I've just finished Iron Blooded Orphans season 1. Obviously

S2 is "better" but no it's not really good

>>15434255
The fact you even tolerated it is amazing.

>>15434255
I agree it's not the worst thing and doesn't deserve alla the hate. That being said I didn't personally enjoy S1 that much and I found it to be mostly dull but not outright terrible. S2 on My opinion had a much better start and I was surprisingly invested for the first half. The mobile armor arc was probably the highpoint of the series. But as it went on, S2 got worse and the ending was pretty lackluster after all that buildup. Overall i still think it's a sligthly above average anime. Compared to other Gundam shows it's not on the better better though.

>>15434255
Seed Destiny was good though despite fake fans cr/y/ing.

>>15434255
The only good fight in the entire series involves a big fucking laser spewing dragon

>>15434339
>>15434353
Hm. What exactly do people not like? Like, for sure, it's nothing amazing, but I can give it credit for doing stuff Gundam has never done before. Only, it totally has no business being Gundam. You could replace every instance of "Gundam" with "Demon" and it'd still make just as much sense. It reminds me a lot of Gurren Lagann, too. Does that contribute to the dislike?

>>15434370
What I've seen so far was pretty dull admittedly; not much happens between episode 1 and 25 in terms of plot - it's just the same group trying to get a job done. If it had been an OVA or something I think it would have been paced better, but again, some of the unique fight scenes stuck out to me. It just needed more actually threatening villains. And maybe actually show why the Alaya-Vagina system is dangerous or whatever.

>>15434375
Nah man, I'm sorry, maybe time has dampened the memory for you but SEED Destiny is insufferable and infuriating. SEED is very good (imo) but Destiny is just flat-out bad.

>>15434389
Cool, I look forward to it.

>>15434255
Any hopes that S1 built up in you that made it tolerable to watch will be dashed to bits in the most retarded way possible. If the viewer cares to look back they will soon realize that most of the story is unnecessarily drawn out and most of the things the show wastes screentime on will be improperly resolved, if not just dropped outright. Even characters who take up a significant amount of time will remain mostly stagnant as all they do is repeat the same platitudes and expositions to each other. Then at the very end of the show (I mean literally within the last 10 minutes) the antagonist faction suddenly changes with very little reason for doing so, or even much foreshadowing about it either. All in all a huge waste of potential, and especially a huge waste of your time

>>15434255
S1, despite being average, is quite solid.

S2 however starts out promising, and after the two first arcs it goes downhill as it becomes a truly wasted potential.

>>15434393
>It reminds me a lot of Gurren Lagann
If you think about it, its actually the anti-Lagann, at least in terms of Tekkadan.

>>15434255
>wrench mace
Fucking incredible
Honestly this and the episodes that followed were the last time that it actually felt like Tekkadan was fighting an uphill battle.

Lupus Rex was cool and all, but you really can't beat a toddler bludgeoning the entire Inner Earth Orbit Regulatory fleet to death with a wrench, you know?

>>15434410
As soon as weird eyebrow lady showed up and was like "I challenge you to a duel!" I was like "Here we go, it's gonna be one of those duel episodes where they spend the whole time prepping and then something else interrupts".

Then she says "I'll give you 30 minutes to prepare" and in my head I was like "It'd be funny if he just fucking rushed them right now" and then he fucking did and I was like

God damn this show is not bad
Bit grim with the stepping on the cockpit, still don't know how I feel about that but at least Mikazuki doesn't pretend to be a good guy like Bellri and his warning shots

>>15434255
>Obviously I've heard it's an absolute dogshit show on par with SEED Destiny, but I'm not seeing it yet.
Newsflash! Shitposting trolls on /m/ don't want to you to like or try anything!

If you hadn't noticed by now watching the show and forming your own opinion is worth far more then some copy pasted 'public opinion' statements.

