Why is the West more keen towards Power Armor rather than Mecha

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Because space marines.

>>15533834
>>15533848
Because Heinlein.

>>15533834
Wouldn't Sentai suits technically be power armor?

So are we talking PA from the old games vs. the mechanics/appearance in 4, or PA vs. Liberty Prime? Liberty Prime does not fit the setting at all and someone at Bethesda thought it would be wacky to have a single anti-commie giant robo, and not have it make the BoS the laughing stock of the West coast for sinking resources into finishing it.

>>15533834

Because Giant Mechs are physcially impossible while Power Armor is theoretcially feasible.

Japan knows it's fantasy is bullshit and will never ever happen and is just pure escapism, which is why they have such ridiculous bullshit and it always starts teenagers even if it's aimed towards people already several years past that age.

West likes to have "But it could maybe happen someday" and realism in their fiction, to give people hope that maybe one day life might actually be interesting. It's why most fiction starts adults in their 20s-40s the age most of the audience is, to make them think that it's almost possible they could really be doing that.

>>15533970
Sentai suits are like capeshit suits that grants powers. Kamen Rider is more to power armour as it's in fact armour, and we even have G3 who wears a power armour

>>15534539
This. Also the precursor to powered armor are being developed right now. There's the raytheon exoskeleton, the HAL exoskeleton and the fact that powered armor if made have the most adaptable uses beside military uses. For example they can be used on people who are paraplegic (thin exoskeleton underneath clothing allowing the user to walk) or for more industrial uses. Imagine having to wear powered armor to unload a long truck trailer full of crap without even feeling tired.

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No Gundam will ever be as cool as MD Geist's armor

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>>15534539
>West likes to have "But it could maybe happen someday" and realism in their fiction
>>15533848

Also, non-Anglo countries actually have a massive mecha tradition.
France, Italy, Spain, Portugal, all Spanish colonies in America, Arabic world,...

For fuck's sake, just look at video games. There is so much mecha in them you could practically make more series out of them than how many have been made since the mecha genre started.
And I stand behind that even if you ommit all Asian releases.

>>15533834

Assuming this statement is true, I would guess that it's because power armor allows an individual to act superhuman and heroic, rather than attributing the power to a machine. It also lets the wearer interact with other humans in a human environment, rather than keeping the focus in a combat or other narrowly specialized environment.

Giant robots are a niche interest, but everyone can fantasize about being an Ironman-like character. Power armor has wider appeal, and big budget entertainment in the West is a slave to the lowest common denominator.

>>15533834
>Why is the West more keen towards Power Armor rather than Mecha like in the East?
Because robots have generally been portrayed as enemies in western media. Power armor fills in the desire for a techno-hero that's still human.

>>15534018
So in the retro future setting full of anti-communist propaganda, robots, mad science experiments, aliens, and military spending run amuck you take issue with the giant patriot robot?

>>15533834
> Mecha like in the East
I suppose you mean "mecha" as in "giant robot." Just FYI: mecha as a genre encompasses more than just giant robots.

Because Western sci-fi is more sensible than Japanese anime. A powersuit is more realistically practical than some fanciful giant robot.

>>15533834
For whatever reason there's a lot of people in the west who are obsessed with this notion that because mechs aren't practical they're stupid so I guess the focus on power armor is partially a result of that.

>>15534585
Shame there's hardly any good quality official art of the suit.

Power armor and exoskeletons are more "realistic."

Westerners have this obsession with realism and practicality that makes it more difficult for them to suspend their disbelief when it comes to more fantastical things. That's why mecha as a whole is often scoffed at and dismissed as Transformers or Power Rangers shit.

>>15534641
>>15534643
>>15534658
>Because Western sci-fi is more sensible than Japanese anime. A powersuit is more realistically practical than some fanciful giant robot.

Lets go through the most popular sci-fi properties, shall we?

Star Wars - has giant robots.
Transformers - has giant robots.
Starship Troopers - has giant robots.
Avatar - Implying popular has giant robots.
Terminator - has giant robots.

