This was a genuinely awful movie. Did anyone actually like this?

>>15026165
YOU BELONG TO ME

>>15026165

I give it a 10/10 personally. The plot moved at the right pace and was engaging, it concluded all the important themes Tomino had been building up with the franchise until then. It concluded Amuro and Char's arcs in a strong and bittersweet way. The mech porn was amazing, and the soundtrack and animation were amazing. I suppose the only thing that would have been nice was if it was a bit longer so Kaira could have been developed more.

>>15026193
>It was perfect and the pacing was perfect except the part that wasn't perfectly paced and made it not perfect.

2nd worst gundam entry after
Absolutely hated it.

>>15026221
Oh man, Gundam Absolutely was AWFUL.

>>15026221
Even incomplete, I can tell this was turning into a Zeta hatepost.

it gave us nu gundam and beyond the time so it gets a pass in my eyes

>>15026197

I never said the pacing was perfect. Nor is 10/10 perfect, since no such thing exists it isn't on the scale for me. Also not being the right length is different from a pacing issue.

>>15026165
>Did anyone actually like this?
Anno.

>>15026197
What's wrong with the pacing. It's unconfortably fast but I think it contributes to the general atmosphere of the movie that is, well, uncomfortable.
Still I don't think it interferes with the natural flow of events.

>>15026165
6/10 movie that could have been an 8 or even a 9 if they cut out the kids, brought back Sayla, focused on Char/Amuro throughout and gave it better animation.

I still like it though.

>>15026473
>plotfags
>animationfags

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>>15026193
Char should have just been in ZZ. Fucking hell. I just watched the scene with Bright and Sayla mass for the first time recently talking about how char is still around some where. It sets up the movie ok but it still feels a bit cheap.

>>15026495
I've read bits of the "Original ZZ" script. Personally I find CCA to be more engaging plot wise. I also think that Char's arc concludes in a more fitting way in CCA than it would have otherwise.

>>15026506
Well let me revise that. I just wish ZZ bridged the gap better. Like including a scene showing Char and foreshadowing whats to come, instead of two characters exposing about him. I mean its just such an open ended thing from a series at odds with itself. Its no wonder Tomino was like JUST FUCK IT Neo-zeon civil war right now.

>>15026221
>Gundam Absolutely
Fund it !

>>15026486
Yeah the only thing that matters in a movie is the music, obviously. It's not like you can just buy the soundtrack or anything.

>>15026518

Yeah, ZZ is a very odd show. It has allot of good stuff in the second arc. But not much is really done with it when considered all together, nor does it really fit in with the rest of Tomino's early Gundam stuff. The mech porn is great at least.

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>>15026541
I've heard that the first half wasn't even directed by tomino and was trying to appeal to kids but then the ratings tanked and they begged tomino to take control which is why I feel like there is a crazy tonal shift at around the time the sister "dies".

>>15026527
Good music that is not suited for the tone of the show is simply good music.
Amimation that is simply of good quality without complementing the story is just useless.
You might have found the animation below par but it's good in a sense that the characters cut realistic figures, carry their weight, are energetic and physically expressive and move around and physically interact with their surroundins in their characteristic ways. Rather than simply looking good or bad animation has to express something that couldn't have been expressed simply through dialogue or music etc.
I've always found something like this to be the strongest part of Tomino's direction.

>>15026473
Wait, what's wrong with the animation? I liked it.

>>15026573
It's a myth. ZZ was entirely directed by Tomino and its first half is very similar in tone to what he did before, notably Xabungle et L-Gaim.

>>15026612

https://youtu.be/WaKunz8NY54

Yeah, IMO this looks pretty great,

>>15026573
>sister "dies"
What the fuck was the point of that anyway?

>>15026573
I don't know. The first half of ZZ if fairly typical "fun" Tomino, though you could say that was just the standard for comedy in the 80s. Still I think he has some pretty distinctive features.

>>15026588
>woosh

08th MS Team
0083
CCA
The holy trinity of shitty troll theads.

>>15026640
Thanks for the constructive comment.

>>15026165
OP Mobile Suit Gundam 0080: War in the Pocket is the worst gundam shows of all time

>>15026165
>This was a genuinely awful movie.

No it isn't. It has great production values, and a fitting ending to the Amuro-Char relationship that's inline with Gundam 0079. Some characters are idiots, but then you can find them in any Gundam series so it isn't really a demerit of this specific film.

>Did anyone actually like this?

Yes, I like it. But then I realise it's the definitive conclusion to the OYW. Those that hate this film hate it because somehow it doesn't feel right between Zeta and ZZ as if the UC wasn't full of idiotic retconnings induced by power hungry toy companies.

>They're probably drug induced or simply deluding themselves.

Actually those that hate this film or those on drug induced or deluding themselves. Never accepting the fact that Zeta is irrelevant to this film. And that Gundam 0079 + CCA is a coherent narrative whole that doesn't need neither Zeta nor ZZ to make sense. It's fine all on its own.

>>15026710
>never accepting the fact that Zeta is irrelevant to this film
This meme needs to die.

>>15026221

Gundam Absolutely 0091 was pretty bad, but probably equal to CCA

>>15026222
>>15026524
>>15026724
Alright, "Mobile Suit Gundam 0091: Absolutely". What is it ? What is it about ? Who are the main characters ? We need to have answers !

>>15026727
Maybe something like Stardust Memory. Something to describe the exact events that led to the establishment of Londo Bell. When did that happen anyway? To be fair just ZZ is probably enough but I guess there would be enough people that would disagree.

>>15026740
So in 0091, Char just re-appeared, Absolutely deals with the beginning of Londo Bell as they are criminaly understaffed and without the glory of the former veterans. The meager crew tries to spy Neo Zeon and guess their objectives with a ragtag of old Zeta and ZZ mobile suits and ships?
Protag is a young Londo Bell pilot I suppose. The events described in Absolutely serves as a transition between ZZ and CCA.

