642
If they really had no limits, you'd just make a replicator a kilometre long and replicate Galaxy-class ships.

>>15565715
Also Threshold's Emmy was for makeup, which was legitimately excellent in that episode. It's just fun to bring up that it got an award.

>>15565855
I know but still it makes me snirk when i think about that episode.

>>15565855
To be fair though, the episode was actually pretty good until the last 10 minutes. If it wasn't for the rushed and nonsensical ending, it definitely would be one of the better episodes of the series.

Also it deserved that Emmy, just as a thank you to all the people who put so much effort into what became an infamous throwaway episode.

>>15565855
>you'd just make a replicator a kilometre long and replicate Galaxy-class ships.

They... do. That's what an industrial grade replicator is.

Its just that the energy and matter requirements for copy-pasting an entire starship at once are astronomical, so its easier to just produce large sections of the ship that are designed to fit together like puzzle pieces instead.

These sections have a lot of the equipment missing, not because they can't include them as well but because the presumption is that Starfleet has better stuff by now. So they replicate the chassis and hull, but they deck out the important stuff by hand.

One of the details of the Cardassian war is that the Cardassians have wors shields, but significantly better armor than the Federation. Partly to try and make up for their shitty shields, but in large part because Cardassian metallurgy is more advanced by simple fact that they don't have replicator tech. They still seriously invest in better ways to refine and produce metals, whereas the Federation hasn't seriously improved their hull materials since they got the ability to replicate them for cheap.

>>15563894
Someone had to of screencapped that.

Seriously though O'brien is the real hero of DS9 with all the shit he did there.

>>15563593
>Releases feral daughter back to wormhole, gets his daughter back by pure luck
I can't remember why that episode made me angry when I watched it but I wish I never watched it. Only episode of Trek I entirely regret seeing. It's just the worst.

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>>15565494

Stargate was awesome when it came to the whole-i-have-no-fucking-clue-how-this-works-but-lets-make-it-a-superweapon thing it had going on.

It was a shame Universe sucked. All they had to do to fix the series (and the Destiny for that matter) was send the Atlantis team to the ship.

I never really got why the Destiny ever mattered. They had more advanced Ancient stuff (like the fucking city ship). Why did they need an old outdated ship?

Star Fleet is still technically the Earth government's space fleet. Since Star Fleet is good at being general purpose. They get to do all the Federation work. While all the aliens fleets are part of Star Fleet/Federation, but they only do specialist work or stay near their homeworlds. Like the Vulcans. Their race's fleet is part of the Science Academy. They pointy eared, green blooded, bastards are also pacifists. So they only have science and cargo vessels.

When the Bajorans almost joined the Federatino that firs time. Sisko comments on how the Bajoran Militia would have to be integrated into Star Fleet.

>>15565678

I assumed the torpedo comment was more of a "we can't reproduce them in a reasonable amount of time, so don't blow your load in one battle" type thing. Not WE CAN NEVER EVER MAKE THEM!

As for warpcores. Without a warp core, where would they get the power to replicate a warp core?

>>15563437
"Let there be light!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Wh-TUoYSNw

>>15566466
Destinty mattered initially because it was a ridiculously old long-term Ancient project and Earth wanted to see what the Ancients thought was important enough to merit that kind of investment. Once the team got there and got some computer access, it was important because they also wanted to know what the primordial signal was about.

The ship itself had some cool purpose-built tech (solar fueling, some sort of realspace FTL), but was ultimately unimportant compared to its mission.

>>15566425
I was under the impression they couldn't replicate the fancier bits of the ships. Hull and basic systems, sure, but not sensors or weapons or the warp core, at least not in their entirety.

>>15566475
>I assumed the torpedo comment was more of a "we can't reproduce them in a reasonable amount of time, so don't blow your load in one battle" type thing. Not WE CAN NEVER EVER MAKE THEM!
See, that would've been the sensible thing to do. Unfortunately, "No way to replace them after they're gone" doesn't really work with that meaning.

They could've easily sidestepped the fan bitching by having a line in some status report about trading for new tech that let them slowly replenish their supplies. The writers either didn't care or were overruled.

>>15566425
>>15566602
Replicators can't make complex items.

A replicator strawberry looks, feels, smells, and tastes close enough, but it isn't a strawberry. Just textured carbs, and chemicals to give it the appropriate smell and taste.

they could, but the data file needed is huge and it makes production more complicated. since you are having to reproduce plant cells instead of just printing out a mostly homogenous strawberry sponge.

>>15563190
until they jerk off the Klingons and cause a war.

>>15566425
Wrong replicators dont just majic shit up they use inert matter and assemble it into an item however it's energy intensive due to having to assemble things molicule by molicule so the bigger and more complex the task the harder it is to replicate something.

Industrial size replicators are just bigger normal ones that are used to make larger components they still need assembly. It's also why they still mine substances because:

A/ Not everything can be replicated.

B/ If they've got the actual substances needed to make something the energy cost goes down because the relplicator only has to assemble the item and not the materials its made from too.

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bump because I don't want to have to go to /tv/ to talk about Star Trek

>it's an episode that takes place entirely within the ship
I love those so much, and I don't know why

>>15568776
Usually it means you have to have to writers and actors carry it, and if they're up to the task they can really shine. It's also nice to have a break from the usual formula. Trek's managed to have some really strong episodes like that: The Drumhead, Duet, The Wire, Projections, all among the better memories I have of their respective series.

>>15568776
There's also 420/1701/
They had a thread about the porn fanfic based on Rascals for a.few years.

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I just watched the first episode of Enterprise. I really enjoyed it, much more than I thought I would. The cast is pretty legit and I like the conflict with between Starfleet and the Vulcans. Does the series get better or worse from here on out?

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>>15569617
>Does the series get better or worse from here on out?
Yes.
It has the usual ups and downs of early Trek seasons, but at some point in s2 the overall quality starts to climb. 3 is mostly good and 4 is mostly great, barring the very last episode which is just a giant kick in the dick.

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>>15569617
Eh, it doesn't really change at all. There are some interesting episodes in seasons 1 and 2, but the majority of them are mediocre. Then in season 3 it's one long, serialized story that fans are pretty divided on, I personally thought it was great. Then in season 4 pretty much every episode is awesome.

Just like all the other series, it takes ENT two seasons to get good.

>>15568776
That's one reason I like DS9. Most episodes are just "what bullshit is going to happen on the station today?" and "how much of it is Quark's fault?"

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>>15570045
>>15570050
Looks like I'm in for a ride. I literally started watching this because of the previous /m/ Trek thread that started with
>Stop hating Enterprise
Well here I am, anon. You did it.

