Why does Gundam constantly get put against Star Wars? Especially

That said:
Mobile Suits equipped with miniaturized Ion Engines.

Good idea? or Best idea?

I'm willing to wager that it makes Stars fags feel good because their expanded universe could kick our expanded universe's ass. I bet WH40k autists feel the same way about Star Wars.

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>>15042050
>Why does Gundam constantly get put against Star Wars?

Because they both use a lot of similar narrative elements and plot points.

They are space operas that were released within a couple of years of each other about a teenage boy plucked from seeming obscurity and sent down a path of destiny when his home is attacked and is forced to learn about space magic aboard a ship crewed by misfits to fight a war against an aggressive militant force equipped with a threatening super weapon and a mysterious masked rival who is also attuned to space magic serving a master with delusions of being an absolute monarch. Also, laser swords.

P. sure Tomino has a hardon for Star Wars. Look at beam sabres and Iron Mask. Hell, watch F91.

>>15042102
Well Gundam was heavily inspired by SW, so no surprise there.
But that ain't what I'm talking about and you know it.

Plus the themes of each franchise are completely different from one another, regardless of similar plot points. Also Gundam can hardly be counted as a space opera.

>>15042096
>expanded universe
Not canon

>>15042117

You could just change drop the word expanded really.

>>15042114
>But that ain't what I'm talking about and you know it.

Apparently, I don't.

What exactly is the point that you are trying to make?

> Gundam can hardly be counted as a space opera.

wut.

>>15042117
There's always one fag that screams non-canon as if it means anything to anyone.

>>15042117
>Not canon

Depends on which EU you're talking about. After the Disney reset, the TV shows remained canon and certain novels and comic books that have come out since are part of that new canon. All together they have created a very sizable EU within a few short years.

>>15042259
Gundam takes place largely on earth in most iterations.
Also there are no interplanetary aspects in Gundam aside from Jupiter dickery.

Because one is the biggest murrican sci-fi franchise and the other is the biggest nip sci-fi franchise. Same reason people keep doing the Superman vs Goku routine.

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>>15042050
Everyone forgets about how destructive beams are and how fucking agile MS are in space when they make the comparison.

>>15042406

No, they don't. They just don't care, because starfighters are so fast that it doesn't matter. They could be Olympic gymnasts and it wouldn't matter. UC mobile suits aren't that destructive either.

>>15042419
This
I LOVE Gundam, but fucking X-Wings n shit can travel between planets in no time flat (though that could be simply because SW doesn't give a shit about accuracy regarding the distance between planetoids).

>>15042448

It probably is that Lucas just didn't care about accuracy (he wasn't trying to either to be fair). What he wanted was for it to be visually exciting, not accurate. So the Millennium Falcon, TIE fighters, X-Wings etc can leave a planet and travel to another celestial body in minutes while anything in Gundam would take days, even weeks to make the same journey. Most of them would need assistance of some kind to break atmosphere too.

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>>15042114
>>15042301

Sorry, bro. I don't know what you think "space opera" means, but clearly you're the only one who holds it to whatever that definition is. Gundam checks every box for a space opera.

>>15042050
>Newtypes vs Force users thing, in which Force users are basically wizards.
Kamille controlled the Zeta with his mind, and Judau reassembled ZZ with his mind.

The Bosensor was actually from another Tomino anime (Dunbine??) and was never mentioned in Zeta or ZZ, it was only added to "canon" by the gunpla manual after the two series were finished. At the time of their writing, it was Tomino's intention that these feats were achieved by the pilot's own power alone.

>>15042448
Thats because of hyperspace travel. Remember that dogfighting in starwars is basically ww2 dogfights. Also if turrets can track and shootdown ships there is no reason as to why mobile suits cannot.

They have completely different rolls in battle if both universe's were combined. Ms would act as anti coms becons, guards to capital ships and instalations, as well as boarding units while ships would serve their normal rolls.

On the ground ms would assume their normal rolls and replace every large walker in starwars cannon

>>15042050

tie fighters and x-wings literally dogfight at the level of ww2 fighters

in a straight up match between them in that scenario they actually have a chance

>>15042859
Nah. In Zeta's finale, the newtype ghosts tell Kamille that the Zeta is a machine that can channel his power, basically suggesting that there was something special about the Zeta itself, not only Kamille. It wasn't called Biosensor in the show, but the concept that it had something in it which amplified his power was there.

>>15042957

They also dogfight at a reasonable fraction of the speed of light and can leave a planet entirely in minutes at the most. There is no chance, because they are orders of magnitude faster and UC's weapons and targeting software isn't good enough to make up for the gap in speed.

>>15042975
>They also dogfight at a reasonable fraction of the speed of light

Nah, on screen evidence shows that they was only travel at 1-2 match at best with that visibility, and interplanar travels only works because of hyperdrive, that can't be use anytime and without danger of crashing yourself to other stellar bodies.

And all that thanks to Lucas constant handwaving that doesn't even care about consistency and basic science other than "looks cool". Thats why he was one of the finest /m/an

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>>15042050
>Especially OYW Gundam?

gee I couldn't imagine

>>15043066

On screen evidence in atmosphere shows them only travelling at mach one or two, not in space and you cannot traditionally use hyperdrive within a planet's gravity well in Star Wars. Rogue One is the first movie to have someone do so. And Force Awakens the first to come out of hyperdrive inside a planetary gravity well. They have never used hyperspace to leave a planet, only to leave a system.

>>15043075
You fucking ponce, that's the 0 Gundam, from 00.

