Is it just me, or does Macross gloss over the long-term issues

#notallzents

>>15421843
>Is it just me, or does Macross gloss over the long-term issues of Zentraedi/human coexistence? The last act of the first series made it quite clear that they're more predisposed to violence than humans

You never watched Macross Plus I see.

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Why did Basara use his valkyrie to walk to Sivil in episode of 34 instead of just flying to her?

>>15421834

> why the hell would you populate an entire fleet with the aliens who put you in the situation, already have their own god damned ships, and significantly outnumber humanity?

Diplomacy. The UN Spacy/NUNs are putting what is essentially their own spin on Zentradi out there and letting them do their thing. Zentradi/Meltran that live in co-existence and can contact and influence other Zentradi/Meltran fleets on their own and show them that that life could be different, and, as far as they're concerned, better, if they actually help the UN Spacy/NUNs. They can do something besides war, and the UN Spacy/NUNs are cool enough with them that they can even form their own fleets, share technology, culture etc.

If Zentradi weren't given equal rights, and treated the same it's hard for an outsider, like those millions of uncultured Zentradi to look at them and think there's any point joining them since they'd just be held in suspicion and arm's length if they did. It's only really solvable by war. Every time. Which is expensive. A fleet and some resources are much cheaper in the long run.

Besides, the entire point of the Macross plan is that once humanity spreads out they'll basically be unkillable as a species. You can wipe out some/lots of them, but wiping them all out is going to be much, much harder. If not impossible. Even if some Zentradi fleets go off the plan they can't wipe them all out again, much like humanity can't wipe out all Zentradi. They can certainly help each other though.

Plus also addresses it to a degree as >>15422124 said. Frontier also has an episode showing that there's continuing tension between Zentradi and humanity.

>>15422999

Pretty much this. We are given to understand that there are always some pockets of Zentradi bucking the plan, but they are such a minority that while they can cause havoc on the local level and need to be put down, they don't really impact the galactic state of affairs.

Also, as a side note, Zentradi make for excellent colonists. They can live in places that normal humans would struggle with, and you can replace a LOT of construction equipment by having Big Zentradi lifting shit and holding it in place for little Humans to bolt together. Its cheap, its easy, and it fosters a culture of cooperation and letting everyone involved feel useful and needed.

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NUNS would probably crack down harshly on "REACTION WEAPON ALL ZENTS SPACE WAR NOW" hate speech, a bit of media control censorship here and positive propaganda there.

The fact that humans and Zents are biologically compatible and that interspecies romance helped win SW1 probably helped a lot.

Playing up racial tensions sounds like a likely tactic for some Anti-UN forces to use though.

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@15421834
You're not getting any (OP)s from me.

>>>/pol/

>>15422999
>Plus also addresses it to a degree

Don't forget the black commander guy shredding Gulds psychologly report and telling the doctor not to say anything about it, lest it get out and ruin Human/Zentradi relations

>>15421834
I'm pretty sure the last arc of SDFM is more effort put towards showing the troubles of differing cultures coexisting after the war than all other robot cartoons combined.

and yeah Plus touches on it a bit more with Gulds anti-ZentRage meds and stuff

>>15421834
macross plus and Guld were a thing

>>15422999
>Besides, the entire point of the Macross plan is that once humanity spreads out they'll basically be unkillable as a species.
Yeah the point is to spread HUMANS. Time and money spent on spreading Zentraedi is time and money not spent on ensuring the future of the people the Zentraedi fucked. Why don't we ever see old people who still hate Zentaedi?

>>15423869
I got the impression that it was so Guld could continue participating in the YF-21 tests in spite of his half-breed murder boner tendencies. Johnson wanted the Ghost project to fail at all costs because he believed that planes would always need pilots, so he did everything to keep the YF-19 and 21 projects going.

>>15424476
>"BOY STOP LISTENING TO YOUR DAMN IDOL SHIT AND LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT THAT ONE TIME I SHOT DOWN 6 OF THEM GOD DAMN ZENTRADI DURING THE BATTLE OF JUPITER"
Sure thing grandpa...

