http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/new s/2017-02-27/macross-del

There's nothing wrong with Delta, western otaku just have shit taste.

>>15261091
Most of Walkure's music sucked, and the ones that didn't outright suck didn't have staying power.

>>15261095
>There's nothing wrong with Delta
No, there's a fair amount of things wrong with Delta. Walkure's alright though

>>15261098
Shit taste confirmed.

>>15261099
>No, there's a fair amount of things wrong with Delta
No, it's just your shitty western tastes.

Thank god anime isn't made for western audiences.

>>15261098
>Most of Walkure's music sucked,
No u

Wasn't new Love Live airing last year? As far as I know it was top selling anime of 2016. How could Walkure's album beat them?

>>15261109
Japanese fans weren't very happy about anime as well.

>>15261095
>There's nothing wrong with Delta
There's plenty of wrong with Delta, but it is better than Frontier.
>western otaku just have shit taste.
Truth. Those are the idiots who think M7 is not great.

>>15264956
I liked Frontier more.
But I agree, people who think 7 is the worst should kill themselves, because its great.

>>15261091
>I knew Walkure would be the one thing that managed to justify Delta existing.

Man if Delta exists only for the music then Macross is truly dead. It ain't no mecha franchise anymore, just a sleazy way to sell bottom of the barrel j-pop drivel to masses of fujoshis and otakus without any social life.
Enjoy shit 'cause that's all Macross will deliver from now on.

>>15264976
You just described DYRL.

>>15261095
>There's nothing wrong with Delta,

except the plot and general handling of the characters and story

>>15264961
I liked Delta more than F mainly because it had
1) more likeable MCs
2) interesting adversaries who are not just "lol zerg hivemind"
That being said, there was not nearly enough focus on mecha, songs were not fitting to the action scenes, triangle missed one corner and secondary plotlines were all over the place. But it is bashed for having an idol group (yeah, that totally doesnt fit the Macross, amirite gaaaaiz?!) and flat characters, while Frontier seems to be praised as some kind of golden standard. I can't fucking understand that.

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>>15265004
Frontier has had a decade and two movies to mellow out the 'wtf its got grils ewwwwww' underage/overnostalgic fags who shitposted it in 2008.
Also I personally thought that Delta didn't feel like it had a definite end to it, while Frontier had a conclusion to its story, where the adversaries fucked off permamently and the MC achieved his goals.

Delta definitely isn't the Worst Macross Ever, though.

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>>15265004
>2) interesting adversaries

The windys. Really? That's who you think is more interesting? A race of people too retarded you wouldn't want them to handle sharp scissors let alone a space nuke?

>>15265004
>who are not just "lol zerg hivemind"

Man, you are seriously retarded. Roid's grand master plan was the exact same as Grace's, to turn all of humanity into a hive mind because ripping off that particular plot point from Evangelion without any of the context that made it interesting in the first place is the surest way to out yourself as a fucking hack writer.

>>15265018
>That's who you think is more interesting?
Then Common Conciousness Alien Bugs #83757? Any day of the week.
>>15265030
>Roid's grand master plan was the exact same as Grace's, to turn all of humanity into a hive mind
That war Roid's plan. Kingdom of Winderemere helped UN Spacy to stop him, but they still are separatists and the whole series plot was about it. Roid's mumbo-jumbo was an addition on top of that, you can write him out and still have a story. Now remove the "ACHKCHWALLY vajras are just misunderstood" part (which changes nothing really - they still have to be dealt with) from Frontier and you are left with antagonists with the motivation and character of forest fire.

>>15265051

The bugs where at least a credible threat.

>>15265056
"Overpowered" and "Credible threat" are not synonymous.

>>15265058

Yeah and neither is space retarded

ITT: shit taste westerners cry about a show they're not even the target audience for

Actually scratch that ITT, that's pretty much all of /m/

>>15265134

ITT: A retarded weab pretends to ignore poor quality works because the Japanese like it and he really wishes he where one.

>>15265137
>proving the point
Thanks!

>>15265147
>He thinks he had a point.