>>15026745
Since the ReGZ was developped in 0091, I think it makes a logical main suit or secondary suit.

>>15026506

Mind sharing where I can read this original ZZ script?

>>15026747
>>15026745
>>15026740

I'd watch it

>>15026749
>>15021042

>>15026714
>This meme needs to die.

It's not a meme, simply the truth. UC Gundam fans are buthurt each time someone points out the discrepancies of their canon timeline. They cannot deal with the existence of several alternate continuities within the same timeline.
As I said most gundam-fags hate this film because it contradicts Zeta and doesn't really fit in between Zeta and ZZ. And that is anathema to them. You can see the same level of buthurt when we talk about the Zeta Gundam film trilogy. So spare me the "meme needs to die" bullshit.

>>15026714
It's not a meme, it's a headcanon made by Western zetarangers

>>15026778
What discrepancies? How does it not fit?

>>15026781
This distinction is irrelevant.

>>15026710
>>15026778
While I agree in parts, it's silly to say that CCA contradicts Zeta.

I don't see why it is so hard for people to understand that, by the end of the Gryps Conflict, Char was utterly demoralized and had no faith that earthnoids would get over their problems and improve, hence the extreme come CCA. Char was never really "a good guy", those that watch Zeta and feel that way simply because he is on the protagonist's side lack knowledge of basic storytelling techniques.

>>15026798
At least you had the decency to put it in quotation marks but what do you even mean by "a good guy".
Do you think that is the purpose of storytelling?
To separate people in "good" and "bad"? That it is inconsistency if one character is portrayed as "good" at one point and "bad" at another? That portraying a "bad guy" on the side of "good guys" is simply some sort of narrative trick?

>>15026810
I meant exactly what I wrote. Char was depicted in the "good guys" side, the protagonists; AEUG, fighting against a governmental organ gone extremely corrupt and such. He is close to the main character, Kamille, even acting as a mentor to the boy. He somewhat reconciles with former enemies and acts somewhat differently from what one might expect.

All these things might fool someone into thinking "Oh! Char redeemed himself! He's a good guy now, nice!". Truth of the matter is, while certainly not archetypically "bad", the man surely is not "good". That is why some people get that whiplash feeling when watching CCA - "What? Wasn't he with the good guys in Zeta? What happened?".

Char might have been acting "for the greater good" in Zeta, but his ulterior motives were always there. And, in fact (this one I can't assert with complete certainty since it has been a while since I watched both Zeta and CCA, so forgive me), his CCA motivations are the same ones he's been carrying in the other series.

>Do you think that is the purpose of storytelling?
No, the purpose of storytelling is to tell a story.

> That it is inconsistency if one character is portrayed as "good" at one point and "bad" at another?
No, that was rather the opposite of what I said. I was simply pointing out that I feel it is ridiculous that people feel that way and, at least to me, Char's entire character arc makes perfect sense.

Hope I made myself clear now, cheers.

>>15026752
You sure? After all, it's the worst gundam entry...
Also >>15026864

>>15026827
What people complain regarding CCA Char aren't his core motivations (people should leave Earth) - his big speech in Zeta even references that.

The issue is his sudden rush to make that come true. He disappears from the political scene after giving a single speech, then suddenly returns a few years later already decided to forcefully destroy Earth without even trying a political path at all before leading his own Neo Zeon. It just seems forced to place him in an antagonist role again.

If he had tried to do something and felt greatly betrayed at his efforts having no effect, his change in attitude would be understandable, but that's not the case. He sit at home for years without doing anything and then decided to destroy Earth because other people also did nothing.

Heck, his passive behavior in those years is so odd, you don't see even any side story covering that period since it'd be really hard to make sense of his actions before he reappears to lead Neo Zeon.

>>15026749
>Mind sharing where I can read this original ZZ script?
here on>>15026761

>>15026875
>making the right connections
>establishing yourself in the right circles
>gathering support
>raising funds
>research
etc. etc.
How long do you think this takes? A week. Char is pretty popular but he is not a wizard.

>>15026827
I see what you mean and I don't disagree.

I just don't approve of using categories like "good" or "bad" even as a matter of simplification.
Values are subjective. People are by nature not very good at analytical thinking and we are prone to making logical fallacies when making a moral judgement.
A concept is the combined and organised knowledge we have of something. If our knowledge of something is limited then we will only associate it with one or two prominent traits. Since humans tend to also evaluate all information they receive morally if they found those traits negative their overall appraisal of the object will be negative. Thereafter all further information we receive about that object may be examined in light of our initial assessment and and judged as negative or if we receive information we interpret as positive this might lead to cognitive dissonance. This is exactly what is happening to fans.

The irony this is the just sort of thing the story warns against. That part is what around this places is jokingly dubbed UNDERSTANDING.

There is nothing wrong with that sort of thinking of course. It developed evolutionary because it contributed to our survival.

The clincher is what you do when you get to the cognitive dissonance part. You might chose to ignore the conflicting information. Or if you are aware of the subjective nature of moral judgement you might thing "Wait, what if my initial assessment was wrong. Let's think this over."

>>15026827
For example if you say:
>Char is not necessarily a "good guy"
,you could mean:
>just because he has exhibited several traits you personally consider positive it doesn't mean he can't have traits that you would consider negative
The opposite is also true:
>just because he has exhibited several traits you personally consider negative it doesn't mean he can't have traits that you would consider positive
This could be said not only about Char but about every other character, every other living or not living thing.
But a lot of people would interpret a statement like this like:
>just because he did something good once it doesn't mean he is not bad
which is a completely different thing. And some of them even come up with things like "Then he must have been merely pretending." or alternatively "This just makes no sense. Zeta is
irrelevant." which in terms of resolving the cognitive dissonance means completely rejecting any conflicting information.