>>15570134
For fun, try to keep track of how many times Archer's petulant for no reason.

>>15563618
>Outranked by NOG
When was this?

>>15566466
Weir was a better leader for Atlantis.

>>15571348
When Nog came back from the Starfleet academy. O'Brien isn't an officer, just a grunt. He's just a soldier MOST DANGEROUS

>>15571382

> He's just a soldier MOST DANGEROUS

In all honesty, in an engagement with Obrien on the other side, taking him out would probably be my number 1 priority.

10 dudes with guns I can just shoot. But as long as Obrien is alive, there is an escalating chance that he is going to set some kind of science trap that utterly wrecks the shit of me and my entire army.

>>15571418
>O'Brien had served aboard a half dozen starships, participated in 235 separate combat engagements, and been decorated by Starfleet on fifteen occasions.

No shit. Noncommisioned or otherwise, I don't want to be on any ship facing off against the one he's on.

>>15571352
You just reminded me of all the retarded things the staff did to try to get the audience back:
>The doctor dies!
>Weir dies!
>No, she's back. But she's is a replicant now!
>The asgard return! But they're evil now!
>Sam comes!
>Picardo comes!
>The crew dies! Lol no, timeline reset.
>Shepard dies! Lol no, alternate universe.

>>15571456
I wouldn't want to be serving WITH him either, we're talking about >>15563593 after all.

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>>15571477
>>The asgard return! But they're evil now!

I legit like that. We knew from Loki that rogue Asgard were a possibility, it was cool for them to actually expand on that idea.

What I didn't enjoy that much were the Pegasus Replicators. New Replicators isn't a too-out-there idea, but the concept had played itself out in the universe.

>>15563292
You just have to hope you're not on one of the no name ships that encounters the new space anomaly and/or alien race introduced that week before the hero ship does. Because you're going to die if that's the case.

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>>15571540
Or be trapped inside for 90 years

>>15571341
I don't know if it counts, but I just watched episode 3 and he got really sulky and mad during dinner.

>>15571477
I liked all of those except Vegas, which people seem to love and I don't understand why.

>>15571555
I think that's one of them. When Berman and Braga are writing, he does that a lot. There's one episode where he asks T'pol if she did something he asked her to, then a few minutes later chews her out for doing that thing. Other writers tend to make him less... unhinged, maybe even professional.

>>15563367
Don't Klingon ships not have holodecks? I'm pretty sure the other races encounter as much space bullshit as the Federation, it just usually ends with the ship getting blown up, wiped from time, or any other number of bad things.

>>15563497
It could be the best Trek thing ever, it's still going to die because it's stuck on that CBS only netflix ripoff.

>>15563344
>Fucking transporters, man.

Dont forget that you can literally save scum your way through life with them by saving a copy of your body in the database, and reverting your body to that save when youget old or sick.

But thats illegal too in feddy space.

And then that cloning shit that happened with Riker. You could probably make an unlimited number of goddamn clones withna few transporters.

And then that time Scotty stored himself in the buffers for a hundred years when his ship crashed hoping somebody would find it and pull him out.

FUCKING TRANSPORTERS.

>>15563589
>>15564061
The thing is that's a real thing engineers have done since long before Trek was a thought in Roddenberry's head.

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>>15571570
Archer's weird. He's the captain who I feel changed the most during his adventures. In all the other series, we met the captains when they were people who had already been working in space for years, but with Archer we see him from the very start of his exploration career. So in the beginning he's a wide-eyed little kid who wants to see everything, and by the end he's much more serious and disillusioned with his job.

>>15563593
And doesn't he get out ranked by Nog of all people by the end of DS9?

>>15565004
>he has a counselor that can sense the true feelings of the enemy

When has she ever been useful?

>>15571498
I think I stopped watching when the Replicators came back. It just felt like "okay, you guys really don't have any more ideas, do you." Sounds like I didn't miss much?

>>15571617
That episode where she lost her powers

>>15571617
That episode where she was a Romulan.

>>15571621
You missed some fun bits and a few really nice effects shots. If you were already tired of the show by that point, I doubt you'd have cared for the rest, though I enjoyed it.

>>15571617
That episode with the half-Betazoid conman.

>>15565512
The Q episode where he wants to make a baby with Janeway pissed me off. Given how the Q are you would think she would at least ask everything she could about how the process would go. Whole time through the episode she assumed it would work the same as if a human impregnated her despite knowing just how different the Q are from them.

>>15565678
>>15566475
I thought it was only the actual explosive, in this case anti-mater, that they couldn't replicate with what they had on board. I don't think any series goes into where they get their anti-mater. Do they find it or do they need something a starship just can't have for whatever reason to produce it?

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>>15571617
first couple seasons Troi was a straight telepath. but then they decided to neuter her to an empath unless it was another telepath she was communicating with.

she basically became Sigourney Weaver's character from Galaxy Quest. but with people's rather obvious emotions.

>>15571617
I'm pretty sure she got kidnapped/held hostage a couple of times. I guess that was pretty useful in the sense that no one else of any worth got taken off their job instead.

>>15571622
she had like one episode where her power matters.

the one where the autist engineer in the warp nacelle commits suicide. because of some sort of telepathic echo of a crewman raping and killing a woman during ship construction. coming from her skeleton hidden inside a wall.

>>15571591
>And then that cloning shit that happened with Riker. You could probably make an unlimited number of goddamn clones withna few transporters.

Imagine if they made an army of O'Brians.

>>15571650
Maybe I'll revisit it some time. I like a lot of Stargate's fundamentals (no franchise portrays a desperate struggle against long-shot odds like they do) but I did churn through it really quickly.

>>15571683
When I was young I always assumed she was a parody of Uhura with the whole communications officer thing but after watching both series through to completion yeah, she was much more a parody of Troi.

Since we're talking about Troi I always found it weird that she was allowed to wear something other than the uniform while on the clock. I guess maybe it's so whenever she consoled someone they'd be more casual with her but at the same time it made her seem unprofessional to me.

>>15571695
It's so weird to watch episodes before that and think there's a skeleton hiding in the enterprise somewhere. Maybe that's why it keeps on attracting all the spooky shit.

>>15571591
that one voyager race that had transporter that could beam people across 10 light years. allowing them to slowly replace the entire voyager crew. in fact their entire race uses that to take over any ship, planet, or space station that can.

you can transport to and from a cloaked ship.

imagine if you will. that you have your copy of Ensign Gary in the transporter buffer. You have a massive transporter system, and a cloaked ship. you sneak up on ships with shields down. Then you just straight up turn the entire bridge crew into copies of Ensign Gary. Then the engineering crew, and so on. Until the entire ship is crewed by copies of Ensign Gary. If an Ensign Gary dies, oh well, it was just a copy and the matter/energy was really from the alien crew. So it is still a net gain in your attempt to take over ships with out fighting with your own men and ships.

