Just finished this and holy shit this was so much better than

7 and Delta are both pretty bad but if you're on 4chan you don't have anything better to do with your life so go ahead and watch them

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>>15191845
Seven, Denta and Frontier are puce cancer

Frontier a shit gabarge (moeshit + Idol shit + high school setting + yaoi bishounem MC)

>>15191995
>Frontier a shit gabarge (moeshit + Idol shit + high school setting + yaoi bishounem MC)

Fuck off graybeard. Go back to your shit seventies.

>Is Delta and 7 really worth watching?
yes, don't listen to the autists

>>15191845

Yeah, Frontier is actually pretty good. If you liked the series, give the movies a try. They sort of go in their own direction, but the new songs and scenes are pretty cool so if you want more Frontier you probably won't be disappointed.

As for the other two shows, I'll give you my honest opinion.

I would say that Macross 7 IS worth the watch, but you need to know what you are getting in to. Its a slow and rocky start. The first 15 or so episodes are sort of a drag, with a lot of formulaic episodes and stock footage and what feels like nothing happening. But once the show picks up (there is a lot of waffling about when exactly the show becomes good, so I cant give you an exact episode number) it gets really good in a crazy way. Just don't expect anything too serious.

Delta is kind of the opposite. It starts off seeming like a show that is going to be style over substance, and then they start hitting you with what looks like it will be a pretty cool plot too. For a few episodes, its a downright amazing Macross show.
And then it just... deflates. Characters stop getting development and and go into holding patterns that they never break out of even by the end of the show. The fights start getting super repetitive as a result of a powerup mode that makes the fights boring to watch (everything slows to a crawl, so you get 5 minutes of very slowly following the enemy and lining up a shot instead of the high-sped combat and choreography of Frontier) and in the end the powerup mode never actually matters anyway. Main characters just start sitting on the bench and waiting for their turn to be important, still holding their ticket when the final credits roll and in the end nothing is really resolved.
Unless you get really invested in watching Freya be cute and make silly faces, the show doesn't have a lot to offer. .

>>15191995
this

>>15191995

Frontier no more had a high school setting than SDF had a cafe setting. The shows included those things, but their settings were not limited to them. They barely involved them frankly.

You'll probably talk about episode 8 (I think) next, and act like the Sheryl's panties sequence was an entire episode, or that the majority of the episode was about or set in the school - ignoring that the actual panty sequence is less than two minutes and features literally no fan service despite being a panty chase.And that the episode has several plot or character advancing moments despite that, like the introduction of Ai, Ranka feeling like her career is stalling because of Sheryl despite the later's intentions and Sheryl moving her relationship with Alto forward. along with continuing to build up the mysteries of Leon and so on.

Shall we act like SDF was a moe show about guys discovering idols now because of the three spies or something?

Sometimes I feel like there are more cancerfag (waifufag, yurifag, SJW, feministard, shoujofag, boogeymanfag, idolfag, moefag) disguised as mechafag than real mechafag.

>>15192230
Holy crap this.
7 is great, although don't be surprised if Basara takes a while to grow on you.
And Delta should have ended after 13 eps.

>>15192249

I know what you mean. Elitefags who act like only people they approve of are real fans are the worst and they seem to be everywhere. They're usually loud too.

>>15192267

It really seems to be a problem on /m/. For whatever reason, the /m/echa community is just absurdly defensive. Everyone is always spitting venom at everyone else for the most trivial shit.

Blame it on 4chan all you want, but I know other boards that don't have this problem.

>>15192258

Delta would still have been kind of bad if it had ended after 13 episodes really, given that it would mean there was no resolution for a lot of the plot elements and Hayate would have beaten Keith using a power up with no real emotional climax or skill improvement only two episodes after Messer dies. It just would have been a different kind of bad to the one we apparently got. I say apparently, because I didn't even get around to watching the final 4 or so episodes since the second half bored me.

Frontier is better than 7 and Delta.
If 7 was 26 episodes and Delta was 51 episodes, maybe they could have been decent. 7 is still the better series compared to Delta though.

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>>15191845
>Is Delta and 7 really worth watching?

Absolutely not! If you're expecting either of those to be on the same level of Frontier, you're only in for a world of disappointment. Now, Gundam SEED, Code Geass and Guilty Crown? Those shows are definitely more your speed.

>>15191845
Delta is thrash, avoid it like the plague. 7 is good depending on how much you can tolerate Basara, the first half is also kind of slow. Second half is godlike though.

>>15193260
The second half was just song wank on kawamori's end. Also it was a lot of Freya sugoi. Honestly the analysis here>>15192230
Is right. It's like Kawamori just got bored with macross in general and decided to sabotage it since he didn't get to do what he wanted.

>>15192230
wholeheartedly agree with you about Delta. I too went into it with a lot of reservation. The first 10 episodes were honestly way better than I thought they would be, hell, that episode where Hayate and Mirage were training and then Freyja starts singing and her and Hayate have that awesome moment of synergy Gave me SDF vibes. Then the show went terribly downhill. After ep 10 I couldn't even bring myself to keep watching. It really was one of those what the fuck happened things.

>>15193328
OP here. I mostly watch 80-90s shows and I've seen pretty much all of them (from Brave series to Votoms and Layzner and even most of the weird OVAs like Rumic World, Riding Bean and Del Power). I don't see why you would compare Frontier to SEED, Code Geass or Guilty Crown (which is definitely the worst of the ones you mentioned). Frontier was pretty solid most of the time and it really had that same feel as original SDF Macross. The fights and animation were really well done (and I absolutely hate CGI and digital animation), the music was good and the characters were interesting, though not too well written. It's definitely not SEED bad.

>>15194384
He's insulting your taste by recommending shows he considers objectionable.

>>15191845
>Is Delta and 7 really worth watching?

Delta is raw trash, 7 is campy with some good crazy stuff but lots of dragging.

>>15191845
you should watch 7 OVA just for space whales

>>15192285

it was all the normies that were brought on by TTGL, before that the board was even slower than mollasses but it wasnt as toxic

>>15191845
Watch the frontier movies

They are awesome

>>15191845
Delta is good up to episode 13 before becoming nothing but pointless exposition until the last episode. 7 is only slightly better because instead of starting off well, it ends well. It's still not good though because the characters fucking suck and the plot is pants on head retarded as a sequel to SDF and Plus. The only reason people will tell you 7 is genuinely good is because Delta and II exist.

>>15194830
Delta is mediocre up to episode 13 before becoming nothing but pointless exposition.

FTFY

>>15194384
I don't think Frontier is that close to the original Macross to be honest.

>>15191845
A shame the franchise is dead now, Frontier was pretty good indeed.

Kawamori and Delta killed the whole thing for good though. A real shame.

>>15197301
Shut the fuck up, faglord. We're already getting another anime next year, the franchise is far from dead.

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Excuse me, is this macross thread?
Why macross 7 is so goddamn repetitive? Every single episode, same shit, over and over. When will this supposedly amazing anime get good?

>>15198293
when sound force is formed

>>15191845
Seven >>>>>> Frontier

>>15194830

If anything Plus is the one that's retarded as a sequel to SDF. Frontier is just more of the same. Also, Delta is good for about 7 episodes, mediocre from about 7 to 14 or so and then just plain bad afterwards. 7 is rather boring for the first 20 odd episodes, but the rest is good. People have been saying why with years before Delta was even announced without ever mentioning II.

I agree with you on Frontier, but
>I made the mistake of watching 2 and it was so depressingly bad I lost hope on this series
Fuck you

>>15198318
And that will happen around ep 30, or 40, right? Just have to endure it for now, right? Feels like I've heard that song more than a hundred times already. If only it was enjoyable, like a genuinely powerful and passionate rock/metal. Not this tame pop shit. I hate it.

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>>15198917
AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH

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Fucking space vampires.

>>15199058
>Fucking space vampires.

Best vamp ever. She even has a galaxy wide orgasm with Basara. Can't top that. Macross 7 for the ultimate win.

>>15198917
you'll end up hearing holy lonely light a lot more in the second half so you better get used to it.

>>15199152
Stockholm syndrome is starting to set it so I'm gonna be alright.

>>15199152
Actually, holy lonely light isn't bad at all. I was talking about planet dance, it's just so mild and generic.

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>mfw while watching 7

>>15199141
>Macross 7 for the ultimate win.

god it sure is 2007 in here all of a sudden.

>>15198808
>Plus is retarded but 7 is good
Stop.

>>15198808
I disagree about Plus, but
>mentioning II
Holy shit was it bad, I don't remember a single thing about it. And I watched it yesterday.

>>15199986

Honestly, as terrible an opinion it is, it doesn't surprise me in the least. I mean, we've had retards claiming for a good while now that Zero is worse than Frontier AND 7 simply because it doesn't have
>Muh popstar waifus

>>15200063
Zero's worse due to some real jank scene choreography along with the most infuriating ending I can think of in a show, and I've seen stuff with some pretty bullshit endings.

Starts off with a strong footing and then fumbles the ball nonstop until it's over.

>>15200063
> it doesn't have popstar waifus
What's the point of calling it macross then?

I really like Macross 7 but the pacing of the series is pretty bad. I always thought it would be a great story to remake into an OAV or even some movies that cuts all the bullshit and just tells the main story.

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>>15200073
>jank scene choreography along with the most infuriating ending I can think of

Have absolutely no idea what you mean on either of these points. Zero has bar none some of the best dogfights this franchise has to offer and as for the ending... Well, where else was there to go with it? Either the Birdman continues losing its shit and destroying all of humanity to end their war for them, or.... It just fucks off with its little co-pilot to a more peaceful part of the galaxy to wait out its judgement. What would you do differently?

>>15192230
>I cant give you an exact episode number
This >>15199058 is the exact moment 7 start getting better.

>>15200114
My recurring problem with Zero is that the action is so frantic, so weightless at times that it felt completely at odds with its chronological placement in the Macross continuity.

There were also a few sequences that really bugged me in how they were executed; I'm actually really accepting of CGI in animation, but I felt that Zero demonstrated a lack of experience on Satelight's part in how to make use of the tools they wielded. Stuff like putting objects of focus in the dead center of view so that it looks like the world moves around them rather then they moving through the world, or shifting between drawn and rendered assets instead of being consistent and sticking to just one or the other... it's these technical punts that really frustrate me, because at times Zero looks great, yet moves like ass.

As for the ending, it's the Monster that marches up onto the deck and decides to take a potshot at the birdman that gets me salty. Could've had a nice peaceful resolution but no someone had to plink the birdman. Never fails to get me mad.

Why do people hate Macross 2? Its basically Megazone 23 x DYRL, its not amazing but also not deserving of the tirades it gets.

