What is the deal with Char

He's the target.

>blame this on the misfortune of your birth
He didn't like Kamen Rider OOO.

>i've never betrayed anyone in my life
That was actually the real Char Aznable who was posing as Casval Deikun who was posing as Char Aznable.

>souls weighed down by gravity
He thought people were too fat and needed to lose weight.

>Lalah could have been a mother to me
He was Lalah's son who traveled back in time due to the psycommu overflow in 0093 and then created a time paradox when she died defending him in the Elmeth.

Jesus Christ, did you even WATCH the show?

>>15501407
he means that Char is kind of an asshole

>>15501407
Char's a dangerously insane psychopath, this becomes a lot more obvious when you read The Origin

>>15501407
>blame this on the misfortune of your birth
Garma is not a bad person by nature but he has been raised to be spoiled, complacent and self-indulgent.
>I've never betrayed anyone in my life
Char feels no obligation to subscribe to causes that conflict with his personal convictions.
>souls weighed down by gravity
The constant wars that kill millions and destroy people's natural habitat are a result of both Spacenoids' and Earthnoids' unwillingness to give up their desire for mastery over Earth.
>Lalah could have been a mother to me
The relationship between a man and a woman, like the relationship between a mother and a child, is one based on love and mutual trust before all.

Someone screencap this so I don't have to explain it in every thread.

>>15501407
Char died at Baoa Qu, Quattro is Job John

>>15502850
>Garma is not a bad person by nature but he has been raised to be spoiled, complacent and self-indulgent.
That's not it, he's just saying that he has nothing against Garma himself but he still has to go because he's a Zabi.

>>15503062
How did you deduce that?

>>15501407
>i've never betrayed anyone in my life
Threads will be made of this mistranslation for time immemorial

>>15503064
Because it makes the most sense. Char isn't killing Garma because he turned out spoiled and complacent, he's killing him because he was born into the Zabi family.

>>15503116
>Char isn't killing Garma because he turned out spoiled and complacent
I think there is enough evidence within the show to deduce the opposite of that.
>he's killing him because he was born into the Zabi family.
Yeah, but why? What is the logic?
The reason to kill someone because you have a grudge against a family member of theirs is either:
a)because you think in one way or another that they are also bad - which is in line with my reasoning
b)because of some sort of concept of honor that I honestly don't understand and Char probably wouldn't care about considering that he seems to look down on such things.

Or am I missing something? What is the reasoning behind killing someone just because they happen to be born in a certain family.

>>15503150
>Or am I missing something? What is the reasoning behind killing someone just because they happen to be born in a certain family.
Revenge? It's almost like the son of Zeon Deikun had some sort of vendetta against them.

>>15503190
I don't get it. What the fuck is wrong with you?
If he thought that Degwin was at fault why would he hate his children. There needs to be a reason for that. I already listed the only reasons I could think of. If you have any others please share them.

>>15503197
Maybe because he thought the whole family was at fault and not just one part of it, or maybe he was an angry and spiteful manchild and didn't care which one was responsible as long as they all suffered for his loss?

It's almost like people have emotions, and they act irrationally because of them.

>>15503207
>because he thought the whole family was at fault and not just one part of it
Which is what I listed as "a)because he thinks they are also bad".
The reason for this would most often be hatred by association and this is what you are currently suggesting. Hating by association means projecting the intentions of one person on all people associated with him - "You are related that person that I think is bad so you must also be bad." People by nature are prone to generalizations like these in their reasoning which gives rise to prejudiced beliefs.
Except Char admitted that he didn't consider Garma to have been at fault or to have been a bad person by nature. Which means that if he still chose to hate him he must have had other reasons for it.

>or maybe he was an angry and spiteful manchild and didn't care which one was responsible as long as they all suffered for his loss
You are just restating your previous suggestion but in a more spiteful manner. What you are talking about is again hatred by association.

>>15503246
Restating the important part because it went over your head:
>It's almost like people have emotions, and they act irrationally because of them.

>>15503254
I don't remember stating that people don't have emotions. Only that there must be a reason for these emotions.

>>15503258
>Only that there must be a reason for these emotions.

Are you seriously autistic?

>>15503275
What bothers you about it? You think emotions appear out of thin air?

"This is going great!" - Homer Simpson

>>15503281
I think you did, because no mother could fuck up badly enough to raise a you.

>>15503698
Very constructive comment.

>>15503258
>Degwin Zabi kills Casval's father and usurps his colony into an empire, instilling his children into positions of power
>Char vows revenge against the Zabi family
>Gets Garma killed, tells him to blame it on the misfortune of his birth, ie on his family name
>Plans put on backburner when Kycelia gets him pulled off active duty and later reveals she knows he's out for revenge
>Amuro kills Dozle, Gihren kills Degwin, Kycelia kills Gihren
>He eventually gets his opportunity and missiles Kycelia's head off after his sister interrupts his duel with Amuro

What's so hard to get? And in case you didn't realize, he's not exactly the nicest of people out there.

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>>15502850

>>15502850
>blame this on the misfortune of your birth
>Garma is not a bad person by nature but he has been raised to be spoiled, complacent and self-indulgent.
That's not what he meant. You fucked up and this won't be screencapped.

>>15503924
Explain then.

>>15503935
>>blame this on the misfortune of your birth
Char meant that he wasn't letting Garma die because of who he was as a person, but because of Char's vendetta against Garma's heritage, the Zabi family.

>>15503719
>>15503719
I think I get what I need to get it well enough.
I don't see how what you posted has anything to do with the point I was making.
"Vows revenge against the Zabi family" is not an emotion. Hatred is an emotion.
An emotion is complex.
Under specific stimuli an affect arises. The response is automatic. An affect is not an emotion but simply a body state.
An emotion has a mental and a physical component.
The nature of the emotion we experience depends on our ability to correctly parse and interpret those external stimuli in accordance with out knowledge of . This allows us to identify the cause and nature of our affect and determine the appropriate actions in response to it.

Do you understand now why emotions don't come out of thin air.

If we assume that Garma has nothing on his person to offend Char with, then we could deduce that the only reason the Char could have to hate Garma is by ascribing to him the same characteristics that he found offensive in his father. Still we know for a fact that he did not do that.
Char did not hold Garma responsible for anything that his father had done.
Can you explain to me why he would find the trait "being related to someone I don't like" offensive if he did not ascribe to Garma the same characterisics that he found offensive in his father?

>>15503935
Misfortune of your birth, in other words being born a Zabi. The whole point of that bit was that Char is only killing him because he's a Zabi, not for any other reason.

How he was raised is irrelevant to his birth.

>>15503953
You are vastly overthinking it.

It's as simple as:
>Zabi's fucked over his life.
>Hates the Zabi family for the above.
>Vows revenge against the Zabi family.
>Kills Garma for being a member of the Zabi family.

Its no deeper than that. Char is a very spiteful and stubborn person who was going to try get his revenge regardless of ehat each individual Zabi was like.

>>15503956
>>15503950
>>15503924
I think the original post is on the right track. It's obviously a little more complicated than kill them because they were born Zabis, because otherwise he would've killed Mineva the next chance he got. I think it definitely has something to do with how they were brought up as a family. Garma at the point he was killed is already a fully grown adult and fully immersed in the Zabi family and their politics. He treats Mineva differently and with his disgust at how she's being brought up by Haman, we an see that he has no problem with being born a Zabi, but with how they've been raised to be.

>>15503950
>because of Char's vendetta against Garma's heritage, the Zabi family
That is what I have been arguing against until now and you are giving me no new information.
Usually he concept of "vendetta" is associated with honor but as I said earlier I have no reason to believe that Char would care about such things. If you disagree I would like to hear your argument.
Other than that a reason to hate someone is by ascribing to them the negative characteristics of the group they belong to.
I can't deny that Char ascribed to the Zabis certain negative characteristics as a group but those characteristics were not "are bad and evil" and "have done something bad to me" since he didn't consider Garma to possess those characteristics.

>>15503967
You are not thinking of it enough and you have the gall to judge other people because it's too hard for you to use your gray matter a little.

>>15503974
Char grew as a person by Zeta and didn't have as huge a grudge against the Zabis as he did before. The whole point of Zeta is Char growing as a person and moving from petty desires like destroying the Zabis to a more grand scheme concerning following his father's ideals.

>>15503956
Char would have probably never liked a person like Garma under any circumstances but it would have never come this far if they hadn't come to know each other in such a specific situation as theirs.
Still things being the way they were the fact that a person like Garma could come to have power symbolized for Char the kind of social degradation that allowed the Zabi family to exist.

>>15504004
His feelings for the Zabis in Zeta were not different from his feelings for the Zabis in MSG.
His ambitions in Zeta were not different from his ambitions in MSG.

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>>15503998
>no the exact opposite is true, its more complicated than you think, your wrong

>>15504026
>no the exact opposite is true, its so simple, your wrong

>>15504070
>its so simple
I didn't say it's simple.There is nothing complicated about >>15504004. It's the most simplistic possible interpretation that completely ignores consistency and a lot of detail.

> Blame it on the misfortune of your birth
> By which I mean blame it on how you were raised and who you turned out to be, not who you were born

>>15504081
>Blame it on the misfortune of your birth
>By which I mean blame it on your bad luck that a weak-minded kid like you happened to be the son of a dictator.

>>15504087

> Blame it on the misfortune of your birth
> By which I mean blame it on growing in to a weak minded person rather than your actual birth or anything to do with it

>/m/ - Nature vs Nurture

>>15504098
Yeah, but if he wasn't a Zabi he would have been just another weak-minded person.
And if he wasn't raised by a dictator he could have come to develop talents he actually has rather than try to impress his onee-san with military feats.

What's with this autism.

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>>15504105
More like
>/m/ - using context to understand things vs being autistic and overthinking simple things and being too dense to understand subtle things

>>15504122
You are the one that is not using context and doesn't understand subtle things.

>>15504118

Which is still the misfortune of his raising, not the misfortune of his birth.

Wasn't there a line where he says Degwin "deserved this", "this" being losing all his children?