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>>15571721
>Troi, Kira and Seven all wear skintight suits
>all three look much hotter in Starfleet uniforms

Really pops your corn

>>15571721
Roddenberry's pinko commie shit leaking through in early seasons.

Later seasons she is in a blue uniform.

>>15571740
That had fuckall to do with Roddenberry's political leanings. It had everything to do with him being a lech.

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>>15571739
Man don't you start with that again.

>>15571575
>Don't Klingon ships not have holodecks?
Correct. There's no room for creature comforts on a Klingon ship. Only the captain even gets a chair. (except the episodes where others get chairs... Star Trek consistancy.)

>>15563165
>The Capital of the Federation is in Paris
I thought it was San Fransisco.
Or was that just Starfleet Command?

>>15571996
Yep. Starfleet Command/Academy is in SF, the President's office (and by inference the rest of the capital) is seen in Paris in VI.

>>15571703
The federation's resources would be put under unimaginable strain repurposing large numbers of personnel tasked with shitting on all of the new O'Briens, thus keeping them focused on menial tasks rather than taking over the universe through the power of science.

... that is, until one of the O'Briens devised a way to reengineer the cloning vats to produce an all new breed of self-flagellating O'Briens thus inadvertently creating a perpetual engine of depression/technological ascendancy..

>>15572021
That's probably what started the Temporal Cold War.

Kill all commie xeno scum

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>>15571477
>The asgard return! But they're evil now!

That was so cool. I wish they had done more with them.

>The crew dies! Lol no, timeline reset.
>Shepard dies! Lol no, alternate universe.

The time travel and alternate timeline episodes were both pretty cool.

Atlantis is probably my favorite Stargate though. The team was just so good. Prime-time O'Neil was the best though.

>>15571601
How the hell does Bakula not age?

>>15571668
>I thought it was only the actual explosive, in this case anti-mater, that they couldn't replicate with what they had on board. I don't think any series goes into where they get their anti-mater. Do they find it or do they need something a starship just can't have for whatever reason to produce it?
The TNG Tech Manual states Federation starships periodically visit starbases to re-fuel. They do carry the equipment to produce anti-matter, but the process is so energy-intensive (I think it was two parts of matter for one of anti-matter) that it's not worth it except in emergency cases.

>>15563318
Didn't the Klingons invade Cardassia at some point in DS9? Before the whole Dominion War thing, I mean. So how did they reach it? I don't think the Federation would let their invasion fleet travel through their territory.

>>15572727
Space is 3D, they could have gone around. Assuming that this was so far back they didn't have cloaks yet.

>>15572727
IIRC, they tried to launch an attack on Cardassia but were eventually stopped by Sisko and his cronies. It apparently happened because of territorial disputes around Cardassia. They did have to pass by DS9 to reach Cardassian territory.

>>15572727
The Feddies were still officially allied with the Klingons at the time, so all they could do was leak the info about the invasion to the spoonheads through Garak so they weren't caught with their leather pants down.

>>15572628
Frozen in time due to all the leaping.

>>15569617
Season 3 is one long plot for the most part and people are divided on it. Personally i found it a big improvement over S1 and S2 which have so truly awful episodes such as the one with Tucker being impregnated via rape or Dear Docter which has the Archer and Phlox genocide a race they agree'd to help so desu that bar isn't that high. The problem with S3 is it's plot is heavily linked in with the Temporal Cold War crap and that was poorly handled in S1&2 while S4 does have TCW stuff in it too it's generally handled abit better sadly S4 couldn't save it after the inconsistent clusterfucks that were S1&2.

S3 is fine if you haven't gotten sick of temporal plots by the time you get to it and it handles it better so if it doesn't bother you you'll be fine for S4 as well.

Oh and just skip the last episode it was the 'Final Gift' to trek fans from pair of hacks who caused most of the first two seasons problems and ultimatley killed Trek on TV.

>>15573172
The fact that I know it's going to end prematurely is hurting me right now. So far, I'm enjoying it much more than I ever expected. I like that the characters are so new to space and do down to Earth things like camping on a newly discovered planet or deliberately pissing off Vulcans just to get a rise out of them. They're just so much less professional than anyone else in future Starfleet. Their entire M.O. is 'fuck yeah humanity' and 'fuck yes, we're in space'. I really enjoy that.

I like Archer especially because he doesn't seem as sterile and jaded as other captains. He's like the kind of boss that everyone respects but is also almost like everyone's buddy, cracking jokes and getting excited about discovering things.

So far, the series does a really good job at conveying the sense of Starfleet doing this kind of stuff for the very first time. There's no rules and they're just flying by the seat of their pants.

RIP Star Trek ENT, you were dealt a bad hand

>>15565380

It's a SPACE Kimono.

>>15573257
Oh are you in for dissappointment. 90% of the time Archer tells aliens to fuck off and decides to ignore the advice they game him it ends badly because when you get down to it he's a bigger hipocrite than Janeway and twice as stupid.

the fact they gave Blackula such a bad character is testament to how much B&B failed when it came to writing Trek. they ran out of good ideas back during TNG.

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>>15573274
>the fact they gave Blackula such a bad character

>>15573283
Im tired what can i say. Sometimes my brain skips a beat when im like this.

>>15573068
There was no leak. Sisko just needed a new suit.

>>15573172
>while S4 does have TCW stuff in it too it's generally handled abit better
The only TCW stuff in S4 was the first episode of the season, and it was one of the most retarded in the show (even though alien nazis are always funny).

>>15573340
>it was one of the most retarded in the show
I thought it worked out as well as it could've given how deep a hole B&B threw the new writers into with the s3 finale.

>>15573365
They tossed decades of Trek down that hole too. hell they were so out of ideas they had a holodeck episode in a show before that tech was around.

Though considering the plot of that episode the holodecks were probably the least offensive bit.

>>15571591
>You could probably make an unlimited number of goddamn clones withna few transporters.

Yeah, the Feds without restrictions are about as broken as the Instrumentality of Mankind.

>>15571607
As soon as Nog comes back from the academy as a comissioned officer (a base rank Cadet.) Pretty much all of Star Fleet outrank him.

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>it's a 'nothing ever went wrong with the holodeck' series

>>15573761
>It's the Tucker got raped and impregnated by an alien and the plot plays it for laughs.

My fave part is how he goes saftey concious and finds shit thats so dangerous it could be found in a gilded age sweatshop.