>>15424476

Putting humans first or even humans alone out there as fleets isn't the only, or even demonstrably the best way to ensure humans spread or survive. Equipping allies helps do that too, and at a relatively low cost compared to fighting every new Zentradi fleet you come across. Doing so also gives you a reputation as someone it pays to ally with, instead of one as someone who mistrusts and maybe even mistreats their allies. Something that will not gain you much in the way of allies. Diplomacy is cheaper and more effective in many situations than war.

As to why no bitter old people? It probably helps that only a few hundred to few thousand people survived Space War I, the vast majority of which were on board the Macross and worked with Zentradi to end the war in the fist place. On top of that, most of the current human population are clones, not direct descendants, so they grew up in a Zentradi allied/accepting culture with little to no influence that would make them dislike Zentradi. There's no reason bitter or angry vets would be a thing.

>>15424772
>Johnson wanted the Ghost project to fail at all costs because he believed that planes would always need pilots, so he did everything to keep the YF-19 and 21 projects going.

As far as I know, Johnson had no idea about the Ghost project at that stage.

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I have Delta on my back burner, have they gone into detail with what they've done with the Vajra?

>>15425642
The Vajra have all fucked off to another galaxy.

>>15425642
The Vajra fucked off, but Delta mentions them a bit. Major plot spoilers follow: The main antagonist tries to do the same thing as the Frontier villains and connect all Protoculture races in a neural network using the mind-controlling power of music.

>>15425680
>>15425675
I'm gonna be honest, that's kind of lame. I really liked the space bugs.

>>15425886
Kawamori needs more weed before we get Ender's Idol Group

>>15425889
I really didn't want to imagine Ender in a miniskirt, thanks

>>15425893
nonono Ender hasn't caught gay from his dad like Hamlet, Ender manages the troop of bugger idols

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>>15425886
>I really liked the space bugs.

But.... Why...? They were nothing more than a boring ass plot device to an even lamer government conspiracy plot. And their designs are complete shit compared to the Protodevilns, since they at least look appropriate to the setting instead of being JRPG boss rejects.

I think this show is getting to me. The last three times I fapped, Holy Lonely Light immediately came to my mind.

>>15425919
Think about it:

A species of Ginormous Space Bugs with telepathy who like pop music.

Yeah, it was mostly the idea of what they could bring that enraptured me and ai'm sad to see them go. Could you imagine what it would be like if some Humans had to live in the big Bioships? Do Space Bug Battleships snore? A team up fight of VF, Zentradi, and Vajra would look cool.

Even if you go for the humor angle, there was some stuff there. What does a Vajra teenager who has spent time with Humans d corate their room like? What if it's a Genki Bug tasked with defending their new school ship?

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>>15425886
I'm getting really tired of these shitty villains. The windermerans and the anti-UN had the most potential to be really cool villains but they both ended up being stupid and boring. Can Macross go back to being about making friends with these magnificent giants?

>>15426112
>The windermerans and the anti-UN had the most potential to be really cool villains

No they didn't. The sooner you stop deluding yourself, the easier it'll be to avoid any of Kawamori's future bullshit.

>>15426141
Both factions were humanoid and piloted valks. That's far more interesting in itself than space demons or space bugs and adding some interesting character to them would have been greatly welcomed. No faction after the zentradi has been memorable.

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>>15426156

You're an idiot for looking at this boy band poster and thinking there was ever a chance at them being interesting characters.

And you're an even bigger idiot for thinking that re-hashing Zeon makes for an interesting choice of antagonist given that Macross' interstellar premise could very easily lead into MUCH more bizarre and interesting encounters with otherworldly beings.

>>15426178

You honestly reckon the Japanese could do anything interesting with out-and-out aliens now?

>>15426178
The fuck are you on about? We've already had wild and interesting encounters before with the space devils and bugs. That shit's not interesting no matter how wierd it is. What gave the windies and anti-UN an advantage was that they were bad guys that could have been more down to earth since they were people. Same went with the zentradi. Bringing back the giants at his point is more han welcomed because we haven't fought them in over a decade.

Also, I don't see why Zeon is such a bad thing anyways. If the baddies are not Zeon, who would it be? Just another faction of military space bad guys with a different name like the Titans. Get over it, nigger.

>>15426184

The JAM from Yukikaze were great. Barely anything was known about them and the writers did a good job in making their incomprehensibility an engaging part of the narrative since they were legitimately hard to predict.

