What would it take for American mecha design to break out

>>15545521
There are plenty of Americans who design cool, anime-looking robots. You just don't really pay attention to them because you yourself give in to the whole 'all American robots have to look like Mechwarrior/Battletech' notion.

>>15545555
>There are plenty of Americans who design cool, anime-looking robots
Such as?

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Pacific Rim was a step in the right direction, in my opinion.

>>15545521
Let artists in major productions have more freedom and not have a design by committee approach.

>>15545593
That implies there's any thought put into it at all aside from shit like Transformers. The problem with mecha in the west is that it's rarely a headlining feature, if ever. Frankly, you just can't sell people outside of Japan on giant robot action alone, and unless this changes, most designs will be slapped together in a few days at most by people thinking of mecha as a mere setting detail instead of a concept to be explored

>>15545642
you could argue Iron man is the biggest draw in marvel and he's heavily mecha focused.

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>>15545570
One step forward, two steps back.

Americans love stories about common grunt soldiers. Which is why 8th MS Team is more popular in the States than Japan.

Japan loves the ace in the special custom mecha. Where the mecha is a giant metal avatar. A figurative god or demon on the battle field.

>>15545521
>What would it take for American mecha design to break out of its current rut?

Our own anime and toy industry?

I mean, there's lots of artwork on the internet but it's not like it gets the same kind of attention as a new Gundam show.

>>15545521
Make mecha not be niche and more creative minds will flock to it.
So it's impossible

>>15545521
Hollywood to drop it's current methods of technical design, which is literally "Draw a load of squiggle and then join it up to make something that looks """""cool"""""".

>>15545658
Adi Granov's designs for Iron Man suits were probably the most important thing to have happened in Western mecha design recently.

>>15545521

I don't really think that there's anything wrong with it.

In the first place, what do you envision as "breaking out of its current rut" as? If your answer is anything near "It should be more like Japanese mecha!!!!111", then don't even bother.

>>15545818
>t. battletech is just as big as gundam

>>15545830
>t. western mecha only contains battletech

I hope that's not what you want to imply.

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>>15545555
__--> This. <--__

Pacific Rim designs all looked amazing.
The guy who did all MW:O designs is friends with and gets inpired by a ton of mecha artists who make stuff like pic related.

Take that figuartive stars and stripes standard you're waving right now and ram it up your biased, bait-producing ass.

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>>15545818
Yeah if this is an "east vs. west" question, I like my American rut. Even though I'm kinda an oldfag and grew up with the old Voltron and Tranzor Z cartoons I really don't care for a lot of Japanese mecha.

Maybe it's the Gundam thing, where it just looks like large Japnese warriors leaping about in Samurai helmets, and every mecha has the metal skirts, chest vents, and garish colors. I like my mecha on the smaller side, Battletech stuff is too tall.

>>15545521

I don't know, but american mecha design would be better if they didn't try to emulate Michael Bay's Transformer designs.

From the recent Transformers and the Power Rangers movies, my beef isn't exactly with Michael Bay's Transformer designs, it's the imitators that are FAR worse.

>>15545521
Making more mecha content
It's hard for American mecha to get out of its rut when there's barely any new American mecha

>>15546342
This mecha looks cool what's it from?

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>>15546354
I think that's Front Mission. But I am not him.

>>15546342
>Maybe it's the Gundam thing, where it just looks like large Japnese warriors leaping about in Samurai helmets, and every mecha has the metal skirts, chest vents, and garish colors. I like my mecha on the smaller side, Battletech stuff is too tall.

So, for one, Gundam is American as all fuck.
It wields a light saber, the robots are called and are modeled after mobile suits from Starship Troopers, only scaled up, the name Gundam is a combination of Gun + freedom, the red, blue, white color scheme is made after the US flag.

And Gundam is but one show. Almost every anime has different designs, complaints about some samurai designs are spouted by people who don't know shit.

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>>15546354
Not sure, sorry. I think it came up in a past mecha thread. Maybe I just feel a bit salty because I'd like to build one of those articulated Gundam plastic models, but don't care for like 95 percent of the stuff. Just give me a kit of something like this or the other pic and I'll stop whining like a lil' babby.

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>>15546363
What about this?
It's the gundam the origin mobile worker

>>15546342
>I like my American rut
>posts a japanese design

>>15546354
>>15546358
Definitely Front Mission.

>>15545738

Yea, like all the common grunt soldier stories in the most popular franchises in American history, like Star Wars, Harry Potter, the Marvel movies etc. Man those stories had so many grunts doing grunty things.

>>15545762

It doesn't even take an entire industry, just one or two really popular books, movies or whatever that other corporate types will want to copy.

>>15545521
Everybody really likes to forget about the transformers movies whem american mecha design comes up.

>>15546374

But the original Transformers were Japanese designs and the movie was animated by Toei.

>>15546363
Get a model kit of the spider tank from Stand Alone Complex or modify a Zoids kit if you want something closer to your pic.

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>>15546368
You know what I mean. Something that doesn't resemble a giant man in a suit; and if it's Japanese in origin that's fine. Some Armored Core mecha is okay but then they start adding on way too much stuff.

>>15546358
You sound a bit angry friend. If you mean me then yeah, I don't know shit. But I do know what I like and unfortunately that isn't most Japanese mecha.

>>15546366
Thanks for the suggestion but that doesn't tickle my pickle either. Maybe it's the football-ish looking helmet head, or that it looks a bit like one of those Warhammer 40K Dreadnoughts.

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>>15546387
>But I do know what I like and unfortunately that isn't most Japanese mecha.

"You must help us, Doctor! We've tried nothing and it didn't work!"

>>15545521

'america' (i.e the west since 'mechs are pretty dead everywhere) doesn't make MECHA. mecha are superpowered ninja deathbots.

the west makes MECH's. slow stompy robots.

learn the fucking difference.

that's central mech is a shadowhawk, that walks at 40 kph ish, and can run at up to 80 ish kph, but it won't jump and do flips and use a beam sword to cut through fifty million scrubmecha. battletech pilots have to pass a piloting test just to avoid falling over if they try and kick another mech, a mech has to have armoured fist/hands in order to get decent melee punches in. and there's like three 'mechs ever made that even have melee weapons.

the shad in particular is a 'classic' IS mech with an nice fat autocannon shoulder mount, a small lrm pack, a small srm pack and some medium lasers.

>>15546396
>Shadowhawk
Weird way of spelling Dougram but okay.

>>15546398
fuckoff harmony gold, you're dead, finally, you jewshits.

>>15546402
Harmony Gold has nothing to do with Dougram.
>implying you're not just someone falseflagging as a butthurt Battletech fan

>>15546405
harmony gold are the fuckwits who bought the rights to the ip years after the fact and battletech was already up and running, then sued the poor bastards into the ground for DARING to use the original artist who actually designed the fucking thing and drew a mech version of his old stuff. I mean, obviously your own artistic shit belongs to some other bastard, obviously!

thanks to those jew cunts keeping legal action up if BT even farted near the old designs their artists made, we had to suffer DECADES of UNSEEN

>>15546413
Harmony Gold got shitty over the Macross designs, not the Dougram ones. They changed the ones from Dougram and Crusher Joe anyway to play it safe.

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>>15546383
Didn't know the spider tank was a model that could be bought, thanks for mentioning it. There's a guy making a nice looking one with that Shapeways thing also.

>>15545738
It could be this too. Sometimes I might be interested in a show featuring mecha but the pilots fall into those unfortunate Japanese stereotypes, like the teenage team player go-getters, or the timid child (Shinji). It can be enough to put me off the whole thing altogether. Mechs should be piloted by MEN, not little kids.

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>merifat /m/

OI, YOU YAN'EE WANKAS YOU JUST DESIGN EM FOR PRETTY LI'L LEGS YOU DO!

bong designs are superior

>>15546432
>Mechs should be piloted by MEN, not little kids.

Have you watched gundam thunderbolt?

>>15546432

Yea, real MEN like Audie Murphy, one of the greatest soldiers of all time. Not some teenage boy!

>>15546432
Just stop, anon.
You're talking about stuff you literally have zero idea about. You've seen some bullshit Zoids dub when you still pissed in the diapers and now act as if that made you a rocket scientist.

I haven't seen any shows.
I don't know anything about any shows.
BUT I DO KNOW THAT THEY ARE ALL WRONG! AND THAT'S WHY I DON't LIKE THEM (despite never seeing a single one).

Also, fact-check. Wars are fought by kids, not men. Anyone over 23 is a hindernance in the field and either gets booted out or gets sent into the office. That's why you can talk to WW2 fighter pilots and tank veterans and such. If they weren't kids back then, they'd all be dead or over 100 by now.

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>>15546387
>Something that doesn't resemble a giant man in a suit

Lurk this board some more, my dude, there are tons of jap mecha that look very mechanical, especially if you like stuff such as that Front Mission art you posted, not everything is Gundam and Macross.

