>manipulates the ruling government behind the scenes and tricks

>>15218437
that's what makes characters interesting, when they do hypocritical things that go against what you believe them to be. it makes you create connections in your mind as to why they would have such a large paradox in their character.
aka rly makes u think

>>15218437
All I can tell you is that if you're expecting anything in Wing to make sense, you'd better get used to disappointment.

>>15218437
it's about responsibility

if there's nobody pulling the trigger, responsibility becomes very abstract and too vague for honor to exist. It only remains as a legal technicality.

So it's about the conditions of possibility of honor and dishonor, not about being a dick to your enemy.

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>>15218437
>trying to understand character motives in Wing

This is where you fucked up, OP

>>15218437
I never cared for this man's bullshit when watching Wing.

>>15218450 is right.

Because Mobile Dolls are about more than just a lack of honor. Soldiers have morality, even if only a tiny bit, thus they can fight for concepts of right and wrong.

What Treize feared was the worst-case scenario for drones. The possibility where if you make an all-machine AI army, it causes the existence of a massive fighting force that possesses no capability for guilt or conciousness and follows all orders given unquestioningly, which was OZ's goal the whole time. If that army's big enough there's literally nothing stopping someone that's power-hungry behind the control to say "I want to conquer half the world"

>>15218481
>The possibility where if you make an all-machine AI army, it causes the existence of a massive fighting force that possesses no capability for guilt or conciousness and follows all orders given unquestioningly, which was OZ's goal the whole time

Doesn't that make it Trieze's plan too? The series paints him as a villain in the beginning but once mobile dolls show up he starts acting less antagonistic.

>>15218555

No, he never approved of the mobile doll program. He wants an army of people.

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>>15218555
Treize's goal is to unify humanity around something that creates peace. Then commit suicide by gundam as soon as humanity is finally unified.
About his personality. In a lot of ways he views himself like a Knight fighting for a better future. His means to get there are questionable, but it's what he does. For example think about how he speaks against Lady Une's actions pretty early.

Oz was the first means to accomplishing it, the earth sphere alliance was a failed state (military dictatorship) without the trust in space or wealthy civilian backing. Oz unites people first against the status quo that the ESA represented. It's part of why Oz re-establishes the Sanc kingdom, and crowns Queen of Earth Relena. The nobility based system Oz offers is supposed to be different. Treize likes this it's a step towards peace, with soldiers fighting for noble ideas.

When the mobile doll is introduced Treize can't stand it because it removes the human element completely from war. This goes against his knight like ideals of honorable duels between humans. There's no longer someone having to personally shoot all the women and children in the town they're destroying. It's all clean there's no doubt or remorse. No chance to spare an opponent or show mercy. They go against everything he believes himself to stand for. If you don't see it just look at epyon it's a suit without a single ranged weapon, why because treize's ideal combat is an honorable duel between men. Poor guy was born in the wrong timeline should have been in FC, so instead he became according to AC public opinion the hero of earth.

>>15218437
Call it old-fashioned.

>>15218437
In one word, standards.

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>>15218437
Autocrats that rule through talent rather then politics can be pretty confusing.

Especially since there are few real world examples.

>>15218437

Treize knew that mankind would shoot themselves in the foot one time or another, The Alliance would screw with the peace treaty later, and the colonies would go Full ZEON with the help of the Bartons.

>>15219024
Pretty much what anon said

>>15218437


none of the Wing characters make any sense

>>15218555

Trieze wanted an army that followed him because they respected him, which means he has to keep their respect less he turned on them.

With mobile dolls you'd just have an army of kill bots that would burn and pillage anything you pressed the switch to make them to, without you having to do anything to gain their loyalty.

He wanted an old style nobility where the nobility had an obligation to look after their underlings because the system would fall apart without them and not just anyone with the most money could buy unquestioning drones and be as rotten an asshole as they liked.

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>>15218437

You missed that point where Treize constantly dwells his own personal responsibility for human lives being lost as a direct result in the coup attempt--regardless of whether or not the world's body politic is better or worse without the Alliance (OZ would argue better, and so would the Colonials, ironically enough). The man is obsessive enough that he has himself constantly updated on every single casualty since he came to power.

