The centrist liberal politics of Gundam always got under my skin.

Wew lad, you need to dial that bait down a bit if you want this (You).

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This thread is Balls
post balls

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>>15196553
It's not bait you tater tot.

>>15196527
Unicorn's writer -is- a right wing nut. He held himself back and condemned Zeon because they're just not salvageable in that setting to anyone with any sense, but he still made up a bullshit conspiracy with the original constitution of the Federation to justify Zeon's basic motives, only condemning their actions.

>>15196527
>expecting well written politics from a toy commercial

>>15196583
Literally this. What do you think you're watching OP?

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>>15196583
0079 had pretty neat politics despite being a toy commercial. Especially the way they portrayed the villains as being villainous for blindly following an awful status quo, as opposed to twirling their mustaches and and laughing maniacally.

When you compare their villains to Zeta/ZZ's, you can see that Tomino dropped that angle for something simpler.

>>15196597
Well the thing about 0079 was that it actually -wasn't- a toy commercial initially

>>15196597
to be fair the Kycilia and Ghiren and a lesser extent Maquve were mustache twirlers

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>>15196631
But how do you twirl your mustache when it's one of these?

Muh independance space nazis vs space America is boring and dumb.

SEED should have had a much more politically interesting conflict before it made Lacus God and Kira Jesus.

>>15196580
Except the part where the motives were said to be unjustifiable even with the charter because it all hinged on what definition of "newtype" would be most convenient to them, none of which existed at the time of the Charter's conception.

In fact, Unicorn's entire thesis amounts to declaring Zeon in all its forms as the biggest problem of the Universal Century, having stolen the setting's infinite possibility by forcing it to be nothing more than an endless cycle of Earthnoid-Spacenoid violence. It's not the Spacenoid independence that's problematic, it's the meme of Zeon and all the bad blood that it brings. Once you drop a colony, you lose the moral high ground.

>>15196527
Yeah Full Frontal still strikes me as the most insanely reasonable villain in gundam, like no genocide, no huge colony drop war, no newtype holocaust/oldtype holocaust. His plan is just so fucking simple and sensible:

The EF relies on space exports because i the Earth was dying and doing things the old fashioned way was inevitably making it inhospitable. They moved our asses to space to lessen the burden but inadvertently because we needed to be self sufficient to survive we ended up in a far more efficient society that had access to all the resources. While meanwhile they still lived over consuming needy lives.

They still own all the colonies, but we do all the labour, resource extraction, Helium 3 refining and mining etc.

To show them who is boss we simply cut them off from their colony suppliers until the recognise us as the true owners and controllers of the supply chain and stop ruling over us with a broken bureaucratic system. If they want their stuff they will have to do it on equal terms.

Like how is this worse than Char in any fucking way? I guess being a blonde brat with a revenge fetish was far more humane. Also i would blame American intervention and reconstruction of Japan for the status quo argument towards liberalism, any of the actual far left/marxist groups wanted out right rebellion against the capitalist puppet masters of the US. The Liberal/centrist American backed nips were the ones who always prattled on about playing nice with the big bosses overseas beause it supposedly meant prosperity for the masses and pea$e for the higher ups.

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J̶a̶p̶a̶n̶ Zeon did nothing wrong in W̶W̶2̶ One Year War, A̶m̶e̶r̶i̶c̶a̶ Earth Federation was the aggressor.

>>15196631
Maquve wasn't a mustache twirler, he was a vase-dinger.

>>15196704
He was a petty opportunist in 0079 and an elitist with a heart of gold in The Origin.

I actually really liked him in The Origin, the scene with the art dealer that didn't know anything about history was a good thesis statement on his character.

>>15196678

Nah, SEED's political conflict is just identity politics taken up to 11. Instead of gender or religion, people are identified by their genetic origins. Both sides end up irrationally hating each other simply because of that identity. It's like watching SJWs argue.

Carl the Cuck: You're a white male!
Carl the Coordinator: You're a natural!

>>15197018
Except naturals are innately inferior in almost all aspects of life.