>>15434415
It's fairly clear that that scene was intended to come across as Mikazuki pushing his pragmatism maybe a step too far. Like, fair enough his ignoring the challenge since he has no reason to go along with it, but he tosses his usual practicality aside for a bit to get catharsis for his hurt fee fees by slaughtering these people. As Carta's issuing her challenge, the Turbine girls point out how stupid that is given that Tekkadan has both a huge material advantage and absolutely no motive to humour her dumb request. They could easily have all gone out and mopped the floor with them that way, Carta is clearly an ineffectual joke at that point, so Mikazuki savaging them all, killing them on foot, going out of his way to crush a cockpit and inflicting Carta with a slow drawn out painful and humiliating death is a little uncomfortable.

To make an analogy for how it seemed, imagine if 00 had had Patrick Colasour killed the same way. He's an laughable joke character, so it would just come across as mean-spirited on the part of the writers.

>>15434393
Nope, Destiny was good and objectively superior to this.

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>>15434755

>>15434255
I actually enjoyed IBO, the most it did wrong to me was be a little boring during some parts in season 1

>>15434622
>mean spirited
I think this is my problem with IBO, both in S1 and S2. Carta's death, for example, was something that arguably needed to happen for McGillis' role in the show to play out, but it happened in a way that made it seem like the writers actually hated her.
I'm fine with bad shit happening, but there's a fine line between tragedy and some kind of masturbatory murder fantasy. It's like they wanted drama, but pushed things into edgy GoT territory.

I guess S2 and the dainfsleif NTR were a way to to compensate, but it really just shot too far into the opposite direction. I know that the current meme is that everyone in Tekkadan deserved it, but it really just felt like Nagai was trying too hard.

>>15434255
Destiny was a crazy trainwreak.
On the other hand IBO is a dull crash with a predictable trajectory.

>>15434255

Always remember that SEED was popular. Popular but bad shows still have fans, that's what makes them POPULAR bad shows instead of just bad shows.

If you are enjoying yourself, why do you give a shit about whether some neckbeard living in his mom's basement in Wisconsin thinks you should be having less fun?

>>15434255
The only reason why people are still hating on it because apparently everyone here is a closet pedophile chunni and their favorite character died

>>15435215

> Tekkadans entire gimmick is that they are the ones who know how to fight REAL WAR unlike these fancy lads who are powerless in the face of true brutish manliness

You are really surprised at the masturbatory murder fantasy aspect of it? IBO was always the lowest level of power fantasy: where the MC is noteworthy not because he is actually special, but because all of his opponents are unrealistically impotent.

>>15434415
yeah nah the MC is literally "cool emotionless guy who kills people and isn't afraid of anything"
He's gonna mace away all his enemies for many episodes, it might please your inner murder boner but it gets old, nothing challenges them, then one day they face a threat that can't be swatted away by the invincible gundam and everyone fucking dies. No that's not a legit nor accurate spoiler.
And then people will complain about how the bad guys have ass pull plot armor or whatever.

>>15434255
You have to realize that almost any mecha show watched by the majority of /m/ is going to have 90% calling it garbage for one reason or another. IBO wasn't perfect but it was a pretty good Gundam entry anyways.

>>15435376
>IBO wasn't perfect but it was a pretty good Gundam entry anyways.
That's a funny way to say "worst of the franchise", fake fan.

>>15434255
Is there any lazier way to kill off droves of characters in a /m/echa series than "random mafia guys who are never really tied in with the rest of the antagonist are abruptly inserted into a scene and shoot you"?

I mean it's got to be pretty high up there in the not-give-a-fuck scale.

>>15435387
>fake fan
found the shitposter

>>15435312
>>15435348
This is why this board celebrated when they all got dainsleif'd in S2. It was pretty satisfying to see pure machismo bullshit meet strategy.
Also, it was nice to see that the only major villain who died was the honor-obsessed one.

>>15435399
>found the shitposter
Not shitposting if it's truth.

