So why can't this bitch just hold her horse until Gihren

>>14911215
The war is lost already and no superweapon can fix it.
Gihren have failed in the spring/summer of 0079, when the war went into stalemate

>>14911224
The Solar ray, anon.

The solar ray.

>>14911215
>The solar ray.
Nah. It was a misused weapon without any profits from it

>>14911231
It killed half of the EF forces.

Half of it, I don't even know if Tomino understands the implication.

>>14911233
>It killed half of the EF forces.
It didn't. It has killed the Degwin Zabi's Guard fleet and General Revill's personal fleet.
The majority of EFSF is fine and it took over A Bao A Qu

>>14911243
The Solar ray was fired two times, and it absolutely killed everyone on the battlefield in the 2nd time, except Char's squad and the White Base.

>>14911245
>The Solar ray was fired two times
No.
http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Universal_Century_Weapons
> Although intended for use against the Federation this weapon was only used once against Degwin Sodo Zabi while his fleet and General Revil's fleet were meeting to negotiate a peace. The premature firing of the Solar Ray Cannon by Gihren Zabi caused the Colony Laser to burn out, which contributed to the Principality of Zeon's loss during the Battle of A Baoa Qu by depriving Gihren and Kycilla Zabi the ability to strike at the Federation from a distance.

>>14911245
>I didn't watch 0079, the post.

>>14911248
>In Mobile Suit Gundam: Awakening, Escalation, Confrontation, the Colony Laser was fully completed and tested before the Battle of A Baoa Qu. Using the cannon, A Baoa Qu and virtually everyone on the battlefield were killed in a single shot, the only ones surviving were Char Aznable's squad and the defecting crew of the Pegasus II.
It's da novel.

>>14911250

Perhaps he's thinking of the Solar System and the Solar Ray?

>>14911256
I'm talking about the novel version, the animated show's Solar Ray is incomplete.

Why didnt the EF deploy Solar System by the battle of ABQ?

>>14911311
Not completed?

>>14911311
IIRC, the Solar System was loaded on the ships in Revil's fleet vaporized by the Solar Ray.

>>14911215
Did Origin change something else yet again? Cause she didn't cap Gihren until after Zeon had lost the Solar Ray and was basically losing the war as it was, right? So that conquest of his ain't happening any more to begin with.

>>14911349
Her capping Gihren is a big fucking problem.

Gihren was the unifying part of Zeon, if they successfully retreated to Axis with Gihren, an entirely new scenario opens.

>>14911351
Given Neo Zeon's 2 wars and the billion fucking remnants popping up every sidestory, it's not like Gihren's continued existence would have made them any more aggressive.

And to be fair, Kycilia was probably at least thinking she could hold Zeon together herself, before her surprise run-in with a bazooka.

On that note, even if Gihren survived the end of the war I don't see him not getting capped regardless as long as Char's still around.

>>14911387
The problem with the remnants is that they are very disorganized and prone to infighting. They need a leader to make uniformed decision and to rally upon.

This is why the only time when they have a collective leadership, Char, they almost completed the objective.

>On that note, even if Gihren survived the end of the war I don't see him not getting capped regardless as long as Char's still around.
That's assuming Gihren doesn't cap Char first, well, it can go.

>>14911392
If there's a force that dangerous and unifying at Axis, that's also going to make the Feds stand united against them that much hard, I think.

Imagine if the Titans didn't have that whole civil war with the AEUG to distract them, for example. Hell, would they need to go around gassing civilians or what have you when there's an actual hardcore Zeon resurgence to prep for, especially one that probably spends less time dicking around in the boonies at Axis?

>>14911400
*that much harder

>>14911400
The same for the colonies.

If the titans end up being much more zealous because they fear Zeon, it's going to create much more anti-EF sentiments.

>>14911392
>>On that note, even if Gihren survived the end of the war I don't see him not getting capped regardless as long as Char's still around.
>That's assuming Gihren doesn't cap Char first, well, it can go.
Didn't Origin Gihren outright win Char himself over?

>>14911243
Had the Solar Ray fired down the original point it was aiming at, it would have destroyed the central part of the Federation Fleet, including the White Base. However due to Degwin meeting with Revil, the Solar Ray's course was changed to target down the Gel Dorva pathline, which only had roughly 20-25% of the Federations navy in it. The other central issue was that the Delaz Fleet has chosen to fall back after Gihren died, leaving a majority of N field open to attack, and much of the Fleet's from Granda were still awaiting orders from Kycillia, who was already long dead by the time the message that the war had ended started to come in.

>>14911565
Char was just rusing him.

>>14911882
>Char was just rusing him.
Eh, I don't know, Gihren did win over the Deikun loyalist, and was supposedly the most like Casval dad...

>>14911752
Once again, fucking bad writing saves the EF!

