The suits in 00 really were overpowered weren't they. Or

>>15418791
As they should be..

>>15418791
The fact that they are powered by a super special power source and use quantum technology should tell you enough.
00 Qan[T] FUCKING TELEPORTS, not "H-HAYAI", it goes from point-a to point-b in an instant and without interruptions and apparently to extrasolar distances.

>>15418791
They're even stronger in the movie, which makes their huge nerf in SRW (post Z2) ridiculous.

>>15418791
Dude, I watched around 15 episodes of this shit and these mech rekt 3 armies, I know that gundams are cheat but thats too much.

>>15418791

Yeah. 00 decided to make their Gundams basically straight-up super robots.

Which sort of makes their message seem hollow, because they can only even attempt their plan because they managed to sneak in such a massive tech advantage that they can kill with impunity.

>>15421613
The entire point of the series was that tech advantage. You need that kind of tech advantage to communicate and possibly conflict with whatever lies beyond Earth

>>15418791
Yeah that shot annoyed the hell out of me theres no GN field or shit and that's a cannon cappable of one shotting battleships easily and all it does is scratch it alittle.

Almost as bad as DESTINY's 'flawless victory' crapfest though not quite due to S2 going super robot well before that scene.

>>15421613
That was a plot point, they could only do their shit because of the massive tech superiority they had and when the power blocs started to close the gaps they started to struggle

>>15418791
Setsuna stronk.

>>15421670
>no GN field
Do you not see the green bits in the OP?

>>15418791
It's less so the suits and more so the GN Particles.

GN Fields, really fucking high power outputs and the stupidly intense speed and power boost that is Trans Am

The savage part was when they gave that shit to Grunts so even 00s near-end game Grunts can easily curbstomp any main Gundams that isn't a Turn because why bother with that shit when you can warp a beam into a cockpit and perhaps the God Gundam.

Since this thread is still alive, I might as well admit I made this thread after watching GReco, and noticing how the suits had trouble maneuvering through water. Which made sense because they weren't made for that.
But then I remembered how the 00 suits basically didn't give a fuck, regardless of what environment they were in, including water. So I watched some 00 again and came to this scene.

GN particles are too stronk

>>15422464
>GN particles are too stronk

00's story essentially chronicles the rising of galactic golden age humanity, it better damn well be.

>>15422323
I like how active the arms race in 00 was. S1 Gundams can't even hold a candle to S2 grunts.

>>15422464
>GN particles are too stronk

>Gundams are near invincible, what do we do?
>let's wear down the pilots in a never-ending battle instead

The Taklamakan Desert operation was fucking great.

>>15422323
Throw G self perfect pack and G lucifer there too. Both of those fucks are strong as shit

>>15422519
You got to give credit to the S1 militaries, they really did do their best to compensate for the tech gap.

>>15422558
It was nice seeing them use tactics to try and gain advantage, rather than throw the prototype of the week at them, like some Gundam shows.

>>15422562
>Gundams are using advanced cloaking technology
>"why try to detect their cloaking when we can have them accidentally penetrate our sensor net?"

the swarm of thousands of cheap networked sensor buoys was an ingenious counter to GN stealth tech

>>15418791
That's why IBO is ten times better than this show.

GN particles are unrealistic as fuck. Meanwhile, we got giant robots here with more more realism bashing each other with giant maces.

>Also no beam hax.

>>15422596
Come on, IBO has paint on PS and I-field. Not exactly realistic even if GN particles are worse by far.

>>15422596
>not affected by guns
>affected by giant sticks

Can someone tell me why guns are basically useless in IBO while those giant maces can wreck you to death?

If I am right, guns releases more energy when shoot than beating a stick?

How the hell is even that realistic?

>>15422596
>magical indestructible eternal power reactors, mass produced to boot
>magical anti beam and AC+10 paint

At least they try to.explain GN Particles in the show even if it boiled down to "lol I dunno" and "magical fairy dust". IBO's explanation for Ahab Reactors in supplementary material was just random technobabble while it's just handwaved in the show.

>>15422616
The most effective weapons in IBO aren't sticks, it's Barbatos's mace which is the size of a small MS. And katanas I guess, but that's a meme weapon.

And two answer your question, maybe a larger caliber bullet delivers as much force as a rather small and lightweight hammer but if you were to compare a 9mm to a warhammer there would be no contest. And the warhammer is less likely to deflect on a hard, strangely shaped surface. And you have to keep in mind there is probably a relative difference in how effective the firing mechanism for ranged weapons in IBO are vs. the motors of a MS's limbs. Gundams in particular are super humans compared to normal MS so it's no surprise they definitely hit unbelievably hard with weapons that are probably nearly as massive as some MS.

Also, the most effective weapons in IBO are the dainsleif so guns aren't really useless, just the shitty ones are.

