Once this new Zaku is mass produced the Federation will

>Big Zam with arms.png
>shudder with fear, feddies

File: Perfect Zeong.jpg (102KB, 512x768px) Image search: [Google]

102KB, 512x768px

Legs -aren't- just for show!

File: MA-04X_Zakrello.jpg (176KB, 455x363px) Image search: [Google]

176KB, 455x363px

>>15457807
Literally a Gundam killer
Those Feds have their days numbered

File: aaaaaaaaaaa.png (372KB, 747x495px) Image search: [Google]

372KB, 747x495px

>>15457822

File: h81_62.jpg (53KB, 527x500px) Image search: [Google]

53KB, 527x500px

DON'T MOCK THE ZOCK

>>15457807
Why don't the Zeeks just make their own Gundam?

>>15457832
they failed miserably in the PR department

File: 1492754976698.png (302KB, 486x400px) Image search: [Google]

302KB, 486x400px

>>15457832
They did.
Why do you think it was called the Zeong? G is for Gundam.
Then they did it a bunch of times.

File: Zeons-gundam.jpg (37KB, 400x400px) Image search: [Google]

37KB, 400x400px

>>15457832

>>15457841
I dunno anon, when you steal someone else's secret formula, you don't call your food the same thing.

File: gundam kits collection001.jpg (170KB, 553x553px) Image search: [Google]

170KB, 553x553px

Just what defines a Gundam?

>>15457850
then how will they know it's as good?

that's like saying nations weren't allowed to call their own ships "dreadnoughts" after they started copying what the dreadnought pioneered

>>15457854
Look at the kit's box. Does it say Gundam? Then it's a Gundam. That's literally it.

>>15457854
Whatever the author feels like

>>15457854
Two eyes, V thing on its forehead, head vulcans, rifle, beam sabre and shield.

File: MSM-04N_Agguguy.jpg (1MB, 2399x2334px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 2399x2334px

Hey guys, what's going on in this thread?

>>15457859
>as good
>not better
This is why you'll never be free of Earth's gravity.

>>15457854
Has the word "Gundam" in it's name.

File: 1396163303840.jpg (209KB, 424x600px) Image search: [Google]

209KB, 424x600px

>>15457868
>V thing on its forehead

Say that to my face motherfucker not online and see what happens

>>15457876
pah, if it can't even be as good, it won't be better

who the fuck even remembers the atmos, or the fact that it gave the F90 an assraping?

>>15457832
Pride.

>>15457807
>Once we mass produce our mobile suits, the Federation will be finished!
>Once the Big Zam is mass produced, the Federation will be finished!
>We would have won if the Gelgoog had been mass produced!

This is what happens when you base your military capacity on crazy prototypes.

File: BuCUE_Tank_Front.png (75KB, 405x320px) Image search: [Google]

75KB, 405x320px

What if Zaku was a Zoid?

File: 1444339473998.jpg (74KB, 720x960px) Image search: [Google]

74KB, 720x960px

We're gonna hit that mobile suit with a jet stream attack!

>>15457904
The Gelgoog is a limited mass production MS. The reason Zeon lost was because of the Gundam's learning computer. At the end of the war both sides had to resort to using trainees but the Feds had the advantage because every GM had Amuro's data in them

File: Battle of A Baoa Qu.jpg (421KB, 1714x780px) Image search: [Google]

421KB, 1714x780px

>>15457904
>Gelgoog

Numbers weren't the problem. It was mass-produced and it was slightly superior to the Gundam. Amuro killed all the veterans, and the people fielded by Zeon towards the end were all greens who despite superior technology couldn't match Amuro's experience or the overwhelming number of GMs.

>>15457919
>greens
It wouldn't have been a problem if they had a learning computer

>>15457875
Is that how an inbred Acguy looks like?

>>15457919
>it was slightly superior to the Gundam
Nope. Other than having the same weapons it was slightly slower and had worse armor than the Gundam. The Gundam trumps the standard Gelgoog, but the B and C type Gelgoogs as well as the Jager would be considered overall better than the RX-78-2.

File: EMS-05_Agg.jpg (559KB, 1636x1336px) Image search: [Google]

559KB, 1636x1336px

>>15457924
Nah, that's what happens when you mix it with a Gouf.
Following this rationale, is an Agg born via Dom crossbreeding?

>>15457919
Zeeks spent too much time making garbage like the Zakrello

>>15457916
I've always viewed the Gelgoog as an analogue to late WW2 axis planes like the ki-84 or me-262; scary performance in combat, but ultimately handicapped by their late introduction.

>>15457936
>worse armor
Not an issue since it was equipped with beam weapons.

>>15457945
It is when the enemies they're fighting are still equipped with machine guns.

>>15457916
Wait the GM could mimic Amuro?

File: Zeon invasion force Jaburo.jpg (184KB, 920x604px) Image search: [Google]

184KB, 920x604px

>>15457938
Crazy prototypes are like Zeon's eagle standard. They couldn't go into battle without them

>>15457936
The Gelgoog could maintain atmospheric flight through sheer thrust alone, which the Gundam couldn't. I'm fairly certain that the Gelgoog has a higher thrust comparative to its mass.

>>15457946
Weren't the GMs all using beam scatter guns by the end of the war?

>>15457948
Yes. The Gundam's learning computer data could be and was applied to most all GMs, giving green pilots a leg up until they could develop experience.

>>15457946
The feds had one gundam whike the zeeks had over a hundred gelgoogs. Also how much better was the Zeong compared to the Gundam

>>15457948
The GM was developed using the data from the Gundam's learning computer. Thus an inexperienced pilot was able to draw from the data gathered by Amuro. A very important advantage when facing the (overall) more experienced Zeon forces.