>>15434255
IBO is really not that good. Shitty pacing, shitty forced foreshadowing, drama you didn't asked for, constant failure to deliver their message.
>person A: should we really enjoy killing this guy so much?
>person B: FUCK YEAH GO FOR IT WE NEED THIS
>*heroic music plays*
>person A: should we really do this high risk thing that might fuck us over?
>person B: FUCK YEAH GO FOR IT WE NEED THIS
>*heroic music plays*
>person A: ok that was shit we need to stop getting ourselves killed
>person B: FUCK NO WE'VE COME SO FAR WE NEED MORE OF THIS
>*heroic music plays*
and boo hoo they've ran out of luck, but the viewers are now convinced they were 100% in the right all along and blame everything else instead.

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>>15434255
best gundam show ever
Gaelia (garma) comes back and fucking kills McGillis (Char)

also the main characters get fucked by Rustal as we out wits them and McGillis

shit was awesome and something like this has never happened in gundam and after the shit show that was AGE and RECONGISTA you fags better shut up

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>>15435665
>No new posts

S1 doesn't seem so bad because you think you're being setup for a good S2 so you're willing to overlook some flaws. S2 happens and by the halfway mark you've got some serious doubts but surely the last half will be good. Then the series is over and you're left with jack shit and the bluest balls.

The Gundam designs, McG as a fucked up but tragic chuuni antagonist, lack of beamspam, and jumping forward in battles to when it gets good are the best parts and everything else ranges from mediocre to trash.

>>15434255
I love IBO but I marathoned both seasoned whereas people who watch it weekly tear it apart which results in them noticing more flaws and hating the gundam.

It's nowhere near the worst gundam shows and one of the better AUs we've gotten in the past decade.

>>15434393
>but I can give it credit for doing stuff Gundam has never done before
I'm curious what you think this is, I haven't really seen it do anything not already covered by something like victory or something.

>>15435673
I can never get over how great the GrimGeese is as a concept. Only complaint with this job is that it needs more shades of white for differentiation, but other than that, holy shit I'd love to own this.

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If you liked S1 then you are probably good to go since most people seem to have trouble getting through it. I liked IBO overall but I know S1 has a couple of really slow points and S2 is a bit more consistent overall.

I think the main issue with IBO is that it introduces some cool things but never expand on them at all.

>>15434622
Biscuits was killed and Tekkadan wanted revenge for that, they made it clear in that scene.

>>15434255
I just finished S1 as well
is S2 going to actually touch on the fact that Mika is a violent psychopath, or are we going to gloss over it because he's the "protagonist"

>>15436065
Nah. They ain't gonna bring it up.

>>15436086
well fuck

>>15436092
On the other hand you get the following:
>Smashes
>Muh Bael
>Betrayal
>Muh Bael
>IdIok Kujan
>Muh Bael
>Hamshal and beam genocide
>Muh Bael
>That one idiot at Teaiwaz that goaded Tekkadan into a fight and got killed
>Muh Bael
>Muh Bael
>DAISNLEIFS
>Muh Bael
>Muh Bael
>Bolivian Army and IdIok Sandwitch
>MUH...oh wait not

Seriously, liked S1 despite its visible flaws, but the show overall is wasted potential.

Hoping that when it gets into SRW then the game will fix is just like it did with Seed, Seed DESTINY and Cross Ange.

>>15436101
>Seriously, liked S1 despite its visible flaws, but the show overall is wasted potential.

This. Some good ideas wasted by shit writing and shit directing.

>>15436168
Yeah. Not to mention that originally Barbatos was supposed to look bulkier, Hamshal more humanoid and organic looking, while Mika was supposed to have emotions.

Man, why are shows like that wasted on foolish writers? Nagai proved that he's edgelord supreme, while Okada actually tried to fix it despite her flaws. She was the lesser of two evils.

