Does anyone else just think Origin is really, really bad? I tried

>>15084288
I think for allot of fans, the source material itself, and getting to see pree OYW UC is so cool that they look past how edgy Char is made out to be in Origin. I mostly like Origin just to see pre OYW UC events animated, and I find the side cast are all pretty good too. Char's story itself is cool as well. He is just not quite what he should have been as a character.

Origin is bad, but 0079 is also bad in a bunch of ways. If your friend thinks that about Char in Origin, he will not like any of the rest of the Gundam shows either.

You probably should have gotten him started on SEED or something, shallow enough to get him interested and then move on to other shows to see if he latches on.

>>15084288
Char is great in 0079, decent in CCA, and horrible in Origins. Pretty bad in Zeta too. The more he's written to be a protagonist or some badass power fantasy the more embarrassing his character is. He's better for his iconic value and as his original revenge story was.

I made the same mistake except I tried to watch Thunderbolt with a friend, who other than liking the animation, said all the characters were paper thin and shitty other than Daryl. Which I agreed with, I don't know why I didn't learn my lesson and turned another friend off now. I need to just start people off with 79.

>>15084297
He liked 00 and he enjoyed Turn A, he also liked War in the Pocket despite not knowing the context of it. Sadly he's never watched UC otherwise and I really wanted to get him into it.

You did tell him that 0080 and Turn A rely on having watched 0079, right?

If he liked Turn A, then just tell him that 0079 was written by the same guy, and he might give it a chance.

>>15084288
I don't think that Origin is bad. It gives me lots of fun, it has the best girl of the Universal Century, it has nice mechs and (I couldn't believe this) Zeon intelligence carrying Makarovs.
The story is a bit too superheroic, but it was always the problem of any Gundam.

>>15084288
Origin is really really fun as Charwank. Your failures are your own, who the fuck would just give someone unrestricted charwank when they haven't seen 0079?

>>15084725
I don't know, I thought because the animation was nicer and the story was more "background" focused, it would be a good introduction to the UC and to 0079. I actually read Origin before I watched 0079 because I was a faggot back then and afraid of watching anything with such old animation and which I found to start off slow.

>>15084288
>encouraging somebody to watch a prequel first
You have only yourself to blame. Do you know what a prequel is? It's a type of sequel. As with any sequel you don't just ignore the original start in the fucken middle. It makes no sense. Even prequels expect you to have seen the original.

Also, he was spot about Char, talk about character assassination. In his mind Char will forever be the retarded Origin version and it's all your fault.

>I tried to get my friend into /m/ stuff
>Origin
>0079
You are a fucking retard.
What about you get him something good autist?
>0079
Really autist, you wanted to show him an old toy commercial for little kids to get him into /m/? How autistic are you?

>>15084288
Funny that, Origins is what actually got me into Gundam. I've been watching other stuff and Origins is still my favorite.

>Origins

Stop this.

>>15084288
It's funny, because as soon as the first preview of the first episode of Orgin came out, I had many doubts of this OVA series.
So here's Char, the character you all know and loved, as a young and handsome blonde boy who is very smart and not afraid of anything doing badass shit, playing everyone like a damn fiddle, sounds like a wanker fanfiction nobody asked for. Meanwhile the majority of the cast, with deformed cartoon faces, does dramatic shit and we are supposed to take it all very seriously.
I imagine some fans of the original series would be offended by this blatant money grabber prequel, but many actually defended it because "muh 0079" and "muh 'new' material"

Just look at all those orgin zaku kits

It depends.

Do you like Char? Do you like Zeon? Do you enjoy Japanese Nationalism? If so you'll enjoy it as the amazing rise of a glorious Japanese empire is turned into a tragedy as hideous gaijin kill the perfect dream but never tarnish the Japanese soul.

>>15084955
It's retarded because in 79 Char was fun since he mostly just stayed in the background and let Zabis destroy each other in Shakespearean drama and let Zeon become vulnerable before stepping in, while playing his cards carefully. He is not some fearless badass who can flick people with a finger 200 ft and make them smash brick. He is a combination of careful, patient, and damn talented in order to win. He is lucky he preyed on Garma as opposed to any other Zabi, he got the one most susceptible to fall for his bullshit.