Look at some designs from Votoms or Assault Suit Laynos, also the "Landmates" from Appleseed look very human in some ways but if you want realism they're pretty much the most practical and useful mecha concept ever.


If you just want big scary walking tanks, play the Metal Gear games, there are a few figures/model kits of the titular Metal Gears.

>>15546446

>chromehounds II

>NEVER EVER FOREVER DEAD IP

More cute girls.

>>15546455

What flavors would you like, sir? Hapless, hardass, action, or grease monkey?

If you buy two in one order, we'll throw in a frothy, but insubstantial, and ultimately unneeded romance subplot with a male actor for free!

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>>15546387
Do you like scopedogs?
It's cool if japanese mecha isn't your thing. People like different things.

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>>15546466
Rekijos, please.
We need more historical nuts in western media.

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>>15546441
You're taking a pretty aggressive stance here friend. I never claimed to have some broad experience of it; that's you putting words in my mouth. They're called OPINIONS and unless I'm wrong that's what this thread is looking for. I've seen enough shows to get tired of some of the stereotypical characters. And if the characters are tolerable then they pull this thing where side characters are annoying. Like Tsumugi in Knights of Sidonia or the Tachikomas in Stand Alone Complex. I'd rather see a movie with mech pilots like the guys in that Ghost Recon Alpha movie, not kids from Evangelion.

>Wars are fought by kids, not men
I just want mech pilots that aren't still in school or have teenage drama like the anime I've seen so far. Tekkaman Blade seemed to strike a good balance but I haven't seen that in 20 years.

>>15546446
>>15546469
True, I know there are plenty of mecha that don't fall into the "Gundam trap". I'm the dude that was crying about how most gunpla kits are the Bandai Gundam or Kotobuyiya Frame Arms aesthetic. Yeah, Scopedogs are more in my ballpark.

>>15546372

Platoon, Saving Private Ryan, The Longest Day, Hacksaw Ridge, Glory, Battle Los Angeles, Full Metal Jacket.

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

>>15546527
Don't forget Iron Cross

>>15546511

>the guys in that Ghost Recon Alpha movie

So bland, stubbled operators?

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>>15546537
Dunno, I thought the actors all did a pretty good job and weren't bland. Give me something similar to that with mechs and I'd watch it. Haven't seen Pacific Rim so I don't know how good it was.

>>15545762
This probably nails it. Can't really get out of a rut if there's few to no cartoons, movies, or models/toys to generate American interest in non-Japanese mechs/mecha.

>>15546527

Even adjusting for inflation most of those films didn't make nearly as much as A New Hope, Harry Potter & the Philosopher's Stone and several other big franchise's first films. I'm not being obtuse, I'm pointing out that the idea that Americans or Westerner's love grunt stories about grunts doing grunt things in a gritty, grunty setting is a half truth, because for all that they're popular, heroic and mythic stories are more so as a general rule, both in America and the West as a whole.

>>15546511
>most gunpla kits are the Bandai Gundam or Kotobuyiya Frame Arms aesthetic
>most gunpla kits are the Bandai Gundam
>gunpla kits are the Bandai Gundam
>gunpla kits
I agree with your opinion, anon, but better word choice next time. Gunpla are Gundam-like for a very specific reason

>>15546575

Of course they didn't make as much as them, and that was never the implication to begin with. Films like those exist as proof that in military matters, America leans far more strongly towards the idea of enlisted men getting down in the muck and fighting on the frontline.

>>15546573

I'm not talking about the actors, I'm talking about the characters. Kids are one thing, but do you have any idea how dull it would be if we got a mecha show where 95% of the time all the cast did was give each other sit-reps and status reports?

>>15546605

> in military matters

Except that's deliberately tilting the argument. If there's a heroic character it's not a military story by default. Sure, in a purely military story people prefer grunts, but that's because in a purely military story there are no heroic, mythic characters in the first place. In mythic stories, people prefer the heroes as a general rule even though there are grunts a lot of the time. And mythic films, books, games etc. tend to do better than purely military ones.

>>15546613

Okay?

I'm not disagreeing with you. That one guy said the American film industry loves to focus on common grunts in war films, and I provided some examples of said films.

Naturally there's going to be a difference between mythic and military features with regards to who's portrayed in them.

>>15546621

And I'm disagreeing with the assessment that mecha are unpopular because they look too heroic, or that American/Western ones tend towards a certain aesthetic because Americans/Westerners only want that aesthetic, given that mythic stories tend to be more popular in America and the West than military ones. I'm not saying military films aren't popular, I'm saying mythic ones are more so and saying military designs or stories are popular like it explains the lack of popular mythic designs or stories isn't actually addressing the issue in reality.

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>>15546593
Yeah I figured someone would nitpick that, should've said plamo or something. But it would be nice to build an articulated model of a Battletech Vulture or a Front Mission mech, if some big company like Bandai would make stuff besides Gundam.

>>15546605
I know what you meant, but even when the Japanese characters aren't kids there's a detectable difference in culture norms. They don't act *wrong*, just different. They aren't American and it shows. Like >>15545738 mentioned Japanese favoring the ace in a giant, special mecha. I'd bet that Ghost Recon cast could carry a full movie if they got a decent script; they already showed good characterization in a 25 minute movie. Something like Saving Private Ryan with small mechs or powered suits might work. Michael Bay Transformers movies are profitable but from what I've seen the characters and plot just aren't that good. Cheezy American schlock won't get us out of the mecha rut.

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>>15545521
America to think about combat primarily through martial arts instead of MUH GUNZ TANKS JETS

So basically never.

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>>15546396
Sooo... Westerrrrrrn...

>>15546630
The only reason why robots aren't popular in the US is because of marketing and the fact that it was Japanese companies that came up with the modern concept of giant robots. When there is marketing, they're popular. Look at Transformers, for instance.

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Maybe a fantasy series with giant robot knights would be more appealing then trying to make them work in a tacticool modern military setting?

Except you'd just need to make the fantasy part super grimdark and really edgy and lewd like Game of Thrones

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lol fags

>>15547001
wow, wrong much. i mean, i love western mechs, and jap mecha, but that is an animu warhammer, not battletech's version. there ar very few mechs that have 'optical systems' all mechs have sensors shit to one degree or another, but mechs actually have cockpit armourglass of some kind ( this is why it is easy to get pitlot kills with head shots) very few mechs' have optical systems. like the shadowhawk, which sticks he cockpit inside an armoured head box, with only a video feed display for a face plate ( which MWO doesn't show) or mechs like the cyclops that stuff the head with sensor and comms gear, with the pilot being stuck in a cramped shitty cockpit in the torso right atop the fusion plant. (which MWO also doesn't show, deciding the head is a cockpit and the lens faceplate for the command mech's sensors is actually cockpit glass)

the whammer also will only have a few weapons in the side torso, whereas that img has multiple large bore autocannons, machine guns and dmall callibre ac. no variant of the whammer has 3 + side torso ballistics. the most you can fit is a PAIR per side. there's too much shit in the torso to fit more weapons. with the classic whammer also having a shoulder mounted cell pack LRM launcher on its right, with the left having a HUGE night fighting searchlight (which is also supposed to have laser designator rangefinder shit to make it easy to hit things at long ranges)

with the heaviest weapons the whammer bringing to a fight being in its PPC arms

Stop being so damn utilitarian in mindset when designing them.

>>15548089

Anon you're missing his point. The "japanese" mech was designed by westerners and the "western" design is from an anime.

>>15548098
This meme needs to die. Western trash isn't utilitarian. Utilitarian is clean, simple, and elegant with attachments when needed. Look at any modern war vehicle and an overwhelming majority of them are NOT going to be gangly trashheaps with exposed joints and motors and segmented armor and tons of random moving parts that look cool for a distracted audience but serve no other function.

Western designs are unnecessarily busy and it's clear what the purpose is, to distract. Much in the same way western action movies try to distract using shoddy camera work and composition to draw attention away from the fact the actors can't act and can't fight. It's really repulsive.

>>15546594
Titanfall was a cool idea, shame it got marred in its earliest stages by a PR guy saying the literal worst possible thing he could have ever said.

>>15548110

Titanfall 2 is fucking awesome, though.

>>15548108

My point is that people still design them with function in mind, not aesthetics. Japan literally couldn't care in the slightest how hilariously implausible some of their mechs are, too much of the west still thinks in the "tank with legs" way.

>>15548116
I don't disagree. I'm just saying it fucked up its image a bit very early on.

>>15548108
Actually he's right through your own logic, because there's an inherent contradiction in utilitarian design that makes it not utilitarian.

What are some good western /m/ vidya that I could be emulating or playing on PC? I need a break from japanese shit so I won't immediately burn out on Gundam VS when it releases.