>>15200332
>the action is so frantic, so weightless at times that it felt completely at odds with its chronological placement in the Macross continuity

That's just the result of wildly different budgets than anything. DYRL for example, has much more frenetic action scenes than anything in 7, and even Plus at times despite the obvious tech gap between the VF-1 and 19.

And to me, it feels more natural that way. Battroid mode would be a nightmare to control given how awkward it would be switching from fighter mode, so naturally that first transformation has the VF-0S buzzing around madly like a hornet.

>As for the ending, it's the Monster that marches up onto the deck and decides to take a potshot at the birdman that gets me salty

Seriously? You're upset that the Birdman got itself singed on its fast regenerating armor to save the islanders before taking off? Do you not remember how the Protodeviln constantly shook off nukes like nothing? Because they're basically the same class as the Birdman, overtaken by space demons.

>>15199986

I didn't actually say Plus was retarded, only that if you're going to start comparing sequels based on comparison to SDF that Plus is the one that stands out and in that way is retarded, not Frontier. Which is much the same in a lot of ways.

>>15200063
It's not just the lack of memorable idols, it's the lack of memorable characters in general. They're all downright unlikeable. Mix that with halfassed villains, a story nearly as retarded as 7, forgettable music and songs, and probably the worst ending in Macross history and you got yourself something that can rival Delta, 7, and II as the worst.

>>15191845
>Is Delta and 7 really worth watching?

If you liked the production values of Frontier, you'd probably like Delta. I recommend watching Zero first since Delta alludes to it quite heavily. 7's only positive is the music compilation which is what kept it going to be the most expansive entry in the entire franchise in terms of episodes, OVAs, and movies. Realistically, it's just big commercial to sell you CDs and toys with a very goofy story to string it along. It's also very repetitive which makes a slog especially considering the length of time you have dedicate to watching it.

Also if you've enjoyed the Frontier TV show, I highly recommend watching the Frontier movies. The movies are far and away a much better version of Frontier.

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>>15199058
Was she autistic?

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>>15203423
Most people on that show were.

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Also, you didn't lie. It had a terrible start, but now it's fucking awesome.

>>15192285
It's because all the fucking newfags on /m/ can't avoid feeding a troll or taking the bait like retards. Seriously. /m/ has no filters at all. Is it because most of the board is underaged or autistic? I dunno, I just know that 90% of the time people will respond to posts that are obvious drivel in the most ridiculous, over the top fahsion.

>>15203492
I prefer Veffidas' brand of autism. She doesn't suck the life force out of people.

>>15200063
>claiming for a good while now that Zero is worse than Frontier AND 7 because it doesn't have popstar waifus
How about lack of good and likable characters, plot, meaningful conflict, music etc? People were always bashing Zero for those things.
7 always causes a lot of arguing with some people loving it and others hating it. But you won't find more than 2 posts per year defending Zero. Even Delta and II got more people defending them.
As for Frontier back when it was airing /m/ complained more about high school setting and turning Macross into typical teen romance/comedy. Word waifu was barely mentioned. Back then it still had its original extreme meaning, but Sheryl and Ranka were pretty shitty waifu material for your average 4chan otaku. If someone uses word waifu when complaining about Frontier it's the easiest way to detect faggots who can't make any valid criticism and instead use bunch of buzzwords.

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>>15191845
Not going to lie, besides the music, 7 is pretty shit. The plot doesn't matter, the characters don't matter, and the mecha porn exists only as stock footage that you see over and over. It's pretty sad when the most satisfying pay-off at the end is subplot that was merely a running gag throughout the whole show.

>>15203541
> the most satisfying pay-off at the end is subplot that was merely a running gag throughout the whole show.
Flower girl plot will have a resolution? Ho boy, I can't wait.

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>>15203529
She doesn't?

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i actually liked delta more because of this cute apple muncher

>>15203541
She should have switched it up, wear some black panties or pink, or striped.

>>15203541
still mad that she had no major role in 7

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And done. Sivil is my wife. And she has the same seiyuu as the flower girl. Coincidence? I don't think so.

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I'm pretty sure the people who shit on Frontier constantly haven't even seen it. Great story, great music.

>>15203539

Let me be the two for this year then, given that I'll probably reply to a reply by you with something else good about Zero. I re-watched Zero about 6 months ago after someone here complained about how terrible it is and found it more enjoyable than I recalled (having not seen it in years at that point) and disagreed with most of that anon's posts. I enjoyed Shin and Edgar as characters, Mao is a cute little sister an Sara is fine as a love interest. I liked how Shin's character changed over the course of the six episodes, found the show occasionally funny but overall interesting and liked the conflict between old and new that the show was presumably gunning for. It's no SDF, and it's never going to be my favorite entry or anything, but I much prefer it to Delta or II and would probably prefer it to Plus as well honestly, since outside the animation and designs I'm not really a fan of Plus. I liked the ideas it posited, like drones and virtual idols, but I don't really feel like it did anything particularly interesting with them and the resolution was kind of meh.

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>those quties
>ZERO fanart
Dostedt

>>15191845
I really liked Frontier, delta kind of lost my interest and I dropped the show. Normally I wouldn't like this (because UC gundam beats a dead horse) but maybe an OVA about remnant zentradi or maybe some more info about the supervision army. I think this would be a good idea, and I'm kind of sick of the idol stuff.

>>15204844
Setting exploration is nice, but I don't see how"OVA about remnant zentradi or maybe some more info about the supervision army" can keep the same theme of macross.

>>15204854
I don't think it needs to have the same theme. I would like something different.

>>15204859
Zero was different and people hated it.

>>15204862

Who's people? I don't know how it sold, but looking it up for the sake of curiosity on ANN and MAL it ranks pretty well and certainly better than at least a few other entries like 7 and Delta. It even has a higher score on ANN than Plus. People here hate it. People on other sites don't seem to. I have no idea what the general opinion or the Japanese one is.

>>15204890
>ANN and MAL

Do yourself a favor a fuck off there

>>15204905

I'd rather you distinguish between someone using those sites to illustrate a point and people using them to validate their opinion.

>>15204905
I'm sure he just looked it up there, to form an argument. Not like he's a regular there.

>>15204905
Chill your aspie rage dude

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Dynamite, ovas and "movie" were fun as hell. OVAs because final episode and entire fleet of zentradi girls collectively cumming rockets. Dynamite and "Movie" because songs. Heart and soul makes even an empty husk of a human being like me feel alive again. And that really was the whole point, right?

>>15205140
Why the fuck does one of the worst entries in Macross have movies and OVAs?

>>15205778
Because it was popular?

>>15206825
>>15205778
and it made money

>>15205778
>Why the fuck does one of the worst entries in Macross have movies and OVAs?

Figure it out.

>>15204756
Why would there be? They were supporting characters in a mediocre OVA that was a spin-off of another TV show. That's as obscure as it gets for speaking roles.

>>15191845
Robotech: The Frontier Saga

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3 versions of the same first episode? Who thought this is a good idea?

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>>15207272
Rewatching frontier and I remembered how much of a best girl Nana is. Look at her, she's gorgeous. When I watched this back in 2008 I genuinely fell in love with her. Don't think the term waifu even existed then, but yeah.

>>15207272
from what I remember, there was a shortened preview episode that was released months before the anime, the regular episode, then an extended one...

>>15207432
Building up the hype, eh. I guess it was successful.

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Man, I sure miss Hirano. Such a good voice.
https://i.4cdn.org/wsg/1487110288670.webm

>>15191845
The Frontier movies are even better.

I'm surprised how amazingly paced and scripted the first 7 or so episodes of Frontier are. It really sells the Frontier as the colony in space besieged by enemies better than almost any other show.

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>>15210058
>how amazingly paced and scripted the first 7 or so episodes of Frontier are

When people praise Frontier, I'm pretty certain that those first 7 episodes, along with the finale are the only parts of the show they actually remember. Because everything else is complete dogshit, much like Delta was from episode 11 onward.

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>>15210077
That is actually correct. I remember a couple of first episodes and I remember that ending was great.

>>15210058
episode 7 of frontier is definitely the apex of the show until the finale

>>15210077
>>15210117
>>15210137
>along with the finale
>one huge laser show that doesn't actually tie up anything
>great

>>15210176
B-but the songs!

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>>15210176
>big and exciting laser show
>not a great ending

>>15210058
>I'm surprised how amazingly paced and scripted the first 7 or so episodes of Frontier are
Well you are easily impressed with shit.
>>15210077
Nah when people praise Frontier its because it was their first Macross.

>>15210077

Frontier is remembered well because it nailed the ending. The ending is the most important part of any show in terms of reputation and longevity, because the ending is the last thing you see of it AND its what everything else is building up to.

I can enjoy a show with a weak start as long as it gets better latter.

I can enjoy a show with a weak middle, as long as it starts interestingly enough and gets better later.

But a show that starts strong, stays strong, and then absolutely drops the ball at the end? I'm going to remember that as being a bad show of wasted potential.

Frontier has a decent to good start, and the whole final episode is just amazing. Yes, its a big flashy space battle, but what a flashy space battle! The song medley in synch with the action turns that entire final fight sequence into something great, and ends the show on a real high note.

In comparison, Delta miiiight have been able to pull up out of their nose dive and equal out at being 'okay', but their final episode doesn't save them. Indeed, the final episode of Delta might even be one of the worst episodes in the show. So even if Delta didn't have a sour second half anyway, it was never going to be remembered fondly with that half-assed ending that doesn't tie anything up, doesn't let the characters do anything cool, doesn't have any new songs... it just has nothing to offer aside from "No, protagonists! Let me, Keith, solve this problem! You can watch, I guess. Why are you here again?"

>>15210185
>Nah when people praise Frontier its because it was their first Macross.
And when people bash F that's because they started watching anime after 2012. It's always the same arguments about idols, waifus, bishounens, school setting, fanservice and even something as retarded as pandering to pedophiles.
And I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out that I watched original (even if it was Robotech version) before you were even born. Frontier is the closest thing we got to original, to that space opera with a big city-ship trying to survive while being completely isolated in the space. With lots of time spent on portrayal of mundane lifetime on the ship. With proper adult~ish romance and melodrama. And finally and most important with great mass space fights which were all about firepower and not about shooting laser from your mouth or abusing song buffs.
Frontier had it weak points, but every single anime in existence has flaws.
Frontier was great and I hope recently announced new Macross will try to follow its and SDF's formulas.

>>15210500
>Frontier is remembered well because it nailed the ending.
Nailed the ending by not answering or resolving anything and just giving us a pretty light show?