>>15265163
Look man, I'm gonna make this easy.

Every time you try to "insult" me with another assblasted reply, it only proves me right about how anally devastated you and faggots like you are. So just tuck your tail between your legs and slink away before you make an even bigger fool of yourself.

>>15265051

The old king seemed unlikely to want to negotiate peace even if you removed Road. The Prince was open to it, because he was a child and more peaceable by nature. The king Road killed didn't give off that vibe though.

>>15265137

Japs didn't like it that lunch either. It did better than most things of the last few years by the looks of things, but was nowhere near Frontier's success and seemed to have a fair few detractors there too. Walkure themselves seem to be a lot better received than Delta itself.

>>15265168
>Internet tough guy

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>>15265176

>>15265180

Posting the image of the most braindead character in Delta doesn't do you any favors.

>>15265180

Space Retarded

>>15265172
> Walkure themselves seem to be a lot better received than Delta itself.
Maybe before the anime proved to be a stinker. The first album, which was the one that did truly make money, came out at Delta's peak.

>>15265241
you got a source for that claim?

>>15265251

The date of release is just a google away

>>15265172
Prince Heinz surely is more open to negotiations but it does not mean that he will just order the capitulation and hand the nation over. The show made it clear that NUNS idea of peace is "You are our bitches and if you are not agree with that, choke on that dimensional bomb, faggots". Then, when retaliation begins, they rely on the tearjerking image of crying idoru-chan begging separatists to stop and submit their asses to federal government. The show also made zero effort to show why they want to be separate that bad and showed little to no actual war, even in the last episodes.

>>15265172
>Japs didn't like it that lunch either.
I mean, you should probably look up how Delta did in numbers compared to everything else that aired last year. Just because it didn't break the charts like F did doesn't mean it was poorly received

I mean, it is not very good at all, but I don't think it was poorly received in Japan

>>15265288
>Just because it didn't break the charts like F did doesn't mean it was poorly received

For a big name like Macross, it kind of does. This isn't some rando dark horse series that was built out of nothing they put a lot into backing this.

>>15265288
You should have seen the anger on 2ch bro.

>>15265291
I mean, as a comparison it's not like any Gundam series has done even remotely close to the same numbers as Unicorn or 00 either

>>15265288

I didn't say it was poorly received. I said it did okay, especially compared to most things in the last few years, but that a lot of Japanese people weren't fans of it, not just Westerners.

>>15265293
>2ch
>counting for anything

That's like saying 4chan speaks for the general public.

>>15265282
> The show made it clear that NUNS idea of peace is "You are our bitches and if you are not agree with that, choke on that dimensional bomb, faggots".

To be fair, the war with Windemere just fucking proves that the NUNS were right all along.

They go to Windmere, bring their advanced technology, and annex the planet the same as they have done the last 5 worlds they found. We are given no reason to believe that the Windies were in any way mistreated, they were just super fucking salty that they were not the top dog. Hell, the NUNS let windemere even HAVE A MILITARY, which isn't something you do for what you consider an oppressed population.

But Windemere is too 'muh wind' to just enjoy the ride, so they revolt and kick the NUNS off planet. In the process a Dimension bomb gets dropped and it creates such a clusterfuck that the NUNS pulls out because things have clearly gotten out of hand and no one is sure what the fuck is going on anymore.

And then you know what happens? The NUNG says "Fine, you can keep your shitty planet. You can even keep all the FREE FUCKING TECH we gave you, you tremendous assholes. When you want to play ball, we'll be here." And what follows is 7 years of peace and even trade between windemere and the rest of the cluster.

...Until Windmere uses that trade to proliferate a chemical weapon amongst the civilian population, triggers a wave of terrorist attacks and eventually breaks out into open war and takes several planets before threatening the entire galaxy.

If I was a NUNG politician, MY takeaway from this is "Letting planets we have made contact with do their own thing relatively peacefully bites us in the ass. The next time someone doesn't wants to be independent we bomb them into submission and take their world by force. Because the last time I played nice, I got mind controlled from across the galaxy."