That is not even just a conflict that arises between different entries. CCA even by itself is riddled with contradictions which people either choose to ignore and misinterpret or cite as a weakness of the movie rather than the good characterization that it is.

It's not a matter of having knowledge of basic storytelling. It's more about basic emotional intelligence.
If you don't like something it's much easier to say "because it's bad" and leave it at that than think about how the problem arose in the first place. Of course this sort of thing is understandable when your knowledge is limited - everyone wants to protect themselves. In an unfamiliar situation you never know what might happen. That's why it's important to gain perspective into other people's worldview.

Or something.

>>15027254
>I just don't approve of using categories like "good" or "bad" even as a matter of simplification.
too bad
in Zeta gundam AUEG are the good guys and everybody else are the bad guys

>>15026778

There is nothing contradictory between CCA and Zeta. The closest thing to a contradiction between the two is that " In Zeta Char is a good guy, and in CCA Char is a bad guy". If the concept of a character being on one side of a conflict in one entry and on another side in another conflict is beyond someone then they should still be watching shows meant for the under 10 crowd, not Gundam.

>>15026875
His work with the AEUG was his attempt. once that failed he decided that he would go full space nazi. Given that Char was never exactly a sane person, and was always short sighted to begin with ( just look at how he influenced Katz in Zeta), it isn't a big stretch for him to do something drastic like that. He was always a charismatic loose cannon.

>>15027254
The AEUG are "protagonists" and the Titans are "antagonists". We can do away with talk of good and bad and still keep the meaning. The audience is meant to root for and identify with the AEUG more than with the Titans. Char was a protagonist in Zeta, but ends up as the prime antagonist side in CCA.

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I particularly enjoyed this scene

>>15027755
>never exactly a sane person
That is a loaded statement.
>and was always short sighted to begin with
Having negative expectations is not the same thing as lacking foresight.
>the audience is meant to root for and identify with the AEUG more than with the Titans
This is the very mindset that I disagree with.

>>15027254
>>15027266
Eh, I get what you're saying regarding the terms, but I feel like it ends up being just semantics.

Still, thanks for the discussion. I agree on most other things you said, at least on a fundamental level.

>>15027839
I don't see what it has to do with semantics. It doesn't matter if you call it "good" and "bad" or "right" and "wrong" or "green" and "blue".
What I'm saying is "Don't make a moral judgement if you don't have enough information" though even that is wrong since people can't help making a moral judgement and there is no such thing as enough information.
It's more like "Understand that your moral judgement is not absolute and it could change as new information comes in."

>>15027816
>>the audience is meant to root for and identify with the AEUG more than with the Titans
>This is the very mindset that I disagree with.
you disagree with the creators of the robot toy commercial cartoon making them the main characters good guys?

>>15027915
I disagree with "adult" people on this board using this level of reasoning when judging complex human behavior.

>>15027923
>judging complex human behavior.
we're not
we're judging the behavior of fiction characters in cartoons which is rarely complex
cartoons aren't real

usuallly gundamfags accept anyshit, for them to something be bad, it must be another level of bad for normal people.

>>15027965
If you fail to understand a simple cartoon I'd like to see how you deal with real people.

Of course not caring about real people that you know mostly nothing about is even easier than not caring about fictional character specifically designed to invoke your sympathy.

>>15027923

You know, you'd have a point if the Titans were actually nuanced and not consistently portrayed as mustache-twirling jackbooted thugs.

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>>15027981
They did nothing wrong

>>15027981
But they really really needed to gas millions of people! C'mon, just once (ok twice)!

>>15027978
AEUG are good guys
Titans are bad guys
what in the literal fuck are you even babbling about

>>15027992

Titans were the good guys, Jamitov was going to restore the Earth.

>>15027981
Consistently?
>>15027988
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

>>15027992
I know nothing of a person named AEUG or a person named Titans.

>>15028005

he was the last hope really

http://www9.atpages.jp/~gihren/pukiwiki/index.php?%E3%82%B8%E3%83%A3%E3%83%9F%E3%83%88%E3%83%95%E3%83%BB%E3%83%8F%E3%82%A4%E3%83%9E%E3%83%B3%EF%BC%88%E3%83%86%E3%82%A3%E3%82%BF%E3%83%BC%E3%83%B3%E3%82%BA%EF%BC%89

>>15027988
generic meme

>>15027923
>complex human behavior.
Since when is "good guys in giant robots versus bad guys in giant robots" complex

Just enjoy it dude

>>15028027

Yes, consistently, as an organisation.

Would you like me to provide a definition of the word?

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dude you should hang with them they party like crazy, there was this one time Titans hot boxed this colony up and we were like woah
captcha: nazionale blacktown

>>15028045
>>15028030
I mean, Titans and AEUG
they're really wild
sage for 2xpost

>>15028037
Since autistic people have long-winded arguments about inconsistent characterization on children's image boards.

>>15028041
Oh,excuse me, I thought you meant consistently as individuals. How silly of me to care about individual human beings!

>>15028069

They aren't individual human beings. They're fictional characters in a cartoon.

Char doesn't have real thoughts. Char doesn't have complex motivations. Char is a cartoon character. Char does whatever the writer thinks will make the toy commercial better.

>>15028069

Well, one, they're not human. Two, the only other variety of character in the Titans is that of an emotional punching bag, and Jerid and his assorted partners hardly show any reluctance to be a part of an organisation that commits murder on a massive scale in the name of 'peace'.

>>15028095

It was all for the great cause of enacting the environmental reconstruction program.