"Blame this on the misfortune of your birth" = "Nothing personal, I just want to make your dad suffer the pain of losing his entire family"

>>15504136
To be raised you have to be born first.
This is getting silly. Instead of looking at just one line why don't you consider the context as >>15504122 wisely suggested.

>>15504141
>Wasn't there a line where he says Degwin "deserved this"
No?

>>15504144
Origin manga, just found it.
>Char, is that you?! Did you say unfortunate?!
>I did. It was your misfortune to be born the son of that sinful Degwig Sodo Zabi.
>Char, you...
>While you were a fine friend, your father deserves this. Ha ha ha ha ha ha
>Char... You've set me up, Char!!

>>15504142
>To be raised you have to be born first.

To do anything you have to be born first. By that reasoning Char could be saying to blame it on his shit taste in haircuts.

>>15504142

So despite the words having distinct meanings and being seperate, the concepts 'born' and 'raised' are indistinct and mentioning one can really mean either? I am actually considering the context, where Char appears to regret what he's done as he's doing it, but do it despite that; which suggests he hates something about Garma besides who he is, rather than hate something about Garma's personality. Just because I don't agree with your assessment doesn't mean I'm not considering things to the same or greater depth than you.

>>15504149
Origin Char =/= the char we see in the shows. I thought it was pretty well known that they changed alot of the characterizations in the origin manga

>>15504149
Origin Char is a lot more sociopathic and crazy than Char from the various tv series and movie. He fully embraces his dads newtype theory to crazy levels, to the point where he basically thinks that he's Jesus and it's only natural that he is THE newtype as he's the son of the man who created newtype theory (He basically explodes in rage when Amuro suggests that he might not even be a newtype as at that point in the manga it wasn't fully confirmed that he was).

>>15504167
I've only got the first two volumes, wasn't really aware of characterization changes.

>>15504170
Gotta get around to reading the rest of this.

>>15504156
Its who he's born to that usually leads to who raises him.

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>>15504149
>The Origin
Also:
Pic related is the official translation pretty much literal to the manga.
The only lines actually in the series are:
"Blame this on the misfortune of your birth.
You were are a good friend but your father is no good."

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>>15504179
No. Actually it's not literal now that I look at it.
The manga also says "Your father is no good"

>>15504167

Yes, but The Origin builds on concepts in 0079. If it's Char us blaming Garma's parents and killing him because of them, regular Chat probably did too.

>>15504177

Again, just because one leads to the other doesn't mean the two aren't distinct and can just be used as synonyms of each other. They're distinct things.

>>15504172
It comes up during the initial gelgoog fight (That whole volume was great). Char is ranting all this chosen one shit to Amuro to try anf get him to join up in the newtype faction Char wants to make after the war ends and Amuro casually comments that he doesn't sense anything from Char like he does with Lala and asks if he even is a newtype. Char gets the most infuriated look imaginable at the audacity to suggest such a thing.

I'm starting to think Gundam as a franchise is not for everyone. If Gundam or Zeta came out today, people would treat it like G-Reco just because they couldn't get the dialogue. Tomino dialogue usually doesn't completely spell out a character's motivations, but it's a reflection of them, with characters trying to articulate what they feel, but often just missing the mark. The id's supposed to give insight to what the character is thinking and help you fill- in the blanks between their actions, not a completely rational explanation of the motivations to their actions.

>>15504177
There is no implication Char at all thinks about how someone is brought up.

You can't even rationally infer that. What we see of Char through 0079, Zeta, and CCA is a spiteful, petty person. He really doesn't care about the "why", only what is and isn't and what can be achieved.

>>15504193
Pretty much this.

People currently lack the intuition and understanding to get anything Tomino is getting at.

Ironically I guess we've regressed further from the Newtype ideal.

>>15504197
Its implied from how he treats Mineva compared to the rest of the Zabis, amongst other things.

>>15504179
>>15504182
So then I still stand by my point, Char killing Garma had nothing to do with him as a person, and is just lumping the family together as something he needs to get revenge against, more or less.

>>15504203
Zeta came later, and she wasn't born yet at the time he swore his revenge. Plus she was a toddler when he finally got close to her. I don't think even Char would kill a toddler.

>>15504203
Though she wasn't born until like a decade after Char's father was killed, so it's possible that he sees her as unconnected to his revenge.

>>15504197
>What we see of Char through 0079, Zeta, and CCA is a spiteful, petty person.
"We" don't.

>>15504159
>The concepts 'born' and 'raised' are indistinct and mentioning one can really mean either?
The interpretation I provided in my first post is based on the way their relationship and personalities and Char's personal convictions and preferences were portrayed in the series and not on this one single line.
>I am actually considering the context, where Char appears to regret what he's done as he's doing it, but do it despite that;
He actively shows no regret over his personal loss of Garma either here and at other times if that is what you mean. He does express remorse of a general moral character at some other points though.
>which suggests he hates something about Garma besides who he is, rather than hate something about Garma's personality
In fact he expresses no emotion whatsoever at the time which is one of the things that are remarkable about this scene. He seems to treat it like a joke. If there is something that stands out in Char's attitude towards Garma here and in their earlier interactions it is complete contempt.

>>15504219
>>15504223
Just look at how he thinks about the Zabis , especially with how much he calls Garma a spoiled child, how he talks about them in his speeches in Zeta and CCA and how he reacts to how Mineva is being raised in Zeta. Its not hard to figure out Char's perspective from all that context

>>15504193

> Char really meant he hated Garma for being a misguided child who was spoiled, complacent and self-indulgent - he just wasn't able to articulate his thoughts correctly because he was being written like a real person and to make mistakes in how he spoke and acted
> it's not like someone planning a revenge goes over how they'd gloat to their enemy when they pull it off or anything

I broadly agree with you that people don't always get the dialogue, I just think that includes you - presuming you're one of the anons arguing Char hated Garma for how he was raised rather than who he was born as. Tomino doesn't always spell out a motivation, but just because he doesn't always do it doesn't mean he never does. Or that you can never take a character's words as any kind of guide of their actions.

>>15504203

Or that even Char couldn't bring himself to kill a literal baby in the name of revenge, and he showed to her the compassion he wasn't capable of showing Garma.

>>15504203
It is not, because he is a profoundly different character by the time of Zeta. He had already given his speech at Dakar, making him take responsibility for his father's legacy instead of lashing out at others.

This is all part of Char's character arc:
0079: Sociopathic, accusatory kid who just wants revenge
Zeta: Aimless adult who is shirking any responsibility thrust upon him
CCA: World leader who has taken on himself to lead a greater cause (though deep down he's still the same sociopathic and accusatory person, but concerned with a different aim)

His extremely narrow obsession with the Zabi only extends to 0079. By the time of Zeta he is protective of Mineva as an evolution of his close connection to the Zabis; he has essentially forgiven them. Yet he also seems to be conflicted on if he wants to support Neo-Zeon or not. This all highlights the identity crisis Char goes through in Zeta. Char is not a static character at all and it's stupid to think his motivation in episode 10 of 0079 is the same as episode 40 of Zeta.

>>15504248
>context
lmfao, that's not context that's taking people's words at face-value. You don't even understand what context is.

>>15504193
This guy is on point. Tomino's dialogue is too subtle and contradictory for some of you to understand.

>>15504250
He literally cited Garma being a "spoiled brat" as a reason for his untimely demise.
He did hate Garma for what he was born as - a weak-minded person with no personal convictions, but he also understood that this doesn't make someone a bad person. Still in the context of their situation he couldn't forgive Garma for being this way.

>>15504250
>Tomino doesn't always spell out a motivation, but just because he doesn't always do it doesn't mean he never does. Or that you can never take a character's words as any kind of guide of their actions.
Didn't mean that. Its just that people shouldn't use one line to make conclusions about a character. I find that you need to put them in context with the other things the character says or does. You won't find the character in one line of dialogue

>>15504254
>Yet he also seems to be conflicted on if he wants to support Neo-Zeon or not
Where do you see this?

>>15504254
He was the same character that was older and more battered.
He hasn't been lashing out at others at all before Dakar.
In fact he started lashing out at others quite a bit more after Dakar.
How does Dakar make have anything to do with taking responsibility for his father's legacy? The whole point of that arc is entirely different.

>Sociopathic, accusatory kid who just wants revenge
Oh no, he thinks dictatorship is bad. What a baby.
>Aimless adult who is shirking any responsibility thrust upon him
Oh no, he doesn't want to be AEUG's figurehead. What a baby.
>who has taken on himself to lead a greater cause
This is literally the same thing that he was trying to do all the time.

>he has essentially forgiven them
pffff
>Yet he also seems to be conflicted on if he wants to support Neo-Zeon or not
What part looked conflicted to you?

> it's stupid to think his motivation in episode 10 of 0079 is the same as episode 40 of Zeta.
And I guess it is stupid to believe he is the same person in episode 10 of 0079 as in episode 40 of Zeta?

>>15504265
"Bouya" just means "boy" though. The connotation might have been "bocchan" (using the same kanji, bou-ya vs. bo-cchan") which refers to a "green young man from a well-to-do family". "Spoiled brat" is "amaen-bou", but really, "bou" is used in more monk-related terms than spoiled brat ones and I'm not a native speaker so I can't comment on what the actual common connotations of the term are.

>>15504289
>green young man from a well-to-do family
This is even more telling.

>>15504288

> this is literally the same thing he was trying to do all the time

That stance is in opposition to

> Oh no, he doesn't want to be AEUG's figurehead

Char in Zeta doesn't want to lead a greater cause, and won't do so until Blex's death. He takes over the leadership after that, but Blex wanted him to do so all along and Char wouldn't. He could have been leading a greater cause with much the same motivations as his own Neo-Zeon, he just wasn't prepared to in the early parts of Zeta.

