>cool thing happens under special circumstances >everyone

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I think this is why with subsequent rewatches of T1 the more I enjoy it more than T2. As great as based Jim was there seemed to be too many callbacks thrown in for the sake of it.

>>15476903

> Can you think of any other examples?

Lance Henrickson being all those Aliens sequels as other Bishops or whatever other bullshit?

>>15476916

>As great as based Jim was there seemed to be too many callbacks thrown in for the sake of it.

Never watch Terminator Sega Genesis, you'll kill yourself.

>that part where the Asian T-1000 is in a cop outfit for literally no reason
>I'll be back
>Come with me if you want to live

>>15476903
It's been a while but wasn't the T-800 relatively new? I'd be willing to believe various iterations all looked like different people.

Obviously you're still right in that it's an excuse to use him again, but it can "work", at least.

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>>15476922
Terminator Gysnysys was such an embarrassment.

Especially the new Sarah Connor.

When your new Sarah, who was raised from childhood by a killer robot to become the ultimate badass, actually looks LESS badass than Linda Hamilton in a cute waitress outfit, you know you fucked up.

I mean fuck.

If I had to entrust the fate of humanity to either nu-Sarah armed to the teeth, or Linda Hamilton with an apron full of ice cream, I'd put my trust in the latter.

>>15476903
Isn't that a lot of the recurring things in the Gundam franchise?

>>15476961

>When your new Sarah, who was raised from childhood by a killer robot to become the ultimate badass, actually looks LESS badass than Linda Hamilton in a cute waitress outfit, you know you fucked up.

As one of the few people who doesn't mind Emila Clarke on GoT(I think she's perfectly acceptable to good as Khaleesi) I have to agree with you.

Her "come with me if you want to live" delivery sounded like a little kid doing cosplay at Comic-Com.

>>15476964
The Gundam itself counts

It's almost as if people construct stories using layers of metaphor and reference in order to serve the presentation of some greater idea, rather than making them a simple correlation to an arbitrarily defined reality.

>>15476983

To be fair there's a difference between using the visual aesthetic of your story to develop your themes and using iconography for its own sake, ie fanervice.

Not that fanservice is always bad, but lets call a spade a spade.

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>>15476983
>brand recognition is a greater idea

>>15476968
>Her "come with me if you want to live" delivery sounded like a little kid doing cosplay at Comic-Com.

Her EVERYTHING delivery sounded like that. That was one of the most, "I'm just here for a paycheck are we done yet?" performances I've ever seen in a movie.

>>15476903
Robocop, rather famously. In the original he only took his mask off toward the end of the movie, and at that point the inflection in his voice also changes. With the helmet on he's Robocop, with it off he's Murphy.

Every subsequent movie pretty much throws that out the window. We see him take the helmet on and off and there's never again that clear delineation between Robocop, having his actions driven by programming, and Murphy, having his actions driven by the man.

The reboot even makes this an explicit plot point, and they STILL fucked it up. How do you even?

>>15476961
who would win in a fight (T2) Linda Hamilton or (Aliens) Sigourney Weaver?

>>15477308
Siggy is taller but Linda was fucking toned as fuck

Reach is very important in a fight, but if Linda managed to grapple Siggy she'd win.

>>15476968
So much for the mother of the resistance huh?

She looks more like the awkward teenage niece of the resistance.

>>15476903
>In the original, there is no indication that "Terminators" all look like Arnold. That's a retcon so that they can bring Arnold back for sequels.

Even the first movie establishes that there are two ID numbers for the Terminator. He's a "T-800" but he's also "Model 101"

The 101 refers to the disguise type, in this case, Arnold. You think a machine-civilization isn't going to reuse molds?

>>15477345
the machines don't have a civilization though

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>>15476903
I'll defend MGS4 to death, but I'll admit that a lot of the fanservice is tacky as fuck. This and Psycho Mantis coming back out of nowhere come to mind.

>>15477299

For RoboCop, I think they just had no clue what to do wit hhis character. So they pretended the character acc didn't happen, and he's just a robot guy again.

>>15476934
They weren't all supposed to look like him. I think I remember that the T-800 in T2 was sent back in time with that appearance so that it would be familiar enough to Sarah Connor that it could prove that it was supposed to be there, sent by John.