>>15548119
And I'm saying that's not true, unless you mean the meta function of distracting audiences. They're not functional in the least. Even the better ones like Gipsy Danger randomly have uncovered pistons and knees where the armor is left out for no reason even though it shouldn't limit mobility (not that it actually uses a full range of motion in the movie). It's not functional, it's there to draw eyes away from the gestalt and to the little moving parts.

If you look at a tank it has a relatively simple profile, anything that's needed like supplies or handrails are mounted on top of the armor. Fighter jets are even cleaner and are dominated by a few shapes and extra equipment gets mounted to a few hardpoints or go in a bay if necessary.

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>>15546958
You know, it could. Although maybe we can strike a better balance between "grimdark edgy" and "it's a popcorn flick just turn your brain off Transformers" though. Exosquad was popular when it came out and seems to be viewed favorably today. It was written by two Tennessee brothers, Mark and Michael Edens. It explored more mature themes without being too serious. The characters acted like Americans, and weren't Japanese character archetypes.

>>15546630
That's a good point. Although did Americans really develop any mythology that we stuck with? Maybe that book The American Monomyth has some answers. Don't know if Iron Man or Transformers are cutting it for mecha either, but that's maybe due to writing/direction choices. If Battletech style mechs rang true, wouldn't we have seen more than books and RPGs by now? We didn't really have our version of the Super Robot genre to build upon, and now American cartoons/toylines have largely disappeared. If they haven't they usually don't have strong adult American protagonists like J.T. Marsh or Bravestarr.

>>15546396
>mecha are superpowered ninja deathbots
that's wrong you fucking retard

>>15548119
So does Hollywood and American cartoons and comics.

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>>15548127
Have you played Heavy Gear 2? I liked it but can't speak for the first one. Mechwarrior 3 was pretty good too.

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>>15548108
It just sounds like you're describing a lot of popular Japanese mecha here. Painting a Gundam in Fischer-Price colors and giving it high heels, samurai helmet spike-things, and funky wing blades sure distracts me.

>>15548136
I'd say the average American mech looks more plausible and functional than the Japanese counterparts. Pic is an example, and it's not even the really crazy stuff. What use is a head with two eyes and a samurai helmet? And big too, average Gundam height is about 60 feet? Many Battletech mechs are about 30-35 feet tall, with only some like the Atlas being as tall as the average Gundam.

>>15548259
>I'd say the average American mech looks more plausible and functional than the Japanese counterparts. Pic is an example, and it's not even the really crazy stuff. What use is a head with two eyes and a samurai helmet? And big too, average Gundam height is about 60 feet? Many Battletech mechs are about 30-35 feet tall, with only some like the Atlas being as tall as the average Gundam.

>American mech is more plausible!
>brings up Battletech
>a franchise that literally only exists because they took designs straight from Japanese anime and put panel lines on top

Wew

>>15548259
Holy shit you're one dumb motherfucker. What use are eyes? So it can see you fucking moron. The helmet is to protect the head. Jesus, do you have trouble dressing yourself too?

>>15548089
I can't actually tell if you're intentionally missing the point or not.

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>>15546396
You mechwarriorfags know so little about your own franchise that it's funny.

Battletech has
>transformers
>mental link anthropomorphic protomechs
>full humanoid acrobatic anime mechs
>four legged zoids
>the IICs, see pic related

>>15548655
>skirt
>chest vents and cockpit belly
>huge shoulders
>long feet with heels
>even a V-fin

That's a GM

>>15546432
Kids piloting mechs are fine, in my opinion. As long as they treat it like how a real child would respond behind the controls of a killing machine, thrust into traumatizing combat situations and having to make the choice to kill or be killed.

>>15546432
Robots should be piloted by those with unbreakable spirits and burning blood. If they happen to be kids, so be it. Tacticool military cocksuckers are gutless retards without no ambition, which is why their shit planes and tanks get flicked away by the first MOTW every single time.

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>>15548655
And mechs with boobs that looked gender swapped Unicron.

>>15545521 & Anyone loves big heavy stompers
Realizing that in the fight between defense and attack, attack always wins and thick armor is suicidal when your construction is inherently complex.

An object with moving parts is not going to fare better than a tank in any situation.

Acknowledge the role of mecha is not to be walking tanks, find their actual niche, drop the weight fetishization and admit you like fat girls and move on. People should be looking at footage of combat and seeing the slowness of movement, the requirement to conceal and the high risk/reward nature of combat that tends not to work well for extended firefights.

>>15545593 & Anyone who thinks nothing is wrong
Narritive dictates design requirements and design should serve a story. Designers love falling back on tropes and fetishes. Neil was left to go nuts with Elysium and while things about it are great, overall it sucks because it lacks any meaningful overrarching cohesion in design.

Frankly I just want to see designers stop adding rectangular golden ratio panels to robots to try and communicate "yes this is made of metal" because they don't understand engineering principles or industrial design and art direction.

Here, this will blow your mind:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jo53PTCvH_Y

Make the robots smaller. Emphasize mobility and the fact a robot can go places a tank cannot.

Think less "giant person running around" and more "armored person strapped to the front of a headless metal veloceraptor with motorized rollerskates, gun arms and jump jets" that accelerates like a motor-cycle but can corner and steer like an ice-hockey player and squat down like a tank -- that if it gets knocked forwards or backwards doesn't roll because it has some way of catching itself so it doesn't tumble or stagger.

Like fighter jets, these things slowly get larger over time. A 6th generation whatever this is, is going to totally contain its user and be equal parts epic robot mount to powered-armor.

Eventually when some boarderline magical technology comes along that defeats the material and energy constraints involved, they can be even larger, free from inertia, thermal constraints, gravity and bend spacetime -- though they will still have their own constraints, limitations and superiority against one another based on these practical constraints of their magical technology.

>>15548783
Why do these things always look so stiff? Why do they always have joints that can't move?

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>>15548127

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>>15548172

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>>15545555
>look like Battletech
So they look like anime robots?

>>15547001
>Tomahawk from Macross before it was a Warhammer form battletech
Japan makes better tanky slow mechs than the west
Everyone knows that Fasa's non-stolen designs looked like C3PO with gun barels and missile racks growing in random places like tumors.

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>>15545521
all japs mech are giant samura--

>>15547001
Funny thing about this image.

The western robot is a Japanese design. Macross, ca. 1982.

It's a Destroid. Not fast, not fancy. Good as a stationary/defensive weapons platform, so as a 2nd/3rd line or against ships.

Not so great against the giant humanoid Zentradi mecha when at shorter ranges, or when agility is important.

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>>15549212
unlike the japanese, american mech doesnt look like giant s--

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>>15548589
Come on friend, no need to descend into childish name-calling. Are these things that precious to you that you need to lash out so? My opinion is that many Japanese mecha designs (not all) choose form over function. The evidence is in bright colors, flashy wings and backpack accessories, and yes those human-looking samurai helmets. It's obvious they want it to look like a giant fighting man. Some human-ish mecha aren't as bad, like the ones from Knights of Sidonia.

>>15548758
Listen up, Anon. Don't believe in yourself. Believe in me! Believe in the Anon who believes in you!

>>15548811
What you said seems to apply to both American and Japanese mecha. Anything that carries a human pilot likely can't outmaneuver guided missiles, like a TOW or MANPADS. Tanks often don't fare any better regardless of armor, and all of them could probably benefit from an APS like Trophy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trophy_(countermeasure)

If we get right down to it most JP/US mecha (especially the large and tall stuff) don't make any real sense; we just have to ignore reality because we like them. As for weight according to this site http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/RX-78-4_Gundam_Unit_4_%22G04%22 an RX-78-4 Gundam fully loaded weighs 86.5 tons, while this site lists a Mad Cat at 75 tons http://www.mechcorps.com/trainingmanual/battlemech-specifications with plenty of mechs coming in under that weight. Now of course mech heights and weights are all over the place but considering the average Gundam at 60 feet is taller than many Battlemechs, maybe you have to admit you like tall girls and move on.

aaaa

>>15545565
Is this a serious question? Go look at all the original donut steel notgundams on every indie art blog ever. Oh but wait you probably don't count people who aren't famous.

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robot

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transforms

>>15549213
That's the joke.

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>>15548259
What he means is that even if jap mecha are overly humanoid, the armor covering them makes more sense than the surfaces of western mecha, jap designs have large, simple surfaces that look like stuff that can be easily built in the same ways real world vehicle armor is manufactured, western designs are utterly obsessed with "realism" without understanding the first thing about it, hence why the surfaces of western mecha tend to be overdesigned, greebly clusterfucks with horrible armor layouts, because apparently a "realistic" mecha should have it's armor separated into ten thousand overly complicated pieces that don't even cover most of the vulnerable joints, most of the details in them are just there to give the illusion of realism rather than having any thought put into what their actual purpose is, the simplicity of jap mecha in that respect resembles real world vehicles much more.