It's an issue that can't just conveniently go away like "oh well i guess fascism was a mistake what were we thinking gief reconstruction monies plz"

>>15197069
There's the ethical snafu surrounding designer babies as well as the debate of innate talent vs developed skill.

Mostly though all it had to do was be Gattaca Gundam.

>>15196527
This is why G-shows that dispense with direct political allegory in favor of more philosophical dilemmas are always held in higher regard.

Except ZZ, fuck that redheaded crackbaby.

>>15196527
>(as oppose to the status quo where the minority oppresses the majority and the majority decimates the minority once every 5 years)

That's not true tough. Most people's lives may not be great under the EF, but they aren't oppressed. Most of the colonies were fine with the EF. It was only the remnants of remnants of remnants of Zeon who insist that they - and by extension all spacenoids - are oppressed.

The uprisings after OYW were more localized and relatively small, not to the level that it "decimates" the majority. This is why every time there's an uprising, there's almost always a bunch of kids who has been living in relative PEACE to jump into the cockpit.

Yeah, some cities/colonies do get destroyed in the course of the uprisings, but you know...that happens IRL too, in the Middle East. Is our Western world and its governments perfect and free of corruption? Hell no, but people for the most part still accept the system and would rather work within it to fix things than demand it all be torn down.

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>>15196527
>Try to build a utopia
>You end up creating a military fascist state focused on the perfect ideal person no one can ever be

Utopias are a good idea bro. Best fucking idea ever. Ask the Taiwanese and the Russians.

>>15197069
>Except naturals are innately inferior in almost all aspects of life.

My point exactly. In the real world, SJWs argue over whether people are better/worse because of their identity (e.g whether kids raised under gay parents are better or worse off, whether kids raised atheist were better or not)

SEED world just takes it up to 11 where it turns out one way is better at most aspects of life. But I guess one thing coordinators aren't better at is learning tolerance and being above identity politics. But nope, just like Internet flame wars between SJWs, the side that is supposedly more enlightened dropped down to the level of the trolls and flamers.

>>15196684
And now you understand the tragedy and asshurt that is char, the zeon of deikun and a newtype, he ends up a salty broken mess and ends up falling short of his own ideals

UC gundam is depressing as fuck if you consider that the dark age endlessly spirals forever

>>15197086
and coordinators breeding with themselves go sterile, because they were never meant to be a single race but improve the over all gene pool and breed with normal people

and mars blue cosmos new this, tried to get both groups to breed into one, but the junk guild had to be all
>you're blue cosmos and evil and also you didn't tell people the truth even though if you did the apocalypse racewar currently genocide all life in the earth sphere would spread to mars
>anyway I'm going to reveal everything and act like I did a good thing while mars spirals into genocide and anarchy hahaha

>>15197141
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here.

>>15197141
>Taiwan

nigger Taiwan is a paradise compared to the shit around it

>>15196698
>that pic

I mean I knew of the Nanking denials and the stuff about comfort women not existing but shit man that's some concentrated denial there

>>15197205
Junk guild is full of retards and tits.

>>15197163
That's not even remotely close to to issues in CE. You could curb systematic racism which is what the biggest issue is.
You can't really do much about the fact that people can make it that their babies are quite literally better than yours could ever be without having to try as hard.

But of course, anyone who brings up identity politics usually goes on to talk about how the SJWs are marching on Capitol Hill to snatch up the rights of white men who dared exist as normal people.

>>15196597
>Titans
>wrong

This meme needs to stop.

The Titans were absolutely right to curb the spacenoids, just look at what happened as soon as they went under. In fact, Scirocco himself was a dirty spacenoid. Jamitov was a fool for trusting a spaceman.

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>>15197267
The best part was the titans goal was to curb the spacenoid rebellions, and then purge all the federal bureaucracy and force people into space

also
>yfw the titans were the only group to take jaburo

truly the best zeon movement

>>15196527
>Full Frontal is the only Zeon leader with a competent plan to take on Earth hegemony that isn't genocide,

Fucking this. Once his plan was spelled out, I was speechless. Audrey literally had no grounds to object whatsoever. FF's plan was good politics and foreign policy in the best sense.