As far as the top of the food chain goes, only Alien and Star Trek don't have any, and Alien is debatable with the power loader.


You guys simply set up a baseless argument to pat yourselves on the back over.

>>15534660
Star Wars has APCs with legs. Not Daltanious.
Bayformers has marketing and Michael Bay. Not geewun QUALITY.
Starship Troopers only had infantry and ships. Sadly, only one movie was ever made.
Avatar has powerloaders. 2.5m scale is not a giant robot.
Terminator only has giant robots if you extend that definition to automated VTOLs.

>>15534660
>Star Wars - has giant robots.
Not in the movies.

>Transformers - has giant robots.
Originally a Japanese toy line.

>Starship Troopers - has giant robots.
Nope. Not even in the book.

>Avatar - Implying popular has giant robots.
Only for bit parts. They weren't really a fundamental element to the story like they are in Japanese works.

>Terminator - has giant robots.
A giant tank is not the same as a giant humanoid robot.

>>15533834
>>15533864
I'm no expert, but Power Armor was influenced a lot by Heinlein, while Real Robot anime was a marriage of Heinlein and Super Robot anime.

The stuff that influenced the Real Robot genre never made a huge splash in America, so we never made our own Gundam.

west's suspension of disbelief goes full retard a lot of the time

>>15534539

> even if it's aimed towards people already several years past that age (that age being teenagers)

Gundam is mostly aimed at kids around 10 to 14 from what I gather, not young adults in their early 20s.

> West likes to have...realism in their fiction

Like Harry Potter, superhero comics, Transformers, Twilight and so on?

> It's why most fiction stars adults in their 20-40s, the age most of the audience is

In the case of comics, they mostly starred adults but were aimed at kids or teens until maybe the 90s at the earliest.

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>All these people saying Westerners don't like giant robots because they aren't "realistic"

Western audiences don't think about what's realistic. You only find this argument on the internet.

The reason the west doesn't seem to like giant robots is because we haven't been presented with any giant robot property that captured our attention, with mostly only a few short-lived exceptions. Ask a person on the street if they dig giant robots - if they give a concrete answer (there's a good chance they wont, because they probably don't think about giant robots enough to have an opinion on them) it will probably be "No," and if you ask them what giant robots they know, they'll probably name Power Rangers, Transformers, and maybe Mechwarrior.

Most people will know things like Star Wars, but most people also don't associate things like the AT-AT with the phrase "giant robot." There are a lot of reasons for this, but the big one is that when we say "giant robot" we all think of something vaguely humanoid. In the west we have words like "walker" and "mech"/"battlemech"/"mechwarrior" (because plenty of people use the word incorrectly) to describe these machines, and most of them aren't humanoid (some mechs are, but most people think Mad Cat/Timberwolf rather than Atlas).

There just hasn't been a lot of exposure in the west. Gundam has tried to make inroads before, but it's always been through shit series like Wing. Because nothing's ever taken root, there aren't many western creators who have been influenced enough to make giant robot properties. Pacific Rim could have been something, but let's face it - at best it was forgettable, at worst it was actually just shit. The main mech was boring, the interesting side characters and their mechs were relegated to background roles and quick deaths, and the narrative was generic Americano underdog shit.

tl;dr - The west doesn't like giant robots because it's never really gotten a chance to try them.

>>15535150
And just to add on a little more detail:

>Power Rangers
Adaptation of a Japanese property.
>Transformers
Has its origins in Japanese toys.
>Mechwarrior
A licensed product base on Battletech, which used a lot of art lifted (controversially) from a number of Japanese properties.

And you might also mention Robotech, which again is an adaptation, and is unique in that its existence prevents Macross itself from ever being exported (compare to Power Rangers and Sentai, which have a more direct relationship).

So by and large, the things that stick with westerners are in some way Japanese imports. none of it's home-grown; none of it's taken root and inspired western imagination, which would be the real litmus test.