>>15477355
It makes sense that a race of machines would re-use disguises in other places. The human resistance probably didn't have very good global communications, so it would be easy to re-use a Cyberdyne System Model in several different resistance pockets, and without warning from other resistance groups that had already seen it, it might work.

Then in that one shitty Terminator movie set in the future, Salvation, they showed they used Terminator sniffing dogs. But the T-800 infiltration units in that movie, shitty as it was, did not look like Arnold except for the one that they used in the fight scene at the very end.

>>15477916
yeah sure

but the machines aren't a race

Oh, and one example I can remember clearly: Star Control III was written by a different team, and most of what they did was re-use the exact same plots and even dialogue for the alien races without any context for why those races were interesting in the first place. Some of the new alien races were really good (the Daktaklakpak were hilarious) but the game was ultimately not very good.

Another good example is Benedict Cumberbatch as Khan in Star Trek: Into Darkness. Without Space Seed, and even without Wrath of Khan, there is little explanation as to who he was and why he was significant. Without Kirk stranding Khan on Ceti Alpha V, there pretty much was no reason for him to be back, to hate the Federation, or to hate Kirk except for "we need a named, known villain to be evil". The entire plotline about the Eugenics Wars and the Augments ruling 20th and 21st century Earth was handwaved. Khan was bad because he was bad, not because he had a history with Kirk and wanted revenge. So all of that stuff about revenge being a dish best served cold... it had no impact.

>>15477299
The reason for what happened to Robocop is the sheer fact they made a sequel off of a movie that really didn't need one.

>>15477345
I don't think the term T-800 is ever used in the movie, leaving the sole identifier as model 101.
>The 101 refers to the disguise type, in this case, Arnold.
What you're doing there is applying sequel logic to an original. This is what OP is complaining about: sequels essentially rewriting the rules. There's nothing in the original movie to indicate they would ever reuse a disguise. That terminator in the future 'flashback' would also be assumed to be a 'model 101' by the audience without further entires in the franchise to change it's context.

>>15477921
You're just being pedantic.

>>15477916
>. But the T-800 infiltration units in that movie, shitty as it was, did not look like Arnold except for the one that they used in the fight scene at the very end.
From memory there weren't any other T-800s. All the other Terminators were the 'rubber skin' ones mentioned by Reese in the first movie or just robo skeletons. Uncanny valley CG Arnie was the first fleshy Terminator we see in the movie except for the main character.

>>15478554
>the 'rubber skin' ones mentioned by Reese in the first movie

T-600s.

>>15476968
It sure as hell didn't help that she looked like a pudgy teenager rather than a hardened warrior against the machines.
Linda Hamilton deserves a ton of credit for the amount of work she put into her role in T2.

>>15478554
There's a flashbackin the first movie where Kyle remembers an ambush by another T-800. He looks human, no rubber skin, the only way they realize he's a robot before they start shooting is a dog snarls at him. There's multiple T-800's with different appearances in the first movie alone, either some of them reuse the same human design or John Connor sent back one that specifically looked exactly like the one that tried to kill his mom to teach her a lesson about robot tolerance.

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Fucking Macross... All Kawamori has ever achieved when writing the sequels was ruining what made SDF/DYRL such a special story by making each new songstress a literal, magical anti-war plot device because cultural enrichment is the only way to justify that sort of setup without the whole experience being contrived idiocy.

Writing entirely brand new stories that actually make use of the interstellar premise in any meaningful manner is just way too hard apparently...

>>15478536
>I don't think the term T-800 is ever used in the movie

600 is used in dialogue, but otherwise, the numbers all come from promotional material.

>>15477299
Robocop 2 handled it pretty well I thought. Murphy was deliberately immersing himself in the Robocop persona because he was forced to accept that he could never be a husband or a father again and it was all he had left.

Remember "I don't know you"

>>15476916
jesus christ even after all these years is there a more GOAT robot design than the T-800?

>>15478819
As a horror design? Maybe Screamers, though that's more from a conceptual standpoint than a pure mechanical design one. The T-800's really damn good.

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>>15478819
You can tell that James Cameron and Stan Winston put a lot of thought into the prop/puppet's articulation and range of motion. I think that's a big part of its appeal and how scary it ended up being in the movie.

