Can somebody please explain the phenomenon behind Neon Genesis

Puberty

Only normalfags didn't emotinally identify with Shinji. I recommend you try a website more suited to people like you.

>>15479131


To be clear most of us don't still identify with Shinji. He was a mirror to show us our own flaws; It worked for most of us.

Another good anime followed a similar deconstructionist plot, although it might be shitting the bed soon enough, but Re:zero has some solid thematic similarities to Evangelion without treading the same ground beat for beat. It especially focuses on relationships that Evangellion drops the ball on.

>>15479131
Why do you have to identify with a character to consider a work of fiction good?

>>15479035
Waifus is all it has going for it. Everything else is awful. Seriously if you're going to make a mecha anime you should at least have some decent fights

>>15479154
>deconstruction
When will this meme end? Eva didn't deconstruct anything

>>15479154
Please consider suicide

>tropey
Stopped reading there. OP should be permabanned just for puking up such a word.

>>15479154
Go back to /a/

>>15479254
>Only chink cartoons with robots can br good, and if he likes a chink cartoon that doesn't have a robot he must hated all the ones with robots because it's US VS THEM XDD

>>15479189
You can consider it good without self-identifying, but those who self-identify with Shinji will consider Evangelion good. All squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares.

>>15479262
Mecha>everything else

>>15479249
B-but the robots were actually flesh monster

>>15479253
Propose a better adjective to describe something that has a lot of tropes in it.

>>15479276
Tropes are broad and don't really convey anything. It's like saying something is metaphory, similiey, motify. Unless you're trying to say it uses a lot of cliches without sounding, you know.

If OP actually had a question: most people go through something without knowing the end. NGE is one of the few shows that got what, four reworkings on the ending? Most of the series is damn good to me and then you get to choose your own ending. Though I'd say it's at it's best flavor when you're young and mopey.

>>15479035

When the series came out, no-one had seen anything like it. You could argue that similarly apocalyptic mecha anime had been done before, but Evangelion had style.

Imagine watching this series week after week, and wondering what the hell was going to happen next. It was the Madoka of that era.

Also, not to mention - the plot took very, very unexpected turns, especially when it gets all kinds of dark. I mean, as a first-time viewer, I would be going "Holy shit, what the fuck is going to happen now?"

Even if you were rather more jaded, you'd still like the show because the characters don't respond according to archetypes: the cast hate each other for petty but very human reasons, shit gets really quickly, and the good guys fail to avert armageddon.

What's not to like?

As a side note, I really liked Shinji. He was a normal if withdrawn boy thrust into a situation that was completely fucked, and he eventually goes insane. You know, the way most people would crack under the strain of war.

One of the things I liked about Eva was how unconventional its cinematic techniques were. Although a lot of them were due to budget or time constraints, I appreciated the creativity it took to bypass them.

>>15479035
Anno is a good director, the way the scenes were shot, the music, the battle choreography( which resembles kaiju movies more than mecha shows), the trippy visuals, etc - make it a fun ride. Some people like EVA because they think it was deep, but it isn't really much more deep than any of it's influences- it just happened to be very well directed and had the perfect amount of depressive mopeyness and explicit psychological themes to be a 90s hit. Scenes like Eva unit 1 eating the S2 engine or the Rei body horror when Armisael penetrates unit 0, etc are just really well done scenes that stick with you.

https://youtu.be/jGZDepY_f5E

>>15479432
Also Shiro Sagisu's music is fucking amazing and adds a lot to the mood of already well directed scenes

>>15479432
Yeah, Eva 1 eating the engine was the most amazing thing I'd ever seen back then. Still love that scene to bits and listen to "normal blood" every now and then.

>>15479244
Eva has some of the best fights in all of mecha though. It's clear you haven't actually watched the series.

also for me personally, Evangelion was a gateway to other great mech shows which I've previously avoided under the misconception that they're shallow and repetitive.

It's very well directed, with great character development, all of whom are filled to the brim with pathos. Good action choreography in terms of how mecha action is handled.

I won't go and suck it's dick and say its the best thing to ever happen to mecha but its a nice break from your conventional Super Mecha shows that came out of the 70's and 80's.

