What kind of training regime would a well-prepared military put

>>15293580
>What kind of training regime would a well-prepared military put its pilots through?

And when I say pilots, I mean mecha-pilots.

Probably should have made that more clear.

>>15293580
>What kind of training regime would a well-prepared military put its [mecha] pilots through?

Ah, now this sounds like an interesting discussion. There hasn't been a LOT of this in anime, but we've seen it some.

Aldnoah Zero started with the heroes in school, and mecha training was part of their curriculum. They used orange trainer units. We've also seen trainer units in Gundam and Macross.

Gunbuster had some amusingly tongue-in-cheek mecha training scenes (mecha push-ups, mecha jumping rope, etc) but that's probably not what you're looking for.

The novel "The Forever War" by Joe Haldeman is a little old, and was about powered armor troops rather than full-sized mech pilots, but it had a good amount of training sequences in it. Scary training sequences! In the same vein, Starship Troopers (the book, not the appalling movie) had some mecha training.

>Would they start on trainer mechs before having them pilot the grunt models?

I would say so, yes. Variety of mecha is always good, and this is fertile ground. The VF-1D and VT-1 from Macross are good examples, as are the GM Trainer and Zaku Trainer types. The orange Cataphracts from Aldnoah Zero, too, fit into this idea. Heck, having pilots/cadets operate industrial mecha, and practice their skills doing loading/unloading, warehouse service, and dealing with supplies might be part of training (I'm reminded of Hayate Immelman's introduction in Macross Delta).

>Would there be centrifuge training to test the cadet's g-force limits?

If they're gonna be operating flight-capable mecha, or are gonna be going through airdrops or orbital-to-surface insertions and the like, then I should hope so.

>Would there be no-mecha training (Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape) for if they eject from their mech?

Definitely. As far as I know this is part of basic training -- at least a rudimentary version thereof. For mecha pilots, I'd imagine it would be vital.

>>15293580
Being able to take punches and slaps to the face for proper disciplining.

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Now that I think about it, if one is going to pilot something like a Variable Fighter, Mobile Suit, or other multi-environment, multi-purpose mech... I should think such a pilot would have to be pretty elite. They'd need all the training of a tank operator, a space pilot, an aircraft pilot, an infantryman, and a paratrooper too probably. Not to mention whatever other specialties they might have, such as sniping or artillery or demolitions or recon or electronic warfare... Man, it would be TOUGH.

>>15293580
>regime
It's regimen, regi men, regimen.

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>>15294013

It depends on the rules of the setting. If giant robots are piloted by some kind of neural interface (or largely by AI) then operating a mech might actually be a lot easier than flying a plane or driving a tank or piloting a spacecraft. In such a situation, you might not have to teach the pilot anything about controlling the vehicle -- because the pilot already knows how to control his own body, and controlling the mech is the same. In that case, that could be a strong argument for producing mecha instead of tanks, fighters, etc. And it would also make mechajocks LESS elite than fighter pilots or tank drivers.

>>15293580
>>15294007
Muv Luv Unlimited was entirely about a squad of recruits undergoing training. They started off with basic bootcamp stuff (fitness drills, weapons training) and did indeed have a survival exercise for precisely that eventuality. Once they passed that they had simulator training that began with just having them sit in the pods to get accustomed to the motion sickness, followed by movement practice then combat practice. Finally they moved on to live mock battle exercises in actual training units.

>>15294298
This is actually what happens in the Jovian Chronicles setting. At the heart of controling Exo-Armors is basically a linear-frame that lets the suit mimic your own movements; other commands are voice and macros as well as a few well placed command panels.

This means the mechs quickly became posterboys; you get to fill them with athletic jocks who can use them to do all sorts of glorious movements and fight effectively.

Meanwhile fighters are still controlled in standard fashion, though with much improved command and control systems (ranging from waldo gloves for fine manipulation of sensor booms to the ability to program attack macros on the fly), using the pilot's intellect (creativity) rather than agility.

The main advantage is thus the far larger pool of potential pilots for the Exo-Armor systems, as well as lower fuel requirements for maneuvering (AMBAC).

The main disadvantage is a fuckhuge cockpit rather than the tiny coffins a fighter has, which in an effort to keep PR has resulted in suits easily twice the size and mass of a combat vehicle with barely lower performance specs - and that's only because the newer generation of fighters and the like were delayed by so much R&D going to the PR machines.

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>>15293580

The training you describe is fighter pilot training. A "realistic" mech probably wouldn't be like a fighter jet, it'd be like a tank.