>>14911752
>>14911897
EFSF even divided by two would be powerful enough to continue fighting.
>>14911896
Nah, there's not so much common things between Gihren and Zeon Deikun

>>14911896
Hahaha, no. Char is obviously sucking up to Gihren so he'll get access to the Zeong so he can fight the Gundam. He's just using the same faux sincerity that he used on Garma and Kycillia. As if to cement the point, the end of that scene has Char give a 'Just As Planned!' smirk.

>>14911948
There's just so much possibility, losing half your force is a critical blow before the battle even begins and I don't know if the EF can continue to push on or retreat.

>>14911955
There was a comparison pic with the different amount of weapons deployed in A Bao A Qu battle. And Zeon is outnumbered.

>>14911948
>Nah, there's not so much common things between Gihren and Zeon Deikun
You sure?
I thought the whole point of Origin playing up Deikun's crazy was to make Degwin seem more reasonable.

>>14911952
>Hahaha, no. Char is obviously sucking up to Gihren so he'll get access to the Zeong so he can fight the Gundam. He's just using the same faux sincerity that he used on Garma and Kycillia. As if to cement the point, the end of that scene has Char give a 'Just As Planned!' smirk.
Alright, makes more sense Char would focus on "muh VENGEANCE" instead of his Dad's philosophy.

>>14911971
Yes, but losing half your force ain't something to laugh and go on, brah.

Not even the Soviet are that suicidal.

>>14911981
>le soviet meatwave
When will this meme die?

>>14911988
It will end when the casualties the Soviet sustained in WW2 stop being a thing.

>>14911988
Hopefully at the same time the 'Zeon didn't win, therefore it's bad writing!' meme.

>>14912000
That is no meme.

Zeon, Neo Zeon have left so many good chances to go wasted.

>>14912000
I hope so. But you can't deny that CCA ending and the entire Unicorn story are bad.
>>14911996
This meme would live as long as there would be a need to paint soviets and russians as subhumans, probably.

>>14912010
How is the entire Unicorn story is bad?

>This meme would live as long as there would be a need to paint soviets and russians as subhumans, probably.
So forever?

>>14912010
>This meme would live as long as there would be a need to paint soviets and russians as subhumans, probably.
I don't hate the russians (hate the Soviet though), but there's no denying they used human wave tactics at part and even effectively.

Before WW2 too, look at the Winter War, you have finnish soldiers getting PTSD for seeing Soviet soldiers appearing after killing so many of them.

File: Deep operation blitzkrieg difference.png (83KB, 1283x1134px) Image search: [Google]

83KB, 1283x1134px

>>14912020
Until the countries of the world won't merge into one.
>How is the entire Unicorn story is bad?
A boy (who is SUDDENLY the son of one of the main monopolists of the current world AND a newtype) saves a girl, who is SUDDENLY a Zabi heir with some sort of political weight (even though she has no money, no business circles and no personal army to support her). There is enough coinsedencies already.
Then he gets a special snowflake mobile suit and meets THE MAN WHO IS ALTERED TO BE THE CLONE OF A DEAD LEADER BEING POSESSED WITH THE SPITIT OF A DEAD LEADER.

>>14912035
I've been talking not about human wave, but about a "meat wave". That's a little different thing. While human wave is a usual kind of tactics, meat wave is the WWII myth about ruthlessness of soviet commanders to their own people, and that's kind of incorrect.
>Winter War, you have finnish soldiers getting PTSD for seeing Soviet soldiers appearing after killing so many of them.
Really? Any soldier can get a PSTD from many different factors. Constant artillery shots and bombings, bullets flying, squadmates literally torn apart etc etc etc.
>I don't hate the russians (hate the Soviet though),
I wonder where're you from.

>>14912156
>I've been talking not about human wave, but about a "meat wave". That's a little different thing. While human wave is a usual kind of tactics, meat wave is the WWII myth about ruthlessness of soviet commanders to their own people, and that's kind of incorrect.
Yeah, no, Soviet commanders are fucking brutal when it comes to forcing troops to charge.
>Really? Any soldier can get a PSTD from many different factors. Constant artillery shots and bombings, bullets flying, squadmates literally torn apart etc etc etc.
No, they get PTSD from killing the same soviet troopers over and over again.
>I wonder where're you from.
Vietnam, the communists are awful.

>>14912156
>A boy (who is SUDDENLY the son of one of the main monopolists of the current world AND a newtype) saves a girl, who is SUDDENLY a Zabi heir with some sort of political weight (even though she has no money, no business circles and no personal army to support her). There is enough coinsedencies already.
>Then he gets a special snowflake mobile suit and meets THE MAN WHO IS ALTERED TO BE THE CLONE OF A DEAD LEADER BEING POSESSED WITH THE SPITIT OF A DEAD LEADER.
None of these are actually coincidences.

>(even though she has no money, no business circles and no personal army to support her)
Very stupidly wrong.