>>15436045
>Biscuits was killed and Tekkadan wanted revenge for that
Yeah, but it's hard to give a shit about Mikazuki's spastic little tantrum over it when he died because he was in a combat unit on the frontlines of a battle and was totally fair game, and when Mikazuki killed several times more people in that fight alone. He tries to drop the usual line about how he's being practical and getting rid of a potential obstacle in her, but he's clearly drawing it out for his own personal satisfaction. In that moment Carta was more pitiful than Tekkadan was sympathetic. I know Biscuit sure wouldn't have approved of it, but as soon as he dies everyone immediately starts using his death as an excuse to justify any insane course of action they so please, even though he was the only sensible one of the lot of them,

Bael and Chocopedo were fucking awesome I don't really see why people dislike them.

>>15436392
Bael is a normie suit. Looked cool, but literally nothing special about it.

Chocopedo was just a dumbass going up against people waaay out of his league.

>>15435869
any handheld weapon>guns
mobile suits are hard counter to beam weapons
Purple Hair Pretty boy is actually the true masked man
non-flayboyant homosexual character
political corruption and violence is the the best way to achieve results not pacifism, or having a righteous cause

>>15436403
>but literally nothing special about it.
Well it could into atmospheric flight.

But yeah, Choco should've customized it with some new stuff. Then again, there was no time here and there.

>>15436403
>McGillis spends time getting Gjallarhorn scientists to remake and refine Alaya-Vijnana
>McGillis only does the surgery on himself, not a single one of his supporters despite their zealous love for him
>McGillis steals Bael, takes over Gjallarhorn HQ, doesn't steal any other Gundams from the armory
Seriously, add three more Gundams,give all of the revolutionary faggots AV, and McGillis' faction would've ratfucked Rustal in their first battle.

>>15435399
> It was pretty satisfying to see pure machismo bullshit meet strategy.

Yep. That satisfied my wordlbuilding autism.

> Hey, this is really effective. REALLY effective. Lets keep doing this!
> Have you considered that there is a reason people don't do this?
> Naw, man. Everyone but us is just fucking stupid. Lets keep going. Everything will be f-
> DAINSLEIF'D

>>15436546
>they sure love saturation tactics
IBO is literal pottery. Shino shits all over Gjallarhorn's missile spam tactics because he likes melee, gets the artillery Gundam by dumb luck, never successfully uses the artillery Gundam to shell anything other than a cliff, fails to kill Rustal with the Dainslief, and then Dainsliefs from space absolutely rip Mika & Akihiro a new asshole because Shino couldn't seal the deal.

>>15434375

Put your trip back on, Duel.

>>15436652
Shut up, Clawshrimpy

>>15436403
That's why it was so great. That and the fact that he almost never lose his cool while having his plans get teared to shred. He was a fun character and had some depth, I liked him.

Bael was basically an RX-78 expy. Better than the average without any crazy gimmick, only truly good because of its pilot and has become a legend.

>>15436323
>he's clearly drawing it out for his own personal satisfaction.
Yeah and? What, were you expecting the child soldier who literally had life-threatening surgery three times just so he could get a job and not starve to death and never had a day off to NOT be a little callous? You Americans and your cushy little upbringings don't seem to be able to grasp the fact that not every kid grows up in a safe, prosperous environment like you.

>>15437863
If mikazuki had cried he would have gotten character development. Kira was really good at that.

>>15435869
>Literally 0 beam weapons for an entire season
>Main Gundam doesn't even use a sword (or at least figure out how to until the finale because his style is bashing weapons, which themselves are rare as fuck in Gundam)
>Gundam is a powerful, unique machine but it gets wrecked often and can be repaired with conventional, accessible materials
>Main character is reliant on a deuteragonist and only useful in the Gundam - the opposite of Heero and Setsuna
>The "war princess" actually wants to take steps to stop the economic conditions that cause children to end up in groups like Tekkadan, she doesn't just spout dumb shit like "no one should ever fight ever"
>Graham & Billy turned out to be Char & Garma who turned out to be Treize & Zechs
>Multiple Gundams without a fucking ridiculous abundance of them
There's plenty more but off the top of my head.