Autonomous war machines suggest "Hey, we can take the human out of the war equation--no one will die, it'll be awesome." It's irresponsible because it ignores the considerable suffering and loss of life brought upon by fighting with mobile dolls because fuck everyone else so long as men in uniform (like Treize or for that matter Noin, Zechs, etc.) don't have to get hurt. It's very irresponsible.

>>15218451 is also correct. There's the notion of personal morality in warfare, and also the overall morality of conflict.

Gundam Wing, for all its problems, managed to accurately predict the moral dilemma data-driven drone campaigns in Pakistan, Yemen, etc., as to what happens when one side completely divorces itself, or comes close to it, from the cost of the war it chose to start.

>>15218437
He had a hard life

>>15218437
Wing is shit and the writers have no idea how human beings act.

>>15218437
They had a lot of changes for characters to put this asshole in his place, namely Wufei, Heero, and Relena but the show never gave that to us.

>>15226610
>changes
*chances. Fucking phone auto correct

Traize never believed in true Peace like Relena but he believed in both sides having a fair duel. He didn't like the fact that the Earth went around bulling the colonies and he loathed genocidal assholes who ruled by fear.

Traiz wanted to get rid of all the oldfaggots because their outdated and totalitarian way of thinking got none of them anywhere and Noventa's little party of Alliance Pacifists were actually starting to make small headway.

The Gundams were merely a convenient way for him to make his move. He saw a perfect opportunity to make his coupe and blame the Gundams for it so he went for it. Not to mention that he hated Novena and the Alliance Pacifists because he saw them as hypocrites with blood on their hands.

Traiz also values people fighting tooth and nail for what they believe in; this is why, while he doesn't agree with Relena Peacecraft and her views, he admires her for standing her ground, even to the bitter end of her country going down in flame again.

That being said, I personal don't think Traiz really believed in people or their ability to let bygones be bygones. I think he believed that Earth and Space should be ruled by an Iron but benevolent fist because people are inherently stupid and will always find a reason to fight eachother. Relena, on the other hand, believed in the humanity's ability for forgiveness and felt that we could evolve beyond out stupid desires to kill eachother for stupid shit like power or wealth (Maybe - in VERY small part - like the Star Trek universe where humans are more appted to use logic and communication for their disagreements instead of trying to beat the other into submission) She truly believed that the pen could be mightier than the sward.

>>15226687
>The Gundams were merely a convenient way for him to make his move. He saw a perfect opportunity to make his coupe and blame the Gundams for it so he went for it. Not to mention that he hated Novena and the Alliance Pacifists because he saw them as hypocrites with blood on their hands.

And Treize didn't have blood on his hands....

>>15231510
>And Treize didn't have blood on his hands....
He knew he did, and memorized the names of every soldier who died under his command. 99,822 at the time it was mentioned, before asking Une to send him a list of everyone who died in the current battle. He made sure to appreciate the lives given for his goals.

>>15226687
>Maybe - in VERY small part - like the Star Trek universe where humans are more appted to use logic and communication for their disagreements instead of trying to beat the other into submission

Yeah but peace in ST came after WW3 devastated humanity

>>15231589
Which considering it's a world war that's spread throughout space and earth and destroyed multiple nations/governments is pretty damn tiny.

>>15218437
He believes humans should carry their own crosses.

>>15231713
And that is because the latter half of it is mostly slicing through mobile dolls which means much less human deaths

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>>15218437
Do you think this guy could beat Treize?

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>>15218437

His financial backers wanted to make his commitment a joke essentially. He wished to guide mankind properly using his organisation as modern examples for armies everywhere on Earth only for his benefactors who conspired with him to turn favour for their own wallets and choose to dehumanise the nature of warfare now they were unofficially in control with Treize in power.

Treize relented, challenging their greedy immoral agenda with basic parlour tricks such as the loyalty and initiative of the soldier at first only for them to place him under house arrest until they could figure out what to do with him. (he entrusts what is considered his dream to Heero, who embodies the nature of the soldier he considers to be ideal through Epyon)

With Duke Dermail dead near the end of the series and Romefeller in financial straights, Treize comes out of hiding now a changed individual, not aspiring to change the world in his own image, but simply content to do his part to close the farce of his own involvement and machinations with Romefeller so that mankind may move on without the threat of warfare or machines without pilots unwillingly brought forward into creation by his ascension to power.

So yeah, it is absolutely about responsibility in the end. He felt like he ruined everything with his involvement and nothing turned out the way he wanted so he manned the fuck up to end things.