Also, since it seems you haven't watched it OP, watch the original TV anime THEN End of Evangelion. Great series that needs to be experienced in that order.

>>15479454
You seem to have roughly the same opinion as me on Eva, have you seen the newer movies? I've not bothered with them as the only response I've seen is from people who religiously insist that Eva is SO INCREDIBLY DEEP AND COMPLEX, ANYONE WHO THINKS THEY UNDERSTAND THUS PROVES THAT THEY DON'T BECAUSE IT'S SOOOO DEEEEEEEP and haven't seen anything beyond it but Fairy Tail and Air Gear (nor read a single god damn book in their lives), so I don't have a decent impression of whether or not I should spend the hours.

I don't have anything against giving them a go, but I could spend that time watching or doing other stuff, hence me asking for honest opinions.

>>15479454

Eva is essentially an edgy version of 70s Super Robot shows. Most of the 80s was more about the more tacticool and speedy underpowered mechs, rather than the giant super hero mechs fighting kaiju that was standard in the 70s. Eva is what happens when you take a 70s super robot show formula but fuse the protagonist's mecha with Devilman, and then accentuate the psychological themes covered by 80s real robot shows like Ideon and Gundam. It's like Anno wanted to do Mazinger, Devilman, and Ideon all at once.

>>15479263
Something you identify with might be good but not everything you can identify with is good.

>>15479475
Not that anon but you'd probably like the first two Rebuilds. Third one is big separation and generally not talked about well.

>>15479505
Cheers other anon, I'll give those a whirl sometime in the future.

>>15479035
>tropey

Is Tomino right that the series is primarily mean-spirited and filled with nihilistic, unlikable characters with few redeeming values?

In comparison with his anime that are often downbeat and depressing yet always emphasize the ability of hope, understanding, and "empathy" (aka newtypes).

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Weebshits love self-insert beta male MC, haremshit, waifushit, ecchi, fanservice, and school setting

>>15479035
>Can somebody please explain the phenomenon behind Neon Genesis Evangelion?

Merchandising the hell out of 1 waifu since 1995. Oh add another one courtesy of the rebuild (Mari, one could say the entire raison d'etre of the rebuild is to introduce another waifu for the perverted otakus).

Other than this merchandising aspect Evangelion is as dead and buried. The rebuild adds nothing at all to the classical anime. It's completely useless.

>>15480181
>Is Tomino right that the series is primarily mean-spirited and filled with nihilistic, unlikable characters with few redeeming values?In comparison with his anime that are often downbeat and depressing yet always emphasize the ability of hope, understanding, and "empathy" (aka newtypes).

Tomino is right, Evangelion is a mean spirited nihilistic piece of shit. There is nothing redeemable in there (expect for the waifu merchandising aspect).
As for Tomino's own artistic history, it ain't limited to Gundam for fuck's sake. He has done anime that is as nihilistic as Evangelion (Ideon for instance) and lots of anime where hope, understanding and empathy rule the roost (some Gundam shows but also lots of other anime he has worked on)
The difference between Tomino and Anno is this : Tomino is eclectic and has explored lots of different themes. Anno hasn't. He is limited to and by one single anime : Evangelion.

>>15480181
>Is Tomino right that the series is primarily mean-spirited and filled with nihilistic, unlikable characters with few redeeming values?
He didn't say that.
He just said that it glorified "feeling bad". People will argue that this is not what Anno intended and they will be right, but ultimately his was just trying to justify himself and his feelings.
You will say "you are supposed to be repelled by Shinji" but people that don't identify with him will get nothing out of the show. On the other hand those teenagers that do identify with him will just feel justified in feeling more misunderstood and miserable than anyone because they are just "being themselves" like that. "If you don't like my shitty personality it's your fault. I can do whatever I want". I don't care if you don't think that was the message of the show. It was not but that is in effect what otaku took out of it.

>>15480237
>Evangelion is a mean spirited nihilistic piece of shit
It is not.
>He has done anime that is as nihilistic as Evangelion
He has not. Ideon is not nihilistic.
The difference between Tomino and Anno is that Tomino takes into consideration collective values. Eva never raises above well-intentioned teenage self-absorption.

>>15479035

You see it as tropey because anime has spent the last 20 years chasing Evangelion's shadow. In the 90s, it was considered amazing.