So, going by real-world tank training, there would be three phases:

>Phase 1, Basic Training
Basic soldiery, physical fitness, learning to follow commands, learning to fire small arms, etc.

>Phase 2, Advance Individual Training
Actually begin working with the Mech, practicing operating the mech, learn the basic mechanics and repair procedures, etc.

>Phase 3, On-Unit Training
After assignment to an actual unit, begin training to fulfill whatever role the unit requires, learning the SOP of the unit, learning more advance tactics from the more experienced members of the unit.

>>15293580
It will depend of the setting and the type of mechas used.

Before even piloting a trainer mecha, the trainee would need probably to have completed determined number of hours in the simulator, and also complete some theorical classes, like studing the specs, mechanical functions and specific parts, operation systens and controls, theoretical classes of tactics and combat maneuvers and etc. Then, after those are completed, the pilot trainee passes to pratical piloting in the trainer mecha, which he will probably need determined hours of pratical piloting and combat simulation before he is realesed for active duty. There is also the need of familiarization and training with types of weapons, in cases of mechas more in the lines of conventional mobile suits.

The time spended on this kind of training may also vary depending of the current situation of the force. iirc, today, in peace times, takes half a year to train a fighter pilot in the basics, simulation, training flights, etc. (I may be wrong in this one, though) In WW2, during the Battle of Britain, because of the heavy losses and need of quick personnel repositions, RAF shortened pilot training from three or four months to two weeks.

Should probably be there more training in field, like familiarization with enemy weapons, mechas types and tactics, instructions about moving in difficult terrain, camouflage course, etc.

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>>15293580
>trainer mechs

Trainer mechs is a cool idea you rarely see done.

I'd love to see a character who has to go on the attack using a trainer and that's how he gets the attention of the higher ups because he dominates with something meant for training not for war

>>15294836
Aldnoah was close, but screwed up by having the training units be superior to actual combat ones in some respects, and by having the protagonist succeed more down to analytical ability than skill (although being Inaho, he ALSO has more skill than anyone).

>>15294684
>two weeks

Seems like just a waste. I get trying to get troops out to the fight but can two week pilots do much more than takeoff and land?

Pretty much all of the episodes of Candidate for Goddess are about them undergoing training.

It's literally a vehicle. You drive it like a tank or a plane. You probably just need a license and whatever else shit Air Force pilots need. There'd be little in the way of training unless it's a mech like some samurai lightning bolt shit but in every anime some 12 year old just climbs in and wrecks shit and they're otherwise impossible to make so who cares.

>>15295769
>There'd be little in the way of training

How long do you think basic military training in our world lasts?

>>15295780
I mean it isn't some big endeavor to pilot a mech compared to other military vehicles.

>>15294836

You just described Aldnoah Zero.

LOVE that show. The second season was inferior to the first, but was still cool.

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>>15295610

Oh you're right! I forgot about that.

>>15295795
But that in itself is a huge endeavor with near constant training and drills.

>>15295769
>It's literally a vehicle. You drive it like a tank or a plane. You probably just need a license and whatever else shit Air Force pilots need.

You nut log! Do you have any idea how long it takes to become a fighter pilot?

I mean, first you have to become a commissioned officer. So you have to complete an ROTC program or have a four-year college degree, and then successfully complete Officer Candidate School, which involves 12 weeks of classroom and field-based training. Then...

In the US Air Force, after you are commissioned it takes approximately one year to accomplish undergraduate pilot training (UPT) , three months for IFF, a few weeks for SERE and water survival, and approximately six months for your fighter’s basic course. This translates to about two years from the day you started pilot training. Once you arrive at your first base, it will take you an additional 2 to 3 months to become mission ready (i.e., qualified to fly into combat).

>>15295769
>There'd be little in the way of training unless it's a mech like some samurai lightning bolt shit but in every anime some 12 year old just climbs in and wrecks shit and they're otherwise impossible to make so who cares.

Are you kidding me? Go back and read >>15294672

>>15295795
>I mean it isn't some big endeavor to pilot a mech compared to other military vehicles.

How the hell do you figure that??? I mean, yeah, in a lot of anime it's a total snap, but that is... highly improbable.

Assuming full-on mecha as a possibility (that's the premise of this whole discussion, you have to accept it to have this debate) and assuming we're trying to establish a somewhat realistic training regimen (as OP's post indicates), we're talking about a lot of training.

You are quite a silly person.