>>15504318
>he just wasn't prepared to in the early parts of Zeta
He didn't want to and they forced him into it and he still didn't want to.
being a leader=/=fighting for a cause
It's constantly rubbed in in your face throughout the series that Char is the standoffish (or to be more exact "benevolently condescending") individualist type of person. He is not afraid to be a leader but he doesn't want to subscribe to other people's ideologies.
From very early on it is established that Char's personal agenda differs from that of the AEUG and as the series progresses he dissents with them on more and more points. Dakar is just the highest point of this and after it his relationships with everyone become very strained.
If he became a leader at this point he would be a leader in name only because he would have to submit to the opinion of the general public and the rest of the organization. He wants to be his own boss and it's insufferable for him to submit to anyone ( which is why everyone else finds him insufferable ).

>>15504372

> Dakar is the highest point of this

Nothing in Dakar is a high point of him dissenting to other people's agendas or ideologies. If anything, it's him bowing to other people's will, not bucking it. Leading AEUG also doesn't mean submitting to the public, because the public doesn't control AEUG. He might have to submit to AE, but given that even Bright appears to be able to stand up to Wong I doubt that's true, and the relationship between AE and AEUG appears one of equals rather than AEUG being subservient to AE.

>>15504393
>If anything, it's him bowing to other people's will, not bucking it.
Well, yeah. But the question is really finally brought up and discussed here and it has that feel of a breaking point for him. He submits and declares "I've lost my freedom" but he actually becomes much less cooperating from then on even if he still technically goes along with the AEUG.

>because the public doesn't control AEUG
You are aware that the EF is a democracy, right?
"The general public is always looking for a hero."
But Char doesn't care about being a hero or anything like that.

>>15504430

> becomes much less cooperating from then on

Not really, no.

> You are aware that the EF is a democracy, right?

You are aware that the AEUG isn't actually part of the EF, right? That's why AE supplies them, because they're not an actual part of the EF and don't get official support or supplies. And why when they were rolled in to the EF after the Gryps conflict they were changed to Londo Bell, not just kept as AEUG.

>>15504453
The AEUG are practically an offshoot of the Federation. Their only purpose was to restore the Federation to the state it was before the Titans.
Char, as the leader of the AEUG, was expected to gain favor with the people in order to tip the scales in their fight against the Titans. If he remained their leader after the Gryps conflict he would still be expected to take some political position in the EF government.

>>15503708
>Implying there's a point in being constructive when talking to a literal retard that cannot read

>>15504479

Just because the EF expect something doesn't mean he has to comply. Nor is there even a sign that the rest of AEUG share that sentiment, given that Hayato, Amuro and others congratulate him on making the Federation see their point of view and wishes at Dakar. Char could have changed them as leader, because he's never shown to be subordinate or a figurehead as leader. Nor is Blex. He's shown having to compromise and work with others, but he's also shown doing that in Char's Counterattack, and he's used to doing that as part of Zeon in 0079 so that's explicitly not something he's incapable of.

AEUG's purpose was also not to restore the Federation to it's pre-Titans state. Their purpose was to combat the Titans and after a point to push people to move in to space. They ended up basically helping restore the Federation to a pre-Titans state, but that's never hinted or stated as their purpose. And it could be argued Char is at least partially to blame for that given that he left literally the minute the Titans were defeated, when the AEUG were at their most vulnerable and with another, possibly greater enemy still to combat in the form of Axis Zeon.

>>15504515
>Their purpose was to combat the Titans and after a point to push people to move in to space.
That is the Federation pre-Titans. And they were established as a direct response to the Titans.

>Just because the EF expect something doesn't mean he has to comply.
That is irrelevant. What's important is that he feels he should.
>Nor is there even a sign that the rest of AEUG share that sentiment, given that Hayato, Amuro and others congratulate him on making the Federation see their point of view and wishes at Dakar.
They were the one's who were setting him up to be a "hero" and telling him to make a sacrifice.
>because he's never shown to be subordinate or a figurehead as leader.
That is irrelevant. What's important is that he felt he was.
>Nor is Blex
Blex is the founder of AEUG. Of course he agrees with their ideals.
>but he's also shown doing that in Char's Counterattack, and he's used to doing that as part of Zeon in 0079
In CCA and MSG he is following only his personal feelings and doesn't comply with anyone.

>>15504515
>>15504554
I don't even know what the fuck is being argued about anymore.

>>15504577
Good point.

>>15504554

> This is the Federation pre-Titans

The Federation pre-Titans existed to combat the Titans and push everyone in to space?

> What's important is that he feels he should

Which it's never indicated he would or does.

> Blex is the founder of AEUG. Of course he agrees with their ideals.

Funny how he never actually indicated that he agreed with or wanted AEUG to be part of the EF then.

> he doesn't comply with anyone in 0079

He's a subordinate in an army, of course he complied. All the time. He even takes a time out when Kycillia orders it after Garma's death. He didn't comply with anyone in Char's Counterattack, but he certainly worked with people. He worked with other politicians to found and fund his Neo-Zeon, he worked with AE to get suits etc.

>>15504603
>The Federation pre-Titans existed to combat the Titans and push everyone in to space?
The latter.
>Which it's never indicated he would or does.
You haven't seen the series?
>Funny how he never actually indicated that he agreed with or wanted AEUG to be part of the EF then.
I see nothing particularly funny.
>He's a subordinate in an army, of course he complied.
He didn't subscribe to other people's ideologies.

>>15504626

> the latter

No, the Federation existed to push most people in to space but leave select people (themselves) on Earth. AEUG wanted everyone to move in to space. There's a clear difference.

> You haven't seen the series?

Common refrain. I could echo it, but what'd be the point. It's easier to just ask you to actually point something out, not just use cliche comments.

> I see nothing particularly funny

I also see nothing indicating Blex agreed with the Federation, wanted the AEUG to be part of the Federation or organized them to restore the Federation pre-Titans.

> He didn't subscribe to other people's ideologies

Not the argument. He could tolerate other people's ideologies, and work with those who had different ones in both 0079 and Char's Counterattack. There's no reason he'd have an aversion to doing so in Zeta, even if his problem was that he felt ideologically isolated from the rest of AEUG.

>>15504671
>There's a clear difference.
Whatever you wish. I forgot why it was important to our conversation.
>I also see nothing indicating Blex agreed with the Federation
See above.

> It's easier to just ask you to actually point something out, not just use cliche comments.
The theme of conforming to the collective vs. following your personal feelings is pretty much the centerpiece of the series. It's also exemplified in the conflict of adults vs. children.
Char in particular frequently discusses this theme.
He is in the position where he really wants to be accepted by society but later on he finds himself unable to "sacrifice" his personal feelings i.e. if he wants to be accepted as AEUG he feels he should be able to accept their views or else he would not be suitable for society. His conversations with Amuro at Dakar mostly revolve around this. He feels conflicted hereafter because on one hand he doesn't want to be a social reject while on the other he doesn't feel he can wholeheartedly accept AEUG's ideas.
As he himself said in MSG he still believed that "isn't the most important thing to express your personal feelings?"
And CCA is the fallout form Zeta.

>>15504737

> I forgot why it was important to our conversation

You argued that Char was identical throughout all of his appearances in Gundam, the same person in 0079, Zeta and Char's Counterattack, saying that he saw AEUG as an extension of the EF and not something he had any interest in changing or saw as something that could be changed since under Blex they were just an extension of the EF and that that wasn't something he thought could be, or at least was worth changing.

> frequently discusses this theme

Outside of him discussing sacrifice with Amuro at Dakar I don't recall him doing it at all, never mind doing so frequently. And even in Dakar, he's accepting that he occasionally has to sacrifice something to achieve his goals, not saying that he can't or won't sacrifice anything to achieve his goals. I also don't recall him ever indicating that he wanted to be accepted by society at large, only by AEUG. An acceptance he had regardless of whether he sacrificed anything, since people accepted him as Quattro. Blex wanted him to do more, but he was the only one really insisting on it.

>>15501407
Tomino self-insert charcter?

>>15504766
>You argued that Char was identical throughout all of his appearances in Gundam, the same person in 0079, Zeta and Char's Counterattack
Yes? What does that have to do with AEUG's ideals.
>saying that he saw AEUG as an extension of the EF and not something he had any interest in changing or saw as something that could be changed since under Blex they were just an extension of the EF and that that wasn't something he thought could be, or at least was worth changing.
Nope, I don't remember saying that.

>I don't recall him doing it at all
Every time he's like "No, Kamille, you have to be a good boy etc.etc." among others.
>And even in Dakar, he's accepting that he occasionally has to sacrifice something to achieve his goals, not saying that he can't or won't sacrifice anything to achieve his goals.
What in the world are you talking about?
> I also don't recall him ever indicating that he wanted to be accepted by society at large, only by AEUG
By this logic how did you deduce that he want to be accepted by the AEUG? I don't remember him "indicating" that either.
>An acceptance he had regardless of whether he sacrificed anything, since people accepted him as Quattro.
He didn't want to be accepted as Quatto. He wanted to be accepted as himself.

In any case don't bother responding. Talking to you is tiring and pointless. You are arguing with me even though you don't have even a basic idea what I'm talking about, what the show is about or how human beings work.

>>15504852
Not that guy but you're the one with the assbackwards view of how people work.

>>15504879
Explain further.

>>15504852

> what does that have to do with AEUG's ideals

In case you don't recall, you were the one that brought up AEUG's ideals in the first place (>>15504372).

> I don't remember saying that.

If you feel I misrepresented your viewpoint then it's because I'm trying to sum up one I don't agree with or even entirely understand. You're free to correct it.

> Every time he's like "No, Kamille, you have to be a good boy etc. etc.

Seriously?

> What in the world are you talking about?

Trying to respond to your apparent insistence that when Char is talking to Amuro at Dakar it's about feeling he has to accept AEUG's views or act different than he wishes to.

> how did you deduce that he wanted to be accepted by AEUG?

Because he accepted Blex's desire for him to lead AEUG and made a speech at Dakar as AEUG wanted him to.

> He wanted to be accepted as himself

I'm sure that's why whenever people asked if he was really Char he pretended to be a completely different person.

> you have no idea how human beings work

That refrain is getting old. As soon as you get tired of a conversation you accuse me of not understanding how humans work. Putting aside that we're talking about a fictional character, who is modeled on but not actually a human and not always going to be written to think and act human it's just getting boring.