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>>15573761
>it's a 'nothing ever went wrong with the holodeck' series
>DS9
You wot m8

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Post Trek girls

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>>15573840

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>>15573840
Posting

>>15573834
Technically that was a transporter malfunction, not a holodeck malfunction.

>>15573900
>holodeck safeties get turned off and everything is set to kill
Sounds like a malfunction to me.

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>>15573879
>mfw I found out Selar was Alexander's mom

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Best holodeck episode in your opinion? For me, it's this one.

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>>15573953
Does Future Imperfect count?

If not, Badda-Bing, Badda-Bang.

>>15573992
I would say so, that's a great episode. I'd better go rewatch it.

>>15573912
Oh, that's right. I remembered that they could leave and just chose not to, but forgot about the safeties shut-off. I guess there was nothing to drive Garak to the brink otherwise.

>>15573953
Author, Author, followed by Life Line.

>>15573992
Is that the ep where Sisko refused to have fun because negroes having fun was not historically accurate to that era? I liked that, it was as if Far Beyond the Stars came full circle and Sisko finally decided to loosen up from his 20th century black man LARP.

>>15573953
That's definitely my favorite.

Of the ones that haven't been mentioned yet, perhaps Bride of Chaotica and Take Me Out To The Holosuite are up there. I also have a soft spot for The Big Goodbye, despite how unpolished it looks now.

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>>15573953
These Are The Voyages, of course.

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>>15574347

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>>15574312
>Is that the ep where Sisko refused to have fun because negroes having fun was not historically accurate to that era?
Yeah, man. How dare he not want to roleplay a period in history 100 years after blacks were freed from enslavement, were still being lynched by white mobs and living in abject poverty as second class citizens? What a party pooper!

>>15573953
A Fistful of Datas, by far. And although it doesn't count, Q-Pid is also up there.

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>>15573590

The Feds without restrictions are the frigging Culture.

If I wanted to get into Star Trek, should I just do it the good ol' fashion production order?

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>>15574963
I'd say start with the series that catches your eye, but starting with TOS and going from there is a fine choice.

>>15574963
That's generally considered to be the best approach, just be sure to not skip over the animated series.

>>15574967
>>15574968
Is the remaster version of TOS ok? No weird shenanigans with it that I'm used to seeing when it comes to old anime being re-released in HD?

>>15574971
The remastered version has new special effects put in when they could. So for example shots of the ship are all CGI replacing the physical models they originally had but shots with actual humans on screen aren't touched up since replacing the phaser effects would have been to difficult.

Some people like the new effects. But I'm not one of them, it just makes the show look internally inconsistent to me. The blurays I got let you switch between the original effects and the remastered version on the fly and I think that's standard for all of them.

If you're going to pirate I'd say just get a few episodes of both versions and see what you prefer before downloading the rest.

>>15574971
>>15574976
Personally, I would go with the original effects. I'm so mad they replaced the physical models. That's sacrilege.

>>15574979
>That's sacrilege.
It's fine as long as both versions are available in high definition. Sacrilege is what Lucas did with the original trilogy when he went "the CG version is the real one now".

>>15575005
That's true, we have the option so it's all good. What happened to Star Wars is just sad. I mean, a big appeal of Star Wars were the models. The fuck, Lucas.

>>15575005
Also unlike Lucas, they didn't make major storytelling changes. It's just a replacement of a few effects shots.

Of course, comparing it to that is just lowering the bar.

>>15574979
I somewhat agree with you, but the effects on TOS were absolutely awful. TNG remastered looks wonderful, because the original effects were expertly made. That wasn't the case with TOS.

Seeing how TOS is just around $50, I might just buy it

I liked the new effects on TOS. I thought they were tastefully done, like that shot of the station in Trouble With Tribbles.

>>15574971
No, it is not okay. They replaced classic footage with out of place CG. It ruins everything, you must avoid it.

But as for production order, yeah. Rough production order is best. Doesn't have to be strict, but don't do anything crazy like watch ALL of TNG before starting DS9 or all of DS9 before Voyager or you'll miss the crossover moments. You could do a season at a time, or just alternate episodes once you get roughly at the right spot. As for the movies, look up the release dates to get the right production order, or you could just watch the first 6 ignoring production order (5 and 6 were released during TNG's run)

>>15571719
why not both?

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>watching Enterprise
>suddenly Jeffery Combs
Hell yes

>>15577241
Because the main parody element of Tawny Madison is that she's superfluous and just says things the audience already knows, which applies to Troi but not to Uhura. Communications officer and lone bridge female are about the only traits they have in common. That and showing skin, but Troi is more noteworthy on that point, too, since Uhura just wears what all female officers wear.

>>15578433
>Troi is more noteworthy on that
Troi Cleavage<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Uhura legs

>>15578229
He was a great addition to the cast. The whole later part of the series involving the Andorians was a highlight. Considering that they were a founding member of the federation that got almost no screen time in any other series it was supper disappointing for the show to be canceled once the writers finally decided to use them.

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>>15578467
Uhura had more than just legs.

>>15578473
Yeah, especially when rumors say the writers were planning to turn Shran into part of the Enterprise's crew. Imagine the potential of both he and T'pol sharing the bridge; they could've been the new McCoy/Spock.

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>>15578492
Season 5 of Enterprise would have been really good.

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>>15578560
Dammit, forgot link

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Undeveloped_Star_Trek:_Enterprise_episodes#Proposed_fifth_season_episodes

>>15563283
>>15563193
>>15563165

Did you guys watch ENT or read the books? The federation started as a military alliance to fight space Romans(romulans). Everything was headquarterd out of earth because vulcan(and I'm pretty sure Andoria) got bombed. The Vulcan's and Andorians also were rebuilding because they just had fought a war against each other (that humans stopped)

Those weird pig skin guys that are the 4 charter species? I think their excuse is they were less advanced and relied on warp 2 drives the vulcans sort of gave them out of pity. That sentence is 70% wrong, but I stand by what i just said.

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>>15578637
Are the relaunch books good? I've always been interested in those unofficial continuations to ENT and DS9, but never took the plunge into actually reading them.

I know that DS9 is destroyed and is replaced with this ugly thing.

>>15578654
That design is silly. Those curving protrusions were supposed to be ship docking ports, but how can ships dock when they join together at the ends like that?

>>15578654
>I know that DS9 is destroyed and is replaced with this ugly thing.
My god.

>>15578654
the ENT books are the only ones worth reading imo, and I suffered through a lot of DS9 and TNG pulp. The writers kind of understood that it fell on them to actually end the story.