>>15197267
The problem is they were curbing the wrong spacenoids. Every time a spacenoid insurrection occurs, it's ended by another spacenoid piloting a Gundam.

And the one time the Gundam pilot wasn't a spacenoid the war was lost.

>>15197267
The Titans conceptually were a good idea, and a necessary one to deal with the Zeonic remnants still lurking around after the One Year War and Operation Stardust.The main issue was with the direct leadership of the Titans.

Jamitov: In the TV version, he is a shallow sociopath willing to snuff out the Federation and spacenoids just to maintain power. In the New Translation Films, he is a bit more idealistic about trying to reform mankind by force, but still comes across as a gullible bureaucrat as Scirroco plays him like a piano. He also had a hand in destroying not only Jaburo base, but the Kilimonjoro fortress that could have been used later to fight the radicalized African Zeon movements in ZZ.
Bask: Psychopath with no real motive other than spreading misery and chaos for shits and giggles.
Scirroco: A Jovian. Not much more needs to be said what kind of issues that carries with it.

Despite this though, the Titans could have prevented the horrifying loss of well over two billion people during the events of ZZ [I.E: African Zeon forces pushing into Eurasia and the Middle East, killing every single infidel and non-followe in sight, the Dublin Colony drop debacle, ect]

Had A.E.U.G been a bit more patient, it might have been able to take Axis and the Titans by surpise, allowing for a smoother victory instead of them becoming pawns to Axis, then a vessel for Anaheim to flex its muscles.

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>>15197317
>titans
>federal

good job dropping a colony on a corn field instead of jaburo

>Keep hearing about the Earthnoids who are the elite of the Earthsphere
>Spacenoids are just oppressed free thinkers who are suffering
>Every animated UC material has spacenoids living peaceful, productive lives where the only conflict comes from another group of spacenoids
>Earthnoids range from upper class socialites to struggling masses who are just trying to survive
I don't understand.

>>15197281
Amuro was an earthnoid. He was just at the colony at the time due to his dad's work.

>>15197384
he was a canadian half spic whos mother was the village bike in some shithole in new foundland or whatever, and his "dad" was some carl cuck japanese guy

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>>15197267
I disagree. I think the "Titans dindu nuffin" meme needs to stop.

>>15197270
They didn't -take- it, it was theirs from the start you idiot! They abandoned it for the sake of blowing up the AEUG with nukes because Kilimanjaro was enough I guess.

>>15197291
>the Titans could have prevented the horrifying loss of well over two billion people during the events of ZZ

They could have, but they probably wouldn't because then they could use the colony drop to justify lasering all the other colonies to death because why do your job when you can just escalate things further by letting the other assholes do what they want?

>>15197335
The whole "Earth VS Space" thing is bullshit cooked up by /pol/ insurgents posing as Titans and Zeon fanboys to stir the pot.

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>>15197543
>people enjoying titans shitposting is a /pol/ conspiracy

>>15197543
I'll be honest, I'm all for the titans just because of the cool uniforms. I also can't defend anything they did other than they were created for a valid reason.

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>>15197557
Londo bell ended up doing what they were meant to do, without being retards anyway

Jammy jams was working with a den of snakes anyway, with baque and jerrid running around and then fucking scirocco

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>>15197543
>aeug
>the organization that was about to let char be leader and then became a cum rag for Anaheim

>>15197218
To be fair, nanking was justified. Post 1800s Chinks are fucking subhumans

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>>15197546
Considering that it's a frequent thing with no wink that it's just shitposting, and the fact that titansfags tend to use a lot of /pol/ lingo shitting on liberals, kinda failing to see how it isn't at this point.

There's also the fact that some of them imply they would gladly defect to Neo Zeon after the gryps war just to sate their edgelord murderboners. But that's neither here nor there.

>>15197543
Wouldnt AEUG be Classic Liberal/Centrist?

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>>15197580
>taking /pol/ seriously

Quit being a spoil sport and take your bogpill

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>>15197571
Better the son of the guy who proposed spacenoid independence as opposed to the daughter of warmongers who just used his philosophies as a means of getting people on their side.