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http://work.chron.com/path-becoming-fighter-pilot-18008.html

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Much as I hate Robotech and Palladium Games, their supplement "RDF Accelerated Training Program" was rather fun and interesting.

https://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/classic/rev_4534.phtml

The book casts player characters as cadets in mecha combat school, with a series of simulations, exercises, player-against-player sparring, and other quick-run scenarios.

>>15293580
The only training you'll ever need is having a super mecha built by your dad and being in the middle of an enemy attack.

>>15295600
>Seems like just a waste.
And it kinda was, but it was necessary as RAF was outnumbered in the first stages of the battle of britan and british fighter production could quickly compensate the loss of planes during battle but not as quickly pilots for them. So they compensated by gradually shortening the training. The result of throwing trainees fresh from the course, with less of one hour of actual flying, without much gunnery practice and with little if no time to learn those life saving tips from the frontline veterans was kind of obvious: generally half of the pilots of those squadrons, or more, become casualities in the first week. But the gap needed to be filled, and it holded in the end.

>>15293580
Probably the same thing that IRL pilots get. Ground school would probably be a regular classroom-like information dump and a dummy cockpit. After graduating that, they'd move on to a basic training course where they would get some seat time in a user-friendly trainer mech that probably has a dual cockpit setup for instructor and trainee. If they complete the basic course, they'd be given their assignment and know what kind of mech they'd be specializing in. They'd spend some time in a trainer version of their assigned mech until they complete all their training criteria and be ready for deployment.

...Or just commission the first teenage boy that jumps into the pilot seat.

>>15293580
remove their knees

>>15296202

...to what end?

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>>15296409

So that we could have Dorf On Mecha!

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>>15293580

We're talking Japs here, right? Then look for something like the training that Imperial Navy pilots got in the decades leading up to WWII. Basically a hellcamp where you either graduate or you're injured terribly/dead. Go read Samurai! by Saburo Sakai, it's a great (if biased) view of this exact training.

>>15296791
>We're talking Japs here, right?

OP said "well-prepared military." Since Japan technically doesn't have a military, probably not.

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>>15296978

Yeah, and Japan has no Aircraft Carriers, right?

>>15296990

I don't know what you're talking about. That's obviously a new model of civilian tanker.

>>15293580

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCrY4Frdgn8

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>>15294836

T-38 a shit

T-6 true trainer waifu

>>15296990
That's a helicopter destroyer.

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>>15296409
In titanfall, its just a rumor based around the fact that wallrunning and performing parkour with thrusters on your back kills your knees pretty fast, so pilots get them replaced with mechanical linkages. Or they just opt for full prosthetic legs. Or you do what this guy did and go full insano and upload into a fully artificial body.

Come to think of it, an important part of training for giant robot pilots would probably involve falling over and getting back up.

You'd probably have to be well-trained to take care not to fall on friendly forces or civilians, and getting back up you'd need to know what could support your mech's weight and not get torn up by its grip.

That would actually be really interesting element of it.

>>15300859

Sorta like "Superman has to learn his own strength" arc

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>Git yer sissy ass in the gad damn robot, Private Shinji!

>>15300246

Reminds me if thunderbolt went full on robit.

>>15301728

How many problems would have been avoided if NERV had a SINGLE leader willing to put the children through discipline training?

>>15301676
>Sorta like "Superman has to learn his own strength" arc

Yes, precisely. Man, I'd love to see more stuff like this in an anime.

>>15302297
Probably not very many, because you're still forcing hugely damaged children to fight horrible monsters in circumstances that basically guarantee trauma.

All things considered, their actual performance was nothing short of heroic; Shinji jumped into a volcano to successfully save a fellow pilot and lots of expensive equipment, Rei prevented the glowing noodle angel from reincarnated the previously deceased ones from her Eva's body at the cost of her own life, Asuka fought off 9 MP units for a non-zero length of time during a psychotic episode with no backup.

This also doesn't do anything to mitigate the two or three world ending conspiracies circling each other, nor does it get Yui out of Unit 1, nor does it un-kill Ritsuko's mother, nor does it stop the Contact Experiment with Adam, nor does it remove SEELE, nor does it stop the JSSDF's special forces units being deployed to Tokyo-3, etc etc etc.

"Discipline training", whatever that is, wouldn't even be plaster on a sucking chest wound.

It'd be like putting a smiley sticker on a man with no legs and telling him to get up, there's a good chap.

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>>15302837

THANK YOU for saying this. I couldn't agree more. People love to dump on Shinji and the other Eva characters, but FUCK those people. The kids were amazing human beings.

>>15302893
I'd instead say that they could have been, had they not been born into a post apocalyptic world and raised by communities full of survivors likely riven with untreated mental problems arising out of said surviving of said apocalypse.