>>15042970
>Kamille designed a mobile suit with an NT amplifier he didn't know about
All of that "a machine that can channel those dreams" stuff was because it was a fucking Gundam. It was vague melodramatic dialogue, and the actual on-screen event of Kamille controlling the Zeta with his mind was a laser emanating from his forehead scrambling the HUD and the Zeta moving with the computer apparently out of the way. There is absolutely nothing about the visual that would suggest any special system being activated or that the machine was intended by its builders to operate that way.

>>15042111
At one point there was a scene with an almost Imperial March-like music.

>>15043086
Yet it show that most of starwars was handwaving shit that can be pulled and stretchet at whim by whatever it directors and fans want to and each show still can't deny that it can't travel more than Hornets max speed, only a bit double in space, and still can be hit by flak turrets, but thankfully it has far longer live support than other spacecraft thus the planetary travel abilities.

So sorry anon, you can't fool anyone.

>>15043251

Of course any director can pull and stretch it as they wish, they can do that with anything. Saying they only travel twice x in space because they can be hit by something doesn't make the fact they travel large distances in tiny amounts of time on screen regularly though. Check the difference in size of the Death Star as they cut to and from it during the X-Wings approach though. Or measure it against the actual clock provided in movie. The Falcon reaches the center of the Death Star II in minutes. They almost without exception travel from planetary surface to deep space in minutes without using hyperdrive.

So sorry anon, you can't fool anyone.

>>15042050
Long running franchise

>>15042301
>No interplanetary aspects
wut

ill admit theres gundam has yet to be intergalactic but Mars and Jupiter have been using multiple times

Venus when

>>15046289
Why not trek?

Macross is a better match up for Star Wars than Gundam will ever be.

>>15042050
If you really think about it, for thousands of years of technology, Star Wars tech is rather backwards and primitive. The weapons are puny and weak for the tech level.
Really in a ground battle Gundam could clean Star Wars' clock without breaking a sweat.

Ship wise, yeah Star Wars has an advantage, but as we've seen with the rebellion that can be mitigated by local superiority.

Nah, Gundam is a way better story than that gay Star Wars could ever hope to be.

>"I like Star Wars" - Tomino
(actual quote upon being questioned about F91 OST)
>"Tomino REALLY likes Star Wars" - everyone whose seen 0079
>"I love cock" - OP

>>15042822
No one cares

>>15043201
Most of the music is an almost rip-off from Star Wars tracks.

>>15050755
And Star Wars music is a rip off from great classical pieces of music.

Star Wars is one big rip off itself. A lot of visuals in Star Wars were taken from a French comic Valerian and Lauraline.

There is nothing original about Star Wars except to ignorant faggots.

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>This vs That

When will it end?

>>15042406
>Agile in space
>Less than one G acceleration on the RX-78-2

Please choose one.

>>15042096

You do know that SW could beat 40k, right?

>>15042822
>Wikipedia

>>15042301
Space colonies were the next step after the general populace realized how unlikely it was we're getting to another planet anytime soon. Does Neill Blomkamp's Elysium count as a space opera?

>>15052789
Research it yourself then. They'll all say the same thing.

>>15050823
Never because it's fun.

>>15058400

He doesn't like versus discussion though anon, so you're not allowed to. How dare you enjoy something he not only doesn't enjoy but can't understand why anyone would?

>>15052786
The empire doesn't have the numbers. They have similar capability, sure, but they'd lose a war of attrition and the imperial ground forces are nothing to write home about. Both are capable of Exterminatus and warp travel, but the Imperium has thousand upon thousands of planets on the Empire, and trillions of additional ground forces.

>>15058417

Do we even know how big the Old Republic/Empire are out of interest? Not even as a counterpoint to your discussion, but just in general, because saying another Galactic empire is much bigger it than them seems weird, since the Empire is pretty huge itself. I'd imagine hyperdrive is more efficient than Warp as well though, as an actual counterpoint, since there's no real risk of getting lost in it and no actual risk of madness. Nor does it require the sacrifice of psykers to maintain. I've no idea how fast Warp is though, so it may balance out. The name warp does imply it's faster though, even if hyperdrive is no slouch itself.

>>15058425
Doesn't EoM encompass multiple galaxies?

>>15058428

Not that I'm aware of, but I'm not a W40k fan (I don't play tabletop at all, I just like some of the books and fluff), so I could easily be wrong.

>>15058434
I'm fairly certain that the average Imperium battlefleet consists of several dozen capital ships regardless, whereas the Empire might group up five or six Imperial class.

They also have quite literally nothing comparable to a lance.

>>15058438

What's a lance?

>>15058443
A fuckton bigger than a turbolaser.

>>15058443
An Atlas, two Warhammers, and a Locust.

>>15058446

So it's just a bigger laser? The W40k wikia makes me think it's much the same thing. Saying Star Wars has no counterpart to it is kind of silly, since just having something doesn't inherently make it useful. It'd be like saying that W40k has no ion cannon equivalent (at least to my limited knowledge), therefor they have an advantage. Putting aside that in a war with millions, if not billions of individuals engaged there'll be some crossover of technology as the sides meet and take from each other over the years it would take (W40k's conflict has taken millenia already if I recall), it's not true regardless. Star Wars doesn't use them much, but there are several composite beam lasers that are equivalent to Lances/Lancers going by the descriptions. The super lasers on the two Death Stars are the most famous examples, but there are others in the canon, like the prototype B-Wing's weapon and the one on the Old Republic's LAATs, which are seen in Rebels and The Clone Wars film and cartoon respectively. Composite beam laser's converge several beams in to one, greater beam, making the resulting beam more effective.

>>15058672

I have no idea what this means. I'm sure there's a joke there, but whatever it is has gone right over my head.