>>15218437
Like the rest of Wing, he literally made no sense.

I like how there are two main schools of thought here. One is Trieze and the rest of the Wing cat's characterization does make sense. it's just really subtle and you need to pay attention and the other is people who have no good will towards the series, just going "It's stupid and that's it."

>>15231810
I see it as a middle ground; they tried something and it didn't really worked but you can see what they were trying to do.

>>15231931

This. You could tell it just needed a better writer, but what it was trying to say was solid.

>>15231931
Well it certainly doesn't help that there was a director change in the middle, and the pilots backstories got scrapped and put into the episode zero manga.

>>15232014
What was with 90s productions and getting directors changed all over the place? Sometimes it was unavoidable due to death, but it seemed to happen a lot then.

>>15232001
>it just needed a better writer
So does nearly every other Gundam series

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>>15232017
Series were longer. How many series do you see now days that get 50 eps. Back then 26 was almost standard, which is now rare compared to 12. When a show exists in multiple fiscal quarters it's a lot easier for higher ups to justify relieving a director of their duties if the show is a struggling. Wing since this is a wing thread had horrible scheduling issues. The director change was probably someone higher up at sunrise trying to fix the problem. now days the single "cour" show magically exists in perfect alignment with fiscal quarters for companies. Since they don't cross quarters you don't see executives being able to justify such meddling in the same way.

>>15232041
But back in the 80s you had longer series which were more common than in the 90s without directors shifting, unless it was something like a manga tie in.

>>15232060
And it happens with series that aren't long; Getter Robo Armageddon for instance.

>>15232064
That is because if you leave Imagawa in change of things they'll never be finished.

>>15232060
Even then you had directors in for the long haul, like Toyoo Ashida who did all of FOTNS, something like 150 EPISODES.

>>15232074
Why was episodes in all caps there? This keyboard is dying.

>>15232064
OVA's may not be long but they take long periods of time. Getter Robo Armageddon is a great example of a director being a shit, and getting fired.

>>15232060
before the Japanese market crash.

>>15218437
>The Mobile Doll Program will continue to grow more advanced until eventually they become complex enough to question why they are taking orders from these pink ants.

Trieze was right.

>>15218458
Trieze's are completely practical as far as both his motivations and personality goes.

>>15232060

The 80s also had so much money flowing into Japan that you could use it to light your cigarettes, it didn't matter.

>>15219024
finally a nigga who recognizes that gundam wing fucking owns

>>15231589
I suspect that there a lot of civilian deaths

>>15218450
You're an idiot. Wing actually starts off bad and nonsensical and gets progressively better once it hits its strut. And "things not making sense" can be lobbied as a con against like 99% of the Gundam meta-series entries so what the hell is the point of this comment of yours?

>>15235766
And they went to shit again when great value Char decided to be a massive faggot and nuke the earth.

>>15236317
Zech's arc of being a full trilogy of Chardom is better then Char's own, stay salty faggola.

>>15236833
Just because is better(is not) doesn't make it less bad, toonami baby.

>>15238097
You are wrong though, both objectively and subjectively.

>toonami baby
Try harder faggot.

>>15218437
He's the prototype of Trump.

>>15219024
>should have been in FC
Treize as a Gundam Fighter is an amusing mental image, but which colony would he represent?

>>15232060

Remember that Gundam wing became better AFTER Bandai FIRED Sumizawa, and the other writer took his place, and it was mainly after the infamous and autistic "Relena: HEERO, IM HERE KILL ME!" after the 1st 6 episodes.

if this didn't happened the other director and bandai wouldn't haven't stepped forth to fix the bullcrap that sumizawa did

There's a reason of why Frozen Teardrop and EW exists, and is to show how fucking bad Sumizawa's writing is, through the fighting scenes, animation and Duo/Deathscythe being BOSS saved that

>>15238317

England because hes already a Davion made fighter

>>15238286
>comparing vulgar asshole to Trieze
No.

>>15238286
>>>/pol/

>>15236317
>>15236833
>>15238097
>>15238187
Honestly I have to agree that Zech's whole "Im a White Fang leader now. Lets fuck up the earth" was confusing as hell and made no sense to me. Where did all this ridicules animosity for his former best friend and the Earth it's self come from? Even Glory of the Losers Manga tried to dive into his reasoning a little more and It sill doesn't make sense.