Sorry Haman, but even Mineva knows the Zabis were wrong. :^)

>>15197586
They would and Titansfags would still call them "cucks" because everyone is "cuck" in their minds.

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>>15197580
shut up you humorless cunt.

>>15197575
I was told it was the commie revolution that made them into subhumans

>>15197618
no, the communist revolution only made peasant memes a fetish for the government.

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best gundam politics are in g gundam

-don't destroy the environment
-don't trample over the poor and disenfranchised just because you can get away with it
-don't give power to the power hungry crazy people

-If all else fails, destroy all humans

>>15197557
>cool uniforms
Just edgy recolor of fedie one, with blatant zeek influence here and there.

you're actually missing a pretty huge part of FF's plan that was in coded language, you're just trading earth based oppression and violence towards the colonies for zeon based oppression and violence

they called it the co-prosperity sphere for a reason, you're supposed to draw the parallel between his plan and prewar japan's fake anti-imperialism propaganda, which is made clear when he says that of course, zeon will have to be in charge of it

his plan is no different from what the zabis wanted and his new world order would have been enforced the same way as the zabis, the same way japan helped out the newly 'free' asian states with massacres and active colonization

>>15197625
Domon came up with the best fucking response to that and one I'm aghast as to why it isn't more common:

You get rid of all humans and you get rid of a part of nature ya git.

>>15197740

Why? Nature gets rid of parts of itself all the time. 99% plus of nature has been destroyed by nature before humans even existed. Including the planet resurfacing itself a couple of times most likely.

>>15196597
How were the villains of Zeta or ZZ mustache twirlers.

>>15198898
The Titans don't really have a deep explanation for why they are what they are, unless you believe some headcannon "Jamitov is a Deikunist" shit

>>15198926
Trying to enforce order through a military regime is not that out there and you don't need to be a Deikunist to understand where the problems of UC are coming from.

>>15198926

Zeon and the Zabis didn't have an especially deep explanation in 0079 itself either. There has been explanation added using manga, games, novels etc. over the years, but in 0079 itself Zeon and the Zabis have a lot less depth and are pretty equal to the Titans in those terms.

>>15198954
The Zabis got very little screentime, though, and Gihren was the only one who gooned out on the same level as Bask/Jamaican/Jerid/Yazan/etc. Most Zeons were a grounded kind of evil.

>>15198926
>unless you believe some headcannon "Jamitov is a Deikunist" shit

But that's actually true. I can't remember which episode it's from, but Scirocco explains his motives as basically trying to bankrupt the earth government with war as a means to drive them out to a more economically stable colony city.

>>15198926
>Jamitov wants to heal the earth
>he's a deikunist

Good meme retard

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>>15198898
>Zeta
The Titans do all sorts of shit to make their balls feel big. It's to the point that people like Emma defect, and Scirocco so disgusted he plots a coupe. Char even states during his Dakar speech that the titans are actually WORSE than the zabis. While Zeon's actions in the OYW were still horrid, they didn't really have any truly despicable cunts beneath the Zabis save for M'Quve.


>ZZ
Practically every villain of the week after Mashymre and Chara was either a smug shitlord looking to boost their rank, or in Rakan's case: A clone of Yazan spliced with Batista. All taking orders from Glemy- who cloned and commanded child soldiers, and Haman- who was Muh Ideals before Gato, and even she knew it was horseshit, but didn't care.

>>15198945
/m/ doesn't care about explanations or character motivations. They only care about who has a high kill count and who can give the biggest murder boner shit eating grin while adding to it.

>>15198926

http://www9.atpages.jp/~gihren/pukiwiki/index.php?%E3%82%B8%E3%83%A3%E3%83%9F%E3%83%88%E3%83%95%E3%83%BB%E3%83%8F%E3%82%A4%E3%83%9E%E3%83%B3%EF%BC%88%E3%83%86%E3%82%A3%E3%82%BF%E3%83%BC%E3%83%B3%E3%82%BA%EF%BC%89

>>15200283
Zabi's atrocities during the OYW make the Titans seem like complete utter fucking babies.
Outside of Basque Titans didn't even have anybody in particularly bad, except for maybe Jamaican whom is the pretty much the best definition of yes man if there ever was.