Why are there so many people who are like "can I just watch the Zeta compilation movies to get to Char's Counterattack faster?"

Do they not know how fucking terrible this movie is?

>>15028075
Of course, fiction is not representative of reality in any way, and our stance on fictional ethical problems has nothing to do with our stance on real ethical problems because those are two completely different things.
Tomino just kept repeating the same themes in his works over and over and over and over for fifty years not because he was trying to tell something but because he wanted to sell more toys.

>>15028103
some people aren't watching these because they like to see robot cartoons, they just want that Gundam cheevo

>>15028103

i kinda wish it was just a complete 100% cut down of the original series nothing more. The fact that they even bothered with the new scenes just makes me sad, you either do it good or make it as blatant as much of a cash grab ever. I seriously cannot imagine the faces of the guys who test screened them.

>>15028106
>those are two completely different things.
yes
fiction and reality are completely different

>>15028108
The original trilogy of recap films are great. They reused footage but kept it in the same aspect ratio, and were nicely long. Only a few noteworthy things are left out.

With Zeta, these movies are so fucking short, and the show is longer, so there's even more stuff lost. Not to mention that they did the movie in widescreen (nobody does 1.33:1 movies anymore unless you are Wes Anderson), featuring terribly remastered footage next to new footage that looks completely different.

Oh yeah and Gackt music. Because that fits so spectacularly with everyone running around in bellbottoms and wraparound shades.

>>15028095
>emotional punching bag
I'm not familiar with the idiom but it sounds like something that should invoke sympathy.

>Jerid and his assorted partners hardly show any reluctance to be a part of an organisation that commits murder on a massive scale in the name of 'peace'
Didn't you mean:
Jerid and his assorted partners hardly show any reluctance in being useful members of society and meeting the expectations that have been set on them by their community by fulfilling the civil duties that they have been raised to believe they should fulfill thus placing their trust to make adequate decisions on matters that should be outside of the sphere of competence of the average person in the hands of the rightful authorities in exchange for acquiring the security and self-worth that are necessary to any human being.

>>15026573
Depression hits hard and at random times anon.

>>15028158
>Jerid and his assorted partners hardly show any reluctance in being useful members of society and meeting the expectations that have been set on them by their community by fulfilling the civil duties that they have been raised to believe they should fulfill thus placing their trust to make adequate decisions on matters that should be outside of the sphere of competence of the average person in the hands of the rightful authorities in exchange for acquiring the security and self-worth that are necessary to any human being.

...What in the nine circles of hell are you blabbering about? This is a cartoon made for children and salarymen, not a needlessly protracted character study.

Also I find it funny that you're essentially condoning mass murder because it's 'meeting expectations'.

>>15028114
And something can be produced out of nothing. This is a well-known law of physics, I think.

>>15026165
I love CCA for the great animation, and the Zeta-esque Tomino storytelling.

>>15028166
>Also I find it funny that you're essentially condoning mass murder because it's 'meeting expectations'.
Oh, well, I guess it's OK because fiction is not real life.

>>15028170

No, in both realms such an attitude is profoundly stupid, I think you'll find.

>>15028175
You people seem to understand sarcasm only when it's of advantage to you.
If you haven't noticed that's what I've been arguing for all this while.
If you have any strong feelings on the question tell them to
>>15028114
and
>>15028075
and
>>15028095 (Isn't that you? That's how the flow of the conversation seem to go.I get confused trying to argue with so many people at the same time.)

I'm not condoning mass murder but what is the point of saying "Mass murder is bad. If you do mass murder you are bad. You should not do mass murder." If you could stop mass murder like that there would be no mass murder. It's not like people actually like to do mass murder in the first place. If something bad is happening rather than passing the responsibility for it to other people isn't it better to understand why it is happening in the first place?

I just genocided twenty billion fictional children and their puppies.

>>15028215
Your drumpfkin levels are off the chart. Stop posting.

>>15028215
so how does that relate to the fact that AEUG are the good guys

>>15028270
Thanks for the well-argumented opinion.
>>15028276
It should?

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>>15027755
>There is nothing contradictory between CCA and Zeta. The closest thing to a contradiction between the two is that " In Zeta Char is a good guy, and in CCA Char is a bad guy". If the concept of a character being on one side of a conflict in one entry and on another side in another conflict is beyond someone then they should still be watching shows meant for the under 10 crowd, not Gundam.
Reminds me of why people bring up Char's origin story in gundam origin. I don't get why Zeta colored everyone's perceptions of char to be some high leveled moral upstanding person.

>>15029474
You are the one who is bringing up The Origin.
Are you implying that his characterization there and in Zeta are in any way consistent?
What is YOUR perception?

I just finished watching this. Felt overwrought at times, but no worse than a typical Gundam plot.

>>15028106
>Tomino just kept repeating the same themes in his works over and over and over and over for fifty years not because he was trying to tell something but because he wanted to sell more toys.

Or maybe he just likes those themes ?

>>15029678
Char always has two conflicting aspects. His personal goals and inclinations vs his father's ideals. The former always frustrates his attempts at living up to the latter,

In 0079 Lalah was the person who could have guided him to become the newtype that lived up to his father's ideals. But his petty hatred of Amuro got in his way and Lalah ended up getting killed because of it.

In Zeta he needed to work with Neo Zeon in order to keep the AEUG in one peice and deal with the Titans. But his personal dislike for the Zabis and Haman caused him to ruin the allegiance and the AEUG fell apart.

In CCA he finally has the means to complete his plan to force people off of earth and live up to his father's ideal by forcing people to evolve into newtypes. But his own personal rivalry with Amuro causes him to leak technology to his enemies, and he loses and his plan goes awry because of it.

Char's characterization is completely consistent through 0079 to CCA.