Chicken walkers like the AT-ST, Mad Cat/Timberwolf, and even ED-209 are the norm. When it's more humanoid machines, they're always compact and never the focus, like the little mechs from Avatar (I don't know what they're called) and the Prawn mech from District 9 (not really HUMANoid, but you see the correlation). The biggest exception off the top of my head is probably the Aliens power loader - which could be argued is more of an exoskeleton than a mech, which is another degree of separation in the mind of the audience.

It'a also worth mentioning Big O (another import), Symbionic Titan, and Megas XLR - but again, these were all short-lived and not necessarily as popular as we'd like to remember them. But most importantly, they had no lasting impact on the culture at large. They still have devoted cult followings, but they've been all but forgotten by audiences at large. Even Big O is rarely mentioned here.

The irony, as someone else pointed out, is that Heinlein was likely an influence for the Real Robot genre - the Guncannon design is a descendant of the powered armor design from the Starship Troopers OVA, and the military setting was likely inspired from the novel/OVA as well.

>>15533834
Because Power Armour draws upon the image of Knights in Plate Armour?

>>15535194
>A licensed product base on Battletech, which used a lot of art lifted (controversially) from a number of Japanese properties.

It's not like they didn't pay to use that art.

it's that they paid a bunch of Egyptian scammers who never really had those rights to begin with.

>>15535150
This is horseshit though. Gundam and many other mecha anime are out there and ready to be viewed. They have every chance to try them they just never do because they are biased.

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>>15534670
> Sadly, only one movie was ever made.
they made 3 of them and an animated film

>>15535673
Look at where most of those shows are available and maybe re-evaluate that statement. There's, what, three that are/have been on Netflix, for example? Sidonia, A/Z, and Kuromukuro?

Visibility is the issue. Lots of things are "out there" and never get noticed because people have no idea they exist. If there's any bias that prevents people from choosing to watch mecha anime, it's bias against anime in general and not giant robots specifically.

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>>15535701

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>>15533834

Halo is /m/ as fuck.

Bungie era had some of the most stylish western power armor I've ever seen.

>>15533834

Personally I love power armor because it augments the individual. The wearer performs all his movements with his own body. He is a hardened man whose strength of character and physical condition are directly tested. Mecha on the other hand have an arrogant nerd with a bowl haircut striking keys feverishly. He is detached and his physical attributes never come into play. Not at all appealing.

>>15536322
Pre-halo 4 Spartan armor looked good but it always bothered me how it had no mechanical joints or obvious synthetic muscle even though most of the strength is supposed to come from the armor, not the Spartan, it just looks like a rubber suit with armor pieces attached, Spartans going around flipping tanks and shit would probably crush their own flesh and bones without full exoskeleton support.

>>15534610
Not any more than a giant robot.

>>15537381
>I just really love powered armor because the pilots are all big, sweaty, muscular men
>Giant robots are not appealing

Leave /m/, just go to a gay bar and get your boypussy raped

>>15537426
Fuck you.

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>>15534585
especially the helmets
I need to get the artbooks

>>15537426

I want to be like them, not with them.

>>15537400

In the books there's a layer of gel-crystal for that purpose. The H2A render of Chief's suit has some neat ribbing on the shoulders to annunciate that layer.

>>15535194
>the Guncannon design is a descendant of the powered armor design from the Starship Troopers OVA

Given that the OVA was made in the late 80s and that the Guncannon was in the original Gundam, no. If you were trying to say that the Guncannon was based on the description of the suits in the novel, then that might fit better chronologically.

>>15537400
Spartan2s are genetically engineered cyborgs. that also happen to be in power armor.

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>>15538184
My mistake, it was illustrations done in 1975 related to the novel. Naoyuki Katoh and Kazutaka Miyatake collaborated on pic related. Miyatake's early Guncannon design was heavily based on it, and eventually evolved into the Guncannon we know. Katoh did cover illustrations for the 1979 Japanese paperback release of Starship Troopers using the same design, and Miyatake revised the design for the OVA in '88.

>>15538235
Pre-mjolnir armor spartans are not cyborgs. They are handpicked as children for their 10/10 genetics, trained from childhood, and then were dosed with steroids and extreme genetic and biological enhancement surgeries that are not mentioned to include any cybernetic components. They are basically no more cyborg than captain america.

