All this time, guess everybody had it all wrong... >If y

I'm not clicking your link.

>>14979297

Here.

>If you know anything about the original Gundam, you likely know about the rivalry between series protagonist Amuro Ray and series villain Char Aznable. But if you watch Gundam the Origin and Gundam Unicorn in tandem, there is a another possibility for Char’s prominent rival–and perhaps a more thematically meaningful one.

>This past year has seen a lot of Gundam anime, but most interesting has been the relationship between the OVA series Mobile Suit Gundam: The Origin and TV series MOBILE SUIT GUNDAM UNICORN RE:0096–the beginning of Char’s story and the end of it respectively.

>[Note: This article contains spoilers for Mobile Suit Gundam: The Origin and MOBILE SUIT GUNDAM UNICORN RE:0096.]

>As seen in Origin, the character Gundam fans most commonly referred to as “Char” is actually the assumed name of Casval Rem Deikun. His father is the Chairman of the Republic of Zeon (an alliance of space colonies seeking independence from Earth) who is assassinated and usurped by Degwin Sodo Zabi: his father’s friend and right hand man. Little more than a political prisoner, the young Casval escapes to Earth with his sister to live in anonymity while his mother remains behind, eventually dying in captivity.

>Char’s entire motivation in the original Gundam is to get revenge on the Zabi family for the death of his father and mother as well as the pain they caused his sister. Using his assumed identity, Char spends years getting close to the Zabi family–even befriending some of them–before killing them off one by one.

>But in the end, as he loses his taste for revenge, he chooses to leave one Zabi alive, the infant Mineva.

>>14979309

>What he doesn’t realize is that he has left the baby in a situation mirroring his own. Mineva, like Char, is considered the sole remaining heir to Zeon’s royal family by many–with people eager to try and use her for political ends. Moreover, her father was killed (indirectly) by his supposed friend (Char), which led to her mother dying heartbroken only a short time later.

>Their origin stories are eerily similar, yet, Mineva grows into a young woman that is the polar opposite of Char. While Char first seeks revenge for his father and later strives to bring about the world of his father’s ideals, Mineva doesn’t seek revenge and attempts to do everything in her power to prevent the sins of her family from coming to pass again.

>Before his death, Char’s father propagated the idea that those who lived in space would become more evolved than those on Earth–a “new type” of humanity for the new frontier. The theory also stated that Newtypes were more capable of understanding each other. While likely a political tool more than anything else–a way to create a sense of nationalism among the entirety of space-born humanity–it nonetheless proved to true.

>Char himself is a Newtype with various telepathic and precognitive powers, as is Mineva. Yet, time and again, it is Char who seeks to control people–persuade or force them to move to space and evolve–while Mineva is the one who strives to understand them.

>Poetically, it is Mineva in the end, not Char’s rival Amuro Ray, who causes Char’s final defeat. The child he spared–the mirror of himself that he created–is the one who finally sets his soul to rest. She, a Newtype promoting understanding and hope, best exemplifies the dream of Char’s father and gives mankind’s younger generation a chance for a lasting peace among the stars.

>>14979309
You know Char is dead though

>>14979315
Fuck shouldve waited

>>14979309
>>14979313
shit nigga you expect me to read all that

>>14979290
This article was actually linked in ANN.
Most of ANN reviews are shit. The only guy I respect there is Mike Toole, he's old school and knows what he's talking about. Everyone else is a bunch of retards who think that anime should cater to their preferences.

>>14979313
So I take it this person knows nothing of Late UC, given that they're referencing the shitty Re:0096 instead of the OVA.

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>>14979290

>>14979290
The only person who seems to misunderstand is the author of this article.
The Zabis wanted dictatorship. Zeon wanted humanity to evolve to it's full potential. Char fought for freedom and wanted people to listen to him and care about the future.
The Zabis didn't "spare" Casval and Artesia. They had to run and hide.
Char cared about Mineva and believed that children like her were the future. He is the person that would have been most happy to see her grow into a free, independant woman.
She is by no means a counterpoint to Char's existence. In fact she is the one who criticised Full Frontal for misunderstanding his ideals.

>>14980051
>In fact she is the one who criticised Full Frontal for misunderstanding his ideals.
Didn't she also call him out by saying that Char was an idealist who fought for Zeon's cause, and Full Frontal was perverting and corrupting that ideal?

Kind of ironic that the guy she was idealizing was fueled entirely by petty revenge by CCA, and the one she was saying "couldn't be Char" actually had Char's soul and his memories, but without his lust for revenge against Amuro and as a result was a more pure idealist version of Char than the original Char could ever be.

>>14980543
Unicorn is just Char and zeekwank

>>14980914
Yes. And?
I never said it was good. OP used it as an argument and so did I.