>>15578701
Knowing the Federation, they probably did something like build a fuckhueg transporter, from which they beam entire ships directly into the pattern buffers of an untested, prototype holodeck.

>But what are the curvy bits even for, then?

Don't be silly. Those are the warp nacelles!

>>15563541
because if he wanted to hurt them he would've done it already

>>15565416
in TNG it was stated that Ireland reunified in the 23rd century, I think everyone's over it by the 25th/26th century

>>15565425
never ever
it's too weird for executives, it doesn't really have a canon to follow, it's really hard to tell ongoing stories with it, and the heavy overtones about equality would probably turn into lectures

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Have a rare Sisko

>>15578752
What, no. In TNG Data said that the Irish unification was in 2024. There's even a Memory Alpha article about it.

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Irish_Unification_of_2024

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>>15578637
>space Romans

Why did they make a race with all this Roman inspiration and nomenclature, but so un-Roman in character? They should have been bolder warrior types similar to the Klingons. Instead they're sneaky and underhanded, a lot more British Empire than Roman Empire.

>>15578780
fuck, I thought I might've been off

>>15578819
In Balance of Terror that's sort of what they are. The Romulan commander and troops in that episode are driven by honor and glory.

But then later writers, especially in TNG, decided they have cloaking devices so they must be sneaky fucks.

>>15578847
Agreed. I think that also came from the idea that the Federation hadn't seen a Romulan before Balance of Terror, which probably came from the desire to do a "Stiles distrusts Spock" theme.

>>15578560
>Look Look it's totaly not an upside down Akira now it's another Connie copy BUT ENT DID IT FIRST!

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>>15578940
Oh come on, the execs straight up said to just have it be the Akira, the designer was working with the orders he had.

What weirds me out is how top level network executives for some reason knew that the Akira was a popular design among the fans.

>>15578973
Not the execs it was B&B the dipsits who ultimately killed the show and Trek on TV who wanted to use the Akira.

That being said i really dislike the NX Refit it's such a massive change that it probably would have been easier just to build a new ship. not to mention the obvious 'Look it's just like the other series' homage which they'd already overdone in the 4 series we did get.

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>>15571548

>>15579087
So how exactly do you move around in one of those things while they're on? Also how did Data throw that one rock into the wall early on? Wouldn't it have just displayed the rock keep on going?

>>15579110
the floor is made of treadmills
or to quote Geordi "moving floors and other tricks"

>>15579120
>>15579110
The really weird aspect of it was how Janeway could fuck that hologram dude while other crew members were literally in the same room.

>>15578654
>>15578654
>>Are the relaunch books good?

More or less, yeah. In Enterprise...
-Trip Tucker didn't die. This is not a spoiler.
-The Romulan War!
-We see the Kobyashi Maru, and how Archer got screwed over.
-The founding of the Federation.
-Characterization for so many people who got screwed over in the show.

In DS9...
-A whole bunch of stuff I never got to read.
-Tom Riker, secret Starfleet Agent.
-Captain Ro Laren of DS9.
-Nog and O'Brien built that new DS9.
-O'Brien gets to experience "Die Hard on a Space Station with the Blob" with Nog and ex-Captain Benjamin Maxwell.

I preferred the TNG and Voyager ones better, though. From those, we get...
-Picard and Beverly Crusher hooking up.
-The Borg saying "fuck it" and sending a cube to Earth to eat the Solar System. It crashes into Pluto and eats it. And kills Janeway.
-Voyager getting fucked about with by a Starfleet that doesn't trust them. Among other things.

Then the fantastic Destiny books happen where the entire galaxy gets fucked by the Borg saying "fuck everyone, killing you all now" and is only stopped by the accidental parent species being guilted into taking action.

Post-Destiny...
-Picard and Beverly have a kid together, little Rene.
-Voyager leading a fleet back into the Delta Quadrant.
-Geordi gets to become Starfleet's "Captain of Engineering" while taking command of a ship for a while. It's an awesome book.
-Old DS9 gets nuked by anti-Federation forces, so the Federation has a base on Bajor for a book or two while the new station is built.
-Captain Janeway is given the chance to come back by Q's kid, because she's integral to his plans to stop the multiverse from collapsing
-Data comes back to life, thanks to Doctor Soong.

And other fun shit.

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>>15579360
Then we've got some of the recent Trilogy stories...

Star Trek: Cold Equations features Data's return thanks to Doctor Noonien Soong making a body for himself and getting the hell out of dodge after Lore killed him. It makes some sense in context.
Once Data's back, Picard and crew have to stop the Romulans from unleashing an army of Androids against the universe.
And then book 3 features Wesley Crusher recruiting the Enterprise-E to help stop the machine at the heart of the Galaxy that's going to go all Lavos on everything

Star Trek: Prey features the return of goddamned Kruge from Star Trek III, and his rebellion against the Klingon Empire. This also has the death of Kahless, Worf going head-on commando, and Klingons being awesome. Also, things are never as they seem.

Then, some of the individual stories...

Star Trek: Headlong Flight has the Enterprise-E, a post-Best of Both Worlds failure Enterprise-D (Captain Riker, dead Picard), and a TOS Romulan Warbird from an alternate Balance of Terror episode all trying to solve a world that keeps leaping through 5 alternate universes and is starting to rip the multiverse to shreds.

Star Trek: A Pocket Full of Lives has Voyager and Admiral Janeway's Delta Quadrant fleet coming across a pair of planets who are in the midst of intense war with one another. However, one species recognizes Janeway... because she's also the commander of the enemy army! And no, she's not a fake. Or a clone. Or an alternate Janeway. Or imaginary.

So yeah. There's some good shit.

>>15579360
>>15579389
what the fuck
like what the actual fuck
that is the wackiest shit I have read all year, and sadly most of it not in good ways

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>>15579398
To be fair, it's not any worse than any of the other things 'Trek has done. My favorite's gotta be the time Q showed up to give Picard his wedding gift.
An evening with Vash in an ancient, abandoned civilization.

Q's kind of an awesome dick.

I just realized I've never read a star trek novel.

I've seen each series multiple times, it's probably my favorite franchise but I've never done it. Where should I start? What should I avoid?

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>>15579444
Start with the series you like, really. If a cover looks cool, there's at least a chance it can be good. Case in point, #75 of the Original Series novels: First Frontier.
It has Kirk and Spock fighting Velociraptors.
And it's enjoyable fun.

On the other hand, avoid the fuck out of Gulliver's Fugitives. It's basically "hey, I have an original series book idea... but I put Next Gen characters into it. And they're fighting a planet who hate fiction. So Picard waves his fiction-tattoed dick in the planet's faces."
Also featuring completely random people who have meant the world to our named characters, but never showed up before!