The mjolnir armor is a compact power armor powered by a nuclear battery and is so strong that normal humans trying to use it literally shatter bones and tear muscles from its enhanced movements.

>>15538272
doesn't the covenant call the Master Chief a cyborg through out the games and even do so a derogatory term?

>>15534629
I actually take issue with the aliens being promoted from easter egg to canon, too. I also take issue with Bethesda's obsession with the bomb and culture surrounding it, including the communist propaganda, since there's no reason anyone would give a shit past "oh yeah there's a radioactive hole that way, be careful" since it's been 200 years, and was actually commented on within OWB where the lone guy ranting about commies is a nutcase and no one else in the wasteland has any idea what it is.

But that's an argument to waste time in /fog/ with.

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>>15538598
*bzzzt
>sounds like something a communist would say
*bzzztt

>>15538585
The first game had grunts occasionally yell out "BAD CYBORG!" when their game AI set them into a panic. I don't think they namedrop cyborg in the subsequent games as they just call him "demon" instead.

>>15538667
and Cortana in the first game said she was in John's head.

>>15535150

its bullshit, i love both gundam and btech, in fact id like to see a UC game based on Btech rules

>>15538676
The mjolnir armor is moved through a mental link in the helmet. Cortana's chip is in the helmet and she can link to master chief's mind in a limited capacity.

>>15535150
If you want westerners to give a shit about giant robots you center your fiction around the grunts. The west loves their /m/ with a good bit of /k/. Look why 08 MS team is so popular here. Hell this board, which is mostly westerners, has multiple grunt threads. We love the rank and file boots on the ground point of view. Most mecha out of Japan focuses on the lone ace with the lone special giant robot. The t-51b in the OP and the iconic space marine power armor from 40k belong to a nameless grunt. There is only one rx-79 and only one pilot of it. Have a team of digi camo GM's saying "oscar mike" and the west would love it.

>>15538598
The lines are supposed to be from 200 years ago.

>>15533834
power armor is mecha

Personally, I'd rather not go with giant robots. Mini mecha like the ones from VOTOMS are the way to go.

Another problem is the type of audience. There has to be a need for mecha war stories that adults who go to HBO can watch.

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>>15534539
titanfall, look it up

reeeeeee

>>15535673
Anon, you are making a major mistake in assuming normal people will every try to look into niche fiction.

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>>15534672
>what are AT-ATs

>>15534539
Every time someone says something is impossible the only correct answer is "technology hasn't advanced enough to make it possible."

Realism is the cancer that kills innovation because realism is just taking what you have today and reshaping it to look "futuristic" without even trying to actually think what might happen.

By the logic of "muh realism" fags the current generations of fighter jets defy the laws of physics and are impossible science fiction because men can't fly.

>>15540210
Very distinct difference between mechs and walkers, and the AT-AT is most definitely a walker.

>>15540304
Whats the difference?

Because it can't be quadrupedalism. Things like Zoids are still mechs.

>>15540210
People trying to compare quadruped transport to a giant humanoid robot need to leave this board.

>>15540324
>Things like Zoids are still mechs.
Zoids look like animals. Their designs are far more stylized than a utilitarian AT-AT.

>>15540339
>Zoids look like animals. Their designs are far more stylized than a utilitarian AT-AT.
So?

>>15540339
That doesn't explain the difference.

Mechs don't have to be humanoid. Or even based on a living thing. Timber Wolf doesn't look like a living thing, still a mech. Hell a lot of Real Robots don't look like living things.

So whats the definition of mech that excludes AT-ATs but not other mechs?

>>15534641
>>15534643
>>15534658

No, it's because the classic sci-fi the west has does not have giant robots owing to film being the main medium of entertainment since the 50s, and giant robots are expensive or unconvincing on film. With no giant mecha tradition in the classic works of entertainment in the west, the closest /m/ thing we have is military fiction with power armour.