>>15457954
None of those are prototypes. They're all full production models

File: Geze.jpg (889KB, 1746x2171px) Image search: [Google]

889KB, 1746x2171px

You can't shoot it in the cockpit if the cockpit can move! It's genius!

>>15457966
The Zeong completely outclassed the Gundam. Char just lost because Amuro was practically invincible by A Boa Qu.

>>15457948
In CDA it shows that the GMs have pre-programmed evasive maneuvers they can use based on Amuro's own piloting skill.

>>15457968
>>15457975
So the Federation would have been fucked if Zeon beat the Gundam before the White Base made it to Jaburo?

>>15457980
Definitely. There's a reason why Federation HQ kept letting Zeon chase the White Base around.

>>15457948
Sort of, but not really. What data the Federation received was just part of when Amuro was just starting to become really skilled. It can be said that the GMs were improved because of the data, but not that they were pulling off any maneuvers that could be mistaken for Amuro's own movements.

In some manga, there are GMs loaded with data recovered from Amuro's core fighter at the end of the OYW and they do manage to do some decently impressive maneuvers, but it's not like the pilots were on cruise control and let the machine do the fighting for them. That and the system wasn't perfectly able to reproduce Amuro's proficiency in all areas, just certain maneuvers.

>>15457956
>The Gelgoog could maintain atmospheric flight through sheer thrust alone, which the Gundam couldn't. I'm fairly certain that the Gelgoog has a higher thrust comparative to its mass.
Source? Mark Simmons has had some theories about it, I think they settled on the standard Gelgoog not having more than a 1.0 thrust to weight ratio while Char's Gelgoog and the B and C types did.

http://www.mechatalk.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=15361
http://www.mechatalk.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=15775

>Weren't the GMs all using beam scatter guns by the end of the war?
According to 0079 yes, but GMs having machine guns and bazookas have been showing up more in other media.

>>15457980
Yeah the learning computer saved the day

>>15457980
Maybe? Something that gets glossed over in OYW material is that the GM was a pretty beastly machine compared to the Zaku II, basically being a Gundam that had been simplified for ease of maintenance and production. The vast majority of their mobile suit forces were still Zakus right up to the end, and the Federation held a hefty lead in traditional firepower on the ground, as is evidenced by Odessa.
desu it would have been a toss up. The Federation had General Revil, so they might have been able to hack it.

>>15457989
There's also Crossbone Amurowanking with the Amakusa

>>15457966
This isn't an imaginary fight between Amuro's single RX-78-2 against all MS-14A units ever built, you know.

This thread tangent came out of the "what if Zeon mass produced more Gelgoogs" line of discussion. Why wouldn't it matter if Gelgoogs can be taken down by machine gun fire when GMs had machine guns? Part of the reason why the Gundam was so great was because of the durability in the first place.

>Also how much better was the Zeong compared to the Gundam
It's a better mobile armor but a worse mobile suit.

>>15457968
By the time the GM and Gelgoogs were deployed en mass, both sides were already lacking skilled pilots.

>>15457998
Revil died with Degwin when Gihren used the colony laser

>Let's develop eccentric prototypes that suck
>Let's waste a lot of resources chasing the Trojan Horse and the Gundam
Zeeks were retarded

>>15458013
They did lose a good chunk of their pilots by doing that but to bevfair the Gundam was pretty much a god during the first half of 0079. I'm not sure how the gouf and the dom are compared to it though

File: gm fights space nazi.jpg (584KB, 3020x2133px) Image search: [Google]

584KB, 3020x2133px

>>15458001
>both sides were already lacking skilled pilots.
Which is why I said
>(overall) more experienced
Even if they were lacking in actual skilled pilots, they still would have had more experience with training and preparing pilots for mobile suit combat. You do have a point though, what with it seeming that pilots were simply being pushed into mobile suits and shot out into battle by the war's end.

>>15458021
The only mobile suit the zeeks developed that had performance comparable to the Gundam was the Gelgoog, and that was deployed too late in the war to have much impact. For comparison, the Gelgoog was slightly better than the GM, which outstripped most other zeek suits in terms of raw performance.

>>15457904
I can't believe Dozle thought the Big Zam would end the war if it was mass produced. I mean it's good for the fact that it tested out stuff like I-fields but on its own it's a pretty shit mobile armor

>>15458013
I mean, look at their historical inspiration:
>Lets make giant tanks that break down if they roll into a ditch
>Commission fur coats and bizarre carrying hooks for infantry uniforms
>Make brand new jet interceptors do CAS
>Strap more shit to the Pz. IV
>Conscript your boy scouts for fun and profit
>Strap more shit to the BF 109
>Sink valuable resources into developing cruise missiles
>Have no way to accurately target cruise missiles
>Strategic bombing is for chumps
>Strap more shit to the FW 190
>Have a direct line of communication between individual naval raids and your dumbass chancellor
>Strap more shit to your armed children

Nazis are dumb even when they aren't in space.

>>15458028
So the reason Amuro had trouble with the Gouf was because of Ramba Ral and that he wasn't as good a pilot back then?

>>15458035
Zeon represents imperial Japan though

>>15458032
Dozle was basically a giant child. He's never shown to actually be all that great of a commander, and he puts entirely too much faith in indivdual units and Zeon pride.

All of the Zabis, with the exception of Ghiren and Degwin, are either insane or just idiots.

>>15458038
Yes. That's kind of the point of the "this isn't just Zaku + 10" thing, which just builds on top of char's "superior MS doesn't make superior pilot" schtik

>>15458032
It was doing pretty well until Sleggar sacrificed himself

>>15458048
The Big Zam only works for 20 minutes

>>15458045
Garma was an okay commander. Kyclia was stupid for keeping Char around after she found out he was Casval

File: 1476801307900.jpg (338KB, 751x863px) Image search: [Google]

338KB, 751x863px

>>15458038
Definitely. By the end of the series, the Gundam is actually kind of a hindrance to Amuro since his reactions are too fast for it to handle. Even more, at the end of the series he's fighting suits that are comparable to his own, so you really get a sense of how much he's grown as a pilot.