>>15503197
Is this your first revenge story, or do you seriously have autism? Char intended to exact revenge on Degwin, and one way of doing that would be to take away what he treasured most, e.g. his family. Hence why Char said what he said. It was nothin personnel, but he let Garma get killed because that was his way of hurting Degwin.

>>15504924
There is nothing within the story to suggest that. There is nothing within the story to suggest that it follows the standard "revenge" genre conventions though I believe even those have to at least follow certain recognizable patterns in order to make such an assumption.

>>15504947

Dude, he kills Kycilla because he needs to kill all the Zabis. He has no grudge against Kycilla, who lavishes resources on him.

>>15504947
>There is nothing within the story to suggest that it follows the standard "revenge" genre conventions

Oh my fucking god lol

family is murdered/man's life is ruined -> child grows up/man returns from exile -> gets revenge on the family of the person who murdered his own

Have you ever heard of Monte Cristo? The Godfather pt 2? jc man

>>15504900
>You're free to correct it.
Char feels he has to comply to the general public and the AEUG in order to be accepted by them. As simple as that.

>Seriously?
Yeah, seriously. Why shouldn't I think that telling someone to comply with society might have something to do with the theme of complying with society?

>Trying to respond to your apparent insistence that when Char is talking to Amuro at Dakar it's about feeling he has to accept AEUG's views or act different than he wishes to.
"Only you can lead the AEUG right now"
"A person who can't make his own decisions?"
"The general public is always looking for a hero"
"Are you telling me to be a clown"
"The scenario hasn't been rewritten. People change."
Later:
"I've lost my freedom."
"People can't move into space without human sacrifices"
"I'm I a human sacrifice?"
"I guess human sacrifices run in your family"
How does this not suggest that Char has to comply to the public and AEUG's views and act differently than he wishes to?

>I'm sure that's why whenever people asked if he was really Char he pretended to be a completely different person.
Because he believed he has to be different.

>That refrain is getting old.
I think I'm trying to explain something really simple.
For example the fact that you'd say something like:
>I also don't recall him ever indicating that he wanted to be accepted by society at large, only by AEUG
I don't know how to explain it but it sounds really wrong. It's like, you don't seem to understand what the concept of "being accepted by society" means.
"Society" is an abstract term, you know. And the AEUG is not an abstract term. So it really feels weird to juxtapose them like that.
When you say "society at large" you seem to mean the entirety of humans as a group? That is not what I mean.

>>15504947
>some fat fag kills your father
>you then decide to kill his family out of revenge so he can suffer the same pain, and to serve some fucking justice
>for many years do you affirm this conviction as your sole purpose of being
>he lets Garma die and fucking headshots Kycilia with a bazooka
What, do you suppose he just ended their lives because they didn't happen to be raised as normal human beings?

Is Greco your favourite Gundam by any chance?

>>15505028
>He has no grudge against Kycilla
What in the world are you talking about?

Where is all this stuff about hating him for being a spoiled and weak willed brat from? In teh scene where Garma dies, all Char says to him is the blame it on the misfortune of your birth line, followed by saying that he was a good friend, but his father is to blame for what's happening to him. Considering Char's revenge against the Zabi is because of them fucking over his life and killing his own dad, it's pretty clear the line is meant to blame it on the fact that Garma is born a Zabi and that his dad's actions against Char are what's motivating the revenge, not anything personal against Garma himself. Char even calls Garma a good friend right before he dies.

>>15505068
>What, do you suppose he just ended their lives because they didn't happen to be raised as normal human beings?
I suppose that he ended their lives because he didn't like them and though that they were wrong which is what the story suggests.

>Is Greco your favourite Gundam by any chance?
It sure is not yours.

>>15504947

Char's story was originally penned as a tale of the folly of revenge, and the original TV series plan was for him to get distracted from his quest for revenge on the Zabis by Amuro and in pursuing Amuro give Gihren control of space. Char would then realize too late that his desire for revenge was blinding him and gave a madman like Gihren power, with Char helping Amuro and the White Base crew infiltrate A Boa A Qu to kill Gihren, before Char dies (well, probably - this part is unclear) in the effort after meeting Sayla one last time. His story was pretty standard revenge fare until the show got canned and the whole thing had to be rejiggered to fit in to far less episodes, with Amuro no longer killing Gihren and Char's tale of revenge taking a bit of twist to accommodate the new episode order. Even The Origin has him killing Garma as vengeance for his father, not because he has a problem with the Zabi's authoritarianism, and the entirety of The Origin is based heavily on 0079 - so acts like that will mirror, but exaggerate those in the original show.

>>15505072
I think he's saying he had no personal grudge against Kycilla as an individual. She lavished resources on him, basically forgave him for killing her own brother, and was one of the more level headed and loyal Zabi. Char goes out of his way to surprise shoot her in the middle of combat with a fucking bazooka because she's a zabi, not because of anything she personally did to him.

>>15505044
Where does the story suggest in any way that
>Char intended to exact revenge on Degwin, and one way of doing that would be to take away what he treasured most, e.g. his family.

>>15505088
U-huh, because you go out of your way to be a smug asshole to people you have nothing personal against.

>>15505089
He flat out says to Garma to blame Degwin for what's happening to him, and Garma's death was shown to have a huge impact on Degwin, even being the leading factor that pushed him to try to sue for peace.

>>15505079
You can try to watch the episodes in which they actually interact instead of parroting one single line.

>>15505092
He had something personal against her family as a whole, not her as an individual.

>>15505085
I don't give a damn about the Origin or what you think the original story was supposed to be about. I care about what I see.

>>15505104
You don't think he disliked her?

>>15505096
Where does the story suggest in any way that
>>Char intended to exact revenge on Degwin, and one way of doing that would be to take away what he treasured most, e.g. his family.

>>15505097
Yeah, and if you understood the context you'd realize it was playful banter on Char's part. I'm not sure if you are all that good at understanding sarcasm though.

>>15505125
>>15505125
I just posted it. He literally tells Garma that he's doing this because of Degwin and killng Garma is shown to hurt Degwin a lot. This suggests Char killed Garma to hurt Degwin.

>>15505097
>instead of parroting one single line.

It's almost like this one line is directly connected to the line that is being discussed or something.

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>>15505108

Okay, then let's see what's there shall we?

> Your father is the one to blame

And this is at a point when Char has no reason to lie or obfuscate things in any manner, given that Garma is about to die and what he says can only hurt him more, not less.

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>>15505063

> Why shouldn't I think that telling someone to comply with society might have something to do with the theme of complying with society?

For a start, he was mostly telling Kamille to grow up and stop acting like a child and throwing tantrums, not to comply with society.

> Are you telling me to be a clown?

You just made up that whole exchange. There's nothing remotely like it in the show. In the show he finds Blex, Blex urges him to take command and then he dies. There's nothing about heroes or clowns in the whole thing.

> he believed he had to be different

He'd have to be different to be accepted in a group who mostly knew who he was and didn't care?

> When you say "society at large" you seem to mean the entirety of humans as a group

No, I just mean people besides AEUG.

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>tfw two autists literally derailed my thread

So what do people think of the other three lines of dialogue?

>>15505092
Well you're fucking doing it right now, genius, so don't act surprised.

>>15506095
>So what do people think of the other three lines of dialogue?
See>>15502850

>>15506258
Yeah but that guy was the retard who started the 100+ posts of autistic arguing so I'm discounting his opinion.

I hate that guy.

>>15505079
He mocks Garma and calls him a spoiled brat while watching his funeral on TV. Although I think that's less out of actual hatred for Garma and more just shitting on Gihren's rhetoric to turn him into a lionized martyr.

>>15503150

Because Char planned to kill the whole family in revenge? Like he says several times.

>>15505148
>playful banter
Yeah, because everyone knows that sarcasm is an expression of friendliness.

>>15506189
Well, I can't say I particularly like any of you.

He meant he is a stunted manchild who had his original childhood stolen from him so he tries his best to live out a romantic fantasy while clinging to confused moral decelerations. He claimed to be fighting for something bigger, but in the end it was all for his own deranged desires.

>>15505250
>to grow up and stop acting like a child and throwing tantrums, not to comply with society
Dude.
>You just made up that whole exchange
That is from Dakar. You know the one thing we have been talking about almost from the start.
>He'd have to be different to be accepted in a group who mostly knew who he was and didn't care?
They didn't care as long as he wasn't a bother. He felt he should keep it this way.

>No, I just mean people besides AEUG.
I.e a particular group of people as I suggested?
If I change "being accepted by society" with "finding a place to belong to" will it make more sense to you?

>>15506339
For the thousandth time. If you hate an entire group it is because you project on every individual member of that group certain qualities that you hate that you believe to define that group. I you came to know a particular member of that group and found he didn't possess those qualities that you hate you'd have no reason to hate him. What part of this is hard to understand?

>>15501407
>For the thousandth time. If you hate an entire group it is because you project on every individual member of that group certain qualities that you hate that you believe to define that group.

I think that trait would be 'being a Zabi'.

>If you came to know a particular member of that group and found he didn't possess those qualities that you hate you'd have no reason to hate him.

You don't have to hate or even dislike an individual to be able to kill them, though. If killing them is necessary to accomplishing your goal, it doesn't really matter how much you like them.

>>15501407
He's a pathological liar and arrogant dick with mommy issues.

>>15506590
"Zabis" just a group label that possesses no information in itself. How did the Zabis offend Char by being Zabis if the term has no further significance that indicating their belonging to a certain group.
You don't hate niggers, women and jews because they are niggers, women and jews but because you ascribe to each of these particular groups qualities that you find heinous that are associated with this group label, right?

It's possible to kill someone for practical reasons without feeling anything in particular about them but I am not sure if expressing comtempt for someone on multiple occasions, trolling them in their final moments and quipping about their death qualifies as "nothing in particular".

>>15501407
>"Zabis" just a group label that possesses no information in itself.