To say that the west is more realism oriented than Japan is true only if we look at western entertainment versus animu, which, we being fucking weebs, is obviously what we see.

I won't deny that the realism angle holds water, but to say it's an obsession that drives the lack of mecha? Come on, the top grossing western films are superhero, science fantasy and fantasy films.

Not exactly "much realism", huh?

>>15540343
So that's the answer to the question in the OP: Western sci-fi utilize mecha with practicality in mind and are traditionally more grounded with reality. Japanese approach mecha with very fanciful designs with special powers and are often integral to the plot.

In the AT-AT's case, a Western mech, its design is militaristic and purposeful. It had four legs to navigate terrain where the other in-universe technology would either be unsuitable or impractical on wherever they might find the Hoth base and it was armored to defend against high-powered blaster fire. It was also used in only one scene in the original trilogy and a similar design wouldn't appear on screen again for another 36 years (again only used in a single scene).

Had the AT-AT been a Japanese design, it would probably look and move like some large animal we see here on Earth. Instead of slowly lumbering towards the Rebel base, it would gallop or even jump. We'd also expect it to cock its head back and make animal noises for some reason. The movie itself would also make heavy use of mecha with AT-AT being part of a larger contingent of mecha driving the story.

The fact that we didn't get that version of Star Wars is exactly what the difference is between Japanese and Western mecha.

>>15540382
What, anon? That has nothing to do with the subdebate here

One anon said:
>Very distinct difference between mechs and walkers, and the AT-AT is most definitely a walker.

The Zoids thing was about why a Zoid is a mech but an AT-AT isn't. Mechs don't need to look like animals, so that didn't explain why.

>>15533834
Because the Western perspective is that power armor is more realistic than mecha. It's a dumb conception, but that's just how the West thinks

>>15540477
>It's a dumb conception
>One is being developed rn, one would sink just due to ground pressure

M80, I love mecha in all its forms, but don't delude yourself.

>>15540484
> don't delude yourself.
Except I think they're both stupid and unrealistic. No point in a power armor or mecha when drones, battleships and other forms of conventional warfare do just fine.

>>15540495
Drones can be jammed, don't work underground or in certain environments, they have latency. You also can't hold territory with aircraft and UGVs are mediocre. Infantry will be relevant for a long time. And thats all power armor is - uparmored infantry. They'll do the same jobs in the same locations. Power armor IS conventional warfare.

Military exoskeletons, PA's protoform, have already undergone testing in combat environments.

Oh and battleships haven't been relevant for decades.

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>>15533834
I think it's because Western mecha are used like Tank, slow and armoured with a big gun, used to support the troops.

>>15540510
Nah
https://www.quora.com/How-practical-would-a-power-armor-like-in-the-Fallout-universe-be-used-in-real-life-wars
A big, slow nigga costing as much of a tank per suit is just impractical. Doesn't make any sense in either an engineering perspective or a strategic perspective.

>>15540521
That article even admits that the exoskeletons being developed would be useful and that cartoony Fallout-style powered armor (which nobody is trying to build) is unrealistic.

Yeah, infantry that cost as much as a tank are stupid. That's why nobody is trying to build walking fucking tanks, you illiterate shit.

>>15540537
>you illiterate shit.
>That article
It's not even an article, you dumb motherfucker

>>15540542
Boo fucking hoo.

>>15540548
QQ more, feeb

>>15540550
(You)

>>15540552
>just got BTFO'd and can't do shit
QQ more pls

>>15540554
(You )

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>>15540555
>Proceeds to QQ more for my delight

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>>15533834
>the 2nd pinacle of how power armor should be when exo skeleton frames becomes a thing along with ceramite+Graphene

you got that damn right anon

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>>15533864
Most of the predictions from the period that inspired SST came true too.

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>>15544821
>futuristic combat soldier from the year 1966 with a fully-automatic aluminum assault rifle and transistorized individual radios

>>15541524
I like Falout 4's visual interpretation on the power armor and how it wraps around the user.
Bethesda just needed to downsize the helmets so their goggles could align with the user's eyes.