>>14980543
>fueled entirely on petty revenge
Good job on misunderstanding 100 episodes worth of material. How does it feel to waste 50 hours of your life?
Char was a human being. He fought for what he bevieved in and for the freedom to express his personal feelings.
Full Frontal was a shell of a human being. He was a nihilist that had no reason to fight.
Compare Char's "People will keep on repeating the same mistakes" rant, that is personal and emotional, to Full Frontal's "This is the end of the world rant" that is empty and meaningless waste of air.
I remember Mineva saying Full Frontal didn't have Char's passion.
It's probably ironic that the writers of Unicorn understood so well the flaws in their own writing.

>>14980543
>entirely
Yea revealing your true Identity as the son of the most famous philosopher in thousands of years, definitely no mental pressure there anon. He also knew Zeon could never win. Char did exactly what I would do imo. Except id probably try to evacuate Earth a bit before trying to reset mammalian evolution

>>14981595
>Compare Char's "People will keep on repeating the same mistakes" rant, that is personal and emotional
Uhm, Full Frontal also makes that point.

Full Frontal is just jaded Char, they are the same goddamn person.

>>14981692
I'm not talking about what points they make. Try to read the context.

>>14981700
Your context is fucking wrong.

Full Frontal is jaded fucking Char, they are the same goddamn person who's tired of shit repeating again and again, that's a huge point in Unicorn, and much more well-done than CCA.

That's not a "flaw" of the writing, that's the writer's fucking strength.

>>14981703
I'm not really sure what the writers were going for with Full Frontal's character. Considering that it was always stressed how he was a just a "hollow vessel" and that Mineva criticizes him about not really understanding Char then it would make sense that the cause of his nihilism is the realization of his own inner emptiness and lack of purpose. In this is the case he could stand on his own as a character and the concept behind him would not actually be that bad. Yet again if that is what they were going for, it was not aptly explored like many other things in Unicorn.
But if you insist that Full Frontal is "just" a jaded Char then that would make the very concept of his existence bad just like many other things in Unicorn.

Char is a jaded Char. Full Frontal doesn't have any of the emotions that were driving him.

See, it's a matter of presentation.
The generic setup in this sort of stories is something like:
Misguided bad baddie: Look, protagonist-kun, The world sucks because of the following and following rational reasons. Rationally speaking it would be best to destroy it.
Super-duper awesome Jesus-Buddha protagonist-kun: NO!!!LOVE AND UNDERSTANDING!!!BELIEVE!!!
Misguided bad baddie:Oh no! Love and understanding have defeated me!

Unicorn follows that mold.

CCA is more like:
Depressed and emotionally disturbed person: EVERYTHING SUCKS BECAUSE MY LIFE SUCKS!
Neurotic and paranoid person: STOP SHOUTING! YOU ARE NOT MAKING ANY SENSE!
Depressed and emotionally disturbed person:
SHUT UP!
Neurotic and paranoid person: NO U!
Depressed and emotionally disturbed person:
NO U!

The difference is subtle but it's there,

>>14979804
>the shitty Re:0096 instead of the OVA.
They're exactly the same you dolt

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>>14981809
>NO!!!LOVE AND UNDERSTANDING!!!BELIEVE!!!
Amuro's point was exactly the same as that though.
Banagher literally followed the same reasoning Amuro did, which is that people should choose their own fate and that you should believe in them

>I'm not talking about what points they make. Try to read the context.

>>14981809
I don't know if you are paying attention or not, but the point of Full Frontal is a clone who is possessed by Char's soul to finish what he could not have done in CCA, but in a more reasonable way instead of dropping the rock on Earth. Mineva criticizes him because he acts more like a calculating machine than Char, but this is reasonable coming AFTER CCA.

>Char is a jaded Char. Full Frontal doesn't have any of the emotions that were driving him.
He had the same damn emotions, the very soul of Char possesses him.

CCA was Char's way of forcing humanity to go space by going the extreme way possible, and Amuro stops him by literally pulling the Deus Ex Machina.

Unicorn was Char going extremely jaded after seeing that despite the Deus Ex Machina, the Earth refuses to change, the EF is still corrupt as ever and Zeonism will die out, leaving humanity weighted down by gravity forever, and Banagher convinces him to give the world another chance because hopefully the newer generation is better than the old.

I don't know how you cannot get this, it's spelled out for you.

>>14981825
Hey, faggot, try to rewatch both shows and understand the context a little better.

>>14979309
>As seen in Origin, the character Gundam fans most commonly referred to as “Char” is actually the assumed name of Casval Rem Deikun
>most commonly referred to as “Char”
>is actually the assumed name of Casval Rem Deikun
That shitty Linux meme has transcended into reality.