They're a family, so there's that whole line of succession. Which matters, since they ousted the Deikuns as leaders of Zeon. Even if Char wasn't fueled by revenge, he wouldn't be able to reclaim his throne from the usurpers unless he wiped them out. Their very existence is reason enough for him to want/need each one dead.

>>15506674
>he wouldn't be able to reclaim his throne from the usurpers unless he wiped them out. Their very existence is reason enough for him to want/need each one dead.
As I said that is a valid line of reasoning too and most likely not wrong but I think the narrative indicates clearly enough that he personal feelings about them.

In fact he is portrayed as a person who strives for a level of objectivity but the more you strive for objectivity the more you realize that true objectivity doesn't really exist.
So even if Char would have wanted to say "I just want to remove the usurpers" that also rests on his own subjective judgement that they are wrong and that his idea of goodness and justice are superior to theirs. He is aware that he possesses those sort of prejudices too.

>>15506723
What does any of that verbal diarrhea have to do with Char's hateboner for the Zabi family?

>>15507780
Well, basically, I'm saying that Char's hatred for the Zabis is much better motivated than most people here care to admit. Which still doesn't change the fact that it is indeed hatred.

Is it hard to imagine that someone could correctly understand the motivations and circumstances of another and still have a valid reason to hate them?

Char has shown more understanding of moral relativity than all of you combined, though this is probably not saying much.
It just sounds unnatural to call him petty or spiteful.

>>15507995
>It just sounds unnatural to call him petty or spiteful.
The entirety of his relationship with Amuro is spite and grudge.

>>15508019
I disagree with the spite part and I might or might not agree with the grudge part depending on what you mean.

>>15503064
Because that's literally the whole character arc for Char in 0079.

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>>15501407
>Lalah could have been a mother to me

>>15508046
Late to the party.

>>15503197
Char:
1.) not the most mentally stable person
2.) has a very good reason to hate the entire Zabi lineage, seeing as they killed his dad and usurped control of Zeon

It's a good old fashioned classical revenge story: the kind where the wronged party takes revenge by entirely wiping out those who have hurt him.

It could have also been the way that he went out of his way to kill all of the other Zabis he encountered during 0079.

>>15508019
>>15508026
He hates Amuro until they blow each other's robots up at A Baoa Qu, then reconciles in Zeta. CCA is just Char realizing the true extent of his feelings for Amuro and acting up because he has a little crush.

>>15501407
>souls weighed down by gravity
It's like this:
If you're in a space colony, all you have to do to get to open space and zero-G is walk (or drive) to one end of the colony, ride an elevator to the dock at the center of the cylinder end, and step out into space.

But for people on earth to escape gravity, they first have to endure extremely high G-forces as they accelerate to escape velocity. They only need to do this one single time in order to be easily free of gravity for the rest of their lives, but they'd rather spend their whole lives constrained by gravity than temporarily endure that one difficult step to be free of it forever. They accept their limitation and let it hold them down, choosing to stay in the nest rather than to fly. They choose to be imprisoned rather than to grow.

Most people really are like this, using the risk of failure as an excuse to not try.

>>15508094
Long term zero gravity fucks you up. Your body has literally been honed through years of evolution to need gravity to function properly. Char needed to spend less time on philosophy while sniffing red paint and more time picking up a basic biology book.

I'm aware that the gravity thing is a metaphor for close mindedness and clinging to the past, and find it ironic that Char is the one championing the movement against this considering how much he refuses to let go of the past and how quickly he gets impatient.

>>15508093
>1) not the most mentally stable person
He is perfectly capable of sound rational reasoning.
>2) has a very good reason to hate the entire Zabi lineage
This is something not everyone seems to agree with
>It's a good old fashioned classical revenge story: the kind where the wronged party takes revenge by entirely wiping out those who have hurt him.
I disagree. Tomino's storytelling doesn't take anything for granted.He tries to explore the feelings that motivate people and in this process his stories become something entirely different that their archetypal prototypes. Char's feeling are much more complex that those of a generic revenge dude and if you dismiss his story as the as the standard revenge-is-bad tripe you are missing some pretty neat psychological insights.

>He hates Amuro until they blow each other's robots up at A Baoa Qu, then reconciles in Zeta. CCA is just Char realizing the true extent of his feelings for Amuro and acting up because he has a little crush.
As you wish but where is the spite and grudge part?

>>15508118
>I'm aware that the gravity thing is a metaphor for close mindedness and clinging to the past, and find it ironic that Char is the one championing the movement against this considering how much he refuses to let go of the past and how quickly he gets impatient
Char doesn't consider himself superior to the average person.

>>15508127
You are getting your early and modern Tomino confused.

>>15508144
Is this some sort of meme?

>>15508149
Earlier Tomino works are a lot less complex and more straightforward most of the time. He was less experianced and had a heavier hand on him that limited what he could do a bit more.

As time went on and he goes through his depression stage his writing and dialogue became a lot more complex as he had a lot more freedom to do what he wanted.

Char is not an overly complex character, and that's the beauty of him. He's immature, vindictive, and very much unable to move on, and it's these flaws that make him a wonderful character. He is not some arbiture of justice dispatching unfit rulers, he's an angry little child trying to hurt those who hurt him regardless of the collateral damage in the process (Until Lalah). And that's why he's such a compelling and powerful character. It's his flawed simplicity, not him complexity.

That moment of Glemy's death is the true Char shining through and encaptures his character perfectly. By his own words, Glemy is a good friend. He has never personally wronged Char or done anything to make Char hate him. He's someone Char could have a bit of playful banter with and then talk women while having a drink with. And Char still sets him up not only to die, but mocks and laughs at him while he does it. Not for anything Glemy did himself, but simply because of who his father is. That right there is Char in a nutshell.

>>15508210
>Glemy

Fuck, I meant Garma. No idea why I was thinking Glemy.

>>15508210
You are completely wrong in every single thing you said.
How could you be so confused?

>>15508065
Yeah I noticed just after I posted, shit sucks.

>>15508118
>I'm aware that the gravity thing is a metaphor for close mindedness and clinging to the past
It's not about clinging to the past but about holding on to the present moment. People just want to keep what makes them feel happy for a bit longer without thinking about the past or the future.
But that is not necessarily a bad thing.

>>15508232
He isn't wrong.

Can you just shut the fuck up already? You've gone through at least three separate people arguing with you about this in this thread.

I would know, I'm one of them.

>>15508616
>Can you just shut the fuck up already?
Why? I prefer that anon's explanations to what you guys are saying. You seem to want to fit Char into some prototypical box, when there definitely seems more to it than that. It doesn't help that most of your guys attempts to fill in the holes of your interpretation of his character is just that "He's a crazy psycopath" or "He's immature". It isn't convincing at all considering Char doesn't seem to act like either most of the time, especially once he gets past the end of the OYW

>>15508655
Also, not buying the Early Tomino/Late Tomino split. Certainly Tomino tends to get a murderboner whenever he gets depressed, but you can see the same kinds of Tominoisms in 0079 or Zeta as in his later works like G-Reco

>>15508655
>why?
Because it's been 100+ posts after five people have argued with you individually. The point has obviously become moot because you default on "no ur wrong" every time you're cornered

>>15508655
>especially once he gets past the end of the OYW

Characters aren't static. His character arc in Zeta is him trying to mature as a person. He's become aimless since getting his revenge in 0079 as the revenge was the driving force in his life until now, so he joins the AEUG to try and find soem purpose but finds himself pressured more and more into shouldering the weight of the legacy (His past) that he's trying to move away from, climaxing with his finally taking on his role at Dakkar.

Zeta is about his attempt to mature and move on, but CCA is about how he failed to mature in the end. Politics and Earth inability to change broke him and he's returned to being the same immature kid he was in 0079. Earth isn't moving fast enough for him so he just says fuck it and decides to force it so that people have to listen to him. That is child like behavior. It's the adult equivalent of throwing a tantrum. To make matters worse he is still stuck on the past, unable to move on and forgive Amuro and forget Lalah, even while in bed with another woman. Tomino himself emphasized and practically lampoons his immaturity with Char's breakdown at the end and the mother line, revealing that Char just wants a nice figure in his life to comfort and love him unconditionally in the end.

>>15508655
>You seem to want to fit Char into some prototypical box

Char is the one who practically introduced that prototypical box to the mecha genre in the first place.

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>>15503998

Did you not see how bloodthirsty Char looked when he killed Kycilia? Do you not get the simple and psychopathic hate he has for the Zabi family?

It's that simple. Stop violating Occam's Razor and get over the fact that the other anons here have constantly pointed out how straightforwards this is. Revenge. Not killing Garma or any other Zabi for the sake of being a pampered brat. Char needs to kill them to satisfy his own sense of revenge.

And Minerva? Did you miss the part at the end of ZZ where it's made clear that Haman was using an imposter?