>>15457827
It hurts to watch that episode. I pity the pilot

>>15458044
>Starting a war outside of mainland Asia
>Expecting to win
>What are self-sealing fuel tanks?
>You don't need to sink any American aircraft carriers don't be stupid
>Strapping anti-tank mines to your soldiers because you never bothered to make anti-tank weapons.
>Losing battles to Australians
>Submarine aircraft carriers
>Starting a war with America when you have no industrial capacity.
>Zeroes
>Why would a plane ever need to be fast?
>Having to copy German designs because you can't make shit that doesn't catch on fire.
>Strategic bombing is for chumps, redux.
>Wait no never mind Tokyo is on fire.
>Not defending your supply lines

Violent nationalists is all the same

>>15458069
>tfw you're in a MA so disliked your commanding officer disses it postmortem -in show-

>>15458066
He literally starts burning out the joints in its arms because he's too good for the Gundam. Federation engineers had to work out a magnetic coating to force him to stop continuously breaking the damn thing.

>>15458063
In another world, Degwin sued for peace before shit got too bad and Garma got the happy ending he deserved.

File: 1446424674126.jpg (29KB, 191x297px) Image search: [Google]

29KB, 191x297px

>>15458070
>I accidentally a Nanking
>I accidentally a Sydney

>>15458054
That makes Sleggar's sacrifice worthless

You know it would be nice to get an OVA from the perspective of a Ball pilot.

>>15458091
Why would you want a ten second OVA?

File: 20170322213838.jpg (91KB, 800x603px) Image search: [Google]

91KB, 800x603px

>>15457807

File: 1476670608270.png (1MB, 960x720px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 960x720px

>>15458095
Takes some to fly one.

>>15458102
bless the great onion

>>15457807
Gm > Zaku

File: 1416022250313.gif (2MB, 320x240px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 320x240px

>>15458091
Just look up any soccer goal replay, and imagine an explosion at the end.

>>15458021
The Gouf and Dom were both strong enough to threaten the Gundam. It's only really immune to Zaku machineguns which weren't standard load out on those MS.

>>15458035
You do understand that you don't understand what will be the best line of technology to follow correct? I'm sure if it hadn't worked out then you would have nuclear bombs listed here as well. You try all sorts of random shit during war because you never know what will be your silver bullet and give you the edge.

>>15457919
Where are the balls in this image?

>>15458971
>Counting balls as part of your forces
They're just there to hopefully distract the enemy from actually useful stuff anon.

>>15457882
Not a gundam.

A dolled up GM.

>>15458000
The Amakusas were different in that their "pilots" were made specifically to receive and channel Amuro's skills in piloting.

>>15457807
I will never not love the way the Zakus are drawn in 08th MS team. Goddamn it really has that real robot look to them, even if the story is just Romeo and Juliet.

>>15458035
>Strap more shit to the Pz. IV
>Strap more shit to the BF 109

>Upgrading the vehicles that you have the largest number of to be better in literally every way besides cost to produce, which is still far cheaper than making entirely new vehicles

What's wrong with this?

The Germans should've done more of this, the Panther tank was nice but two Panzer IVs with sloped armor probably could've been built for every Panther, in the late war Germany needed a lot more tanks to deal with the massive hoards of T-34s and Shermans.

>>15459269
Out turned by turn fighters, put sped by speed fighters

File: MSVR_-_RB-79F_Ball_Type_F.jpg (251KB, 694x1024px) Image search: [Google]

251KB, 694x1024px

>>15458797
>>15459155
What a poor attitude.

>>15458032

I'm pretty sure Dozle assumed refinements would be made to it before it rolled out.

Also, other than it's operation time, what's really wrong with it?

My understanding is that unless it finds itself in melee (which would be the fault of it's pilots and the Zeon commander issuing it orders) it could go through an entire army without suffering so much as a scratch.

Even better, the Big Zam didn't need any New Types to make it effective.

>>15459887
It has no maneuverability whatsoever.

>>15459887
With the I-field on, it's still vulnerable to rockets and missiles. When the I-field is off, it's vulnerable to everything. The I-field only lasts 20 minutes, which is pretty short as large scale battles are supposed to go on for hours. Really, the Big Zam needs to either plow through the enemy or withdraw under the 20 minute protective I-field time limit, or it needs the support of friendly troops to keep enemies from bearing down on it.

Call it dramatic writing as to why the Feds never attacked it with anything other than beams, just so Sleggar could crash into it and then have Amuro finish it up close with a beam sabre. I can see the Biz Zam being effective a few times for the shock value of it, but once the Federation learns the weakness, then they'll just toss missiles and rockets at it all day, which it can't exactly evade well for long given how large and slow it is.

>>15459887
The I-field only protected against beam rounds. After the first battle against mass-produced Big Zams you'd see GMs being equipped with napalm or other weapons better suited to penetrating the armor. Napalm would be especially effective since it would further exacerbate the Big Zam's overheating problems that were the cause of its time limit.

And that's assuming they were identical to the original. The actual MP Big Zam ditches the I-Field to reduce the heat problems and reduce costs, replacing it with anti-beam coating which is well established to be useless.

>>15459910

How do we know the Big Zam's armor can't withstand regular ordnance?

I remember the Zock being so heavily armored that solid ordnance fired from tanks could do little to it. I imagine the Zam could be much the same.

Plus, with it's range and the fact no one would be stupid enough not to have the thing supported, I imagine it'd be very difficult to actually get a GM close enough to make use of any solid ordnance.

>>15459903

What would it even need that for?