>>15210778
> by not answering or resolving anything and just giving us a pretty light show?

We got a satisfying and spectacular final battle that definitively stopped Grace's plan and freed the Vajra, and in the process mankind came to an understanding with the Vajra about the misconception regarding their hive mind. Ranka successfully communicated to them that we were not kidnapping and torturing queens, which is what caused them to attack Frontier in the first place, and Frontier was able to land on the Vajra homeworld to start a new colony, bringing the journey of the Frontier fleet to a close.

Sheryl is cured of her disease. Ranka says she won't give up, but its pretty clear to anyone paying attention that Alto has already chosen Sheryl. We end with Alto flying in a real sky, which is what he wanted in the beginning.

What else do you want wrapped up?

>>15210500
This Frontier's last stretch knocked it out of the park promising an ending that would go out with a bang and actually delivering on it. It genuinely got better with characterization and setting the stakes which characters actually set aside their own personal bullshit to address.

The only real problem with the final episodes if I had to say any was Ranka.

Delta stakes on the other hand never really felt high. This is especially obvious when you compare Messer's death to Michael's. Michael's death was the signal of the tonal shift and that shit was getting serious. Messer's death on the other hand was just business as usual.

>>15210778
It answered everything but the love triangle, which to be fair that conclusion was pretty obvious to anyone with eyes, even though it wasn't outright stated.

>>15210807
>Delta stakes on the other hand never really felt high. This is especially obvious when you compare Messer's death to Michael's. Michael's death was the signal of the tonal shift and that shit was getting serious. Messer's death on the other hand was just business as usual.

Messer's death SHOULD have been a huge deal. He was the only thing keeping the White Knight occupied and preventing Keith from destroying everyone else. Having to step up to the plate to survive Keith should have been a major turning point in the show.

Instead, Hayate's all "Naw dog, I got this. I bet I can fly as good as three people put together! You don't need to hire anyone else." And for some reason everyone just sort of goes along with this unsubstantiated claim from someone who is one of their weakest plane-mode combatants.

There were half a dozen ways this could have been done well. Hayate and Mirage could have had to work together to tie up Keith, 2v1ing him to keep him in check because neither of them is individually as good as Messer was. Hayate could have honorable challenged Keith to Battroid combat which Keith is too knightly to decline, shifting the focus to a battle where Hayate can actually compete. Hell, hayate maybe actually just has to be good at his job.

But nope, song buffs. Really boring to watch song buffs.

>>15210185
>Nah when people praise Frontier its because it was their first Macross.

Macross F is successful because it has mass casual appeal with its production values. The difference between Delta and Frontier second half of Frontier doesn't peter out as much as Delta did.

>>15210836
The songs were poorly used too, though in hindsight that may be because the people who wrote the songs and the people who person who composed the OST weren't working together, but then again AKB0048 had good song direction.

The songs in Delta just felt like they were tacked on they didn't really enhance the scene. So the whole usage of song buffs felt hokey despite the fact that other Macross series it as well.

>>15210185
Actually a lot of people who watched Frontier had at least seen SDF, Plus, or II. And the people who came out of it ended up picking up and enjoying the previous Macross series.

Delta on the other hand made people lose interest in it.

>>15210506
> shooting laser from your mouth or abusing song buffs.
Oh shut it, if was awesome!

>>15210836
>Messer's death SHOULD have been a huge deal.
No. Posts like yours annoy me more than Delta itself. Poster you were replying to correctly pointed out that Michael death was just a way to shift the tone of the anime. The stakes were already high because the whole Frontier colony was endangered. Michael was nobody and his death didn't change anything in conflict, but it was just a reminder for a viewer that it's not a causal space journey.
And the same applies to Messer and Keith. They are nobodies. Messer's death did not change anything because he was just one soldier. Keith was just a soldier too, his death would not change anything in conflict. You could remove him from second half and no one would notice difference. The final blow killing Roid could be made by anyone else. Or Keith could kill all Walkures and it would not have significant impact too because Xaoc never felt important in this conflict.
Everything you wrote about "missed possibilities" would not change a damn thing, it would not improve Delta. People here are writing about high stakes and consequences, you want just epic Goku vs Sasuke battle.
It disgusts me. People like you still create demand and their shitty opinion still influence decisions of producers. I just hope that there are very few people in Japan having same opinion.

>>15211014
> And the same applies to Messer and Keith. They are nobodies.

Not true. Delta can claim it was about a war all it wants, but in practice what we saw of it was 5v5 air battles. The rest of the 'war' barely event counted as a backdrop.

In such a small conflict (5v5) the loss of even a single person can have a huge impact. Not only did Delta lose a pilot (turning it into 5v4) but they lost far and away their best pilot of the 5. The reason that the next episode after Messer's death starts with them already back at base and mourning him is because if you actually showed the fight that, logically, should have continued after Messer's death? None of Walkure or Delta get out alive.

And calling Keith a nobody is just outright false. Dudes royalty, has the ear of the king, singlehandedly takes out an entire NUNS reinforcement fleet by himself and is the one who actually does shit in the final episode. Every scene that Keith is in revolves around Keith, both in the plane and out of it. You have to jump through some serious mental gymnastics to call him unimportant.

>>15211072
Not that anon, but all that means is that there's a problem with Delta's very set up.

>>15211077

Oh, I very much agree. The initial premise of Delta isn't inherently bad (Windies using music-based mind control as a weapon to turn the tables on the NUN, Walkure as a response force that mistakes the early weapons tests of said mind control as a disease) and a lot of the characters could have been good.

The problem is that way too much ends up on the windemeran's plate, and it leaves the protagonists with little to do besides react and observe. Because the conflict feels so small with the knights always fighting delta and vice versa, almost nothing is ever allowed to progress.

We see Delta fight enemies other than the knights all of twice, and they can't kill the knights because of plot. And every time we see the knights fight any other non-delta NUNS forces, its so one sided in their favor its absurd. So the Knights come off as unbeatable and Xaos comes off as bumbling, because they are never allowed to succeed.

This applies to the larger ebb and flow of the combat too. Windemere can't afford to suffer major defeats, they control too little territory. A single massive defeat could disrupt their whole plan, and the finale depends on them being in a position to threaten the galaxy. So any time Delta 'wins' a fight, it doesn't actually mean anything because losing that fight was Roids plan all along or something.

Without even getting into any of the character arcs that are deeply flawed, the balance between protagonist and antagonist is all out of whack and none of the characters beside Roid have any sense of agency throughout the show, because everyone is just following orders and getting their hand held by the plot.

>>15211072
>In such a small conflict (5v5) the loss of even a single person can have a huge impact.
Huge impact on what? Kill all 5 knights and war could still continue on because the main weapon of windies were protoculture tech and Heinz's songs. Kill all Delta and Walkures and it would not change the flow of war at all because they never did anything really important. That's the main problem.
I would slightly disagree with >>15211077 though. Initial set up could work, but Delta and Knights should have been promoted in importance. Knights never saw Walkures and Delta as the main obstacle in their plan. Walkures were considered to be just a small part of NUNS forces. Same for Delta - for them Kinghts were just part of enemy forces, killing them was never Delta's main goal.

>Every scene that Keith is in revolves around Keith
Nah. He took out the whole fleet because of the songs. In the second to last episode even bigger NUNS fleet was destroyed without his participation at all. And even in the last episode you need to change like 30 seconds of footage to make Roid be killed by Hayate instead of by Keith.

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After rewatching it, Frontier was pretty meh. Honestly, I liked 7 and original SDF more.

>>15211113
Anon you don't see the point. The problem is that even though Delta likes to act as though Hayate and Chaos is important, the truth is they aren't, and Hayate the soldier isn't important, because there are better pilots out there than Hayate and Mirage. In fact the two of them are pretty much the some of the worst pilots as far as Macross. Their universe literally has set that those signficantly more experienced and more talented pilots on call if they ever need help. So again the set of 4v.4 doesn't work. Heck Messer himself pointed out that the belief itself was a fallacy, and when you look at his universe you realize that he's right. The problem is scope, Delta is trying to act as thought it's consequences are far reaching but it's scope is minuscule to the point of disbelief.

Frontier never acted as though Alto was somehow special, on that battlefied they were just soldiers, so instead the anime focused on their lives outside of the battlefield. It knew it's scope was large and far reaching, so it let viewer know and feel that. Which is why Michael's death hit so hard. It wasn't important because the group lost a sniper, they have multiple snipers in their army. It was important because they lost a friend, comrade and lover.

Delta's only having 4 pilots and that big ass quarter made no sense, ditto for Windermere only have 4 sky knights. The set up is awful because the scope is off.

>>15191845
7 is fine if you don't marathon it. But Delta is shit.

Don't forget to watch the Frontier movies. The second one is great.

>>15211191
I hate Frontier TV. But I love Frontier movies. Especially sayonara no tsubasa. Ranka getting rejected is too satisfying

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>>15211263
>I hate Frontier TV. But I love Frontier movies.

Those are my sentiments exactly. Honestly, the Frontier movies are the best thing to happen in franchise since Plus.

>>15211233
>Anon you don't see the point.
More like you're blind or just can't read. I already told that they all are not important. And the only way to fix Delta's set up (instead of completely scrapping it and making something else) is to make them more important. For example make that Heinz needs to sing from within the battle and put him into Keith's Draken. Suddenly Keith getting shot would mean complete defeat for windies. Make Delta's 5 pilots to be the only one immune to Heinz songs (everyone else would get Var'd even when listening to Walkure's songs) and suddenly they are the only saviours of the galaxy. I'm not saying this is how it should have been, it's just to illustrate that initial 5v5 set up could work.

>>15211263
>>15211288
What's so different in movies which makes them better than TV? It's just compact retelling, almost nothing was changed. I'm not saying movies are bad, I'm saying both TV and movies are equally good.

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>>15211263
I'm rewatching them now and yeah, they're much better structured. But concert scenes are insanely over the top, not in a good way.

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>>15211299
>almost nothing was changed.

Have you seen the movies? There's quite a few plot points that are different from the TV show especially in the second movie. Things happen in the movie that don't happen in the show while things from the show are completely retconned. It's pretty much a DYRL version of Frontier.

>>15211395
What's up with Exsedol? He saw the darn protoculture for the first time or something?

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>>15211305
I actually like the concert sequences.

>>15211414
Some are nice, but for the most part they're absolutely batshit.

>>15211290
No, it's just opposite, instead of trying to pretend that they're important as soldiers, the only fix is actually give them characterization and character so the viewer can give shit about them, that's why Michael and his death was so effective. The world itself makes you idea even worse than what we had.

The reason why frontier had stakes is because all of Frontier's pilots had characterization so you personally cared if they lived or died. The same isn't true for DELTA.