>>15437863
It's not that, it's that he's a hypocrite delivering his usual bullshit line about how he's doing it because it's pragmatic and he's all about that when drawing it out is the opposite. Whether this is consistent with his character is immaterial, it makes him more unlikeable and this is counter to the authorial intent that we give a shit about him.

>>15436045
>Biscuits was killed and Tekkadan wanted revenge for that, they made it clear in that scene.
Change Tekkadan to Orga and you will be correct on that. The "revenge for Biscuit" thing never came up, not even once, until Orga came out of his little stupor and gave the rousing speech about avenging Biscuit. Orga has always been brainwashing Tekkadan into doing stupid shit with Mika as his executioner. The only benefit of a doubt I can give him is that Orga might have realized they would need the extra motivation to complete the mission. But it was still stupid and poisonous of him to be injecting Tekkadan with revenge shit instead of just motivating them to do their job as best as they can.

>>15437931
I'd say it's less that Orga is brainwashing Tekkadan into doing stupid shit, and more that Mikazuki is being the little shoulder devil prodding him to do stupid shit, and after Biscuit died there was no counterbalance to him. Orga seems to doubt his course of action a lot, but it was usually one of these two giving him a push onward in either direction.

Orga was a shit in the end but he actually made Tekkadan into something. That's fairly impressive considering most orphans in this timeline do nothing with their lives and die earlier than Tekkadan did

>>15438038
>and die earlier than Tekkadan did
I'm sure Tekkadan were the fault of some of those over the series' run.
Though it was good that Orga didn't burn his bridges with Arbrau

>>15437863
> What, were you expecting the child soldier who literally had life-threatening surgery three times just so he could get a job and not starve to death and never had a day off to NOT be a little callous?

And thus we come across the biggest flaw in casual entertainment criticism, the implication that characters are real people and that their actions are the result of a complex backstory and not the result of one or a few people in a room making stuff up.

The first offender is
>>15436323
this guy though.
>but he's clearly drawing it out for his own personal satisfaction
The problem isn't that Mikazuki is drawing it out for his personal satisfaction, Mikazuki isn't even a real person. The problem is the narrative construction of that sequence of events. Time and time again Carta is written into situations that make her look old-fashioned and ill-suited to command in a humorous way. She and her knights are a running gag and the show tries it's best to make us not take her seriously. When she makes that declaration on the battlefield the audience is in on the joke; Tekkadan isn't the sort of group to fight with "honor" so of course these people are going to get slaughtered. The problem is that it's juxtaposed with Bisuit's death which is a "serious" moment and brings to the situation a "serious" sense of revenge in a gag moment. The result is an incongruous tone where the character the writers have incessantly bullied is getting killed in one of the cruelest ways possible. Yeah you might say Mika would totally do that, but the problem is just how the moment is constructed to make one of the most harmless and actually somewhat virtuous villains in the show die a terrible death after a series of inglorious defeats.

Contrast that with Iok who also is a joke character and dies a terrible death, but the writers actually gave him a variety of small victories against Tekkadan and wrote him to be a worthless human being with nothing good to his name.

>>15438126
Yeah, this is a much better way of putting what I was trying to get across there, thanks.

>>15437900
>Literally 0 beam weapons for an entire season
>Main Gundam doesn't even use a sword (or at least figure out how to until the finale because his style is bashing weapons, which themselves are rare as fuck in Gundam)
Everything after this point isn't new. Some of them have even been done since the first show. Even if they actually were trying much more new stuff, elements in the show's setting or background don't mange the show good on their own

>>15437863
>you can't critisize this character because he's a good boy who had a hard life
literally the "starving african children" argument

>>15436603
Well their saturation plans all failed up till they brought out dainslaif squads. Mobile suits tanked every other strike till then. The strikes also failed to distribute their lines or demoralize them, until the dainslaif

