First time as OP here, I hope this doesn't come across too

File: Imperial_Titans_and_Space_Wolves_on_Betalis_III.png (1MB, 851x597px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 851x597px

40k is somewhat-popular thing in the US (i know it's from the UK, don't get on me about that), but it's very far from having its 'Titans' as a primary thing you'll see in most or even half the fiction and games set in the universe.

File: megas.jpg (50KB, 440x640px) Image search: [Google]

50KB, 440x640px

Still OP here (last post was also me, just trying to establish the thread). This show was pretty awesome, but flopped and only ran one year.

File: Untitled.jpg (110KB, 871x609px) Image search: [Google]

110KB, 871x609px

>>15094849
because they got grounded by realism

just admit it

>>15094871
so Americans are just that obsessed with realism? I don't see how anything but the hardest of hard-SF can take off, then. I get the feeling that Americans just generally don't like sci-fi. It's always been a very fringe thing here.

>>15094871
i'm not talking about high-flying insane Gundam-flavored stuff, i mean any and all giant robots. Battletech is a thing, but it's still very fringe, and mostly concerned with games. Will there ever be an American sci-fi series prominently featuring giant robots of any description that doesn't fail miserably?

>>15094893
they just don;t fiction in general

try to read the comments

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4b-haPATmI

>>15094849
Different demographics and different overall culture.
Plus there's barely any sort of presence or market push for giant robots. Right now Hollywood suits are more interested in squeezing out every last dollar they can with their super hero movies. I think that as people grow exhausted of comic book movies, there will be a shift in content interests in movies, games, tv shows, toys, ect. Maybe we'll get more robot material then, but it's anyone's guess as to what western mass media will do.

File: gypsie danger.jpg (229KB, 1873x1056px) Image search: [Google]

229KB, 1873x1056px

Pacific Rim was another attempt at giant mecha that Americans hated. Is it a question of not being able to suspend disbelief? Are Americans unable to like sci-fi because the technology wouldn't work?

>>15094901
I'm just wondering if there's something about giant robots in particular that makes the American audience say 'no'.

>>15094900
blocked in my country
goddamn youtube

>>15094901
I'm thinking the next sci-fi anything after comic books will be endless rehashes of older series. America is not fond of new stories.

>>15094900
I think you're right; America's favorite movie tagline is 'based on a true story'. It's very infertile ground for original fiction when everyone would much rather sit through hours of bullshit just barely-inspired by some autobiography.

Why do Americans hate sci-fi? Are we still hung up on the idea of only social outcasts liking it? Or is it just that we can't stand to make a movie that isn't based on another movie, book, or television series?

File: avengers.jpg (368KB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

368KB, 1920x1080px

>>15094871
if realism is so important, how did this bullshit get so popular?

>>15094939
The Martian was hailled as the best movie of the year and most people like the new Star Wars. It seems that when a story can't decide whether or not it's science fiction or science fantasy people tend to get prissy.

Take the star wars prequel trilogy. Everybody hated the very idea of midichlorians. Believing in the force was the bar for entrance into the series and nobody wanted or needed any further explanation.

>>15094854
It's not that it flopped, it just ran at odds with network execs who basically set it up for failure and didn't want it to continue because they were convinced it was shit. They gave it crummy timeslots, little advertisements, and didn't air several episodes more than once. Part of its underground fan base came from people seeing several episodes for the first time when they randomly aired episodes 4-5 years later. Megas was hated by the MTV execs too who shat on the pilot, didn't pick it up, and mocked the creators.

That's basically the reason you don't see much western mecha. Execs are convinced it will be shit before it happens.

>>15094906
It wasn't hated in America, it just did better internationally.

>>15094995
It was on MTV?

>>15095004
It was originally pitched to MTV under the name LowBrow. The creative staff more or less all worked for MTV animation but had a massive falling out with them because they treated their animators like shit, cancelled their previous show downtown after one season, and shat all over the Megas pilot. Thats why I'm Megas they constantly make fun of MTV.

Also forgot to mention Megas had 2 seasons but the entire second season got the YuYu Hakusho treatment meaning it got moved to A HORRIBLE unwatchable time slot and every episode was aired only once.

>>15094871
Battletech is not realistic in the slightest, that the mechs go stomp instead of whoosh doesn't make mecha any less implausible, saying this as someone who likes both

>>15095017
So that's why that MTV building kept blowing up.

>>15094906
>Americans hated
What?