>>15200352
>Jamaican was based on Hafez Assad

This alone makes him a good guy.

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literally our guy, he would make it all so great

>>15200616

The guy was basically a sociopath who was carrying a slightly modified doctrine of the Jovian Matriarchy belief system that would play a role in the formation of the Jupiter Empire and eventually was the heart and soul of the Zanscare movement.

Jupiter's upper class and leadership has always stood by the concept of making the figure heads of its movements women, mostly to give the working class of the colonies around Jupiter somthing they could view as trusting and loving compared to the harsh and brutal reality of how the Jovian colonies are actually run.

Scirroco: Was planning on using Reccoa, though that might have changed had he found a suitable substitute to her so he could pull his strings in the backround. Either he would have opened the Earth up to more harsh trade regulations from the Jupiter Energy Fleet, or just outright turned the planet and colonies into a unified state like Jupiter was.

Crux Dogachie: The head of the Jupiter Energy Fleet, then eventually the overlord of the Jovian Empire during Crossbone, the Matriarchy doctrine was played against him when the Federation sent in a young female spy at the age of 18 to catch his affection and become queen of Jupiter, while Crux Dogachie was well into his late 90's in U.C 0120. The federation planned to use the offspring of his and the spy to become the new leader of Jupiter, lowering the Helium-3 reserve to the lowest prices possible for the Federation to pay. The plan fails when Crux finds out the truth and decides to start working on a plan to kill every living creature on Earth with nuclear warheads, then turn the dead husk of the planet into a mining colony for the enslaved colonist. He also kills his wife and has his daughter imprisoned. All this because his whole belief of a false Matriarchy was used against him. He also has his ace piloted corps using machines with a womans face graphed onto it.

http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/Diona

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>>15200616
They really would

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>>15200739

>>15196698
>>15197218
seem like an excuse for a strategic failure the Japanese did that cost them a lot during that war

>>15197141
What's wrong with Taiwan?

>>15200616
>our guy
>Jovian
0/10
Try again next cycle.

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>>15201058
Go to bed Katz.

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>>15201070
>defending Jupiter

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>>15201077
Look Katz we get it your balls have yet to drop, everybody else understands the greatness of mobile suit strippers

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>>15201083
Lies.

Purging is most worthy, but NOT to the Jovian swine.

Seriously, even in 40k, Malcador takes Titan far away from Saturn because it's farther away from Jupiter.
Titan is a bastion of resolve an purity, Jupiter is Chaos trash.

>>15197291
>Bask: Psychopath with no real motive other than spreading misery and chaos for shits and giggles.
Some side material apparently said he was captured and tortured by the Zeeks during the OYW, which led to his eyes being fucked up. It's not much more of a motive, but it's something.

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>>15201083
>mobile suit strippers


what the fuck give me the jupitoris im coming over

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>>15201097
Ah yes, I have heard this before. If I recall correctly, that side material noted that he was already an asshole who despised spacenoids and was absolute overjoyed to hear that the Federation was going to send its entire fleet to curb stomp Zeons forces at Loum. After his Salamis is shot down and Jamitovs forces leave the battleground without him, Bask and his crew are captured by Zeon, who initially just hold him as a prisoner of war until he starts actively insulting them. From that point on, Zeon began conducting much more brutal interrogations on him daily to get him to crack on Federation secrets at Luna II. Bask held out, even after both of his eyes were badily damaged from constant UV ray torture sessions. He was eventually traded back to the Federation through a prisoner exchange set up by Jamitov Hyman in late February.

Bask learned that due to his nearly crippled eyesight that he would be removed from the military due to him no longer being fit for duty. He would counter this by having specialized goggles that would readjust his vision to stable levels. Now with a burning desire for revenge, and loyalty to Jamitov Hyman, Bask joins alongside Jamitovs 9th Fleet and are integral in both the recapture of Madras,India and Peking, China.