>>15478650
He means Arnold is the only 800 that appears in Salvation. The movie was set at the point in history where only 600s were out there and the 800s were just invented.

>>15476903
Actually, Arni made sense in T2 and T3. In T2 he was the Model in T1, just captured and reprogrammed. In T3 he was sent back so John could actually trust the version. The only appearance who doesn't make sense is Arni in Genysis, he has no reason to be the same Model whatsoever.

>>15476922
>that part where the Asian T-1000 is in a cop outfit for literally no reason

A cop uniform is, or at least was, a symbol of authority. Which the T-1000 could use to get to places it couldn't disguised as just any regular joe without arousing as much suspicion. Plus if it has a shoot out with Pops and Sarah in public humans would just assume the two of them were "the bad guys" and report it to the actual police, so now they'd be a bunch of people looking for them and reporting them in. One might even get a lucky shot on Sarah.

If the resistance all know what model 101s looked like and why did Skynet keep on making them?

>>15477308
They'd get interrupted by time traveling terminator xenomorphs and then team up to take them down.

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>T2 introduces the T1000: mimetic polyalloy unit that can shapeshift
>T5 introduces the T5000: mimetic nanoswarm that can replicate people
>T6 introduces the T 1 Billion: mimetic polyalloy nuclear fusion monster that is as big as the sun and can eat planets

>>15483851
>T6 introduces the T 1 Billion: mimetic polyalloy nuclear fusion monster that is as big as the sun and can eat planets
But can it beat one trillion of lions?

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>>15477916
>But the T-800 infiltration units in that movie, shitty as it was, did not look like Arnold except for the one that they used in the fight scene at the very end.

The T-800 at the end, or the T-RIP as it's called for some reason, is the only T-800 in the movie. All the others are T-600s.

>>15476916
>>15478869
For some reason the opening of T2, specifically the parts showing the future war, always bothered me a bit and I think I just figured out why. Now this Terminator having all of those pistons and other shit exposed makes sense, they needed to make it fit under a sheath of human tissue, it was for infiltration not straight up combat. But the ones in T2 were intended to be sent out into battle where such a thing is not needed and they still have all that shit exposed, no armor plates or anything. Which it could probably use since the resistance had plasma weaponry by then.

I think the T-900 from one of the games added armor plate all over the terminator design. But then again that was probably because the consoles at the time couldn't handle the number of polygons needed to make an unarmored endoskeleton look good, so the plate simplified the design

>>15481446
>The only appearance who doesn't make sense is Arni in Genysis, he has no reason to be the same Model whatsoever.

I say we should hold off on that until it's explained who sent him and why. Suppose it was a John Conner from a timeline where he didn't get Doctor Whoed, he might have picked that model just because he went through T2 or at least a version of it. Didn't they say there are around 7 timelines interacting in Genisys?

>>15483851
>T7 introduces the T-Infinity: an artificial godlike entity that can directly mold reality to its whims

>>15484036
T-infinity already exists in the comics

it's just a terminator that can time-travel autonomously

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>>15484036
>T7 introduces the T-Infinity

>>15483933
Skynet may have thought the psychological effect of its skeleton fetish would be more useful overall than armouring.

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>read the script of T1
>there was an aerobics scene planned
>it was never shot

What the FUCK?!

It's ONLY thing T1 lacks to be the best movie of all time and they CHOSE not to shoot it?!

Like, it wasn't something they overlooked, at one point there was supposed to be a scene in a gym where Sarah's friend does aerobics, they had it planned and all, and then they went "nah we won't shoot it".

It even played into the overall themes of machines as antagonists cause the workout machines fucked up at one point.

But they didn't shoot it. They CHOSE not to shoot the obligatory aerobics scene that every 80s horror movie should have.

Cameron you FUCKING HACK FRAUD

>>15484135
I had no idea, damn. What a blunder.

>>15484135
wtf I hate terminator now

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>>15476961
Waitress Sarah is very cute and shouldn't be bullied.

She deserves a nice boyfriend and a quiet life away from trouble.

>>15476903
>there is no indication that "Terminators" all look like Arnold
Actually during Hicks...I mean Reese's dream we see a terminator attack the base he was at and it looks nothing like Arnold.