>>15048011

That and I expect it would be a lot more fun watching a bunch of VFs dodging around the imperial fleet. I wouldn't even give a shit who wins.

>>15047897
Gundam shares more elements with Star Wars in terms of merchandise selling power.

Because Gundam is a Star Wars ripoff

>>15058809
A lance is a basic unit of organisation in Battletech; it's five battlemechs.

>>15058417
>>15058428

The Empire of Man is actually relatively small in the grand scheme of things. I always use this statement as a reference, but I think it's worth mentioning

>In Macross the Bodolze main battle fleet contained around 4.8 million battleships, and it was one of anywhere between a thousand and 2 thousand Zent battle fleets in existence. There have never been 4.8 million capital ships simultaneously in existence in 40k history.

Now it's unfair to compare basically anything other than R-Type or Lensman to Macross because Macross is one of the most insanely OP sci-fi settings in fiction. But understand the importance is in the second half of that, the part about 40k. The ships guarding Endor was not all the empire had, it was just the Executor's vanguard ships. Every major planet in SW has a vanguard fleet,.

>>15060971
No, Gundam was originally going to be like Starship Troopers. Star Wars on the other hand is a ripoff of Lensman, Flash Gordon, Valerian and Lauraline, Dam Busters, The Hidden Fortress, etc, etc.....
There is nothing original in Star Wars. Except maybe to autistic people.

>>15061090

There's nothing original in most everything. You have to go back to Olduvai Gorge or something to find an original idea. Acting like Star Wars is unique in having obvious influence and building on it is silly.

>>15052786
I'm going to lean in favor of 40K actually kicking SW ass.
Look at the size and firepower of 40K ships compared to SW and then consider 40K are bigger.
Then consider how many Jedi equivalent the Imperium have compared to actual Jedi or Sith. Once again 40K could fry the mind of any force users that show up.

I think 40K could trash SW easily.

>>15061101
I don't know man, 40k is big but their ship works like 18th century corvette, complete with hours long manual reload. And their psyker are really jinxed much, you will end up friying your own force constantly. Also blowing their residence engineseer will net them a platoon of malfunctioning clanks, coupled with WWII style tactics so beating them up is pretty fucking easy.

In the end, its all comes down to who's having the bestest keikaku and plot armor.

>>15061147

The way I saw someone more familiar with both than me describe it before was that Star Wars had the space game advantage, since the setting is designed around space dog fights and it's a big part of it, while W40k had the ground game advantage, since the game was designed around ground campaigns and the rest is mostly supporting fluff to justify ground fights in the first place.

>>15058417

The empire wins the Logistics battle 10 times over. 40k ftl is slow as shit and dangerous while starwars is fast as shit and much safer.

The empire can deploy its troops and conquer worlds and grab supply's they need well before the Imperium would even get word that the planet was attacked

>>15061212
We are comparing 40K to SW here right? Not Star Trek. Star Wars where all combat still resembles WWI

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>>15042050
Release dates? Star Wars was 1976 iirc. Gundam 1979. They're both sci fi.

I know, I know. But let us transpose ourselves for one moment into the mind of the normalfag.

>>15061248

A New Hope was 1977, not 1976. It probably wasn't released in Japan as quickly as it would be nowadays, so it might not have made it there till 1978 or something, but Tomino has acknowledged that it played some part in the conception of Gundam during interview, so he definitely saw it at some point before making Gundam.

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>>15061095
5000 years of recorded story telling. Good luck coming up with anything original!

>>15061260
You know we could also point to Star Wars being a ripoff of Space Battleship Yamato
Yamato 1975
Star Wars 1977

But so what?

>>15061268

There is no so what. I wasn't criticizing Gundam for taking influence for Star Wars, just like I wouldn't criticize Star Wars for taking influence from anything (and it plainly took it from lots of things, which Lucas has also acknowledged repeatedly in interview), including Yamato (though I doubt that was any real influence on the other hand). I was only pointing out the factually incorrect information in anon's post regarding the years and that Tomino has publicly confirmed there was some influence. It's not even a big influence, since Gundam is very different from Star Wars, in setting and characters - but it's there regardless.

>>15061283
supposedly there's evidence of Lucas being in Japan for a film festival or something during Yamato's run, and early Luke when he was a girl can look vaguely Yuki-ish

>>15061286

Even if he definitevly was in Japan during a Yamato run I don't think that counts as evidence that he took influence from it. Especially not when Flash Gordon, Akira Kirosawa and Joseph Campball are all obvious major influences, and Yamato would be a relatively minor one even if he had seen it. Even Dune, which Lucas has also acknowledged as playing influence too, is pretty minor compared to other things, mostly influencing visual design like Tattoine's setting and minor nods like Han being a spice smuggler.

Wait. Would Imperial tech get fucked up by Minovsky Particles?

>>15061323
Probably not.

>>15061323

Would it matter? A Star Destroyer could just sit at range and spam fire in a saturation manner negating a lack of precision aiming entirely, while nothing in UC would be able to hit them because they have neither range, aim or the numbers. Even when it comes to the snubfighters in Star Wars they all have clear canopies and fight at visual range regardless of minovsky tech, so they can continue to fight by eye if need be if their aiming tech is knocked off. It'd just mean no missile locks, which they really only use for precision targeting on major targets like spaceships and stations regardless.

RIP Carrie Fisher ;_;

#Fuck2016

>>15061241
yea but it doesn't matter the logistics of starwars still outpaces 40k by leaps and bounds

>>15042050
>>15042114
Wait. You don't mean compared to, you mean as a Vs.? You're seriously alleging people 'constantly' try to compare Star Wars starfighters to Gundam mobile suits?