>>15438238
Always thought the starving African children argument was "eat your food because a kid starving in Africa would kill for that food". Anyway, the point isn't that you can't criticize them, but that the criticism is misplaced. Tekkadan acted perfectly rationally within that situation with the experience they'd had with Gjallajorn so far. You may have gotten to see the other side of Carta as this naive noble, but all Tekkadan saw was yet another Gjallajorn officer who already demonstrated they were willing to break the rules to go after them. Would it make any sense at all to accept get offer to duel on face value, or would it make sense to view it as yet another deception and start fighting before they get lulled into another Gjallajorn trap, which almost certainly would've happened with Gaelio and his squad laying in ambush nearby. Based on their experience thus far, Tekkadan just simply made the right tactical decision, imo.

>>15438372
That's not what people really criticise from that scene though. They were already going to bushwhack Carla because they had no reason to play along, and that's fine and dandy. It was more the gratuitous inefficient brutality, and that lies with Mikazuki. No-one is criticising Tekkadan as a whole.

>>15435348
Mika's not the main character though. Orga is.

>>15436323
>I know Biscuit sure wouldn't have approved of it, but as soon as he dies everyone immediately starts using his death as an excuse to justify any insane course of action they so please, even though he was the only sensible one of the lot of them,
That was the point though. Biscuit was their voice of reason that kept them in line and once he was removed they had nothing holding them back. They were meant to be asshole protagonists and I think the biggest point of controversy with IBO hinges on if you like the protagonists being mostly in the wrong.

It's not a great show, but it's not the worst ever. I haven't watched much of season 2 yet though. I personally liked watching the Tekkaden group continually sink to new lows though. It was awkward at first but once I decided I was meant to hate most of them it all kind of clicked.

>>15435399
>daisnleif
>strategy
Top kek anon. Tekkadan has literally never lost against strategy until the end. They lost to saturation and OP weapon. The writers planned for them to lose since the beginning but weren't even competent enough to write a actually competent antagonist who isn't just pushing "I win" button. And /m/ cheered to that you say? God, IBOfags are out of this world retarded.

>>15435312
But brute force is exactly what the dainsleif embodies and symbolizes perfectly, wouldn't you agree? It's the most brutish weapon of the series, close to an unstoppable force. Rain of dainseif missiles dropping and completely obliterating their target is nothing short of a masturbatury power fantasy.

>>15438126
>the implication that characters are real people and that their actions are the result of a complex backstory
That's how it's supposed to work, yeah. If the characters don't feel like real people at least to a degree then that means the writers aren't doing their job.

>>15438612
Power fantasy works because you insert as the protagonist who can crush all others because he's special. Here you have a few mostly unlikable antagonists who even acknowledge they are doing something unjust and corrupt that will cause suffering for a political end. Those are the guys that win by using a weapon that can be used by literally anyone trained to pull a trigger.You aren't supposed to self-insert as the mook with the gun or the self-interested antagonist unless you're a self-unaware asshole.

In that vein, you really shouldn't be self-inserting as Mika unless you're a self-unaware asshole with autism.

>>15438646
You're missing the point completely. No event is written into a work because that's how it would always go in real life. Events exist because they further some narrative end. Even in real life things can go a lot of ways, the deterministic nature of the world around us is actually a perceptual coloring by the human's need to create narrative to understand it's surrounding. It's that inherent cognitive bias that also causes us to write and interpret stories the way that we do.

The Knights didn't get slaughtered because Tekkadan and Mika are hardened soldiers, they were slaughtered because that's how the writers wrote it. Carta didn't suffer because Mika makes everyone suffer when he fights. She suffered because that's how the writers wanted to do it.

>>15436314
Washio's concept art for a rival unit does have some elements that made it into Hashmal, but I don't think they were ever intended to be the same unit. I suspect the MA backstory was made up way latter.