Also western mecha tend to love the concept of a walking tank, which isn't a realistic view of what mecha might be at all, there's absolutely no practical purpose to making a walking tank, it's just going to be a worse version of a tank on treads, if combat mecha ever are going to be real, they're going to be used very, very differently from tanks, they'd be designed to actually take advantage of having an upright stance and legs, they'd be more like scaled of infantry than a tank, they'd need to have arms.

Honestly even with bright colors and samurai helmets, I think jap mecha with their ability to do human stuff an a larger scale are a much more believable vision of realistic mecha than walking tanks with legs too inflexible to change stance from standing straight up, no arms to manipulate objects or assist their movement, and so bulky and wide that they don't have any mobility advantage over tanks, jap mecha tend to do things current vehicles can't, western mecha tend to be just less practical tanks, they're not the pinnacle of realism, they're the illusion of realism.

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You could start by hiring Alexander Iglesias.

>>15545521
>its current rut?
By far the dumbest /m/ memes
>It's western I must automatically hate it because I'm a Wapanese faggot Reee

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>>15549573
> jap mecha tend to do things current vehicles can't, western mecha tend to be just less practical tanks, they're not the pinnacle of realism, they're the illusion of realism.
Pretty much this. Some Nip mecha like the MADOX and Armored Core 5 mecha are more realistic than what the West tends to churn out.

>>15546432
>thread is about merican or nipponese /m/
>posts french

hon hon hon

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>>15549573
Just to chime in as an anonymous idiot; this is a big deal to me.

Products meant for consumers, safe industrial use, effective military use, etc. tend to look "clean" in a way a lot of mainstream American mecha don't seem to really emulate. It's stupid and so am I, but visually I'd describe this helicopter for instance as close, somehow, some way, to a GM Custom or Jegan.

>>15549202
A good many of their turds polish up real nice, but yeah, there were a lot of irreparably ugly designs.

But lets' be fair. "FASA Corporation" was like two college age dudes in a basement with $350 between them, and the artist was only a professional at that time in the sense that he was, at that moment drawing shit for a living.

It's like people really believe Americans can never draw cool robots because some early tabletop wargaming guy in the 80s wasn't Kow fucking Yokoyama.

>>15548855
Because FASA had no money.

>>15545706
The real problem is the general-populace having shit taste in everything

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>>15549624
The kind of spectrum

3D mockup flawless and shiny but probably lacks essential little details
Brand new still shiny miltech that has all the minor details it need to work
Actually used in the field dirty, worn and modified for practicality
Fully filthy salvaged and rebuilt dieselpunk/grimderp/whatever

>>15546437
That turned to shit the moment they allowed drones in the competition?

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>>15549573
Whether a JP mech's armor is more practical is debatable. Considering a M1 Abrams tank's composite armor is sandwiched metal and ceramic plates, the US mech's often less elaborate design might make it easier to manufacture it's armor; assuming either of them use armor types we're currently aware of. Sounds like you're being selective about which US mech pictures you use for reference, like I was selective about picking a colorful, samurai-man mecha. Anyway, anti-tank missiles could make short work of either one.

Watching Front Mission 4 videos (never played the games) it looks like some of the Wanzers have jet packs that let them skim along the ground, and some can roll along the ground gumby-like instead of walking. That could be adapted to US mechs. What does the average Gundam mech do on the ground? I watched a Mobile Suit episode and plenty of mechs were walking there.

Why does one need scaled infantry with arms, and what human stuff do you need to do? There should be a support crew for that. The arms and human shape are mostly so we have a giant human avatar on screen to root for, it's harder to empathize with a walking tank. Arms add complexity and that would be a judgment call to equip on a combat vehicle.

I think most traditional US mecha tries to give the impression of realism, often in what they CAN'T do; at least with Battletech. There isn't a whole lot more canon US mech stuff to go on besides that, is there? With the effortless way many JP mechs fly through the air and space, while summoning awesome amounts of power when needed, makes them more of a soap-opera illusion of realism.

>>15549610
Some US mechs can be pretty fast and agile, could be an advantage over tanks on the ground. I like that MADOX pic, didn't know about that. Yeah, some Armored Core mecha are good looking, but then you have something like the Noblesse Oblige and it's like damn, what else can you cram onto that thing?

>>15545521
Canadian DP9 inspired by AT VOTOMS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTk1Xw6WlkM

>>15549647
I will give credit where credit is due, Fair enough.

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Stop trying to imitate Michael Bay's Transformers (And failing).

See also: Power Rangers "Megazord". When a guy in a cardboard costume looks more visually pleasing than this, you know you've fucked up.

>>15548116
>Titanfall 2 is fucking awesome, though.
well the single player is, they completely fucked up the balance for the multiplayer when compared to the first game

>>15549762
>They even skate around like ATs

Neat. I like these Not!ATs

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>>15549750
I am not entirely sure I follow you. "Actually used in the field" and ~salvaged and rebuilt" do not equate to more greeble.

>>15549760
I'm not that guy and I'm not addressing your points, but I get the serious impression that you are
A) A realfag (this is not an insult)
and
B) Not actually experienced with mecha much.

This is not the best combination for this discussion or for enjoying mecha. Seriously. I was there once- I started having the most fun when I learned not to give a damn about realism. Handled wrong, it inherently kills mecha no matter where they're from. You need to broaden your horizons and watch more anime- basically, have fun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZULhqmhv3o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsrcwkDRrBk

>>15548172
I really want to like it but the controls are so hard to get used to

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>>15549804
Well you see, I'm mainly enjoying this JP vs. US mecha realism pissing match that's been going on. I'm more of a mech omnivore and will like anything "realistic" if it's JP or US, so I don't really have a dog in the fight here. But I do think US mecha designs don't really need to get out of much of a rut visually, the stagnant media around them is the real rut. And it is fun watching the Gundam weebs get riled up over their fantasy fighting robot-men.

What would you consider being experienced with mecha? I have not watched much Gundam but have seen other mecha anime, that's how I got tired of the stereotypical JP mecha characters. Trust me I have fun watching anime, but I don't think emulating it is the direction American mecha needs to go--if it were to ever go anywhere.

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>>15549760
>Noblesse Oblige
Noblese Oblige is actually part of "4th Gen" Armored Core, so it's not the Armored Core mecha I was referring to. AC has different aesthetics per generation.

The kind of AC mecha I was referring to is like the one in the pic. It's one of the "5th Generation" ACs. The mecha is 5 meters tall, heavily armored, agile, and has versatile weaponry to boot. In essence, it's a humanoid tank that can scale nearly any terrain. There's proper armor to defend the joints, and the 5 meter height means that they aren't huge moving targets. Features called "Hi Boost" and "Glide Boost" give them adequate mobility for evasion and quickly reaching battlegrounds, without being too much like a G-force monstrosity that could break the pilot's bones.

>>15548172
Thanks for posting this game it looks fucking awesome
It's like votoms but it's not votoms

>>15549125
>>15549130
What game is tell? Tell me it's multiplayer and not single player please.

>>15545521
American mecha has literally never been good.

Not once.

Best I'd say is Sym-Bionic Titan/Dexter's Lab mechs but those are technically Russian designs.

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>>15549857
Anon, don't piss for realism, piss for fun!

Watching more Gundam is an important aspect.
Try some UC- 0079, Zeta, ZZ, CCA, production order, etc etc. Have you seen the original Mobile Suit Gundam? It seems like "no", it's basically obligatory viewing, there's a movies and a series, pick whichever. After that production order etc etc. When you've seen maybe eight of these in full you have a little Gundam. Have you tried any full Super Robot shows? How old if so? Have you seen Voltes, Combattler, etc? How 'bout Big O? That's more modern. A Brave? How 'bout VOTOMS? Mellowlink, if the former? Dougram? Takahashi work is nice. How 'bout Dai-Guard? Xabungle? Any Mazingers, Getters, etc? Giant Robo? You may enjoy Patlabor. You may want a rec thread. WeBM threads are also useful.

>>15549857
I'd say somene who is "experienced" with mecha is simply someone who can offer a wide perspective on it. Someone who has consumer a variety of content from all of mechas little subgenres. From the pretty boys in super hero mecha, to the down and dirty grunt mecha.
Of course, none of this shit truly matters. Just watch what catches your interest. If you see an anime like Mellowlink or Patlabor and it catches your eye, cool. If it just doesn't happen, then whatever. Just like what you like.

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>>15549809
I don't think there's too much Western stuff left besides the Mechwarrior games. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. I've played 3 and 4 and think they're worth a shot. Check out this intro for 3:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMlJQ0G3zk4&t=61s

>>15549880
Thanks for the suggestions. I wonder if it's too late to get American mecha out of it's rut. Either it will always remain a niche interest, or nobody's really planted the seed yet by making good mech movies or cartoons. Maybe a live action Exosquad would do it.