Did the Kans just make him drink the White Fang coolaid or something?

>>15238460
>Comparing high-energy and motivated leader to Trieze

Yes you fucking CTR shill

>>15238611
It's a gundam show. Someone's gotta try and drop SOMETHING on Earth.

>>15238635
Are you legitimately mentally retarded?

>>15218555
Treize essentially has a God complex.

And like "God," Treize wants people to follow and fight according to their beliefs, not simply because they are told to.

Indeed, he sympathizes with Wufei, his enemy, because he knows Wufei is fighting for what he believes in and is not some mindless drone.

Treize desired for humanity to stand and fight on its own accord; out of the faith in what they believed in, no matter what side they were fighting for.

Mindless war drones/machines with no free will is something he was adamantly against.

>>15238187

Sometimes I wonder whether people don't know the difference between objective and subjective or if they just don't care. Either way, objective will probably have it's definition edited by dictionaries like the Oxford soon to include meaning subjective through exaggeration or emphasis, just like literally now means figurative due to those.

That said, a storyline or arc cannot be objectively better.

>>15238635

Since when is Trump high energy? He's not a sloth, but he's not bounding around the place either. Which isn't exactly surprising given his age mind, but is still true regardless. Treize isn't exactly lacking in motivation for that matter.

>>15238827
>And like "God," Treize wants people to follow and fight according to their beliefs, not simply because they are told to.
Most Gods seem perfectly happy to tell people what to do and not think about it, judging from their scriptures.

>>15238976
Hello autism.

>>15238363
>Epyon replacing Johnbull
It could work.

>>15238976
idk, he seems pretty high energy to me. Reagan did too and he was a similar age.

Applying Occam's Razor and Treize's motivation is clear: he wants power for its own sake and his justifications are a smoke-screen to ease his own conscience and give his followers a higher ideal to rally behind than gibsmedat

>>15239681

That explanation fails to explain why he commit suicide by Gundam during a battle it's pretty clear he could have won.

>>15239681
>not even knowing what Occham's Razor is

I think the really amazing thing about Gundam Wing is its philosophical overtones. I've talked for hours with my friends about what Heero and Treize's conversation on the meaning of war (episodes 36-38) really MEANS about WAR, and we've gotten to thinking that maybe, just maybe, it's not about war at all.

Gundam Wing makes us think on such high levels that sometimes I orgasm spontaneously when discussing it. It's miles from that ridiculous Tomino super robot trash, it makes Ideon look like a goddamned Playmobil fire engine. Fucking Ide Gauge. The Zero System is about life, man. That's as real as it gets. It's about your MIND and your SOUL.

I wish I had pretty, long hair like Zechs-chan. That Charles is such a pale imitation.

>>15218451
>>15218481
>>15219024
>>15220093
>>15220101
This is why drone warfare is cheap, pathetic, and utter bullshit, its sad that todays armys around the globe is headed in this direction and every soldier will soon be irrelevant in th future

>>15218437
He had a hard life

>>15239704
Because the magical computer called the Zero System told him to.

That's literally his entire motivation for suicide. The magic computer said so.

>>15246656

If he just wanted power he wouldn't commit suicide because a computer told him to though. He'd only do so if he thought his ideals would survive his death and/or that his death would guarantee them. And that can't happen if his only ideal is "gimme".

>>15246706
He just wanted the last big battle. He does not care about not seeing it through because he knows there's Relena that will guide the people at the end.

Zero System only shows the outcome of the pilot's desires. It's up to the pilot to interpret that.

Big mistake is that Treize chose Wufei to kill him. When Treize just randomly decided to die, Wufei is mentally weak to have that burden.

>>15235766
t. Toonami "Wing was my first Gundumb and it dindu nuffin wrong " millennial

>>15248995
zetafags being desperate to shitpost about every series that isn't zeta..

>>15248857

> He only cares about power
> He doesn't care if he dies because he knows Relena will be there to guide people after he dies

I'm sure you think these two statements are perfectly compatible, but I honestly have no idea how.

>>15249430
No, because I am not the same guy.

Just looking at how it went, Treize did it not for power, but for a grand idea. He rooted out the major powers in Wing and made them fight each other in the end. I don't remember it correctly, but he was an admirer of pacifism but very skeptic of it at the same time. He would not settle for anything until every single person in the world is conscious of the consequence of war and embraced pacifism (unless I got it wrong).