It also helps that the characters have some decent depth to them (I don't mean '2deep4U' meme speak, I mean that the characters have fleshed out motivations and backstories beyond paper cutouts normally scene in anime) and its just visually really distinctive and well directed. You can pretty much immediately recognize any still shot from Eva on style alone, and the show is full of shots that look like they could be postcards.

>>15480261
>He has not. Ideon is not nihilistic.

You're wrong. Ideon advocates that death is the solution to peaceful coexistence between humans. How the fuck is this not being nihilistic ?

>>15480282
It's only nihilistic if you assume that life has no other value than "peaceful coexistence" or that "peaceful coexistence" is an end in itself.

>>15479035
It was a bit of a gateway anime into mecha for me but honestly the more shows I watch the more I like Evangelion just for the way everything it does feels so different and stylish compared to everyone else. I rewatch the Third Impact scene from EoE (from about the time giant Rei appears until the end) almost religiously, there's really nothing quite like it.

>>15480340
Ha all you want, it really does.

>>15480335
>just for the way everything it does feels so different and stylish compared to everyone else
Really? Anno is a good director but not much more remarkable or distinctive in his style than other directors with similar aspirations.

>>15480453
I'm not saying that everything he does is completely unlike everything ever done before, but he does bring a very distinct flair to it. But the end sequence of EoE really is unlike anything else I've ever seen honestly.

>>15480261
>Eva never raises above well-intentioned teenage self-absorption.
FLCL has the same theme as well; sexually frustrated teenage boy.

>>15480461
A lot of shows have that theme.

>>15480276
>You see it as tropey because anime has spent the last 20 years chasing Evangelion's shadow. In the 90s, it was considered amazing.
Eva is an Ideon clone

>>15479447
>Only my opinion matters
Evafags are really obnoxious

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>>15480478
Pretty much.

>>15480473

No, Evangelion stole from Childhood's End.

Ideon just stole from Childhood's End first, and was much less popular.

Read a book.

>>15480559
Childhood's End was about mommy issues?

>>15479035
Can you explain Harry Potter or more recently Hungergames? Nobody knows how this works.

I mean a lot of anime shows tried to capture it.

>>15479035
It's hard to explain, it's a weird show largely born out of a weird man where weird things happen to weird people.

Personally I'm in it for the cosmic otherness where reality sort of shits itself in a localized area due to alien bullshit. Don't ask me why I haven't really gotten into Fafner yet when it has plenty of that too, because I have no real reason why other than "now is not the time."

I think for most others it's really just a matter of being in the right place at the right time. Half of success is pure RNG yknow.

>>15480237
>Anno hasn't. He is limited to and by one single anime : Evangelion.

Gunbuster exists you know.

>>15480276
Characters with good fleshed out motivations and backstories had been a thing in the mecha genre since the late 70s, EVA did'nt do anything
new in that regard. I agree it was really well directed though. The guy was an animator first and foremost, visual style is his real talent more so than writing stories or characters.

>>15480237
Not anime, but his recent Shin Godzilla was fucking A+

>>15480294
>It's only nihilistic if you assume that life has no other value than "peaceful coexistence" or that "peaceful coexistence" is an end in itself.

Considering human beings are social animals, peaceful coexistence should be a fucking important goal. If nothing else for the survival of the species. In Ideon Tomino asserts that it doesn't matter what you do, you are doomed to external conflict, strife, war, misunderstanding. And the only way to overcome this problem is death. Yep, not even human intellect is capable of solving this problem. So yeah I stand by my opinion : Ideon is fucking nihilistic.
Happily Tomino changed his view in subsequent anime shows he worked on and has never again subscribed to such a nihilistic world view.

>>15480648
>Not anime, but his recent Shin Godzilla was fucking A+

That's debatable. Shin Godzilla has like 3 fucking good scenes in 2 hours. The rest is a B grade film. I mean the original Godzilla film even accounting for the old special effects has more oooooompf that the latest installment and was way more dynamic.