Woo lad, not around here they don't.

>>15061562
In all fairness to OP, that sort of vs. thread used to pop up here with some regularity pre-2010, which usually resulted in walls of text copypasta'd from spacebattles.com and, as also happened here, a segue into 40k & Star Trek.

Then again, 2010 was almost 7 years ago.

>>15061283
>>15061299
You want to see something really scary about the visuals in SW?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfAeNDDG3GQ

>>15061344
Have you ever seen any ship in SW fire at long range? All the ships battled like broadsides at close range. The only sci-fi where the ships had any kind of near real range fire was Babylon 5, the newer BSG and Legend of Galactic Heroes. And SW and ST tech is supposed to be higher than those.

The basic problem of this is it all comes down to plot. The ships can only move as fast or fire as far or take as much hits as the plot allows. Because the plot is made by a bunch of writers that have no sense of scale, no sense of weapon capabilities and no sense of physics. They're pulling everything out of their ass every time they write something up without thinking it through. Leaving stupid geeks to argue what they've seen on a screen to base all their views on.

So it's really up to the writers, to include their own interpretations and biases to end this out come.

>>15061651

That video is pretty awful. It assumes Lucas is directly responsible for all aspects of the franchise, which just isn't true. Darth Vader's design as we know it for instance has nothing to do with Lucas as is purely Ralph McQuarries' work. Design work that had nothing to do with Valerian et Laureline (the apparent inspiration in that video doesn't even resemble Vader), but which was inspired by samurai helms because he had an entirely different view of Vader from description than Lucas. Lucas loved the new design and completely rewrote Vader based on it to give the design more prominence.

The Millennium Falcon is another example. The original design is the Blockade Runner we see in the films and had to be changed last minute because it resembled something else that was coming out at the time (can't recall what). Lucas left the design entirely in the hands of ILM techs and had nothing to do with the new one. Those techs may have taken inspiration from the comic, but Lucas certainly didn't. I'm pretty sure they didn't either, because the design that film posits as inspiration isn't particularly alike it and because I'm pretty sure they have spoken about it and put it down to wanting a more visually unique design, so they went for something circular but asymmetrical.

Lucas hasn't paid royalties because he's never had to, not because he never wanted to. Taking inspiration from something doesn't require royalties. If it did, no work would ever come out, because Lucas is far from alone in doing so. He was willing, but Flash Gordon wasn't for sale, not too expensive.

Also, Vader wanted to bombard Hoth from orbit and several ships shoot at the two Death Stars from a far enough range that it suggests the ships have far greater range than any UC stuff.

>>15060972
Four. A star (filthy Clanners) is five mechs.

>>15061511
Not him, and I'm no fluff expert, but one thing worth bearing in mind is that 40K ships are also unspeakably vast- like, the average Imperium ship makes the Executor look like small fry, and even some of the smaller ships can be armed with weapons capable of destroying planets. They're designed like WW2 battleships except taken up to 11. The amount of damage they can take is obscene and their firepower output is ridiculous. And that's not even counting the presence of Astartes vessels- a boarding action by Space Marines would spell the instant death of any Empire vessel.

Now obviously, a lot of the outcome would depend on what universe the battle took place in. The Imperium translated to the SW universe would have a tough battle, though sheer manpower + presence of Space Marines would swing the tide in their favour. In the 40K universe, however, the Empire would be utterly crushed- mainly because the Imperium wouldn't be the only thing to worry about. Chaos warships are basically Imperial ships but even more OP, being as they are self-repairing, sometimes filled with space AIDS, occasionally nigh-on indestructible ghost ships and generally fucking terrifying (to say nothing of the unspeakable horror of a potential boarding action by a Chaos ship). Then there's the Eldar, whose technology is literally millennia ahead of anything in SW, and likewise the Tau, who are moderately less advanced but still at least comparable to the Empire in technology. Then there's the Tyranids, whose bio-ships number in the trillions and are constantly reproducing- and as if that wasn't bad enough, their ships are often absolutely massive, ridiculously tough and horrendously destructive, and on top of all that are virtually undetectable at long range due to being organic. Simply put, a SW Empire put into the 40K universe wouldn't last 5 minutes.

>>15064058

> average Imperium ship makes the Executor look like small fry

Isn't the average Imperium ship about a mile or two long? The Executor has had various official lengths to my knowledge, but even the smallest are like 5 miles or something stupid like that.

>>15064058
>the average Imperium ship makes the Executor look like small fry
That's a lie.

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>>15064122
Here is a chart from Starship Dimensions.
Keep in mind the ships from EVE online are even bigger.

>>15064221

That's not actually a particularly helpful chart since it gives no indication of how many of each ship there are. Is the top one a one off? Or are there hundreds of them in every fleet? Does it outnumber the smaller one?

>>15064058
This right here to be honest. Though to be honest if the IoM fought in star wars galaxy they wouldn't have ftl capabality assuming the warp doest exist there but if it did than IoM would kick the empires ass since SW galaxy warp would be super calm and serene as fuck so their ships would have all the advantages and none of the disadvantages of warp travel. While if the empire went to Milky Way their hyperdrives wouldnt be that effective since Milky way is uncharted territory which means no hyperspace lanes and limited ftl travel

>>15064244
It's Warhams 40k. If they wanted, they could have trillions of those Battleships in their fleet.

>>15064313

So they don't then? I might as well claim the Empire could have trillions of SSD given how easy it is for them to make Death Stars. They don't, but that doesn't appear to matter.