>>15459909

>Call it dramatic writing as to why the Feds never attacked it with anything other than beams

I don't think they even had anything other than beams.

I think a few of the Balls might have been the exception, but I believe they either couldn't get close enough to use them without being destroyed or they just bounced off the armor.

>>15459942
Even if heavily armored, there's only so much punishment it can take, and the Federation can usually deploy enough units and missile/rocket ordinance in numbers to make it happen.

If for whatever reason they can't launch enough conventional ordinance at it, then it becomes a race. Eliminate the Big Zam's support before it eliminates the Federation forces. And/or withstand the 20 minutes until beams are effective on it again.

>>15459956
The GM has Hyper Bazookas identical to the Gundam's, they just didn't have them equipped or use them for whatever reason. Given the bazookas are specifically designed for dealing with armored targets and there's a lot of them, I find it unlikely the Big Zam could endure a sustained barrage.

>>15459961
>>15459981


> and the Federation can usually deploy enough units and missile/rocket ordinance in numbers to make it happen.

> there's a lot of them

Yes, but what volume would that feasibly take?

It's my understanding that the thing could destroy an army on it's own, meaning if it actually takes that to undo Big Zam, that the Federation has suffered a loss that could very well cost them the battle.

>>15460027
It's about a lot more than one battle.

The first time there's a battle with the Big Zam, it'll wreck a bunch of shit and probably win the battle.

The second battle, the Federation will come at it with a strategy and take it out with considerably fewer casualties.

The third battle, they'll refine that strategy and take it out with very few casualties at all.

Dozle thought the Big Zam would change the whole course of the war, and that's what he was wrong about.

>>15460046

>Dozle thought the Big Zam would change the whole course of the war, and that's what he was wrong about.

I agree there.

It may have been A piece in changing the war, but it alone probably wouldn't have made a difference even it had been mass produced and it's flaws worked out.

With Zeon in general, I'm noticing it's never the warmachine that fails the Principality, but those at the controls of it.

And on the subject of that, could the thing even meant to operate in Earth's gravity given it weighed over 2000 tons when loaded up?

>>15460027
>Yes, but what volume would that feasibly take?
Hell if I know, there aren't specific numbers for that kind of thing.

>It's my understanding that the thing could destroy an army on it's own, meaning if it actually takes that to undo Big Zam, that the Federation has suffered a loss that could very well cost them the battle.
The key word here being "if". Even if the Big Zam could take an entire army on its own, it managed to be undone by a single fighter that smashed into it causing it to be stunned, then it was finished off by a beam sabre.

Even if the Big Zam had squads of friendly MS to protect it, there's always the option of taking them out of the fight or otherwise occupying them with the Federation's MS.

While the Big Zam wasn't able to defeat the Feddy fleet by itself at Solomon, it did inflict heavy losses. More than the Federation expected, but not enough to blunt the offensive that would later go on to fight at A Baoa Qu.

>>15460059

>could the thing

*Was the thing

>>15457916
>At the end of the war both sides had to resort to using trainees

no, by abao qu there were literally scores of """"experienced""" GM pilots vs rookies in gelgoogs and doms

>>15457980
>So the Federation would have been fucked if Zeon beat the Gundam before the White Base made it to Jaburo?

no because there would still be 999 other gundam derivatives running around that would have saved the day anyway

>>15458038
Yeah, Ral literally said Amuro was relying on his suit to tank everything, and when he next encountered a gouf it wasn't nearly as big of fight because it wasnt an ace like ral piloting

>>15458797
>ball gets a kill

>>15458070
>losing battles to Australians
HAHAHA

>>15457854
Samurai helmet

And the Zekes fear the samurai

>>15457854
Advanced plot armor plating.

>>15460433
Strange
Since they are muh honrabru samurai

File: T.jpg (98KB, 665x656px) Image search: [Google]

98KB, 665x656px

>>15460456
Trust me it makes sense if you know Japanese politics

>>15459269
The Pz. IV and BF 109 were both prewar machines that flatly did not have the room for additional modernized armament. Fitting additional weapons and larger engines into the 109 turned it into a logistical headache and notorious hangar queen, while the Pz. IV had its poor chassis continuously overloaded in an attempt to make it compete with the Russian and American rank and file.
The later variants of both represent the absolute limits of what each design was capable of.
Mind you, both also had glaring flaws that were never rectified during their service life, and their replacements actually made things worse.

>>15460380
>be member of glorious Imperial Japanese Army
>got a pretty slick tank
>so do a bunch of your buddies
>filthy gaijin go home
>get into fight with dirty Australians on some island
>roll out in all your cool new shit
>you and all your friends get wrecked by a 2 pdr gun and a handful of volunteers

>>15460179
This is arguably why things get kind of "monster of the week" with the newtype weapons and mobile armor near the end of the show; mobile suits and conventional forces were completely unable to touch the White Base crew after a certain point.

>>15460301
>>15458105

>>15458091
The first episode of 08th MS Team is there for you.

>>15457919
There is no way A Baoa Qu involved such few forces as that. There are WW2 battles larger than that.

>>15461572
Wasn't the A Baoa Qu battle bigger than the Loum one?

>>15460487
You mean unlike Tomino. Tomino has as much of an understanding of politics as your typical hollywood actor does.

>>15457807
Those things are surely not Zaku.

>>15457919

Why aren't there any Mobile Armors in that graphic?

I thought Bigros and several other types were at A Baoa Qu?

>>15457919

The Federation didn't even start the OYW with mobile suits (unless we are following The Origin timeline) and tons of their regular pilots were bumped off by Zakus. It's not like the Federation has some giant reserve of experienced MS pilots.