>>15095091
I don't think America "hated" it, but Pacific Rim underperformed at the American box office; the movie was saved by doing very well in China.

>>15094849
All of you got the answers wrong. It has nothing to do with like, dislike or realism.

It's because some Japanese authors created successful giant robot anime and manga for children and other authors just built on these foundations.

Had it not been for guys like Tezuka, Yokoyama, Ishinomori, Nagai, Tomino, Kawamori, nips wouldn't give a shit about the genre today.

It's all about cultural entertainment and not much to do with personal tastes. To say that only Americans like battletech-like robots is false, when you consider that battletech itself ripped designs off a bunch of Japanese mecha anime.

>>15094906
I didn't like pacific rim for one sole reason:

Two pilots for one mech.

File: tumblr_mvhrziGCO81st4zi8o1_500.jpg (45KB, 500x500px) Image search: [Google]

45KB, 500x500px

>>15095217
Your will and body are too weak to handle a Getter

>>15094849
US loved and still seems to love Voltron if the new Netflix series is any indication.
You have a Mazinger statue in Spain and a Zeek mech in Turkey.
Every sci-fi RTS ever has at least one mech in it, usually tons.

The only thing I could possibly think of is jealousy.
Japanese have lots of experience so their shit tends to look much better. It is also more realistic, more fun, better researched, better choreographed, etc.
Basically most of this comes down to sheer experience but the neglect of giant robots is a thing so finding a good designer for them is an absolutely different beast compared to the west.

>>15094849

Different cultures.

Japanese mecha are basically treated as being giant people in armor, often implying they have their own will and spirit independent of the pilot. The mechs are often treated as being characters in their own, and when they are not its probably because they are treated as an extension of the pilot, like the person inside is just wearing a surprisingly large iron man suit.

Western mecha treats the machine like what it is: a vehicle. Unless it specifically has an onboard AI, its not a character. Its just a tool.
And we are more likely to use other kinds of tools for that role instead that better fit our perceptions of vehicles, like space fighters or superplanes.

>>15095289
>better choreographed

At the heart of it, I think this is the problem. Western producers treat mechs like tanks with legs. In which case you're actually better off with a tank without legs. Eastern producers treat mechs as people who just happen to be really tall. And strong. And tough. And shoot lasers.

Actually, now that I think about it, mechs=superman.

>>15095379
>Eastern producers treat mechs as people who just happen to be really tall

That's an overgeneralization.
Look at most recent mecha. Whenever it features more "just a tall guy" aesthetic, the animators usually cite budgetary reasons as the main cause, saying that animating a big guy that happens to be a robot is much faster and easier than making a giant machine.

Gurren Lagann or Regalia, you can easily find examples when they are practically apologizing for what are pretty good looking shows.

When budget isn't an issue, they don't treat them as simple "metal pajamas", viz. modern Gundams like G-Reco, or older stuff like Big-O.
Those shows are still in stark comparison to the height of what a usual western production entails, which is two machines standing in place or slowly walking done in 3/4 perspective while making sounds.

>>15094945
Because the superhero genre has been with America ever since the 1930's.

>>15095525
It has also been laughed at, seen as ridiculous or stupid and belittled.

>Anon from /co/ buying a comic book.
>This other person with a Hulk t-shirt who knows anon goes by.
>Instantly starts banter about how comic books are for little kids without a shred of irony.

The concept of parroting is stronger than you might think.

>>15095094
i heard nothing about it but how garbage everyone thought it was. That's about the nicest thing I've ever read someone on the internet say about that movie.

>>15095315
you'd think the fighters and planes would eventually get old, though. i guess they really just don't ever want to try anything different, even if it's something that's been done before by others.

>>15094854
Everyone always praises this show but I've really never got the hype watched an episode or two back in the day and didn't really get the love.

I mean it was kinda fun but nothing to write home about.

>>15095585
It was really fun, IMO, because you could tell the guys behind it were very familiar with their /m/, including obscure stuff that most kids back then would recognize only if they were young /m/en too. Stuff like a Harlock expy showing up, Evil Coop piloting his version of the Sazabi, etc. At least back when I was young, it made me feel like Megas XLR was "my kind" of show.

>>15095585
it was just one of the three heavily mecha-focused things that aren't totally unheard-of and aren't from Japan that i could think of. It was alright; not great.