>>15064244
Well it's a battleship, and most games we see mostly lines of cruisers. So in best estimates there are probably a number of battleships around. But that destroyer, there have to be hundreds or thousands of them out there working in squadrons of 3 to 6 ships. An average battle group in 40K would likely have 4 to 6 cruisers escorted by 3 or 4 squadrons of destroyers so any where from 9 to 24 destroyers.
And for bigger fleet battles 1 or 2 battleships, 8 to 12 cruisers, with 4 to 10 destroyer squadrons.

Destroyers are always counted in squadrons because that is how they more effectively operate.

>>15042290
All new material produced by Lucas Arts through Del Rey or Marvel are the same canon as the TV shows and Films. Film novelizations also are canon.

>>15064122
Executor class SSDs average between 8 to 21 km long. They are considered "common" command starship in system or at least sector fleets.

Now remember, the Galactic Empire built the second Death Star in secret, said Death Star has about an area of 900 km in mass, the amount of material creating the smaller 160 km first Death Star is equivalent to the Empire mass producing 24 million plus Imperial class SDs.

The Empire can literally fuck the IoM in logistics very very hard.

>>15061692
The actual plan in the novel was Vader having his Death Squadron bombard the shield generator on Hoth from the outskirts/edge of the Hoth star system which is a range of several light minutes. The Empire's tech is nothing to scoff at.

>>15061286

From what he says in the A New Hope interview, he got most of the Japanese influence from watching unsubtitled Kurosawa films in college. He didn't really understand the plot outside of what a Japanese friend could tell him was happening, but he understood the storytelling being used.

>>15064795
Commentary, not Interview

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>>15064313
No they cant, and dont. when it come down to large shit like ships and old tech weapons the imperium has very little of these things compared to their other ship and can maintenance and restock them even less.

Then you have to take into acount manning these things which takes tens of thousands per ship considering how retarded their crap is run and they have no AI support of any kind asside from the most basic of shit.

Then you have to arm them, maitnence them which can only be done by select individuals, and then you finally have to get astropaths to use ftl and those are in very short supply.

And all of this can go kaput with one crappy warp jump of flicker of its shields.

Oh and they can only be made on select few planets and take a few years to construct and man each

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>>15064767
The Death Star is a joke when it comes to logistics, all that size and mass to kill a planet. And it's blown up with appalling ease.

Now consider the Chaos fleet's planet killer, just a bit larger than a battleship, and the thing can take a pounding.

>>15058809
That's like saying it doesn't matter that an Abrams having a 120mm gun shouldn't matter against a bunch of Panzer IV's.

>>15064929
At that kind of rate the Imperium would have collapsed long ago due to opposition from out side forces like Chaos, Orks, Dark Eldar, Tyrannids, and Necrons.
The fact that the Imperium has been able to hold off these forces, thanks in some part to Eldar interference. All this say the Imperium has far greater resources and logistics than what the fluff says.

>>15065373

I have no idea what that means. Regardless, the point is Star Wars does have a Lancer equivalent in converging beam lasers. Or possibly just heavy turbolasers, since there are regular turbolasers as well as heavy ones.

>>15065359
>And it's blown up with appalling ease.
The Death Star was literally an inside job.

Wouldn't those magic particles Gundam engines shit render the radars of most star wars tech useless?

>>15065399
Star Wars don't use radar dumbass.

>>15065359

> look it up
> it's probably about 6 miles long
> and it only took a little less than 150 years to build
> and an additional few years to man
> defeated twice in a dozen battles over a decade or so of existence
> so easy to construct they only ever built one of them
> even when it was destroyed

Yea, they're really winning that logistics war alright.

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>>15058414
>HFW

>>15065359
>Chaos/IoM need entire fleets of their heaviest warships in numbers of dozens or more to raze a planet's surface
>Blackstone Fortresses were created by a super race (not the IoM)
>it takes it an hour to destroy a planet not instantly like the Death Star
>Warp travel inferior to Hyperspace travle
Yeah sure thing buddy.

>>15065376
No it doesn't. Overall fluff in 40k tells us that the IoM is decaying and losing its systems and planets without being able to reverse the tide. Every time the IoM's navy, Titan legions, etc...lose a major warship or Titan, they can't replace them.

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Bitches don't know about my Base Delta Zero.

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>>15065860
Anyone here play Empire at War/Forces of Corruption? What's the best mod and why is it Republic at War or Absolute Corruption?

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>>15065359

Dude if we go into stupid EU shit...

>>15042050
I find it hard to believe gundams couldn't fuck up warships

>>15065860

Is that even in anything canon anymore?

>>15065987

Well when said warships can accelerate and travel hundreds, maybe even thousands of times faster than Gundams, have energy shielding, FTL and dozens of guns as well as being ten times the size of anything in Gundam it's not actually that difficult to conceive. Which is without mentioning the fighter screen they can deploy, which again, accelerates and travels way faster than anything in Gundam.

>>15066024
Base Delta Zero is mentioned twice in Rebels.

>>15066033

Really? I take it Thrawn is responsible for at least one mention? I've seen the first two seasons but can't recall it. Shows how much attention I'm paying I guess.

>>15066024
Yes. Movie novelizations are still canon and RoTS talks about BDZ early during the fleet battle over Coruscant.

>>15065359
The original shoots for Star Wars and the plan was to have four Trench runs; Luke would make two runs; the first would be computer guided and fail and the second is the one we all know. They got spliced together in editing to save runtime and make the film flow better, but the point is that the only reason Luke could make the shot was the Force helping him. If Luke wasn't there, the attack would have failed even if they had four times as many fighters because it was essentially an impossible shot.