>>15458079
wasn't the whole reason Ghiren shot his father because he was going to go for peace talks with the Federation?
Ghiren as a commander refused a middle ground and was willing to murder those who sought it, i think for the OYW to end in peace you need to oust Ghiren

>>15463326

Yup. Killing Degwin also had the benefit of making Gihren the most powerful Zabi (not that it did him any good lol) but I got the impression that the reason why he did it then was because of Degwin's attempt to reach a peace.

Degwin never came off to me as much of an ideologue. Power-hungry, yes, but not blind to reality. Gihren was power-hungry, fanatical, and deluded. He was so focused on his vision of a Zeon victory and him being the dictator of the Earth Sphere that he didn't recognize what was going on around him. People like to bang on about how Gihren had a super high IQ, but really he was quite blind to reality at times - if he wasn't, he wouldn't have underestimated his own sister.

>>15457969

Wasn't the Zock a Prototype too?

Never saw more than one, unless they were just really rare.

>>15463304
They made a point to pull back their most experienced pilots to serve as instructors for young cadets. The average new Feddy pilot was better trained than the average new Zeon pilot by A Baoa Qu.

>>15463350
Hitler had a high IQ too but he still got his shit pushed in Russia. you might even say that both of their lofty goals and high inelegance is what made them so blind to the shit that would go wrong.
and my impression of Degwin in the series was an old man who was tired of war and tired of fighting. i mean you might even say he was regretting his his hand in what happened to Zeon Deikun in his old age.
i mean what started out as using an ideal to spur on a secession of the space colonies from the earth became a full on war of attrition. though i dont think Degwin himself was ever a believers of Zeon newtype philosophy

>>15463832

Fair. I guess that is a good WWII analogy. The US & UK rotated experienced pilots back to train new ones. The Japanese didn't.

>>15463350
Speaking of Kycilia, if she had survived would she call for peace or haul ass to Axis?

>>15464826
She would be too proud to surrender and negotiate with Feds

that's why she tried to slip away rather than ordering troops to stand down when she was the last remaining highest ranked Zabi.

>>15464218

Not that you mention it, didn't the Nazi warmachine and the Zeon warmahine both suffer a reversal of gains in Eastern Europe and Russia specifically?

File: premium Thick.jpg (305KB, 826x816px) Image search: [Google]

305KB, 826x816px

>>15457909

>>15464218

I have to wonder if Degwin even cared about Gihren.

With his comparison of his own son to one of the most reviled men in history, it seems like he was trying to stir Ghiren away fro whatever he was doing.

Are there any Zeonic suits with a V-fin?

>>15466194
I think that conversation was an effort to steer his unhinged son away from the wrong path, away from this vary obviously dangerous path.
though at the same time i think it wasthat conversation that helped Ghiren make up his mind to kill his father

>>15466557

I thought on some level it was because Degwin also didn't want to lose his remaining son, having lost two earlie in the war and, possibly, a fourth before it.

>>15466221
They stole a Gundam, once.

>>15466744
I find it hilarious that the one that happened to fit Zeon's needs was also the one that best fit their preferred design aesthetics. Thick, rounded legs, ridiculously sized weaponry, and an obviously evil face.

>>15466950

Also one that may have broke the Antactic Treaty, which Zeon was infamous for doing.

>>15466967
Does the Antarctic Treaty apply to all wars or just the One Year War?

Because if the war is over and that was all it applied to then you aren't really breaking it, you're just being an asshole.

>>15466990
Supposedly it carried over after the OYW so no one could use WMDs. But not like Zeon cares. They were going to nuke an entire fucking colony to get rid of one Gundam still in testing in the last days of the war.

>>15467011
Technically that colony was supposed to be unaligned and the Feddie garrison/tests there were a violation of the treaty, but that doesn't really compare to how nuke-happy Zeon gets.

Hell, M'Quve got off scot-free for trying to nuke Federation forces at Odessa.

>>15466990
Some databooks say that a lot of the terms of the Antarctic treaty were carried over to something called the Granada Accords, which are meant to be a more permanent set of laws to cover warfare in the universal century.

Of course, they don't explicitly say what is and isn't covered under the Granada accords anyway. I think it gets mentioned in Zeta once or twice.

>>15466950
It's less funny when you consider that Anaheim Electronics got into the mobile suit business by buying out Zeonic and Zimmad. Or entertain the vague possibility that it was intended to be stolen from the beginning. Not that Gato cares, since he considers it through and through to be a Federation machine.

>>15466990

In Crossbone Vanguard, I remember a Federation commander saying Crux's use of Nukes in orbit was a clear violation of the Treaty, though Crux could ultimately care less.

>>15466721
maybe, probably, but he was also talking to a son that was talking about superior races and super weapons and prolonging a war and conflict that Degiwn was long done with
Degiwn is a fascinating character that we never really got to know

>>15466967
It's really funny that Gato was all furious about the Federation rearming after Zeon had just repeatedly proven that the Antarctic Treaty wasn't even worth the ink used to sign it.
Zeon can vaporize a continent and melt entire colonies, but building a robot with a Really Big Gun is bad, I guess.

>>15467419
Imagine a OYW where Degwin and Revil had both lived.

>>15459168
but it is a gundam

>Zeon doesn't waste the resources and manpower invading Earth.
>Destroys any orbital forces and imposes a blockade around Earth.
>Instead of R&D for special Earth variants MS/MAs it just into other, more useful areas.
>Zeon forces capture the White Base somewhere along the way with the Gundam.

This is how Zeon wins.

>>15467593
well if the show is any indication, it would have ended since that how Ghiren killed both at once, they were meeting for peace talks
though then Ghiren probably would have split off his own "true spacenoid Zeon Loyalist faction" the Titans probably would have eventually probably become their own thing, doubly so since there would probably be earthlings and earthsphere colonists who were pissed off that Zeon was just talked down and that Ghiren faction still exists. so it probably would have spun off into its own war with the no doubt fragile Feddie-Zeek alliance fighting both the fanatic Titans and feirce Ghiren Zeons as they both fight each other and the alliance
sounds like it could be a decent AU

>>15459168

So was the Full Armor Gundam and that task force from Thunderbolt, but they called those Gundams too.