Given time and love, it could have been
daijobou, but that's not Eva.

>>15300246
>>15301842
The titanfall 2 robot player pilots have mental blocks installed to prevent them from realizing they are robots. The uploads think they are cyborgs with some organic parts, rather than brain-scans in a machine.

>>15295953

Have to agree with the reviewer, seems like a useless supplement

>>15300859
>Come to think of it, an important part of training for giant robot pilots would probably involve falling over and getting back up.

Turns out robot pushups are a great idea after all.

>>15302952
That's cool and all but what happens when they realize they no longer need to eat or breathe

>>15304605

If you have strong enough mental blocks to stop a person from looking in a mirror, you probably have mental blocks set up to make a person think "Did I eat today... Huh, guess I must of"

>>15294672
>A "realistic" mech probably wouldn't be like a fighter jet, it'd be like a tank.

It depends, are this mechs are an aerospace vehicles ala MSes? Or a clanky walking tanks ala Battletech?

We cannot really define what would be a "realistic" mech here m8, it all depends on future developements and needs. So you'd better just called it "land" mech if you want to define it like that.

>>15304589
maybe gunbuster was onto something after all

That aside, a two-man cockpit definitely sounds like the ideal model for a training unit. Of course, to fit the additional person, you'd have to probably cut some corners or just make it outright a little bulkier, but extra armor just gives the rookie more room for error, right?

The way I see it, the controls are set up, such that both pilots have the same set of controls, but since that means two people are handling movement and fighting at once, you'd be able to, say, have the rookie handle movement and dodging, while the veteran does the fighting.

I'm sure two really close people could use it effectively, possibly even better than a single man piloting it.

>>15294852
I don't remember the training units being better, unless you're talking about something like they being less armored meant they could be faster or some other bullshit, from what I remember he just kept his training one because it didn't really matter what they used since it was supposed to be a OHKO if they got hitof course the anime ignored this whenever he got hit

>>15295913
Odd. Any other time I've seen that show mentioned here it has come with mention of implication that it's shit.

Of course that goes for most shows mentioned here, so I shouldn't be surprised.

In terms of Gundam, I forgot the source but it said that the control scheme for mobile suits was simple enough that even a middle schooler could pilot it. The training done is to gain experience rather than actually controlling the MS.

>>15294013
>VF pilot
>elite
VFs are portrayed to be easy to pilot but hard to master as far as we can tell, especially the later VFs.

They share mostly the same control scheme as a destroid when in battroid mode so even a specialised destroid pilot can pilot a battroid VF if needed(And vice versa, as Hikaru once demonstrated).
Hell, Sheryl, a complete newbie(who most probably only had some theory lessons on flying) managed to fly a gerwalk VF somewhat decently, she just couldn't fight or do any form of advanced maneuvering that would prevent her from being shot down.

>>15306637
He explicitly states that it has better propulsion than the regular units (and grumps about it when given one of those to use). It comes off as more dumb Inaho wank to show how sooooo much cleverer than everyone else he is dontchaknow?

I don't actually mind Inaho though, I just don't care for how he's usually handled.

>>15306654
Eh, it's okay, just not great. It has its moments and its merits (it looks and sounds fantastic even if nothing else), as well as its flaws.

As you say, people here will call everything shit because it's not cool to like things and most works really aren't all THAT bad, so ultimately whether you enjoy a show or hate it is often down to whether you deliberately decide to accentuate the negative and ignore the positive in your own mind, or if you just roll with it and see how you feel.

>>15306738
>control scheme for mobile suits was simple enough that even a middle schooler could pilot it.

Or so easy that literally skimming the control manual for two minutes allows you to master it.

>>15310300
You mean Amuro? He was skimming the manual for a few minutes, then had a fight where he literally had it on open his lap looking up the commands. He only mastered it after months of intensive combat.

>>15310300
>>15310498
I mean, we also know that he's pretty tech-savvy, considering he was the one that made Haro, right.

>>15296791

>"Recruit training melted into a blur of drilling, studying, training, the vicious swings of the sticks and the always painful buttocks, the bruised and blackened skin, the wincing upon sitting down." - pg. 21

Kinky

>>15313836
whew, laddie

>>15295961

Your dad still has to train you to look in the glove compartment for the gun

>>15293580
They would need SHARP training.

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>>15323224

Why the fuck did you remind me... So many hours lost to fucking stupid powerpoint presentations on how not to rape people...

>>15323262
You should probably blame the guys who went and did all that rape, then