>>15211305
If you have the technology to go over top, then why not make use of it?

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>>15211419
Sheryl did have one or two really weird ones, but they were pretty spectacular set pieces regardless which makes sense in franchise about pop-idols.

>>15211440
Well she is an intergalatic pop idol, she's going to have some out there music videos and concerts.

Nyan Clip was a gift.
https://youtu.be/2gd_6vQ-nlA

>>15211434
>The reason why frontier had stakes is because all of Frontier's pilots had characterization so you personally cared if they lived or died.
I didn't give a shit about anyone in Frontier largely because the cast was so bland and unremarkable.

>>15210797
>We got a satisfying and spectacular final battle
Stopped reading there

>>15211434
>The reason why frontier had stakes is because all of Frontier's pilots had characterization so you personally cared if they lived or died.
Do you know what high stakes mean? The stakes in Frontier was that failure would mean death of 5 million people inside the colony ship, not just death of one pilot and 2 idols. It has absolutely nothing to do with how anyone felt about characters. It's all about consequences and importance of everything happening on the screen. Meanwhile you're just talking about attachment to characters and that's completely different concept. You must be totally retarded to not understand the difference.

Set up is not that important if you want to make characters more likeable and grow some attachment to them. You just need proper characterization and development (though Delta lacked it too). I did care about Freyja and even worried about her when she discovered her white skin disease for the first time. I did care if she lives or dies. But I didn't care about conflict, about its resolution and the whole damn plot. Even if all the characters had the greatest development in the history of anime I would still not care about the whole conflict. It would be just another example of great characters trapped in boring anime.

>>15210895
>Actually a lot of people who watched Frontier had at least seen SDF, Plus, or II
Nope, I can attest to seeing A LOT of people who said Frontier was their first Macross back then and hell its success was largely attributed to casuals not long time fans. Its the same shit with SEED, people were just a hell of a lot more impulsive into buying anime back then because there wasn't a whole lot of mainstream hits during that era.

>>15211305
IMO bunny and kuma are the most gorgeous concert scenes ever. Even though I don't like Ranka, I still find kumakuma so unrealistically impressive

>>15211453
Good for you.

>>15211456
Yeah, I do. It's one thing for a show to say that hundreds of people died in one day, and to say that hundreds of people died in the one say plus someone from the main cast so the named characters are effected by that death. Michael's death was the start of that tonal shift. Which didn't really take an effect until the episode afterwards. There's a difference in perspective.

Considering how a lot of people were upset about Michael's death, I think that the show did it's job properly, despite you yourself not caring. Besides I'm not just talking about audience reaction I'm also referring to the reaction of the characters to the event in universe. The characters in Frontier changed after the death of their friend, but the characters from Delta really seemed to stay the same.

>>15211457
And I can attest to seeing A LOT of people who had seen at least one Macross before watching Frontier (at the time Macross II and PLUS) were actually airing on cable in the states. Hell I lost count of the amount of people whom I had to explain how II wasn't canon. Plus especially since casuals loved Kanno and were looking into the library to see what show she had composed for before. And I was actually on several forums at the time the anime was airing, and many of them admitted to only having ever watched PLUS before Frontier.

Also Adult Swim at the time re-aired old Robotech episodes often, so people did know what it was.

>>15211604
>And I can attest to seeing A LOT of people who had seen at least one Macross before watching Frontier (at the time Macross II and PLUS) were actually airing on cable in the states
That's cute but they were in the minority and I was mostly talking about Japan.

>>15211637

Its a good thing you put those goalposts on wheels. Makes them a lot easier to move!

>>15211582
Good for me to proving your stupid assertion wrong. One of the big criticisms towards Frontier was how shitty the characters were so I don't see how you dumbfucks are up and arms over Delta's characterization being the same in that regard.
>>15211582
>Considering how a lot of people were upset about Michael's death
He wasn't even a popular character and the only retards who were upset were shipperfags, his death for far too abrupt and unnecessary to give any sort of reaction.
>>15211604
Cool bullshit bro

>>15211646

>15211457
>A LOT of people who said Frontier was their first Macross back then and hell its success was largely attributed to casuals not long time fans. Its the same shit with SEED, people were just a hell of a lot more impulsive into buying anime back then because there wasn't a whole lot of mainstream hits during that era.

Now considering Frontier was never released in the West your assertion is just plain stupid also you're wrong btw.

>>15211662
>One of the big criticisms towards Frontier was how shitty the characters were
On robotechx forums? Characters is usually the last thing people criticize about F here aside for rare generic hate towards Alto because he is too bishounen for /m/.

>>15211662
>his death for far too abrupt and unnecessary to give any sort of reaction.
Exactly this. I don't feel anything when Michael died. But Messer's death hit so hard that I couldn't recover within one week

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>>15211715
>Characters is usually the last thing people criticize about F
We to out yourself as being a newshit.

>>15211715
Not even him but as someone who was here while Frontier was airing that is completely wrong. There's a reason why Sheryl is amount the only character anyone remembers from Frontier and that's largely due to how much they pushed her than her being a good character.
>>15211720
Well yeah Messer was simple yet had a constant presence in the show with a defined personality. Michael was just the boring ladies man who didn't really do much at all and then comes his heroic sacrifice which was just a huge contrivance, the only thing of worth about his death was how shocking graphic it was like Kawamori had some pent up rage against him or something. They didn't kill him off in the movies probably because much like Ranka's friend Nao it didn't really contribute to anything of worth.

>>15211637
>and I was mostly talking about Japan.
Who cares about Japan? Both >>15210077 and >>15210185 probably implied western audience and 4chan in particular. Frontier was barely popular here when it was airing compared to what it was in Japan. /a/ mostly cared about R2 in that season and Frontier threads were not too popular (relatively to the sales and popularity it got in Japan). In the beginning big part of any thread was discussion of SDF. Plus and 7.
And as for /m/ I didn't feel any significant influx of people here after Frontier. Casuals liked it for action/music/romance, not for mecha. I'm pretty sure for absolute majority of people in this board Frontier wasn't their first Macross.

>>15211736
Nice attempt trying to fit in. At least try checking archives, we had plenty of Macross/Frontier threads even after the death of old archives.

>>15211748
>Not even him but as someone who was here while Frontier was airing that is completely wrong. There's a reason why Sheryl is amount the only character anyone remembers from Frontier
Yes, and Char is the only character anyone remembers from early UC gundams. No, that's absolutely not true. People bring up other Frontier characters in every Macross thread.

>>15211662
>He wasn't even a popular character and the only retards who were upset were shipperfags, his death for far too abrupt and unnecessary to give any sort of reaction.
Cool bullshit.

>Good for me to proving your stupid assertion wrong. One of the big criticisms towards Frontier was how shitty the characters were so I don't see how you dumbfucks are up and arms over Delta's characterization being the same in that regard.
Where? Only Alto, Ranka, and Klan received any real criticism. For Alto it wasn't even really his character just his looks, for Ranka her attitude, and for Klan again her looks.

>>15211748
>Not even him but as someone who was here while Frontier was airing that is completely wrong. There's a reason why Sheryl is amount the only character anyone remembers from Frontier and that's largely due to how much they pushed her than her being a good character.
That's wrong though, I remember entire blogs posts that mechafags dedicated to Sheryl. I also remember a lot of people liking her.

>>15211768
>Yes, and Char is the only character anyone remembers from early UC gundams.
No? People remember Amuro, Bright, Gihren, Garma, Kycilla
> People bring up other Frontier characters in every Macross thread.
No they don't. The only character that get brought up as much as Sheryl in Macross threads is Ranka and that's largely due to hate or how delusional her fanbase was.

>>15210797

> What else do you want wrapped up?

He probably thinks that the romance wasn't wrapped up, and thus nothing was. He's probably one of the people who complains that Alto is wishy-washy/indecisive too, because he thinks Alto couldn't decide between Ranka and Sheryl.

Which is of course, wrong, given that Alto tells Sheryl he will stay with her only a few episodes before they end, they go on dates, kiss several times, share a candle-light dinner and are implied to sleep together in the anime, which the novel outright says happens. Alto was not indecisive and the romance wasn't left open. The "both my wings" line often quoted to support the idea he couldn't choose was obviously about friendship given that Ranka is talking about friendship only a few seconds before hand and Alto absolutely did make a decision. He just didn't verbalize it in the finale, instead doing so several episodes before hand.

This is the reason that the movies had to have a scene where Alto verbalizes it in the finale, since people couldn't accept it otherwise.

>>15211833
>, I remember entire blogs posts that mechafags dedicated to Sheryl.
I just said that she was the only thing people remember about Frontier retard
>>15211827
>Cool bullshit.
Nah its true. I think here was more of an uproar when Messer died.

> Only Alto, Ranka, and Klan received any real criticism
Cool bullshit bro

>>15211835
>People remember Amuro, Bright, Gihren, Garma, Kycilla
People remember a lot more characters. And you missed characters that are even more popular than some you named. Please visit doctor, you may have a brain tumour that causes problems with your memory.

>No they don't.
So what do people discuss in Frontier threads then? Sheryl only? You should really check yourself if you can't see how retarded this claim is.

>>15211860
>Cool bullshit bro
Compared to your authoritative and trusted opinion, right?

>I think here was more of an uproar when Messer died.
Now I know for sure that you were not here when Frontier was airing.

>>15211827
>Where? Only Alto, Ranka, and Klan received any real criticism.
Yeah you weren't here at all. People hated that faggot Luca, people didn't like Grace, Brera or Leon the rest of the characters were so bland and forgettable that they didn't even registered the only character that was universally liked here was Ozma.
> For Alto it wasn't even really his character just his looks
People hated how there was nothing to his character whatsoever and how he was the most boring lead in the franchise.
>Ranka her attitude
People didn't like her character as a whole
>Klan again her looks.
There's literally nothing to her but her stupid gimmick to begin with.

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>>15211855
>All this headcanon

>>15210797
>We got a satisfying and spectacular final battle
Well that's a load of shit
> that definitively stopped Grace's plan and freed the Vajra, and in the process mankind came to an understanding with the Vajra about the misconception regarding their hive mind.
So much of that is never really detailed or even explained. Grace being the bad guy is poorly implemented along with what she was planning like the show had no fucking clue what to do with its cast so anyone could have been the bad guy.

>Sheryl is cured of her disease.
Also not explained.