Spam christian symbolism and imagery everywhere to make it look cool

>>15480689
Peace is neutral. It is not a positive value. Is simply means the absence of conflict. The absence of conflict allows us to focus on the positive aspects of our life but it doesn't create them nor does conflict negate them.
The personal misery of a person or a group of people is bad but doesn't prove that life in itself is worthless and Ideon never claimed that. Quite the opposite. Tomino always focused on the renewal of life even in Ideon. Especially in Ideon.
It's only stated that conflict is inescapable. And that this is bad. But it doesn't make life meaningless. None of these attitudes are different here in comparison with his later works.
Why are you conflating pessimism with nihilism?
Tomino is bitter that we don't live in the best of worlds and are not the best we can be but that is not a rejection of life in itself.

>>15479035
What the fuck does "tropey" mean? Every story is made from tropes.

>>15480237
>Anno hasn't. He is limited to and by one single anime : Evangelion.
How have you not heard of Gunbuster or Nadia?

>>15480181
>Is Tomino right that the series is primarily mean-spirited and filled with nihilistic, unlikable characters with few redeeming values?
This is coming from the guy who made Zeta Gundam?

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>>15480701
Ultraman did it first and better.

>>15480643
> Characters with good fleshed out motivations and backstories had been a thing in the mecha genre since the late 70s, EVA did'nt do anything
new in that regard.

Sure. But that doesn't make it any less responsible for its popularity. Things can be unique without being popular, and vice versa.

No one watches a well written, well, acted, and well directed movie and proclaims "Yeah, but I saw a movie that was good last week already, time to throw this into the trash!"

>>15481359
He lightened up a lot since then. Heck, it's the main reason why he criticized Attack on Titan's author.

>>15481359
Tomino made Zeta while he was into a slump IIRC. That is why everything is so fucking awful and everyone is an asshole and then dies. It is also why he made the New Translation movies after he got out of his slump.

>>15481456
>It is also why he made the New Translation movies after he got out of his slump.

Except these movies only prove that Tomino is at his best when he is depressed because they are nothing but bafflingly low effort hack job edits that chop out some of the best bits while adding nothing noteworthy in compensation.

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>>15479035
>tropey

>>15481317
Logically that it either contains an excess of tropes or leans heavily on them.

>tropey
is it hard for you to say cliched? or is that you feared to get your ass teared because it could sound more negative?

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>>15479035
>Can somebody please explain the phenomenon behind Neon Genesis Evangelion?

- Top shelf waifu harem
- Charismatic MC
- Good design of the robots
- Original plot
- Excellent Deconstruction

>>15479035
I liked it for the weird monsters and good action, but I get the impression most fans only care about waifus.

>>15480237
>Evangeleon is nihilistic
Do people just stop watching immediately before the series ends? The entire message of the show is that even though other people will make your life miserable, individuality and human life are valuable and worth keeping. It's not like they're subtle about it either, this is only slightly paraphrased from the huge soliloquy in the last episode.

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I've recently finished all the 26 episodes of NGE. Is any of the extra material (manga/movies/remakes) worth it, or at least worth it for someone who made it to the end of the series?

>>15482166
>Do people just stop watching immediately before the series ends?
The "NGE is impossible to understand" meme is so strong, it makes people doubt what's right in front of them.

>>15480478
>This level of ironing

Contrarianfags are really moronic.

>>15480340
>They're good, but let's not get ahead of ourselves here.

The only fights that I can think of that are better are from OVAs/movies which have the benefit of higher budgets and longer production schedules so they don't count.

>>15482659
Layzner and Dunbine both have better fights imo, but the styles were totally different, since Eva was Ultraman style, where those shows took their cues from MSG.

>>15482040
It did'nt really "deconstruct" the genre though, most of the stuff cited was present in MSG, Zambot 3 and Ideon.

>>15481359
He did not say that. For God's sake. Why do you people always have to fail at critical thinking?

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>>15479035
Copy + Paste of all the things Anno thought were cool in his college years.

>>15481359
Zeta was full of interesting and compassionate characters with unique problems. Unlike in Evangelion where the second half of the series has a new angst-filled mental breakdown each episode.

>>15484997
Also Zeta was the opposite of nihilistic. The entire show champions the power of hope and empathy, with a bittersweet ending where the villain is defeated due to solidarity with others at the cost of one's life.

>>15482954
Considering the manchild he is, it's more like throughout his life

>>15482659
You seem very inexperienced.