>>15265493
NUNSfag

>>15265505

NUNs didn't blow the shit out of Windemere when they had the chance and nearly lost control of the galaxy as a result. Thats the plot of Delta.

>>15265493
Don't forget the use of mind control, enslaving people. mind fucking whole planets and planning to 'liberate' the galaxy through the judicious use of mind control.

Windshits are basically Zeon with the self righteous hypocrisy turned up to 11.

>War just stops
>It doesn't end. No peace is established. The Windies just fuck off
>Shota king even says the equivalent of "we'll get you next time"
>Show just ends there, no movie fuck you

>>15265592
I wouldn't be surprised if the entire war is resolved in supplementary material and the Windshits won and the NUNS got BTFO. The writers seemed to have a real hard-on for the Windshits.

>>15265581
> Windshits are basically Zeon

No, Windshits are the ultimate japanese revenge fantasy for WW2. This is why they never get their just desserts by the end of Delta, and why they go on to eclipse the supposed main characters.

Windemerens are a 'proud people' with a 'rich martial culture' who want revenge on the larger, more powerful superpower (USA) that dropped the bomb on them (nukes) and traumatized their whole culture.

They don't have the numbers to win a conventional war (because Japan is small) so they get handed plot devices to make themselves unbeatable. Meanwhile, the windemerens prove to be just flat out better than their enemies time and time again in basically any test of skill.

They fight for their king (emperor), and the whole basis of their plan is that they are the true heirs to the protoculture (the master race), a claim that is fully validated by the end of the show.

And none of the invasion of the globular cluster is 'evil'. Windemere isn't the villain at the end, Roid is. Not because he is using a mind control weapon, but because he betrayed Japa- I mean Windemere.

tldr: Windemere is space Japan who really was the master race all along and reclaimed their imperial history to fight back against the superpower that made them feel weak.

>>15265598
You could say Zeon is WW2 Japan too, only made by a generation who knew how full of shit WW2 Japan's leaders were, so they had the good sense to make Zeon lose. Pretty much agreed on the Windmere as 'Japanese WW2 revenge fantasy' though.

>>15265650

Yeah. Zeon totally has Japanese imperialist tones, with a dash of nazis for flavor. Its funny, because 0079 made sure you knew Zeon was the bad guys and that Gihren was literally Hitler, but since then Zeon has been romanticized and apologized for again and again.

Windimere is like that, but jumping straight into the zeonwank pool instead of starting in the shallows and moving there over time.

It worries me when I see Japan go wishfully nationalistic like this. I'd really hate for them to do something stupid.

But we can all agree Freyja a best right?

>>15265706
Go look at Russia. We could have been the rightful leader amongst the used-to-be Empire states to whom all of them look upon, not trying to escape to literally any alliance they can to deal with our influence. The only thing needed from us was just be fucking nice to neighbours. But no, fuck that, let's go full imperialist mode and alienate even Belorussia, with whom we basically formed a new common state.

>>15265822

She was okay I guess. Forgettable really, since she was fun for the first few episodes but the show didn't do anything interesting with her, her races differences or her abilities or condition. What's a little depressing about it is that they had the setup for some interesting stuff, like her having a shorter life, sacrificing vitality for power and being afraid to tell people about weakness or confront problems - and them the show just ignores them and finishes.

>>15265254
no, I mean the source for the claim that the second album didn't do as well as the first

>>15265493
>To be fair, the war with Windemere just fucking proves that the NUNS were right all along.
"All along" here is basically just several years within probably half of windermerean lifetime from the first contact with NUNS to the events of Delta. Usually it was way more time between colonization by a technologically advanced society and developement of national identity and separatism, and way more reasons for it than Delta have showed.

>>15265905
>What's a little depressing about it is that they had the setup for some interesting stuff, like her having a shorter life, sacrificing vitality for power and being afraid to tell people about weakness or confront problems - and them the show just ignores them and finishes.
Man, this. When she literally began to decompose alive after an emptional song i thought she will die at the last episode sacrifising herself for Immelman or for stopping Roid, but no, the whole theme was just kinda left hanging. As pretty much every other theme in the show.