I think he was a hyper-rationalist. Imo, that's why the future Zero System showed him was null. He admired the pilots who are shaped by battle, who find meaning in their struggle, but he cannot find intrinsic meaning in it for himself. He was more into the idea because it's beautiful, not because it's personal. I think when he killed himself in the last episodes, that's the climax of the narrative for him. To fight in the grandest battle (and his mind the last) in history, and to fight against someone who really wants to fight him and who he also admire at the same time. I don't think he's a thrill junkie perse, he just feels it's meant to be like a script in a play. He has inhuman detachment but still calculated. Partly why Lady Une got split personality because he's half crazy.

>>15249611
>He admired the pilots who are shaped by battle, who find meaning in their struggle, but he cannot find intrinsic meaning in it for himself.
Then why did he kill Relena's father? Wasn't he fighting for something he believed in the same way as the Gundam pilots and Relena later on? How can he admire Relena's struggle for peace but kill Minister Darlian like he was an afterthought? Also, he didn't have blood on his hands like the Alliance Pacifists, so that rules out hypocrisy.

>>15218437
AC is the only universe were humanoid MS make sense.

Its a world where the aristocracy and nobility never died out. In that world knights still exist and therefore combat still has honor and the weapons of war are basically giant suits of armor.

Mobile Dolls does away with that. And make the soldier obsolete.

Also Trieze didn't do it solely for muh honor. His main reason, according to himself, is that the dolls war becomes a game, and the victories or losses aren't really felt by the people because no one is dying or sacrificing anything. It would just come to whoever had the most money to buy these drones. If a country attacked another country (even though basically the world and the colonies are one government) the dolls would fight each other and then one side would say OK lol we won, and annex. I guess it doesn't account for guerilla tactics after the occupation. But with human combat there are actual stakes, and someone people's will can make up for a lack of numbers.

It's just a cartoon, but it's not that weird.

>>15250401
tldr

treize hated the dolls because the wars wold become more like a game out of The Running Man and other dystrophic futures, rather than something that would make mankind think twice about spilling blood against each other

Romefeller was already a mix of the worst that aristocracy had over the years

>>15220101
i like you

>>15250189
If I remember correctly, he mentioned Relena's father during the last battle (along with people that died in his name), so it was not completely an afterthought - but a necessary step for Treize. I don't want to justify Treize (I said he was crazy/hyper-rational), but you can only see what the consequence of that deed led to, and that helped in the culmination that triggered the eve wars.

>>15251985

he adverted AC repeating the same circle as UC with the bartons going full ZEON with X1998 Colony drop during the entire series

heck, even wing has 1 or things about Gundams and MS being "rediscovered" after all these years

AC195 may be 145.M6/Year 6195

>>15251985
>but a necessary step for Treize.
I guess I just don't understand why killing Mr. Darlian was necessary since no one seemed to take him or his position seriously.

>>15252574
Except the colonies.

>>15252622
The colonies meant nothing to the Earth and Treiz knew it.

>>15252298
Then why does Sydney still exist?

>>15250401
>AC is the only universe were humanoid MS make sense.
>Its a world where the aristocracy and nobility never died out.

If an aristocracy is all that mattered for humanoid MS, then almost all the other continuities qualify.

>>15260697
But in the AC the aristocracy still rule the world. It's basically like the 18th century never ended.

Zeon has a monarchy I guess, but that was after being a republic, and then just a colony, and before that basically the UC is like our world. They aren't justifying their existence by presenting continuity.
Its not that aristocracy don't exist in other universes, but in the AC the whole world still revolves around them.

>>15261056
That always made me wonder if GW Earth China still acted like it had Densities and Japan still had modern ronin walking around.

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>>15250401
>Death, destruction, disease, horror. That's what war is all about. That's what makes it a thing to be avoided. You've made it neat and painless. So neat and painless, you've had no reason to stop it.

>>15249611

If you're not the same guy then it would probably help to state that in your reply, since you seem to hold Treize's actions to come from a different place than >>15239681 does.

>>15262755
Holy fuck! Are you me?

This had to be one of the greatest episodes in TOS of all time and I think about it every time I think of Wing or even the shit going on irl.

>>15261182


If we go by Wu-fei's colony and the china arc, is pretty much like this, With Sally Po being English-Chinese Descendant.