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One thing american designs are overusing, imo, is the walking tank concept.
Why can't they have flying robots? Strip off armor(Yes, remove armor), put in some stupidly powerful thrusters and some tough landing legs. Why crawl on the ground when you can carpet bomb your enemies into the stone age?
It doesn't even need to match fighter jets, even hovering around to use attack heli tactics would be pretty good already.

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>>15549760
>I think most traditional US mecha tries to give the impression of realism, often in what they CAN'T do; at least with Battletech.

Battletech is a super robo setting, though.
It's not trying to be realistic, it's making up space magic to create Mad Maxian Dune. A fit comparison is Gunbuster, although that one actually does physics/math and shit unlike Battletech.

>>15550050
because, for them, its not realistic. really, just let them roll around in their realism mud bath

>>15550054
>Battletech is super robot
The mechs are;
>not presented as heroes
>not powered by fantastical power sources
>not driven by fantastical motive sources
>not operated by superhumans other than genetically engineered or mechanically augmented pilots
>not fighting between clearly delineated good and bad sides

It literally checks none of the boxes for super robot. I don't see in any way, shape, or form how you came to this conclusion. They're presented as mass-produced, mundane military hardware in all cases.

>>15550063
Gunbuster also ticks all of those, still a super robo show.

For all intents and purposes, Noriko and her adventures in those basic bots before getting into Gunbuster is no different to Kai Allard and his adventures in Yen-Lo-Wang before getting his own Daishi (IIRC, could be some other machine).
Except Kai was a super-soldier extraordinaire genius who couldn't be beaten and Noriko was simply a girl who stood up and tried to pilot that thing when all other hope was lost.

>>15550115
No it doesnt.
>robot is presented as a hero figure
>powered by a fantastical power source
>motive power not discussed
>It's a god damned combiner which is only ever not a super in Gundam
>absolutely not considered mundane military hardware
Gunbuster is a super. Battlemechs are just huge ATs. They're powerloaders with huge guns driven by nuke reactors and synthetic fiber linear actuators. Gunbuster runs off of a black hole and hot blood.

>>15546318

I really loved those MW:O redesigns.

I haven't played it in many years now, is it ded gaem or still running?

>>15550135
>powered by a fantastical power source

Degeneracy generators are no less far-fetched than fusion reactors. Both are theoretically sound, both have a massive hurdle the science needs to overcome first.

>combining having anything to do with the status of a machine

Have you ever seen a train or heavy-weight construction equipment? They merge machines to achieve herculean tasks all the time.

>>15550135
>absolutely not considered mundane military hardware
Neither are battlemechs. They're prized possessions passed down through aristocratic families. Their production is almost entirely halted to the point any factory might as well be revered.
Buster Machines 1 and 2 are also that kind of military hardware. Expensive, but not special.
They are mass-producing them by the point they're sending them over to fuck the space kaiju up. It's just like Mackie in Battletech.

>>15550191
The Clans don't treat battlemechs the same as I.S and actually improve on their tech 24/7.

From a Clan point of view the Inner Sphere is stuck in a dark age because they can't even produce new mechs, at least that's how it was before thing escalated.

>>15550208
True, but the game is about the IS, not the Clans.
A new, super powerful adversary of the story the heroes can be heroic against. Just like Tyranids or Orks or whoever in 40k, they are there and you can definitely find material for them, but the story is really all about the Imperium of Man and Space Marines. 40k is known as a grimdark setting of technological recession, extreme xenophobia, yadda, yadda,... all things that only apply to the IoM.
Likewise, Battletech is all about the Inner Sphere.

>>15549764
Eh, to be fair that nails "Fucked up alien tech" pretty well, which was the point. I do prefer classic Zooranger/Powerrangers megazord to this, but come on man, this wasn't as bad as people try to give it shit for being, save for the cockpits in fucking weird places.

>>15549754
Drones are find.
It's flippers that are complete cancer. They're no fun to watch, aside from the super-high-powered ones that send the other bot five feet into the air.

>>15549923

also op is equivocated a lot

Japan loves battletech and MW, shit even MW3 got an Easter egg special with a fucking Pre-Catalyst Owens Design

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pW3901cFHRY

Something that most of /m/dweebs can't accept it

also, there it wanst a talk about sunrise getting BTech to do a Movie of sorts?

Late Succession wars and clan invasion would do well, both fits on the zeewank faggotry

>>15545521
I'd love to see bipedal mechs that have tank or construction machinery themes. Sharp hard lines, thick angular limbs and heavy weapons.

>>15546396
>the west makes MECH's
Fuck everyone who uses this word.

>>15551036

>weeb

>>15551088
>reddit spacing

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>>15551088
It's a robot, plain and simple.
But since robot is hard to pronounce to Japanese, every single series gives them a different name.
If you name your robots anything other than robots, you do so solely to act Japanese which means you're a weeb and let me tell you, the Battletech developers were downright extreme weeaboos.

>>15551106

mecha in most places means a "a bit of hair"

even Portuguese/Spanish ones is the same, so the pronounce loses its meaning, Mech its simpler because its a abbreviation of "mechanic", and it makes a cool pronounce

and yeah, i now that jordan was a weeb, but he changed it because of what i said, Since Mecha is most places is already related with Hair

>>15551125
It's called a robot, not mecha.

Ask normal people, scientists, engineers,... as I said, it's not called robot in every series under the sun because it is hard to pronounce to the Japanese.

"Mecha" is a completely different term that means anything mechanical. Megas is a robot, Gurren Lagann is a robot, so is Gypsy Danger just a robot. The genre for these is called "robotto" by the Japanese. This has already bitten 4chan in the ass several times when Japanese came over and dumped historical military schematics in hopes of sharing them with the 'western mecha otakus', as the guy put it.

You're on a weeb site on a weeb board talking about a weeb topic.
The least you should know to opine on the topic is know what the damn genre is called and how to read (since I never once mentioned mecha in my post).

>>15546396
>won't jump and do flips
Bro. BRO. Did you even watch the far superior source material Dougram?

>>15551283
Plus the Shadohawk actually can jump and do flips.

>>15551254
>dumped historical military schematics
I remember this. But let me counter: who here doesn't want historical military schematics? That shit is awesome.

>>15546379
I mean the michael bay ones

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Maybe something like the E-frames from Exosquad are where American mecha could go, rather than huge Gundam or Battlemechs. It could be argued they are more powered suits than proper mechs but maybe that's what's needed to resonate with American audiences. Their windowed fronts don't isolate the pilots, promoting unit cohesion and interaction. Japanese prefer their cockpits to be completely enclosed and isolated, using the mecha as an extension of the character. Somebody on another forum said it better:

"In my mind the two are not really comparable. That's not to say you can't prefer one over the other, but either one embodies an entirely different symbology, and philosophy.

The western mech is, as you say, a machine, a walking tank. It is a tactical piece of military hardware, and is only holds significance based on what it can do on the battlefield.

The eastern mech is more symbolic in its role. Instead of a military weapon the eastern mech embodies the spiritual strength of the pilots. The battles between eastern mechs often represent internal struggles or personal conflict between the two pilots. The mech is literally an extension of the pilots mind. This approach falls closely in line with he eastern concept of the warrior."

>>15550271
This. It's sillier than UC 79. Phone company indeed.

>>15551581
Except there's tons of example of Japanese doing that shit in robot shows you're just pulling shit out of your ass, again, because you keep spouting shit that people who don't watch robot shows say.

>>15551612
Calm yourself there, friend. I've watched plenty of robot shows. Are you telling me the average Japanese mecha anime doesn't have it's pilots completely enclosed and separate from each other? There's likely just different cultural norms at play here, Japanese want different things from their characters and heroes, so they construct these elaborate fantasy worlds where giant human shaped robot avatars are practical. For example, the frequent use of swords and close combat grappling between two mecha.

Did I hit a nerve or something? Is that why you're REEEEEEE-ing?

>>15545521
The front robot looks like dougram.

>>15546372
>like Star Wars, Harry Potter, the Marvel movies etc
>Star Wars
It's explicitly not a war movie about grunts. It's sci-fi space opera adventure. And that says nothing about how most of the franchise's success beyond the movies was built on grunts, like the Dark Horse comics, or The Clone Wars. Also, Han Solo was the American Hero of the original trilogy, a manly cowboy scoundrel.

>Harry Potter
British, and not sci-fi or based on war either. Also targeted towards the kids demographic in the beginning.

>Marvel movies
Marvel goes out of its way to be as grunty as it can with their superheroes. Look at the Iron Man movie; Tony was a flawed man with a flawed "superpower" who was up against something that you could recognize as being representative of a real world problem.

If you look at the most well-received movies, even if they don't make the absolute most amount of money because that would be Avatar and Titanic the stories are almost all about Grunts or ordinary people being heroic, and not just some random super-skilled guy that everyone just happens to worship.

Look at Saving Private Ryan, Full Metal Jacket, Patton, The Godfather, The Dark Knight, Argo, Star Trek, Galaxy Quest, or Lord of the Rings. It's about the ordinary and how they overcome the extraordinary, always.