>>14912170
>Soviet commanders are fucking brutal when it comes to forcing troops to charge.
Where did you heard that?
>No, they get PTSD from killing the same soviet troopers over and over again.
That sounds pretty strange, you know. Since there's no records about germans, americans, soviets, south koreans having PTSD after killing the huge amounts of allies, japanese and chinese soldiers respectively.
>Vietnam
That's unexpected.
>>14912174
>None of these are actually coincidences.
When so many things are meeting at one place at the same time - that's kinda cheesy. A rich kid with Amuro Ray-tier powers who also manages to get a royal GF in about one week.
>Very stupidly wrong.
She's a child who has neither the education nor the money of her own, she has no means of production in her posession too. That's why she can't be a self-sufficient political figure.
She has no army of her supporters. The majority of The Sleevs are viewing Full Frontal as their leader, not her. Zabi supporters do not exist since the fall of Haman's NZ.

>>14912230
>Where did you heard that?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_No._270
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_No._227

>That sounds pretty strange, you know. Since there's no records about germans, americans, soviets, south koreans having PTSD after killing the huge amounts of allies, japanese and chinese soldiers respectively.
It doesn't sound strange at all, considering the Soviet uses the same formation and keep appearing out of the same way they come from.

>>14912230
>When so many things are meeting at one place at the same time - that's kinda cheesy. A rich kid with Amuro Ray-tier powers who also manages to get a royal GF in about one week.
It's not really cheesy when it's not a coincident, the Vist foundation plans that shit.
>She's a child who has neither the education nor the money of her own, she has no means of production in her posession too.
Means of production, what the fuck, are you a communist?

And no, she's a Zabi, that means everyone in Zeon at least pay her respect.
>She has no army of her supporters. The majority of The Sleevs are viewing Full Frontal as their leader, not her.
Marida and her captain's loyalty are on her.

>>14911979
>Degwin seem more reasonable.
That's not really new; Degwin was always the more reasonable of the Zabis. It's his kids that are the real psychopaths.

>>14912307
>That's not really new; Degwin was always the more reasonable of the Zabis. It's his kids that are the real psychopaths.
Yeah, but it helps explain why he might have actually had Zeon killed; Dude was a nutter like Gihren who was going to get everyone killed attempting to establish Spaceinoid superiority...

>>14912247
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_No._270
Oh, no, big bad Stalin doesn't allow his people to surrender or defect, what a cold-hearted bastard.
> "There are no Soviet prisoners of war, only traitors."
This phrase was "invented" by the editors of "Zarya" paper, published by Vlasov's collaborators. №77, year 1944
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_No._227
Oh no, nobody can retreat without an order.
And the guilty soldiers should stay in prison doing nothing instead of helping to defend their country as the penal troops soldiers.
The barrier troops were stationed at the military and refugee roads railways and other transportation ways as the patrols, ambushes and roadblocks, to prevent the people, who have retreated without an order, from leaving their place - that's an Order №00941 of NKVD USSR, 1941, July 19.

They're not those back-shooters from first CoD or Enemy at the Gates.

>>14912254
>Marida and her captain's loyalty are on her.
That's not an army.
>she's a Zabi, that means everyone in Zeon at least pay her respect.
No. If you have seen ZZ, the people of Side 3 weren't very fond of becoming the part of new Zabi Zeon led by Mineva and Haman. Many people remember the horrors of OYW. And don't forget that the public media of Federation also have influence.
>Means of production, what the fuck, are you a communist?
Even if, so what? She doesn't own a share in a company, she has no company of her own - she doesn't have any income sources to pull a selfsufficient political campaign,
Zeon Deikun had support of some space businessmen (as far as I've heard of, Degwin Zabi was a sort of a businessman too, and Shin Matsunaga's father also was engaged in business relations with Degwin). Cosmo Babylonia was created by the millionaires.
And Mineva has nothing but her looks, Zimmerman's loyalty and hearts of Banagher and Riddhe.

>>14912254
>Means of production, what the fuck, are you a communist?

FACTORIES! WHO MENTIONED FACTORIES! WHAT A COMMUNIST!

Seriously though Unicorn sucks ass for numerous reasons, some personal favourites:
-We are going to block trade with the earth, that way they will have to negotiate with us, this will also be peaceful and not involve dropping things on the Earth.

WTF NO YOU HAVE TO BELIEVE IN HUMAN POSSIBILITY!

-We have finally done it we found the secret if Lapalce's box!

>Wow, uh hey if newtypes maybe, then um put them the government, i know this sounds dumb but don't democracy or anything just government their asses, also yeah this guy named Zeon will have a really similar idea in 70sh years, just ignore him.

- Now we have finally achieved peace! all the world will listen to us and newtypes will be accepted and we will all live happily ever after!

>F91 less than thirty years later, V gundam twenty years after that.