>>15508674
>>15508674
Not everyone in the thread is the same poster. I just think the other anon is more convincing, and one you guys arguing with him or her, just went
>Can you just shut the fuck up?
You guys also seem to be making stuff up, with an Early/Modern Tomino distinction that I don't see. The only distinction is Happy/Sad, but even so his storytelling narrative style seems pretty much the same. And again, just calling someone mentally unstable doesn't really fix the inconsistencies with your interpretation of Char's character. It just brings up the question of why he only seems to act "mentally unstable" in only a few minor instances. I know most people wants to see Char's motivation as a basic revenge story, but I have reason to believe that the main reason for his hatred wasn't simply revenge for his family, but because he thinks that the Zabis have tarnished his father's ideas of Spacenoid Independence and used it to creat this pseudo-aristocracy that lets the worst kind of people to lead. That's why every time he's thinking about a Zabi he's muttering under his breaths insults about them, and we even see this extend to some of the pseudo-aristocrats that the Zabis have brought up with them, as seen in Char's absolute detestation of people like M'Quve. And I think the reason people bring up how he interacts with Mineva in Zeta is not simply to show that Char doesn't kill Zabis just because they were literally born to the Zabi family, but to point out how much he detests the way she is being raised to be just like her family was

>>15508725
I know Char isn't a static character,, but to just say he's immature or that he's just crazy isn't convincing when he doesn't act like a crazy person or an immature person most of the time. I would say that Char certainly does have immature moments, but they aren't the driving force of his personality. He's mostly a pretty mature character, I'd say even from 0079. Worn down by hardships and bad experiences in his life, sure. But that doesn't mean he's immature. Bad experiences in life are something we all have.
>unable to move on and forgive Amuro
Tbf at that point in the movie, Amuro had somewhat been a thorn in his side and Char didn't really have anything better to do but vent since he was stuck there
> forget Lalah
Kinda hard to forget when she's haunting you. Not to mention Amuro had the same issue, but no one's calling him immature for not being able to forget the dead woman haunting him

>>15508748
The box I'm talking about is the simplistic revenge driven interpretation of Char's character. I think there's more to Char's character than that
>>15508761
>Do you not get the simple and psychopathic hate he has for the Zabi family?
Not that anon, but I'd think you would hate the people responsible for perverting your country's ideals to create their tinpot dictatorship and pseudo-aristocracy. Nothing psychopathic needed.
>And Minerva? Did you miss the part at the end of ZZ where it's made clear that Haman was using an imposter?
The imposter wasn't switched in until after the Gryps conflict, which is when Char actually interacted with Mineva and therefore the relevant part of the discussion. Char didn't try to kill Mineva like the immature psychopath everyone itt is trying to make him out to be, both when he was in refuge on Axis nor when they met again during the Gryps conflict. What Char does seem particularly incensed about in the latter interaction, was how they were raising Mineva to revive the Zabis to what they used to be

>>15508725
> His character arc in Zeta is him trying to mature as a person. He's become aimless since getting his revenge in 0079 as the revenge was the driving force in his life until now, so he joins the AEUG to try and find soem purpose but finds himself pressured more and more into shouldering the weight of the legacy (His past) that he's trying to move away from, climaxing with his finally taking on his role at Dakkar.
This is just another generic interpretation that people keep on parroting without much thought.
How has he become aimless? He is doing the same thing as before.
How is he trying to move away his "legacy"? He is doing the same thing as before.
What does Dakar has to do with him taking on any "legacies"? I think I've discussed above the meaning of this arc.If you disagree with something feel free to address it directly.
> Earth isn't moving fast enough for him
How did you deduce that? I remember no "not fast enough" implications.
>returned to being the same immature kid he was in 0079
He wasn't particularly immature in MSG.
>he is still stuck on the past, unable to move on and forgive Amuro and forget Lalah
Why is this immature? I
>Tomino himself emphasized and practically lampoons his immaturity
I see no lampooning. I see no immaturity.
>Char just wants a nice figure in his life to comfort and love him unconditionally in the end.
How horrible and immature!

All you can do is blabber on about your "immaturity" boogeyman. You can just dismiss anything you don't like as immature so you don't need to think about it any further.

I am a mature adult male and sometimes I become angry when I think about lame things that happened to me in the past.

>>15502884
>Job John
underrated as fuck

>>15508761
I loved how this is the only gore in the series, and it was fucking perfect.

>>15508761
>And Minerva? Did you miss the part at the end of
Minerva is a ship in SEED.
Dozle's daughter is MINEVA.

>>15508019
I can't see it as being that simple. He obviously has some amount of respect for him in Zeta when Amuro finally gets back in robot. Even in CCA he went out of his way to give him an honourable fight, when he was happy to use underhanded tricks to kill off the Zabis.

>>15501534
>The Origin
i feel like the Origin takes a lot of unnecessary liberties with character motivation without considering how it impacts the original MSG

>>15509688
That's because its a retelling of MSG and not meant to be directly connected to the original series. It does its own thing and puts a different spin on it. It doesn't impact the original msg at all.

>>15501407
I always thought his kill against Garma was quite literally not personal. Like, he clearly feels guilt about it (getting drunk during Garma's memorial, thinking a sentimental thought about Garma, albeit a morbid one, right before killing Kycilia). I think if Char had all his druthers, he'd probably TRY to tell Garma the truth and shit, but it just didn't work out. His whole schtick leading up to and during the OYW was to topple the Zabi led Principality. He saw it as an illegitimate and bastardized version of his father's ideals. So he wanted to take down the Zabis, and Garma (though he was Char's good pal) wouldn't have understood due to all the lies Char had to tell to get to where he was. Had he left Garma alive, Zabi loyalists would have rallied around him and the whole thing would start over. Keep in mind that most Zeon top brass thought Char was just some hot-headed ace. I think that the actual instigation of Garma's death was just an opportunistic move. He saw an opening and took it because he didn't really have a choice. It was his butt-buddy from his younger days or his actual goal.

TL;DR: "Blame this on the misfortune of your birth" is, quite literally, Char saying "Pssssh nothing personnel, kid..."

>some faggot is so mad he started shut talking op in another thread
ayy

>>15509678
It is that simple though. Even that respect and weird sort of friendship are borne from that spite. It's because Char can't let Amuro go. In many ways with Lalah gone Amuro became the focal point of Char's entire life.

>>15510387
I think you might not understand the meaning of the word "spite".

>>15510448
I don't think you do. Literally everything Char does involving Amuro is colored by his resentment, grief and hatred. It's just like how even though he was friends with Garma for years it was all still framed in that hidden hatred for the Zabis.

>>15510465
Usually when I say "spite" I mean "desire to harm stemming from the baseless assumption that someone has deliberately taken unjust advantage of you". If by "spite" you mean "anger" just say "anger".

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>>15510488
>Usually when I say "spite" I mean "desire to harm stemming from the baseless assumption that someone has deliberately taken unjust advantage of you".
Well then the root of the problem is that you don't know the meaning of the word.

>>15510488
Spite is just the desire to purposefully inflict some sort of harm on another person. It doesn't have to be baseless or in retribution for some unjust action.

>>15510494
>>15510499

To take it even further, a spiteful person is someone who does things specifically to hurt other people for the purpose of hurting them.

>>15510512
>>15510499
Char doesn't fit that description either way.

As for my definition I was trying to explain why one might feel the need to deliberately hurt someone for your ease.
I am not sure my definition is precise but it satisfies me at present.
"Hurting for the sake of hurting" sound all right
but sadistic torture is also "hurting for the sake of hurting" and I am not sure I can say that sadism is necessarily spiteful.
The word seems to have the connotation of feeling of injury.

>>15510361
Which thread?

>>15510591
You are saying right now that the other side is correct but you reject it anyway because you "feel" your answer is better. You can choose to do that if you really want, just understand you're forfeiting the argument.

>>15510808
Please stop responding to the autist.

>>15510754
OP here. He's talking about this post:
>>15510167

I doubt that poster is talking about me because the last time I posted in this thread was 100 posts ago.

I was the one who posted these:
>>15503967
>>15503950
>>15504197

I eventually gave up debating with this guy because its pointless.

>>15510808
I am having a discussion.
Do you disagree that the word spite has a connotation of "feeling of injury" or not?

You know, definitions from dictionaries are hardly scientific.They were also written by guys who "felt" that the word means that.

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>>15510840
>debating through the example of subjectivity in dictionaries

Just stop, dude.

>>15510832
Lol, that poster was actually me. You're right, I wasn't talking about you. Just talking the piss out of this entire thread, tbfh

>>15510848
What did he mean by that?

>>15510808
Even going off of the google definition, How is Char spiteful? The only time he's trying to hurt Amuro just for the sake of hurting him is at A Bao A Qu, after Lalah was killed

>>15510905
He literally mocks and laughs at a dying man after backstabbing him and leading him to said death on purpose. I'm having a hard time thinking of a better example of a spiteful act.

>>15510840
Either you are literally autistic or you have done an amazing job at pretending to be.

>>15510918
I don't know if I am autistic or not but I don't think I have said anything that is unreasonable.
What precisely displeases you?

>>15510912
Do you make a distinction between spite and hatred?

>>15510933
>Do you treat these two different concepts as different concepts
gee I fucking wonder

No wonder everyone thinks you have autism.

Was Char right in CCA?

>>15511823
I think so. His biggest mistake was underestimating the power of Newtype magic.

>>15511823
>>15511869
it was too fucking short, it needed to be a 24 episode series.

>>15511731
I assume that means yes.
Then what do you think is the distinction between them?

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>>15512169
Spite, to boil it down for a retard, is when hatred makes you want to hurt someone.

>>15512144
If they made an OVA about Char forming his Neo Zeon movement during/after the events of ZZ leading up to the events of CCA or a movie right before CCA showing Char's re-emergence to the public and the political scene up to the beginning of CCA, then it would be complete.

>>15512265
Ya, they need to do that.

>>15509344
>She kills Ghiren with a headshot to the back
>Char kills her with a headshot to the face
fucking pottery

>>15512189
I feel like going into dictionary definitions is going too far in an autistic diversion, instead of the original discussion of Char's character. Obviously Char has a strong disdain for the Zabis, but I think that's reasonable for how much they've tarnished the meaning of Zeon for their own personal ends, and I don't think it's overstated as a motivation for his character, when it seems like him trying to fulfill his father's legacy, seems like a stronger likelihood for a motivator, Char is only really driven by spite in 0079. He has moments in Zeta and CCA where Char acts spiteful, but I don't think they are motivators to his character by that point. In 0079 and Zeta both of these times are due to the Zabis trying to pervert the legacy of his father's Spacenoid movement to establish a Zabi dictatorship and in CCA its when his escape pod is caught by Amuro and he's already in the middle of an argument with him.

>>15511823

Not at all. His plan was a crazy half baked excuse for Amuro to fight him again.

Even if he'd dropped Axis, the only thing that would have happened was the Earthnoids that all moved to space (ie, the rich elite and soldiers that were rich enough to escape) would have just slaughtered anyone and everything related to Zeon in a rage at losing their home.

Amuro (if he couldn't or wouldn't stop Axis by psychic suiciding himself) would have also gone after Char and killed him, win or no win.

What Char wanted simply would not have happened under any circumstance.

>>15512189
So every act of aggression is by default spiteful?