Give up on realism because the obsession with realism ends up resulting in boring designs that are just as unrealistic as Japanese mechs.

Just go wild and make things that are functional with regards to its own aesthetic design.

Real science will decide what's realistic or not because they'll eventually have the materials and engineering capabilities to build mechs. If people stopped to listen to writers, artists, and the average person we would have never arrived at shit like the F22 or PAK FA because they would have shit on the concepts for being unrealistic.

>>15551819
>Look at Saving Private Ryan, Full Metal Jacket

>Saving Private Ryan
>Yea those fucking krauts were extraordinary nazi super soldiers!
>wait American airforce bombing the shit out of them at the end and the allied forces outnumbering german defenders 10 to 1 and using swarming tactics?
>no no these ordinary people overcame the extraordinary weaker side with fewer supplies and a fewer men to spare

>FMJ
>No no, the little girl is the extraordinary one she's basically the devil okay
>no the squad of full grown american soldiers with vastly superior equipment are not the extraordinary ones, they're quite ordinary you see

This is bullshit. Yeah, they're about the suffering of the grunts. But they're about the extraordinary side. Unless you actually meant the krauts and the little vietcong girl were the ordinary ones overcoming the extraordinary by fighting a battle to the death against Americans that had them outgunned in every way, then I'd agree. The rest, whatever. I don't agree with Galaxy Quest for one since those squid aliens straight up built everything exactly as it was in their TV show, including a fucking time traveling device that works for the person who activates it, and the "warlord" and his goons turned out to be mentally retarded babbies that fell for the equivalent of highschool pranks and couldn't possibly have been smart enough to be an intergalactic military. Hollywood is all about faux extraordinary, in which the protagonists are framed in a way to make them look like underdogs when they're dealing with actual retards, actual braindead retards.

>>15551844
You will never convince me F-22s are real.

>>15551773
The Japanese created the Western concept of mecha. The big slow stompy gun-toting chicken walker? The one with the exposed cockpit and the long gun battles instead of wrestling matches? That started in Japan. Real robot is exactly that and that's a Japanese origin idea, as is 90% of everything mecha that gets written, animated, or illustrated.

The whole east west dichotomy is incredibly silly. What people like you refer to as "western mecha" is little more than an offshoot or even a pastiche of eastern military-realism mecha.

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>>15551938
So what's your point? Even if the Japanese created the concept, in the US it either failed to catch on in a big way or we took it in a direction that represented our idea of heroic characters. Considering Gundam and Evangelion are some of the most popular mecha in Japan, they don't seem to have kept the open cockpit, visible pilot idea.

That's maybe why US mecha is in a rut. The idea of anthropomorphizing giant robots and viewing them as a living extension of the pilot doesn't resonate with Western ideas of heroism. The dichotomy isn't silly, it's a cultural difference worth noting. What works in Japan doesn't seem to work here, except with those Americans who passionately attach themselves to the idea of giant warrior robots, humanizing and empathizing with both the robot and it's pilot.

Maybe that explains some of the hostile responses here. American fans of Japanese mecha attach themselves personally to the robot, so a criticism of the robot is perceived as an insult to the fan.

>>15549213
THE funny thing about that image is that it swapped the western and Japanese robots you retarded fuck. The clusterfuck on the left is from some shitty american moba.

It should also be noted that American media has, for a long time, more often than not portrayed giant robots as threats to be overcome & defeated.

Take for example the old Superman cartoons by Max Fleischer; they're one of the traditional go-to weapons of the mad scientist's arsenal, and onwards to various '50's b-movies, to mutant-hunting Sentinels, Hunter-Killer terminators, giant steampunk spiders, etc. Even Maximilian from the Black Hole, while not exactly a giant robot, still loomed menacingly over everyone else in the cast. For that matter, Robby the robot was misleadingly presented in publicity posters as a threatening figure, even though that wasn't the case. There's arguably a stigma that's built up over decades that's only being slowly worn down in recent years.

>>15552092
>Maybe that explains some of the hostile responses here.
It's because this is a weeb board

>>15545570
Solid super robot design while still following American TACTICOOL philosophy. 8/10 would pilot.

They are both realistic
JP mechs is like a giant exoskeleton suit.
They can run, hold, dodge and use a sword.
US mechs is are tanks with legs
They are slow but they got more ammo They got more guns.

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>depreciates what majority of /m/ likes and probably what get then into /m/ stuff
>LOL WHY SO MAD BRO, ITS GIANT SMAURAI. I LIKE BOTH SO IM NOT SHITPOSTER XD

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>>15552348
Oh, I know. Stepping into the lion's den and all that. But the thread topic IS "breaking American mecha out of it's rut", and not "defend my precious Japanese giant fighting men at all costs". I think that quote posted earlier has quite a bit of truth to it; Japanese and American fans of JP mecha personalize the machine and view it as an extension of themselves, rather than a tool to be used.

Might be similar to that study which showed people who customized their cars with bumper stickers are more susceptible to road rage. JP mecha fans may see the robot as a kind of walking kingdom, an expansion of their personal space. An attack on it violates their territory and causes a defensive response.

You can call a Mad Cat or Dire Wolf clumsy, pigfat garbage and I won't care. But call the average Gundam a pridefest-colored, fantasy ballerina robot and whoa mama, get out your asbestos umbrella!

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Why do Battletech-fags only cherry pick the most over-the-top, colorful gundam designs when so many mobile suits have military aesthetics like pic related?

>>15552516
because we cant cherrypick western design since they look arr the same

>>15546358
How is Gundam american as fuck? Even Jedis are inspired by samurais. Have you seen the concept art for new hope? Fuck, even look at the rx-78's head. It literally incorporates

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>>15552542
>>15546358

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>>15552516
Okay let's cherry pick something that's just as bad as the mecha: the characters.

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>>15552542
Gundam/SW crossover tech references are getting frighteningly cyclical.

If the Disney Fanfiction Trilogy puts funnels on something, I'm walking out of the theater.

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"Oh, let's fly away together in your big metal man! Wait, are you a boy or a girl, I can't tell..."

>>15552549
>>15552561
>Seed
The absolute lowest hanging fruit. The fact that this is your got-to example only proves how little you know.

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>>15552549
Jap mecha characters are pretty gud, pic related.

But is suppose you'd prefer every character be a stubbled gritty operator with as little depth and character development as the average cawadoody protagonist, right?

>>15552559
Come to think of it, last week I think I saw fanart of some jedi or sith master holding a dozen blasters in the air around him, ready to fire

>>15552092
>Maybe that explains some of the hostile responses here.

No, it's because you're a dump pile of shit for brains (or just baiting) and seeing how you evade/ignore all the arguments that BTFO you is ever so slightly entertaining.
The desperation in your eyes as you see the bait is successful but everyone goes back to the surface to spit it out in your face.

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>>15552542
>Even Jedis are inspired by samurais.

And? There are no jedis in Gundam.

>>15552542
>Fuck, even look at the rx-78's head
That's a single design element that we know was forced upon the designer by the toy-maker company.
Look at the original Gundam and it's nothing but the single most westaboo piece of fiction ever created.

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>>15552474
Mad Cat is actually not scientifically possible. Not because of resources, but because its chicken leg design is bonkers and couldn't work at that scale.
Whereas RX-78 has already been built in 1:1 scale. Same thing with Alphonse from Patlabor.

Human shaped designs may not be the most realistic out there but they are far more realistic than whatever shit the west has come up with in the meantime.

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>okay guys the hero of our story used to fight for ISIS as a kid
Can you imagine if an American show tried pulling this? I don't mean that as a knock against the Americans, but can you imagine the arguments that would go on today?

>>15552589
It's nothing new. Americans are very kosher-aware.

Is the US, especially its soldiers, the bad guys?
Not kosher.

Are any nazi Germans not literal child-raping, puppy-killing monsters you shoot with about as much regard as zombies?
Not kosher.

And so on and on.
Albeit, I'm fairly certain there are topics Japanese also dodge all the time.

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>>15552586
All three are kinda retarded... the Mad Cat more than the other two, but I don't see how statues that don't walk are proof that the Gundam and Patlabor locomotive systems are working. Hell, I'm pretty sure that Patlabor is a static prop that is always supported by the stand that has beams behind it.

>>15552593
I remember watching Zipang and I don't think they ever brought up Nanking.

>>15552594
>but I don't see how statues that don't walk are proof that the Gundam and Patlabor locomotive systems are working.

I'm not even talking about locomotion, I'm talking about as little as standing still.
Mad Cat needs a stand to support it or it falls over. Even in tiny (I think the statue was less than 2 meters) scale.

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>>15552594
Digitigrade legs and "chicken legs" are both fundamentally stupid designs for a massive, heavy robot, plantigrade legs are pretty much the only viable option for a huge mecha, plantigrade legs can be used like pillars to support lots of weight, bipedal digitigrade legs are only really good for lightweight stuff like birds.