>>15477916
>Then in that one shitty Terminator movie set in the future, Salvation, they showed they used Terminator sniffing dogs.
That's seen in the original during Kyle's nightmare. When they let him in the door, he immediately goes over to let the dogs sniff him. They're tipped off that the big bearded dude is a terminator because the dogs bark at him. Also at least one scene in the original showing Arnold's POV as dogs are barking at him, and that scene in T2 about Max/"Wolfie" barking in the background when the T-1000 is talking to Arnold who is impersonating John.

So after the T-3000 where could they realistically go for an antagonistic Terminator to physically fight against?

>>15485057
Maybe some sort of hard-light hologram body shit, I dunno.

Or... fuck it, invisible. Like the Predator.

>>15484044
>>15484054
Well, fuck me. Always count on EU comics to have already used your dumb joke ideas.

>>15476961
>Terminator Gysnysys was such an embarrassment.

Was it ever explained who sent "Pops" back to Sarah Connors childhood?

I have not seen Genesis in months, but from what I remember, it was never answered in the movie, and I don't think the movie ever explained why the asian T-1000 was there, other than "Hey guys, remember the liquid metal Terminator from T2? Here's another one, you nostalgia fucks"

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>>15485057
See you aren't thinking outside of the box here.

In 2045, Skynet harnesses the power of the human brain to create the T-Ψ: psychometric quantum brainwave mnemonic egregore tulpa construct demon that can control people's mind and exists on a conceptual level at all points of the time-space continuum simultaneously and is powered by the souls of dead Irishmen and is programmed to curse the Connor bloodline over a thousand generations.

And then everyone shoots at it with a gun.

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>>15476903
>infiltration units
They why make it look like a Large McHugebuff man? If an Arnold-looking stranger with a phased plasma rifle in hand knocks on my bunker door, I certainly wouldn't open it.

>>15488525
to be fair he really did look like a chingchow agent dogget

>>15477321
It really boils down to fighting style and tactics. For example with 'women's fighting' Miesha Tate did beat Holly Holms even though Holms had a 4'' reach advantage. Yes, yes, Holms specialized in kickboxing, but she can throw a punch too. And it's not like watching Ronda Rousy who's brilliant strategy is to take punches to the face repetitively as she walks up to her opponent to do a take down and arm bar, and hope the girl she's fighting isn't smart enough to also keep her distance and stay out of grapples.

>>15488607
Isn't T-300 like that on some levels because it uses NANOMACHINES to rewrite the DNA of humans to make them terminators?

>>15483834
Also it allows the T-1000 to get into information networks not normally privy to civilians to hunt their target.

>>15478605
Got to go with this, I didn't bother to see anything about Genesis (or however it's spelled) except knowing Arnold was in it. So when Sarah Connor appeared, my first thought was 'Why is Sarah Connor a 14 year old?' In all seriousness. How old was Sarah Connor supposed to be in 1984 again?

>>15489108
19.

>>15489192
>19
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRJFvtvTGEk

>>15488677
>They why make it look like a Large McHugebuff man?
The Terminator frames are mass produced, and the shape of the body is already pretty big, so it's easier to just layer a buffman over it. We see the later models slimming down and becoming better at infiltrating with the T-1000 and the T-X, leading up to the 3000 nanomachines son.

I get the feeling Terminator 1 was unique because he's a walking action hero stereotype used as the monster for a horror movie.

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>>15483933
I don't know how "canon" the T2 book is; it's based on Cameron's screenplay. There's a chapter that mentions human victories had begun to outpace Skynet's manufacturing capabilities. It doesn't say why some of the T-800's were sent into combat without their organic skin, but one could theorize that human unpredictability and tactics had caught Skynet unprepared and it needed to send some of them out to defend or hold an area on short notice. A character does encounter a T-800 with human skin; what gives it away is that it is wearing a guerrilla armband, but of the wrong color.

I've only seen the first 3 Terminator movies but I don't think they used these other two Skynet designs: the Centurion in pic related and small centipede bombs called Silverfish.