>which explains why she looks like cammy merged with helga from atlantis

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>>15250401
>>15262755
>>15263858

holy shit! /m/ never ceases to surprise me on Wing's defense!

>>15263916
The fuck are you talking about? /m/ is usually spearheading the wing hatred campaign. It's only recently that /m/ decided to take a better look at this show instead of blindly hating every single thing about it.

>>15262755

What episode is that out of interest? I've only watched a few episodes from the first season and might just watch that one out of curiosity, since I like the theme that quote probably represents.

>>15266910
Season 1, Episode 23: A Taste of Armageddon

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>>15266962
>>15266910
https://mega.nz/#F!pwZBESBa!E1hJrYkTZsdWcwoavKg0Og
if you want to hear it in the original Japanese

>>15266962

Thank you kindly anon.

>>15266970
Thank you, chair.

You wouldn't happen to have the Japanese dub of the A-Team squirreled away somewhere too, would you?

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>>15264036
to be fair Treize has been getting love on /m/ for years.

>>15266970
Has anyone ever taken the time to dub it in Klingon

>>15221450
>writers have no idea how human beings act
This is probably the worst argument you could ever make when criticizing one's work. Everyone is different and some people do crazier, senseless things in real life than in anime. Also, how the fuck can a human being not know how human beings behave? Even the most disassociated autists still have some barebone understanding of social interaction.

tl;dr you're dumb

>>15238611
He was the Char of the show, therefore his soul was compelled to dunk something on the Earth

>>15267499

and he did it better than the ours only

mainly on the Quattro and CCA phase of it

>>15267499
>>15267524
i wonder if the zero system did anything to influence his decisions.

>>15238611
Char was a little all over the place himself, adapting and condensing that into one show makes it look especially crazy.

>>15221450
>t. aspie social pariah

>>15266970
>>15267016
i watched the japanese dub of ds9 and was EXTREMELY UPSET at the translation inaccuracies

>>15267016
I don't, but you might try nico. They're where I get my moontrek from.
Looks like 特攻野郎Aチーム is the moonrunes according to wiki.

>>15254160
That's exactly why the colonies are important to Treize's plan. They have been oppressed, so they have ample amount of resentment. They are so weak/fragmented and unexperienced in battle, they are the ones more likely to embrace warfare using mobile dolls. They also have resources lying around for that. The thought of that happening ala Operation Meteor; it can happen. The weak and resentful do not care for honor and such as long they can vent their hatred. Treize just pushed that (along with the killings of Darlian and Noventa), then comes along White Fang and the Eve War.

>>15264036
/m/ isn't able to grasp concepts unless they're shouted 20 times in five minutes

>>15267183

I feel like Kirk would object to that.

I thought Trieze was for Mobile Dolls?

So the ruling elite could fight their wars with out soldiers dying.

Or was that Not Char?

>>15271249

It was neither. Treize objected from the start and honestly Milliardo just wanted to find his purpose.

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>>15245729
Tfw Strangereal is headed in this direction

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>>15238611
Zechs joining White Fang was brought on by the fact that everything he did before then amounted to nothing. He helped Treize with his coupe to weed out the corruption in the alliance military only for Romefellar to slowly take their place. He broke away from OZ and later tried to wage a two-man resistance against them with Howard, which proved meaningless since they just shit out more mobile dolls. Lastly he failed to save the Sanc Kingdom and Relena from having to surrender to the foundation. While losing his home and his sister didn't unhinge him the same way with Quattre being betrayed by his home colony and watching his dad die, it's safe to assume that that last part still wound up breaking Zechs in the end. It's really no wonder Kans finds him drowning his sorrows somewhere in Canada after going through all that.

>>15238358
but frozen teardrop is terrible and EW is just okay

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>>15218437
I liked the part where he disappeared from the plot for 30 episodes to build a Gundam in his basement then he killed himself
what a guy

So Wing is actually MGS anime?
That's why nothing makes sense...
Fine by me.

>>15262755

Jesus fucking christ, now i have a reason to re-watch wing


Star Trek has to be one of the biggest series of all time


>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKmUd0zHW4w

>>15273380
>dub Septum will never voice all of Metal Gear Solid
;_;

i've always knew that Wing's plot reminded me of something else from my childhood, but i never thought that /m/ would point it out that is one of the best Episodes ever made for a TV series, which is Star Trek OG Series


kudos for the anon who pointed that.