>>15084302
>Pretty bad in Zeta too.
I don't think so friend.

>>15084732
I got into gundam by reading the origin novels.

I mean looking back on them I see how flawed and shitty the Char stuff was, but Zeta Char also sucks. Charwank sucks in general.

>>15084288
>>15049696
We get it. You don't like Origin. You really really don't like it. Seriously though.

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>>15084288
>made the mistake of showing him Origin before 0079

C'mon, man... You know better than that. Production order is the only answer.

Also,
>I tried to get my friend into /m/ stuff
And you thought that the best way to do that was with UC Gundam?

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The manga is godlike, the problem lies with the changes the OVA makes. I love Char and he's my favorite character, but even I think the OVA places too much importance on him.

>>15084955
>deformed cartoon faces, does dramatic shit and we are supposed to take it all very seriously.
>I imagine some fans of the original series would be offended

You're a fucking idiot. All of the exaggerated faces and actions are for comedic effect, and most of the fans of the original series have read the manga that this is based on already.

>>15085082
>All of the exaggerated faces and actions are for comedic effect
in the same show where everything else including the protagonist is drawn in a differnt style and not very comedic?
The original 0079 anime was fine because everyone and everything is drawn the wame way.
It's like that pig mc in accel world, there's everyone else, then there's this guy from another universe.

>>15085104
>in the same show where everything else including the protagonist is drawn in a differnt style and not very comedic?
Actually it happens to most of the named characters at some point. Dozle has a few good moments. Char is the main character of this arc and has the most screentime, so of course it happens to him the most.

>>15084288
>He also said Char is a cheesy character and not even in an enjoyable way, because you're supposed to think he's badass.

He's right, though.

>>15084288
>because you're supposed to think he's badass.

If you read all of the manga, it really makes the Char in the flashback parts make sense. You aren't supposed to think hes badass, you're supposed to think he's broken, a man mentally unhinged by the events of his early life. This becomes especially apparent when later in the manga near the end he develops a bit of a god complex in regard to himself believing he is not only a newtype, but THE newtype that will lead the newtype people of the future because its the role he was made for as Deikun's heir.

Origin's flashbacks aren't Charwank, it's about how Char broke as a person.

>>15084309
>He liked 00

Your friend just has shit taste anon, it happens. Nothing you can really do about it unfortunately.

>>15085172
>Origin's flashbacks aren't Charwank, it's about how Char broke as a person.
Isnt that obvious or is OP so fucking dumb someone had to spell it out for him?

watching origin really made me feel bad for casval and artesia, especially her. it made me understand char the psychopath. he actually believes he's not betraying anyone

I'm watching all of the UC in chronological order (lol) but I skipped origin completely.

>>15085290
How can you betray someone you're not loyal to? Especially if that someone is a complete moron (Garma), cunt that wants you dead (Zabi family has at least one of them if not three) or just untalented as a commander and relies heavily on his personal charisma (Dozle).

>>15085305
dozle is a good guy, even in origin

>>15085391
But a mediocre commander. In the very first Loum sequence he's suffering heavy losses

>>15084288
Yes, it's shit. It's also not canon to 0079.

>>15084288

Never read the mangas, only saw the movies. Love them. They have like a classic anime movie vibe to them. I love the settings, music, feels very cinematic. Funny, too.

Not sure what people wanted out of these.

>>15085557
>Yes, it's shit. It's also not canon to 0079.

Tomino's novelization 0079 ?
Tomino's animated version of 0079 ?
Tomino's film trilogy version of 0079 ?
Yas manga version of 0079 ?
Yas animated version of 0079 ?
Thunderbolt version of 0079 ?

To which 0079 are you referring dickhead ?

>>15084297
>If your friend thinks that about Char in Origin, he will not like any of the rest of the Gundam shows either.
i disagree.
I've watched literally every Gundam so far and enjoyed almost every one of them. Origin Char is a mockery, and there is a lot more silly humor compared to 0079's relatively serious dramatic tone. Dozle is a total goof, for example, that silliness with Ramba rescuing Sayla's cat, the comedy takes of Garma's flunkies reacting to Char, and so on. Even with Haro and the White Base Kids, the original Gundam seems stoic by comparison.