Also a peyote-infused ending where fiction comes to life and conquers the planet.

Just... aaaaaaagh.

>>15578560
>>15578564
This has always bugged me, I'm no engineer or anything but can you just slap some new sections onto a preexisting ship? It seems like it would never be as structurally sound as if it was originally built that way.

>>15579494
It's probably going to be weaker (though that depends on what kind of welding-esque methods they have), but most of the hull stress is typically taken by the structural integrity field anyway, so that may not actually matter.

>>15579360
Sounds like the same fanfiction tier shit Trek books have always been.

>>15579110
> Also how did Data throw that one rock into the wall early on? Wouldn't it have just displayed the rock keep on going?
In thhe first holodeck malfunction episode it is mentioned that they just had a huge holodeck upgrade. Basically the holodeck rules introduced before that episode don't apply after it.

>>15578819
>but so un-Roman in character
Which era of Rome in particular? Early pre-Republic Rome can charitably be described as a city of thugs and whores, and late Imperial Romans thought legionnairing was beneath them and let non-Italians do all of their fighting for them.

>>15579753
Shhhh people think their pop culture conceptions of Rome are correct

>>15579782
It's Japan the one considered all honoraburu in pop culture. Rome is made of decadence, politics and slaves. About the romulans, they were re-written because the staff had already turned the klingons into the "honorable warrior" character type for TNG.

>>15579788
It really kills me that every Asian character is muh honor in western stories. They literally never have no other motivation and mention honor constantly. It's get real boring real fast.

>>15579792

Shame cultures, man. Even today, you are not supposed to seek help for mental illness in japan because it embarrasses yourself and your family/friends by association.

>>15579782
I'll have you know my concept of Rome isn't based on pop culture at all, but on ancient graffiti.

>>15580921
>Roman graffiti
>warriors 'n honor 'n sheeit
More like drunken frat boys and whores

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>>15573953
>wow this sentient computer program sure raises a lot of amazing questions about the nature of life and the capabilities of our ships' computer, didn't he say he could feel time passing even when his program wasn't running?

>yeah yeah just put him in a data crystal and toss him in the closet somewhere

They really didn't know how to end this one well.

>>15581043
Some say he's still in that closet, exploring his faux universe.

>>15580957
Also some telling people to stop shitting here. It's interesting to see how little people have really changed since Pompeii was a living town.

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>>15581086
wasn't there a book that re-explored the subject?
>>15580957
>>15581088
yo

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>>15581394
While reading Ancient Roman shitposting makes me happy because you realize humans have always been the same, it also makes me sad because you realize humans will always be the same.

>>15581415
well that's pretty much what Star Trek is about, isn't it?
except more hopeful
we can improve, albeit usually very slowly, but it never takes away from who we are

>>15581415
>>15581427
>To seek out new lives, new civilizations, new ways to shitpost. To boldly troll where no one has trolled before.

>>15581043
I always assumed smart holograms like Vic and the EMH were at least partially based on him.

>>15580018
You believe that. This means the bullshit protrayal of Japanese in your western shows is working. (Or are you just repeating some rubbish you heard on 4chan, eh?)

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>>15581445
>You said it yourself, Spock. There is no way to tag the hull of that machine, so I'm going to spraypaint a Federation dick right down its throat.

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>Enterprise is attacked by an unknown alien starship, as Archer orders the crew to install experimental "phase cannons". Meanwhile, Sato is ordered to find out what Reed's favorite food is for a birthday dinner.

These episode summaries, I swear

>>15581514
The thing that I find most unexplainable about Moriarty is the bit where Geordi says literally one sentence and the Enterprise computer responds by creating a sentient holographic life form. We don't get a "Please specify" or "More parameters required" or "This operation will take twenty-two years, five months, and six days. Please stand by." There's just a blip on Worf's console and "Enter when ready". Barclay can even put the result on a USB stick and use it as a paperweight. Sentience is EASY in Trek.

Somebody tell that jackass from "Measure of a Man" to stop wasting his time.

>>15581886
I got the impression that no one realized the computer could do that, it was supposed to, and afterwards it was locked out from being able to do it again
when it's mentioned on Voyager because they're having holodeck weirdness, it's the only example they bring up, when usually things like that warrant multiple examples; that implies to me that this was the only time it ever happened

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>It's a Data episode
>It's a 'Riker drowns in pussy' episode
>It's a Broccoli episode

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>>15582293
>It's a Dukat episode

>>15582293
>It's a 'Riker drowns in pussy' episode

But that's every episode

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The funniest episode is when they revisit the dark mirror universe and it shows the terrans got fucked up the ass by adopting a more peaceful lifestyle and ridding themselves of their warmongering conquering ways.

How's the ST fanbase in Japan? Is there any of that Japan "weirdness" to the Trekkies there?

>>15582920
Nico has a bunch of it dubbed.

>>15584280
Japanese dub DS9 is so good. I watch it for kicks every now and then.

>>15579444
The Corps of Engineers books are pretty fun. They're just these guys trying to deal with wacky Trek science on a tiny ship.

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So I've made it through 14 episodes of Enterprise now and I just don't get the hate.

In fact, I really like it. Granted, I've liked every Star Trek series I've watched so far but I see a lot of good things about this series.

At first, I was biased against it being a prequel and the ship design, but now I don't have any problems with either. The ship design looks more hi-tech than the original Entperise, but that's really just because it's got a more detailed exterior. However, the interior feels adequately lower tech than even TOS. It's got a good industrial look to it, with panels and controls that seem like a good midway point between real life space shuttles and sci-fi spaceships.

The cast of characters are also really good imo. Some are underdeveloped so far, like Mayweather, but the ones that they have focused on are well defined and likeable. There's continual development and I think the writers did a good job of making them seem more like modern day humans out in deep space for the first time rather than the more professional officers of the "later" series.

I haven't yet seen an episode that I thought was bad. In fact, when I compare it to the early seasons of TNG and DS9, it's overall a lot more solid. There hasn't been any episodes as thematic as Measure of a Man, but there also hasn't been any Code of Honor episodes. I think the writer really struck a great balance between creating an ongoing narrative and still keeping the sense of continual adventure found in TOS and TNG.

I could go on and on, but basically ENT is really good so far. It's a damn shame it got cancelled before its 5th season. I'm really bummed out about that right now. However, I still have a lot to look forward to.

/blog

My only complaint is the intro. The imagery is good, but the song is pretty cheesy.