>>15265923
>As pretty much every other theme in the show.

Seriously. Its sort of baffling how much the show just utterly fails to address or resolve. The war, Freya's increasingly limited lifespan, Mirage having any kind of development, Reina and Makina's... whatever the hell is going on between them. Arad and Kaname's literally anything. Lady M.

Or how about the entire Epsilon group. They name scheme come directly in line with Delta platoons, and they are the only ready Windemere manages to be as big a threat as they become before they just piss off because the stakes are getting too high. And the merchant of exposition never gets a rebuttle for his views on music, which as they are left standing retroactively taints the entire message and meaning of the Macross franchise by making music explicitly a weapon of war.

The whole thing feels like we are left hanging with a Part 1, to be resolved in Part 2 with Delta fighting Epsilon group and probably teaming up with Windemere to do it. But I don't think thats the plan anymore.

>>15266030
>The whole thing feels like we are left hanging with a Part 1, to be resolved in Part 2
Even with new Macross project in 2018, i doubt it will be Delta season 2. And i don't really think they plan the second part because there is no signs of it in the show aside from hanging plotlines. It is a shame, really - i liked Delta for the main characters and Windermere pilots, way more than i did like Frontier back in the day, and i still do - but the final was very disappointing. Why did they even needed to separate the Delta flight from Walkure? Neither of them recieved enough attention is a result of that.

>>15266075

I disagree. Combining Delta with Walkure to reduce character pool wouldn't have solved Delta's issues. Other shows manage just as many characters just fine, Deltas writers just didn't put in the effort. Even our main trio (Freya/Hayate/Mirage) had basically nothing done with them.

Competent writers would have been able to better manage their cast, and weak writers wouldn't have been saved by having fewer characters to focus on because they couldn't do anything with characters that had all the spotlight anyway.

> the final was very disappointing

You can say that again. What makes the ending of Delta sting twice as much is that not only was the writing lame, but they couldn't even bother to make it fun to watch either. No big awesome final fight, no big awesome final song. Just the same shit they have been singing for the past 10 episodes, Freya does the same thing she did in episode 13, and like 2 seconds of Keith pulling out a bitchin sword. Episode 13 was a stronger 'finale' in every way, despite not being a finale.

>>15265198
She was literally the only good thing about the show

>>15265706
>It worries me when I see Japan go wishfully nationalistic like this.

What you say about Marines taking down sentinent giant spacefaring ancient alien war robots with handheld weapons?

>>15265706
>It worries me when I see Japan go wishfully nationalistic like this. I'd really hate for them to do something stupid.
lol it's just a robot cartoon chill out

>>15261091
The only reason people will dislike Walkure's music is because the anime itself sucked. If the anime sucks, everything including music and mech designs will suck also. Delta has great songs but the bgm itself could've been better.

>>15265706

Tomino wrote Gihren and one or two others to be an obvious bad guys. He wrote most everyone else, from Degwin on down to be morally neutral at worst, and the show didn't actually condemn Zeon's actions in dropping colonies or gassing people (not that that was part of the mythos of the original show if I recall). Hell in the novels the crew of the White Base joins with Char after Amuro dies and helps Side 3 who kind of win if I recall the summaries of it (haven't read it personally). The point of 0079 was to make both factions morally neutral, even if they had some definitely bad people peppered through the ranks, not to have one definitely bad faction. And most everything else that followed 0079 has upheld that. I've never personally gotten all the "Zeon wank" talk, because most everything people get riled up about has it's base in 0079.

>>15266918

Or they don't actually like the songs, possibly even the genre. I guess it's impossible people don't like a thing though, and Walkure obviously produce objectively good examples of a highly subjective creation.

>>15265706
>Zeonwank
I'm sick of this meme, Zeon and the Feddies were never black and white. 0079 clearly showed decent and shitty people on both sides. Really getting tired of people that believe later installments like Unicorn started it.