>>15085593
The novel and the manga don't belong in a discussion of canon.
animated = official
Manga and novels are neither (unless you're a turnfag who wants to insist that the Turn A is super-ultra-powerful).
The differences between the series and movie canon are negligible. While the movie skips some things and expands on some things, the only place where it actually contradicts/changes something that happened in the series is swapping out vehicles. The same can be said for the Thunderbolt anime. Regardless of the logic fail of having a fully functional FA-78 dedicated to a debris field, the thing that everyone complains about when arguing that Thunderbolt isn't canon is the slightly different designs of the mobile suits which is even less of a "swapping out vehicles" than the G-Armor/Core Booster change.

>>15084987
How is Zeta Charwank?

what's wrong with wanking char?

>>15084288
Kill yourself, Animeonly
You were supposed to show him the manga, where the flashback arc doesn't happen til halfway through
Or at least the movies

>>15087811
It's kinda gay. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

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>>15084288
I had the opposite reaction; my friends fucking LOVED Origin, but hated IBO and thought Thunderbolt was "entertaining, but only okay."

Then again, they all grew up in the 80's, and they all liked anime back then, so Origin caters right to their cultural sensibilities.

>>15085609
>there is a lot more silly humor compared to 0079's relatively serious dramatic tone. Dozle is a total goof, for example, that silliness with Ramba rescuing Sayla's cat, the comedy takes of Garma's flunkies reacting to Char, and so on.

This is the best stuff. The movies have so much personality.

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>>15087811
Nothing in the slightest?

Yes origin is fucking terrible and the art style is gross

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>>15085628
>animated = official

Not always.

>>15088103
That intro is basically all that's worthwhile to watch from Origin, the rest of the show is meh.

Origin is terrible. Char is supposed to be a cool loser, not a sociopathic god who could outplan Batman

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>>15088970

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>>15084808
>>15085172
>>15085268

>>15085628
>animated = official

The context of that statement was in regards to a question about which ms designs were official, since there were a ton of side manga, art book, msv, and similar designs outside of the animated material. It had nothing to do with story, setting, or characters, only the ms themselves.

People in this thread are using "Origin" to refer solely to the animated OVAs instead of the actual manga series.

What the fuck?

>>15089294
What manga series? There's no such thing as manga. What are you referring to? There's only anime in this board.

>>15088557
Yes, always.
"canon" is not even a thing in Gundam.
There is a series. There is a trilogy.
They don't match. Deal with it.

>>15089294
>actual manga series
Have you ever seen the 1979 "actual" manga series for Mobile Suit Gundam?
It exists. Go find it, read it, and understand why it's okay to disregard Gundam manga. Origin is not the "actual" anything, it's a fanfiction that just happens to be written by an *artist* who worked on Mobile Suit Gundam. It is in no way any more "actual" than For The Barrel.

The OVA can at least be said to be an "actual" Sunrise product based on the aforementioned non-canon reinterpretation of the "ACTUAL" story of Mobile Suit Gundam.

>>15089384

That's the one with Z'Goks in space, isn't it?

I watched a half an hour of the Origin I and it was probably the most bastardizing character assassination I have ever seen in any medium. Further proving that japs have no taste and will ruin anything.

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>>15085238
00 is good, it was my first

>>15089384
The difference is that the original gundam manga is based on the animated series while with origin the OVAs are a fairly faithful adaptation of one part of the manga. The manga is the source material in this case and there are a couple of things in Origin (like how Char acts) that seem out of place without the rest of the manga.

>>15084288
Origin is not good but it is early UC so people get really excited bcuz yeah

>>15085172
>Origin's flashbacks aren't Charwank, it's about how Char broke as a person.
Then why is Origin regarded as bad? Or you're talking about the manga only?

>>15089400
>the most bastardizing character assassination I have ever seen in any medium.

Origin Char is great. 0079 Char was an angry guy in a mask and Char's Counterattack was... whatever the fuck that was.

>>15089400
>the most bastardizing character assassination I have ever seen in any medium

>>Char hates Zabis
>>Has a tragic upbringing
>>Wants revenge
>>Gets revenge by being a lying piece of shit
>>Also has mind powers

How is Origin Char not every Char?