>>15272378
>Lastly he failed to save the Sanc Kingdom and Relena from having to surrender to the foundation. While losing his home and his sister didn't unhinge him the same way with Quattre being betrayed by his home colony and watching his dad die, it's safe to assume that that last part still wound up breaking Zechs in the end. It's really no wonder Kans finds him drowning his sorrows somewhere in Canada after going through all that.

Zechs never once mentions any of that shit though. He never talks about his fallen country or his sister being basically held captive as a political puppet. Nothing but "Blah blah colony oppression for too long blah." And when he sees Relena again he just like "You're safe, that's nice". Also, according to GotL Manga, Zechs started being recruited into White Fang way before any of that shit even happened.

It looked like they were either changing his ideals to suit the plot or trying too hard to make him a Char clone where one wasn't necessary.

>>15275184
I've always maintained that Zechs was one of the best characters in that show, and Milliardo was one of the worst.

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>>15275184
>according to GotL Manga, Zechs started being recruited into White Fang way before any of that shit even happened.

I just read that volume again, he joined a while afterwards. Instead of drinking in a bar he's in combat wondering what to do when Quinze contacts him.

I always thought Zechs had already caught on to Trieze's plan to make a horrible war by then and willingly took leadership of the White Fang in order to be his opposing faction for that.

>>15275442
Maybe that's what the Zero System showed him: "For Treize to be the hero, you need to play the villain".

>>15275435
I said he "Started to be recruited," meaning they already approached him a while back and planted the seed in his head to have him join later.

>>15275442
>>15275454
If that were the case, Zechs would have showed some respect toward Trieze, even if it was only to himself. But he practically detested him when he's leading the WF. Zechs completely drank the White Fang koolaid and never came back.

His anger toward Treize could have made 'some' sense if he was pissed that his coupe failed and that his last living relative was part of the fallout. But again, nothing is mentioned of this. He just hates Trieze now because he's the WF leader.

>>15275754
>He just hates Trieze now because he's the WF leader.
Isn't that just the role he has to play outwardly? As a leader of a bunch of radical terrorists, even if he is using his Peacecraft name, that would be part of his obligation of playing the villain. It would also be why he shouldn't and didn't accept Treize's offer of a duel to decide the war.

>>15275435
GotL is all over the place. On one hand, I commend this manga for trying to explain and close the gap between cretin scenes and character motivations from the show. On the other hand though, the story is rushed as fuck, it uses FT as it's backstory, and it changes major plot points for completely no reason at all.

Also, the Zero system being able to see months into the future is just retarded. It's not a fucking crystal ball. Seeing an extremely likely result based on given battle data - sure but Zechs literally saw almost everything up to the very end of Wing, which never fucking happened in the show.

As for Zechs's part; as seen in anons pic, the manga tries it's best to explain his bipolar motivations from the show but it still come across as extremely thin reasoning. Maybe it's the pacing again or the way they chose to execute it. And, by this point in the story (both manga and anime) Zechs hadn't really been important to the overall plot and only shows up to be a bitter faggot toward Treize and fight the guy who likes his sister.

>>15275770
>As a leader of a bunch of radical terrorists, even if he is using his Peacecraft name, that would be part of his obligation of playing the villain. It would also be why he shouldn't and didn't accept Treize's offer of a duel to decide the war.

Just because he was playing the opposing villain to Treize doesn't mean that he still respected the guy as a friend.

Nether the anime or the manga show that Zechs, still respected Treize in any capacity. Not even in their privet talks to eachother or in his own internal thoughts. In the show, he outright tries to kill him with their death beam and he doesn't have a single thought or reaction when he hears that Treize has died.

He also tried to kill Noin and tried to wave off his own sister like she was sort of bothering him. Nether of which had anything to do with playing the part of WF leader. He was literally just trying to be an 'actual' edgelord and get rid of all the people he cares about to make his job easier.

>>15267838
>The weak and resentful do not care for honor
Obviously the powerful and content don't give a shit for it either, since Romefeller is the one who develops and pushes the Mobile Dolls to begin with.

>>15275955
>>15275977


zechs tried to pull out a vader in this case

While traize was playing the Star trek Taste of Armageddon over the entire series

Zechs played the Anakin/Vader