>>14981838
>Unicorn was Char going extremely jaded after seeing that despite the Deus Ex Machina, the Earth refuses to change, the EF is still corrupt as ever and Zeonism will die out, leaving humanity weighted down by gravity forever, and Banagher convinces him to give the world another chance because hopefully the newer generation is better than the old.
...it was three fucking years. The US doesn't even go through a full presidential term in that time, what the fuck was he expecting to change for humanity in general?

It wasn't all that much time between Z/ZZ and CCA, either. Char's just a particularly impatient manchild.

>>14982033
Something at all.

Nothing changes.

And things are going to remain the same for a long long time, even without Zeon.

>>14982038
Something changed, alright; the Feds established ECOAS in a more preemptive attitude towards genocidal spacenoid rebellions, like the one that just tried to start a nuclear winter. Thanks, Char!

>>14979290
Char is mad cute

>>14982048
So nothing changes at all.

The EF is keep gonna doing that waltz again and again.

>>14982061
And what the fuck was Char expecting, when he was repeating the same steps of Zeon in 0079, 0083, and 0088? What was that line in Farcry 3 about insanity again?

>>14982071
>Spacenoids repeatedly gassing fellow Spacenoids and dropping colonies on the Earth isn't making Earthnoids rushing up to space to embrace their fellow enlightened humans
>Obviously the problem is they didn't drop something big enough! Someone fetch me Axis

>>14982071
Char was expecting humans to leave Earth, kinda like the beginning of Turn A where colonies become massive spaceships and just fucking leave.

He expects a full Axis drop is gonna destroy the EF and forces the earthnoids to leave and the colonies to start having their own government.

>>14982104
So Char's problem is:
>I don't like you living there
>But it's Zeta-era and I'm chill like that, you'll move to somewhere I approve of sooner or later
>It's been 7 years and you still like living there? Fuck you I'm burning your house down
>Something miraculously stopped me from making you homeless and moving in with the crazy people next door? Surely this wonderful event will make you move anyway-- WHY ARE YOU STILL LIVING THERE REEEEEEEE

>>14982114
Yes, Char is mad about souls being weighted down by gravity.

This isn't new.

Coincidentally, deep space exploration really kicks off after the EF kicks the buckets.

>>14982118
>Yes, Char is mad about souls being weighted down by gravity.
>equating 'I like living where my ancestors are from and where everything isn't trying to kill me if even one thing goes wrong' to 'YOUR SOUL IS WEIGHED DOWN BY GRAVITY'
So Char is retarded on top of being an impatient murderous asshole, gotcha.

>>14982124
This is why I sympathize more with Gihren/Glemy Toto, Earth is not the problem, the problem is the EF.

>>14982126
Except fuckers like Gihren ARE the problem you idiot. Their existence is what perpetuates the EF, because when the alternative is a bunch of genocidal madmen, then people will tend to stick with the status quo, no matter how corrupt it is.

>>14982199
>>14982126
Admit it you guys are just trying to summon Black_Knight.

>>14982202
who?

>>14982124
>equating 'I like living where my ancestors are from even though I'm contributing to the overpopulation and pollution of Earth and the exhaustion of it's natural resources that rightfully belong to the whole human race thus encouraging the corrupt policies of power hungry officials that only care about getting more money' to 'YOUR SOUL IS WEIGHED DOWN BY GRAVITY'
The bastard.

>>14981692
>Full Frontal is just jaded Char, they are the same goddamn person.
How exactly do you manage to be more jaded than believing that the only way to fix everything is to kill every human being living on Earth?

>>14982803
>peolle should all moved to the space colonies so they'll be overpopulated anf overpolluted instead
>even though I rallied the citizens of Sweetwater by telling them their space colony is overpopulated and overpolluted
????????

>>14982909
>Can build plenty of colonies compared to the amount of people alive at the time and amount of resources in space.
>Can never build another Earth.
>Still doesn't get it.

>>14982897
When you realize after that witnessing a miracle, the people does not change and just go back to where they were.

>>14982199
Except Gihren is anti-establishment, and his victory will destroy the EF.

>>14982803
Nice memes.
>overpopulation
Current Earth isn't even overpopulated, just poorly managed and distributed. UC Earth has even fewer people (since most of humanity moved to the colonies before Zeon gassed them) with at least slightly more sane management and better tech.

>pollution
Most of UC's pollution is caused by fucking psychotic Spacenoids raining giant colonies and rocks on the planet. Given that this is the point of widespread fusion tech I don't see widespread hydrocarbon burning for power even being a reality anymore.

>exhaustion of it's natural resources
UC's been doing large-scale asteroid relocation mining, which by even modern standards would mean we'd never have to dig anything out of the ground ever again.

>thus encouraging the corrupt policies of power hungry officials that only care about getting more money
Literally everything will encourage that, because the power-hungry will gravitate to where the power is and corrupt it as much as possible, regardless of any particular policies set in place.