>>15469593
FA gundam, all it's incarnations, as far as I know have been RX-78's.

Also that taskforce, was RX-79s...which I mean I guess you can argue where just tarted up [G] type GM's but yeah.

>>15469598
Shit I'm an idiot, didn't see what you were responding too. Point still kind of stands on the FA-78 though.

>>15457807
Looks dumb.

>>15469598

>RX-78

So just a variant of what they gave Amuro.

>>15472242
Yeah but it's not a dolled up GM.

File: Perfect Zeong.jpg (190KB, 621x900px) Image search: [Google]

190KB, 621x900px

>>15457807

I wonder how mass producing Zeong would have swung the war in their favor.

Standard Zeong, Perfect Zeong and High-Maneuverability Zeong all seem like game changers.

They also seem like the end product of the research into Mobile Suits and Mobile Armors becoming one.

>>15469598

I see.

I thought the Full Armor from Thunderbolt was just a bunch of Ball, GM and Gundam parts that had been turned into a workable design.

>>15461580
>the government is full of adults
>adults are evil
>the government is evil adults
>society is evil adults
>everyone is evil adults
>everyone but me

Looking back and realizing how powerful mega particle cannons are, why didnt Zeon just bombard earth from orbit with their fleets?

>>15473187
>Looking back and realizing how powerful mega particle cannons are, why didnt Zeon just bombard earth from orbit with their fleets?

In 1979 the people that worked on Gundam hadn't had 40 years of retconning and other gimmicks to create a fully coherent future world.
That's why the OYW when looked at from Gundam 0079 looks irrealistic as hell, then as time went on it was "refined" to a more realistic thing. It's just the nature of the beast, storytelling that spans 40+ years.

>>15473187
There's a lot of interference in a thousand kilometers. Even a gun the size of the Nahel Argama's probably wouldn't do much more than give people a sun tan from that far away.

>>15472513
It would depend on how early it came. Remember, a big problem was that Zeon was running out of aces by that point because they wasted them all on Amuro. Even with superior machines, rookies could get fucked up by better pilots.

>>15473035
Nah the thing made of balls is the Atlas.

And it's really just the cockpit, the rest of the balls are joints ripped off of aquatic Zeon designs.

>>15472513
Given the Zeong wasn't even finished by the time of the battle at A Baoa Qu, there really wasn't anything it could have done. If it had been made sooner, it could have done a bit more, but like all other Zeon wunderwaffen it was flawed. A major fault was that the Zeong was too big to fit inside a carrier. It had to be towed by cable, which naturally limits how many a given ship could carry with it.

The remote arms also required a Newtype pilot, and Zeon was severely lacking in those by the end of the OYW. Most pilots wouldn't be able to use some of the Zeong's defining features that made it dangerous.

File: Psycho Zaku.jpg (818KB, 1402x1933px) Image search: [Google]

818KB, 1402x1933px

>>15473511

>The remote arms also required a Newtype pilot

Has that been retconned?

I remember someone mentioning that Billy from Thunderbolt may not have been a New Type, yet he was seen utilizing a Psycommu Zaku during the fighting at A Baoa Qu.

>>15474833
Thunderbolt's author always wanted to write what he wanted over adhering to the UC timeline. Just think of it as an Alt-UC.

The "animated = official" thing referred to whether or not a suit actually exists, anyway. Not how "canonical" a series is.

>>15474958

>Thunderbolt's author always wanted to write what he wanted over adhering to the UC timeline.

Surprisingly, a lot of what he rights seems spot on to how things might be. I didn't start seeing any issues till the South Sea Alliance thing came into being.

>>15475144
There's a bunch of little changes he made that add up throughout the series. For example, every single mobile suit (not just those deployed in the Thunderbolt sector) has those sub-arms and bag joints, GM escape blocks, the early deployment of Gelgoogs (even with non-finalized beam weapons), multiple Zeongs in construction. The Reuse-P is also a bit out there, but it's par for the course with OYW side stories.

>>15475160

>multiple Zeongs in construction.

What's odd about that?

That seems like something that could have happened.

>>15475160
And certain machines looking completely different and having very different proportions to the ones we know, and this isn't a simple art style change, these are way too different for that, but the anime seems to try and make that shit work by turning them into new machines.

Wonder what they'll do to that GM that Io pilots. I remember it had the same name as another GM, so they'll probably rename it or drop it.

>>15475144
SSA is really more of a fracture in the Federation. Remember, the whole thing is just an EU situation and not a single nation state.

The only place he really fucked up is that SEA is Buddhist instead of full on Islam take over.

>>15476265
Mostly that Zeon never really focused on a single MA design and they were supposed to be on their ass in terms of supplies. Remember that only Kycilia cared about Newtype research, and even then she didn't manage to do more than make multiple Psycommu testbeds. The Braw Brow and Elmeth didn't get mass-produced in 0079, so why should we assume that this other prototype was anything but a one-off?

Also that the Zeong is explicitly stated to have been considered incomplete without its legs (even though they were just for show), which makes having a factory line set up questionable. Why did Kycilia set up a factory line to mass-produce incomplete copies of her prototype MA?

>>15467814
>Post OYW cold war
>Zeon and Federation at an uneasy peace
>Ghiren fucks off to axis rock and starts a separate faction of spacenoid hardliners
>Char busts Amuro out of house arrest and convinces Bright to saddle up for one last hurrah
>Have to stop Ghiren's faction from inciting another full-scale war.