I do like how Bael got some unused elements from the initial draft of Barbatos though. I would also venture a guess that the bare waists were forced in by Bandai as a way to show off the internal frame gimmick in a clearly visible way given that they don't show up until later Barbatos drafts.

>>15436459
I was under the impression that it had unbelievable mobility compared to the other Gundams. It's "gimmick" was it's speed.

Although the show was a complete bumblefuck and never remained consistent with the Gundam's abilities and features, as well as it's pilots skill levels.

>>15437900
>>Gundam is a powerful, unique machine but it gets wrecked often and can be repaired with conventional, accessible materials
>>Main character is reliant on a deuteragonist and only useful in the Gundam - the opposite of Heero and Setsuna
Victory does this 10x better
the barbatos gets wrecked like 5 times total, the victory was a literal X-wing in terms of disposability, it was pretty much a grunt Gundam.

>>Graham & Billy turned out to be Char & Garma who turned out to be Treize & Zechs
people saw this from a mile away

>>15438611

The biggest problem I think is that a lot of viewers didn't get this. They don't think Tekkadan are sinking to new lows, the show goes out of it's way to justify Tekkadan make them appear to be the good guys in every situation they get into. People still believe Tekkadan are just trying to survive in season 2. Fuck, the show lists recognized push and pull factors for child soldiers (provide for family/themselves, escape prosecution, want to be a hero/martyr) and fans use them to point out how great Tekkadan is ("Orga provides a home to other kids, treats them well and gives them good pay. They have nowhere else to go"). In real life, those same factors are listed as reasons why there is no such thing as voluntary enlistment for children despite claims otherwise.

>>15438862
wrong

>>15434255
>Obviously I've heard it's an absolute dogshit show on par with SEED Destiny
No
Its not perfect, but its not even close to as bad as Seed Destiny. Its somewhere between G Reco and 00

>>15438929
you're supposed to hate gjallarhorn for putting the world in this chaotic state

>>15438690
>not self inserting into Rustal Elion, commander of an invincible fleet, sitting atop of an impenetrable fortress, laying waste on his opponents with an unstoppable weapon

>>15438721
Maybe it's because you're not making any point but stating the bloody obvious. Sometimes you have to let go of the meta analysis and go directly into the narrative if you want to derive any kind of sense from a story. At the end of the day characters' actions are written to make sense with what has been established with those characters, that is why their attitude and personalities preserve some kind of continuity. The characters themselves are established in order to tell the story but not as mere empty vehicles, they are meant to be seen as "little people" living in that universe. When evaluating a character's actions you have to look back at their backstory and search for a justification there. At the very least an understaning for their actions if justification isn't available.

>>15438939
Can't I hate both?

>>15436065
It's really inconsistent. Sometimes he's a vicious psycho, sometimes he's just an emotionless autist

>>15438929
Is that how you saw it? Cause apparently according to Nagai Tekkadan was never supposed to be sympathetic. They were supposed to be seen as some of redeemless, loathsome vehicle of destruction and this is the main point of contempt that many viewers have with him right now. Say what you will about Tekkadan but the fact that Nagai wrote a story about child soldiers and completely failed to take into account their mental conditions and background while evaluating them morally paints a troubling picture of how him and Okada see exploited and trafficked children and their circumstances. Nobody with any knowledge of the current state of the world would ever damn child soldiers. I feel like the creators of this show bit off more than they could chew on many grounds.

>>15434255
Maybe it's something that's better if you watch it in one go but watching it on a weekly basis was one of the worst things ever. Imagine waiting a week just to get hit with another episode where fucking nothing happens but exposition on stuff you already knew three episodes ago.

>IBO is good because it doesn't use beam weapons
Kill yourselves

>>15439109

IBO doesn't get politics period. Hell, Makanai threatened Tekkadan into being his bodyguards after they made the trip to Earth to meet him. They made that trip because Kudelia thought he was going to discuss half-metal rights, not part of a scheme to get him reelected after a corruption scandal made him resign. The show treats that fuck like a good guy.