Maybe you're the one weighed down by gravity, since you can't seem to pull your head out of your ass long enough to take a look at either the setting or RL.

>>14984250
>Most of UC's pollution is caused by fucking psychotic Spacenoids raining giant colonies and rocks on the planet. Given that this is the point of widespread fusion tech I don't see widespread hydrocarbon burning for power even being a reality anymore.
That's not true, is it?

Australia is actually environmentally fine because it's a crater now.

>>14984250
>with at least slightly more sane management
Are you suggesting the cartoon EF is actually saner than real life?

>>14984250
>just poorly managed and distributed
and who is responsible for that
>most of UC's pollution is caused by fucking psychotic Spacenoids raining giant colonies and rocks on the planet
Nice memes.
>they'd never have to dig anything out of the ground ever again
Good, then they should stop doing it.
See, it's nice to have preservation policies but someone has to enforce them effectively too.
I think it has been established many time that EF is anything but effective.
It's not just about saying this new awesome technology will solve all our problems forever.
In any case preservation is not that simple as saying simply "We just need to solve this problem or that problem."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetary_boundaries
>regardless of any particular policies
What? No. Are you saying "There is no use for anti-corruption policies because they won't make bad people disappear". What sort of logic is this? Corruption doesn't need encouragement at all. That's why we need those policies and most importantly we need to keep them.
If corruption exists it's not because of the "bad people". It's because the "good people" were too lazy to give a damn about what's going on around them. Most people have their hands full with just their day to day life. Trying to make your living and raise your children is hard enough so it's easy to forget to pay attention to the problems of the world around you thinking "Somebody else should be responsible about that". That sort of thing is understandable but is it really OK?

>>14984360
>and who is responsible for that
...over 200 countries, and a bewildering array of cultural, ethnic, religious, and even linguistic differences.

Protip: If you're trying to be smug and blame the Feds for shit, perhaps it would be better to not quote an RL example.

Given the above I'm left to assume you only look at posts long enough to skim them for buzzworfs and don't bother to actually read them, so this conversation is over.

>>14984397
*buzzwords
Christ, that anon's stupidity was so bad it was contagious enough to affect spelling.

>>14984397
Under the Gundam's EF, pollution becomes even more serious and even LESS people want to live on Earth.

>>14984397
What exactly are we arguing about?
Are you trying to defend the Federation? I'm not blaming them for anything. You can't blame an institution for something. I'm blaming human nature which is exactly:
>over 200 countries, and a bewildering array of cultural, ethnic, religious, and even linguistic differences
But saying "It's just too complicated so I can't do it properly" is not an excuse for bad government as understandable as it is.
If your opinion is that EF's government was adequate then I'm pretty sure that this was not the premise of the show.
Fortunately its creators are still alive so you can write a letter of complaint to them or something.

>>14981838
>>Char is a jaded Char. Full Frontal doesn't have any of the emotions that were driving him.
>He had the same damn emotions, the very soul of Char possesses him.

It literally doesn't until the end of the 7th OVA during FF's meeting with the old dude on his transforming battleship. They even go out of their way to point out that FF is a husk until later when he's somehow filled.

>>14982114
>>Something miraculously stopped me from making you homeless and moving in with the crazy people next door? Surely this wonderful event will make you move anyway-- WHY ARE YOU STILL LIVING THERE REEEEEEEE
Char never agreed with Amuro or saw humanity in a different light during their death. Char even goes out of his way to point out that the same humanity capable of magical warmth and comfort can drop several rocks on the Earth and kill countless other humans. He's bitter to the end.

>>14986599
The point is Full Frontal gradually gains Char's soul and becomes the same person due to it, just way more jaded.

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>>14988516

>>14987477
It doesn't happen gradually, he goes from empty to full in the last episode as far as Mineva and Vist are concerned.

>>14987477
The point is that he couldn't possibly be more jaded than as jaded as can be.
Whether that was the intended effect or not the fact of the matter is that Char and FF have nothing in common as characters.
I don't know what made FF so jaded other than the lack of anything to be jaded about but it was definitely not the same thing that made Char jaded.

>>14979290
Read the "why IBO is good" article, it made me fucking cringe

>>14989170
No, Char wasn't as fucking jaded as Full Frontal, because Char didn't actually get past CCA.
>>14988926
No, he has getting the soul ever since talking with Zimmerman in the Neo Zeong dock.

>>14989517
>because Char didn't actually get past CCA.
You lost me.

>>14990264
He's not in Unicorn is he?

>>14990345
How does the second part of the sentence serve in any way as an argument for the first part of the sentence?
Excuse me for my poor reasoning skills.

>>14990402
He can't be jaded if he no longer exists (in a corporeal form)