>>15266982
>Zeon and the Feddies were never black and white

No, but it's clear that who is the darker shade of grey. And it ain't the Federation.

Zeonwank is not so much a product of the show creators as much as it is a product of the viewers. Zeon fans can't cope with the fact that Zeon ultimately loses, and none of the cool Zeons characters or mono-eye suits can change that, so they try very hard to justify Zeon.

This annoys normal people, and when that happens long enough, the next time they see something that might be interpreted as depicting Zeon favorably, they call it Zeonwank believing that it's material created to cater to the first group.

soundcloud 2easy

stream 24 walkure songs

>>15267306
Zeon had the right goal, but always the wrong means.

Feddies were genuinely awful to the spacenoids.Yet they had good guys on their side every so often.

>>15271890
>Zeon had the right goal, but always the wrong means.
How is replacing federal government with fucking feudalism is the right goal?

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>>15261091
I'm glad, I actually liked Delta

>>15261095
>western otaku just have shit taste.
you say that as if japanese otaku don't

>>15272181
Exhibit A: Kemono Friends.

>>15272180
>i-i didn't once eat with others
Quit fucking with me here lady, you was at Freya's birthday, you was a frequent in that bar at Ragna, your bullshit isn't cute, it is stupid.

>>15272186
Kemono Friends is great.

>>15261095
>There's nothing wrong with Delta, western otaku just have shit taste.

History has shown time and time again that when it comes to evaluating an anime show, japanese otakus are just as braindead or even worse than western fans are. The difference is just that their shit taste is different from our shit taste.

>>15272174
People tend to take the Zabi's rhetoric at face value for some bizarre reason

>>15267306
>No, but it's clear that who is the darker shade of grey. And it ain't the Federation.Zeonwank is not so much a product of the show creators as much as it is a product of the viewers. Zeon fans can't cope with the fact that Zeon ultimately loses, and none of the cool Zeons characters or mono-eye suits can change that, so they try very hard to justify Zeon.This annoys normal people, and when that happens long enough, the next time they see something that might be interpreted as depicting Zeon favorably, they call it Zeonwank believing that it's material created to cater to the first group.

The only Gundam show in the UC to depict Zeon as the bad guys is Gundam 0079 (or the movie trilogy). After that and because japanese viewers were attracted to the Zeon point of view (kind of like the underdog is alway right) the franchise degenerated into a Zeon wankfest.
Any Gundam show that has Zeon in any capacity will show them in positive light and the Feddies in negative light. And this has been going on for decades. Who's fault is it ? Well you might blame the viewers but lets be honest here : it's the producers that are to blame. They're the ones continuing to do ever more Zeon wankfest. It doesn't matter if Zeon is ultimately doomed, we need to have them portrayed as the good guys cause militarism and nazi symbology that's cool.

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Let's talk important things here.
SV-262. How did you like them?
Personaly, i think tthat the tailless variable fighter is a good idea, but they appear a bit too futuristic and have weird painted cockpit which makes them similar to drones in Ace Combat 3.

>>15272214
>The only Gundam show in the UC to depict Zeon as the bad guys is Gundam 0079
And Zeta. And ZZ. And CCA.

>>15272212
"Principality of Zeon" is not rhetoric, it is the form of government.

>>15272221
I was talking about the Spacenoid Independence shit. People, for some bizarre reason. actually think post-Zabi Zeon gave two shits about this as opposed to the dictatorship they actually wanted

>>15272215
>SV-262. How did you like them?

The airplane was fine, the virtual cockpit was shit.
What the fuck is wrong with a glass canopy anyway ? It's not like the SV-262 is thought controlled.

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>>15272215
The Sv.262 has a tail.
Perhaps you meant to talk about the cranked delta wing?
Also, the solid cockpits have been a thing in Macross for a while now.

>>15272216
>And Zeta. And ZZ. And CCA.

CCA is the direct sequel to 0079 so of course Zeon are the bad guys. But even there you can see scenes where people civilians in the colony are cheering Char because he wants to fucking estinguish life on earth ? Even here they're trying to portray Zeon in a positive light !!!