>>15421613
That's what makes the show interesting though. It's the power dynamic between the three blocs and celestial being. That's the only reason their plan works at all.

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>>15422519
>>15422558
>that bit where Graham kicks Dynames in the face
>that bit where he steals a gundams beam saber and cuts its arm off with it
>all in just a flag
Why is he such a best?

>>15421670
Their tech advantage was constantly balanced out throughout the series either from new machines or enemy battle strategies. The final battle, in particular, had nearly all Gundams wrecked beyond repair.

So no, it's nowhere near Destiny levels of "FLAWLESS VICTORY" as the Gundams aren't fueled by writer/director favoritism and the cost of victory is always shown in often graphic detail.

>>15422649
Literally all the Anime (There were a few side stories ones still active.) Gundams were destroyed by the end of Season 2. They were all destroyed during season 1 with the exception of a broken ass Exia that Setsuna barely made work again.

They constantly barely managed to scrap by in Season 2, with 00 Raiser being their ace in the hole and even it got beat around semi-regularly. Heck, they destroyed the Exia A THIRD TIME. The true horror that is Reborns Gundam with True GN Drives makes me wonder if it would have been on par with the Movie Gundams.

>>15422649
The gundams were wrecked after they fought off an actual army of jihadi jims that could trans-AM followed by the "generals" with special suits.

>>15422640
He also was the first to scrape some paint off Exia, while in a regular Flag to boot. The Brave was definitely on the level of high end Gundams in other settings, with the exception of magic like Black History Turn A and Super Saiyan Unicorn.

>>15422660
Unicorn, Neo Zeong, and Banshee to a lesser degree are reality warpers according to the Unicorn staff so there's no point in bringing them up at all in any power level discussion.

>>15422657
>The true horror that is Reborns Gundam with True GN Drives makes me wonder if it would have been on par with the Movie Gundams.

The late Tau drives with Trans-AM are on par with the true GN drives in performance. The only difference is that they particles are toxic, it's not a perpetual energy machine so it has a limit especially after Trans-AM, and it doesn't create true Innovators, not that it matters for Ribbons who as an innovade couldn't become one.

>>15418791
Yeah basically.

In season 1, they're basically pulling the Superman plot, only if it wasn't complete shit: "Assuming we have an all-powerful <Mobile Suit/Super Hero> how would that affect the world?" Also played to an interesting ending when the false drives allow the world militaries to catch up.

Season 2 disregards all that intrigue and just becomes a generic Gundam show. The point is that the POWER SOURCE is what makes them so powerful - they can run effectively forever because the drives are like miniature stars. I don't know why it wasn't suggested to try to destroy the drive from the outside (regardless of what power it's generating it's still made out of man-made, and thus, destroyable, materials). The power source can't do anything to enhance the physical properties of whatever it's attached to unless it applies some sort of particle coating, but to be fair most of the bullshit magic the GN drives can do fall into the same category.

>>15422680
Ribbons specifically complains that because Setsuna and the OO Raiser have two real GN Drives to his GN Tau Drives, he is having such a hard time beating Setsuna. He never hides the fact that he would love to have those GN Drives on the Reborns, because they are superior to his Tau Drives. The reason they fought so evenly is because the Reborns is a superior machine (performance-wise) to the OO Raiser, it was just suffering from not having the superior power source.

Tau Drives have battery concerns, and the latter Tau Drives are about as "toxic" as the real GN Drives by Season 2's beginning. That's why they are orange, not red. Arche's GN Particles are red though, so it probably still had toxic particles. It's Ali's machine, after all.

>>15422687
>they can run effectively forever
Only in theory. Operation of a mobile suit in battle (and especially Trans-Am) can drain a GN drive faster than it has the ability to recharge. It's why you hear the Gundam pilots frequently complain about running low on particles, and why they need to withdraw and put their suits into standby mode.

>>15422730
Well, I meant in terms of case by case battles. There's no way they'll fully run out even in a long campaign; they can only really be reduced to very low output because even at low energy it's still producing particles. In terms of centuries, yeah they'll probably stop working, just like real stars.

>>15422657
It seemed more like Ribbons' skill than the Reborns. The 00 did its teleport there the first time out of nowhere and he STILL managed to force a draw, or you could even count it as a win since Reborns could still move while 00 was totally wrecked.

>>15422661
It's not them, it's the psychoframes, so Nu and Sazabi too if you're counting Unicorn and Banshee.

Interviews said Unicorn and Banshee stopping the colony laser was only possible because of the Neo Zeong's psychoshard creating a giant psychofield (the red spider web effect is the AOE), and they just made use of it with their psychofrmes.

Technically only the neo zeong hasmade a psychofield big enough to warp reality.

>>15422810
>Alternate telling of Unicorn where the Psycoshard was never used.
>Unicorn and Banshee try to block the colony laser
>Get destroyed
>Just cuts to the military laughing their asses of at two idiots thinking that their MS could stop a colony laser.