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>>15439207
Yeah season 2 made a poor attempt at showing he has changed, but for me he was always a weasel, similar to McMurdo and Teiwaz in general, we know they are gangsters, McMurdo was mentioned a few times as the most feared man in Jupiter, yet we are supposed to like him because he helps the kids, is likely that he has created more than a few orphans himself

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>>15439193
This

>>15439229
Yakuza in Japan are heavily involved with human trafficking. Really wished there had been an arc where Akihiko has to deal with Teiwaz's involvement with the Human Debris industry.

I keep going back to last year when Nagai said that while he believed Tekkadan were going down the wrong path, it was important the audience doesn't think of them as wrong or misguided. It either feels he wanted to fuck with the audience or some producer kept stepping in to make the show more marketable. But then again Nagai changed his story from IBO being a mafia story to Tekkadan being based off the Shinsengumi, giving Tekkadan a romantic death, probably from some backlash against the ending.

>>15439193
>Beams are bad because Kira uses beamspam

That's my guess why not having beams is touted as a positive.

>>15439018
I'll allow it

>>15439207
everyone irl is a snake

deal with it

>>15438178
Even then the second point fits Turn A where the Turn A didn't even have a beam sword till the halfway point or so, about the same time when the barbatos did in IBO, hell its most used melee weapon was a mace at the start.

>>15438567
Wrong again, retard. Its actually Atra

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>>15439444
Well she did get almost everything she wanted… her ending could be considered a “happy” one

>>15438612
>Tekkadan has literally never lost against strategy until the end.
This is what really irks me. All the IBOfags gush about Rustal is such a competent commander and realistic leader who's just doing his job, but he just seems mediocre from what we've seen. His whole plan in the first half was just to start a dumb war to hurt McGillis' reputation, and that never amounted to anything of consequence in the end. I'll give him some props for sending Gaelio to spook McGillis into action back on Mars, but that could've been a much easily done play by just revealing Gaelio's identity at the next Seven Stars meeting instead of risking a conflict. Then through no planning of his own, he manages to luck out with Iok going after the Turbines and isolating Tekkadan out of pure idiocy and manipulation. And next in one of the few instances he's supposed to be showing his competency as a regular commander, gets outsmarted by Tekkadan in their play to strike their ship. At that point he should've died for getting outsmarted as such in battle. But no, he gets saved, not through his own wits or outsmarting Tekkadan in a show of strategic skill, but by having Julia suddenly power up with superhuman reflexes, he makes it out alive for the win. Rustal further shows his tactical naivete when he allows Gaelio and McGillis a duel, when a good commander sent in as many troops as possible to take down Bael. Finally he wastes his men's lives on Mars when he could've long Dainsleifed not only Tekkadan's suits but also their headquarters, from orbit.

>>15438931
Here's your (You)

>>15439476
>good commander sent in as many troops as possible to take down Bael.

That battle was as good as done anyways. No way Chocopedo would've won and Rustal wanted the spectacle.

>Finally he wastes his men's lives on Mars when he could've long Dainsleifed not only Tekkadan's suits but also their headquarters, from orbit.

There were news reporters. It was supposed to show how stronk Gjallarhorn was.

>>15438828
Yeah. That's a pity. And yup, Bael did move like lightning even on ground.

>>15438766
Curious

Do you have a link showing all these Barbatos drafts and such?

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>>15434255
Here is a little spoiler for S2

You know, I could never believe that the whole AV System gave any kind of advantages. Maybe it's just the bad directing or I've seen too many Gundam shows beforehand, but it always seems like the AV system's supposed agility boost was never that apparent. All the "AV movements" seen in the show just looked like the same kind of moves that most ace pilots in /m/ could do. Hell, Jesus Yamato could do any of the moves that those claims is due to AV.

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>>15440128
not same anon but here

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>>15440128

>>15440759

The rival unit looks more angel than Hashmal