>>15084288
Why would you start anybody new to /m/ stuff with UC Gundam at all, let alone fucking Origin? Gundam is a gigantic fucking franchise, so starting with much beyond production order is already a bad idea, and 0079 is fucking ancient and looks it. Once you've got a taste for the genre you can look past the animation to appreciate the story, but if you're new to the genre you're going to have a hard time looking past the fact that it's 40 years old and looks worse than cartoons twice its age.

Something like 00 would have been a much better starting point. Hell, IBO would have been a better starting point, despite its flaws.

Better still would have been to start with something that's as casual and entry-level as possible like TTGL, Gravion if they like tits, Gyrozetter if they like fun. Yes, it's plebian shit, but everyone has to start somewhere, and Char's fanfiction isn't it.

>>15090195
Some people delude themselves into thinking Char is a good person somehow and not a manipulative asshole.

>>15084309
>He liked 00
00 got me into Gundam so if he liked that then he'll be interested enough to start watching other Gundam series, but you just need to give it some time.

>>15084288
anime is cheesy in general

>>15084302
>said all the characters were paper thin and shitty other than Daryl

Wow, I can see why other boards keep thinking anyone who is shitposting is from /m

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>>15089371
>ANT is canon

wew lad.

>>15090380
And some people think that a good person can't be a manipulative asshole

>>15092557
You could hypothetically come up with a character who's a manipulative asshole and yet a good person.

Char is not that person. Char is first driven by revenge against the Zabis, then by copying his father's insane ideals. He dropped a giant asteroid on the Earth in an attempt to kill nearly everyone on it. He betrayed nearly everyone he ever worked with and had the balls to claim he'd never betrayed anyone in his life.

Char was a terrible person whose goals were occasionally aligned with what other, less terrible people wanted.

>>15090167
>If you read all of the manga

I'm saying that Char's character in the flashbacks lacks context without seeing his character in the rest of Origin's story, and that the OVA lacks that context because its only the flashbacks.

Origin Char during the war itself is a man even more arrogant, obsessive, and broken inside than in the original tv series and this becomes increasingly obvious as the manga goes on. There is a reason why people who read the manga say Origin Char is a sociopath.

>>15092580
>is first driven by revenge against the Zabis
Who are corrupt and greedy.
>by copying his father's insane ideals
They are not insane and he is not copying them
>he dropped a giant asteroid on the Earth in an attempt to...
...change the current dire political situation
>he betrayed nearly everyone he ever worked
Zeon? He might have betrayed them but he never pretended to like them.
>had the balls to claim he'd never betrayed anyone in his life
Never said that.

>>15084288
ITT: /m/ has shit tastes and so does OP's friend.


Origin OVA are fantastic you're a fucking tool if you think otherwise.

>>15092597
>There is a reason why people who read the manga say Origin Char is a sociopath.
I have nothing against that but it bothers me when people can't understand that the Origin and MSG are two completely different things and they shouldn't use one to interpret the other.

>>15092629
>Zeon? He might have betrayed them but he never pretended to like them.
Didn't he pretend to like Garma before setting up his death?
>Never said that.
Newfag detected. He said this in Zeta.

>>15092654
>Didn't he pretend to like Garma before setting up his death?
Before or after he constantly made fun of him?
>Newfag detected.
Implying I have to spend a long time here to know about this dumb meme. He never said that.

>>15092637
Guess I'm a wrench then, because its a bunch of Zeonwank bullshit.

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>>15092629
>They are not insane and he is not copying them

Yeah, sure.

Your friend has bad taste. Might I suggest scrubbing them from the gene pool?

>>15092840
>using The Origin as evidence
What you are currently trying to claim is that Zeon was insane even though if there is any indication in the series proper it's to the opposite.
As for his ideas, objectively there is nothing insane about them.

>>15092391
>canon is not a thing
>ANT is canon
One of these statements is in my post.
The other is your own stupidity.

>>15092694
>the origin of char as told from the actual manga
>expecting Federation BS when its clearly focused on how fucking lying conniving and deceitful Zabi and Zeon scum as

>>15088970
Char's not even a cool loser for that long; he was pretty cool post-ABQ once Sayla tells him to knock his bullshit off and through the events Zeta, but he hit middle age and lost his goddamn mind. I don't even think it's character assassination in CCA, it's just that Char bitched out and Amuro had to clean his fucking mess up one last time.