File: 1276387784042.jpg (316KB, 1920x1200px) Image search: [Google]

316KB, 1920x1200px

>>15094849
my take :
After WWII Japan came to glorify victory through technology, it explain their rise as god of informatics but what put them apart from other country is that they take technology as something that make a civilization better, tech>person
On the other hand American see their technology more as tools and if you think Samourai-mech are stupid, it pales in comparison of "GI Joe with his trusty gun/armor", the US glorify person>tech.

One thing of importance : EVERY MOVIE made by Hollywood and that have military vehicle are to be considered "propaganda for the US army", they can't get airfighter if they don't comply to that. It's important because conventional vehicle (Fighter ,Gunship, Tank, Transport) get upgraded as "badass American craftsmanship", everything that isn't (mech) is only as important as a Marine's gun and inferior to its pilot.

Last details : Japan accept AI more easily as benevolent spirit than the US who would see them as evil soulless automaton, even Terminator 2 or Glados are treated like that.

Other country also have keen interest in technology but it's rarely significant to discuss.

>>15095550
Don't get your movie opinions from /tv/

File: hero.jpg (942KB, 1382x2048px) Image search: [Google]

942KB, 1382x2048px

>>15094849
I think this movie here is a good reflection of how the United States and the west in general views mecha.

The west is much more scared of advancing technology than Japan is. Look at what we commonly cite as the very first science fiction work: Mary Shelley's Frankenstein, a novel about science going too far, as it were. Many of our most popular sci-fi works are about machines rebelling against man. 2001: A Space Odyssey, The Terminator and The Matrix, for example. Even the one anime I can think of where a mecha betrays its pilot (The Big O) is very clearly a westaboo show.

If it helps, you can also contrast this with things that are popular in the west and especially in America: superheroes, where the individual is directly empowered. Westerns, a romanticized view of a mostly natural and technology-free lifestyle. Supernatural creatures (zombies, vampires), presenting fantasy as an explanation for strange occurrences rather than science.

Of course, this is not to say that mecha are not popular or are incompatible with Western culture. Far from it. It's just that you don't see it in the sense of the "giant piloted fighting robot" nearly as often. Since Westerners are more afraid of science, the robots you do see are typically not all that dangerous to humans. Take C-3PO for example. Or Wall-E. Or that dumb robot that followed around Will Robinson in Lost in Space or whatever. Or hell, Rosie in The Jetsons.

File: T2.jpg (26KB, 590x251px) Image search: [Google]

26KB, 590x251px

>>15095691
>Teminator 2

Not really, a big part of Terminator 2 was showing John's attachment form with T-800, and also making the audience see him as more than just an automaton, even if he was by his own admission, the ending proves it with the Thumbs Up moment. Plus when he ignores Connor's order not to go. (Granted him going could be because his order from future Connor to protect past Connor overrides him taking orders. Which admittedly makes sense)

>>15095691
retard

>>15095992
Okay, why?

File: All the technology an American needs.jpg (186KB, 600x490px) Image search: [Google]

186KB, 600x490px

>>15094849
I feel a lot of Americans fear robotics. Just look at when Boston Dynamics releases a viral video of their bots and the comments are shit like 'hurr durr Robot Overlords' or 'They'll tek our jerbs'.

>>15095974
okay, so why no story about badass Americans jury-rigging the evil robots to use them as weapons? the robots not being 'good' is not a reason to exclude them entirely.

>>15095992
really helpful answer, you furthered the conversation a lot of with.

>>15095974
I think this dynamic could actually work for a mecha thing; the indomitable human spirit triumphs over an army of human-hating AI machines by stealing some of them and jury-rigging controls inside.

>>15097365
Again, Americans trust themselves more than they do machinery.

But something like that is actually not entirely unheard of. Give Mass Effect 2 a play some time.

>>15094929
>so Americans are just that obsessed with realism? I don't see how anything but the hardest of hard-SF can take off
Wut? The highest grossing movies in the US are Star Wars followed by Avatar. Star Wars is space fantasy and Avatar is not exactly Hard Sci-fi.

>>15094893
>they just don;t fiction in general
Is that why the country has produced renowned SF literary works? I mean you have authors like Robert Heinlein, Frank Herbert, Phillip K. Dick William Gibson, Orson Scott Card, Dan Simmons etc. The works of some of these guys have been pretty influential on SF including /m/ related stuff.

>>15097422
i never said no sci-fi ever came from America; I said the public reception of those works - as with all those authors you mention, at their own times - was not exactly huge. it was a fringe thing then, and now no one dares write an original sci-fi script, just recycling the things you just spoke of, over and over again.