Origin Char is the one half of Char, the petty schemer on a personal vendetta. It isn't until some point during the one year war that he starts to also identify with his father's ideals and his distinctive clashing motivations come into play.

>>15026745
>0083 2: Federation Boogaloo
all I've ever wanted

In 0079 he fought the feds
In Zeta he fought the feds
In CCA he fought the feds

seems pretty consistent to me desu. the man hates the feds

>im too dumb to understand CCA thread #3819757
Im so bored of this shit, aren't you?

>>15031625
>Or maybe he just likes those themes?
What exactly are you trying to say?
Something like X keeps on writing anti-war books not because he hates war and wants other people to know what it's really like but because he just likes those themes.
Something like Y keeps on writing about the environment not because he cares about it and wants other people to care about it but because he just likes those themes.
Something like Z keeps on writing about feminism not because he wants to alert the general public about human rights but because he just likes those themes.

I guess the only purpose we have in this life is to have fun. And sell toys of course.

>>15032033

People generally like to place certain themes in their art because those themes are meaningful to them.

I was responding to the idea that we can infer that he only cares about selling toys because he uses the same themes in many of his works. And was giving a counter example to the inference with a different reason why someone may repeat their themes, showing that his inference was invalid.

>>15032075
>we can infer that he only cares about selling toys because he uses the same themes in many of his works
I don't think anybody inferred anything like this.

>>15032089

>>15028106

>>Tomino just kept repeating the same themes in his works over and over and over and over for fifty years not because he was trying to tell something but because he wanted to sell more toys.

How about this person?, the one I was responding to.

>>15032140
That's me, actually.
Where do I infer anything of the sort?
I was responding to people who claimed that I shouldn't try to draw any moral principles from fiction because it's just fiction and doesn't reflect reality.
That it's just stupid cartoon for children with simplified black and white morality specifically designed to appeal to as large of an audience as possible by the means of letting them identify with the side of goodness and justice thus making them feel good about themselves and encouraging them to keep on living their complacent consumerist lives as they have until now and to support their illusions of well-being through the purchase of useless toys and has no meaning other than that.
To which I responded that it didn't look to me that way.

It's only liked because it's directed by Tomino.

The film is a fucking mess.

>>15031776
>In Zeta he fought the feds

Not really he allied with the status quo and fucked up really bad by fighting Jamitov's Titans.

>>15032332
What status quo? AEUG fought for independence.

>>15032365
>AEUG fought for independence.


Not sure what show you watched.

>>15032367
Yes, they were formed as a direct resistance to the Titans but those were the moral grounds they stood on, which is why Char didn't have any antagonistic feeling towards them as he did towards the Zabis,Neo Zeon or the Titans.Of course, they were more willing to compromise than he was.

>>15032377
>Anti Earth United Government
>Independence
>Blex a former E.F.S.F General Brigadier

Yeah sure thing there Timmy.

>>15032380
I agree. The term independence is probably incorrect. Should I say human rights?
Surely the Zabis and Neo Zeon also wanted independence.
Maybe I mistook independence for freedom?

>>15032394
Expanded rights would be the best term most likely. Blex believed he could reform the Earth Federation and get rid of the fat cats through "legal means", and make it satisfying for everybody.

Meanwhile Jamitov saw the Earth Federation as corrupt to the core run by bureaucrats who cared more about their personal wealth and greed rather than deal with pollution and the decaying state of the Earth hence he wants to establish a dictatorship so he can take total control and restore earths atmosphere.

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Mech design was on point for the movie. Will we ever see such great designs again?

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>>15032489

I doubt that, after Unicorn we will most likely get a bunch of shit like this

>>15032498

what is this hot garbage? I can't even tell the outline of the suit

>>15032524

Feels like one those things maybe one would have found cool, when they were ten years old but as time passes on it's just embarrassing.

I truly thought we had moved past designs such as these but nope.

>>15031625
What you are giving here is your superficial and distorted perception of the plot, not characterization.

In MSG Char is portrayed as private,not very emotionally expressive and aloof. He speaks little, considers his circumstances carefully, expresses himself thoughtfully and politely, bears himself with reserve and dignity. He is tolerant and benevolent but has strong feelings and opinions, which can make him seem arrogant and hard-nosed or make him react emotionally. His overly pragmatical way of thinking can make him seem cruel and insensitive. The impression is of a no-nonsense person that is strict, sharp, decisive and independent.
This characterization is consistent through all series though the individual traits displayed and their intensity may depend on the context.

The Char in the Origin speaks and acts off the top of his head, behaves and emotes in inappropriate ways, often rants loudly and incoherently, cackles, makes weird facial expressions, has no sense of tact, has no sense of personal space, most of the time looks on the verge of a violent outburst. The impression is of a hot air balloon.
How is he even a remotely similar person?

Char is a secondary character of little screen time. His whole shtick is being enigmatic - we are given very little information about his circumstances or motivations. It's difficult to figure out what makes him tick - his actions can seem to make no logical sense.
In the Origin you can see how actions that were the result of emotional turmoil were exaggerated into a consistently impulsive behavior, while his assertiveness that stems from his cold pragmatism is transformed into the macho bravado of a jock. Many people that chose to interpret his character in some way similar to this one are willing to distort their perception of later series to make it fit their initial impression. I've been there too.

>>15032866

The turmoil in Char in Origins is probably because of the hindsight of whole UC series showing us that he isn't as perfectly cool as his first apperance in 0079 let on.

In origin he was also a teenager, meaning he was physically incapable of containing cool.

I wouldn't say the Origin Char is a bad character or behaving inconsistently with what we've learned in the original UC. He's just a bit more flawed than the guy in 079.