>>15092654
He did regret killing Garma because he seemed to be genuine in his friendship, for a fucking dirty Zabi. Kycillia seems to waffle a little as well, but I'm not sure what the fuck they were trying to do with her anyway.

>>15084958
>Do you like Char? Do you like Zeon? Do you enjoy Japanese Nationalism?
I'm confused, were we talking about Origin or Unicorn?

>>15094333
>He did regret killing Garma because he seemed to be genuine in his friendship
Regret is a strong word. He did admit he has nothing against Garma as a person. Later he regretted reacting emotionally but he never stopped disapproving of them morally.

>Kycillia seems to waffle a little as well
She was pretty fond of Char if that is what you mean.

>>15092883
>Zeon was insane even though if there is any indication in the series proper it's to the opposite.

We know nothing about Zeon the person in the 'series proper'. The only time we see him animated he is literally on his deathbed. Everything we hear about him is second hand and being pushed by people with an agenda (the Zabis use him for propaganda and Char is naturally biased). Even Tomino gave him a speech in the Zeta Gundam novels wehre Deikun basically shits on individual rights and says that things are better when people subsume their rights to the state and the reason that Spacenoids are superior is because they completely subsume their individual rights due to the effort of surviving in the harsh environment of space. That sounds more like something the raving loon of Origin would say rather than the 'peaceful revolutionary' from people's headcanon.

>As for his ideas, objectively there is nothing insane about them.

His 'Only Spacenoids are superior, enlightened enough to become Newtypes' nonsense is probably the reason nearly every Spacenoid nation or movement except the AEUG and Side 6 are genocidal Spacenoid Supremacists. Even the AEUG are Spacenoid Supremacist (just listen to their constant bleating about how everyone on Earth are losers who are 'bound by gravity'). They're just nicer and non-genocidal about it,

>>15095883
>spacenoids are superior
That's Zabi's idea.
>the reason
No, it's not. At least that's not how it works irl

>>15095714
I thought the reason he had second thoughts about his Zabi murderfest was because he felt hollow after getting Garma killed. Of course it didn't stop him from lasering Kycilia's face off later, but it's at least indicative of some level of attachment to him.

>>15096025
>That's Zabi's idea.
Not him, but no it isn't.
The core idea of Contolism was that spacenoids would evolve to a higher level not achievable by people on earth.

>>15096047
But that doesn't mean that the spacenoids are superior. They're no better than the earthnoids until they finally evolve

>>15095883
>His 'Only Spacenoids are superior, enlightened enough to become Newtypes' nonsense
Some people used it as propaganda and some genuinely believed it but it was not a part of Zeon's philosophy.
>AEUG are Spacenoid Supremacist
This is complete bullshit.
>just listen to their constant bleating about how everyone on Earth are losers
I'd like to but nothing of the sort has been portrayed in the series.
>bound by gravity
Zeon's theory was that human perception will expand to meet the requirements of living in space. It would be hard for this to happen if people don't actually live in space.

>we know nothing about Zeon the person in the 'series proper'
Say whatever you want about Char's personality, but he and Sayla have the proper puritan manners of a rather typical bourgeois family, respect their father and seem to have fond memories of their childhood so even if we assume that his ideals were out there he still most likely was a rather respectable dude in his private matters and not the raving madman the Origin presents him to be.
>even Tomino gave him a speech in the Zeta Gundam novels wehre Deikun basically shits on individual rights
I'd like to believe you but looking at the neutrality of your other statements I feel disinclined to.

>>15096045
He didn't mind Garma but there is nothing to suggest any level of attachment. Just benevolent tolerance.
He felt Garma's death was not as satisfying as he expected. Knowing his usual nothing-personnel-kid attitude it probably means that after the initial period of gloating was over he felt kind of embarrassed and confused about getting worked up over it in the first place. But in the end he just can't help being the sort of person that gets worked up about stuff.

>>15085628
No it's the evil Buddhist faction that makes it non-canon.