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>>15048011

On that note I bought the Star Wars Vehicles Cross Section's book the other day because I saw it going for a steal (a fiver or something) and loved the Droid Guide I bought years ago. I was looking at it earlier and I while I used to think Macross vehicles, at least by Frontier were their match speed wise I'm starting to think otherwise after looking at the guide.

Pic related. It seems to be mostly Prequel Era stuff that's rated for atmospheric speed or maximum G, but their stats are fairly outrageous. And this is the low end of the ones I saw. A maximum g-force possible of 5, 000? A VF-29 can only handle 62 before it overloads the air frame (I presume that's only for prolonged periods, since some turns will far exceed that), at least in atmosphere. In space it'd have to get a nearly 100 fold improvement in space just to match that. And the VF-29 can only go about 4, 500 mph in atmosphere, with higher speeds possible for brief periods using the pin point barrier but this can double that. I've seen some stuff mention Star Wars ships too can get a brief atmospheric boost to maximum speed using their shields, so it might be possible for them too.

Mind you, it's not as much an issue in the case of Macross as it would be for Gundam, since Macross ships not only have a clear agility advantage, but their targeting software is probably capable of at least partially bridging that gap. Most of all though, their offensive strength far exceeds even Star Wars thanks to super dimension guns and dimension eater weaponry. Star Wars needs a station the size of a moon to blow up a planet - Macross can do it with a bomb. And even if you stick to earlier entries super dimension guns negate shields for the most part and just fuck everything up.

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>>15069204

Posting a few other cross sections with stats for speed and g I found online for the sake of it.

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>>15069209

The atmospheric speed on this is especially boggling. 27, 000m/ph. That's batshit.

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>>15069216

And then this one is even faster at nearly 38,000 m/ph. You could probably cross a planet in a few minutes with that. I don't even recall this ship. Was it even in the films? It was probably in the Clone Wars episodes on Utapau, but it must have been in the films. It certainly couldn't have a big role though.

>>15061147

I'm not sure why people keep mentioning the ship issues. Star Wars has never really been determined by ship-to-ship combat, it's been determined by ground battles and Jedi.

So what's the Jedi analogue for 40K? Well, it's people like Inquisitor Eisenhorn. Eisenhorn actually wields a power sword at one point, and eventually ends up like Darth Vader. But what's really unfair is that the next step up from an Inquisitor is a Space Marine Librarian, and there's no way a Jedi can take that on. Darth Vader is at a disadvantage versus a typical Space Marine Librarian, for instance.

The main problem is that in 40K, the Imperium exists in a state of total war. They're also intimately familiar with psykers, and have a load of gear to deal with them. There is a fair argument that Palpatine is a subtle Alpha-level psyker, but the Grey Knights are used to fighting and killing people like him. They do so regularly. In fact, Space Marines are used to fighting daemons, of which Star Wars uses sparingly if at all - there are some Dark Side emanations that might be like daemons, but they don't seem to be as physically inclined and as outright malicious. (I mean, I don't remember any Dark Side creation that looked like a Balrog and could carve tanks in half.)

The last problem is the Force/Warp analogue. Is the Force the Warp, or is the Warp the Force? Because if Force-users had to deal with the inherently malicious Warp, corruption becomes a real problem. Conversely, a 40K-era psyker who doesn't have to deal with the Warp (but the rather more neutral Force) just received a massive power boost simply from not having the risk of exploding into daemons.

>>15069342
I am of the opinion that if a psyker fought in Star Wars galaxy than either he has no powers due to lack of warp or his powers would work without any fear of backlash since Star Wars galaxy warp would be stable since there are no chaos gods.

>>15069342
>Star Wars has never really been determined by ship-to-ship combat.
Please stop being so ignorant.
>People like Inquisitor
Average Inquisitors aren't as combat trained or confirmed psykers.
>No way a Jedi can take that on.
Wrong. Even a shit tier incompetent Jedi in the old canon could TK and block blasts from hypersonic sharpnel and explosions at point blank. You don't have a clue with what Force-Users can do.

And are massively overrating the ability and powers of Space Marines in general. You sound like the typical dumb-ass power level obsessed 40k fag. Not only that, but as someone who definitively follows both 40k and both old and new EU in Star Wars for over 22 years I can tell you calling Palpatine a mere "alpha level" psyker is retarded because he casually fucking created the shroud of darkness that permanently disabled the long range premoitonins, prescience, and clairvoyance of the entire Jedi Order for decades.

You honestly need to stop talking out of your ass. Also the Force is universal, the Warp is limited to the milky way galaxy.

>>15069566
*premonitions

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>>15069566
Fanboi much? Regular jedi are pretty shit tier since Jango Fett gunned down a bunch with a literal hand gun. Space marines have bolters, meta, plasma and all sorts of shit an average jedi can't deflect. Also average psykers can perform feats equal to strong force users like Dooku and Maul with ease. Super strong psykers can mind rape entire planets and smash titans to scrap.

>>15069583
There it is, the typical knee-jerk reaction of a 40kfag in action. Please keep bullshitting from ignorance.

>>15069566
You know as someone who loves both Star Wars and 40k I have to agree that that the average 40k fan is pretty cringe inducing. Then again its a given when most of the fanbase thinks the IoM can take on the Xelee or Culture so it goes with the territory.

>>15069204
>negate shields
In theory dimensional barriers like the one deployed by the Vajra Queen could block a Macross Cannon.

But everything else that ain't dimensional fuckery will just disappear in the face of the Macross Cannon firing at that.

>>15069597
Not an argument. Sad!

>>15069649
B8 harder pls.