This could have been Zeta

>>15473187
Minovsky radiation has a scattering effect on particle beams. That could be half-remembered bullshit, though.
Alternatively, it could have been that they wanted to take the Earth with its infrastructure intact.
Not everyone wants to end up like the Northern states after the American Civil War. Dragging economic dead weight around isn't fun.

>>15476321

>Why did Kycilia set up a factory line to mass-produce incomplete copies of her prototype MA?

Maybe the legs were going to be added last or moved into the area once the Zeongs were elevated to a point where they could be added?

>MA

Now is the Zeong really a Mobile Armor? I've been told it's a Mobile Suit, but I'm finding that harder and harder to believe given a completed one is over 400 tons and uses Mobile Armor weapons like the Wire mounted ones.

>>15476309

>full on Islam take over.

They probably didn't want to step on any toes. I remember something related to Islam and terrorism being why the events of Unicorn seen on the screen were edited from those seen in the Manga.

Also, are Buddhist exempt from the mandatory "move people to space" thing that happened to most of Earth's population?

>>15476355
>2/3 of the way through the show, fighting in a debris field near Axis
>Amuro's Dijeh Space Type is disabled by a glancing beam shot
>Char intercepts a bazooka round headed for him at the last moment, is critically wounded by shrapnel
>back on the ship, Char's bleeding out
>with his dying breath he absolves Amuro of killing Lalah and sees her beckoning him to the afterlife, not clear if it's Newtype shit or a hallucination
>Beyond The Time plays; it's the new ED
>next episode, the Hyaku Shiki is repaired and upgraded into the Delta Gundam which Amuro pilots for the rest of the show
>tfw this never happened

>>15476887
>Maybe the legs were going to be added last or moved into the area once the Zeongs were elevated to a point where they could be added?
I'm just trying to get at the fact that there's a production line while the most complete Zeong has no legs. It would've made sense for the first one to have been completed (because remember, it's still an untested prototype) and then the production line set up, but as things are it seems a bit odd to me.

>>MA
I got confused and kept referring to the Zeong as an MA. Zeong's an odd case though; it's descended from other prototype Psycommu MS, but within 0079 (as it was on-air) the only Psycommu weapons are MAs. Also like you said it's fuckhuge.

>>15477017

That is a good point now that you mention it.

However, what if they were building several Zeong variants to test which of them was the most efficient to mass produce?

Like a regular one with legs, one without legs that has high maneuverability systems, etc.

Also, does that A Baoa Qu scene in the manga take place before or after Char sorties to confront Amuro?

>>15476930
>>tfw this never happened
Because it's garbage

>>15475160

>The Reuse-P

Is that superior to the Psycommu system?

>>15478026
I'd say so, but it's debatable. Early Psycommu gives you the ability to use funnels and bits, which as you know are incredibly dangerous beam weapons. The downside is that Psycommu needs a Newtype to work, because Newtype brainwaves are able to transfer information even under heavy Minovsky interference, and Newtypes are generally uncommon.

The Reuse-P device allows a pilot to control their mobile suit as if they were moving their own body, and a souped-up Zaku equipped with it was able to match the Full Armor Gundam. The Reuse-P requires quadruple amputees to properly function, with the pilot's prosthetics plugging into the mobile suit as direct interfaces. The real versatility of the Reuse-P system comes from allowing an army to turn its amputees (who previously would have been considered invalid or given prosthetics and recognized as "lower-tier" soldiers) into top-class pilots. This makes it far more practical for mass-production; you don't need to wait for a Newtype to appear or try the messy business of creating a Cyber-Newtype, you just saw off some schmuck's limbs and then you've got yourself an ace.

>>15478296

You know, I have to question if Zeon would go as far as to implement mass production of the Reuse-P system.

I know they've done worse, but I notice many of the people discussing it in the OVA were unnerved by the idea of it becoming common place and it's very existence when the requirements for it are considered, including the woman whose work was behind it.

Almost as if it was a line that shouldn't have been crossed.

>>15458045

Where does history stand on Dozle as far as warcrimes go? I remember him remarking bitterly he was on the hook for them, yet I don't recall him every doing anything remotely heinous on screen.

Unless he was like Cima in that regard.

>>15480786
Well, I mean he single handedly piloted a weapon of mass destruction that killed hundreds of federations pilots (and battleships if I remember correctly). Obviously its war, and what not, but I mean he's the one physically giving the orders, and pulling the trigger, and making the decisions.

I mean depending on your interpretation, the Battle of Loum is a pretty bad situation 'war crimes' wise. Its one thing having a fleet to fleet battle, but I once the mobile suits engaged, that's just a slaughter.

CAN'T YOU SEE THAT YOU ARE SWEET

>>15480803

I assumed by "warcrimes" they meant some of the more heinous stuff that happened at Sides 1, 2 and 4.

>>15480786
He's probably talking about the early part of the OYW where the Zeeks used poison gas, nukes, and dropped the colony on Earth.

After all, 0083 retconned the gassing into a more limited event that happened to be blamed entirely on Cima's marines. Before that it was commonly known that Zeeks used gas, like in Zeta where the Titans are considered to be evil like the Zabis for using poison gas.

>>15458971
See all the white space?

There's your answer.

>>15463445
I think I read somewhere that they made about 3 of them.