>Ranka says she won't give up, but its pretty clear to anyone paying attention that Alto has already chosen Sheryl.
Cool bullshit bro

>>15211870
>People remember a lot more characters.
Yeah like John Job
>And you missed characters that are even more popular than some you named.
Pretty sure those were all the most popular character out of 0079.
>So what do people discuss in Frontier threads then?
There's more Macross 7 threads here than Frontier threads nowadays. This is the first Frontier thread in some time and as you can see nobody has anything to talk about.
>Compared to your authoritative and trusted opinion
Well you've already proven you weren't here while Frontier was airing so why should we believe you?
>Now I know for sure that you were not here when Frontier was airing.
Just a lot of butthurt shippers and the fact that his death coincided with Lockon's death, Alvin's death and Kurtz "death" thus 2008 was dubbed Year of the Dead Snipers.

>>15191995
>yaoi
Who, Alto? Please.
Mikhail was into his bigLITTLE Klan, Lucca was after set of big boobs.
>>15193328
Yes. Up until episode 13. Rest of the series is recycled movie material and, as this anon describes it>>15192230
, is mostly meh.
>>15194186
Sabotage might actually be true, considering what surfaced during series run. Executive meddling indeed.
>>15194440
Also, enka.

>>15211890
>Cool bullshit bro
I'm not him, but care to explain? Ranka fucks off completely the last several episodes while Alto chooses Sheryl over his duty to SMS, bangs her, and settles into a disgustingly cute married couple lifestyle. What more did you need, a fucking poem?

>>15210176
-Peace with Vajra hives.
-new planet to set onto.
-Exposing Galaxy and kicking Collective's collective ass.
-Ghost on Ghost action.
-solving romantic subplots.
Main love triangle stays unsolved in the series but as movies were already planned with resolution for that one, who cares. Also, what >>15210176 said, pretty much forty minutes of non stop action - without use of recycled animation.
Except for some VF-171s.
>laser show
It is like you want to be carrier punched.

>>15211881
Which part? Both animated series and novels are cannon, because lol in universe pieces of media. And it's mentioned in, if I remember it right, VF-25 datafile that Alto and Sheryl are now living together, post Frontier.
>>15211890
Define satisfying then. That's not an attack, just want to know what you would call proper final battle?
>Grace being the bad guy
And council of brains in a jars is better how?

>>15211907
>bigLITTLE
ARM go home.

>>15211898
>Pretty sure those were all the most popular character out of 0079.
>Kycilia
Yes, you definitely didn't miss another female character who is significantly more popular than Kycilia (you even spelled her name wrong). By the way I'm pretty sure even Klan had more threads here than her. Very memorable character, right?

>There's more Macross 7 threads here than Frontier threads nowadays.
Unfortunately archives disagree with you. Besides people never discuss only one series in one thread. And if you remove "when will 7 become good?" posts you will reduce all threads about 7 to nothing.

>you've already proven you weren't here while Frontier was airing so why should we believe you?
>we
And you already proved to be newfag. Meanwhile you couldn't disprove anything I said.

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>>15211881

It helps to actually watch shows before complaining about them. I can posts webms of everything I said if you want. It'll take me a few hours to download the entire show, but I can do it if you can wait. I'm wondering how long it'll take before someone tries to claim it doesn't count because he thought Sheryl was going to die now though, since that's often the response and ignores that they were acting lovey before he knew.

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>>15211715
>Characters is usually the last thing people criticize about F here aside for rare generic hate towards Alto because he is too bishounen for /m/.

I like bishounen characters, but Alto is just a really shitty one and I say that having seen Gundam Wing.

But really everybody in Macross F was just a paper thing archetype of characters that we've all seen before.

>>15210506
>Frontier was great and I hope recently announced new Macross will try to follow its and SDF's formulas.
While I agree with this very much, I also hope they don't ditch Delta's concept altogether. It struck a better balance of of glorious and ridiculous than 7 ever did(the first few eps anyways). Pilots were pilots, idols were idols. But just to be safe, another SDF like Macross is more than welcomed.

>>15210506
>Frontier is the closest thing we got to original
Frontier feels right at home with shitty modern anime. It pretty much took nothing from what made the original work to begin with.

>>15211996
>headcanon

>>15212802
It had valks, pop music, love triangle, and edgy young pilot mc. It did have what made the original good. The fuck are you on about, gramps?

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>>15211996
After that they fucked all night long, right?

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>>15212890
>It did have what made the original good.
>pop music, love triangle,

>>15212802
>Frontier feels right at home with shitty modern anime
Exactly. Plot, characters, antagonists. Songs too. Everything feels so generic and formulaic.
>>15212890
Original was good because it was about more than just valks, pop music and love triangle, you simpeton!

>>15213610
>more than
Like?
The whole 'war is bad' is present in Frontier as well, thou Kawamori's green thumb isn't as exposed as in Zero or Seven.
Songs sucked for you? Well, idols are, by definition, targeting wide audience, ergo music does feel generic. I, for one, love Sheryl performances, don't really care for Ranka's song. De gustibus et all.
Plot? It is the usual 'it came from outer space and is kicking our asses'. Vajra are literally space bugs, what did you expect?
Characters? Let us see, pilots, idols, various secondary characters, hive mind and their proxy, Grace. Literal clones of zentradi on Galia for nostalgia sake.
It's really about execution at this point, as it's pretty much impossible to create something that haven't already been done one way or another. Frontier is, again, a Macross story. What do you expect from it, a dead serious war drama? Lower deck story? Pure Idolmaster?
Seven Trash?
Ok. I do admit that I lust for The Ride being animated OAV or something.

>>15213591
And then they've fucked all night.
>implying
>>15213597
What made the original good in your eyes then?

>>15213597
Your reaction image tells about you more than you think it does. Faggot who probably discovered Macross only 2 years ago (at best) should not be allowed to talk what made original good.

>>15213610
Original post that started F-SDF comparison already mentioned more than just valks, songs and triangle: >>15210506. It may feel generic only now with shitton of anime actually copying some of Frontier elements. For example it actually started the whole boom of idol anime. But back then the only formulas it was copying was the ones from previous Macrosses.

>>15213728
>It may feel generic only now with shitton of anime actually copying some of Frontier elements.
None of the elements Frontier has are remotely original to it they're just anime elements in general. What sets SDF apart from Frontier was that it felt less of a byproduct of cooperate heads to appeal to different demos than what was essentially a product made by real robot nerds. Much like 0079there's elements in SDF that shows nowdays take for granted that if it aired now Hikaru would have no actual personality and Mimney would win by virtue of her being more popula.

>>15212890
>edgy young pilot mc

Well, I don't know if I'd call Rickaru and Isamu "edgy."

>>15213734
>What sets SDF apart from Frontier was that it felt less of a byproduct of cooperate heads
Oh god I bet you tipped your fedora to that little comment there. The original had naked genki girls and pop music, try again.

>>15213754
>The original had naked genki girls and pop music
So what? It had a lot of heart in it as well something severely lacking in Frontier.

>>15213734
What set SDF apart was the emphasis on music and romance. Mecha before like Gundam merely brushed romance off as something off a checklist that can be started and resolved in a mere couple of episodes. Macross' entire plot was the romance. It was all about Hikaru and how he so desperately wanted to be with Minmay to the point where he'd give his life for her.

>>15213768
>Macross' entire plot was the romance.
Found the retard

>>15213759
See >>15211996
Frontier had heart. It had its sad moments and heartwarming moments. Heck, this is probably better than what SDF gave us because Hikaru went on to date his girls at the same fucking time.

>>15213773
Holy shit, it's like these people have never seen the original.

>>15213734
>What sets SDF apart from Frontier was that it felt less of a byproduct of cooperate heads to appeal to different demos than what was essentially a product made by real robot nerds
I thought even the most delusional idiots here agreed that it was just yet another glorified toy commercial.

>>15213773
Except that's that literally what director said. Lurk more.

>>15213782
>Except that's that literally what director said.
Clarification: he said that romance and triangle is what made SDF original.

>>15213775
>Frontier had heart
Nope it was just a shameless product meant to appeal to every demographic no different from SEED. It did a good job of fooling retards like you that there was some emotion into it but taken into it as a whole its incredibly shallow.
> Heck, this is probably better than what SDF gave us because Hikaru went on to date his girls at the same fucking time.
Hell no, the thing about Hikaru was that he was a sexist twat that went after a girl he only just met without knowing anything about her in any traditional story he would have realized why he fell in love with her to begin with the more he got to know her but in a change of events he grew apart from her and realized the person he loved was someone he initially shared nothing in common with. In Frontier Alto is an asexual with no sort of drive sexual or otherwise, he's a blank state because a character with any sort of distinguishing personality is not needed in this day and age and the ultimate conclusion to the romance plot is him not choosing anyone but one of the girls choosing him as their trophy husband because Frontier was essentially the Sheryl show with Alto being her award for winning over space cancer so no lesson learned, no character growth, no heart, just shit.

>>15213782
>>15213779
>NO U

Great argument

>>15211996
I remember expecting something like this fron Delta and being absolutely mind blown by how they never took this opportunity. Freyja had life threatening skin cancer and they didn't even bother to let Hayate react to this. Its just like that shit with the music buffs and var mix. No actual resolution, just a big fucking asspull.

>>15213803
>I remember expecting something like this fron Delta and being absolutely mind blown by how they never took this opportunity.
Coodles for it for having some dignity. That scene was cringey

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>>15213728
>For example it actually started the whole boom of idol anime.

That's a bold statement.

Pop idols have always been a thing in Japan before anybody who posts on /m/ were ever born. Anime focused on pop idols have been around since at least the '90s which some high-profile ones releasing in the early-2000s when the anime production industry as whole experienced a boom. If there ever was a "boom" for pop idol anime, it's probably more attributed to the success of the iDOLM@STER videogame series that started in 2005 (later made into a show in 2011). The popularity of the Hatsune Miku mascot of the Vocaloid application also predates Macross F. If there really was a significant surge of in the popularity of pop idols, Frontier didn't start it, but rather just opportunistically riding the wave from something else.

>>15213795
>Nope it was just a shameless product meant to appeal to every demographic no different from SEED
Congratualtions retard, you just described SDF.
>and realized the person he loved was someone he initially shared nothing in common with
Except that's already been done before, what made it a big deal is that this was a mecha show that bothered to focus on romance.
>In Frontier Alto is an asexual with no sort of drive sexual or otherwise
Now I know you haven't seen Frontier. Alto joined SMS specifically to protect Ranka after hearing about what the Vajra had done to her family. As the show progresses, he and Ranka are separated by their respective careers and Alto becomes closer with Sheryl. It's just like the original.
>the ultimate conclusion to the romance plot is him not choosing anyone but one of the girls choosing him
But Hikaru didn't make his choice either. He spent the night with Minmay only for him to run to Misa immediately afterwards and it would have continued on and on if Minmay didn't flat out give up.