>>15089391
I mean, that's technically a thing, http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/MS-13_Gasshia

>>15092597
This.

Origin is a retelling, but a more in-depth one - character's motivations and backgrounds are fleshed out a lot more. It smooths over plot holes and tries to provide a more coherent story of the OYW than the patchwork and sometimes contradictory explanations added over the many years. Even so, it's not intended to "replace" the old canon.

I actually like Origin Char because the depths to which he is a manipulative, coldly determined individual are truly on display, because the story is being told from his perspective. The original kind of glosses over that for the sake of mystery - but The Origin gives us the full picture of what was going on under the hood, so to speak. It feels a lot more consistent.

>>15097166
Comically exaggerating someone's traits until they are unrecognizable is not depth.

Origin makes a better case for the actions of CCA.

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>>15084288
Char in the origin is soooo cheesy and edgy. Goodness does anyone remember the scene where he just stared at the military officer and the officer shat his pants? Also the time when his classmate touched his shoulders and shit happened?

I think episode 4 is the most shitty and senseless of them all, as Ral's squad fought the Gun Cannons and the feddie ilot acts like dumb lads or something. The battle choreography is shit-tier.

Gosh, I'd rather watch G-Reco or IBO than this shit.

>>15084288
Why they thought this would be better than just adapting the manga, I will never understand.

>>15088958
How about the mech fights in the last episode?

>>15097282
The battle at least made sense, in the fact that the entire point was to show that the feddie had built Guntanks with legs, not real mobile suits. They didn't move much because they straight the fuck up weren't built to and got raped and squad wiped as a result.

>>15097290
It's more or less the same in the manga. The OVA just makes the absurd scenes more obvious.

I just watched the first episode of Origin 10 minutes ago. I thought it was pretty fuckin cool. I haven't even finished 0079 yet, but I feel like I know pretty much the entire premise of UC Gundam due to hanging out in this shithole for so many years.

Gonna save the remaining three episodes for the next few nights. What am I in for?

>>15096062
>I'd like to believe you but looking at the neutrality of your other statements I feel disinclined to.

Here's what Deikun has to say on individual rights:

>Members of a nation are not supposed to place themselves at the same level as the nation itself. Individuals who sing of their sovereignty threaten to crush the nation. If a group of such individuals attempted to manage a country, the general arbitrariness of their governance would render the endeavor hopeless.

On living in space:

>If there were an accident on a colony, although it could well be that the responsibility might lie with the Space Corporation, the first priority of the Spacenoids must be to preserve the integrity of their environment. This definition of justice is not something new. In an extremely harsh environment, before worrying about individual sovereignty, all financial and material resources must be devoted to environmental protection. It is only with a surplus that attention can be diverted to the security of the individual.

He doesn't exactly strike me as a 'peaceful democrat'. You can read the whole thing here: http://www.mechatalk.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=16460

>>15084309
He likes 0080? Then why the Fuck haven't you showed him 0083 or 08th yet?

>>15097393
Do you like GunPla. Because all the MS in these 4 episodes were shoehorned in there for GunPla even if the shit was just a 3D promo movie within the OVA (Waff I'm looking at you).

>>15084288
It's terrible. I get that people love Char, but all the non-Tomino work about him is completely awful. People talk a lot of shit about CDA but it's no worse than the backstory in Origin.

There are so many things I hate about Origin, like the way it seems to continuously drop references as if to tick things off a list; cheesy melodrama which happens ridiculously often (but weirdly without any build up for you to get invested in characters); etc etc.

The worst offense is the removal moral ambiguity that leaves us with a full cast of moustache twirling villains. I don't want Gundam to be a thing that adheres to cliches about what it should or should not be, but I'd at least like the screenwriters to try and construct something with human characters.

>>15084288
>Does anyone else just think Origin is really, really bad?
The manga has some nice art, but all the stuff with Char's backstory is overwhelmingly stupid. So yeah, the OVAs have been pretty shit. Even in the manga the backstory is trash.

It wasn't backstory we needed to explore anyway. The main story itself gives us all we need about Char and the Zabis.

>>15097636
Because they are nothing like 0080?