In Zeta and ZZ, well in Zeta Zeon is not the primary antagonist, but even when they appear it's all about restoring the greatness of Zeon and blah blah blah. As if the OYW and the colony drops and the billions of people dead because of them never ever happed.

In ZZ the fucking Zeon are still dropping colonies on earth but hey it's cool. And poor Judau he's misguided. That's why he left the fucking earth system for jupiter with his waifu. He couldn't deal with all the Zeon wankestery going on.

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>>15272225
I think the virtual cockpits are fine.
It differentiates it from the standard VF's.
Maybe now that the Sv. designation has been brought back, they'll be the "high tech" unconventional fighters while the VF's are the more standard fighters.

>>15272226
>Perhaps you meant to talk about the cranked delta wing?
Yeah, that.
>Also, the solid cockpits have been a thing in Macross for a while now.
Recon it is plain cheaper and easier to animate. Still, i agree with >>15272225, is is shit.
Who has the screenshots of that training VFs that appeared on pre-war photographs with White knights and NUNS pilots? They looked like F-104s, and were cool. It would be interesting to see more designs based on 3rd gen jet fighters.

>>15272226
>Also, the solid cockpits have been a thing in Macross for a while now.

Why don't the good guys ever use valkyries with solid cockpits ? Because glass canopies are cool, I just don't get why the antagonists are forced to use solid cockpits. If it were an advantage you'd think the un spacy (or their future equivalent) would use them. I just think the use of solid cockpits in an airplane is dumb. An airplane is not a navy ship with a CIC. The pilot needs to see all around. What happens when the cameras are taken out ? He can't see shit. At least with a glass canopy if it's broken you can still see through it.

>>15272249
>I just think the use of solid cockpits in an airplane is dumb.
You think right. If the pilot basically flies airplane with remote controls, why don't just place him at the base and use the space in the fuselage for additional fuel/ammo instead?

>>15272283
Latency issues?
Why not just put an AI oh wait psychopathic vocaloids.

>>15272196

Yeah. I'm honestly not sure why they waited so long to give Mikumo a personality. Its not like it was even that much of one, but it was just

> boy, I wonder if Mikumo is going to do something this episode. No? Okay, maybe next time...
> oh wow, 4 whole episodes leading up to some big amazing reveal about Mikumo. I wonder what it-
> Bwu-really? She's a clone? That's fucking IT? All of the Zentradi are clones. Hell, half the humans are either clones or have clone parents. Literally who gives a shit, I thought you were a protoculture survivor or some shit.
> And... none of the other characters actually care and everyone just treats her the same anyway. Why did you bother dragging this out for so long? You could have done this shit back in speidoes 7 or something and saved us a fuckton of time.

>>15273055
>speidoes

Fucking autocorrect. Episode.

>>15273055
Remember that moment in Ep1 when Makina turned out to be a military nerd? Yeah, me neither, 'cause personality-wise it went fucking nowhere and was never adressed again.
Remember that in Ep1 Reina was shown working as team's coordinator and local AWACS operator? Me neither, cause that was never shown again. But hey, she is HACKEEEIING SHITE now like noone's business. It will even be explained in the flashback episode.
Them two being deep into each other's arse despite being different as fuck? Screw character developing, why would you see that? We'll just throw two additional lines about it in the flashback mentioned above.
Et cetera, et cetera.

>>15273055
To be honest, the whole Walkyre band was a dead weight on the plot since any kind of development really happened only between Freya and Immelman.

>>15273097
>Reina and Makina's entire backstory was "they used to not get along, but now they do"
>The end

>>15272285
>Latency issues?

Not in the post-Frontier world.

>>15273156

The two of them apparently becoming friends (and possibly more) because Mikumo song brain-washed them was pretty hilarious. Dumb, but funny.

>>15273156
>"they used to not get along, but now they do"
>that line was literally narrated by Kaname

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>>15261091
Well, no surprise here. Delta completely deflated in the second part, but it sure had some pretty good, catchy songs. At least 3(out of 21?). Boy, do I love me some sax and trumpet.