>>15512312
Semantics doesn't matter but if we are going to talk to each other at all it's nice to make it clear exactly what we are trying to say.
Whatever the particular definition of the word may be, the implication when people say that Char is spiteful, as this thread itself can testify, is that he has chosen to take action against other people on the basis of making the assumption that they have deliberately harmed or offended him without bothering to give any consideration or credit to or to concern himself with their motivations and reasoning. That is factually wrong.

Also if the occasion in Zeta you are reffering to is his first encounter with Haman I don't see anything spiteful either in his general attitude or individual actions.
As for the Zabis, his motivations against them are not spiteful and I am disinclined to believe any individual actions against Kycillia or Garma were spiteful.

>>15511823
Ask the people on Venus Globe

>>15512472
>slaughtered anyone and everything related to Zeon in a rage at losing their home.
Now this is headcanon

>>15501407
I don't think Char even had any long term goals.

The entire thing with the Zabi family is "go be close to them then kill them".

Then there's Axis Drop where he doesn't explain what he wants to do after that.

>>15512908
If I remember right he openly admitted to not having and plan or care about what happens after the drop. Dropping axis and forcing people into space was the entirety of Char's plan (His subordinates and other Zeon members may have their own plans though).

>>15512908
Nobody in UC ever has a plan because they never turn to the camera to exposit about their tax policy.
Gihren is the only UC with a plan and thus officially best girl.

>>15512918
>If I remember right he openly admitted to not having and plan or care about what happens after the drop.
Maybe we have watched a different movie then.

>>15512312
Holy shit you're still fucking going on about how you think people are using words wrong because they're using the ACTUAL DEFINITION and not what you think they should mean.

This entire thread is a disgrace and should destroyed.

>>15512927
>still fucking going on about how you think people are using words wrong
I'm not that anon. I think getting into how people are using words "wrong" is a waste of time, and diverts from the original discussion, which is Char's characterization and motivations
>This entire thread is a disgrace and should destroyed.
Calm down anon, its just a friendly discussion about a popular character. Much better than the deluge of shitposting threads

>>15512955
>better than thedeluge of shitposting threads
This is a bait thread.

>>15512955
>diverts from the original discussion, which is Char's characterization and motivations
Which is pointless to go back to when you can't wrap your head around that either.

>Spite and resentment frames Char's relationship with Amuro
>But Zabis though :^)

>>15512957
Would you prefer a thread filled with shitting on other shows and accusations of being a fake fan? This is one of the better threads on /m/

>>15512977
It really isn't. It might be better if it weren't plagued by an idiot thats genuinely incapable of understanding a character's motivations and literally makes up definitions for words to use as the basis of his argument.

>>15512977
>This is one of the better threads on /m/

This is one of the saddest things I've read all week.

>>15512967
His main motivations can be summed up in this way
>0079
Kill Zabis
>Zeta
Get Humanity into space to fulfill father's legacy
>CCA
Get Humanity into space to fulfill father's legacy
And arguably he was after the Zabis because they perverted the whole "get humanity into space to fulfill father's legacy" mission

>>15513006
And you completely misunderstand the drive behind each of these things. His father, by the time of CCA and arguably Zeta couldn't have any less to do with Char's motivations. Char in CCA is not some visionary he is wracked with despair. He sees no hope left in humanity and wants to hurt them so badly they have no choice but to go along with this plan. And again you fail to account for Amuro who is a TREMENDOUS point of Char's motives. He would have been completely unopposed but he deliberately gave Amuro a chance to defeat him, because he is obsessed with him.

>>15513049
That is the exact opposite of Char's character arc lol

He actually takes hold of his father's legacy in Zeta and lets it consume him in CCA. Yes, he is still a spiteful, selfish person who is concerned with himself, but he at least likes to think he is following in his dad's footsteps. Tomino's characters are often like this; they say one thing/like to see themselves in a certain light even though from their actions show something quite different. This is why there's so many idiots who say things like "These characters make no sense what bad writing" because they can't understand a multi-layered character who is at two ends of the spectrum at once.

The only time he wants to "hurt" anything purposefully are the Zabis in 0079. Char may be a sociopath but he isn't a psychopath.

>>15513068
That's why I said arguably in Zeta. Whatever lip service he may pay in CCA is just an excuse for his own frustration and resentment, and Amuro lays this out very explicitly during the climax.

>>15513049
>CCA is not some visionary he is wracked with despair
I don't really see the contradiction
>He would have been completely unopposed but he deliberately gave Amuro a chance to defeat him, because he is obsessed with him.
From Char's point of view his plan would've succeeded whether Amuro had the psychoframe or not. How was he supposed to predict that Newtypse magic would be strong enough to stop an asteroid from falling. Not to mention it definitely contradicts with the point of view that Char only viewed Amuro in terms of spiting him

>>15513084
>Whatever lip service he may pay in CCA is just an excuse for his own frustration and resentment
Its not lip service and its not just an excuse. Char actually believes in that stuff. Does he let his frustrations feed into it, sure, but I absolutely reject this cynical interpretation that Char is only doing this as an excuse to latch out. It's just not there

>>15513128
>From Char's point of view his plan would've succeeded whether Amuro had the psychoframe or not.
Except that isn't true. The crux of Char's plan WAS defeating Amuro. He was carrying out his vision but to him it was meaningless without finally settling the score with Amuro. He believed his plan was unstoppable but still couldn't bring himself to just do it; he had to give Amuro a suit "worthy of him" and give him a fighting chance so it would mean something when Char beat him.

>Not to mention it definitely contradicts with the point of view that Char only viewed Amuro in terms of spiting him
It doesn't. You haven't been listening to me at all, have you? You and the other guy keep going on about how you can't accept there isn't some deep meaning behind what Char does, yet you deliberately ignore when I tell you the depth of his relationship with Amuro? Char has a very unhealthy obsession with Amuro. It's a hatred that grew not just into a desire to kill him, but an obsession and a need for him in Char's life. With the Zabis dead and his goal fulfilled, he tried to become a man like his father but was unable to escape his own need to keep Amuro or the context of him in his mind, which is connected to his inability to properly grieve Lalah and leave her in the past. That need of his spurs his actions in CCA, compounded by his frustrations in Zeta. He is someone who wants Amuro dead but also cannot stand to keep him out of his life. Char is a man of obsession. First the Zabis, then Lalah, then Amuro. He tries to refocus himself on the dream of Zeon but slid back to Amuro.
>>15513146
>It's just not there
It's there in every scene where Char and Amuro are on screen together. There is a passion Char displays there that simply overshadows the colder method he takes towards the Axis plan and his underlings.

>>15513068
>Yes, he is still a spiteful, selfish person who is concerned with himself, but he at least likes to think he is following in his dad's footsteps.
He is not spiteful.
He does not think he is following in his father's footsteps.
He does not think he is worthy of his father.
He does not think he is doing a good thing.
He does not think he is a good person.
He is one of Tomino's characters that is most self-aware.

>>15513199
Just because Char is autistic around Amuro doesn't mean he doesn't care about his father's ideals. Though I do agree with you concerning his obsession with Amuro.

I do think Char believed in his Zeonic mission in CCA. After all, why would he change from who he was in Zeta, someone uncomfortable being anything more than a soldier, to CCA, someone who allows himself to become a near-messianic leader?

This is funny because I argued earlier that Char was killing the Zabis because he was essentially a spiteful bitch about it, but his reasons for leading Neo Zeon are a lot different.

My conclusion is that yes, he really is trying to be a leader of Zeon and follow his father, but that he also is deep down the selfish kid from 0079, and you see this in his relationship with Amuro. I think that's essentially the crux of who Char is in CCA.

>>15513329
>he is one of Tomino's characters that is most self-aware

lol the reason Char is such a weak new-type is because he has no awareness of other people or himself

>>15512265
Absolutely, the whole transition from ZZ to CCA just feels too sudden, they should at least show something about just what the fuck Char was up to during the whole of ZZ instead of him just kinda being there again.

>>15513049
>And you completely misunderstand the drive behind these
You can't argue that his motivation, whatever it is, is consistent in all of his
appearances. Nor have you provided any evidence here or later that his motivation is spite or whatever?
>His father couldn't have any less to do with Char's motivations.
Correct. Char has his own convictions.
>Char in CCA is not some visionary
Correct. He does not consider himself a visionary.
>wants to hurt them so badly they have no choice but to go along with him
???
>He would have been completely unopposed
He did not make the assumption he was more correct than other people
>Amuro who is a TREMENDOUS point of Char's motives
The conflict between Amuro and Char reflects the thematic conflict of the series. Char's feelings for people in general don't conflict with his feelings for Amuro but rather are quite identical.
>15513084
>Whatever lip service he may pay in CCA
I remember him saying he was bad.
>CCA is just an excuse for his own frustration and resentment
His frustration and resentment are a consequence of his experience with people. His actions in CCA reflect his attitude toward humanity.
>Amuro lays this out very explicitly
I don't remember Amuro laying out anything, much less correctly.

>>15513199
>he had to give Amuro a suit "worthy of him"
Who are you quoting?
>Char has a very unhealthy obsession with Amuro.
You have still not given any evidence that Char was motivated by spite.
>He is someone who wants Amuro dead
He doesn't.
>He tries to refocus himself on the dream of Zeon but slid back to Amuro.
Char has his own convictions.The conflict between Amuro and Char reflects the thematic conflict of the series.Char's feelings for people in qeneral don't conflict with his feelings for Amuro but rather are quite identical.
>It's there in every scene where Char and Amuro are on screen together.
The spiteful desire to lash out? Where?
>There is a passion Char displays there that simply overshadows the colder method he takes towards the Axis plan and his underlings.
Char displays more genuine emotion and it doesn't contradict his ideological background at any point but conversely affirms it.

>>15513337
>the reason Char is such a weak new-type is because he has no awareness of other people or himself
Then I guess all of his characterization is invalid because of your arbitrary definition of a newtype.

>>15513434
Newtypes are based on empathy and understanding.