>>15032531
ooh just like Exias

>>15032902
The turmoil of fans after watching CCA is probably because of the hindsight on the whole UC series showing them that Char isn't as perfectly cool as their imagination made them want to believe.
A lot of people that thought Char was cool in MSG are of the sort that interpret his behavior as the result of some sort of no-fucks-given edgy attitude. These same people also find his portrayal in the Origin cool. It's pretty obvious that even Yas himself jizzez all over him. For that sort people Char is the sort of character in which they can channel their self-indulgent power fantasies.
If later entries of UC or even MSG itself broke that illusion of power they would be disturbed of course.
>In origin he was also a teenager
I'm pretty sure he's the same age he is in the series. Though now that you mention it my description does sound strikingly similar to the average Tomino teenager.
>I wouldn't say the Origin Char is a bad character
Neither would I. He is entertaining enough.
>or behaving inconsistently with what we've learned in the original UC
Did you not read my post?
>He's just a bit more flawed than the guy in 079.
If you consider insanity a flaw. I'd hardly call it a multifaceted portrayal of a believable human being.

>>15026165
I have 2 main issues with CCA

First is that it feels like "part two" of a story, and there is no part one. And no, I don't give a fuck about the novel.

Second is the very ending, which took the newtype concept way too far and was generally pretty unsatisfying.

Other than that I think it's pretty decent.

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It is kino.

>>15033064
>>I'm pretty sure he's the same age he is in the series

Origin jumps around quite a bit before getting to One Year War proper, just fyi. Remember he's still at the academy as of one of the later Origin episodes.

>>15033426
I'm not even talking about the flashbacks. With the exception of those the Origin covers the same timeframe as the series. He acts like Tarzan during the entire run, not just in those chapters.

>>15033064

I don't see why you say the Origin Char is some sort of "cool...no-fucks-given edgy attitude" when he's clearly showing the opposite in in the actual OVA.
>scares his teacher because he radiating "teenage shootout"
>loses his shit and starts punching up some spy
>incapable of seeing his sister's perspective and/or consoling her

That's not a "cool" guy. That's a fucking loser.

>>15033438
Right, I forgot the manga basically re-tells the original series. I'm just going by the show. Haven't read the manga yet.

>>15033438

He does that in the original anime too. Remember how he keeps infiltrating shit and blowing it up? And how officers freak out and go "Char is coming...Char is coming!!"

>>15033441
Plus, recall what he says about Lalah in CCA, and how he reacts to the news of the death of his mother. The cracks are definitely there.

>>15033455
Oh no,he's doing his job! Call the police. Does he ever do any of the following:
>speak and act off the top of his head,
>behave and emote in inappropriate ways,
>often rant loudly and incoherently
>cackle
>make weird facial expressions,
>have no sense of tact
>have no sense of personal space
>most of the time look on the verge of a violent outburst.

>>15033441
Maybe you personally think it is not cool and I agree but it IS a no-fucks-given edgy attitude.
And as I said many repressed people would want to self insert in this sort of character to as a way to relieve their frustrations and destructive impulses and think this sort of behavior is "cool". Not that I'm trying to sound all high and mighty. I'm saying this because I can also understand what is the appeal of a character like that.

>>15033459
I'm not following you. What cracks? What does Lalah, or Char's mom or the fact that Yas demonstrates he doesn't understand a shit about the running themes of the series have to do with whether Char is "cool" or not.

>>15033489

>many repressed people would want to self insert in this sort of character to as a way to relieve their frustrations and destructive impulses and think this sort of behavior is "cool"

Perhaps, if they are idiots who can't tell what "cool" is. Any reasonable adult can tell that the Origin Char is a pretty flawed person.

Honestly it feels like you are grossly exaggerating and misrepresenting the Origin Char for the sake of having an argument.

>>15033501
The fact that Char is not cool. He has fucking mother issues. He wanted Lalah as a mother figure and resented Amuro for taking her from him, and in Origin after his mother died is when he started to act out in the crazy, conniving, calculated ways he did. He's fucking kooky as fuck, hiding it all under a veneer of too-cool-for-school.

>>15026495
The way it turned out is actually pretty engaging.

Char's psychopathic desire to kill off the entire Zabi family in 0079 is a huge tip-off to what kind of person he really is, but most people forget this when he becomes a 'good guy' in Zeta.

The truth was that although he fought alongside Kamille and Emily and such, it was ultimately a stint in his larger plan to evacuate the earth. When his speech at Dakar fails to really have an effect, and when neo-Zeon beats the AEUG into submission, Char becomes mentally broken and resentful of the movement that failed as a vehichle towards his goals. He's like Adolf coming out of the Vienna period, and the craziest ideas are starting to solidify his mind. He evidently spends the few years of ZZ laying the foundations for CCA, but the important point is that he's already desperate anf unstable. Unlike others, his desperation and rash insanity comes out slowly, and with careful planning, a la murder of the Zabis.

So while his double asteroid smashes in CCA come as a surpirse, I actually see it as an interesting but sensible extension of his character.

>>15033540
>So while his double asteroid smashes in CCA come as a surpirse,

I found it a surprise, mostly because the movie dove right into it. Felt like a bit more set up was needed, but ultimately everything was easy enough to grasp.

>>15033536
>he wanted Lalah as a mother figure
No.
>he has fucking mommy issues
Like absolutely every fucking Tomino character EVER!
>and in Origin after his mother died is when he started to act out in the crazy, conniving, calculated ways he did
Yeah, except that's not how it works. You are not a normal person one day and then BANG! your mom dies and you are a fucking crazy sociopath that shovels people to death in the backyard.

>>15033561
>No.

He outright states it, man.