>>15586659
I liked the time they let a species go extinct because nobody had ever taken a biology course. And the time Archer nearly let some crew members die because of his pride. And the time he transmitted military secrets to the enemies of humanity's only allies, which could easily have started an interstellar war. And the time Tucker got raped and it was played for laughs. There's probably more; I think Silent Enemy had some banal B plot that destroyed the tension the A plot was going for, but that might be on the network and not the writers.

Hell, I like Enterprise (mostly for what it became, but seasons one and two have some good), but there's piles of garbage in it and I can only assume the novelty is masking it.

>>15586927
>I liked the time they let a species go extinct because nobody had ever taken a biology course
Are you talking about the episode where Phlox finds a cure but they don't give it to the aliens? What was wrong with that?

>And the time Archer nearly let some crew members die because of his pride
Are you talking about the time Archer had to ask the Vulcans for help to get his crew off the comet? He relented pretty quickly.

>And the time he transmitted military secrets to the enemies of humanity's only allies, which could easily have started an interstellar war.
The Vulcans broke a treaty and the whole thing was discovered by accident. Archer did nothing wrong.

>And the time Tucker got raped and it was played for laughs.
It was more like he and the alien played around, but no one thought that someone would get pregnant.

>There's probably more; I think Silent Enemy had some banal B plot that destroyed the tension the A plot was going for
The plot about finding Reed's favorite food didn't kill any tension. The aliens were showing up sporadically, it's not like they were in the middle of fighting or anything.

Honestly, your complaints don't make any sense whatsoever.

>>15582813
That's not a Quark episode

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZlBETlT1yo

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I know that enterprise is not like by many viewers and fans, but I really like the Xindi. They are a vary interesting villains group and the concept is cool too. If only the fish and the insect race are not cgi and we get to see the bird race.
I wonder if there are other who also like them too

>>15587751
Enterprise definitely should get credit for trying something different with the Xindi. It was novel to have a federation as the adversaries and opened up some interesting opportunities for internal politics.

>>15587837
They did do some cool stuff with the Xindi. I wish they had been an actual mini-Federation instead of the silly "all one race" thing, but they're one thing in Enterprise I wouldn't mind seeing used again.

>>15563541
>Sisko, who literally punched him.

The Sisko turns out to be a demigod being a child of a Human and a Prophet. Destined to trap those Pah-Wraiths until his ascension.

My Head Cannon Q would live to mess around with Sisko as he is easily provoked but the Q Continuum put a stop to that as it would interfere with the Prophets plan in keeping the Pah-Wraiths locked forever preventing them from burning the universe.

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I'm watching Voyager and it's surprisingly racist.
Like every interaction with the Native American harkens to his ancestry and the other characters making jabs at it.

It's strange with all the star treks about being progressive and looking past all that. (except aliens. star trek was always racists against other alien species.)

>>15588937
You just need more akochamoya in your life. Go to your nearest tourist shop and get some Genuine Spirit Stones(Tm).

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>>15588981
Stop belittling my culture, white man.

>>15588937
Basically the person they consulted on this claimed to be an expert on Native Americans but actually was a fraud

>>15563165
Ships was mostly crewed by one race cause it was easier for them culturally to get along.
Atleast thats the reason given in one of the books, and its kinda supported whats been shown a few times in the shows.

In DS9 we saw another ships crew that was only composed of vulcans.. that sisko played baseball against.
And I think in TNG there was a benzite or something that had transfered to Picards ship, and wasn't used to how humans ran things and kept doing it how his benzite captain had wanted it.

In the books, Riker's ship, the U.S.S. Titan, was the first ship that had a truely mixed crew of aliens that wasn't mainly humans or another race.

U.S.S. Random Ship Name
Crew: Mainly human, with few individual aliens that want to learn human culture or gets along well with humans.

>>15588922
yeah Q seems to be a bit of a glass jaw when it comes to people with some amount of power beyond normal awareness and physical conflict, like when he flipped out at Guinan's space kung fu stance.

>>15588937
I think the jabs were supposed to be something playful between friends, but since (as >>15589139 said) their expert was nothing of the sort, it comes off as being a bit of a mild minstrel show.

>>15579110
Seems like if you can touch the holograms, it'd be a pretty trivial exercise to just make holographic floor to walk on, while you stay perfectly still, like a treadmill. I suppose the only reason to make it a big room instead of a couple closets is so you can have a couple guys all inside at once, though I kind of wonder how it handles them walking further than the room's longest axis apart while still within line of sight.

>>15590215
>though I kind of wonder how it handles them walking further than the room's longest axis apart while still within line of sight.

At some point they put a wall between them that on either side shows an image of the other guy walking further away. As they close the distance the wall simply vanishes without notice again.

>watch the new discovery trailer
>massive dislike ratio
It looked okay to me. Why it get hate?

>>15591116
That's what I thought, but at that point why have a holodeck at all instead of a series of holoclosets?

Seems like it'd be safer, since you could punch a dude in the face with your very real fist in a holodeck, but if you were in separate rooms, i'd imagine it's limits would kick in to keep your virtual fist from harming their face much.

>>15591161
>limiting harm
see here's why you're not working for Starfleet

the whole point of holodecks and exploding consoles is to burn through some surplus population

>>15591124
It's the curse of long running franchises. Discovery is going to have to fight a very steep uphill battle to capture viewers because too many pre-established Star Trek fans are going to nitpick literally everything about it
>muh klingons don't look like this
>vulcans shouldn't do that
>ships shouldn't be this
etc.

I think it's probably the same reason later series like DS9, Voyager and Enterprise got a lot of shit flung at them. TNG got it to a lesser extent. Hell, I still meet people nowadays who refuse to watch any Trek that isn't TOS. Muh Spock, etc.

>>15591167
>exploding consoles
Exploding conduits you mean. The consoles themselves rarely, if ever, explode as we frequently see replacement crew members using them again immediately after an explosion claims Ensign Expendable. It's the EPS conduits running behind the consoles that explode.

>>15591351
TNG caught a lot of shit when it was new but when the stories started getting good and people realized the characters didn't necessarily replace the old ones they calmed down.

The,"it's different so now it sucks," crowd is just more obvious now with the Internet to gripe too.

>>15591563
I've never understood why Dr. Pulaski showed up in Season 2. She was the most obvious copy-and-paste of a TOS character, but she appeared right when the show was finding its own rhythm.

>>15591617
I'm going to guess that Crusher's actress had to leave for whatever reason and rather than come up with a whole new character, cause what's the point if they're not going to stay around long, they just took the easy way of "Make a TOS character but change one thing about them".

>>15591626
Trying to do the Bones/Spock dynamic with Data was such an awful idea.

>>15591626
Maurice Hurley had a problem with McFadden and was probably sexually harassing her. Hurley left in season 3 and Rick Berman brought her back.