>>15097378
what about anime series like Gurren Lagann? it's message was about the strength of the human spirit; the robots were just a means of using that. it wasn't like the robots were the heroes.

>>15097422
It's true writers like Phillip K Dick and Robert Heinlein came from America, but it's been decades. What about the twenty-first century? Even the latter half of the twentieth?

>>15097422
And if you're not writing YET ANOTHER Star Wars sequel, anything mechanical with legs is still almost a guaranteed critical failure.

>>15097470
>it's

>>15097484
oh thanks, that really added to the discussion

>>15094893
Unless its magic or incredibly well known, westerners aren't super keen on associating themselves with fictional stuff.
It's simply too nerdy for them.

>>15097495
i think you're right. i remember how bad people tore into Interstellar (no, love is not a super-physics force; no, that does not ruin the whole movie). original sci-fi scripts are pretty much not welcome here.

>>15097470
You could say that about practically any robot anime that doesn't have sentient robots

This probably plays into the whole idea of how westerners see tools as a separate entity from the self instead of an extension of the self. We have people arguing for restricted gun ownership on the grounds that legally available guns cause crime. You can see here the implicit trust that a psychopathic murderer would not use illegal methods to obtain guns, or use some other method failing that. At some point in the mental gymnastics one has to go through for this argument, it is necessary to apply some form of animism to guns, as if the guns themselves are sentient and decide to kill people on their own.

In an environment where such arguments exist, it is of little surprise that westerners do not trust robots, especially when those who make such arguments tend to be in complete control of the media.

>>15097461
Screwed up. Was meant to quote this >>15094900.
Anyway
>public reception of those works - as with all those authors you mention, at their own times - was not exactly huge
What do you mean? I mean look at mecha which is what this thread is regarding, other than Gundam which is Japan's pop culture icon equivalent to what Star Wars is in the US it's pretty niche. Even a lot of the well regarded anime and manga SF works were cult stuff.

>no one dares write an original sci-fi script, just recycling the things you just spoke of, over and over again
A lot of sci-fi film are based on literary works. For example late last year we had Arrival one of the most acclaimed sci-fi films in a while and it's based on a short story. Though in 2015 there was another acclaimed SF film Ex Machina which was an original screenplay .

But even regarding SF anime can you honestly say we've seen much originality these days?

>>15094849

>Brushing with broad strokes: The Thread

File: USoJapan-144dpi.jpg (358KB, 794x1225px) Image search: [Google]

358KB, 794x1225px

>>15097480
I'm not too well read but I don't think there has really been any new groundbreaking work as those. Though you can find good stuff if you look for them. Pic related is pretty decent . It has mecha in it as well.

>>15097500
Interstellar made quite a large bit of of money anon. It's also highly regarded movie by a lot of people and is on the IMDB Top 50.

File: IsvDiagram.jpg (100KB, 600x396px) Image search: [Google]

100KB, 600x396px

>>15097422
>Avatar is not exactly Hard Sci-fi.
Actually Avatar have the most realistic spaceship since forever, check "Pellegrino's Valkyrie design"
(yes they inverted the name of the spaceship and the shuttle)
It only fall flat because of how ridiculously costly it would be to produce that much antimatter and the laser to sail.

But instead of making a movie about that they erased some spaceship sequences to give us more blue-cat sex

>>15097549
originality of concept aside, at least you see new stories, not exclusively sequels, spinoffs, and remakes.

File: rx7.jpg (76KB, 716x480px) Image search: [Google]

76KB, 716x480px

>>15097711
>Actually Avatar have the most realistic spaceship since forever

>But instead of making a movie about that they erased some spaceship sequences to give us more blue-cat sex


so... then anon saying ...

>Avatar is not exactly Hard Sci-fi.


is right?

Got it.

>>15097572
I thought people round here thought it was Ready Player One tier?

>>15094871
>grounded in realism
>exposed guts on ships constantly to show off Muh Detail

>>15097748
Like most posts on this site. I assume that post is sarcasm.

>>15097483
> anything mechanical with legs is still almost a guaranteed critical failure
Pacific Rim wasn't a critical failure. Also critical failure didn't stop Bayformers and we're on the 5TH ONE now.

>>15097725
I just mentioned Arrival and Ex Machina which are two recent films that aren't sequels, spinoffs, and or remakes. There was Interstellar as well.

Care to recommend me some noteworthy original story SF anime of recent that aren't sequels, spinoffs, and or remakes?

>>15097373
What is this, EDF?