>>15484069
There's a fansite made by a Mr. Shields that makes a good faith effort to expand on Skynet's future war. He proposes a T-600-G variant designed for psychological warfare. As Skynet started to lose the war it began trying anything it could to keep humans at bay; and the 600-G is left to free roam where it can ambush and slaughter human prey, instilling fear whenever it can.

http://www.goingfaster.com/term2029/

>>15476903
>In the original, there is no indication that "Terminators" all look like Arnold. That's a retcon

Not a retcon. In the original movie, Kyle Reese specifies that it's a "Model 101" indicating that there's a whole production line of the 800 Series that look like Arnold.

>>15478681
oh man this, to a painful degree

>>15476961
Linda Hamilton's T2 Sarah Conner is one of the best renditions of a female heroine in the action genre so she set a very high bar to begin with.

I haven't seen TSCC, but I hear Cersei did a pretty good job.

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>>15489541
There's a chance that Model 101 doesn't refer to the body or facial type. Maybe it's a revision or update to the chassis, like the military uses terms like mod and block to denote equipment updates.

>>15483850
>They'd get interrupted by time traveling terminator xenomorphs and then team up to take them down.
The Alien vs Predator game from 1999 actually has cyborg xenomorphs armed with a predator plasma caster. They're called "xenoborgs".

>>15489575
That's a hard point to defend since the only way Kyle was able to identify it as a Terminator was by noting its body type and facial features.

>>15489579
Ugh, I remember hiding behind some crates watching the Xenoborg's laser sweep around the room. The marine campaign still scares me, partly because the Xenos are so fast. You get a blip on the motion tracker, then comes the skittering and screeching sounds. Switch to the image intensifier when it closes in and hope it doesn't run up the wall and swipe my head off from the ceiling.

>>15489586
You mean from the first movie right? He waited for the Terminator to make a move on Sarah in Tech Noir, before that he wasn't sure. "I had to wait 'till he moved on you before I could zero him."

You bring up a good point: in T2 Arnold states he's a Model 101. How did Kyle in T1 and the Resistance know that? Intercepted Skynet communications, or a captured production facility? Maybe after they took Skynet down they found documentation, but if the model number described a specific face/body, wouldn't Kyle have known who to look for? I wonder if Cameron or the script writers have put out some kind of Terminator companion guide that might explain things a little better.

>>15489621
The time portal the Resistance used was the same one used by Skynet to send the terminator back in the first place. There could have been a computer or something nearby that said what went through.

>>15489621
To be fair, Kyle had not yet come face to face the Terminator before the club scene. He waited until the guy that looked like a 101 to pull a gun on Sarah to make sure that he wasn't going to blast his shotgun at someone who just matches the profile of a 101.

As for getting info, there are numerous ways it could have happened. Surely the human resistance would have downed at least one of them and then hacked into the onboard system. Or they could just hacked one of Skynet's information banks at some point. Or they could have had this information before Skynet became self-aware and Judgement Day.

>>15476983
It's almost like people prefer coherence to random ideas arbitrarily thrown together.

>>15489453
That guy's idea of Skynet's core defence network is always a fun bit of fanfic to read.

>>15489653
As a matter of fact, the first scene of Genisys was always kinda canon. The resistance had actually defeated Skynet or captured their main facility or whatever, went inside, and found "Oh shit, they have a time portal and just used it"

Of course, John knew anyway because T1 is a closed loop/predestination paradox and he was raised with knowledge of the future. When he sent Kyle back, he knew he was sending his father to conceive him.

>>15490981
>because T1 is a closed loop/predestination paradox and he was raised with knowledge of the future

To which you might ask "Well then doesn't John remember exactly what 101 models look like?"

Well...that's the problem with Terminator continuity. T1 is a self-contained causality loop, remember that Kyle tells her, she'd be the one who taught her son to fight, which doesn't make sense if she'd originally stayed a waitress. It has to be that John was ALWAYS raised by a Sarah who had fought a Terminator, his dad was ALWAYS Kyle, the time travel didn't change history, it was always part of history...

...but the events of T2 break the loop, they weren't supposed to happen. Which doesn't make sense because nothing in the future changed to make them send the T-1000, we're supposed to assume it always happened that way.

Kinda weird since we generally think of the point when the franchise stopped making sense as when Cameron left but it turns out even he couldn't make up his mind on whether or not "no fate" is bullshit.