>>15461572
>>15461575
>>15463140
that chart pretty much only shows what was there based on materials that came out before we started getting all the OYW side stories, including that stuff adds in multiple variants of pretty much every space MS that Zeon and the Federation had, plus at least a dozen Mobile Armors(multiple Bigros & Zakrellos, at least two Braw Bros, the Big Rang, the Brawrello, and possibly even an Elmeth)

>>15457980
>So the Federation would have been fucked if Zeon beat the Gundam before the White Base made it to Jaburo?
way I see it, the Zeong would have probably been able to destroy enough of the Federation's forces that at the very least Zeon would have been able to hold the line

>>15458070
>Starting a war outside of mainland Asia
don't forget starting a land war in Asia, that's just as bad

>>15466744
twice if we count Thunderbolt and them capturing the remains of the Full Armor Gundam

>>15475160
>multiple Zeongs in construction
that one is actually canon, don't remember the exact source but I do believe at least one source as far back as the 80's brings it up

>>15476321
>The Braw Brow and Elmeth didn't get mass-produced in 0079
actually there were two Braw Bros in Original Gundam(both anime and Origin), and a third shows up in Space To The End of A Flash, also at least one or two other Elmeths show up in side materials

>>15478296
worth Mentioning that Daryl is probably a Newtype, he definitely does seem to experience a proper Newtype Flash at the end of the first season of the anime

File: Elmeth.jpg (180KB, 650x627px) Image search: [Google]

180KB, 650x627px

>>15482751

>Elmeth

Are girl the only ones who can pilot those or something?

I have not seen one to date that wasn't being used by a female New Type.

I think I even remember one that was being used by what appeared to be a female version of Amuro, as trippy as that is.

>>15482751

Did Zeon get to keep any of those Mobile Armors when the war ended?

>>15484515
there is a man piloting one in thunderbolt.

>>15487246
Nope. According to Zeta and whatnot, they only got to keep Zakus and Rick Doms. If the side stories count then maybe a few Gelgoogs.

>>15487690
Don't you mean a Psyco Zaku? Billy was using that, but I don't remember an Elmeth.

>>15487735

So any Mobile armors of any kind, they weren't allowed to keep and had to turn them over?

>>15457832
By the time the Dom was made, they actually had a relatively powerful mobile suit to rival the RX-78-2 in some respects.
However, they always lacked beam technology advanced enough to be self-sufficient at mega-particle generation outside of their aquatic MS (which cheated a little like the Federation MS; if the Gundam used pre-charged beam weaponry to get around not needing to make its own Minovsky particles, Z'gok and its friends had powerful generators that just overheated like fuck unless they were near a water source to use for coolant). As well, Zeon lacked access to Luna Titanium so they could give their MS the nifty armor that shrugged off essentially all solid projectile weapons that weren't bazookas/missles/RPGs used in the OYW.

>>15457807
Anybody else get a little bit of their autism triggered when a monoeye has a weird bridge right in the middle of the visor? I still like the Zaku I, Barzam, & Zeong but if your unit has only 1 eye why would you want the default forward position to be obstructed?

>>15489812

I assumed that was for, should one side be damaged, the other is still functional.

>>15457854
G.U.N.D.A.M. Operating System

>>15457868

The Queen Mansa had all of that didn't it?

File: Psyco-dual.jpg (198KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

198KB, 1280x720px

>>15457868

Both Psycho Gundams fall short then don't they ?

I don't recall either of them having any beam sabers and the second one didn't even have a shield.

>>15457832

Well, they did.

It's called a Gelgoog.

>>15495631
The Mk II had beam sword emitters in its wrists. It also did have a shield, albeit a blocky one

>>15491884
>he doesn't know

File: 62663953_p8.png (258KB, 700x500px) Image search: [Google]

258KB, 700x500px

>>15459168
>>15469598
> A dolled... tarted up GM
I'll take it.

File: VDash Hexa.jpg (338KB, 850x617px) Image search: [Google]

338KB, 850x617px

>>15457882
Not even the first Gundam with no V-Fin

>>15497606
ver Ka markings are basically like notepad bodywriting when you think about it

>>15497650
> 'kill' markings for all the virgins she's slayed
> markers for where to open
> markers for 'danger' points
> arrows galore
... holy shit. It is.

>>15457868
>V-fin
Other people have posted the Ez8 & the Victory Hexa but you also have stuff like the Blue Destiny 1, the G-Lucifer, the MP Zeta & ZZ (since they count as gundams) and maybe more I can't think of
>Head vulcans
Those are common on GMs and other miscellaneous things have head vulcans like the Barzam & Gelgoog Marine
>Rifle, beam sabre
You mean those super-common weapons that virtually everything has?
>Shield
There are plenty of Gundams that lack shields. Actually, disregarding any opinions on the show itself, the only IBO Gundams that had shields were the Kimaris Trooper/K.Vidar and the Gusion Rebake.
The only real answer for if it is a Gundam is either checking the gunpla box or if it's considered a gundam.

>>15457881
The Amakusa, Akatsuki, M1 Astray, and Re-GZ don't and they count.

>>15497450

I never saw the MKII with a shield.

Not even sure what good a shield does something that big.

>>15457854
From a purely technical standpoint, in the UC a Gundam is a high-tech (for its respective era) prototype, usually with some new technology. It is generally made by/for the Federation and never for the 'bad guy' faction, with the exception maybe of the Gundam Mark II because it was that one show where the feddies were sort of the bad guy. Finally, it usually has some key design elements, like being partially white (again, Mark II is an exception) with two eyes and a v-fin.

Now the main explanation as people pointed out is that Zeon and their myriad would never call their badass super prototype a Gundam or make it to look like one. It's a question of pride. The RX-78-2 represent their defeat.

IRL? It's a Gundam if the writers say so. But then you get fuzzy areas like the Hyaku Shiki.

>>15460433
>>15460456
>>15460487
>>15461580
>>15473037
He's the japanese equivalent of the "self-loathing white liberal", really.

File: Queen Mansa.jpg (170KB, 403x369px) Image search: [Google]

170KB, 403x369px

>>15504421

>Now the main explanation as people pointed out is that Zeon and their myriad would never call their badass super prototype a Gundam or make it to look like one. It's a question of pride.

What happened here then?

>>15497450

>The Mk II had beam sword emitters in its wrists.

I thought that's where additional mega particle guns were located?