>>15097620
>He doesn't exactly strike me as a 'peaceful democrat
Since when democrat is equal to an individualist?
And what's wrong in pushing all the resources on keeping the life going further?
For example, Soviets have put their rights away and prevented the Chernobyl disaster from becoming even more disasterous than it already was. Isn't that a sort of a proper deed?

>>15097651
>shoehorned in to sell toys

I already get that impression from most of the MS in every Gundam show.

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>>15097620
Well, some parts sure make it seem like he is saying "Stop expecting the government to do everything for you, you baby. No one is obliged to care about you and your personal needs."
Struggle for survival is an important theme in many of Tomino's works but if you think about it social survival instinct arose from individual survival instinct. We protect community because we expect community to protect us so saying something like "Relying on the government to secure your individual rights is narrow-minded" is just stupid and unfair. It all sounds intuitively wrong.
Most people that risked their lives for Zeon or the Federation were honest men (and women) that were doing their civil duty. Do they have no right to demand from the government to provide for their security? Isn't the point that as society evolves human needs become more and more complex and the definition of what people's rights are becomes more specific to their circumstances? For most civilized people security means nice house, nice car, nice clothes, sending your children to a nice university, early retirement etc. We take stuff like running water and electricity for granted while some people don't even have food and shelter. That's not very cool. It doesn't mean we have to become commies or give all our shirts to the poor or give up on modern society and live in caves. It just means we can't expect the government to meet our every whim and make the world a good place at the same time. This is the first thing they should teach you in school. If society has become more complex our understanding of society should also become more complex. It's the effect of globalization. I might be biased because I of my own liberal leanings but that's the sort of thing I picked up from Tomino esp. Zeta. Technically it's almost the same thing stated in the speech but less rude. I guess the wording matters a lot. I should check with the original text.

>>15097651
>Because all the MS in these 4 episodes were shoehorned in there for GunPla
>Shoehorned

Guntank, Guncannon, the MS-01, MS-02, MS-04, the zaku I, and Zaku II were all in the original Origin manga, which didn't get any gunpla during its release. The only ones that are original to the OVAs re the Waffe (MS-03 is mentioned by name in the manga, but doesn't appear. It was to test internal compact reactors as opposed to the previous larger external ones) and the MSD stuff. Some of them like Char's zaku I and Bugu have had their appearance altered a bit though.

>>15097363
He means adapting an arc that happens in the middle of the manga rather than doing it like the manga does.

Space colonies are extremely fragile compared to planets. It makes sense that spacenoids are more acutely concerned of their space colony survival than they would be of individuals.

>>15095714
I meant more like the writers couldn't decide if she was semi-sympathetic like Garma/Degwin or just Ghiren with tits. Her cowardly actions just before Char blows her up made it easier to watch her die.

>>15099434
I don't feel even Gihren was that bad. He wasn't a nice guy but it's not like he enjoyed mass murder. He was just very ambitious. He knew what he wanted and how to get it.
Kycilia was also very ambitious and she hated always having to live in his shadow but she was more catious and more of a schemer. Overall she showed more regard for other people than he did if that is what you mean.
Both were just really rational and pragmatical. I don't feel it's about who's evil or who's not. It's just a matter of priorities.

>>15092557
Geez, Anon, I'm happy I'm not your friend...

>>15096062
My impression about Zeon when they showed him in Origin was that he was a man surpassed by the political situation. It's clear that neither the kids nor the wife would love the madman he became. To me it feels like he was a good father once, it's just that they are showing him precisely at the point when everything turns upside down.

>>15101475
Look at:
>>15092840
>Those sinners will be engulfed by hellfire
That doesn't sound like "kind of stressed out".

>>15084288
Yes

>>15084288
It's not thunderbolt bad but close

>>15101972
I didn't say he was kinda stressed. It's clear he was stressed as fuck. He should be mentally ill not to be.

>>15105629
Portraying someone as being overwhelmed by the political situation is understandable. Portraying them as a raving madman is quite another thing and one quite uncalled for. This, of course, is Yas's private fanfiction and he has the right to do with it whatever suits his fancy but I don't see why his work should be cited as a reference for the original series.

>>15101455
Don't worry, I'm not manipulative at all. I actually more of a Bittenfeld type - loud and not that smart to be a manipulative asshole