I'm sorry there isn't a dictionary entry for Newtypes, but even if there was you'd say it doesn't count because it comes from the dictionary writer's "feelings" on the matter.

>>15513424
Anon, you just made an ironclad case for why the other guy is right, and then claimed victory. Everybody is right, you're either a or a fucking idiot.

>>15513515
either a troll*

>>15513507
In fact they have been defined as people with expanded perception within the show and in side materials.
Being able to perceive better people's emotions might lead you to better understand them but only if you have the ability to differentiate and identify correctly your own and their emotions.
I don't think all of those spazzy teenager that were recognized as great newtypes in universe were stellar examples of self-awareness.
On the other hand there are enough people out there who are self-aware without having magical powers.
Self-awareness if about a greater ability to mentalize, not a greater ability to perceive.

>>15513515
I don't know about that. I am not sure what point he was trying to make in the first place.
But if he was trying to prove that Char was motivated by spite I haven't proven anything of the sort.
I also think he tried to imply that Char's attempt to fight for a greater cause was subverted by his personal feelings. I disagreed with that.

>>15513550
It's an expanded perception that is brought on by people with a strong level of emotion, understanding, and/or empathy.

It isn't the typical understanding you think of in a rational sense typically (like a + b = c), usually it's more along the lines of an innate emotional state. Sort of a Zen thing, that can't be explained by a rational set of rules of how people think.

Also all those "spazzy teenagers" (especially Kamille) got stronger Newtype powers the more self-aware they became.

>>15513624
It's expanded perception.
This perception can be expanded to a lesser or a greater degree like in regular people.
People who have expanded perception might or might not have greater emotional reactivity just like regular people.
People who have expanded perception might or might not have a greater ability to mentalize just like regular people.
People who have expanded perception might or might not have a greater ability to effectivelly manage their emotions just like regular people.
All of these are independent abilities.
Kamille is emotionally reactive. By learning to understand and manage his emotions better he has been able to learn to communicate more effectively.
The same thing of course could be said for a person with regular perceptive abilities.

It's in fact more complicated than this but you get the drift.

>>15513199
Part 1
>The crux of Char's plan WAS defeating Amuro. He was carrying out his vision but to him it was meaningless without finally settling the score with Amuro. He believed his plan was unstoppable but still couldn't bring himself to just do it; he had to give Amuro a suit "worthy of him" and give him a fighting chance so it would mean something when Char beat him.
This may be your interpretation of the events, but they simply do not hold up to be true. There's a reason why Axis Shock is considered a miracle. Generally, one mobile suit isn't able to change the course of an entire asteroid. Char, or anyone for that matter, couldn't have possibly known that Newtype magic would be able to stop Axis from falling. So, no Char's plan didn't require him to beat Amuro to succeed, but Newtype magic ended up nixing that.
>you can't accept there isn't some deep meaning behind what Char does
I didn't say there was any deep meaning, I just think his motivations are somewhat different than the practically animalistic ones you ascribe to him. Fighting for what you believe in isn't really all that deep.
>Char has a very unhealthy obsession with Amuro
He has a strong respect for him as his rival and as a fellow Newtype. His conflict with Amuro in CCA is more ideological than personal, though of course the personal leaks in given their history. Recall, the infamous "Lalah could've been a mother to me" quote only happened after their argument over the future of humanity had already broken down
>his inability to properly grieve Lalah and leave her in the past
He can't exactly do that when she's haunting him. Amuro has the same problem. Doesn't mean that they have obsession issues.
>That need of his spurs his actions in CCA, compounded by his frustrations in Zeta.
No, it's his frustrations in Zeta and behind the scenes in ZZ that spur him on. He doesn't seem to have this need at all in Zeta, and I don't think he has shows this need in CCA.

>>15513199
Part 2
>He is someone who wants Amuro dead
Zeta and CCA contradict that. If he really desperately wanted Amuro dead like he wanted the Zabis dead, then he would've had no qualms killing him whenever he had the chance, and most certainly wouldn't have leaked tech to him. If 0079 should've taught you anything, it's that if Char wants you dead he's willing to do anything to do so. If anything, Zeta and CCA shows that he respects Amuro a lot. At the end of CCA, he seems more distraught that he couldn't get Amuro to his own point of view, and appears to be even concerned when Amuro first tries to push Axis with the Nu Gundam. These aren't the actions of someone who has a desperate need for Amuro to die, as you keep insinuating.

>>15513742
>>15513751
Is it irony or just appropriate that such an obsessive autist cant comprehend the autistic obsession of a fictional character? I don't know how you did it man, but you managed to watch a movie wrong.

>>15513776
Way to address my points. There are different ways to watch a movie, but at least I tried to back up my perspective, instead of namecalling and making assumptions

>>15513675
And all those kinds of perceptions fall under empathy.

>>15513799
There are 250 posts in this thread. Your points have been discussed to death, anon. There is nothing left to tell you beyond the fact you are wrong. Your "interpretations" are nothing more than insanity. You completely misunderstood Char and Amuro's entire relationship. You misunderstood Char's motivations for bringing down the Zabi family. You misunderstood why he told Garma to blame his death on his birth. I mean shit, your very first point here:

>So, no Char's plan didn't require him to beat Amuro to succeed, but Newtype magic ended up nixing that.
That's completely undone by Char's actions. Char fucking TELLS people in the movie that his victory is meaningless unless he can finally defeat Amuro, burying all his demons in one fell swoop. That was why he built him a whole new goddamn Gundam, armed with top of the line tech and top-secret weapons that he didn't even give to his own men.

You are not someone worth having a conversation with anymore.

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>>15513776
This thread has truly delved into absurdism

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>>15501407

>blame this on the misfortune of your birth

"Nothing personal, I'm just killing Zabis and you happen to be one. Not my fault that you're about to die for your family's sins."

>i've never betrayed anyone in my life

"I was lying to you from the start. I was an enemy all along, so it doesn't count as betrayal. Not my fault you fell for an enemy's ploy."

>souls weighed down by gravity

"I'm high."

>Lalah could have been a mother to me

"I have issues and wanted Lalah to be a mother to me and my children."

>>15513864
But are independent skills as I pointed out.

>>15513867
>You completely misunderstood Char and Amuro's entire relationship. You misunderstood Char's motivations for bringing down the Zabi family. You misunderstood why he told Garma to blame his death on his birth.
You have said absolutely nothing of value on any of these points.

>>15513867
>That was why he built him a whole new goddamn Gundam, armed with top of the line tech and top-secret weapons that he didn't even give to his own men.

Just pointing it out, he didn't build him the Nu or design it for him, he just had the psychoframe tech leaked and they worked it into the Nu which was already being designed/built, which is why the fin funnels are just tacked on like they are.

>>15515330
>You have said absolutely nothing of value on any of these points.
Then you are illiterate and not just stupid.

>>15513867
>There are 250 posts in this thread.
Of which I have made about 15.
>There is nothing left to tell you beyond the fact you are wrong. Your "interpretations" are nothing more than insanity.
Just because we disagree about things doesn't make me insane. Your attempts to psychoanalyze me from beyond the keyboard are unnecessary.
>You completely misunderstood Char and Amuro's entire relationship. You misunderstood Char's motivations for bringing down the Zabi family. You misunderstood why he told Garma to blame his death on his birth.
Just because you say something, doesn't make it so.
>That's completely undone by Char's actions. Char fucking TELLS people in the movie that his victory is meaningless unless he can finally defeat Amuro
IIRC Char wouldn't have minded dying to Amuro if Axis still fell. So whilst he does manage to engage his former rival on equal footing, it doesn't have as much bearing on his wider goals, which I guess you could say goes along with Char's overall character as he goes from war hero and pilot to political figure.
>armed with top of the line tech and top-secret weapons that he didn't even give to his own men.
That's because not everyone can use newtype weapons efficiently. For the few newtypes he had that could use the tech, he gave it to them.
>You are not someone worth having a conversation with anymore.
If you've checked out of the discussion, then fine. I'll continue to respond to whatever strikes my interest, and hopefully, someone lurking this thread would've gained something of interest out of it. A forum is for discussion, but since you are clearly no longer interested in discussion then stop responding and just go already.

Compared to the autistic here, Char is sane and a functional member of society

>>15515491
All I managed to gather from your posts is that Char is OBSESSED with Amuro and that you find this important and relevant to the object of our discussion for a reason you've chosen not to share with us.

>>15515686
Yeah. Being autistic is worse than massmurder.

>>15516041
Better to kill and have people ride your dick than to be an autist that everyone makes fun of.

>>15515686
>>15516052
We get it, you disagree. no need to be such a passive-aggressive baby about it. I'm sure by the end of CCA, Char felt the same way when he couldn't get Amuro to agree with him, but in your case it's just a character interpretation, not the fate of humanity, at stake

File: 1473745032529.png (217KB, 500x276px) Image search: [Google]

217KB, 500x276px

>>15501407
OP forgot one other line:
>I came here to laugh at you

What did Char mean by this?

>>15501407
Char has never betrayed anyone in his life.

>>15504430

EF needed more exposure. The best we ever see of it is the corrupt upper echelon and machinations of the military/merc groups. We needed to see these 'elections', what actual power they wielded. EF is glorified UN that actually got to the point of doing shit.

So how does it function and work? Does each 'country', region etc nominate someone or a group of people? What is average joes view of the 'democracy' they live in? Where's the voting process and entire command chain from EF president down to local council/mayor level.

This lack of civilian view in gundam has been the biggest issue to me and makes it look like the 'democracy' side of things don't matter because AE/military are in bed, but somehow the populace either doesn't know (so they can't riot) or don't give a fuck that they live in a monarchy/dictatorship instead of democracy where voting is meant to matter.

Why did Lelouch kill Clovis?

>>15501407
>ur a zabi noting personnel kid

>i was never on ur side lol

>metaphor for people who think of everything earth-centrically

>she was his mother figure who could tell him when to go to bed, with her gone he no longer had any peace (Fukui's canon Unicorn novel explanation)

>>15501407

>What did Char mean by this?

Char? But Quattro said that.