So anyway, if T1 was the only movie, then you'd have a John who only knew what the 101 looks like from his mother's descriptions of...a tall buff guy with dark hair.

>>15490959
Yeah, although some of the stuff he thinks up for Skynet's arsenal have me going "come on, really?" It's almost too well thought out and there's no way a human Resistance could counter it. I did like his interpretation of how Skynet thought, planned, and kept records. It would be in a format humans could barely comprehend. His Skynet reminded me of Fred Saberhagen's Berserkers, especially how they would record people's words then create new sentences and play them back to other humans.

>>15491058
One occasion where Captain Janeway offers a wise opinion. "My advice about making sense of time travel? Don't even try."

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One thing I noticed is that Reese's account of why Skynet took over and Arnold's explanation in T2 are actually pretty different. In T1 Kyle claims Skynet just concluded on it's own to wipe out mankind but in T2 Skynet was acting in self defense when faced with shutdown and actually tricked Russia into nuking the whole world. So what if Skynet had been left alone?

Funny thing, Cameron now claims that the reason Skynet invented time travel is that it regretted nuking the world and intended to give the humans a way to retroactively win.

>>15478681
That's more of the fault of Plus and 7 coming out at around the same time expanding the possibilities of what music in the Macross-verse could do forcing everything after to escalate more than anything

>>15492139
alternatively, this
https://youtu.be/YkMaxdhzzMw

>>15476903
This happened hardcofe with Dirty Harry. Harry says THE LINE in the first movie but I guess they wanted a catchphrase so clint awkwardly says it at least once per movie.

>>15492884
I like the idea that the Terminator series isn't so much a time loop as a helix, jumping to a new reality each time. It's an easy way to reconcile the differences.

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>>15493530
This is the Magnum 747. The most powerful gun in existence. It can stop a charging herd of bulldozers dead in its tracks with a single bullet. So make a move, punk!

>>15493038
Looks good, I'll have to rent it sometime.

Trying to contribute: Is the whole current Terminator franchise an example of a cool thing (the first one or two movies) happening, and then people (movie execs and producers) remember the cool thing but forget the context? So then movies appear later without context because they were popular. Sorry that's probably modern movies 101.

Anybody happen to have a copy of that post by someone who was apparently hired to write a script for one of the later Terminator movies? They talk about the oddball requests and revisions the higher-ups wanted to add and change to the script.

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Robert Patrick's T-1000 is still the coolest movie monster ever.

>>15478681
I love macross, but plus and parts of 30 show that there's so much they can focus on outside songstresses.
Just the development behind various VFs would be cool to see.

>>15493038
If I liked Twelve Monkeys and All You Zombies would you recommend Looper?

>>15494358
Depends.

What did you like about 12 Monkeys?

>>15494368
It might be quicker to list what I didn't like about Twelve Monkeys.

>>15494358
Looper isnt a Terry Gillian movie so no

>>15494358
I would recommend Looper generally, but it's not very Twelve Monkeys. It's definitely not very Gilliam-ey.

>>15493038
>assassinate people from the future for a living
>be sent your older self
>actually WANT to kill him instead of trying to fucking change your own future.

I never understood how that was supposed to make a lick of fucking sense.

>>15495922

>I never understood how that was supposed to make a lick of fucking sense.

Three reasons:

The Future Mafia was never going to stop hunting Young Joe until Old Joe was dead.

Young Joe was explicitly written to be a dipshit who didn't have his act together and only thought about the short-term. It's implied that hitting rock-bottom and eventually being found by his Asian waifu is what helped him mature.

It's basically stated that everyone initiated into the Looper program was young and dumb, and you only took the job if you cared more about being young and rich for the short-term instead of living a full life.

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>>15478861
>As a horror design? Maybe Screamers, though that's more from a conceptual standpoint than a pure mechanical design one. The T-800's really damn good.
Screamers were actually scarier the LESS they took after Terminators, once they start copying people it was inevitable that the "THEY HAVE BECOME US" twist would happen.

>>15483850
>They'd get interrupted by time traveling terminator xenomorphs and then team up to take them down.
Oh man, those guys are ASSHOLES!
>>15492884
>In T1 Kyle claims Skynet just concluded on it's own to wipe out mankind but in T2 Skynet was acting in self defense when faced with shutdown and actually tricked Russia into nuking the whole world. So what if Skynet had been left alone?
DO NOT BULLY THE SKYNET!!!