I recently experienced the value of using legs like pillars myself by trying to get /fit/ and having my leg muscles hurt like hell for a few days after doing lots of squats, standing straight up and walking didn't hurt but holy shit trying to softly sit down in a chair or squat a bit to pick something up with my legs bent and my muscles putting a lot of effort into holding up my body up felt pretty painful.

For 3 meter and larger bipedal mecha, anything but plantigrade legs will probably be too weak to support the weight, but I do think more unguligrade legs might work for some suits of powered armor/landmates, they're better at supporting weight than digitigrade, while retaining some of the advantages, though unlike on animals the legs would need big feet with a large surface area.


Pic unrelated, this realismfag thread just needs more landmates.

>>15552626
why does realismfags afraid of flying

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やる気があるとは思えん

>>15552672
> all games it has been on have all been shit.

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>>15552564
But I HAD to go for the lowest hanging fruit! I'm piloting a Mad Cat and that's all it could reach; it's not agile enough to get the stuff higher up. But that's okay because many of the anime characters are fruits. These Nadesico pilots don't inspire much confidence either.

>>15552571
No, I just prefer American heroes and protagonists over Japanese ones.

>>15552575
Not baiting friend. We're talking about improving US mecha so if you don't want to do that you're free to not respond. I think you're mad because I'm on to something; you've attached yourself too much to the mecha. Like those road ragers, you take an attack on your mecha personally and lash out to defend it (and yourself). See this article:

http://www.nature.com/news/2008/080613/full/news.2008.889.html

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>>15552672
This is the new face of Space Marines.

>>15546880
Just letting you know, the hentai manga that pic comes from is incredibly racist to everybody

>>15552718
unsure how I feel about the gunshields
also unsure how I feel about the lore behind primaris marines

I would've preferred if GW just owned it and said "Look, we want to push new product. Just imagine the new marines and the old marines are the same size"

at least my manlet mk3/4 marines are still good for 30k

>>15552727
I get what you're saying, but from what I understand the Imperium needed something to keep up. Hasn't the latest lore involved another huge-ass chaos rift? I figured they'd need Super Space Marines to have a decent shot at dealing with all the chaos shit.

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>>15552727
GW want more money. So why not replace marines with Supermarines? Better models, better rules. Buy now!

>>15552718
>>15552740
Why do those miniatures have white painted onto the edges of everything?

It looks terrible.

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'Scuse me, 'scuse me, Best Mech comin' through! I SHOOT EVERYTHING

>>15552757
whats with americans and walking tanks? Their shit. That thing would have look cooloer if it had threads instead.

>>15545570
it's a shame that most boringest robot ever was the star

>>15552740
the assault primarines look like garbage though
>>15552746
edge highlighting makes miniatures a lot more readable on tabletop

>>15552718
>generic millenial scifi filter

into the trash it goes

>>15552719
So what you are saying is it's a good manga.

>>15553139
>Gipsy Danger
>Boring

I disagree.

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>Fixing western designs.

Take them and apply Armored Core treatment, like this guys does.

>>15552718
Explain further.

>>15553377
Not him but what is there to explain?

Warhammer 40k is advancing the story.
As a part of that, Ynnari revived the primarch of Ultramarines and seeing just how fucked up stuff is, he started a new Imperial crusade.
Where there is a human crusade, there is need for new Space Marines... and so he created Primaris Space Marines, the new standard gene-seed with better everything down to height and clad them in the latest and strongest technology Imperium has to offer.

>>15552594
>>15552586
Mech designs in general are inherently flawed.
A higher center of gravity with no real benefits.

>>15553460
You need to keep in mind most of them are designed as toys and toys only.
Realism per say was never a thing of importance until some elements got into their heads the need to loudly proclaim "I don't like this and if you like this, you're wrong".

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>>15552581
>Gundam has no Jedi
AND WHAT IN THE FLYING FUCK WITH WARP DRIVES NEWTYPES ARE YOU DIPSHIT?

>>15553531
Newtypes are classic sci-fi telepaths are even implied to create the psychic collective of the Ide in Ideon, ala Childhood's End. The Jedi are ancient intergalactic white people who were actually Japanese Samurai and also Chinese Chi masters who literally pull their moves straight out of old Chinese kungfu and myth novels.

>>15553545
A literate person on /m/? Why are you here? Why submit yourself to this hellhole?

>>15545565
Titanfall

>>15552706

>more child pilots

Erich Hartmann, the single most accomplished fighter pilot to ever walk this earth, became an ace little past the tender age of 20, before manhood in a great many cultures.

Martin Sidener, the youngest American pilot known to have flown in WWII, became an accomplished bomber jockey at the age of 18.

'Child pilots', certainly young ones, are more common than you'd care to admit in times of war.

>>15553651
>Titanfall
>anime-looking robots
Fucking no.

>>15550191
The dark age has been over for a very, very long time. The IS has both old and new designs in production and some of them are 80% as good as their clan equivalent.

So when is /m/ going to stop claiming the western mecha scene is made up solely of battletech?

>>15553659
Adding to this, child soldiers were/are common as fuck in general history, and a cold aspect of reality. Maybe they weren't ace mecha pilots, but when you got guys like Alexander the Great and Lafayette taking command roles in their teenage years, suddenly the concept in fiction doesn't seem so far-fetched.

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>>15552740
>>15552718
Primaris armor looks great, although I'm not a big fan of the helmet's "ears" area. Those silly bolt pistols with shields have some charm, and it's cool that they get two of them. I can even dig those silly portal-style shock absorber boots.

But fucking hell is that new jetpack ugly compared to the old one.

>>15553875
The jetpack is a lot more advanced in design, though.
Someone on /tg/ posted a photo of their backside and it has all sorts of stuff instead of being plain like before.

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>An American hero achieves the best within himself and the best possible to man. In action, he epitomizes the powers of reason and achievement that are man's glory, demonstrating excellence in skill and virtue. Thus we find heroism in an entrepreneur who struggles to bring to a business plan to fruition, and in the dedication of an immigrant who undertakes an arduous journey to seek a better life in a new country. And in the attacks of September 11, we found American heroism in the form of courage.
Courage is the virtue of pursuing one's values consistently in the face of risk. It is not courageous to seek death and destruction: there is no value in death, just as there is no content to a zero. Nor is it courage if a foolhardy person acts in disregard of the risks. Indeed, it is essential to courage that one know the risk one faces, and accept it.
From the evidence that it is available it appears that United Flight 93 crashed far from its target because the civilian passengers onboard the plane threw themselves, unarmed, against the hijackers. Because they spoke to their loved ones on their cell phones, we know some of the names of those who acted, such as Jeremy Glick and Thomas Burnett. It takes a rare commitment to reason and objectivity to face up to the fact that one is in the power of suicidal maniacs, a situation so entirely alien to normal life.

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>By an Objective standard, by the standard of loving life, it is not facing death that makes a hero. Even those who hate the good can face death, and anyone who loves destruction can find it. Heroism is a positive achievement, an excellence of skill in living.

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>The Western hero is the possessor of physical strength, stamina, and an innate sense of the right thing to do; he rejects eloquence, refinement, and superior intelligence as standards of measure. In the early twentieth century, he holds special appeal for audiences because he functions as the antithesis of Eastern, industrialized culture. In an era of assembly-line and factory labor, especially for the working-class citizens who made up a majority of early audiences, the Western hero returned a sense of purpose to labor, and added to labor's appeal through a new setting and a sense of excitement. Jane Tompkins notes that male audience members "enjoy themselves so much not because they are out on a pleasure trip but because they are meeting a challenge...it embodies everything that [they] are trying to get away from: triviality, secondariness, meaningless activity...the hunger Westerns satisfy is a hunger not for adventure but for meaning."

>>15553961
>>15553965
>>15553969
Who the fuck are you quoting?

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>In Anglo-Saxon culture and literature, to be a hero was to be a warrior. A hero had to be strong, intelligent, and courageous. Warriors had to be willing to face any odds, and fight to the death for their glory and people. The Anglo-Saxon hero was able to be all of these and still be humble and kind.

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>>15553972
Google is a useful resource, anon.

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>>15553972
just some ideas i have read on the subject of the hero in western culture perhaps we could use this as a starting point for conversation as the hero is the most important part of the show.

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>The earth-walker of "The Wanderer" helps to further define the Anglo-Saxon warrior and hero. The earth-walker says that "men eager for fame shut sorrowful thought up fast in their breast's coffer" (Norton). This quotation adds another level to the definition of a hero. A hero in Anglo-Saxon culture had to be strong, brave, intelligent, and humble, but he must at all times keep his sorrows and fears to himself. Heroes couldn't complain about their problems, or appear weak. Anglo-Saxon warriors had to be stoic, and they had to appear fearless at all times. This relates to both Beowulf and Buliwyf because both of these heroes show no fear or sorrow. These two heroes keep their word and do not complain, no matter how impossible their tasks seem.