>>15069653
It isn't dumbass. Stop fucking treating every jedi in the universe is as strong as Obi-wan, Anakin, Sheev and Yoda. WH40K is far from the strongest setting but to say Jedi are equal to Space marines is beyond retarded.

>>15069677
You are still arguing from ignorance. Neat.

>>15069677
You know that I already covered even low level Force-Users possessing vastly superhuman reactions, durability, and powers above and beyond the keen of the average Psyker or Space Marine for that matter. Funny thing about Psykers, retard kun, is that their powers aren't universal in terms of abilities unlike Force-Users.

Some Psykers can only use TK, some are telepaths, others might just be empaths, others might be able to manipulate cyrokinesis or pyrokinesis, or possess low level forms of prescience. Force-Users have standard skillsets including TK, telepathy, empathy, precognition, clairvoyance, scrying, and so on.

Fucking Plagueis casually bleed Force energy and far from his prime when showing up on Naboo that his mere presence made the planet's temperature drop. You really over-rate Astartes and Psykers but fuck huge margins and have probably most likely never read a single EU/Legends novel or comic for your life.

>>15069677
Not every Space Marine is Sigismund or Dante either, mate. Or every Psyker on par with Magnus, the GEoM or Malcador. A scrub Jedi Knight subconsciously had zero issue reacting to a lightspeed laser at close range when his companion told him to just let the Force augment his reactions.

EU Force-Users are nothing to fuck with.

>>15069714

When has Star Wars used light speed lasers?

>>15069739
Read some novels. Because the laser in question is an actual laser and not a blaster. Just like in 40k, there are dozens of different weapon types besides blasters like plasma weapons, particle beams, disruptors, flechettes, slugthrowers, etc...

>>15069750

I'm not the guy you're arguing about W40k with, and while I haven't read any EU stuff in about a decade at this point I have read a dozen or two of them along with some comics and games and while I know there are heat weapons, concussion weapons, vibro weapons, ion weapons and so on - I don't recall any actual lasers. Which is why I ask about it.

>>15069710
Yeah I have read the non-canon EU and most of the bullshit feats are done by Luke and friends. The average telekinetic space marine librarian is more than capable of crushing a tank with his mind the average Jedi struggles to life a human. Also not every jedi can do every single force related power either dumbass.
>>15069714
Never said that in the first place. I said average space marines/psykers were better than average jedi. An average Space Marine could beat Jango Fett an average Jedi could not.

>>15069765
You haven't read much of EU if you think its related solely to the OT cast.
>crush a tank
The average high tier Force-User can fuck over entire planet's pretty easily.
>Never said that in the first place
Please don't lie so blatantly.
>average space marines/psykers are better than average Jedi
Wrong.

>>15069765
>Also not every jedi can do every single force related power.
Not what they said. Standard abilities for Force-Users are telekinesis, telepathy, empathy, precognition, and clairvoyance. Psykers do not have that uniformity, Force-Users do. Special abilities are like Force Drain, Force Destruction, Force Travel, Force Storms, which only certain people have.
>non-canon EU
Its Legend canons, in EU that means its part of the same continuity and still canon to itself, just not Disney canon/continuity. Vitiate being shown to be able to eat an entire galaxy is also above anything the GEoM could ever do.
>Average space marine/psykers were better than average jedi.
They aren't. Already covered that in an earlier post by showing they have no issue dealing with lightspeed attacks at close range, nanoseconds being considered "slow" in terms of reaction time to them, and the ability to augment their physical abilities for increased strength, durability, and speed.
>Average Space Marine could beat Jango Fett
Doubtful.png
>average Jedi could not
Wrong. Hell, the Ones would ass-ream the entire 40k universe since WoG from Chee himself states the Son and Daughter being literal manifestations of both the light side and dark side confirmed they would destroy the entire universe and the Father had to remove them from the material universe just to safeguard reality from their battle to a higher dimension.

And that part is still canon in Disney Star Wars. Stay mad, kiddo.

>>15069765
Most of Legends/EU i.e. pre-Disney fluff is pretty evenly divided between OT, PT, and pre-PT eras. Some of the best feats and showings come from the ancient era i.e. pre-Bane period (5000-1000 years earlier) then Luke and Anakin/Vader's time but top tier Force Users get that via powerscaling.

Vitiate being shown in a vision to eat an entire galaxy, ancient Sith corrupting entire planets and eating entire races, magical artificats blowing up multiple star systems, you are really not aware it seems that EU shows that top tier and high tiers, hell even mid tier and average level Force-Users are fucking nuts for a reason.

Hell its confirmed the majority of the reason why Order #66 was successful is because Sidious is so OP power level wise that it was because of his shroud of darkside and the Jedi's increasing reliance on the Clones that enabled him to block their precognitive powers which allowed them to surprise and murder the Jedi.

And plenty of EU stuff shows Clones are well above normal humans as well.

>>15069765
>most of the bullshit feats are done by Luke
Confirmed to be lying through your teeth, dudester.

>>15069777
An a average high level psyker can wipe out all life on a planet and face greater daemons.
>>15069787
Yeah and not every jedi force powers are on a level that can harm a space marine.
And that lightspeed feat you mentioned is pure bullshit. Also the God Emperor can stop time and erase people from existence both body and soul. You are the mad one mouse cocksucker
>>15069795
"Via powerscaling" are you fucking kidding me? Your head canon is not canon my friend.

>>15069812
>and average high level psyker
Mainly through sorcery or Chaos bullshit rituals, not through general pure power.
>not every jedi force powers are on a level that can harm a space marine.
Correct, they far exceed those levels. A chainsword can fuck up a Space Marine, a lightsaber is excessively well above power and force weapons which are > chainswords or gladius weapons.
>powerscaling
If you are bitching about this then you are truly as retarded as the average 40k baby I expected you to be. Bravo.