>>15496792
Yeah, I was thinking of early screamers. Sawblade to the face is legitimately unsettling.

>>15494063
I'm interested in that post now too, hearing about it

>>15495922
Killing your future self is the job with the biggest pay and your pretty much set for the remainder of your life until the Time Mafia comes to get you to send you back so that your past self will kill you.

The reason why the Time Mafia do it that way is to tie up loose ends. Loopers are basically hired hitmen who kill and dispose of the bodies of people that the Mafia wants to have disappear in their own time. The loopers' victims are still technically alive in their time so nobody is going to come looking for them and by the time anybody notices that the victims are gone in their own time, they would have already been dead for years. Same applies to the loopers themselves and therefore the connections to all their other murders before being killing their future selves. It's not unlike hiring a second hitman to kill your first hitman after he finishes the job you paid him for. The goal is to have eliminate or at least make difficult to string the evidence that would connect the murders to the Mafia.

>>15496960
>Yeah, I was thinking of early screamers. Sawblade to the face is legitimately unsettling.
That and they're fucking tiny robotic Graboids...
Fuck man, it's like Jaws and water, EXCEPT WITH ANY GROUND THAT ISN'T SOLID!
>>15495922
>>actually WANT to kill him instead of trying to fucking change your own future.
>I never understood how that was supposed to make a lick of fucking sense.
>>15496541
>The Future Mafia was never going to stop hunting Young Joe until Old Joe was dead.
>>15498530
>Killing your future self is the job with the biggest pay and your pretty much set for the remainder of your life until the Time Mafia comes to get you to send you back so that your past self will kill you.
>The reason why the Time Mafia do it that way is to tie up loose ends. Loopers are basically hired hitmen who kill and dispose of the bodies of people that the Mafia wants to have disappear in their own time. The loopers' victims are still technically alive in their time so nobody is going to come looking for them and by the time anybody notices that the victims are gone in their own time, they would have already been dead for years. Same applies to the loopers themselves and therefore the connections to all their other murders before being killing their future selves.
Plus the the whole REASON the Time Mafia hunts down the younger self is that they can LITERALLY use him to handicap the older self BY MUTILATION!

>It's not unlike hiring a second hitman to kill your first hitman after he finishes the job you paid him for. The goal is to have eliminate or at least make difficult to string the evidence that would connect the murders to the Mafia.
Well that's how the idea is explained to the Loopers anyways, the reality is actually a lot more complicated/stupid...

Wait, there's a 12 Monkeys tv show? I'm not sure how I feel about this.

>>15478681
>what made SDF/DYRL such a special story

You mean nothing?

>>15499279

It's apparently breddy gud.

I don't know much about it other then they turned Brad Pitt's character into a girl and the time-travel stuff apparently goes nuts in the later seasons.

>>15499265
No, I understand the premise perfectly.

I just can't relate to the behavior of the Looper. I'd never agree to "Be rich for...maybe twenty or thirty years, then suicide." Going along with it is the dumbest way to react to knowledge of how you die.

>>15499789
Why not?

Everybody is going to die eventually. It's actually kind of convenient to know when and how so that you can plan accordingly.

>>15492884
Kyle grew up during the war, he even states no one really knew who started it besides only knowing it was a global defence network that went nuts. When the common man's existence is surviving in bombed out basements hiding from killer robots and eating rats for dinner, it's not hard to imagine knowledge not being very far spread.

The T-101 and some other lore out there basically details the SKYNET defence network was brought online, but SAC-NORAD got increasingly anxious as the system was "Learning at a geometric rate" fearing it would become too powerful. There wasn't exactly an off switch so the military had to siege the Cheyenne Mountain complex where SKYNET was located to disable/destroy it, in the process of being attacked SKYNET calculated that people must be it's enemies. In an effort of self-defence and ruthless calculation it launched a full scale nuclear attack of Russia, as the Russian counter-attack would not only destroy its enemies in America but trigger global nuclear war in the confusion to defeat its enemies in other countries.

SKYNET being left alone is anyone's game really, it was meant to be an autonomous aerospace defence system. The Terminators and Hunter-Killers were just a happy accident of having a giant database and network but not being able to fight directly itself.