>>15213825
>Congratualtions retard, you just described SDF.
Nope. Hell the only pandering element was Lynn everything else was just a byproduct of it own era
>>15213825
>Except that's already been done before,
Wrong again retard
>what made it a big deal is that this was a mecha show that bothered to focus on romance.
This isn't true either
>Alto joined SMS specifically to protect Ranka
>for Ranka
And behold you just proved my point retard. His entire motivation is sprung by the string of another female character than his own hence why I said he has not fucking drive and is just anything the plot demands him to be including something as retarded as a male geisha because they have to pander to trapfags on top of it.
> As the show progresses, he and Ranka are separated by their respective careers and Alto becomes closer with Sheryl. It's just like the original.
This never happens.
>But Hikaru didn't make his choice either.
So you admit you haven't seen the original? Gotcha.

>>15213830
>Nope. Hell the only pandering element was Lynn everything else was just a byproduct of it own era
Right, the female giants with skin tight suits were clearly not pandering. Whatever, you just admitted Minmay was panderig to us so that's all I needed from you.
>This isn't true either
Name a show before SDF that proves this.
>His entire motivation is sprung by the string of another female character than his own hence
So, like Hikaru then? Minmay was his motivation for nearly the entire series.
>This never happens
Proving once again you haven't seen Frontier.
>So you admit you haven't seen the original? Gotcha.
Seems like you only saw DYRL. He made the choice there. Not in SDF.

>>15213830
>Hell the only pandering element was Lynn
And who was Lynn pandering to, retard? To girls? They never were target audience of this kind of anime at that time and no one even tried to pander to them. Instead the whole SDF is huge pandering to kids and teens who were buying toys. You don't know anything about those times or anime history, retard.

>This isn't true either
I'm sure you can name another mecha that came before SDF and had big focus on romance and love triangle, right? It should be so easy for you. Protip: don't even try naming 0079 or you will be laughed off.

>>15213795

> the ultimate conclusion to the romance plot is him not choosing anyone but one of the girls choosing him as their trophy husband

Most of what you wrote is wrong, but are you just blind that you think >>15211996 is somehow Sherly choosing Alto? Or does him telling her he'll stay with her somehow not count as him choosing her in your head?

>>15214257
>Most of what you wrote is wrong
Nope all right,
>but are you just blind that you think >>15211996 is somehow Sherly choosing Alto?
Whelp ya know the fact that he chooses no one in the end is proof enough and the very fact that you're putting emphasis on a scene that happens episodes before it is proof enough that the writers had no idea what they were doing.

>>15213844
>Name a show before SDF that proves this.
Daimos

>>15213844
>Right, the female giants with skin tight suits were clearly not pandering.
Not really but continue to scrap to the bottom of the barrel if you think that's the equivalent of a giant women turning into a moe girl because "reasons"
>>15213844
>Name a show before SDF that proves this.
Daimos
>So, like Hikaru then?
No because he actively wans to get into Lynn's pants, that's a drive towards the character. Alto just wants to protect Ranka because plot.
>NO U
Once again, great argument
>>15213849
>They never were target audience of this kind of anime at that time and no one even tried to pander to them.
Cool horseshit bro

>>15214265

> it only counts if it's in the final episode

Wow. He very obviously did choose and it's right there in that scene, with them dating after that point, and he didn't need to clarify further given that he'd already chosen. I presume you take the "you are both my wings" line as about love and not friendship, despite Ranka having been talking about friendship in front of Alto only a few seconds before hand?

>>15214290
>ALL DAT HEADCANON

>>15214290
>despite Ranka having been talking about friendship in front of Alto only a few seconds before hand?
>I won't lose to you Sheryl-san

Yeah that was clearly meant as a deceleration of not losing her friendship to Alto

>>15214283
>>They never were target audience of this kind of anime at that time and no one even tried to pander to them.
>Cool horseshit bro
How new are you? Seriously, lurk fucking more. Back then girls had completely separate girly anime you probably have never even heard about. Absolutely everything (toys, anime and later games) was advertised separately for boys and girls until the very late 80s if not early 90s both in the West and in Japan. Were you born in 90s or something? It shows.
And you must be completely retarded newfag to believe that makers of SDF tried to pander to female audience with Kaifun.

>>15214327
>I was watching SDF on TV while it was airing so I'm an expert on this really

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>>15214327

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>>15214327
>And you must be completely retarded newfag to believe that makers of SDF tried to pander to female audience with Kaifun.
Yeah man! Guys really loved the Jenius!

>>15214342
No, I watched it much later. But I still was born in early 80s and I do remember how cartoons and merchandise worked back then. You just proved to be complete and retarded newfag.

>>15214346
Yes, imbecile. He was considered to be extremely cool character by boys.

>>15214270
Since when did Daimos have love triangle? And it's romance is extremely straight-forward and shallow, working only as plot device.

>>15214354
focus on romance was what I responded to, not the guy demanding a triangle

>>15214357
Word romance should be replaced with melodrama to separate SDF from other anime. Because while Daimos had typical "we can't be together because of war between our races" it never had melodramatic feeling. Though I'm not 100% sure since I never finished Daimos and it was long time ago.

>>15214367
then go make up whatever shit you want if you can't handle your questioned answered

>>15214368
You're pretty angry considering I'm the guy who was explicitly asking for triangle and not >>15213844.

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Ok, super difficult question. What song is Basara playing to Sivil trying to wake her up, in the forest? The feelingsy one. It's not "try again", is it?

>>15214399
powah to za dream

>>15214415
No, that was later, I think. I'm talking about the first few times. It's played with acoustic guitar, and very heartfelt.

>>15214421
>acoustic guitar
I guess it's my soul for you? I have only watched 7 once several years ago, can't remember it that clearly

>>15199723
I think I'm the only one that didn't mind planet dance playing thousand times. I actually really like the song.
But real answer is: YOU DIDN'T LISTEN TO HIS SONG ANON.

>>15200079
You know there is a macross 7 special with the Frontier cast, right? It's FB7 or something.

>>15192249
Macross Delta episode threads here and on /a/ were just waifufagging and not a lot of plot discussion and mech apreciation.
It seems that over the time the waifufags flooded here from /a/ and brought the cancer with them. even Patlabor threads aren't nice anymore.

>>15214399
Submarine street? Remember 16?

>>15214503
Yeah, could be. Eh, I'll just download it again and google the lyrics.
>>15214511
Oh, by now I love all of them. I think it's kind of meta too, how the band is small and everyone thinks they're bad and they have only one song, but with time they become more famous, have much more awesome songs and people love them.
I don't even hate planet dance now, kinda like it, even. But that harmonica part is still terrible.

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>>15214511
Yep, it's submarine street. Thanks. Have a rare Sivil.

>>15214511
>Macross Delta episode threads here and on /a/ were just waifufagging and not a lot of plot discussion and mech apreciation.
Exactly the same as when Frontier was airing. /m/ was significantly less toxic about shipping wars and waifu posting.
So I'm not sure what you're complaining about. Delta threads here were nice and fun until the second half.

>>15214540
Submarine street is my favorite Fire Bomber song. It's a ballad, but still incredibly powerful due to Fukuyama's voice and good lyrics.

>>15214551
I gave up all Delta threads here and on /a/ pretty soon (except a few episodes in the end that I wanted to know what everybody was thinking of all that flashback stuff).
Waifuposting was terrible, it was a "x is best girl", "no y is best girl" wars.
Even if this thread is full of shitposting and heated discussion, at least it's about the plot. It seems people can't accept that we naturally have different opinions (and different waifus)

>>15214597
You can't discuss plot 5 episodes in because there is not much plot to discuss yet. Simple as that.

There was enough plot discussion later. For example nuns vs windies discussion was sometimes reaching fed vs zeon level of autism. The main problem was that at some point plot just stopped developing so people didn't have anything to discuss again.

>>15214597
>incredibly powerful
I know, right? 7 is so good in no small part to how powerful and inspirational the music is. If I was younger, I'd probably drop everything and try to learn how to play guitar.

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>>15214302

What part is headcanon exactly? The part where they're dating? Well, Alto is even teased about in universe.

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>>15214645

Or is it that they go on dates that's headcanon?

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>>15214648

By the way, Alto re-iterates that he intends to stay with Sheryl on that same date.

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>>15214306

You mean the thing she says over 10 minutes later than the wings line, in a completely different context and when Alto isn't even with them? Yea, that sure is a few seconds before hand. Ranka doesn't want to give up, but what does that matter when Alto has clearly already made a decision and never wavers from it?

Here's the actual scene by the way, with Ranka talking about how she and Sheryl lift each other, before Alto says they both lift him and should support each other. Or do you think Ranka is bi for Sheryl in show too?

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>>15214648
>>15214652
Sheryl is so gorgeous. Clearly a western-type popstar to complement Ranka's cutesy eastern-type.

People who dislike Frontier probably like 7. That alone discredits them.

>>15214302
Kawamori outright stated that "You are both my wings" wasn't about love. Though from Ranka's challenge she may not have understood that.

>>15211878
>Yeah you weren't here at all. People hated that faggot Luca, people didn't like Grace, Brera or Leon the rest of the characters were so bland and forgettable that they didn't even registered the only character that was universally liked here was Ozma.
You mean how people hated Luca because he was a shota, or Grace because she was evil, Brera because he was shared a voice with Jesus Yamato and his attitude irked people, Leon because he was tool written to be hated.

>People hated how there was nothing to his character whatsoever and how he was the most boring lead in the franchise.
You mean the same people who never paid attention and claimed that Alto was "wishy washy" despite him actually being honest about himself in words and actions.

>People didn't like her character as a whole
People used to like Ranka up until mid-way when her attitude and lack of initiative began to irk people. And Sheryl revealed that she was 1000x superior.

>There's literally nothing to her but her stupid gimmick to begin with.
proving my point.

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>>15214511
> FB7 or something
Watching it makes me long for proper BD release of 7. Everything is so crisp and clean, if you don't pay attention to the horrible chromatic aberration. And it's cropped to fit 16:9, which is not a plus. >>15198986

>>15211878
Were you here after Delta ended. People started kissing Frontier's ass afterwards.

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>>15215202
No cropping or chromatic aberration on the one I downloaded, what shitty rip did you get?

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>>15215297
Well, a shitty one.
CA and cropping are only on the FB7 movie though.

>>15215213
People expected Delta would be better than Frontier and dogged on it while setting their expectations for Delta pretty high. But /m/'s reaction to Frontier was their usual reaction to any new mecha series.