>>15591703
The reason Bones and Spock worked is because Spock didn't take his shit and could troll him back. Beyond that they had a grudging respect for each other and were friends at the end of the day.

Data on the other hand was kind of naive, had no real relationship with Pulaski, and just sort of sat there and took it so it only made Pulaski look like an asshole.

>>15591626
I guess they really weren't expecting McFadden to leave on that short of a notice, or at least they didn't prepare enough to develop Pulaski more than having a foil for Data.

I think she would have been a lot more enjoyable as a character if they didn't keep showing off her old-fashionedness as an oddity. The bit where she had to teach another doctor how to make a split was pretty bad.

>>15591731
I think the best those two ever hit it off was in Peak Performance, where she has a bit of respect for him and goads him into playing finger-waggle with the smug old guy. That wasn't terrible at all.

>>15591731
Yeah, smart as Data is in many ways, at least at that point in TNG, he was like a child. So that made Pulaski seem even more like an asshole on top of all of that even if she only saw him as nothing more than a walking tricorder. I wonder how Measure of a Man would have went if Pulaski was around for it.

>>15591749
She certainly couldn't have taken Riker's place - she doesn't have the brutality needed to carry it off. She probably would have appeared in a Maddox-esque role, afterwards she might have a slip of the tongue and call Data "him" or something.

>>15591745
Season 2 was a writer's strike, wasn't it? Might explain part of why she wasn't really developed well.

>>15591769
I know the writer's strike cut the season short, but I don't think it can have been the whole season - there were too many good episodes that I don't think the team would have felt confident enough to field without a writing team.

>>15591783
The strike mostly cut season 2's writing time and forced them to rush a lot of the early episodes (which is why one of them's a Phase II script). I don't think they were actually without a team for any of them, though that's the only way I can think of to make sense of Okona.

>>15591821
>though that's the only way I can think of to make sense of Okona.
But anon, he's outrageous

>>15591821
Okona, if it's what I think it is, really seemed like some kind of pilot for another show that was remade into a Trek episode to me. Like someone was trying to make a show about NOT-Han Solo and just reused the script, or at least the basic outline, for Trek.

>>15591830
It was like someone dropped their Star Wars OC into the middle of a Star Trek episode and it worked about as well as you'd expect.

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I got sidetracked trying to find a YTMND I vaguely remember. No matter, it's still relevant.

Anybody else find it weird how the few times Data had emotion in the series Tori could suddenly sense him? Those episodes with Lore and the Borg for example.

>>15591821
>>15591830
>>15591839
Okona looks like an attempt to bring back the funnier aspects of TOS, like Mudd, but it failed because was TNG was too serious.

>>15565425
Never. Scott Bakula is on an NCIS series.

He's not going anywhere for a few decades.

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Why are the Andorians so rare in star trek tv&movies?

they are one of the original iconic aliens of the series, plus a founding member of the federation.

the make up isn't even hard, and cgi can make twitching antennas easy these days.

>>15592773
I thought they were originally from TAS?

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>>15592794
TOS

>>15592236
yeah, but they had Spock psychic into machines a few times too I think so, I guess it's consistent at least?

>>15592773
I always get annoyed that we frequently hear about the TOS races in the background but never see them. We even had the Orion Syndicate subplots in DS9 with zero Orions ever showing up. Discovery doesn't look like it's going to alleviate any of that with a ship full of brand new aliens set during a time where it would be more likely to see Federation founder species on a Starfleet ship (unless the rumor about Jasan Isaac's character being Andorian is true).

There are a lot of things I didn't care about in Enterprise but at least they gave the Andorians some development and showed other TOS races like the Tellarites and the Orions.

>>15592773
I don't think they're really that iconic outside of trekkie circles. Hell the Gorn's probably more well know among the general public.

>>15592948
Probably. People who never watched an episode of Star Trek in their lives probably at least know, "that's the one where William Shatner fought Godzilla, right?"

>>15592876
>showed other TOS races like the Tellarites and the Orions.
I enjoyed that, but it's soured out somewhat by their using the same old blood 'n' honor Klingons though.

>>15592876
Maybe some higher up in charge think they're too silly looking for TV today, Enterprise withstanding of course. I wouldn't be surprised if they did try to bring some of them back for TNG they'd try to give them the same kind of make over they gave the Klingons.

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So how about the novels written by The Shat? Are they of Star Trek V quality, or actually good? What kind of wacky shit happens in them?

>>15593184
I dont remember the Tellarites being about honor, and the Orions thing was that the males were the slaves all along.

>>15593276
I've only heard that they're pretty shit and kind of don't make sense. But the only specific example I've heard was the one talking about how V'Ger made the Borg or vice versa, I can't remember exactly.

>>15593276
You think they're just cash grabs or that he was really interested in writing Star Trek stories?

>>15593285
I didn't mean that they were, I mean, I wish they had done something more interesting with the Klingons than making them TNG Klingons, and then adding in a stupid technobabble retcon for why TOS Klingons were different. They had a chance to show us a real evolution of the empire and didn't take it, and I find that disappointing.

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>>15582335
The best episodes.
I love how "human" Dukat is.

I stopped enjoying Garak once i learned he's on drugs 99% of the time.

>>15593507
>I stopped enjoying Garak once i learned he's on drugs 99% of the time.
Excuse me?

>>15593528
Garak had an implant, that released endorphins when in pain. So anything that should have been painful, was actually pleasure to garak.

He hacked it to always be on. So he wouldn't have to feel the pain of being exiled is ds9.

Then it broke and garak's life was pure misery.

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>>15593564
Oh, I forgot all about that. Cheer up, Garak!
>pain for pleasure
It all makes sense now.

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>>15593601
Speaking of Bashir and drugs, i just watched the episode where he and O'Brien go to JemHadar planet to cure their addiction and go full retard. Who wrote that garbage episode? Awfull, made them both look like assholes and ruined a perfectly good relationship because "muh shades of gay morality issues". It's like someone briefly looked at their characters and said "oh this one is a Doctor and this one is a racist".

>>15593647
O'Brien had PTSD and Bashir was being unrealistic. It was very unlikely that Bashir was going to find a cure and if they hadn't escaped then both of them probably would have been killed. Kind of a case of practical vs ideal imo.

>>15593456
>V'Ger made the Borg or vice versa

I always thought that theory made perfect sense.

>>15593507
Isn't the whole thing of that episode that it's broken and he has to go through withdrawal? He'd only have been high for two years, and there's another five seasons after that.

How much Brien is in star trek?

Miles O'Brien

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>>15593936
You cheeky lil cunt you