>>15033522
>Perhaps, if they are idiots who can't tell what "cool" is. Any reasonable adult can tell that the Origin Char is a pretty flawed person.
I already told you what kind of persons I think they are.
>Honestly it feels like you are grossly exaggerating and misrepresenting the Origin Char for the sake of having an argument.
If you mean the self insert part, yes, that's how I see it but still I guess he still has a valid interpretation as a character on his own. This interpretation however would be very different from the one that can be derived from the TV series.

>>15033566
No. Not really.

>>15033540
>psychopathic desire to kill off the entire Zabi family
Wow, wow, easy there with the big words.

>>15031625
>petty
You keep on repeating that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.
>his father's ideals
Why do you bring up this to such extent. Do you believe he has no convictions of his own.

I've come to realize anyone who makes these kinds of threads don't actually want any discussion nor do they have any argument to back up their criticism.

This is just a shitpost general.

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>>15033578

>>15033646
>cannot into Tominospeak
Not that I'm blaming you.
What do you imagine a mother figure is? What according to you would an adult man want with a mother figure? How would an adult man see a young attractive woman as a mother figure?
What part of the relationship between Char and Lalah looked to you like a relationship between a son and a mother. What part of Char's attitude toward Lalah appeared to you to be that of a son towards his mother?

>>15033692
Mother's love represent a perfect love that overlooks all faults. It's pretty clear what Char wanted was to be loved unconditionally

>>15033589
None of those are big words. Are you ESL by any chance?

>>15033723
Pretty sure anon was being facetious.

>>15033736
I'm talking about anon desire to use buzzwords he doesn't understand the meaning of.
How is Char's hatred of the Zabi family in any way "psychopathic"?

>>15033692
Because Lalah had superior Newtype abilities and was going to guide him to live up to his father's ideals. They talk about it in 0079.

>>15033614

Petty= small. Politics have a grand scope, personal vendettas have a small scope. Focusing on personal vendettas rather than political goals is petty for that reason.

And no, Char certainly had a degree of conviction in those ideals, but those ideals are the ideals set forward by his father's ideology, which he adopted.

>>15033956
Where?

>>15033961
What makes you think his "personal vendetta" has "small" scope and is unrelated to politics. Wanting to be a dictator is grand because it has to do with politics, while fighting against a dictator to defend your moral principles is petty because it's not directly related to politics (according to you)?
I didn't ask if Char has a degree of conviction in his father's ideals. I asked if you think that Char has no convictions of his own.

>>15033715
Why do you think that the love of a mother and a lover is different? You can't just break your relationship with your son or daughter even if they treated you like dirt because you've invested years in them. Even if you got distanced from them they would still be your son or daughter though to thought would only bring you pain. In the same way if you were married for years to someone and had their children even if in the end you grow to hate each other they would still be your mate and the father/mother of your children though you'd only feel bitterness about it. It's called a familial bond. Building a secure bond with another human being our most basic psychological need.
No body would want to marry someone that treated them badly, but no mother would want a child that treats her badly. On the other hand you wouldn't want to spend your entire life having to tiptoe around someone so they wouldn't leave you. The most important thing about building a healthy, secure bond is mutual trust. While there is no such thing as unconditional love if you are willing to accept this as a definition for it we could reach an agreement.
If you've only had bad experience with other people you might find it hard to trust them and build stable relationships with them. Then you'd constantly feel scared and insecure and you would become lonely and depressed. I see nothing pathological in wanting to feel happy and normal and I see nothing uncool or shameful in a man wanting to have a family

>>15034035
>Why do you think that the love of a mother and a lover is different?
dude wtf

>>15033973

Throughout the last arc/encounters in space.
Char starts talking about his father's ideals around the time when Lalah becomes a character. And Lalah mentions that he only hangs around her because she is a Newtype, etc.

>>15033987

>while fighting against a dictator to defend your moral principles is petty because it's not directly related to politics (according to you)?.

No, choosing to be a dictator to achieve socio-political goals in grand, Leaking your enemy technology because you have a personal score to settle with one of their pilots is petty. Because the latter is about satisfying a personal emotion, as opposed to a greater cause/principle that goes beyond the self.

Fighting a dictator only because you have personal beef with him, and not necessarily what he is doing, would be petty. Amuro is not petty though, his conflict with Chat was first and foremost about wanting to save people from Char's plan and his rejection of Char's short sighted radicalism ( which is what they discuss in Axis).

> I asked if you think that Char has no convictions of his own.

And I responded that yes he did have convictions of his own, but the ideas that he was committed to were the ones that came from his father's ideology. There is no contradiction in that.

>>15034045
neurochemisty

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>>15034045
not him, but read the whole post

>>15033836
Sounds like you don't understand the meaning of these words.

>psychopathic
>(informal)
>abnormal and obsessive; manic.

Isn't rising the ranks of an army only to trainwreck the cause and murder an entire family 'abnormal', 'excessive', and 'manic'?

And if you're going to sperg out and talk about technical definitions of psychopathy (ah, the true sign of an ESL; failure to understand informal usage), check this out:

>Psychopathy (/saJˈkɒpəθi/), sometimes used synonymously with sociopathy (/soʊsiˈɒpəθi/), is traditionally defined as a personality disorder[1] characterized by persistent antisocial behavior, lack of empathy and remorse, and bold, disinhibited, egotistical traits.

Char has antisocial behavior, a clear lack of empathy, and egotism. Sure we're never going to get a doctor in here to tell us that our fictional character is a verifiable crazy, but I'm more than justified in using the phrase.

You honestly come off as a juvenile who's eager to shitpick and wade into arguments that he can't handle.

>>15026165

I hate it, but I'm glad it exists because it saved ZZ from being packed full of Char and Amuro bs. Also Gyunei a cute.

>>15034077
>Lalah had superior Newtype abilities and was going to guide him to live up to his father's ideals.
Nowhere either in the series or in the movie is such thing implied.