>>15426194
>What gave the windies and anti-UN an advantage was that they were bad guys that could have been more down to earth since they were people

Fuck, you truly are retarded if you think 'relatability' is the only thing that makes for an interesting antagonist. I mean, why bother with fictional stories if all you're interested in seeing is historical conflicts being lazily re-written for slightly different contexts?

Macross is ded

>>15426242

>now

That's the operative word, as much as I appreciate your citation. Yukikaze was 15 years ago.

>>15426007
What they could do with the Vajra is actually pretty vast.
>VF/Vajra hybrid machines with fold sensitive pilots working alongside the Vajra, hell, they could be the special escort squad for an embassador to the Vajra
>The eventual evolution of the Vajra where they manage to grow a humanoid type for interacting with the humans and the diplomacy talks
>And also the awkwardness when the humans realised the Vajra!Human in front of them is basically controlled by the Vajra Queen and is essentially her

>Outright hilarious shit where the Vajra park in hangars much to the horror of the technicians just because the Queen wanted to listen to a concert and sent a squad to relay the fold waves to her
>Said Vajra units later being elevated to the carrier deck when the fleet is under attack
>It grabs the catapult with one of its appendages and they launch it out

>>15423116
It also caters to people with giantess fetishes. Zentradi sex clubs must be booming.

>>15426242
You're right anon, lets make stories about sympathizing with space bugs rather than actual people.

>>15426821
Now you're thinking like /tg/!

What happens some new threat can cut off the Fold in a localized area and forces a Vajra to become an individual?
We've already seen the macro Shopping Mall in Frontier, is there a bug equivalent?
Can you befriend a Giant Space Bug? Can you share a hangar with one, like it was a room? How do you communicate with something so large?
Heck, what new threat can you explore that threatens Humanity and the Bugs?

>>15426839
>Now you're thinking like /tg/!

No, at this point it's really obvious the guy's only shitposting.

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>Actually listening to human cultural degeneracy
I seriously hope you guys don't do this

>>15421834
>and pop music is not a cure-all for what is in their nature.
Yeah, this is thrown right out the window.
The original was "culture saves the day", every other television entry after is literally "music is magic, love is magic, and it saves everything".
7 works because it's so extreme. Delta and Frontier just fail to understand what made SDF great.

>>15426839
They're hive minded you idiot. We want to see valks or giant robot suits. Not more bugs.

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>>15426998
>not giant bugs wearing more giant robot suits
>not having a spinoff where a valk cuddles giant bug and we get Klan-klan in bug form after some pineapple salad

>>15421834
Not reading all of that.

>>15429251
Go be a nigger over a /v/.

>>15426888
What I hate is how Delta specifically shits on this too, what with the whole "we thought it was just culture shock but nah music is a weapon" bullshit.

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What is your opinion of this zentradi girl?

>>15426360

>one character who manages to get an interspecies romance going with the Vajra-avatar
>all Vajra start looking out for him

>>15426888

Singing isn't really magic in Frontier or Delta. Or at least, not what I saw of Delta. I did stop watching around about episode 18 or something since I found it tedious, so it may have changed in the last couple of episodes. Singing in Frontier is really just how people communicate with the Vajra. Outside that it has no other direct effects. The only other instance I can even recall that might be called magical is Ranka curing Sheryl, and that was by communicating with and controlling Vajra fold bacteria. What's more magical in effect is song boosting, which is really more down to fold crystals from what I recall. Something that continues in Delta. Actual singing in that doesn't do much except calm people according to Berger Stone if I recall, and even that's due to genetic programming along with some tech the Protoculture built that operates by singing.

The problem, at least for people who don't like it, is more that the shows after SDF integrated tech in such a way that singing in concert with it results in effects that almost indistinguishable from magic. Fold crystals, hologram outfits etc. make it look like magic is happening when the setting has techno babble/fluff that explains all of it.

Personally I don't really have a problem with that aspect. I still think SDF is the best Macross entry, and by a fairly large margin. I think it's more because it balanced it's elements well and had interesting and charismatic villains as well as protagonists and a decent plot - not because it's tech was mundane.

>>15429649
Why aren't her ears pointy?

>>15431724
zentradi genocide perpertrated by the ((((humans)))) has been forcing interbreeding on people destroying all racial purity