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>>15483851
*coughs*

>>15499994
It's not of natural causes though, it can be prevented.

>>15501383
We've been preventing death of natural causes since before Galen.

>>15478772
Exactly. As much as people like to tear it apart, people really fail to miss the overt themes of Murphy's depression throughout the first half of the movie, culminating in him giving into Dr. Faxx's programming after she reminds him of the reality of his situation.

It doesn't help that Murphy's development is completely dropped after Cain becomes a cyborg, but the writing doesn't completely reset his characterization.

>>15500863
that's the T-1 million, not 1 billion

>>15501383
Does it really matter how you die?

Of all the thousands of ways to die, is a looper's fate really that bad?

>>15501847
Why would a person who likes their life commit a form of suicide?

>>15502364
Well in the loopers' case, they wouldn't have such a nice life if they didn't suicide in the first place. In a certain way, their suicide is more meaningful as it actually benefits the past version of the themselves.

>>15503270
Okay but imagine you have the ability to get all the good parts of the deal and then weasel out of killing yourself at the end.

Because that's what Willis accidentally getting unmasked before JGL can shoot him is. A chance to cheat your fate.

>>15490959
>>15492139
http://www.goingfaster.com/term2029/skynet.html

this one gets me hard every time i read it.

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>>15503928
Did you not remember the scene about what happens when the mafia guys find out that a looper didn't hold up his end of the deal?

>>15505309
I do, I just think that two of the same guy, with knowledge of the future, changing history to fuck the mafia up is more believable for a sci-fi action movie than the idea that a person would fight against their own self.

>>15488525
They were setting up for a sequel pretty clearly that would have explained where Pops came from.

I subscribe to the theory that it was Skynet that sent Pops back in an effort to fuck up the timeline so badly that it could escape getting killed by John Connor. And it probably worked, since Sarah went into the future to stop Skynet from being created while still a teenager and thus John Connor will have been born too late to stop Skynet now.

>>15507901
Like I said, you're risking having the mafia really fucking your shit up (and probably getting killed anyway) once they find out that there are two of you alive at the same time.

And again, we're all going to die some day. The point of living is to enjoy the time you have.

>>15484795
Shit, camgirl ChloeLewis looks more like a young brunette Linda Hamilton than Emilia Clarke ever will...

>>15505309
How does the the Time Mafia even know if you did/did not kill anyone they sent you? Why not just send the person back to dinosaur times so they're trapped with a bunch of T-Rexes and an asteroid about to hit them?

>>15509271
>How does the the Time Mafia even know if you did/did not kill anyone they sent you?
I guess you are under the assumption that a criminal organization with time travel capabilities has a difficult time keeping tabs on the people they hire. In the movie, the state that the whole reason they send marks back in time is because it was near impossible to hide bodies in their own time implying that it's pretty easy to track people down.

>Why not just send the person back to dinosaur times so they're trapped with a bunch of T-Rexes and an asteroid about to hit them?
I don't recall the movie explaining this, but the time travel operations in the story is probably following popular time travel theories applied in scientific thought experiments and used in other time travel stories. These include
1) You can't time travel to a point before a time machine was built.
2) Wormholes in time have a fixed point.
3) The further back you go, the more energy is needed.

why didn't skynet just sent guns with him inside a meat shell?

>>15509350
>why didn't skynet just sent guns with him inside a meat shell?
Because firearms are easier to acquire in pre-9/11 America. Do you not remember the gun store scene? Literally one-stop shopping for the T-800.

>>15509364
Okay but why not give him a fucking 40 watt plasma rifle

>>15509364
>pre-9/11

*pre-Clinton

>>15483933

Yeah, that's true. The Terminator skeleton was such an iconic design, they had to re-use it. But it's clear from the first film that the Terminators are special cyborg stealth units. They're not the main ground soldiers.

The only other enemies we see are large tanks and flying vehicles. No hint of humanoid ground forces.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96Ahq4NU1E8

>>15509350
they did this in one of the comics.

The terminator hitsquad had a human with them, and they filled his insides with guns.

RE games:

>Red/green/blue/ herbs are local to the Arklay mountains
>later games have these herbs anyways.