>>15034077
>short-sighted radicalism
When you say that do you mean that you think he focused on making changes that weren't essential and would have had no long term significance or are you criticizing extremism as inherently incapable of producing anything of use?
I assume that it is the latter since Amuro's rant seems to be to that effect though I've seen people on this board argue the former.I don't think I have the competence to comment on politics but the notion that the Federation has outlived it's usefulness as an institutions sounds intuitively correct to me. If this is the part you disagree with I'd like to hear more.
As for extremism, while most people will agree that it is unnecessary and inhuman I cannot immediately agree that it has no effect or is the result of lack of foresight. It seems to me that historically revolutions have been able if not to achieve their original goals at least to effect a change in the political climate and people's attitudes at least adequately if not more so than peaceful methods. Is evidence to the contrary? Even then the question remains if they are a sign of short-sightedness.
Foresight means comprehending the current situation and seeing how it can develop i.e. sifting through all available data, separating the relevant from the irrelevant and seeing how it fits together. Ideally at any time we would have all necessary information to draw the correct conclusions. Unfortunately human capabilities are limited within space and time. Revolutions arise at times when people are on the edge of their coping resources. A community that fears it's basic rights have been infringed will not wait to remove whatever prevents it from effectively securing its survival. In this sense as long as the leaders of these movements were able to correctly identify the threat and take action against it they cannot be said to lack foresight as they acted in a way appropriate within the context of their circumstances.

>>15034077
>And I responded that yes he did have convictions of his own, but the ideas that he was committed to were the ones that came from his father's ideology.
Which were his own convictions and which ones did he owe completely to his father's philosophy?

>>15033501
>or the fact that Yas demonstrates he doesn't understand a shit about the running themes
> running themes
Where!? All I see is colorful giant robots hitting each other with glowy death sticks while characters spout incomprehensible writer dialouge that attempts to be "deep" when in reality it's still just about as much so as your average JRPG. Not aa big fan of Origin's flashback arc or some of the constant Tominospeak either but I can't blame Yas or Tomino for that. They're Japanese, and It's like Japanese people are almost destined to be pretty shitty writers that try to eat more shit then they could actually chew and swallow.

>>15038624
>Where!?
I'll help you see.Here:
>>15033646
>>15034035

>>15034077
> but the ideas that he was committed to were the ones that came from his father's ideology
Char was never a "believer" in Deikunism.
Zeon was a philosopher before all. He was fascinated with the very concept of progress and the onset of a new era. Char ,as a liberal, admired his father as a just and honest man and a good politician and respected his ideals. Nevertheless his worldview bore only a passing resemblance to Zeon's. He was a much more aggressive person than his father and from the beginning to the end he was interested in issues of power - liberty, social injustice, the distribution of wealth and responsibilities, civilian rights and duties. Char accepted the economical premises of his father's theory as the simple political reality they were but he didn't adopt his ideals, he appropriated them into his own philosophy.
If Zeon was a "visionary", Char was someone who saw this "vision" as a tool to shape the world according to his own understanding of how it should be.
Yet, a lot of people seem to think he only felt compelled to follow his father's political path out of filial duty and that it went against his natural inclinations?

>>15033956
>because Lalah had superior Newtype abilities and was going to guide him to live up to his father's ideals.
By "guiding him to live up to his father's ideals" do you mean "was going to teach him to be a super awesome Newtype and gain some super awesome spiritual revelation"? Why would a pragmatic man like Char have such wild irrational notions?
Newtypes were never a central proposition in his philosophy. He didn't know much about Newtypes at the time he met Lalah and meeting her didn't change his views in any way.He only contemplated new possibilities.He intellectually approved and supported the idea of Newtypes as one that promoted progress and challenged people's pre-existing attitudes and he grew to see Newtype abilities as the antithesis of humanity's ignorance that he perceived was the cause of social injustice.
He never saw himself as a Newtype and he never felt personally invested in their cause. He was initially skeptical about them and even to the end his personal feelings can be described as ambiguous at best or, more honestly, as those of distrust and hostility. Wouldn't it make sense to assume that his personal relationships defined his attitude towards Newtypes rather than the other way round.

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Quess

>>15026710
>hose that hate this film hate it because somehow it doesn't feel right between Zeta and ZZ as if the UC wasn't full of idiotic retconnings induced by power hungry toy companies.

Or they hate it because the pacing was a complete clusterfuck with a slow first half and Sonic speed second half.

>>15032489
>Sazabi and nu
>Not Nightingale and Hi-nu
Shit taste detected.

>>15043843
He said "great" designs.

>>15032524
>>15032531
The Phenex actually looks decent in motion. I saw the videos it appears in at Gundam Front and it looks far better there than on the MG box.
>tfw it goes destroy mode when fighting the Rebawoo

>>15043851
What's not to like. The suits are both basically just upgrades to the ones from the movie and look better in every way. The Hi-nu's color scheme and funnel design are better than the original, while the Nightingale is just the Sazabi with more parts and longer horns.

>>15043871
>The suits are both basically just upgrades to the ones from the movie and look better in every way. The Hi-nu's color scheme and funnel design are better than the original,
Someone call Guiness, we have a mew world record for incorrect statements.

>>15043889
>Liking something is somehow factually incorrect
Wew, lad.

>>15043871
>more is better

>>15026165
Ofcourse no one likes it as a movie, but it had good animation, finished the story and it had the Nu Gundam in it so most people enjoyed themselves.

It's a complete mess and Tomino can't direct shit at all.

>>15026165
It was a good conclusion.
>inb4 conclusion
I have no idea why they bothered with introducing new character though.

>>15026165
No one did

>>15044899
>I have no idea why they bothered with introducing new character though.

Felt like the movie was the tail end of a series that was never made.