>>15422810
What is the magic psychic crystal psychoframes are made of anyway? Metatron?

>>15422810
>Technically only the neo zeong has made a psychofield big enough to warp reality.
Well, the Neo Zeong did teleport itself and the Unicorn to the literal end of time

>>15422951

No, it didn't. It showed Banana and Frontal the universe's memories. Which is, in it's way, dumber frankly, but that's still what happened.

>>15422721
>Arche's GN Particles are red though, so it probably still had toxic particles. It's Ali's machine, after all.
He specifically left them to be toxic.

>>15422839
According to the wiki, the crystals are just physical manifestations of psychic energy forming during extremely intense situations. They're likely just the psycoframe overloading or evolving into a new state temporarily, as the psycoframe itself is made of a bunch of transmitters that control the Newtypes thoughts just being shrunken down to the size of an atom.

>>15422616
C'mon dude you are asking:

>why is the equivalent of shooting a tank with a M16 do less damage than hitting it with a missile or smashing it against another tank

>>15422620
>>15422625

The explanation is less convoluted than 00. The Ahab Reactor produces massive energy output that can be transmitted through the structural movement of the MS. Imagine swinging your arm has the same energy found in a railgun. This is why swinging weapons do more damage.

>>15422596

http://z11.invisionfree.com/gundam00/index.php?showtopic=699

GN Drives aren't real, but there's a good amount of thought gone in to how they work. More so than is required, even if that one dude also put more thought in than that staff of the show were likely to do. They're treated realistically within the context of the show, at least for the first season. While IBO doesn't have beam hax, it does have anti-beam hax, railgun hax, nanomachine hax and probably a few other kinds. Which are more plausible, but the show's use of them isn't really.

>>15422951
>>15422965
The official explanation is that the psychofield forms an enclosed area in which the psychoframe's user's will comes true.

>>15422839
>>15422968
Fukui said in the Great Mechanics interview that his interpretation is that psychoframe is Ideonite. The stuff that Ideon is made out of.

>>15423032

That's the official explanation for how a psycofield works (and what psycoframes do that allows things like the Axis miracle) but not the official explanation for what happened in that particular instance.

https://pastebin.com/eT7jMp7N

> Fukui wanted the time travel sequence to be just a vision, but Furuhashi felt that since the psychoframe can move entire stars it wouldn't be strange at all if they literally travelled through time. In the end they just settled on them flashing through the memories of the universe itself.

>>15423041
furuhashi is retarded

>nobody died in dakarl because it was the weekend, zeon did nothing wrong

>>15423042

I don't disagree with your general point, but pretending that he said that is pretty retarded too and doesn't help your point. All Furahashi ever said was that Dakar was less populated and the Federation used that lack of population as the reason/excuse for not declaring war on Zeon (given that none of them wanted to go to war in the first place) - not that Zeon did nothing wrong.

>>15423045
>in the OVA most of the damage done was to buildings because it was a holiday. People living at Torrington were affiliated with the army (soldiers and their family) so there was no declaration of war after that either. Frontal had no intention of starting a war, the attacks were mostly to let the Zeon remnants let off some steam.

also soldiers and their families aren't real people, you can kill as many as you like

>>15423048

Yes, I know the quote. And it doesn't say even remotely close to what your interpretation is.

>>15423051

Except the implication is that because soldiers were killed, and people related to soldiers were killed, they're apparently not worth retaliating over.

> People living at Torrington were affiliated with the army (soldiers and their family) so there was no declaration of war after that either.

Is that not a case of blatant dehumanisation, or is there some clause I'm not sure about which dictates that it's perfectly okay to rampage through a base and the surrounding city as long as those you kill are in/related to those in the military?

>>15423060
Don't forget

>most of the damage done was to buildings because it was a holiday

>as in there weren't many casualties because it was a holiday

I guess >>15423051 is just an autist who has to have everything be absolutely literal.

>>15423060

No, it isn't. The quote is that it was mostly infrastructure destroyed, but that the people living there were military or military affiliates and thus they didn't declare war. No where is there anything saying "thus they're not human", or that that's the only reason military personnel or military affiliated civilians living in a military complex would be considered acceptable targets - only that it was used as a reason to not declare war. Something no-one wanted in the first place, since from the Federation's side it would legitimize the Sleeves and from the Sleeve's side it would be counter productive to a plan centered on economic manipulation.

So yes, it is something you're unaware of. A military base is considered an acceptable target, including civilians that live there. Because any military strike will at least have a possibility of also hitting civilians, and attacking a base is 100% guaranteed to do so because a base will always have non-military personnel in and around it.

>>15423077

Even if the base is fair enough, what about Torrington itself? Are you meaning to tell me that Furuhashi believes that every single person Loni killed in her unrestrained spree was somehow either a soldier or a military affiliate?