>>15069812
Last I checked a Space Marine still can die from having their organs pulped, decapitation, bifurcation, being bisected, or dismembered. Not even the other anons from before but even in the "height" of the IoM's power during the Great Crusade before the events of HH, Astartes have been killed by mortals simply by possessing advanced weapons that can bypass or overwhelm their armor. Mortals who are nowhere close to Force-Users.

>>15069812
>God Emperor can stop time
Those early as shit BL books are pretty much non canon. Just like the Inquisitor one with squats and shit about how the average SM can't fight daemons for long periods without going insane or corrupted.

Try again faggot.

>Lightspeed feat you mentioned is pure bullshit.
Nope.

>>15069828
>A mousketeer calling anyone baby
What part of an average librarian is more powerful than an average jedi can't your stupid ass comprehend? An average telekinetic librarian can crush a tank with his mind, an average telepathic librarian can mind rape half an army an average biomancer librarian makes force lightning look like a defibulator and a pyromancer librarian could melt a jedi to ash.

>>15069839
Why does everyone in this thread think that every jedi is a Anakin or Yoda or Obi-Wan for that matter? Most jedi can't do nearly the shit the important ones do did you guys even watch the movies?

>>15069846
>What part of
Your bullshit no one is buying? All of it.
>Mousketeer
Enjoying being continually jewed out by GW, faggot. Nothing you posted is remotely impressive.
>melt to ash
That's not how vaporization works either. Force-Users can manipulate matter on an atomic level to build holocrons and their lightsaber crystals and atomize people with blasts of the Force.

You aren't impressing anyone still.

>>15069854
Why does everyone in this thread think that every psyker/librarian/space marine is GEoM, Magnus, Dante/Logan Grimgar/Ragnar/Venatus for that matter? Most psykers/space marines can't do nearly the shit the important do did you guys even read the books?

>>15069857
You are fucking lying out of your ass now. Manipulate matter on an atomic level, atomize people really I mean come on.

>>15069846
>>15069854
Why are you namefagging now? Not retarded enough being an aspie without a name?

>>15069862
Nope.

>>15069861
Most feats that anon listed is what average Librarians can do. Average jedi can barely lift a human much less atomize someone with the force lol.

>>15069862
You clearly really haven't read any of the comics or novels.
>>15069870
Most feats that anon listed isn't what average Libarians can do. Average Jedi can blast entire cityblocks and hit someone with a Force blast so greatly even forensics teams can't find blood because of the level of vaporization leaves no physical evidence.

>>15069862
>>15069870
(You) really should go back to /v/ with the other 40k cocksuckers.

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>thread turns to shit as soon as the Warhammer fanboy starts posting
What a TWIST!

>>15069710

But that doesn't make sense, does it? The Force is generally a nebulous kind of thing, and Jedi typically perform superhuman feats that don't have flashy 'special effects'. For instance, being able to shoot Force Lightning is a massive thing in the 'verse. But for 40K, most psykers tend to do things like turn people inside out, set them on fire, and so on.

I mean, I'm not saying that Jedi are weak, but they're unaugmented humans. They're clearly using the human baseline stat of 3s across the board. However, they're all armed with the equivalent of Master-Crafted Power Weapons, an Invulnerable Save and the ability to use telekinesis and other psyker disciplines.

Meanwhile, a Space Marine Librarian has 4s across the board, a Force Weapon (which is superior to a Power Weapon) or the equivalent of a Lightsaber at the very least. It's not an exaggeration to say that Space Marines are superhuman.

Like, Vader himself doesn't have the raw physical capabilities of a Space Marine. He's a crippled man with massive Force powers, the equivalent of a high-master Psyker with a master-crafted weapon, good armor save and bionics.

Meanwhile, daemons have better raw stats.

>>15070070
Debating with mousketeers will get you nowhere when the fanbois in this thread claim jedi can atomize people and manipulate matter and shit. Star Wars is my favourite science fantasy universe but I am not going to lie and make up stuff for it. Star Wars works much better with a lower "powerlevel" anyway. Shit like Vitiate and Starkiller ruined the EU and I am glad its noncanon now.

>>15070070
>>15070096
Nice (You) faggot.

>>15042050
Dark Age isn't canon in the least bit. Turn A gundam would be completely shit on by a TIE Interceptor or a X-Wing

>>15071236

Dark Age sounds like the pre-series background war in AGE? Black History is presumably what you and OP are referring too, and it is actually canon. It's referred to several times in the show and there's video footage of it. What may or may not be canon is the Black History Turn-A where it can warp beams, Moonlight Butterfly out to Jupiter and so on. I don't know whether or not it is canon, but I certainly don't see it as the same unit as the one in the show personally.

That said, Black History Turn-A isn't the only space-faring Gundam, since the epilogue in 00 shows humanity spreading out in to the wider galaxy using deep space exploration ships and ELS/Innovator hybrids.

I would also say that the animation Turn-A actually stands a chance against a TIE Fighter/Interceptor/Advanced, X-Wing or whatever, since while it is orders of magnitude slower it can turn invisible, has at least two different types of energy shielding, can take a hell of a pounding even from beam weapons and most importantly has an AOE in the Moonlight Butterfly. An all range attack with no gaps that can eat energy shielding and technology like the Moonlight Butterfly does actually stand a chance against even something much, much faster just because the speed doesn't serve any real advantage when there's no gaps in attack to take advantage of.

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Ideon beats both

>>15042265
It does matter asshole cause it's 2 completely different things

>>15071785
You are super retarded.