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>>15545521
Chopping off the little head and having a clear cockpit in the chest was a cool move. I think finding a way to make a cool way to do a quad legged guy could be next. Those Boston Dynamics robo dogs could be a good base. The MGS4 gekkos kinda had that vibe, and the managed to chop off the arms too.

Oh and dumping arms with hands with fingers. Build in weapons are cool, but under represented.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/gleanings/2009/june/fighting-robots-are-cool.html

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>>15545521
Addition of close-combat as standard tactic.

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>>15553659
>>15553869
Okay here's the problem; there's child soldiers, and then there's Japanese anime child soldiers and pilots. Because I try to be a fair and objective guy, I watched the first episode of Nadesico. Now I get it's a comedy, but fixing American mecha should NOT include these kinds of characters.

I'll grant the main character wasn't a frustratingly uncertain wuss like Shinji, but like the other Japanese stereotypes represented here, he quickly got annoying. Putting overly emotional, hormone-addled teens in charge of a mecha and a starship is silly--and not because it's a comedy show. We've got the embarassed Akito holding a pair of panties, giant tear-rivers shooting from his eyes, and frequent screaming outbursts.

Then of course, with no training, a frantic Akito manages to push all the right mecha-man buttons and save the day. Enter a blue haired, window pane eyed, teeny bopper girl--oh she's the captain, that makes perfect sense. Now they have a cute little screaming match about who loves who on the bridge of a starship, and...cue credits.

This helps illustrate my point about fixing American mecha; those Nadesico characters exhibited few of the cultural norms you'd expect from American characters, even in a comedy. It's written by Japanese and intended for Japanese. American mecha needs scripts written by Americans. I almost wonder if we might be doing our children a disservice, if we allow them to consume too much Japanese media and idolize Japanese characters and heroes.

>>15546481
In the West if you have an interest in the past you're considered a evil racist bigot.

>>15548744 and >>15548844 speak the truth. The problem is just the audience.

>>15546441
>You're talking about stuff you literally have zero idea about
oh the irony
The average age of a solider who fought during WWII was 26 by the way.

>>15554736
>American mecha needs scripts written by Americans. I almost wonder if we might be doing our children a disservice, if we allow them to consume too much Japanese media and idolize Japanese characters and heroes.
You sound like fun. You should get a job writing scripts for 4kids, they'd probably love your work.

why do we have this thread every week

>>15552626
Actually, chicken legs are the most efficient designs for a robot's legs. You just need to not make the mecha a walking tank that requires normal legs because it's overloaded with stupid shit.

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>>15554843
to distract us from the fact that jap mecha is losing popularity, even among kids.

>>15552739
The galaxy has been ripped in half by a newly-expanded Eye of Terror. It turns out that Failbaddon was an idiot, so his "Red Path" only opened a warp rift pointing 90 degrees away from Terra, rather than towards it. Now from the Eye of Terra to the Tau Empire there is a massive new warp rift, and nobody knows what's going on to the "north" of that rift in Segmenta Ultima and Obscurus.

>>15552757
>CC3
>Somehow looks way better than CC4

>>15553875
The new Jetpack looks like it's bolted to their heads.

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>>15554869
>his "Red Path" only opened a warp rift pointing 90 degrees away from Terra, rather than towards it.

Haha, how does this guy manage to keep his job? Is Chaos that hard up for competent leaders?

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>>15554814
Dude I'm loads of fun. You should stop by sometime, I've got this little shrine devoted to American cartoons. There's framed photos of Bravestarr and He-Man, with G.I. Joe and Exsosquad toys arranged just so. There's candles and everything too. Sometimes I do this naked dance while praying to it. And I made myself a Battletech plushie to cuddle with; sometimes on those lonely nights I'll caress it and...uh, you know.

If your suggestion of a 4kids job is because they used to edit anime to make it more child friendly, well I don't know that goes far enough. It still could allow kids to imprint on Japanese cultural norms if they watch too much of it. There's the catch that comes along with the appeal of such abundant anime. Later on it's their choice but I do think it's best if they get a good dose of American kid's entertainment first. The article below lists some ways Japanime may not be good for American kids.

https://pjmedia.com/lifestyle/2014/10/17/6-reasons-why-people-avoid-anime/

>>15555173
Pretty much all of those apply to American shows as well.

>Filler
Plenty of American cartoons have that. Not every episode of Spider-man was a masterpiece.

>Fanservice
Yeah, maybe American shows weren't as enthusiastic about that as Code Geass, but there's certainly no shortage of lovely ladies in American cartoons.

>wish-fulfillment
Yes, no American kid has ever wished he had superpowers or cool gadgets.

>Weirdness
OK, this is kinda true, and Japanese humor doesn't always translate that well, but judging by the success of shows like DBZ and Pokemon it's not that big of a deal.

>fanservice to the extreme

OK, yeah, this can be off-putting, but the most popular animes in the west tend to be generic shonen (DBZ, One Piece, etc.) rather than moe, so it seems to me he's not making much of a general point.

>otaku

Annoying, sure, but Western properties have the same problem, just under a different name. Look at the mockery Comic Book Guy from the Simpsons gets, for instance. So I'm not really convinced by that article. Then again, I probably wrote too much in response to a pjmedia piece. Argh...I really ought to go to bed.

>>15554869
>have no arms
>be unable to use calculators
>fuck up your mental math
>miss your target by 30,000 light years

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>Power armor with minimal actual armor
>Unironically using a katana
>anti-orbital MANPAD
muh gritty realism

>>15551288

it has jumpjets that can give it little hops.

as for flips, fuckoff. it cannot.

>>15551036
MECH =/=mecha, fucko, they're two different things.

next you'll say helicopter = jet plane

>>15555364
>>Mech=/=Mecha

Are you fucking retarded?

Please, enlighten us.

>>15553204
C H E R N O
H
E
R
N
O

>>15554736

God forbid a work of fiction created for consumption by another culture doesn't reflect your own cultural norms or perception of them.

Additionally I'm rather thankful that American programming as far as cartoons go is more diverse and less kiddy than you'd care to admit, lest you submerge it with a roiling tide of whisper-quiet, stubbled operators.

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>>15555276
>Drawing a sword from the back

This triggers me

>>15545565

Syd fucking Mead

>>15553204
Compared to the other mecha, it really was. It was the most non-descript, and lacked any obvious flare.

>>15555523
You know the final versions for the show were cleaned up by someone else right? His original sketches looked like stiff as stone statutes. He has no sense of the figure drawing gestures that good mecha artists have and Mead's designs just can't stand on their own, they need to be redesigned in subtle but crucial ways.

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>>15555489
The point is that too much of something can be bad, especially with a culture like Japan that puts out so much brightly colored, appetizing-looking stuff. Desirable social norms and appropriate role models SHOULD ideally come from one's country of origin. You write like an aficionado of Japanese media and that's fine. But unlike American cartoons, Japanese kid's media has it's own baggage and can act as a gateway leading a child to things like loli, moe, and yaoi. Think of how many Japanese male main characters are effeminate and androgynous.

Nobody said anything about stubbled operators, just good American role models for children. More like Duke and Bravestarr, and less like Goku and Naruto.

>>15555206
There's other examples. That's NOT to say I think this stuff should ever be banned, just that Japan is more tolerant of such things and thus it could be easier for objectionable themes to mix in with what the American child consumes.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/18/world/asia/japan-manga-anime-pornography/

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>>15553003
>whats with americans and walking tanks? Their shit. That thing would have look cooloer if it had threads instead.

What's that my spelling impaired friend? I can't hear you over the roar of my CHIN-MOUNTED ARTILLERY BATTERY and DUAL MISSILE LAUNCHERS. Stand back now, I TAKE LARGE STEPS.

Make them watch VOTOMS again and do it fucking right this time
Titanfall is almost getting there but they still have shit designs and no roller skates

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>>15555984
>those chin guns
>>15552757
>those cannons

Why do people like these?

They look so cartoony and unintimidating, guns look much better when they seem vaguely functional, with proper bore diameters, clear ammo supplies, and areas that look like they contain mechanisms of some sort.

Just sticking an oversized barrel with almost no gun behind it on something looks retarded.

>>15556085
>55.6mm GU-alpha
gundarium alpha armor piercing rounds? man that shit sounds dope

>>15556116
>alpha
That's a sigma.

>>15554736
A) Akito is not a teenager.
B) Akito is a parody of Shinji.

Congratulations on being dumb enough not to be able to recognize these simple facts in a show for pre-teen boys.

>>15554843
Because the people here are not /b/-steeled population like, say, /mlp/.
This thread should have been spammed with horse dicks, robo porn, guro and what-not the moment it appeared.
Except that didn't happen because /m/ is a baiter's paradise.