I find that a little bit hard to believe.

>>15423081

You do realize I specifically called them military affiliated civilians once for a reason? I used the word civilians specifically because not everyone there is going to be serving the military in some respect, whether directly (a soldier) or indirectly (electrician on the base). Furahashi's entire point was that the city was nearly deserted and that the Federation didn't declare war because it was nearly deserted and the people (including civilians) who were killed could be viewed as acceptable targets. The Federation could still use it as a reason to declare war if that was what they wanted, but they didn't. They don't come off as wanting an open war at any point during the entire story. They used those things he mentioned as an excuse to not declare war because they didn't want to declare war in the first place.

>>15422616

It's because Mobile Suits are really, really dense. They're really hard to damage. Bullets just bounce off. The whole Suit is like heavy, heavy equipment - They're even immune to beam damage.

It's nearly impossible to do any serious damage. You need either a really lucky shot, a really large-bore gun, or immense amounts of physical trauma.

This is sort of why Gundam frames are so lethal. Their speed and strength is magnitudes higher than a typical Mobile Suit. So when Barbatos hits you, you literally explode as compared to the 'weaker' machines. (Notice how Hush dies because the cockpit is impaled - the rest of his suit is basically intact.)

>>15422323
>when you can warp a beam into a cockpit

Did this actually happen in the show?

>>15423115

Never.

>>15423115

No. The closest thing to it is the Turn-A disappearing at one point, which could conceivably be put down to teleporting the unit, but even in show Gym immediately puts it down to invisibility instead and has a possible explanation (bending light somehow using the beam sabers). The DOC station mentioned as where it teleports weapons from is featured though, as the weapon's station Loran finds all the old weapons in under Nocis. All the weapon's immediately crumble due to age and lack of care besides the hyper hammers though.

>>15423115
Half the point of Turn A was that nobody really had a clue what the thing was capable of. Or rather, used to be capable of since from all appearances even repair nanomachines weren't good enough to combat the damage sitting around unmaintained for centuries did.

>>15423115
It's from the G Generations Spirits game.

>>15423041
What the fuck are the memories of the universe?

>>15423012
More japanese scifi writers should be like the ones for 00, they actually researched their shit instead of just throwing random words like SEED and IBO didRemember the pocket sized quantum computers in SEED?

>>15424003
All Sunrise projects have tons of research going into them. They have their own research team. When Fukui was writing Unicorn Sunrise sent a team of consultants to make sure he got his space shit right because he wanted to write details about ships traveling.

>>15424003
SEED went way overboard with all the technobabble acronyms

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*dainsleifs your path*

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>>15424068

>>15424068
Thats going to do jackshit to something that can teleport

>>15421164
Well gundam 00 was built around a small group taking on the entire world so I can give them a pass.

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>>15421613
>Which sort of makes their message seem hollow, because they can only even attempt their plan because they managed to sneak in such a massive tech advantage that they can kill with impunity.
How does that hollow the message?

>>15424083
I wish they showed the whole thing.
But in any case that beam seems to have an effective range equal to the length of the moon

>>15422596
>super cheap and easy to apply spray paint that is immune to beam weaponry and absorbs impact making it immune to ranged weaponry unless it's an MS sized railgun and grows stronger based of the GN *cough* Ahab particles of the suit but it totally dies to melee weapons

>>15421072
Was there a given reason?

>>15422658
The suicide corps werent really armed though. They just exploded and the gundam had some good armor to withstand that. The biggest damage they did was making the gundams exhaust their trans-am to protect their ship.

>>15424288
Real robots M size and larger got bumped down an upgrade tier. They used to be in the 1900, but are now at 1600.

So now the OO units are just average, instead of the rape trains they were in Z2.2.

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>>15418791

I made two webms of the scene for you OP. One as is, and one with only the action and no character talking/face time since it'd slightly improve the quality I could make it at and still come in under 3MBs.

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>>15425061

>>15425065

I also made this (mostly) action only one of Termin-Exia's introduction. I might try and remake it tomorrow to get rid of the one scene of a guy shouting, and remake >>15425065 to get rid of the subs, along with making webms of the teleportation, Momento Mori battle, Alvaroon and some other stuff but for now I'm going to bed. If anyone has any requests I'll try and do 'em tomorrow too.

File: Termin-Exia.webm (3MB, 720x404px) Image search: [Google]

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>>15425071

Including the webm is often handy of course.

>>15425074
Man, Setsuna became a god tier pilot in those 4 years

>>15425081
Graham beat him with the Ahead Sakikage and nearly matched him with the Susanwo

I guess he got a little better but Graham's still clearly the better pilot, even when limiting himself to melee only even though Graham's a much better all-rounded than Setsuna.

>>15423986
retard