>>15215304
Of course it's cropped, how else would they integrate 7 footage with modern Frontier animation? The CA looks like shit though on the other hand.
>>15215213
Even on shit taste central /m/ tons of people loved Frontier before the steaming turd that was Delta.

>>15215310

I didn't even need it to be better than Frontier. Just about as good.

And for a little while, it was. But the last half was just a groan fest.

>>15215522
A lot of the problems that you had with Delta were likely there from the start, it's just that the latter half made those problems more apparent.

>>15215592

Sure, in that most of the major problems with Delta were that almost none of it mattered and character arcs/plot threads went nowhere. By definition that's not as big a deal at the start as it is at the end, because you don't know there isn't a payoff until the time for payoff has come and gone.

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>>15214663
>Or do you think Ranka is bi for Sheryl
Isn't everyone?

>>15215522
>I didn't even need it to be better than Frontier. Just about as good.
It would still be shit

I really do find it quite funny when Frontier fans deny the show being a cheap cashgrab sequel while also pointing all the rehashed plot points it has from SDF. That's not staying true to the classic formula, that's just being really lazy with the story writing. Just like how it is with SEED and TFA.

>>15216495
Oh, it is a rehash of old ideas and plot. But, again, its execution was greater than sum of its parts - i also builded on older shows lore, expanded the universe. And action was great.
I hate to write it but tropes aren't bad thing. What you do with them matters. Just like Delta screwed itself after 13. episode, being example on how you don't do it correctly, Frontier did slow down close to the end but then final confrontation came and it was glorious. Clusterfuck but glorious. And then Kawamori gave us movies on top of that. This is a cashgrab exectuted properly.

>>15216495
You can't possibly be this retarded. A fucking rehash? You guys are saying this now?

>>15216495
But SEED and TFA were both decent rehashes. Originality isn't everything. Look at the prequels, they're god awful.

>>15216495
Sometimes I think that 0079 and SEED are the only 2 gundams people watched here. Almost every single TV gundam ""rehashes"" old gundam formulas except for few exceptions like for example G or Turn A. It's just what every story that tries to be a part of a single universe/franchise does. Same for Frontier ‒ as part of Macross universe it uses few major elements from previous series. Yet in terms or plot, characters, music and motives it still can stand on its own.

>>15216818
>Almost every single TV gundam ""rehashes"" old gundam formulas
Found the retard

>>15216818
>Almost every single TV gundam ""rehashes"" old gundam formulas
Not really. Zeta, ZZ, an Victory are all different from 0079. You're confusing formula with rehash you can't call a Gundam series a rehash just because it starts with the MC finding a Gundam in the first episode. SEED and AGE are intentional rehashes because they wanted to re-introduce the franchise to a new audience while having things for returning fans much like TFA. Frontier is just creatively bankrupt.

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>>15216626
>This entire post

Can people honestly say the other Macross shows were better than Frontier though? Plus, 7, and especially Zero all failed miserably at standing on their own. Frontier got more hits when it came to being true to the classic formula.

>>15210506
> recently announced new Macross
We know absolutely nothing about it, right?

>>15216819
You finally looked in the mirror? Next time I'll add even more Quotation mark for idiots like you.

>>15216827
>you can't call a Gundam series a rehash just because it starts with the MC finding a Gundam in the first episode
Wasn't that the point of my post? Frontier reuses some elements and formulas of SDF, but it doesn't copy its plot, motives or characters (inb4 SDF Minmay vs DYRL Minmay crap again).
I don't want to touch SEED anymore because this thread already has enough autism.

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Started watching Delta and it does look very promising. And plane designs are absolute sex. Thanks to you I know it supposedly nosedives into shit later, hope watching it with GG subs will save my watching experience a bit.

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Oh, bad guys are russians. Of course.

>>15216830
That sold very well.
>>15217543

Wait until you see some legacy tech from Seven times.
>>15217657
If anything, of old Empire, from before revolution, yes.

>>15191845
I thought Frontier was ... okay? It would have benefited a lot from a more condensed format and less school bullshit.

>>15218200
Yeah that single school episode was far too much.

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>>15218200
>It would have benefited a lot from a more condensed format and less school bullshit.

Watch the movies.

>>15218469
I already did. I think some stuff doesn't make sense if you only watch the films, with no prior knowledge of the TV series.

>>15218385
The school brought useless and irrelevant characters and like this >>15207404.

>>15218469
>Watch the movies.
All the movies does is confirm how very little plot Frontier has and don't make much sense without prior knowledge of the TV series.

>>15218485
>>15218495
>prior knowledge of the TV series.

What do you really need to know from the TV show that has any bearing on the plot in the movies?

>>15216626

You do bring up some fair points there, but in my mind it just kills any re-watch value when the original still holds up stupendously, and the few things that are new definitely stick out like a sore thumb. For instance, the cheap villain who wants instrumentality just because that's the "in" thing for generic 2000s villains. That really sucked the most for me, even moreso than the romcom style characters.

>>15218583
The original really doesn't hold up that well though, especially conpared to Frontier. Hikaru and Minmay were both unrealistically idiotic. Especially Minmay, what kind of bitch dreams about getting married but doesn't look at the ONE boy she's friends with? Then there are several asspulls like Max and Milia's entire relationship, inconsistent animation and character design that's glaring even for an 80s show, subplot rivalries that go nowhere, and for god's sake the entire third of the show is incredibly tedious. Frontier just does some things better than the original as well as the other Macross shows and OVAs.

>>15191845
>Is Delta and 7 really worth watching?
Delta? Yes it is worth watching only if you replace MC (forgot his name) with Messer. What happens when the main character (Messer) dies? The series end.

Don't go past Messer death. Oh, just told you a spoiler.

>>15218743
>The original really doesn't hold up that well though, especially conpared to Frontier.
This is almost as stupid as people who say 0079 doesn't hold up to SEED

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>>15218743
>Hikaru and Minmay were both unrealistically idiotic

And I find it unrealistically idiotic that anyone would have horrible enough taste to favor a generic, flavor of the month anime with only the most superficial qualities of original over a genuine, classic space opera but here we are.

>>15218495
>All the movies does is confirm how very little plot Frontier has
Movies cut shitton of things. Like for example the completely removed Leon subplot turning him from one of the main villains into irrelevant background character. Alto's kabuki ark and all related development is gone too.
>don't make much sense without prior knowledge of the TV series.
It contradicts your previous statement.

>>15219106
>Like for example the completely removed Leon subplot turning him from one of the main villains into irrelevant background character
So no change whatsoever
> Alto's kabuki ark and all related development is gone too.
\What arc? It amounted to fucking nothing in the TV series and only existed to explain the Alto-hime jokes.
>It contradicts your previous statement.
Actually it doesn't. Try again retard.

>>15218921
Frontier is hardly flavor of the month if its still one of the few Macross shows that still gets heated debates nearly a decade after its airing.

>>15218851
But 0079 does still hold up even with its flaws because it's actually great. Macross is good but it's always pandered to audiences and /m/ pretends like Frontier did it first.

>>15219125
>So no change whatsoever
>removing one of the villains has no impact on plot
Who is retarded here?

>It amounted to fucking nothing in the TV series
It was all about his own decisions. His arc was fully resolved in the TV series. It's like you haven't watched Frontier TV at all.

>Actually it doesn't.
If TV had almost no plot then why would you need it to understand movies, retard? Do kids study logic at school these days? Next time try finishing that course of logic before posting in this thread again.

>>15218851
SEED is a different case entirely but to be fair it does do some things better than 0079. Romance is a good example and even if you didn't like SEED's romance, 0079 (and nearly every other UC Gundam) fails so badly at it that it doesn't even matter.

7 has the best "feelgood" music, F has more technically impressive music and better visuals.

I enjoyed both more than Delta or the original SDF Macross.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-CAlIn0-nQ

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>>15218485
Shut up, you. Nana is love. And she's not useless, she's the love interest for shota, and only because of her he gets involved in quartz WMD development. So she even has a real effect on the plot. Don't you dare say she's useless and irrelevant.

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What? We're doing this again?

>>15219645
FOLD CRYSTALS SON

>>15219299
>Romance is a good example
Stopped reading there

>>15219299
>SEED is a different case entirely
Not at all
>Romance
Fucking really? You're going tocite SEED's trite poorly developed romance as better in comparison?
> 0079 (and nearly every other UC Gundam) fails so badly at it that it doesn't even matter.
I see you've never watched a single Gundam anime

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It actually wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. I'd say it's good up to ep ~18, when protag girl and boy go berserk and purple-haired one blows up the ruins. The plot becomes too muddled and they have two huge infodump episodes in a row, and the enjoyment, along with everything else, just stops.
Loved the look of the world. Especially space german-russians. Mechs, architecture, landscapes, clothing, everything was incredibly beautiful. Designers should get a medal for their work.
And windmerians should've been the protags. They actually had a tragic backstory and compelling cause so I sympathized with them a lot more. Was like, "get out of here, rainbow-colored girls, and take your trash pop songs with you!" Maybe it's my liberator blood talking.
It was ok, it was perfectly fine. Guess it's not that bad if you go in with very low expectations.
Oh, also, it had too much AKB0048 in my Macross.

>>15219711
>They actually had a tragic backstory and compelling cause so I sympathized with them a lot more.
Thanks fucking god you weren't here when Delta was airing. I definitely didn't want to see yet another stupid wind sympathizer.

>>15219785
They were portrayed as very sympathetic. Nothing wrong with siding with them.

>>15219799

Not him, but I'd imagine the problem was that they were too sympathetic in a way, given that even putting aside they were the supposed antagonists they were still using mind control to take over entire planets and only one of them even seemed to give pause to the thought it might be a less than nice thing, something he decided was unimportant and went on anyway. The show didn't seem to want to make them bad or wrong on any level. Which is weird in a franchise where even the protagonists' faction (the UN/NUNs) have always been potrayed as at least a little shitty.

>>15219682
>I see you've never watched a single Gundam anime
You're going to say with a straight face that UC Gundam has better romance or even decent romance altogether? Really?

>>15219682
Well it doesn't really matter what you think
>even if you didn't like SEED's romance, 0079 (and nearly every other UC Gundam) fails so badly at it that it doesn't even matter
UC Gundam romantic couples can only be categorized in two ways, halfassed or underwritten. Even Bright/Mirai, which I thought was closest to acceptable, ends up being bad by the baffling choice to make Bright into a cuck.

>>15191845
Delta is better

>>15219106
>Like for example the completely removed Leon subplot turning him from one of the main villains into irrelevant background character. Alto's kabuki ark and all related development is gone too.

These didn't really matter. They have no bearing on what actually happens in the movies.

You're basically just complaining that the movies have less sub-plots that aren't relevant.

>>15219125
>So no change whatsoever
Didn't Leon's result in the president's assassination plot and kick off the entire second half?

>What arc? It amounted to fucking nothing in the TV series and only existed to explain the Alto-hime jokes.
Wasn't Alto pressured by his family to return to the stage as a Kabuki actor? Hell isn't he also questioned why he didn't want to return to the stage, resulting in him over compensating and then taking up the role as Ranka's protector? I distinctly remember Alto's brother bringing it up. As well as Alto playing a role being brought up multiple times.

>>15221409
Not that anon, but they mattered to the TV series which is why the movies didn't really replace them so much as they just changed them.

The Leon subplot is still there and it's the reason why Sheryl ends up in jail and they have to go save her, and Alto's kabuki subplot is also still there as it's the reason why Sheryl and Alto even know one another and also the reason why the movies focus in more on Alto's problems with his masculinity.

>>15219889
> Not him, but I'd imagine the problem was that they were too sympathetic in a way

This. A big problem with Delta is that the Windies are simply given too many cards.

The windies are super awesome and best at everything! Except they have this super tragic short life span so feel bad about them.

They have this knight aesthetic and honor code, that somehow doesn't cover just straight up mind controlling your enemy and sending them to die for you against their will without risking anything yourself.

They get plot powers and coupons literally just handed to them over and over again throughout the show. They have a magic barrier that prevents the NUNS from attacking their planet directly. They get not one but two different mind control superweapons. They get a secret protoculture battleship, which doesn't even make sense because the Zentradi fleet already ARE the protoculture battleships. And it has pinpoint barriers which the protoculture NEVER INVENTED.

Their plan is to unlock and use some ancient protoculture ruins to boost their mind control that don't seem to do anything else. What they do is just too specific and they seem to exist for no other reason than to give windemere an arbitrary power boost.

Except its not arbitrary, because the final control system requires you to plug in runes to use it. And they FOUND IT LIKE THAT. So that means the protoculture literally built a giant, galaxy spanning mind control weapon and DIDN'T USE IT TO SAVE THEMSELVES FROM EXTINCTION, but instead built it in such a way that it can literally ONLY be used by a Windemeren.

So the whole 'Windemere is the chosen people of the protoculture, destined to rule the galaxy' isn't even just nationalist propaganda. The only way that the final episode makes any sense is if all of the shit Windemere has been saying is literally true.

And in the end they get no comeuppence. The writers retconned the entire universe so that Windemere did nothing wrong.

>>15224285
>but they mattered to the TV series
Not really hence whythey were so easy to remove
>which is why the movies didn't really replace them so much as they just changed them.
Nao literally does not exist in the movies and Leon being relegated to background doesn't change the plot either, Really Frontier is the inverse of Delta it which while the latter had too much happening for its run time the former had far too little, can't really see how the fuck they were going to make Delta 13 episodes with everything they had going on it would have been disappointing regardless.

>>15222550
>Didn't Leon's result in the president's assassination plot and kick off the entire second half?
Which didn't really amount to nothing much like everything on the Frontier side of the conflict was entirely white noise. The crux of the story came about with SMS separating from Frontier which had nothing to do with Leon's subplot at all. The movie removes this and it doesn't change the plot whatsoever
>stuff
Yeah...most of that shit also doesn't matter because Alto's characterization is the equivalent of a carton of milk.

>>15224962
>>15225029
Ah, the power of generalization and simplification. The whole Frontier was only about colony ship meeting space bugs and when befriending them with the power of songs. Even 2 movies were too much, I could easily fit everything into 5 minute long animation short and it wouldn't change plot whatsoever.
This is probably why rebuilds are so much better than original NGE. All those repetitive weekly angel attacks were completely pointless and that's why Anno just cut them out without affecting plot whatsoever. Literally the only difference is that Anno stopped third impact at the end of the second movie so he could make his cashgarb 3.33 fanfiction.

>>15225128
Hasn't Macross always have this fucking problem? Like the inverse of Gundam it can't really work all that well if you drag it out for long. 7 took 20 some episodes to get its plot rolling, Frontier doesn't really have much to say of a plot and Delta tried to do too much for its allotted time. I guess this is the reason why so many people wank off to DYRL and Plus so much because they were spectacles and knew that and didn't overstay its welcome.

>>15225029
>Which didn't really amount to nothing much like everything on the Frontier side of the conflict was entirely white noise. The crux of the story came about with SMS separating from Frontier which had nothing to do with Leon's subplot at all. The movie removes this and it doesn't change the plot whatsoever
Anon, didn't that plot cause Frontier to come across Galaxy for the final battle and allow Grace's cohorts to take over the Vajra Queen in both the movies and the TV series? SMS was only there to call in for backup and stop them, but in terms of acting to the plot they didn't do anything besides confirm that Sheryl was Mao's granddaughter in the TV series and get hired by Sheryl and then get informed by Ranka of Leon and Galaxy's plan in the movies. They're good guys but SMS doesn't do much plot relevant shit besides save the day at the end.

>Yeah...most of that shit also doesn't matter because Alto's characterization is the equivalent of a carton of milk.
He still had characterization though, you may not like it but it was still there.

>>15225199
I think anon's point went right over your head anon.

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2018 anime is going to be a movie or S2 of delta, right? It has to be, right? So many lose ends.
But those delta songs are so catchy, can't get enough of that sax and trumpet.

>>15228654
The Ride adaptation. Let it be The Ride adaptation.

>>15228654

They didn't announce it as being Delta related despite being a Delta concert, so I doubt it.

My problem with Frontier is that Alto is a really, really boring main character.

... No, wait, my REAL problem with Frontier it's that it's been spammed so fucking much in SRW that I now hate the series and everything it stands for.

And stop remixing fucking Aimo, for fucks' sake

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>>15191995
I never understood why everyone insisted Alto should go back to being a crossdresser.

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>>15219711

>>15191845
Frontier starts off with a really good first episode, in fact I think it's one of the best moments in the franchise as a whole. But from their it gets progressively worse and worse with boring one dimensional villains, a love triangle that goes nowhere unless you're an extremely delusional waifu fag, and bland characters. Klan and Michael are great, they have an interesting dynamic and bounce off each other really well. Klan's loli mode is stupid and just there to pander, but other than that her character arc is great.
I bring this up because in contrast the main trio is boring. Alto has some shit going on with his dad, with his feminine looks, but all that amount to two scenes. Other than those small aspects he's a completely blank slate for the audience to project onto. Ranka is even worse because she's one of these 'perfect' characters. She's a talented up and coming idol with no flaws. But even with as little character as she gets, by the end Ranka is literally a plot device with green hair.
Sheryl is the only one to go through a character arc of the three, or have any character at all. But her progression from "Kinda a Bitch" to "Less of a Bitch" is predictable from the first scene that she's in. She has to deal with Ranka upstaging a replacing her, which is actually interesting and could have really shown how fickle idol culture can be. But of course this is Frontier, where idols are fetishized to the point of become wizards. In SDF the point wasn't 'idols are the best', it was about culture not music specifically. But Frontier fucks this up and just turns it into a magic power that lets you win, granted Seven is to blame for being the first magic music entry but Frontier didn't have to continue the trend. At the end of SDF you see the downside to living the idol life and Minmay gets the shit end of the stick. It's more interesting because we get to see the drawbacks. When Frontier has the chance to do this with Sheryl, it ultimately fumbles.

>>15192258
Delta should have been 18 episodes tops, it really does drag and if it was 13+ a movie it would be more forgivable because 2 hours would trim so much of the fat, hell a 2+2 movie would be great because you could tell a story and the power up mode would be a one off, 2 off thing that is still cool.

>>15228974
Because he looks good in a dress.

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>>15228995
Uta wa heiki ja nai!

>>15228996
>Ranka is even worse because she's one of these 'perfect' characters. She's a talented up and coming idol with no flaws.
Even completely blind person would never call Ranka perfect and having no flaws. Because that's complete opposite of what she was and what authors tried to portray. Her character screams with naivety, immaturity and annoying childish stubbornness. You don't even need to watch the whole show and follow her development because that's how she is presented from the very first episode.
Of course Frontier characters are flat for you. It's because you're complete retard who should stick to watching Sunday morning cartoons.

>>15230549
>Because that's complete opposite of what she was and what authors tried to portray
To bad the authors didn't do so at all. I mean you're defending the same writer as Guilty Crown that's essentially how low you've sunk.

>>15228527
Nah it just works so incredibly well with Frontier.
>>15228955
>... No, wait, my REAL problem with Frontier it's that it's been spammed so fucking much in SRW
That's why I'm so excited for Delta to be in an SRW because there is so much you can do with it unlike Frontier which by the time Z3 and BX came by it was literally just there.

>>15228996

The end of SDF didn't portray the downside of living the idol life, since the problem wasn't the idol lifestyle; it was that Minmay was working with a physically abusive hypocrite. Minmay had no problem singing, it was being beaten because her singing was no longer lucrative that was an issue. And that was mostly because Kaifun was an asshole and Earth was a wasteland where most people had no real resources, not because idols were shitty in any way. And once she ditched Kaifun her life immediately improved dramatically, because again, he was the problem, not idols.

>>15230568
>Too bad the authors didn't do so at all.
You're literally the first person I have seen since Frontier aired who unironically think that Ranka has no flaws. And when talking about Ranka almost everyone points out her being a spoiled child.

>I mean you're defending the same writer as Guilty Crown that's essentially how low you've sunk.
Nice ``argument''. Except Kawamori is the one who came up with Frontier characters, retard.

>>15228654
Could be the ZZ of Macross. Hayate gets BTFO because they realized how incompetent he is. New MC replaces him and we'll get to see Lady M and learn more about Megaroad-01. Also Mikumo is a love interest. Can't forget about such a fantastic specimen.

>>15228996
Ranka has plenty of flaws, she's an naive, immature little girl whose also short-sighted and irresponsible. In fact the Frontier fleet would have been able to avoid a lot of bullshit if she had just told her brother Ozma what she knew about the Vajra and stopped focusing on trying to win Alto's heart. The fact that her childishness made Alto reluctant to see her as anything but a little sister, and was also the reason why he would have killed her if Sheryl didn't beg him not to.

>>15230586
>That's why I'm so excited for Delta to be in an SRW because there is so much you can do with it unlike Frontier which by the time Z3 and BX came by it was literally just there.
That's pretty much just because Frontier is a complete story unlike Delta.

>>15230648
>>15230568
>And when talking about Ranka almost everyone points out her being a spoiled child.
Wasn't the fact that Ranka was a spoiled brat something that Michael pointed out?